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11 Jul 09 - 08:09 AM (#2677359) Subject: The Sick Truth behind 'SICKO' From: Lizzie Cornish 1 The Corporate Health B*stards had a full agenda to ensure that Michael Moore's film 'Sicko' didn't realise its full potential. Below you can see one of the Health Industry's own people telling Bill Moyers exactly what happened: The Truth about the campaign to discredit Michael Moore - Youtube |
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11 Jul 09 - 08:11 AM (#2677361) Subject: RE: The Sick Truth behind 'SICKO' From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Oh..whatsits! I forgot the BS bit...again! Could a kindly Elf please lower this to Below Stairs. Thanks. :0) |
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11 Jul 09 - 10:24 AM (#2677421) Subject: RE: BS: The Sick Truth behind 'SICKO' From: Maryrrf It's sickening, all right. Even now, with the Obama administration determined to reform our broken system, they are still throwing up obstacles. We'll get some changes, and possibly some improvements, but it will be cobbled together fixes, and not a revamping like we need. Thanks for posting this. |
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11 Jul 09 - 12:27 PM (#2677517) Subject: RE: BS: The Sick Truth behind 'SICKO' From: Mrrzy Woof. The insurance industry is the elephant in the living room, sitting on your kids. |
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11 Jul 09 - 02:10 PM (#2677631) Subject: RE: BS: The Sick Truth behind 'SICKO' From: GUEST, Richard Bridge elsewhere How many US politicians are prepared to recognise that truth? I only know of one - Denis Kucinich. |
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11 Jul 09 - 02:21 PM (#2677640) Subject: RE: BS: The Sick Truth behind 'SICKO' From: Little Hawk Yes, and that was why he was the one presidential candidate I could fully endorse in the past election. It's simply astonishing and outrageous what a snow job private industry has done to control the government and manipulate public opinion in the USA over the national health issue. |
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11 Jul 09 - 02:27 PM (#2677650) Subject: RE: BS: The Sick Truth behind 'SICKO' From: Peace Drug markups. |
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11 Jul 09 - 02:31 PM (#2677653) Subject: RE: BS: The Sick Truth behind 'SICKO' From: jacqui.c Kendall got an email from a friend the other day stating that anyone over 59 in the UK is denied treatment for heart complaints and that that will be the result of any health care reforms here in the USA. Looks like the insurance and drug companies are really getting desperate if they have to resort to such barefaced lies. |
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11 Jul 09 - 03:12 PM (#2677676) Subject: RE: BS: The Sick Truth behind 'SICKO' From: McGrath of Harlow Those kinds of people don't even need to be desperate to resort to barefaced lies. |
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11 Jul 09 - 03:34 PM (#2677684) Subject: RE: BS: The Sick Truth behind 'SICKO' From: gnu Well... the drug companies invest a lot in R&D and therefore should reap the benefits of thier expenditures, no? No. We can do whatever they can do and we can do it without getting rich at the expense of those who cannot afford to make them rich while suffering. The arguement seems to be that humans are only driven to "do" by profit, and that if there is no financial reward to develope a "cure", there will be no cure. That is pretty fucked up. If they are gonna use that arguement to deny people FREE health care, it's a good thing they are rich.... for them. |
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11 Jul 09 - 03:59 PM (#2677700) Subject: RE: BS: The Sick Truth behind 'SICKO' From: Riginslinger "We'll get some changes, and possibly some improvements, but it will be cobbled together fixes, and not a revamping like we need..." Yes, that seems to be where we're heading. I expect it will end up something like the tax code. |
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11 Jul 09 - 04:08 PM (#2677705) Subject: RE: BS: The Sick Truth behind 'SICKO' From: Little Hawk They'll no doubt make it damnably complicated so most people can't understand it. That always helps when you want to keep the public unaware of what a lousy deal they're getting. |
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11 Jul 09 - 04:49 PM (#2677733) Subject: RE: BS: The Sick Truth behind 'SICKO' From: Sorcha Local marquee sign..... DON'T STEAL...THE GOVERNMENT HATES COMPETITION. Seems to go for drug companies too. |
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11 Jul 09 - 05:06 PM (#2677751) Subject: RE: BS: The Sick Truth behind 'SICKO' From: Little Hawk The worst thieves of all are probably those in private industry...at the highest levels. They have only ONE motivation: to increase their profits to the maximum possible. That encourages theft on a truly grand scale. |
