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09 Apr 10 - 07:16 AM (#2882719) Subject: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: Raggytash Hi All I have spoken to Brian Clarkson, Skipper/Owner of the Esk Belle and "chartered" the boat for the now annual trip to Staithes during Folk Week. We are to sail to Staithes (weather permitting) on Tuesday 24th August, boarding at 3.30, sailing at 3.45. We should arrive in Staithes at about 5pm for an hour ashore, return sailing leaving Staithes at 6pm arriving Whitby about 7pm. Singing and playing all the way, and hopefully raising a bob or two for the Runswick Bay Rescue Boat. As always tickets are limited to a maximum of 80 so the earlier you put your name down the better. Cheers Raggy |
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09 Apr 10 - 07:26 AM (#2882725) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: The Smiler And the cost Raggy? |
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09 Apr 10 - 07:34 AM (#2882729) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: Raggytash Last year it was £10, don't think it will alter from that this year |
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09 Apr 10 - 08:18 AM (#2882766) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: The Smiler OK might have some people who would be interested. Will get info to you, if so. Are you planning to charge a £1 to use the toilet, like Ryanair :-) |
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09 Apr 10 - 08:56 AM (#2882791) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: Raggytash Great idea, I'll put it to the skipper, every £1 going to the rescue boat, though knowing most of the folkies they'll just pee over the side, and thats just the ladies ! |
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09 Apr 10 - 10:19 AM (#2882856) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: Tig Save me 4 tickets please Raggy. You will need every £1 you have when you are mugged for the raffle and to stop you been thrown overboard by the pirates. I noticed an increase in their number last year and am certain they are plotting.... Remember this year we are trying for a new boat as well as the running cost and new equipment. Hugs xxx |
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03 May 10 - 12:52 AM (#2898968) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: Raggytash Thought it may be time to refresh this |
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03 May 10 - 02:23 AM (#2898986) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: Wheatman Making my first trip to Whitby this year since the 2nd festival. I like the idea of the Boat trip, sign me up to two tickets. Where do we board? |
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03 May 10 - 03:18 AM (#2898997) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: Raggytash Wheatman the boat leaves from the Old Brewery Steps, you can see them from the bridge in the centre of town, nearer the time I'll make sure we can meet up before sailing so you can get the tickets, however it only goes if the weather is suitable. Cheers |
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22 May 10 - 03:34 AM (#2911829) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: GUEST refresh |
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22 May 10 - 10:24 AM (#2911947) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: Arthur_itus Just listening to this song and thought how appropriate it was for this thread. Fisher Lad Of Whitby |
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22 May 10 - 08:34 PM (#2912268) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: Susan of DT Where are the old brewery steps? Which side of the river? Near the ocean end or the inland end? We are very likely interested. |
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23 May 10 - 02:04 AM (#2912364) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: GUEST Hi Susan The Brewery steps are on the west side of town, about a 100 yards from the swing bridge, if you have noticed, on your visits to Whitby, the big yellow tourist boat that takes people for trip around the bay, well thats the Esk Belle. Cheers |
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23 May 10 - 08:45 AM (#2912464) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: gnomad If you stand on the swing bridge (seaward side) and look down the harbour you will see Brewery Steps & the boarding pontoon about 100 yards away on the left-hand side of the harbour. The lifeboat station is directly across the harbour from the boarding point, and makes a good reference point if the Belle is not at home when you look. Whitby Coastal Cruises website is currently being redesigned so is not very informative today, but it has had a decent map in its previous incarnations, so I expect it will shortly do so again. There is at least a picture of the boat, so those who don't know it will know which vessel they are looking for. I'm not expecting to work that day, but plans change regularly, so I may or may not be with you all, hope you get the right weather and have a great time. |
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30 May 10 - 06:41 PM (#2917404) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: Jack Campin Put me down for two tickets. |
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28 Jun 10 - 11:12 AM (#2936015) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: GUEST,Tig |
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01 Jul 10 - 12:54 PM (#2937977) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: GUEST refresh |
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01 Jul 10 - 01:08 PM (#2937990) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: My guru always said Are there any tickets left? If so, could we reserve 2 please??? Hil |
