11 Jul 99 - 01:53 PM (#94134) Subject: Martin Carthy's 'Dominion of the Sword' query From: Ed Pellow I've been trying to work out the lyrics to 'Dominion of the Sword' from Martin Carthy's 'Right of Passage' album. I think that I've got most of them but am still baffled in a couple of places. Can anyone help? DOMINION OF THE SWORD Lay by your pleading, law[?] lies a-bleeding Burn all your studies down, and throw away your reading Small by the word as[??], and can afford us Not half as much privilege as the sword does It'll the foster the master, plaster disaster This'll make a servant quickly greater than the master Ventures, enters, seeks and it centres Ever the upper hand, never a dissenter Kruger, Krugerand-a, wither do you wander? Gone to the subording of Hastings Banda Kruger, Krugerand-a, tear you all asunder ????????????????????????????????? Talks of small things, it sets up all things This'll master money, the money masters all things It is not season to talk of reason Never call it loyal when the sword says treason Calm for the worrier, the whaler, the furrier This'll get the measure of a Rainbow Warrior Incognito, come and sink a Rainbow President will never know, where's your bloody cocoa [???] Subtle deceiver, turns calm to fever See the pilgrim feign the unbeliever It'll make a lay man, preach and to pray man It'll make a Lord of him that was but a drayman Conquers the crown too, pray for the gown [?] too Set you up a province, but it'll pull it down too No gospel can guide it, no law decide it In church or state, 'til the sword sanctifies it Take books, rent 'em, who can invent 'em? When that the sword says there'll be no argumentum Blood that is spilt sir, has gained all the guilt, sir Thus have you seen me run my sword up to the hilt, sir Thanks for any help Ed ed.pellow@virgin.net |
11 Jul 99 - 04:32 PM (#94162) Subject: RE: Martin Carthy's 'Dominion of the Sword' query From: The original of 1659 is reprinted in Roxburghe Ballads, VIII, p. clxxxi*. See ZN1612 in the Broadside ballad index at www.erols.com/olsonw, the tune being B274 in the broadside ballad tunes there. |
11 Jul 99 - 05:20 PM (#94171) Subject: RE: Martin Carthy's 'Dominion of the Sword' query From: Entitled "The Power of the Sword" it's also in 'Rump Songs', I, p. 333, 1662 (reprinted c 1874). |
11 Jul 99 - 06:23 PM (#94184) Subject: RE: Martin Carthy's 'Dominion of the Sword' query From: Susanne (skw) I've strained my ears, but four run-throughs wouldn't come up with more than the following. Hoping for more improvements ... Lay by your pleading, law[?] lies a-bleeding [that's what I hear, too]
It'll the foster the master, plaster disaster
Kruger, Krugerand-a, wither do you wander? [Kruger-rander? from the coin?]
Talks of small things, it sets up all things
Calm for the worrier, the whaler, the furrier [warrior]
Subtle deceiver, turns calm to fever
Conquers the crown too, pray for the gown [?] too [that's what I hear, too]
Take books, rent 'em, who can invent 'em?
These are the sleevenotes, but I'm afraid they don't help me for one very much. Maybe someone else has come across that anthology? [1988:] A long time ago I came across this song in a Penguin anthology of War Poetry, and the longer I have known it the better it's got. It was written in 1649 by an anonymous pamphleteer and with the removal of verses or lines particular to that time becomes a rejection of the propaganda lie currently being touted for all it's worth (again) that violence or the threat of it will get you nowhere. The tune is adapted from a Breton pipe tune called Ar Ch'akouz (The Leper). (Notes Martin Carthy, 'Right of Passage') |
12 Jul 99 - 09:02 AM (#94363) Subject: RE: Martin Carthy's 'Dominion of the Sword' query From: AndyG I'll have to listen to the CD tonight to get a more definite idea but I'm sure the line: "President will never know, where's your bloody cocoa" should be "President will never know, I should bloody ko-ko!"
I should ko-ko is an english idiom meaning, very roughly, Not if I can help it
AndyG |
13 Jul 99 - 06:42 PM (#94881) Subject: Lyr Add: DOMINION OF THE SWORD (from Martin Carthy From: Ed Pellow Thanks to everyone who replied either here or sent an email. I'm fairly certain that I now have the correct version. Would I need to send this separately to be included in the next release of the DT database, or do the compilers read all this stuff? Anyway, for anyone interested, here it is: DOMINION OF THE SWORD
Lay by your pleading, law lies a-bleeding
It'll the foster the master, plaster disaster
Kruger, Krugerrand-a, wither do you wander?
