|
02 Feb 10 - 03:04 PM (#2828372) Subject: A Change of View From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Wouldn't it be wonderful if 'Learning Difficulties' became 'Learning Differences'. Then, it would actually mean something true. Learing 'difficulties' implies that people are 'a bit thick really' as 'they' cannot think like 'us', but with a bit of help, they'll eventually 'pick it up' 'Us', of ccurse, being those folks who so often are convinced that everyone thinks only in one way. Learning 'differences' however, implies that we, as a species, have finally started to understand that we all think in different ways, learn in different ways, hear, see, speak and communicate in different ways... |
|
02 Feb 10 - 03:04 PM (#2828374) Subject: RE: A Change of View From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Oops... BS please, Kindly Mudelf.. Thank you. x |
|
02 Feb 10 - 08:16 PM (#2828637) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: Q (Frank Staplin) Some people are 'a bit thick, really'. |
|
03 Feb 10 - 10:01 AM (#2828773) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: Dave the Gnome How did I know this would be you, Lizzie? I must be learning...:-) I think it is already in hand. If you look up learning differences you will find dozens of references. Here's one at random. I, for one, always try to use the term 'differently abled' rather than disabled as well. Makes more sense to me anyway. I don't tend to think in terms of 'us and them' either. I hope there is far more common ground between all people that there are differences so the gap between 'us and them', whoever we are talking about, can really be a lot smaller than you think. Hope this helps. DeG |
|
03 Feb 10 - 10:42 AM (#2828825) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: Dave the Gnome BTW, Lizzie - Honestly not wanting to be confrontational or contraversial but have you ever considered that when people cannot understand some of your points - As happens with me quite often - It could indicate that we have a different way of learning ourselves? I, for one, cannot get through long passionate arguments that have no structure. It is just my way. To be labeled cold, indifferent or worse because I think differently is no different to being thought of as 'a bit thick really' for the same thing. In my opinion anyway. Maybe we ALL need to change our views - Not just 'them'? Cheers D |
|
03 Feb 10 - 11:04 AM (#2828852) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: Nigel Parsons A questionnaire provided for parts of the UK 'civil service' which looks at the proportion of workers with varied disabilities gives, as the default option, "Not disabled". It seems strange to descrbe those who are, in the general view, able bodied by the use of a 'double negative' A similar questionnaire on sexual orientation gives the default option (most likely response) as "Heterosexual/straight". Now I know that some in the gay community may choose to describe hetero's as straight (or straights) but to use the reverse to describe gay persons might not be considered PC! It seems the language is being skewed in favour of supporting minorities. |
|
03 Feb 10 - 02:55 PM (#2829080) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: Dave the Gnome I think a little bit of possitive discrimination can help to redress a previous imbalance at times, but the first question you mention does seem very strange. I am not sure about the second. Sounds reasonable to me but maybe I misunderstood. One thing is certain though. Someone in the media will have already picked it up as 'PC gone mad'. Sad really. Going back to the point of learning differences I do consider myself to be somewhat lateral in thought at times. If I ever get the chance I am going to describe myself as an anorexic lesbian. I fancy women and when I look in the mirror I see a fat person. Think it will help? :D (eG) |
|
03 Feb 10 - 03:00 PM (#2829085) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: Paco O'Barmy When I was at school 30years ago there was a 'special' class known as the ESN class. This stood for 'Educationally sub normal' How very different to the life of our own dear Queen. |
|
03 Feb 10 - 03:24 PM (#2829099) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: GUEST,mauvepink I think Lizzie makes a fair point though. Same with "Special Needs", a particular one that I detest, as I believe we all have some special needs at various times in our life. I am not sure what else we could put in it's place but a removal of some labels would not be a bad start. Labels help stereotyping survive mp |
|
03 Feb 10 - 03:45 PM (#2829116) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: Paco O'Barmy In England at least, I don't know about the Colonies, but twelve years of Socialist government have bowlderised our dictionary to the point where you might as well throw away any edition written before 1997. They would be considered offence to modern sensibilities. It really doesn't matter what terminology you use, it's what you do about the problem! In my day it was accepted that the slower members of the class were properly prepared for a life involving tools. In Blair's Britain it appears that everyone simply must go to University. The wrong approach methinks! |
|
03 Feb 10 - 04:38 PM (#2829171) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: Melissa Can anybody think of a more insultively stupid 'improved label' than "handicapable"? |
|
03 Feb 10 - 04:59 PM (#2829199) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: Lizzie Cornish 1 "It really doesn't matter what terminology you use, it's what you do about the problem! In my day it was accepted that the slower members of the class were properly prepared for a life involving tools." It matters a great deal, actually. First of all, to be referred to as having a learning 'difficulty' when in reality your brain functions probably far more intelligently than those who are sticking 'stoopid' labels on you, goes deep into your psyche. Secondly, those who you refer to as 'the slower members of the class' are the very people that you cannot live without; the builders, the plumbers, the electricians....and it's way past time that you stopped being so damned smug, considering yourself to be more intelligent than they are, and realised that they are the people who you need in dire emergencies, because YOUR brain isn't able to work out what the hell to do....even though you may be quite good at computing skills or filing papers in a cabinet.. Don't patronise people purely because their brains work and think differently to yours. You do NOT have 'the superior brain' you just have one that is more common and for way too long has belonged to a group of people who have dared to label themselves as 'normal' and everyone else as 'slow'. It stinks. Thank you. |
|
