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18 Nov 09 - 06:07 PM (#2768777) Subject: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: Lox Ireland bowed out of the world cup tonight thanks to a deliberate and cynical handball that the referee didn't see. He effectively caught the ball from a freekick into the box in his hand and then dropped it at his feet before setting up a goal while the ref ignored the calls for handball going on around him. BOOOO!! |
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18 Nov 09 - 06:27 PM (#2768792) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: gnu Can a complaint be lodged for review? |
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18 Nov 09 - 06:44 PM (#2768809) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: The Sandman video replays should be allowed or alternatively,have two extra umpires standing by the goal as they do in GAA Football/hurling. there was a time not very long ago when batsmen in cricket walked when they were out. Henry could have easily said to the referee, I handled the ball, however with technology it can easily be decided by a television referee. it is about time this was introduced to Soccer. what happened tonight was a sad day for sport and sportsmanship. |
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18 Nov 09 - 07:28 PM (#2768835) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: Tug the Cox Ireland should have walked off and refused to play any further part. The loss a hard earned world cup place to an obvious piece of cheating is just too much to put up with, and there is NO appeal. |
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18 Nov 09 - 07:31 PM (#2768842) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: Fergie Henry cheated and has sullied his career and his country. Trapettoni, (I hope) has learned a lesson from this magnificent display by Ireland, the lesson is let the players off the leash and they can perform at a high level. Fantastic performance by the Irish squad. Fergus |
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18 Nov 09 - 08:56 PM (#2768892) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: GUEST,Tommy Lo Shame on Henry!!! The goal should be overruled and reply the game from 103'. |
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18 Nov 09 - 08:59 PM (#2768898) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: Dave the Gnome Not another 'Hand of God' I hope? DeG |
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18 Nov 09 - 11:46 PM (#2768946) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: Neil D I remember watching Argentina win the World Cup on a goal that Diego Maradonna punched in with his head shielding his fist from the referee, making it look like a header. Instant replay should be used in all sports. Why let tradition that predates technology get in the way of getting it right. |
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19 Nov 09 - 12:43 AM (#2768962) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: alanabit The difference being of course that England had been thoroughly outplayed in 1986 and never looked like avoiding defeat. Ireland were robbed, but it is the sort of misfortune, which awaits any side,which fails to put their chances away. |
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19 Nov 09 - 04:31 AM (#2769017) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: Smedley Ireland would have lost in a penalty shoot-out. The World Cup will be a better spectacle with France in it. And how many other players, in Henry's position and given the significance of the match, would have done just the same ? 99%. |
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19 Nov 09 - 05:17 AM (#2769023) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: Tug the Cox Supposition, supposition, supposition. |
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19 Nov 09 - 05:29 AM (#2769032) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: ard mhacha Let`s be clear about Henry`s hand ball, there is not a professional footballer playing to-day that wouldn`t have done the same. ask Maradona. The Irish had several chances to put the game away, three of which were gilt-edged, this has been a common failure with all Irish sides for years., in saying that this was far and away the best Irish performance ever. A heart braking defeat for a team of players giving everything, just a pity about the finishing. |
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19 Nov 09 - 05:44 AM (#2769039) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: GUEST,Ralphie The Irony is that if France go on to win the world cup. Their victory will be forever tainted. If I was the French manager, I would insist on a re-match (In Paris, obviously) particularly as Thierry Henry admitted his actions. I certainly wouldn't want to be in his shoes when he plays his next game in the UK. |
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19 Nov 09 - 06:10 AM (#2769056) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: GUEST,Falco "The hand of Frog" France imo didn't deserve to go through on the 2 matches. In the away leg they were lucky to get a deflected goal and in the return,they get away with a goal which should have been disallowed. Paul Mcshane for me should be blamed for the equaliser. He shouldn't have let Henry all alone at the far post. |
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19 Nov 09 - 06:23 AM (#2769065) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: Dave Hanson It's been a long long time since there was any ' sportsmanship ' in professional football, it's about money, win by attrition. Dave H |
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19 Nov 09 - 07:18 AM (#2769098) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: the fence Bomb France. Sorted!!!! |