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01 Jul 10 - 08:53 PM (#2938243) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: Soldier boy Does that include Max, My guru always said? |
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02 Jul 10 - 04:02 AM (#2938334) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: My guru always said Chris, without seeing the program I'm not sure about Max, I'm consulting!! Richard & I definitely want to join the fundraiser though!!! |
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02 Jul 10 - 12:23 PM (#2938571) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: Susan of DT Have you saved us a pair? I was not quite definite in my statement above. We do want to come. |
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03 Jul 10 - 02:14 AM (#2938995) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: Raggytash My Guru/Susan tickets are earmarked for all four with another pending for Max cheers raggy |
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08 Jul 10 - 09:57 AM (#2941736) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: Raggytash Hi All, tickets for the trip to Staithes aboard the Esk Belle are rapidly being allocated, as I previously mentioned we are limited to 80 people aboard, so if you do fancy a trip, reserving a ticket is highly recommended. Cheers Nick |
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22 Jul 10 - 05:17 AM (#2949594) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: My guru always said Oh, I am Sooooo looking forward to this! Do people bring raffle prizes? |
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22 Jul 10 - 05:38 AM (#2949606) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: Raggytash Hi Any donation of prizes would be wonderful thanks Nick |
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23 Jul 10 - 04:16 AM (#2950450) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: Wheatman Just got back from Rothbury, this could be THE event of the festival for me. Do I have to learn some sea songs? |
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23 Jul 10 - 09:11 AM (#2950598) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: Raggytash Although nothing is compulsory I think songs of the sea would be most apt, be they shanties or songs of fishing and trawling or any other maritime activity. Fortunately there is a bar on board so we can wet our whistles cheers |
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23 Jul 10 - 10:02 AM (#2950628) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: Mick Tems Dawnswyr Aberesc (translated, that's the Welsh Dancers from the mouth of the Esk!) have got a day off on Tuesday, so please put us down. Mick Tems and Olly Price PS: I notice Jack's requested two tickets - how are you, Jack? For easy recognition: I'll be wearing my Connemara cap and Olly will be wearing her spectacles! |
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23 Jul 10 - 07:25 PM (#2951035) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: brid widder Any room for a little one? |
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23 Jul 10 - 08:21 PM (#2951066) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: Jack Campin I don't actually know what a Connemara cap looks like - I will probably be wearing a non-tartan kilt and a very strange shirt. I look very much like the pictures on my website. |
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24 Jul 10 - 08:41 AM (#2951301) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: Mick Tems Whoops, sorry - I meant my Donegal cap, but I was in rush to go out so the error went unnoticed. It's a tweed cap, with black, red, blue, grey and brown devided into eight colours. I brought it at Quills' chain of shops in Glengariff, County Cork, this year, when we made our annual pilgrimage to The Gathering traditional festival. My stick makes me easy to spot! |
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25 Jul 10 - 05:26 AM (#2951750) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: Red and White Rabbit as per usual working at this time Raggy but sing a song and have a pint for me Hope you raise lots of cash Sue |
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25 Jul 10 - 01:25 PM (#2951924) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: gnomad Following my post of May 23rd I see the WCC website is still being updated, and no map showing yet so here is a link to a Google map. If you zoom into the harbour area just above the bridge you can see a little wiggle in the road just below where it says "The Dracula Experience", that is where you are heading. Right now the bridge is broken in the "open to river traffic, but not to vehicles or pedestrians" position, and has been so for 5 days. We have no indication when repairs will be completed, but Folk Week plus Regatta without a bridge is too horrid to be contemplated. So good thoughts please for the engineers, I'll advise further developments as they occur. |
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25 Jul 10 - 02:20 PM (#2951960) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: Susan of DT Thank you. I thought someone said it was on the abbey side of the river. That will definitely help if the bridge is still out. We will be coming from the ballad session at the Conservative Club that ends at 3 pm, which would be exciting to get there by 3:30 if the bridge were out. |
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28 Jul 10 - 06:21 PM (#2954083) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: Malc Bedworth Hi Raggytash, Can you put us down for three please - ta very much! |