03 Feb 10 - 05:23 PM (#2829227) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: Dave the Gnome Don't go off on one Lizzie. Whether you agree with Paco or not is irrelevant. He thinks differently to you. Why have a go at him for it? Just because labels matter to you don't expect everyone to think the same. He is no better or worse than you. Just differently minded. DeG |
|
03 Feb 10 - 05:29 PM (#2829235) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: Donuel Whats the difference, its still difficult. |
|
03 Feb 10 - 05:34 PM (#2829242) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: GUEST,David E. I remember in grade school (60's) somebody came up with the idea of putting the "slower learners" in one class and the "excelled learners" in another. To me at the time it meant the people most likely to beat you up after school in one class and all the pretty girls in the other. David E. |
|
06 Feb 10 - 03:11 PM (#2831595) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: Paco O'Barmy Oh dear oh dear oh dear! Dear thread, I grew up in the country, schooling was secondary to getting the harvest in, or going to evensong. Despite all this, myself and a few of my chums, rose above the ghashtly socialist comprehensive system, and managed to rise above it!! If i had gone to a private school like my father I would have risen out of the mire far more quickly!! Being brigh,t in a comprenhensive school class where the average IQ doesn't reach that of a chicken simply drags you all down! |
|
07 Feb 10 - 10:52 AM (#2832097) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: Lizzie Cornish 1 "New teachers demand training in how to handle violence in our schools" ...could become... "Why the fuck are our children SO unhappy that they're resorting to violence in our schools? We need to work this one out, FAST!" See....if you just alter the position from where you view the view, you really do get a very different scene in front of your eyes.. |
|
07 Feb 10 - 02:24 PM (#2832287) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: Nigel Parsons "Why the fuck are our children SO unhappy that they're resorting to violence in our schools? We need to work this one out, FAST!" And why do our children seem to swear so much? Is it because adults are unable to express themselves without adding in swear words where there is no justifiable reason? Why do our children think "fast" is an adverb, rather than an adjective (or noun)? Maybe that's also because of the poor example the adults are setting. |
|
07 Feb 10 - 03:03 PM (#2832320) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: Lizzie Cornish 1 "Why do our children think "fast" is an adverb, rather than an adjective (or noun)? Maybe that's also because of the poor example the adults are setting. " No, it's part of the reason the kids are imploding, because they're living in a world with crap jobs, crap outlook, starting their lives with mass debts, and have no hope of ever owning a house, or even renting one.... ...and meanwhile, all the bloody adults do is tell them off for getting their nouns muddled with their f'ing adjectives..! "Immigration is way too high!" ...becomes.... "Way past time we brought the Third World into One World and shared it all around, equally." |
|
08 Feb 10 - 02:15 PM (#2833133) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: paula t What about the child who is happily violent though? I'm not really having a go (I've got my tongue firmly in my cheek). However, not all violent behaviour stems from a child being unhappy at school.I've had to deal with more than one incident of a teenager being extremely violent, or threatening extreme violence, and that originated outside school and was brought in. We are not always to blame for everything. I can assure you that it is terrifying to be faced by a very large teenage boy armed with a knife, who wants to "cut up" three boys because his family has fallen out with theirs. I am not sure that there is a safe way to "restrain" someone like that - no matter what it is proposed young teachers should learn. Would anyone else attempt to restrain a violent teenager out in the street? What consequences could there be? What is minimum force? Any decision to restrain a violent child or remove them from a dangerous or disruptive situation is fraught with worry and complications. I know because I've been there.It is not a decision to be taken lightly, no matter how well trained you are. |
|
08 Feb 10 - 02:24 PM (#2833145) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Yes, children carrying knives...shooting each other... It never used to be this way. But what got to me on that news programme was all the adults discussing how teachers should be trained better, whilst not ONE person asked why teachers and children are now in constantly violent situations in the first place, what the reasons behind this are... We so need to deal with the causes, not just the consequences, because if you heal the cause then the consequence never gets to be there in the first place.. |
|
08 Feb 10 - 02:27 PM (#2833146) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: paula t I agree, Lizzie. The difficulty is that there are so many causes. Schools are not generally the cause of violence, but they are the place where children spend a great deal of time , so it can happen in school.We do our best to keep our children safe, but we need the support of parents and society in general to do this - and I regret that this is quite often in short supply. |
|
08 Feb 10 - 03:08 PM (#2833191) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: Emma B 'It never used to be this way'? The BBC reporting back in 2008 pointed out that unfortunately, "Knife-wielding gangs have a long history in the UK." Doug Sharp, professor of criminal justice at Birmingham City University, was quoted as saying that knives had been a problem for many years, certainly before WW2, in cities such as Glasgow. In the 1950s Teddy Boys, the original teen rebels, were notorious for their use of flick knives and switchblades. Gangs of mods and rockers fighting in 1964 sparked a moral panic about British youths. During the 1970s and 80s young 'football hooligans' engaged in running street battles and mass brawls on the terraces, often using weapons. Professor Sharp concluded that it was hard to know if things really were worse today as news took longer to get into the public domain and tended to have different focus. What the news actually reported about teachers and poor behaviour in the classroom was that - "a survey of 1,001 student teachers, newly-qualified teachers and probationers in England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, found 49% felt they had not had enough training to deal with challenging behaviour" While guidance by the Department for Children, Schools and Families lists the types of force teachers can use on children The Association of Teachers and Lecturers survey found that that new teachers are not clear on how to interpret it when faced with difficult situations when violence erupts speedily between pupils, what sort of steps they can take to try to stop the situation from escalating if they have to physically intervene, and how in fact they do that. |