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19 Nov 09 - 07:43 AM (#2769116) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: GUEST,raymond la science france have done the job. Thank's for all your support. even our president is happy for the qualification. our superstars team will raise high colors of france in south africa world cup football cup, and all the entire world will see his faboulous play and sportmanship. meanwille,we will increase the rate of the commercial's on french tv. spécial thank to fifa to decide not to use video replay, or more referees in the field. let's come to see us in june in south africa ! raymond la science from clairefontaine. |
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19 Nov 09 - 08:16 AM (#2769128) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: ard mhacha The most blatant form of cheating should he laid at the door of Sepp Blatter and FIFA officials by arranging seeding of the so-called strong nations against the minnows. Only Russia failed to go through thanks to Slovenias win, Robbie Keane was right when he said the draw was a fix, this draw ensured that Blatter`s preaching about fair play wasn`t applied in the quarter final draw, Money rears it`s ugly head in the guise of FIFA, pointing out that the "beautiful game" is far removed from equality. |
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19 Nov 09 - 08:44 AM (#2769139) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: ard mhacha An item from FIFAs "FAIR PLAY" Dossier, Play fair. ["Winning is without value if victory has been achieved unfairly or dishonestly. Cheating is easy, but brings no pleasure. Playing fair requires courage and character. It is also more satisfying. Fair play always has its reward, even when the game is lost. Playing fair earns respect, while cheating only brings shame. Remember: it is only a game. And games are pointless unless played fairly."], Tne football world awaits Blatter`s comments on last nights game. |
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19 Nov 09 - 09:46 AM (#2769169) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: Arnie I heard today that replays are not unknown in world cup qualifiers but in last night's match, the ref awarded the goal and has not revoked that decision. It is therefore unlikely that Ireland will get their much-deserved replay. It really does sour the competition to see France get to SA by Henry's cheating and the sooner we get video replays to assist the ref, the better. It works fine in rugby & cricket (when trialled this summer) and a 1 or 2 minute delay whilst the 4th official watches the video is well worthwhile if it helps prevent the goal cheats and doubtful decisions. No doubt many more dodgy decisions & diving or 'simulation' as it is now called, to be awarded a penalty will be witnessed next summer. You'd think the refs would be agitating for video replays to give them some assistance, but they seem strangely quiet on the matter. |
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19 Nov 09 - 10:27 AM (#2769187) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: Dave Hanson And it's long been known that Sepp Blatter is corrupt. Dave H |
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19 Nov 09 - 01:50 PM (#2769324) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: ard mhacha I agree Arnie, the Irish have no chance of a re-play, the refs decision is final. Henry would have been wiser saying nothing, he admits he handed the ball lying in his teeth that it was accidental, re-plays of the incident confirms his lie, also if he was being honest the time to tell the ref is immediately after the incident, of course he told him after the match. The time has surely arrived for video re-plays, Ireland are not the only football team to suffer officials mistakes, in the case of last nights blunder, money wise, an awful lot was at stake for the Irish team, but a hell of a lot more for FIFA. |
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19 Nov 09 - 08:47 PM (#2769547) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: michaelr Why is there no instant replay in football? Just last week, in the Chelsea-Manchester game, Didier Drogba was kicked in the chest and flattened at the edge of the box. The ref gave him a yellow card, presumably for acting or wasting time. The replay made it obvious that he was viciously fouled. That's only one of many instances of bad refereeing I have seen that could have been rectified with instant replay. It's past time UEFA/FIFA/etc. came into the 21st century. Cheers, Michael |
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20 Nov 09 - 06:56 AM (#2769712) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: Leadfingers It rather devalues the whole World Cup doesnt it ? A team get through by cheating AND admitting the Cheating , and the Referee's decision stands . Makes Westminster look Sqeaky Clean , doesnt it ? |
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20 Nov 09 - 06:57 AM (#2769713) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: MGM·Lion & when it does come - & it will, just as it has in cricket & tennis &c - everyone will say, "What did we do without it, why has it taken so long?" — just as they are doing already in all the sports where it has been adopted. Mind you, a limit to the # of appeals allowed, as in tennis [no more than 3 unsuccessful appeals per set], would be a good idea here also & keep things within sensible bounds; + perhaps a provision that only the captain is entitled to appeal? |
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20 Nov 09 - 04:26 PM (#2770056) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: michaelr Appeals limited to the captain, and/or the coach, would make sense. You think it will come? |
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20 Nov 09 - 04:29 PM (#2770060) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: goatfell 1966 and all that |