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29 Jul 10 - 01:50 PM (#2954607) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: Noreen And one for me, pretty please, Nick! Never sailed to Staithes, but spent 2 weeks there with the school, when I was 9 or 10 (not that long ago, then!) N |
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29 Jul 10 - 02:23 PM (#2954618) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: Amos Ballad of the Esk Belle |
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30 Jul 10 - 07:46 PM (#2955458) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: Noreen Hey- good song, Amos! |
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01 Aug 10 - 05:19 PM (#2956316) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: brid widder How are the bookings going Nick...am I on? |
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02 Aug 10 - 04:14 AM (#2956532) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: Raggytash Hi Janet, yes you are booked on, not many places left now, what about Stuart? |
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02 Aug 10 - 10:30 AM (#2956684) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: Raggytash Just in case no one has picked up from other threads, the bridge is now working again, so no problems getting across river, apart from the usual ones of too many pedestrians and too much traffic! (Wombat using Raggtash's cookie) |
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02 Aug 10 - 05:57 PM (#2956975) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: Cats Is there still one ticket left? If so, pretty please.. and I promise not to be too sea sick! |
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04 Aug 10 - 05:34 AM (#2957857) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: mandomad Just to confirm our verbal booking with Christine, we'd love to join the crew, mandomad and Jingle P.s. Are we taking instruments, Nick? |
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04 Aug 10 - 07:15 AM (#2957887) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: GUEST,old git Nick/Chris Haven't asked Jim yet..but I'm sure he'll be up for it..so can you put us down for 2 tickets please. geoof t |
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04 Aug 10 - 10:47 AM (#2957981) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: brid widder Ta Nick... Stewart has a pub to run so sadly won't be joining us until later in the week...hopefully for thursday at least...thats his birthday! |
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04 Aug 10 - 07:13 PM (#2958415) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: GUEST,Tig Was talking to Raggytash tonight. Seems the trip is well and truly going to be FULL. Be kind to him. If you are a singer and prepared to have a go let him know (preferably on here or in advance) He can't be expected to remember everything from year to year and doesn't want to miss anyone who is brave enough. And NO he hasn't bribed me to put this on instead of singing ;-0 |
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04 Aug 10 - 07:40 PM (#2958440) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: Noreen I'm happy to sing if I have got a place. |
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05 Aug 10 - 07:05 AM (#2958675) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: Raggytash Sorry folks, all tickets are now allocated, it may be that some people do not turn up on the day, it has happened before so we may be able to get a few people on at the last minute. Thank you for all your support cheers raggytash |
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05 Aug 10 - 11:26 AM (#2958812) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: GUEST,old git did Jim and I make it in time??? geoff |
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05 Aug 10 - 06:15 PM (#2959039) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: GUEST,Tig Sorry, didn't I make it clear, I meant those of us who already had reserved tickets! That way Raggy has a list of who to erm.... persuade(?) before starting on reluctant ones. Not long now :-))) |
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10 Aug 10 - 11:55 AM (#2962080) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: Raggytash Hi Geoff, had to check before I replied, yes you and Jim have tickets allocated. A plea to the rest of the good people who ahve tickets allocated, could you please let me know if you are singists or not, just so i have an idea of how many singers we've got, it has been known to have three sessions going, one in the saloon (that's where I'll be cos thats where the bar is) one on the aft deck and one on the upper deck. Only two weeks to go !! Cheers |
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10 Aug 10 - 07:50 PM (#2962481) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: Cats I'm on your reserve list and am a singist |
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10 Aug 10 - 08:10 PM (#2962488) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: Jack Campin Is there room for people to dance on the boat? |
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11 Aug 10 - 02:33 AM (#2962600) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: Wheatman I am a singist and Christine provides a good chorus |
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11 Aug 10 - 03:15 AM (#2962607) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: gnomad Room for a little gentle smooching maybe, Jack, but there really isn't space for anything resembling proper dancing (solo clog numbers perhaps excepted). The motion might also be a problem unless it is a very calm day. |
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11 Aug 10 - 06:11 AM (#2962685) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: Raggytash Motion should not be a problem, working on the basis that dancers drink like fish they won't know if their on a boat or just slightly more tipsy than usual |