|
08 Feb 10 - 03:30 PM (#2833219) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: paula t Hi Emma B, "While guidance by the Department for Children, Schools and Families lists the types of force teachers can use on children The Association of Teachers and Lecturers survey found that that new teachers are not clear on how to interpret it when faced with difficult situations when violence erupts speedily between pupils, what sort of steps they can take to try to stop the situation from escalating if they have to physically intervene, and how in fact they do that. " Yes, that's the problem. A teacher can be faced with having to make a decision quickly, at the time, and then have their actions dissected by the courts in the calm cold light of day. A tricky and dangerous situation to be in. All we can do is our best. |
|
08 Feb 10 - 03:37 PM (#2833224) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Well, I went to school.,..the worst in my area and nope, there was never ONE incident of a child or young person bringing a knife into school, Emma. I had friends at other schools and the same thing there, nothing. It hasn't always been like this....in schools. Yes the mods and rockers, the skinheads, but no, not in schools... So tell me, were they blowing each other to pieces with shotguns back in the 50s, in schools? I don't think so... |
|
08 Feb 10 - 05:16 PM (#2833355) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: Emma B Although Merseyside, gun crime is reported down by 27% and nationally, firearms offences have fallen by 5%, nevertheless London figures remain high. Joanne McCartney, Labour spokeswoman on policing on the London Assembly, said: "It is extremely concerning and what I'd like to see is some more information on the age of the young people involved" The ease of availability of converted handguns is indeed a problem as is the fact that this makes them available to younger people Police and community leaders in the capital say those discharging the firearms and those being shot at are young teenagers involved in "respect shootings" to settle petty disputes with little thought of the consequences although they also observe that more and more such shootings involve a gunshot to the leg, echoing the punishment attacks meted out in Northern Ireland. Detectives say that pointing a gun at the shin or knee is a deliberate tactic to avoid any chance the victim will die, risking a 30-year mandatory sentence. However Lizzie, maybe you can provide the statistics for your shock/horror statement that youngsters are blowing each other to pieces with shotguns in schools! In a recent BBC article about scanning school children for weapons their London correspondent points out that "Schools are not known as hot beds of criminality. None of the reported deaths in London have taken place on school premises and the proposal is for roving arches to be placed in schools occasionally but unannounced." Just north of Croydon at Merton Further Education College the Met Police and Merton rigged a roving arch up unannounced and monitored everyone coming into the college. Only one person was stopped with a knife and that was not one deemed to be lethal. As far as the authorities were concerned this vindicated their use of the arch and say it demonstrated to the student body that knife carrying was not at epidemic levels. CONEL College in Tottenham, north London, piloted a knife arch experiment in 2006. The Principal at CONEL College says one of the drawbacks was the perception created by local media that there must have been a problem in the first place. He added that overcoming this negative PR impact is clearly going to be important. It is a sad fact that the tiny minority of children who do bring knives into school often claim it is a 'defensive' measure encouraged by the kind of exaggerated headlines and scare stories designed to sell newspapers and grab attention on forums! |
|
09 Feb 10 - 03:52 AM (#2833685) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: Dave the Gnome What happened? Prior to Feb 7 there is no mention of violence in schools and the thread was discussing how to look at learning differences, well, differently. Then someone goes off on one about how shooting and stabbings appear to have become the norm in schools and all hell breaks loose. Why? Surely if we are looking at a change of view then people need to get to grips with why our children are viewed by some as knife-wielding, gun-toting thugs all on the verge of suicide due to pressure brought to bear by 'them', whoever 'they' are. Another thread receives the kiss of death I'm afraid... DeG |
|
09 Feb 10 - 04:19 AM (#2833701) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: Lizzie Cornish 1 April 20th 1999 Bowling For Columbine - The Film in 12 parts "Yes, it was a typical day, in the United States of America..." Michael Moore.. We've not had it here yet, Emma, but it will happen..it's only a matter of time. That case above is not the only time that has happened. The headmaster who was stabbed to death by one of his pupils, outside the gates of his school, as he tried to stop a fight..Philip Lawrence... Philip Lawrence's widow speaks out about death threats This is not normal, Emma. It did not happen when I was young...and to accept it as normal is highly dangerous. Children did NOT carry weapons to school in my day. I am 55 years old this April, I lived through those school years, went to the worst one in my area, and it was not a place of violence. Michael Moore looks at the causes behind the Columbine High School Massacre...but he was shouted down for that by those who refuse to look deeper into how fucked up Western societies now are. "It's ALWAYS been this way!" is one of the most dangerous views there has ever been! Change it to "It is NEVER going to be THIS way AGAIN!" and you may just start to heal this world... |
|
09 Feb 10 - 04:48 AM (#2833724) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: Dave the Gnome The Philip Lawrence Awards celebrating the good things young people do. Quote from Frances Lawrence, Philip's widow - When Philip..." (there is a pause, as if it is just too hard, too direct a thing to say) "... died, I had politicians of all parties beating a path to the door." She was appalled that "Philip became the catalyst for all this negative press about young people. I found that really rather hurtful. I had four young children myself at the time." Her three daughters ranged from 19 down to 13 and her son, Lucien, was just eight years old. "I wanted to say there were young people who did wonderful things, and to try to inspire others to follow that path. There are some people who do real work to change views. DeG |