Talks of small things, it sets up all things
Calm for the worrier, the whaler, the furrier
Subtle deceiver, turns calm to fever
Conquers the crown too, grave and the gown too
Take books, rent 'em, who can invent 'em? Thanks again to all who helped
Ed |
18 May 02 - 01:55 AM (#712740) Subject: RE: Martin Carthy's 'Dominion of the Sword' query From: GUEST This should be 'seagulled' for the database |
18 May 02 - 04:30 AM (#712784) Subject: RE: Martin Carthy's 'Dominion of the Sword' query From: Paul Mitchell The "president will never know, I should bloody ko-ko" is, I think, taken as a reference to the French govt. sinking of the Rainbow Worrior. Now... just to push this a little... How do you play the damn thing? Are there other recordinghs somewhere, other than Carthy's scary "G Tuning". Any help gratefull received. |
19 May 02 - 03:17 AM (#713296) Subject: RE: Martin Carthy's 'Dominion of the Sword' query From: michaelr Krugerrands? Rainbow Warrior? This song is from 1649??? |
19 May 02 - 10:31 AM (#713420) Subject: Lyr Add: THE DOMINION OF THE SWORD (1686 version) From: Malcolm Douglas Martin updated the original song, of course; a version of that original can be seen in the e-text version of Charles MacKay's Cavalier Songs and Ballads of England from 1642 to 1684 (1863): The Dominion Of The Sword. I quote it below: ^^ THE DOMINION OF THE SWORD |
19 May 02 - 11:34 AM (#713448) Subject: RE: Martin Carthy's 'Dominion of the Sword' query From: GUEST Many thanks for your scholarship, Malcolm. Very interesting and much appreciated. |
01 Oct 04 - 10:41 AM (#1286048) Subject: Lyr Add: DOMINION OF THE SWORD (Martin Carthy) From: GUEST,www.geocities.com/carthy_online Garry Gillard's brilliant Carthy/Watersons site (https://mainlynorfolk.info/watersons) has the following transcript. Apart from the line "Beira to Luanda, Gabarone to Nyanga" - for which I'll take Garry's word as I've never been able to figure it out even after listening to two studio and numerous live versions - this transcript looks pretty much perfect to me. Lay by your pleading, law lies a-bleeding Burn all your studies down, and throw away your reading Small power the word has, and can afford us Not half so much privilege as the sword does It'll the foster the master, plaster disaster This'll make a servant quickly greater than the master Ventures, enters, seeks and it centres Ever the upper hand, never a dissenter Kruger, Krugerrand-a, whither do you wander? Gone to the suborning of Hastings Banda Kruger, Krugerrand-a, tear you all asunder Beira to Luanda, Gabarone to Nyanga Talks of small things, it sets up all things This'll master money, though money masters all things It is not season to talk of reason Never call it loyal when the sword says treason Calm for the worrier, the whaler, the furrier This'll get the measure of a Rainbow Warrior Incognito, come and sink a Rainbow President will never know, I should bloody coco Subtle deceiver, turns calm to fever See the pilgrim flay the unbeliever It'll make a lay man, preach and to pray man It'll make a Lord of him that was but a drayman Conquers the crown too, grave and the gown too Set you up a province, but it'll pull it down too No gospel can guide it, no law decide it In church or state, 'til the sword sanctified it Take books, rent 'em, who can invent 'em? When that the sword says there'll be no argumentum Blood that is spilt sir, has gained all the guilt, sir Thus have you seen me run my sword up to the hilt sir |
04 Oct 04 - 10:54 PM (#1288774) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Martin Carthy's 'Dominion of the Sword' From: Jim Dixon Beira = town in Mozambique Luanda = town and province in Angola Gaborone = town in Botswana Nyanga = province in Gabon; also Zimbabwe ... but why he chose those particular places, I haven't a clue. |
05 Oct 04 - 06:53 AM (#1289020) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Martin Carthy's 'Dominion of the Sword' From: Chris Green I assume it's to do with the white mercenaries fighting in Africa during the 60's and effecting "regime change", as it's now called, for the highest bidder. |
22 Apr 05 - 11:58 AM (#1468051) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Martin Carthy's 'Dominion of the Sword' From: GUEST,Emily Forster Just wanted to say I'm hugely relieved to find the words to this - I've been trying to work out some of the minor details for ages and didn't think to look on the net! |