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11 Jul 09 - 05:40 PM (#2677772) Subject: RE: BS: The Sick Truth behind 'SICKO' From: Richard Bridge It's called "capitalism" LH - but I think you knew that. |
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11 Jul 09 - 06:02 PM (#2677782) Subject: RE: BS: The Sick Truth behind 'SICKO' From: pdq Let's "put a face" on one of those "big bad pharmaceutical companies"... Best US Companies To Work For - Top 100Eli Lilly Rank: 52 (2005 rank: 73) Get quote: LLY Headquarters: Indianapolis, IN Industry: Pharmaceuticals Large Companies Rank: 13 2004 Revenue ($ millions): 13,858 U.S. Sites: 8 Website: http://www.lilly.com What makes it so great? The venerable drugmaker helps its employees stay healthy with free Pap smears, mammograms, and colonoscopies. An onsite clinic with physicians, psychologists, and nurses handles 50,000 visits a year. {PS: Eli Lily employs over 40,000 people world-wide} |
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11 Jul 09 - 06:06 PM (#2677786) Subject: RE: BS: The Sick Truth behind 'SICKO' From: Peace BUT, that doesn't give them a 'pass' on excessive prices for drugs. They are taking from the many and giving to the few. OK. They're giving SOMEthing back. But they're taking lots more than that from people who cannot afford the medications they require. Do I eat, pay the rent/mortgage or buy my meds? That's a real quandry for lotsa people. |
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11 Jul 09 - 06:33 PM (#2677804) Subject: RE: BS: The Sick Truth behind 'SICKO' From: Ebbie If ELI LILLY is doing all that for their people, they must realize that they are offering 'socialized' medicine, with them standing in for the US government and their employees for the people of the US. So what are they afraid of? |
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11 Jul 09 - 06:34 PM (#2677807) Subject: RE: BS: The Sick Truth behind 'SICKO' From: Lizzie Cornish 1 ALL health care should be free. I don't know why the Americans haven't taken to the streets about it years back. It's appalling. Anyone ever see the film 'The Constant Gardener' with Ralph Fiennes? It tells the disturbing story of the Corporate Health Industry testing a new malaria drug on innocent people in Africa, who had no idea what was going on, and two people who tried to tell the world what was happening, to their own peril... Brilliant film. The Constant Gardener - Trailer And just to tie the two things up, and bring us back to music, even in the BS section, some of the music for that film came from the wonderful Ayub Ogada...You can hear the very beautiful theme here on his page... Ayub Ogada's 'Kothbiro' |
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11 Jul 09 - 06:40 PM (#2677811) Subject: RE: BS: The Sick Truth behind 'SICKO' From: Little Hawk They're offering a smidgen of socialized medicine to a few people to prove what great guys they are...but they abhor the idea of providing universal medical care to the entire population through a government-run program. Why? Well, they're afraid they'd make less money that way, that's why. Nobody is more willing to pay insanely exorbitant prices for drugs and medical help than a public who are deeply in need and completely at your mercy... That's capitalism on a large scale. Squeeze 'em dry for every last drop of blood, and then charge big for the funeral services when they finally die. |
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11 Jul 09 - 07:01 PM (#2677833) Subject: RE: BS: The Sick Truth behind 'SICKO' From: Richard Bridge +1 |
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11 Jul 09 - 07:01 PM (#2677834) Subject: RE: BS: The Sick Truth behind 'SICKO' From: GUEST,Unclefester Who will pay for the doctors, the nurses, the EMT's, the electricity, and so on. The government, right on, oh wait all their money comes from taxes. There for since this country is already broke and getting deeper in the hole every day we can all expect to pay more than our fair share for this FREE healthcare. With millions of jobless guess who gets to pay for their healthcare everybody that has a job, and when big corporations start getting their taxes raised to help foot this bill and their profits drop will they stay here or move to China. Just my point of view. |
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11 Jul 09 - 07:24 PM (#2677850) Subject: RE: BS: The Sick Truth behind 'SICKO' From: Little Hawk That's right, Unclefester, the money to do all that comes from taxes. So do your roads, your schools, your courts, your government, your power grid, your satellites, your environmental protection agencies, your national and state parks and wildlife preserves, your space program, your police, your army, your border management, and various other necessities of any modern society. I happen to regard a public national FREE health plan as a necessity of a modern society....and I don't mind one bit paying part of my Canadian taxes to support it. The one thing the Canadian public will NOT see threatened is our national health coverage, because we aren't stupid. Nor are we ignorant about what a national health plan is and what it costs. Your government, by the