|
09 Feb 10 - 05:31 AM (#2833752) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: Nigel Parsons This is not normal, Emma. It did not happen when I was young...and to accept it as normal is highly dangerous. Children did NOT carry weapons to school in my day. I am 55 years old this April, I lived through those school years, went to the worst one in my area, and it was not a place of violence. I think this is more down to perception of knives as weapons. When I was in high school (65-73) I carried a knife most days, but it wasn't deemed to be a weapon, it was a tool to be used in various situations. I would never have considered using it as a weapon. The fact that Lizzie never saw the knives does not mean they weren't being carried. |
|
09 Feb 10 - 05:53 AM (#2833772) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: Lizzie Cornish 1 My friend in Sidmouth told me that one day she found the most vicious looking knife in her son's bag. It wasn't a penknife, heck, loads of lads carried those, but they were for practical purposes, not killing people. This was an evil looking thing... He looked at her, her gentle, shy lad, told her all the boys had them, and he didn't feel safe without one, because sometimes they threatened each other. She was shocked to the core of her being. I wasn't. I just felt even sadder that so many young people are spending the majority of their young lives in schools where they feel threatened by their fellow pupils. This was Sidmouth College, not some run down, inner city school, but a beautiful looking school, with a fishpond in the front garden, koicarp swimming in it..and a feeling of 'all is well here'....but inside, it was the exact opposite for many children, not ALL, but many. Frances Lawrence is an incredible woman, David...and one for whom I have much respect. It is so often the case in terrible tragedies that people seek to turn it around, make good come out of bad, and she's done that, and her children are now successful people in their chosen careers it seems, when they could have had a very different future. Well done to her. The fact still stands though that headmasters, teachers, didn't used to get murdered by pupils when we were young. And sorry, my link above didn't go to the correct page. |
|
09 Feb 10 - 06:07 AM (#2833781) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: Dave the Gnome The main point should surely be that the VAST majority of our children do not take weapons to school and would never consider doing so. Any number of people in education will tell you the same as will the national crime statistics. They are ordinary, normal children just like we were and like our children were. I have every sympathy with your friend but would say that her son has been sadly led astray at a very vunerable age by the popular press and the people who are crying foul at every opportunity. Education is the answer, not in the way suggested, but education to ensure that youngsters such as him know that it is only demonisation and panic that has brought about his paranoia. And I still don't know how a thread about changing peoples views over learning differences has become yet another soapbox about violence, children and how it is everyone elses fault. We all know your views from the countless other threads, Lizzie. I thought you may have just been on a new topic this time but, sadly, I was wrong. DeG |
|
09 Feb 10 - 06:16 AM (#2833791) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: Emma B "The headmaster who was stabbed to death by one of his pupils" You just can't get anything correct can you Lizzie in your desire to ram your opinions down everyone's throats? As others have pointed out to you it's really easy to just check your facts before you go on and on and - it might even add a little credibility to some of your rants. Twelve members of a mainly Pilipino gang led by Learco Chindamo, who was NOT a pupil at St. George's school, went to "punish" a 13-year old black student named William Njoh, who had quarrelled with another Pilipino boy. A fight broke out near the school gates and was seen by Philip Lawrence who went outside the school to remonstrate with the gang and was punched and stabbed when he tried to intercept the attack on one of his pupils. "Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan |
|
09 Feb 10 - 06:31 AM (#2833805) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: Dave the Gnome Oh - and I have used that excuse myself. When my mother found a 10 pack of Woodbines in my bag I told her that all the lads had them and I didn't feel safe without them as I would be picked on. The biggest difference between then and now is my Mother was not so gullible. When will people begin to realise that children, bless them all, will and do mercilessly manipulte adults. DeG |
|
09 Feb 10 - 06:57 AM (#2833828) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: theleveller "Wouldn't it be wonderful if 'Learning Difficulties' became 'Learning Differences'." You're way out of date, Lizzie. The phrase used in education these days is 'special educational needs' (SEO) and it refers to children who are 'gifted and talented' as well as those who have different needs. It is the obligation of every state school (not however, private schools) to provide whatever extra resources these children need. Most of them do this. I don't, however, expect you to accept this as it contradicts your biased and old-fashioned view of what happens in schools these days. But then, when did you ever let the facts get in the way of your prejudices? |
|
09 Feb 10 - 07:01 AM (#2833832) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: theleveller SEO? SEN! |
|
09 Feb 10 - 07:37 AM (#2833857) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: Folkiedave Lizzie? Out of date? Surely not.......... |
|
09 Feb 10 - 07:43 AM (#2833861) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: Folkiedave And then I came across this quote. "It is bad science and bad politics to counter scepticism with righteous indignation." |
|
09 Feb 10 - 07:52 AM (#2833867) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: Dave the Gnome Is unrighteous indignation OK though? :D |
|