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20 Nov 09 - 04:48 PM (#2770067) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: ard mhacha In the new European league for the also-rans, they are trying a new system, positioning a referee behind tne goaline, this would have certainly worked in the Henry incident. I can`t see FIFA adopting this, although, it is working alright in the EL. The old traditionalists in charge at FIFA fear any change in the laws of the game, could be the row over the Henry hand ball might wake them up. |
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20 Nov 09 - 08:36 PM (#2770193) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: McGrath of Harlow The principle that the responsibility of identifying a foul rests solely with the referee and not with the person committing the foul is contemptible. |
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21 Nov 09 - 02:47 AM (#2770297) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: Gurney Like all such actions, it will come back to haunt him. He will be booed on in any UK ground he plays from now on, I suppose. If he had explained to the Ref at the time, he'd be venerated forever as a sportsman. Short sighted. |
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21 Nov 09 - 05:02 AM (#2770326) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: Backwoodsman "He will be booed on in any UK ground he plays from now on, I suppose" True enough, but I doubt he'll hear the boos - they will be drowned out by the sound of money falling into bank accounts. Sportsmanship will always be punching way above its weight in any contest with the filthy lucre. It's a sad fact of modern, professional sporting life. |
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21 Nov 09 - 09:13 AM (#2770406) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: Jim Carroll No great interest in football - rather watch paint dry, but my estimation of Roy Keane rocketed yesterday when he put it all in a nutshell when he said, "It's a done deal - get over it". It's only a game anyway. Jim Carroll |
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21 Nov 09 - 09:35 AM (#2770424) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: MGM·Lion "Only a game", sez you. Don't forget Bill Shankly — "Football isn't a matter of life and death — it's much more important than that." |
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21 Nov 09 - 01:22 PM (#2770598) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: McGrath of Harlow One interesting statistic that should get in the craw of people getting anti-French on the basis of this - it is reported that 82 per cent of French people polled thought that the right thing to do would be to play the match again. That won't happen - but I wonder whether the same would have been true if it had been a poll of English people in circumstances where England had got through in the same way. I somehow doubt it. |
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21 Nov 09 - 01:28 PM (#2770600) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: MGM·Lion An imponderable, McGrath — but I do know that, if I were polled in such a situation I should vote for a replay; & I don't think I should be atypical. |
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21 Nov 09 - 01:30 PM (#2770606) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: McGrath of Harlow Or for that matter, a poll in Ireland, if the handball that took them through had been by an Irish player... |
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21 Nov 09 - 01:51 PM (#2770616) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: Neil D Thierry Henry himself has said there should be a replay. |
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21 Nov 09 - 03:59 PM (#2770699) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: ard mhacha The tabloids here are trying to stir up anti-French feeling, this is nonsense, only a few head-cases are taking the French to task. Roy Keane is full of hate and this was an excuse for him to get his boot into the Football Association of Ireland, blaming the goalkeeper was ridiculous, Shay Given the Irish keeper is one of the top keepers in the world. I don`t agree with the Irish politicians putting their nose in, getting votes would be their main objective. The protests should be finished , no amount of moaning will change the result. The only good thing that may come out of all of this is to use video evidence or the two extra officals as are used in the European League, the old die-hards in Fifa will take some shifting, we wait in hope. |
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21 Nov 09 - 04:48 PM (#2770719) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: McGrath of Harlow Of course they do, accept use of such evidence after the events. That wouldn't change the result, but there's no reason the penalty for people proved to have cheated can't be severe enough to serve to act as a deterrent. And a points penalty could be imposed on the team for that matter. So Henry could be banned from the World Cup - and France could be made to go forward with a couple of points handicap. |
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21 Nov 09 - 05:11 PM (#2770735) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: ard mhacha McGrath it will never happen, Henry will get off without any penalty, he will start the World Cup along with the rest of the French team. Anyone remember a few years ago Dennis Wise palming the ball into the goal in Poland, and eliminating them from the World Cup?, The fact that this recent incident has been seen and discussed world wide may stir Fifa into action. I keep repeating the most blatant form of cheating was Fifa changing the rules a couple of weeks before the quarter finals and seeding them to assure that the stronger nations would go through, apart from Slovenia eliminating Russia, three out of four was a coup for Fifa. The Swedish linesman should have seen that two French forwards were off side before the"goal", well Fifa did appoint the Swedish officials. |