way, already spends MORE per capita on your health costs than the Canadian government does on ours! I know that because I looked it up on the Net. And what are you getting for it? Not much. You have one of the worst public health systems in the entire developed world. It's a disgrace. I have a friend here who was experiencing headaches that wouldn't go away. He went to see his doctor and had an examination. No charge. His doctor was worried and sent him for a catscan. No charge. They discovered a malignant brain tumor and sent him at once to a big city hospital in Toronto. No charge. He spent a week in the hospital under observation and they decided to operate. They cut a crescent shaped opening in his left temple and removed the tumor. The operation was successful, and he's feeling fine now...he healed up very quickly. He's following up the operation with radiation and chemotherapy, just in case...since it was Type 4 cancer and it might not be all gone. The entire bill for all of that? No charge. And it took 10 days. Can you guess what that would have cost him in the USA? I am delighted to pay a part of my yearly taxes so that my friend and other people like him can get fast medical help and not be rendered penniless in the process...and so it will be there if I need it too. You have no idea what you're missing in the USA...and it's not even costing you any less than it is me to live with your disgraceful excuse for a modern health system. You've been lied to all your life, man. You just haven't realized it yet, that's all. |
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11 Jul 09 - 07:42 PM (#2677857) Subject: RE: BS: The Sick Truth behind 'SICKO' From: Peace A young man--eight years old--had leukemia from which he died. The medical people at one of the best children's hospital in Canada managed to give him two extra years of life. At that time, the provincial government mad a point of sending a 'bill' to the parents of the boy. The bill read $504,000.00. Amount owing, $76.00. I know that to be true. I saw the bill. The boy was my nephew. I think some people would be aghast at the cost, and having to spend their tax dollars on it, but I ain't one of 'em. I have been a volunteer firefighter for 14 years now. I was an EMR, what Americans would call an EMT Basic. We have fire trucks worth $350,000. They are paid for by tax dollars. If you have a fire department in your city or town, village or hamlet, county or district, you helped pay for those trucks. People who object to their tax dollars being spent are frequently very happy to see us show up in the fancy trucks. When I was acting as an EMR, people were generally happy to see me. As a department in an average year we help save about 6-8 lives. Not much when about 30 people make up the department, but would you want one of those people to be you or a close family member? Would you complain about your tax dollar being wasted? IMO, probably not. |
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11 Jul 09 - 07:57 PM (#2677869) Subject: RE: BS: The Sick Truth behind 'SICKO' From: olddude Close friends of mine have 2 disabled children. Losing their house and everything because the insurance won't pay for their treatment and what they do pay is so little that the family cannot foot the bill. For example every medication an autistic kid takes and needs to take is not covered ... because they consider autism a learning disorder hence will not cover the meds they need to stay focused or prevent grand mall seizures. Etc .. the health system in this country is a disgrace. Our elderly have to decide if they can buy their food or buy their meds ... and yet it goes on and on ... |
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11 Jul 09 - 07:59 PM (#2677870) Subject: RE: BS: The Sick Truth behind 'SICKO' From: olddude Oh they say it is too expensive for health care ... but they give 800 billion to the fuking banks ... makes sense ya right |
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11 Jul 09 - 08:17 PM (#2677889) Subject: RE: BS: The Sick Truth behind 'SICKO' From: pdq That's correct. We have no money for bank bailouts or healthcare...Obama's 800+ billion dollar tab goes directly to the National Debit... House Passes Stimulus Plan With No G.O.P. VotesBy JACKIE CALMES Published: January 28, 2009 WASHINGTON — Without a single Republican vote, President Obama won House approval on Wednesday for an $819 billion economic recovery plan as Congressional Democrats sought to temper their own differences over the enormous package of tax cuts and spending. As a piece of legislation, the two-year package is among the biggest in history, reflecting a broad view in Congress that urgent fiscal help is needed for an economy in crisis, at a time when the Federal Reserve has already cut interest rates almost to zero. But the size and substance of the stimulus package remain in dispute, as House Republicans argued that it tilted heavily toward new spending instead of tax cuts. All but 11 Democrats voted for the plan, and 177 Republicans voted against it. The 244-to-188 vote came a day after Mr. Obama traveled to Capitol Hill to seek Republican backing, if not for the package then on other issues to come. Mr. Obama, in a statement hailing the House passage of the plan, did not take note of the partisan divide but signaled that he expected changes to be made in the Senate that might attract support. "I hope that we can continue to strengthen this plan before it gets to my desk," he said. "But what we can't do is drag our feet or allow the same partisan differences to get in our way. We must move swiftly and boldly to put Americans back to work.." {please remember who gave us this insane bill and vote accordingly in November 2010} {shortened to accomodate "space-use whiners"...see NY Times for whole story...} |