09 Feb 10 - 08:06 AM (#2833877) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: Lizzie Cornish 1 'special educational needs' still implies that those who have them are a bit 'odd'. They're not. They simply learn in a different way because their brains function in a different way. 'learning differences' applies to all of us, thus not excluding anyone from the 'Club of We Know Best'. "They are ordinary, normal children just like we were and like our children were." Yes, many are and that is even more reason why they struggle in this emotionally violent society, where bullying is rife in our schools. "I have every sympathy with your friend but would say that her son has been sadly led astray at a very vunerable age by the popular press and the people who are crying foul at every opportunity." My friend is hugely intelligent, as is her son, and her husband. Her daughter is the one with severe autism whom I spoke of in another thread. No, he was not led astray by anyone, he simply did it to protect himself. He is now out of school, in Uni, studying to become an architect, like his father, and he is far happier there than he ever was at school, where for many months he locked himself in his room, away from the world, because he could not cope with what was happening in school. "Education is the answer, not in the way suggested, but education to ensure that youngsters such as him know that it is only demonisation and panic that has brought about his paranoia." He was not, and is not suffering from paranoia. The paranoia comes from those who cry that it is NOT happening, when it is. Sadly. Nope, this is not about education, but about looking at things from a different angle, changing the view...we have merely sidetracked to this point because of a few posts earlier on. It is very easy to sidetrack to another subject, if you should want to, David, that is within the topic of the thread. |
|
09 Feb 10 - 08:10 AM (#2833881) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: Dave the Gnome As far as I can see the first post about violence in Schools was - Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: Lizzie Cornish 1 - PM Date: 07 Feb 10 - 10:52 AM "New teachers demand training in how to handle violence in our schools" ...could become... "Why the fuck are our children SO unhappy that they're resorting to violence in our schools? We need to work this one out, FAST!" Not complaining. Just interested how it happened. DeG |
|
09 Feb 10 - 08:13 AM (#2833885) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: Dave the Gnome ...and I choose to sidetrack to Solomon Kane - Far more interesting. Puritan fighter of evil from the pulp fiction of the 1920s - 1930s to Comic Book Hero and now to film. Can't wait to see it. |
|
09 Feb 10 - 08:15 AM (#2833888) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: Emma B As this thread, like so many others, has gone off topic to become yet another pathological process of wishful data interpretation attacking schools and the education system may I just comment on the film Bowling for Columbine which Lizzie informs me 'will happen' here "In search of the reason for the United States's trigger mania, Moore discovers a culture of fear created by the government and the media. He says that fear leads Americans to arm themselves,to gun making-companies' advantage" He attempts to contrast this with the attitude prevailing in Canada, where (he states) gun ownership is at similar levels to the U.S. but where he finds much less concern over crime and security. This generating fear by the media is also discussed in detail in "Choices in Preventing Youth Violence initiative", published by the Institute for Urban and Minority Education, Teachers College, Columbia University." A Symbiosis of Sorts: School Violence and the Media "The schools and the media sometimes seem locked in a symbiotic dance of death, making it difficult to think about school violence without taking note of its connection to the ever-present media." This article looks at the very selective coverage of school-aged children killed away from schools It argues that "school violence in places where the media least expect it, in predominantly white suburbs and bucolic rural locales, has been a magnet to reporters. There may be no end to the milking of what journalists regard as a "good" story. Newspapers and television outlets seek what is known in the trade as a "news peg"-a justification on which a story can be hung-even long after the event itself. Anniversaries of news events, including those involving school violence, become occasions for revisiting the story. Officials at Columbine High School, keenly aware that this would happen on April 20, 2000, exactly one year after the shootings, even scheduled news briefings in the weeks leading up to the anniversary to help the reporters prepare their stories." In looking at - The effects of media coverage It is observed that one report maintains that public fears about youth violence have been mounting even as evidence accumulates that such incidents have been decreasing but nonetheless the portion of Americans who believed that a shooting was likely in their neighborhood school rose from 49 percent to 70 percent during the same one-year period perhaps indicating that the media help stir fears by focusing on the relatively few fatal incidents inside school buildings. Leading them to conclude that "Perhaps the problem, in part, rests with the disproportionate amount of coverage that criminal incidents of any kind tend to receive when juveniles are involved, leading people to think that youth violence is ubiquitous." May I just repeat what I said above - "It is a sad fact that the tiny minority of children who do bring knives into school often claim it is a 'defensive' measure encouraged by the kind of exaggerated headlines and scare stories designed to sell newspapers and grab attention on forums!" "all the boys had them, and he didn't feel safe without one" Yes, generating fear by irresponsible, disturbingly highly charged emotional and inaccurate statements is the stuff of red top headlines and some posters. |
|
09 Feb 10 - 08:44 AM (#2833922) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Well, Emma..I trust Henry on this one. He was there, he endured it. And carrying a knife like that was way against his normally gentle nature. I've seen it from the inside out, with my own daughter, with my son, with the children of others. You stick to your belief, and I'll stick to mine. Thanks. Oh..and Levells, could you ring up the BBC and tell them how 'out of date' they are, as I've just watched the local news to hear that a centre for those with "learning *difficulties*" is due for closure in Cornwall. |
|
09 Feb 10 - 08:51 AM (#2833931) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: theleveller "'special educational needs' still implies that those who have them are a bit 'odd'." No it doesn't. It's you stigmatising children because they have different educational requirement. It says that children are individuals and have individual needs - something you're always banging on about, so what's your problem? Let's face it, you have such a downer on education in this country - something you haven't the faintest idea about - that nothing anyone says is going get your head out of the sand. When was the last time you actually went into a school and watched teaching in progress, saw how happy the kids were and how much they enjoyed the process of learning - and how professional and switched on the majority of teachers are? It may not be what happens in Lizzieworld but in the real world the education system wokrs for the majority of chilkdren, provided their parents don't turn them against it from an early age. |