30 Aug 05 - 09:53 AM (#1552744) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dominion of the Sword (Martin Carthy) From: GUEST What a relief to find other Carthy-heads! I 've been trying to work this one out for bloody ages!! |
30 Aug 05 - 07:12 PM (#1553085) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dominion of the Sword (Martin Carthy) From: Susanne (skw) Guest, try this: Martin Carthy. It'll keep you busy for a long time ... |
29 Mar 07 - 08:13 AM (#2010502) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dominion of the Sword (Martin Carthy) From: GUEST,dan mat I should bloody cocoa and see the pilgrim flay the unbeliever... Does this help??? |
29 Mar 07 - 08:14 AM (#2010503) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dominion of the Sword (Martin Carthy) From: GUEST,danmat Oh yeah , and... floor lies a-bleeding (ie dripping in blood)??? |
31 Mar 07 - 05:01 PM (#2012847) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dominion of the Sword (Martin Carthy) From: Susanne (skw) Guest, I'd still vote for 'law' (as a victim of the war). 'Floor' doesn't make much sense to me, even with your ingenious explanation. Thank you all the same for your input. |
22 May 07 - 06:20 AM (#2058248) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dominion of the Sword (Martin Carthy) From: CharlieA Hi there, Does anyone have the chords for this? Thanks Cxxx |
26 Apr 09 - 10:44 AM (#2618984) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dominion of the Sword (Martin Carthy) From: GUEST Thanks for the interest. Just thought I'd add that the first word in the first line in verse five is 'Balm' and not 'Calm'. Didn't realise that my diction was so rubbish back then. Hope it's better now..... Martin C |
27 Apr 09 - 10:45 AM (#2619594) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dominion of the Sword (Martin Carthy) From: The Sandman Martin Carthy,Iwould say generally speaking your diction is very good.Dick Miles |
29 Apr 09 - 06:28 PM (#2621514) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dominion of the Sword (Martin Carthy) From: Susanne (skw) Thanks for the correction, Martin! It's probably got much less to do with your diction than with both the medium used and the listener's linguistic ability. |
29 Apr 09 - 09:41 PM (#2621615) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dominion of the Sword (Martin Carthy) From: irishenglish God I love Mudcat at moments like this-Martin Carthy himself! As Wayne and Garth used to say, We're not worthy! |
06 Jul 09 - 07:17 AM (#2672634) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dominion of the Sword (Martin Carthy) From: GUEST,Kev Boyd Call me cynical (and you wouldn't be the first), but I somehow don't think that 26 April GUEST post was actually from Mr Carthy. |
10 Mar 12 - 03:24 PM (#3321021) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dominion of the Sword (Martin Carthy) From: GUEST,Woof "Conquers the Crown too, grave and the gown too" doesn't really work -- the sword/might of arms doesn't exactly conquer death itself, and 'grave' for 'gravitas' is too ambiguous. 'Grave and the gowned' to cover academia etc is nearer working but too forced. It works a lot better the way I've always heard it: "Conquers the Crown too, craven the gown too," which is terse enough to go with the style and sets up the power of the court vs scholars/academia. |
11 Mar 12 - 07:45 PM (#3321487) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dominion of the Sword (Martin Carthy) From: Kev Boyd Except, Woof, that Malcolm has already quoted the original text from which Martin adapted his version here and the "grave and the gown too" bit is there intact in the seventh verse. |
05 May 19 - 01:40 AM (#3990790) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dominion of the Sword (Martin Carthy) From: GUEST,Gerry James Fagan has added a verse, which you'll find on the Melrose Quartet CD, Dominion. The Melrose Quartet is James, Nancy Kerr, and Jess and Richard Arrowsmith. The new verse comes between verses five and six of the Martin Carthy version. It goes like this (copying from the liner notes): Build a drone, fly it, governments will buy it Devils in the desert sand give us a chance to try it Don't need their ident, propaganda strident Blow them up remotely with a Hellfire or a Trident. The 17th century original, posted by Malcolm Douglas way upthread, has several references that I would like to understand. I'll repost a few stanzas here [with my ignorance in brackets]: Far from the gulpit Of Saxby's pulpit, This brought an Hebrew ironmonger To the