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11 Jul 09 - 08:18 PM (#2677891) Subject: RE: BS: The Sick Truth behind 'SICKO' From: McGrath of Harlow "Who will pay for the doctors, the nurses, the EMT's, the electricity, and so on? " Ordinary people will, obviously. The same way they already pay for it. Except that in a decent system they'd pay for it collectively, and everybody would get what they need, and it wouldn't get creamed off by the middle men and the profiteers. And they get much better value for their money. The British NHS isn't perfect - in recent years it's been undermined by various gimmicks inspired by an ideology that sees the market as the answer to everything, and we've allowed the private drug companies to rip us all off. "Socialised medicine" - if only. But it's still pretty good, and it means that we all get the treatment we need, and that accidents and illnesses aren't turned into financial disasters for our families. "I don't know why the Americans haven't taken to the streets about it years back." I find that hard to understand - but if they ever seriously tried to give us the American system here in Britain we really would take to the streets. |
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11 Jul 09 - 08:46 PM (#2677899) Subject: RE: BS: The Sick Truth behind 'SICKO' From: Peace I think Canadians would torch the Parliament buildings. |
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11 Jul 09 - 10:48 PM (#2677950) Subject: RE: BS: The Sick Truth behind 'SICKO' From: Little Hawk Only people who are grossly ignorant of what a socialized national health system really is are against it. If they are that ignorant, it's because they're being kept that way by rich lobbyists for private industry in the USA...and by the politicians who roll over and play dead for those rich lobbyists. Look...it works this way: EVERYBODY pays into it through their taxes, right? Same as paying for schools or roads or the police force and fire department. Now, since everyone pays, we all only pay a little, because only a few people get really ill at any given time, so many small payments from the entire populace will cover it. That means that if YOU or someone you love gets really ill...you won't be financially devastated by it. It's like car insurance. Everyone pays, but only a few people suffer accidents in any given year...so an accident claim against one driver for $50,000 gets covered by him AND thousands of other drivers who didn't have an accident that year, and everybody pays a small amount...and everybody can cope with that...and they know they're protected if something happens. That's just common sense, because ordinary people cannot afford to pay either a huge auto accident claim or a huge medical bill...and it's asinine to have a system in place which forces them to. If you're for total selfishness, greed, and irresponsibility in your society...and you like seeing ordinary people blindsided by an unexpected illness and ruined...and you're too selfish to care...then I guess you're against a socialized national health care plan like we have in Canada and the UK and Australia and western Europe. And if so...you're living in the Dark Ages when it comes to health care. Not giving a damn about anyone but yourself is nothing to be proud of and it's NOT what the USA was supposed to be founded upon. |
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11 Jul 09 - 11:04 PM (#2677957) Subject: RE: BS: The Sick Truth behind 'SICKO' From: olddude Little hawk you are a man of wisdom, not only in your choice of pets but in your idea about health care. You know what I also like (not) is the big insurance companies, even when people have insurance they wait until the person is very ill, very much in debt to deny legit claims knowing the person doesn't have the money to lawyer up against them. we absolutely need a national health care system. big insurance and drug companies fight against it so that can keep their greed and obscene profit taking at the health of the nation . |
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11 Jul 09 - 11:13 PM (#2677963) Subject: RE: BS: The Sick Truth behind 'SICKO' From: olddude I had to take a 2nd mortgage out on my office to pay for the fookin neck operation and I had what many consider very good insurance. You have to be a lawyer to figure out what they will pay and what they won't. Oh you didn't use one of our docs ... no matter NONE of their docs do that delicate surgery .. well in that case we will pay only 50% of the bill.. OH you need that med .. well we don't cover that one but we can pay for this other (that cause chrons problems so I can't take it) ... read the fine print ... what shit |