|
09 Feb 10 - 09:07 AM (#2833943) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: theleveller "Oh..and Levells, could you ring up the BBC and tell them how 'out of date' they are" The BBC out of date - surely not! Just shows that the education system in this country is more on the ball and enlightened than our national media. |
|
09 Feb 10 - 09:10 AM (#2833945) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: Dave the Gnome BTW - I have already changed the subject in the 'TV Soaps' thread to save anyone any trouble later;-) |
|
09 Feb 10 - 10:29 AM (#2834074) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: Folkiedave special educational needs' still implies that those who have them are a bit 'odd'. No it doesn't it implies they have special educational needs. Very bright children have them too. So do some "ordinary" children in particular ways. As for taking notice of the press, if I complained about everything I saw wrong in the press hourly, daily, or weekly I would do nothing else. Yesterday the local newspaper did a piece on Grenoside Sword whose anniversary it is this year. It was illustrated by a picture captioned "A troupe of sword dancers at Grenoside". Apart from the fact it was morris dancers and it was Scholes - every word of the caption was true. could you ring up the BBC and tell them how 'out of date' they are Remember the BBC thought the White Bunny Rabbit was a traditional song and that Show of Hands are a duo. Doesn't mean we have to believe it. |
|
09 Feb 10 - 11:03 AM (#2834100) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: Dave the Gnome So, they are called 'troupes' then? :-P |
|
09 Feb 10 - 12:16 PM (#2834174) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: Emma B "You stick to your belief, and I'll stick to mine. Thanks." Thank you Lizzie - please stick to your 'beliefs', which apparently rely on one or two anecdotes as usual, but spare the the rest of us your continual proselytizing about some mythical rosy past that no one else recognizes. Personally, I prefer to stick to well established facts, proven studies or well founded theories before spouting my mouth off. I also choose not to employ the combination of overblown emotion and expletives that you utilize for your frequent and predictable obsessional uninformed opinions - such as the one theleveller succintly describes above. |
|
09 Feb 10 - 01:04 PM (#2834221) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: Mrs.Duck Sorry but I work in a special school. All the children have special educational needs due to their learning difficulties - some moderate and some severe. It is not just a question of learning differences, as different types of learner (kinaesthetic, visual, aural etc) are usually well catered for in mainstream schools. These kids find it 'difficult' to learn - period. They do not retain or process information fully enough to make much progress and require specialised differentiation and a lot of over learning. If you deny that they have a problem you deny their need for help. We want these children to grow up having the chance to live independently, be safe and healthy, have the prospect of economic stability and an income, have the opportunity to contribute to the society in which they live and be part of it. Special educational needs does also include the gifted and talented and certainly in all the schools I have worked in these children are identified and help given to fulfil their needs. My own children are all on the gifted and talented lists in their respective schools and have had the chance to attend special events aimed at bringing together those who excel in maths, science, literacy, sports and music. Other children have been selected for similar things related to art or technology. |
|
09 Feb 10 - 04:01 PM (#2834402) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Does it ever occur to you, Mrs. D, that perhaps your view of some of the children you help is perhaps wrong? They may simply choose not to retain or process the information you wish them to, because they are either not ready or because they simply don't want to. If you read 'Look me in the Eye', as I stated in the autism thread, you'll find that John didn't want to listen or learn in the same way that others did. Yes, he did eventually cotton on, but not until he was really ready to. It didn't stop him from having a highly successful career working for Pink Floyd and KISS, as their special effects man, who had amazing skills that stunned many of the other guys in the entourage...but as a child he was all but written off educationally. Many people learn 'differently'....that is all, but it does not make them lesser people.. |
|
09 Feb 10 - 04:07 PM (#2834404) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: Lizzie Cornish 1 "Thank you Lizzie - please stick to your 'beliefs', which apparently rely on one or two anecdotes as usual, but spare the the rest of us your continual proselytizing about some mythical rosy past that no one else recognizes. Personally, I prefer to stick to well established facts, proven studies or well founded theories before spouting my mouth off. I also choose not to employ the combination of overblown emotion and expletives that you utilize for your frequent and predictable obsessional uninformed opinions - such as the one theleveller succintly describes above." Oh, fer fuck's sake, Emma! DO put a sock in it, there's a good girl! STOP trying to tell me how to write, or what to write. I am a very emotional person (thank GOD!) and I swear (God let's me and he really doesn't mind)...but that does not make me a bad person. Get over it, please... Thank you. |
|
09 Feb 10 - 04:27 PM (#2834424) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: Emma B "Does it ever occur to you, Mrs. D, that perhaps your view of some of the children you help is perhaps wrong?" Obviously nothing of the sort ever occurs to you Lizzie! But then Mrs D is a professionally trained, experienced teacher who actually works with the children she describes so she obviously is not up to your beliefs! "but that does not make me a bad person. Get over it, please..." Lizzie show me anywhere I have described you as a 'bad' person - what you do write however is a load of either wilfully misinformed information, a parroting of others, or plain ignorance / misunderstanding of basic tenets and I have an abiding respect for veracity which, against all my better judgement, suckers me into responding to your recurrent posts. Get over yourself there's a good girl - and please try to post without having to resort to expletives. I thank you! |
|
09 Feb 10 - 04:30 PM (#2834427) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: Mrs.Duck No, Lizzie, it doesn't, but does it ever occur to you that you have no idea what you are talking about. You wouldn't recognise a well established fact if it bit you! |