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22 Nov 09 - 03:45 PM (#2771296) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: ard mhacha Sorry that Denis Wise hand ball was against Turkey. |
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23 Nov 09 - 12:36 PM (#2771886) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: GUEST,Chris Send Jedward from 'X' Factor to France to do a series of concerts. If that doesn't even things up, nothing will. |
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23 Nov 09 - 12:58 PM (#2771902) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: Wolfgang Too much "Instant replay" would be a mixed blessing. It would make the game often more boring and much longer. What if a wrong throw-in decision leads to a goal 2 min later? Should an ongoing action be stopped for replay or not? Could each team ask for as many replays as they feel like? If replay would only come during interruptions, should all of the preceding 5 min of a boring game be replayed, just in case? Most games of football are without the option of replay, so that would make replay only a mayor leagues option. I see only two possible changes I could agree with: (1) Two additional goal-linesmen (the "handball" would have been spotted) (2) Replay only three times (or five) per game for each team's captain and no one else to request. If the decision is upheld the other team gets a freekick. Wolfgang (who'd like to see a replay of the '66 final) |
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23 Nov 09 - 01:07 PM (#2771912) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: Wolfgang Third goal in the 1966 final from a camera more or less exactly at the goal line (link to Youtube video) Wolfgang |
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23 Nov 09 - 01:11 PM (#2771917) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: MGM·Lion Replay only three times (or five) per game for each team's captain and no one else to request. >>> If you had read the thread before rushing to post, Wolfgang, you would have found I had made exactly this suggestion 18 posts back. |
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23 Nov 09 - 02:55 PM (#2772013) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: GUEST,Falco Evra wants a Statue to Henry - Well perhaps the Irish should build one as well and place it outside the French Embassy in Dublin. Henry would make a good Gaelic Footballer. I hope all opposition fans give France the treatment they deserve in South Africa. The time has come for rule 5 to be rewritten to include the use of Video Technology and a 5th official. It works in Rugby, Cricket, Tennis and Ice Hockey. They say the Camera never lies. A communication system, and just a few Camera angles, and just a few seconds would have chalked the French goal off. Henry would have been yellow carded. Same for the Divers who are ruining the game. WAKE UP FIFA AND ENTER THE 21st CENTURY. You are the richest Sport, with huge revenues, not to mention a few Jerks in Suits. OK, no replay for Ireland but there is no excuse for not introducing Technology. Otherwise the Cheats will just continue to prosper and ruin the game for those of you that pay good money to watch the so called Role Models. Big meeting to take place to look at the events of last week. |
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23 Nov 09 - 02:57 PM (#2772015) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: McGrath of Harlow Of course context is everything in this kind of thing. In the Premier League match on Sunday between Spurs and Wigan there was an even more blatant handball by a player scoring a goal, and nobody gives a damn about it. Well, with Wigan losing 9-1, it'd need a hard heart to begrudge them that single goal, even if it wasn't strictly legal. Here's a piece on this from a Scottish TV site, full of mock sound and fury about it, as a way of commenting on the row about Henry's handball. "Spurs fans to contest greatest injustice in history of football?" |
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23 Nov 09 - 05:48 PM (#2772127) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: Lox And yesterdays news is good for nothing more than chip wrappings. Livid at the time - over it now. I wish France luck and hope nobody else is unsporting about it. The ref made a bad decision, and possibly with FIFA's blessing/encouragement ... but its all over now. |
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23 Nov 09 - 06:09 PM (#2772140) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: Connacht Rambler I was angry at Henry's handjob, too. ++++++Newsflash+++++ THE BLAME GAME Ireland 9 France 1 Now please let's all get over it. |
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23 Nov 09 - 07:36 PM (#2772190) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: McGrath of Harlow But the score in 1966, even without that goal, would have still been 3-2, Wolfgang. |
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24 Nov 09 - 05:06 AM (#2772411) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: ard mhacha Blatter has called an extraordinary meeting of Fifa`s executive committee to deal with the fall-out of the match in Paris. It is understood that a replay of the France v Ireland game is not on the cards. One possible outcome could be a proposal to fast track Uefa`s current experiment in the Europa League of having an extra assistant behind each goal-line in time for next summers World Cup finals. The fact that they are going to discuss this sensible solution gives the fans some hope that common sense will prevail, and this ruling will become law. |