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11 Jul 09 - 11:23 PM (#2677970) Subject: RE: BS: The Sick Truth behind 'SICKO' From: Little Hawk Private medical insurance industry and the drug companies play a simple game: "Heads we win, tails you lose." That's because they only care about the money. |
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11 Jul 09 - 11:28 PM (#2677972) Subject: RE: BS: The Sick Truth behind 'SICKO' From: Peace "Health care spending accounted for 10.9 percent of the GDP in Switzerland, 10.7 percent in Germany, 9.7 percent in Canada and 9.5 percent in France, according to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development.4" That is from 2007 or 2008. Found on the www. |
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12 Jul 09 - 06:41 AM (#2678073) Subject: RE: BS: The Sick Truth behind 'SICKO' From: mandotim A quick reply to Jaquie c above (11th July 2.31pm). Ask Kendall's friend to quote the source of the assertion about anyone over 59yrs being denied treatment for heart complaints in the UK. I live in the UK, worked in the NHS for 20 years and now teach NHS staff and others at University. One of my subject areas is public policy in healthcare. I can state categorically that the assertion above is completely and utterly untrue, and sounds as if it has been fabricated by opponents of what benighted people in the USA regard as 'socialism in healthcare'. The only reason why anyone might be denied treatment for heart disease is if they were medically unfit to withstand the treatment; for example, someone who is morbidly obese needing a heart transplant, and who would be likely to die under anaesthetic. In these circumstances medical staff would help the patient to lose weight, then do the operation. Free. Please try not to parrot these weird assertions without doing some basic research. Tim |
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12 Jul 09 - 07:54 AM (#2678105) Subject: RE: BS: The Sick Truth behind 'SICKO' From: maeve "Please try not to parrot these weird assertions without doing some basic research. Tim" Mandotim- Perhaps you, like many of us, read the earlier posts too quickly. Jacqui made it clear the email was based on a lie when she ended her post of 11 Jul 09 - 02:31 with this: "Looks like the insurance and drug companies are really getting desperate if they have to resort to such barefaced lies." Regards, maeve |
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12 Jul 09 - 08:22 AM (#2678113) Subject: RE: BS: The Sick Truth behind 'SICKO' From: jacqui.c Maeve - thank you melove. Mandotim - Kendall always answers these kind of idiotic statements with the truth. On this occasion we were able to go back to the guy with actual cases of UK healthcare that have taken place in my own extended family over the past year, just to show how misguided this poor chap really is. That he can't argue against and we are hoping that it might just make him think about the rest of the crap that he takes in about how good life was under Bush and how Obama's government is ruining American life. Kendall gets this sort of thing from his right wing friends now and again and, if they are citing the UK as a dire warning, generally checks with me for comment before replying. My normal comment is "What a load of bollocks". It is such a shame that these people must resort to such barefaced lies because they have no valid points to put forward to further their case and an even greater shame that their lies are taken in 100% by so many people. Looks like appealing to the lowest common denominator does pay off. |
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12 Jul 09 - 09:43 AM (#2678159) Subject: RE: BS: The Sick Truth behind 'SICKO' From: olddude and I apologize deeply for my language. It is such a sore subject for me that I cannot hold back. I have seen so many good people completely ruined by the crushing debt that occurs with a serious health problem that it makes me want to scream. |
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12 Jul 09 - 10:36 AM (#2678204) Subject: RE: BS: The Sick Truth behind 'SICKO' From: Sandy Mc Lean I think capitalism's greatest shame is the way that it tries to profit from the medical misfortune of others. The most telling and damning part of Michael Moore's movie was when the 911 New York firefighters were denied care by their health insurance, but Cuba offered them the needed treatment. Far worse though is the worldwide patent fights by big drug companies that prevent generic AIDS drugs from treating millions of people in the third world. What I find a puzzle is when fundamentalist Christians equate socialism with an act of the devil when Christ was socialist in both his lifestyle and teaching. What a strange strange world we live in.............. |