|
09 Feb 10 - 05:23 PM (#2834499) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: Folkiedave Lizzie you tell someone that they don't know what they are talking about and excuse it by saying: STOP trying to tell me how to write, or what to write. I am a very emotional person (thank GOD!) It is little wonder that Show of Hands wrote a song about it. The words may be about bankers - but the title is about you. Have you not realised that yet? By the way there is no god. And it isn't us you should be apologising to it is your children who you are teaching to swear like that. Do they not follow your example? |
|
09 Feb 10 - 05:28 PM (#2834504) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: GUEST,999 The term 'special needs' refers to children who require special assistance in order to learn--that is, they need help. The term refers to kids with very low IQs (for lack of a better term) and children with extremely high IQs. They are sometimes called 'Gifted and Talented'. |
|
10 Feb 10 - 09:30 AM (#2834890) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: Folkiedave The term 'special needs' refers to children who require special assistance in order to learn--that is, they need help. It also refers to adults as well. |
|
10 Feb 10 - 09:58 AM (#2834927) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: Dave the Gnome Dave, you forgot the disclaimer. No reference to anyone on this site is implied or intended:-) I suppose I should not be surprised at how hot under the collar people get about labels. Look at the glut of 'what is folk music' threads to show that, and this is a far more serious topic. It is amazing though that, while everyone seems to agree that the welfare of anyone with special needs is paramount, so much vitriol can be spilled on the very people trying their best to satisfy those needs. You just couldn't make it up! DeG |
|
10 Feb 10 - 10:40 AM (#2834983) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: Folkiedave I might not have forgotten!! :-) |
|
10 Feb 10 - 09:31 PM (#2835677) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: GUEST,999 Yes, it refers to adults as well. In the context of my thinking while I wrote that post, children was who I was thinking about. Years ago I tried to persuade a school board to implement a program to 'help' Gifted and Talented children. The start-up funds for it required about $3,000 for the whole district. They refused because they couldn't find the bucks in their budget. They sit today with no program in place, despite that the law requires them to educate all children. |
|
11 Feb 10 - 12:58 PM (#2836285) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: paula t Nowadays we have to keep a "Gifted and Talented " register at school, and make detailed provision for such children. ( As we certainly should!).The only ridiculous thing is that we are supposed to have a certain percentage of our children on that register. How does that work then? |
|
11 Feb 10 - 01:09 PM (#2836295) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: SINSULL The "bible" of the mental health industry is being revised/updated. Asberger's Syndrome is no longer being listed separately from Autism. Instead it is being viewed as the higher end of the Autism Spectrum. Apparently it is creating a stir among "Aspies" who object to being lumped in with Autistic people. Interesting controversy. Some professionals are suggesting that this refusal to accept change is typical of autistics. |
|
11 Feb 10 - 01:38 PM (#2836326) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: Dave the Gnome So, changing your mind more often than your underwear is not usualy considered an autistic trait then? :-) Seriously though, I can see the objection - particularly from adults who have only just got used to having one condition! Maybe this is where a change of view is not for the best. Cheers DeG |
|
11 Feb 10 - 01:48 PM (#2836334) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: SINSULL I can too, Dave. But this is a medical text meant to guide professionals in a diagnosis. Popular media does not have to us the terminology. For example "Aspies" was never in the medical terminology. It is how people with Asberger's and those close to them as well as some of the media types refer to them. |
|
11 Feb 10 - 04:41 PM (#2836506) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: GUEST,999 "How does that work then?" Paula, when I asked the teaching staff at the school to help me find their G+T students, there was not one who did not give me their students who were in the honours bracket--and I know you're aware that they are not necessarily G+T. Part of the problem is actually recognizing who those students are. |
|
12 Feb 10 - 05:07 AM (#2836889) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: Geoff the Duck "How does that work then?" Basically it won't. It is based on the total lack of understanding Civil Servants and Politicians have of the Biological Science of Poupulation Statistics. If we take the whole population of the Nation it will contain all ability levels (or height range, or how fast they can run). Most people will fall within a particular range, with a few above or below. It may well be fair to say that people who fall above, or below these arbitrary points are high or low ability and need different systems appropriate to their conditions. The problem starts when someone invokes "STATISTICS" and says that in the population 2% are one grouping and 5% are a different category. The biologist would say that if you take a large enough, completely random, selection of people you will get a sub-population which mirrors the full one. In such a sub-population you would expect to see something resembling the 2% and 5% pattern seen in the original. The Politician on the other hand states that "In EVERY" group of people 5% will be category 1 and 2% will be category 2. In schools this is patently NOT TRUE. It only works with a RANDOM selection. The population within any one school is NOT random. Various social factors result in areas with a sub-population which tends towards the higher or lower end of the scale. School populations reflect this distortion. If you only make decisions based on a percentage rather than an actual ability it becomes a mockery. The bottom percentages in the school which excludes low ability may well be equivalent to an "average" ability in the "dump school". In some schools, the average ability is so low that children who need special help do not come in below the bottom % cut-off based on the averages for that school, and as such are deprived of the extra care they would have been given in a different school. It isn't a fair system. Quack! GtD. |
|