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11 Aug 10 - 06:49 AM (#2962708) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: Wheatman I've danced rapper on the ferry from Felixtowe to Harwich but that was over 30 years ago and I don't intend starting again. It's the knees ye nar. |
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11 Aug 10 - 06:55 AM (#2962713) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: Jack Campin Somebody must know the Sailor's Hornpipe? (not me, for sure). |
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11 Aug 10 - 07:04 AM (#2962719) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: Jack Campin Should have added - I'm flexible but will probably be an instrumentalist for the trip. Marion will be an audience unless she can dance. |
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11 Aug 10 - 09:49 PM (#2963347) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: gnomad On the "should have added" front I should perhaps say that I have danced cotswold morris and assorted "ceilidh" stuff both on and off ferries, also border- and clog- morris, Yorkshire longsword and just a bit of rapper. I am also well-acquainted with the boat in question, which is where I work. Having been part of a sword set which headed swiftly towards the rails when a much larger boat leaned over a bit I would honestly and sincerely advise that dancing is not a good plan. |
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14 Aug 10 - 08:25 AM (#2965007) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: Malc Bedworth Hi Raggytash - I'm a singist in fact all three of us are (but one's a bit shy sometiimes!) Really looking forward to it as always! |
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18 Aug 10 - 02:12 PM (#2968005) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: John J Any space for me and t'other half? We can only manage to be in Whitby Tuesday to Thursday and it would be a shame to miss out! JJ |
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18 Aug 10 - 06:15 PM (#2968164) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: Herga Kitty John J - according to Raggy's 5 August post it will depend on whether someone else has cancelled! But if you're in Whitby from Tuesday to Thursday you should at least be able to make the Mudgather in the Board on Wednesday afternoon! And the shanties and bad shirts sesion in the Endeavour Wednesday lunchtime... Kitty |
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18 Aug 10 - 06:23 PM (#2968179) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: Jack Campin the shanties and bad shirts sesion in the Endeavour Wednesday lunchtime Explain the thinking behind this? I don't normally sing shanties but I think I have an item that would win any bad-shirt contest hands down. |
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18 Aug 10 - 06:32 PM (#2968191) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: Herga Kitty Jack Campin Jim Mageean and (now, for several years as successor to Rod Shearman) Graeme Knights run maritime singarounds at the Endeavour, 1-3pm from Sunday onwards, and collect for the Whitby lifeboat, rather than for the festival (with the festival's agreement). The themes are sufficiently broadly defined to allow a lot of flexibility in choice of song. But Wednesday is dedicated to singing shanties. And to selecting the person who must continue to wear the same shirt for the rest of the day, and carry on collecting funds for the Whitby lifeboat for the year until the next festival. I "won" in 2004. Kitty |
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18 Aug 10 - 06:56 PM (#2968216) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: John J Thanks Kitty. We may just drive up to Staithes and meet up for a sing in the pub. John |
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19 Aug 10 - 12:54 AM (#2968365) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: GUEST Hi John J, just a word to the wise, we are only ashore for one hour, approx 5 till 6 pm, in that time about 80 people will try and get served in the 2 pubs and have a very brief sing, and get back to the boat for the return to Whitby. I don't want to put you off but I don't want you to be disappointed either as we pile in and pile out in double quick fashion. The forecast for the sea state for Tuesday is looking good at the moment |
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19 Aug 10 - 04:39 AM (#2968435) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: John J Thanks for that Guest, we've been on the boat trip before. Unfortunately we only decided we could manage a couple of days at WFW yesterday otherwise we would have been more organised! Thanks for your reply, JJ |
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24 Aug 10 - 05:15 AM (#2971610) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: GUEST,Raggytash Been told it will be a bit "bumpy" this afternoon, if you're not a good sailor you may want to reconsider, the foredeck of the Esk Belle will be out of bounds as it will get very wet up forward ! Cheers Raggy |
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24 Aug 10 - 07:18 AM (#2971656) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: GUEST,slomo Guest, please don't dissuade anyone from visiting my beautiful village, even if only for a very short time - believe me it's more than worth a visit. John J, the Men of Staithes will be in the Royal George to sing a couple for the intrepid sailors as they queue for their pints (or their Alka-Seltzers - it looks like being a bit breezy and choppy!). We will probably stay on for a bit of a sing after the boat has left, so come and join us. |