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24 Nov 09 - 11:17 AM (#2772627) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: GUEST,Allan C "the score in 1966 would still have been 3-2" That isn't really so as the entire end to the match would have been completely different. Likewise with the England v Argentina game. Anything changing like England's thrid goal against the Germans or Maradona's first against England, being disallowed would be bound to change the rset of the game in one way or another. Saying that if they bring technology in to it I hope they don't go the same way as Rugby Union. The refs often seem unwilling to give a try without going to the technology unless it is blindingly obvious. You hear them saying "is there any reason for me not to give that try?" and it slows things down and mutes the instant celebrations etc. It would be much better just to have technology interfere only in real special circumstances when the refs have made a glaring mistake or obviously missed something crucial. |
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24 Nov 09 - 01:01 PM (#2772738) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: McGrath of Harlow "mutes the instant celebrations" That would strengthen the case for technology. Added technology and extra referees both imply the same thing - the people playing the game, and their managers, are cheats. That's true enough, I suppose - the pity is that the attitude that it's OK to do anything you like against the rules, if you can get away with it, inevitably seeps down into the amateur game, where of course there won't be the technology or the extra officials to keep the cheating in check. |
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25 Nov 09 - 04:23 AM (#2773183) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: ard mhacha McGrath I have been around the greatest amateur sport in the world for donkeys years namely the GAA and cheating was par for the course, I seen umpires behind the goals clearly cheating, this from my own team. It goes on in all sports and while the two extra assistants will be a big help, the simulators[I prefer divers] will continue to con the ref. |
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25 Nov 09 - 07:49 PM (#2773806) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: McGrath of Harlow I think I'd sooner tolerate a situation where though cheating doesn't always get found out, it is seen as wrong, rather than one where there are an army of officials and video surveillance in a handful of occasions and an attitude throughout the whole game (where those things won't be present) that players are entitled to get away with whatever they can, and that it's a bit admirable to do that. Cheating will always be there - my impression from the matches I've seen (not enough sadly) that there is in fact less of it in the Gaelic games than in professional football. But my point there wasn't that being amateur in itself reduces the cheating, but that amateur games are less likely to be able to provide the anti-cheating officials and technology. (The GAA is a bit different here, because that's amateur sport with a mass following and with a fair bit of money.) |
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26 Nov 09 - 05:20 AM (#2773956) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: ard mhacha Believe me McGrath there is as much cheating in GAA as any other sport, when the honour of the parish is at stake and your County is out there trying by any means to win, you would cheat your mother. We have been told down the years that sport is the great healer, and that it brings people together, it certainly brings people together, and then all hell breaks loose |
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26 Nov 09 - 01:32 PM (#2774267) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: The Sandman I thought roy keane was a bitteen off Beam,partly right about mcshane[full back]but an irrelevant comment,if the ball is handled it is illegal,never mind whether the full back is competent or not. roy keane will be getting his cards soon if he doesnt do a bit better himself. |
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02 Dec 09 - 11:34 AM (#2778559) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: GUEST,Tommy Lo More madness, Scottish trade unions called on supporters of Celtic to wave Palestinian flags at their Europa League home match on Wednesday against Israel's Hapoel Tel Aviv in "solidarity with suffering Palestinians." Celtic insists it has always been a club which welcomes fans regardless of gender, age, race, religion, politics or ability, most of its supporters come from Glasgow's large Catholic community. European soccer's governing body UEFA said in a statement: "UEFA is fully aware of the planned demonstration outside the ground before the UEFA Europa League match Celtic FC v Hapoel Tel-Aviv FC and we have been in close contact with both clubs and the local authorities about closely monitoring the situation." |
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02 Dec 09 - 01:36 PM (#2778703) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: ard mhacha So there you have it, the dinosaurs in FIFA refuse to let common sense be a part of the game, http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/internationals/8391237.stm |
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02 Dec 09 - 04:52 PM (#2778918) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: Rafflesbear When you have the offside rule which requires the linesman to look at the person kicking the ball in his own half at the same time as he is looking at a player's position relative to the opposition on the edge of the penalty area - when the subject is chewed over by pundits who have the benefit of slow motion and freeze frame and still they can barely agree and when you introduce a subjective judgement about whether he is interfering with the play or not(who was it who once said "if he's not interfering with the play what is he doing on the pitch") are you really going to hold up the game for review by camera? Better the Ice Hockey offside rule and better that we teach our children not to cheat and live by the principle ourselves I play volleyball and from now on I'm going to own up to every net touch |
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02 Dec 09 - 05:05 PM (#2778933) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: McGrath of Harlow Offside is confusing, and mistakes are made, but blatant cheating by players isn't generally involved. |