12 Feb 10 - 05:26 AM (#2836894) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: freda underhill So much about people's characteristics is unknown. and it's so hard for people to change their view, both people changing views about themselves, and about each other. An article in the paper today Genes, not emotions, may cause stuttering challenges the view that people stutter because they've been emotionally damaged during childhood. I think a large portion of people who don't do well at school could do much much better with earlier teaching and more creative approaches. Anyone who makes it into life with a good education and no empathy may have another disability that they, too, are totally unaware of, but which is so clear to others. I went to school with a boy who was very quiet, had few friends, and was generally considered to be a bit slow. I met him at our old school reunion, he is a social worker, and a fine and intelligent man. What Lizzie says, about the need for a change of view, and different approaches to learning, is very true. |
|
12 Feb 10 - 06:42 AM (#2836939) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: Lizzie Cornish 1 "An article in the paper today Genes, not emotions, may cause stuttering challenges the view that people stutter because they've been emotionally damaged during childhood." I stuttered *terribly* as a child, freda, as did my father. I grew up knowing a man who never stuttered though. At 19 he decided that if he didn't work out how to talk without a stutter, his chances of finding a lady would be slimmed down a bit. ;0) So he began to teach himself how to breathe. When I was a little girl he taught me how to do it too, and he'd sit me down in front of him patiently going through it all with me. He taught me which letters to avoid starting a sentence with, he taught me to take a short breath, just before I started to speak and he taught me to slow down, to stop gabbling. It took us a few years, but we got there, together. Now I have no stutter that people would notice, although the darn word 'medieval' still gets me to this day and I have to take that breath then let the word out slowly. My daughter started to stutter around the age of 4, but she grew out of it very fast. The nurse told me it was because her mind thought of the words faster than her mouth could get them out, so they'd get kind of 'backed up'...Not sure about that, but thankfully, she outgrew it...and my son has never stuttered at all. |
|
12 Feb 10 - 07:14 AM (#2836956) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: freda underhill that's an incredible prosess to go through, Lizzie and a great outcome. That man was very good to help you, and only someone who has been through the process could really understand. Strange that I happened to read that article today and use it as an analogy. I have a similar experience, of experiencing brain damage, and having to rebuild my memory so that i could function normally. this process took about three years, a short time comparatively, but it changed the way I experienced the world, that's for sure. |
|
12 Feb 10 - 07:17 AM (#2836959) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Oh...I didn't explain it very well....'that man' was my Dear Dad himself.. :0) I'm glad you fought the battle, and won, freda. Much love. x |
|
12 Feb 10 - 07:23 AM (#2836963) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: freda underhill and to you, Lizzie x |
|
13 Feb 10 - 11:55 AM (#2838187) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: Dave the Gnome it's so hard for people to change their view I'm not at all sure that is true, Freda. I have changed views on many things over the years. As we mature and assimilate more information we begin to realise that the hard and fast views we held in our youth were not, perhaps, as true as we originaly thought. It is nothing to do with 'selling out' but as we become more empathitic to others we begin to realise that th eother persons view is as valid as our own, whether we think it right or not. It is only a fool who would believe that their views, tastes or feeings were any better or worse than anyone else's. With this in mind and remembering that views are based upon what people believe to be the truth we must remember that something is only true until another truth replaces it! Views can and do change regularly and it is not as hard as I think you are suggesting. There are exeptions of course but those who will not adapt at all will only fool themselves for a while. My favourite 'fortune cookie', out of a computer login, that I still use on a technical forum, is 'Knowledge speaks. Wisdom listens.':-) Cheers DeG |
|
13 Feb 10 - 12:11 PM (#2838200) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: paula t Geoff the Duck and Guest 999, Yes, we always run into problems when we try to treat children as numbers rather than statistics. I remember a statistician tears ago told me a "story" which demonstrates this quite well: A group of scientists took a frog and made a loud noise behind it. They measured how far it jumped. They removed one of its legs, made that noise again and measured how far it jumped. They lft it with no legs and made the noise. It didn't move. From their ststistics they concluded that if you remove a frog's legs it goes deaf..... |
|
13 Feb 10 - 12:59 PM (#2838255) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: Dave the Gnome And statistics conclusively prove that half the people in the world are below average intellegence... |
|
13 Feb 10 - 01:53 PM (#2838314) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: paula t Ha! Like it!Don't like my spelling on my previous posting though. I was watching the rugby. Sorry! |
|
13 Feb 10 - 02:25 PM (#2838338) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: Nigel Parsons And statistics conclusively prove that half the people in the world are below average intellegence... I'm not sure I would accept that one at face value! However... The majority of people in the world have an above average number of legs (eyes/hands/ etc.,) |
|
14 Feb 10 - 06:29 AM (#2838767) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: Dave the Gnome You are quit eright of course, Nigel - It all depends which average you ar eusing. By pure arithmetic mean it would depend on whether the majority were in the upper or lower spectrum. If we use a weighted average it is more likely to be true. But it looses some of it's punch that way. I like yours though:-) Cheers DeG |
|
14 Feb 10 - 06:39 AM (#2838771) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: Richard Bridge DeG - you mean "median". Apart from that I am wholly out of this pile of claptrap |
|
14 Feb 10 - 06:57 AM (#2838784) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: Dave the Gnome Probably, Richard, but I am more of an extra large than a median myself... |
|
15 Feb 10 - 02:43 AM (#2839534) Subject: RE: BS: A Change of View From: freda underhill re change and 'Knowledge speaks. Wisdom listens.' you're right of course Dave. freda |