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24 Aug 10 - 07:27 AM (#2971661) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: GUEST,slomo Whoops, don't know what happened there. Just to add, landlord Dom at the Royal George is geared up for the visit to the extent of scheduling an extra member of staff, so hopefully getting served should be fairly painless. |
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24 Aug 10 - 08:25 AM (#2971693) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: GUEST,John J...cookieless We've decided to give it a miss cos of the dreadful weather, have a great time! JJ |
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24 Aug 10 - 04:42 PM (#2972038) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: gnomad Well, we made it there & back OK. A couple of lively moments en route didn't dismay us. The weather wasn't at its kindest, but it was just do-able. We even got a little demo from the Runswick Bay Rescue Boat as we passed the bay on the outward leg. I was delighted to meet Max in particular, and one or two others. The singing was also most welcome. I wonder whether the tides will favour another trip next year, have to wait until the new tide tables get published. Big vote of thanks to the organisers, Raggy 'n' Wombat. |
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24 Aug 10 - 05:00 PM (#2972048) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: GUEST,slomo Glad you all got back safely. We enjoyed the all too brief sing in the Royal George. By the way, if anyone finds they have lost the keys to their guest house, give the pub a ring on 01947 841432. Some were icked u after you had sailed, and were left behind the bar. |
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25 Aug 10 - 02:20 AM (#2972276) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: GUEST,Raggytash Well what a good do, thanks to all who contributed, we managed to raise £195 for the Rescue Boat, this is in addition to the Glaisdale trip and a whip round in the Friendship on Sunday, running total this week £365. This is starting to nudge us towards £2000 for the year which is about 25% of their annual running costs. Thanks again to all who have helped. Raggytash |
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30 Aug 10 - 06:15 AM (#2975738) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: My guru always said Just starting to catch up after passing Max across to South Wales. Thanks for the wonderful trip and all your hard work Nick & Christine. Well done for raising money for such a worthy cause, and thanks too, to the lifeboat members who surprised us with such a good show!!! Wonderful!!! |
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30 Aug 10 - 07:45 AM (#2975782) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: Raggytash Hi Hils, I'm pleased that you enjoyed the trip up to Staithes, I've had nothing but positive feedback. The crew were, I thought, brilliant and the display of the Rescue Boat fantastic, that is what all these lovely people support by donating to the fund, without their continued support the boat would not be able to run. As it happens when they were going back to Runswick they got a shout that a yacht was drifting onto rocks, given the coastline there and the state of the weather a potentially serious situation was avoided when the crew towed the yacht off. Another good result for all concerned and it is with the help of you guys that it was possible. I was thinking of trying the thank everybody personally but thought that I may miss someone,needless to say I didn't want to run the risk of that. If skipper,tides and weather permit we will do the same next year. If anyone would like to become a friend of Runswick Bay Rescue Boat they do have a subscription available details can be found on their website www.runswickrescue.org.uk. and there is also a fund raising page that people can create to help their efforts. Cheers |
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30 Aug 10 - 08:08 AM (#2975787) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: Charley Noble Certainly hope there was some appropriate and inappropriate singing. Cheerily, Charley Noble, who will be missing the boat by about two weeks! |
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30 Aug 10 - 12:18 PM (#2975953) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: Cats What a wonderful trip it was... and I wasn'r ill at all [could be somethuing to do with the tot in the cod and lobster!] please put me down for next year. a huge THANK YOU to nick and chris for organising it Brilliant display by the rescue boat and well done to them... |
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30 Aug 10 - 11:31 PM (#2976422) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: open mike glad the rescue boat did not have to go and fetch you! I dream of a UK boat trip...perhaps a canal trip, as that should avoid the rollicking waves and salt spray..or as Tom Lewis said about one canal trip: "No one died!" |
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07 Sep 10 - 07:38 AM (#2981490) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: Raggytash some nice person has posted a brief clip of the Rescue Boat approaching the Esk Belle on you tube, just type Esk Belle into the You Tube search. |
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07 Sep 10 - 10:28 AM (#2981565) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: Les from Hull I had a look and I found this one. I'm not sure that the Farewell Shanty is quite appropriate under these circumstances! |
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07 Sep 10 - 10:35 AM (#2981569) Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Boat Staithes Trip From: Les from Hull Of course the one that Raggy was referring to was this 'un. |