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02 Dec 09 - 05:27 PM (#2778953) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: Rafflesbear Think I may have mixed up two separate points there 1 - TV replay for offside is unworkable - better to resolve the rule by making it possible for the linesmen to get it right 2 - TV replay for cheating is undesirable - better to foster a non-cheating ethic |
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03 Dec 09 - 01:06 AM (#2779200) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: MGM·Lion Better by far to ABOLISH THE OFFSIDE RULE COMPLETELY. It is obsolete in the modern game, which is predicated on the technique of [often short] precision passing, having been intro'd early in the game's history when 'boot it hard upfield & hope for the best' was order of the day; & has now surely outlived its usefulness & original purpose. It does nothing but lead to disagreement, confusion & frustration. GET RID OF IT, I say again. Might seem a radical suggestion, but such basic changes not unknown or unprecedented — look at the very recent pass-back-to-goalkeeper rules which have become so quickly & universally accepted & integrated into the game, much to everybody's benefit. |
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03 Dec 09 - 02:48 AM (#2779242) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: GUEST,Allan C "STUC urge Celtic fans to wave Palestinian flags" Palestinian flags have been waved for some years by certain sections of Celtic fans just as Israeli flags can be seen waved by Rangers fans at Ibrox. Rather than any political thought going into this it is just another way the two tribes can differentiate and hate each other. As if they didn't have enough religious differences - and that is said by a Proddie Celtic supporter! One would have thought folk at the STUC would have more sense. |
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03 Dec 09 - 01:10 PM (#2779742) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: ard mhacha MtheGM, I totally agree, the offside rule is anther ancient law that should have been removed years ago. The Scottish FA experimented with this in a pre-season tournament in the 1960s, it worked very well unfortunately the FA in England didn`t go along with the idea and another stupid law was retained. |
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03 Dec 09 - 01:55 PM (#2779804) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: MGM·Lion Thanks, ard mhacha. Those with long memories might also recall the just postwar visit to UK of Moscow Dynamo. Soviet teams at the time didn't have an offside rule, so it was suspended in all their matches - much was made of the political & ideological implications of their exceptionally skilful short-passing technique, rubricated by some as emblematic of socialist co-operation, with which an offside rule would not have been compatible. Anyhow, the point is, that the games were played with no offside; and, as Boris Becker remarked in another context, "Nobody died." |
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04 Dec 09 - 06:31 AM (#2780352) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: ard mhacha Moscow Dynamo were the forerunners of the great Austrian and Hungarian teams of the early 1950s. My interest was aroused when a schoolboy when our local men returned from working in England, some of them had seen the Dynamo team play Chelsea and Arsenal and were amazed at the skill of the Dynamo side, the British press at the time were far from pleased by the fact that their top sides strengthened by internationals from other clubs were being taught the arts of the game by the Russians. The Dynamo team were undefeated in their 4 match tour, leaving behind memories of a great football side, the offside law didn`t deter the Russians. The book `Passovochika by David Downing covers their visit and the controversy they left in their wake. ` |
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04 Dec 09 - 07:12 AM (#2780369) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: McGrath of Harlow They could abolish the ban on handball as well. |
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04 Dec 09 - 07:33 AM (#2780388) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: Backwoodsman They did. And it's called 'Rugby'. (Or American Football if you live left-side of the Ditch). |
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04 Dec 09 - 08:16 AM (#2780419) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: Lox I agree with MthGM about the offside rule. I would certainly be very interested to watch a game without it. That's how I used to play as a kid anyway ... |
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04 Dec 09 - 08:21 AM (#2780424) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: McGrath of Harlow No - handball isn't the same as carrying the ball. The point of introducing an offside rule was to stop the practice of "sneaking" - hanging around the goal mouth to score from a long ball from the other end of the pitch. Gaelic Football manages very well without an offside rule, but it's a very different game. Any rule change changes how a game is played in ways that may never have been envisaged by the people introducing it. |
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04 Dec 09 - 08:57 AM (#2780458) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: MGM·Lion Indeed, McGrath - the notorious Law Of Unintended Consequences must always be allowed for; but one can always restore the status quo in such a case if found the change doesn't work [look how, on these very threads, that supposed improvement intro'd by Joe just a few weeks ago to speed up communication simply got in everybody's way & has been quietly dropped with no fuss]. I don't think anyone would disagree that the, fairly recent, basic changes to the pass-back-to-goalkeeper procedures have vastly improved the game. |