pulpit. [Who was Saxby? Who was the Hebrew ironmonger? What historical event is this about?] Such pitiful things be More happy than kings be; They get the upper hand of Thimblebee And Slingsbee. [Who were Thimblebee and Slingsbee? What's all this about, then?] Down goes your law-tricks, Far from the matricks, Sprung up holy Hewson's power, And pull'd down St Patrick's. [matricks? Hewson? I suppose St Patrick's is the cathedral] This sword it prevails, too, So highly in Wales, too, Shenkin ap Powel swears "Cots-splutterer nails, too." [The last two lines, anyone know what they mean?] It batter'd their Gunkirk, And so it did their Spainkirk, That he is fled, and swears the devil Is in Dunkirk. [What's Gunkirk? What's Spainkirk? What happened there, and what's it got to do with the devil and/or Dunkirk?] I'd appreciate any enlightenment. Thanks. |
08 May 20 - 10:13 AM (#4051222) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dominion of the Sword (Martin Carthy) From: Mo the caller Interesting thread. I'd got nowhere Googling for the words of Love Lies Bleeding but the reference to Roxburghe Ballads helped me find this I've been spending some of my Covid isolated lockdown trying to improve my treble recorder sight-reading by working through Playford's dance tunes. One has a title (in my Barlow edition) Dour's (Dove's) catastrophe or Lawyers leave your Pleading or Love lies a Bleeding. The link above mentions in the last verse Noah's Dove. So Dour's Catastrophe is the loss of peace caused by the Civil War. |
15 Oct 23 - 04:36 PM (#4183741) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dominion of the Sword (Martin Carthy) From: GUEST,Andy Alexis I hope this solves the 21 year old question of what "President will never know, I should bloody coco": I believe it is Presi-dumb will never know, Washoe bloody Koko. Washoe and Koko were a chimpanzee and a great ape that were taught to talk with sign language in the 1980s. The Rainbow Warrior was sunk by the French version of the CIA; the head of that service got caught and service a minimal sentence. The President meant is probably the President of France at the time, but it would clearly apply to Ronald Reagan as well. https://www.unusualverse.com/2019/02/wahoe-koko-sign-language-primates.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_the_Rainbow_Warrior |
15 Oct 23 - 04:36 PM (#4187051) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dominion of the Sword (Martin Carthy) From: GUEST,Andy Alexis I hope this solves the 21 year old question of what "President will never know, I should bloody coco": I believe it is Presi-dumb will never know, Washoe bloody Koko. Washoe and Koko were a chimpanzee and a great ape that were taught to talk with sign language in the 1980s. The Rainbow Warrior was sunk by the French version of the CIA; the head of that service got caught and service a minimal sentence. The President meant is probably the President of France at the time, but it would clearly apply to Ronald Reagan as well. https://www.unusualverse.com/2019/02/wahoe-koko-sign-language-primates.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_the_Rainbow_Warrior |
15 Oct 23 - 04:40 PM (#4187052) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dominion of the Sword (Martin Carthy) From: GUEST,Andy Alexis One change I plan to use in the first verse: Lay by your pleading, law lies a-bleeding Burn all up all books, and banish any reading Small power the word has, and can afford us Not half so much privilege as the sword does |
15 Oct 23 - 04:40 PM (#4183742) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dominion of the Sword (Martin Carthy) From: GUEST,Andy Alexis One change I plan to use in the first verse: Lay by your pleading, law lies a-bleeding Burn all up all books, and banish any reading Small power the word has, and can afford us Not half so much privilege as the sword does |
16 Oct 23 - 02:18 AM (#4183760) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dominion of the Sword (Martin Carthy) From: DaveRo "I should coco" is, or was, a common British phrase. I guess a modern equivalent would be "I should think so - not!" I always assumed it was Cockney rhyming slang. I should coco |
16 Oct 23 - 02:18 AM (#4187053) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dominion of the Sword (Martin Carthy) From: DaveRo "I should coco" is, or was, a common British phrase. I guess a modern equivalent would be "I should think so - not!" I always assumed it was Cockney rhyming slang. I should coco |