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04 Dec 09 - 09:32 AM (#2780479) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: Arnie I agree with McGrath on this one. In the days when I played a bit of football, 'goal-hanger' was an insult used against players who never tracked back to win the ball but always hung around the penalty area waiting to pounce. Of course, the offside rule meant that the goal-hanger had to move upfield if the defenders moved upfield. Without offside, one or two goal-hangers could simply linger around the opposing goalie and wait for the ball to be kicked long for them to collect. Not a very edifying spectacle and I don't think it would improve the game at all. |
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04 Dec 09 - 10:05 AM (#2780497) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: MGM·Lion Techniques would obviously develop to obviate the 'goalhanger' tendency, I believe. I can see the point of the offside rule; but feel it introduces more irritation & frustration into the modern game than it is worth. I should like to see an experimental season played without it, just to see whether it actually made any significant difference. |
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04 Dec 09 - 01:47 PM (#2780675) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: ard mhacha Some rules in football when changed proved how stupid the old rule were, League games and a good few Cup finals were played with 11 players against 10 due to injury. When the substitute rule was introduced I can still hear the die-hards lamenting the change, not too mant complaints now, change can be good for the game and the boring offside law is one change I would like to see, defenders getting praise for moving forward as one man to slow the game down, boring, get it changed. |
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04 Dec 09 - 02:21 PM (#2780707) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: MGM·Lion ard mhacha is absolutely right. The 'offside trap' has always been much more of a threat to the integrity of the game than the risk of 'goal hanging', which is in any event minimal in the modern game. |
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04 Dec 09 - 02:29 PM (#2780716) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: McGrath of Harlow ...'goal hanging', which is in any event minimal in the modern game. Well, it can't really exist, because the goals wouldn't count. But without an offside rule it wouldn't be "the modern game" any more. I suppose you could call it a "postmodern game - and goalhanging would inevitably be a significant part of it. |
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04 Dec 09 - 02:44 PM (#2780731) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: MGM·Lion ===But without an offside rule it wouldn't be "the modern game" any more. I suppose you could call it a "postmodern game - and goalhanging would inevitably be a significant part of it.===== On the contrary — it's the idiotic offside rule, formed back when the game was new and the only technique was to boot upfield & hope for the best, which is now the most OLD-FASHIONED aspect of the game to survive. Getting rid of it, and so necessitating new defensive techniques to obviate goal-hanging risks, would inevitably enliven & modernise the game. |
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04 Dec 09 - 03:54 PM (#2780797) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: McGrath of Harlow "Old-fashioned" - is that supposed to be necessarily a bad thing? |
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04 Dec 09 - 06:58 PM (#2780943) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: Rafflesbear So what about the Ice Hockey version ? for the uninitiated there is a line across the pitch forming an end zone into which the attackers cannot pass until the puck (ball) has preceded them. Once past the line the attackers have free movement unless the ball comes out of the end zone. The attackers then have to vacate the zone and start again while the midfield try to hold on to the ball until they are out easy for the linesman, it stops goal hanging and works well in Ice Hockey (thread drift down to me - sorry) |
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04 Dec 09 - 10:04 PM (#2781030) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: MGM·Lion ==="Old-fashioned" - is that supposed to be necessarily a bad thing? === No, McG — I was simply responding to your assertion that offside was so much part of the MODERN game, as if that somehow made it indispensable; and that any change would bring us into a 'post-modern' situation. I couldn't quite frankly, make heads-or-tails about what you were on about there. 'Old-fashioned' might not intrinsically be a pejorative term; but my point was [& is] that offside has served its purpose, no longer fulfilling the function for which it was first constructed all those years ago, but leading to other abuses like the concerted move upfield to create the offside-trap; & has therefore long since turned from being a useful aid to the game to being a drag upon it. High time at least to TRY OUT an alternative. |
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05 Dec 09 - 04:06 PM (#2781528) Subject: RE: BS: (football) Shame on Henry!! From: ard mhacha Look out for the con-man supreme, I have just seen Real Madrid beat Almeria in a Spanish League game, Real were awarded a penalty when Ronaldo was supposedly tripped by the Almeria `keeper. Plain to see on TV that Ronaldo dragged his left leg across the goalie and conned the ref into giving Madrid a penalty. Ronaldo`s tame effort was saved by the Almeria keeper a Real forward following up scored. This was another reason for having the two goal-line officials, the dive was plain to see but not by the ref, this con-man will continue this ploy throughout the World Cup, time for the n-men in Fifa to come into the real world. |