ADD: One for Rook, one for crow (Guist Ploughman)

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ADD: One for Rook, one for crow (Guist Ploughman)

19 Apr 10 - 02:38 PM (#2889978)
Subject: Lyr Req: One for the Rook, one for the crow
From: MuddleC

Howdy surfers!
Heard a song sang down at the Crediton Folk Fest this weekend just gone and I wannit!

Chorus goes:
One for the Rook, one for the Crow, One to whither, one to grow....

over to you sluthes, sloths and fonts of knowlege..the game is afoot!

19 Apr 10 - 02:44 PM (#2889986)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: One for the Rook, one for the crow
From: MuddleC

-might be called 'Four seeds in a row'

19 Apr 10 - 03:01 PM (#2889997)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: One for the Rook, one for the crow
From: peregrina

The phrase is derived from an old widely disseminated planting rhyme.

I've seen a version in George Ewart Evans' book Ask the Men who Cut the Hay (where it's said of 'corn', ie wheat to Americans).

There's a version on an American seed catalog website where it's called a corn-planting (ie maize-planting to UK-ians) rhyme:

"One for the cutworm, one for the crow, one to rot, and one to grow"

...and no doubt many others. The hard life of knowing you couldn't eat, or use as feed, the seeds what you planted, but that pests would.

19 Apr 10 - 03:10 PM (#2890005)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: One for the Rook, one for the crow
From: peregrina

here

    How to sow Beans. 'One for the mouse, One for the crow, One to rot, One to grow.'
    [1850 Notes & Queries 1st Ser. II. 515]

    'Kernels,' said Pa. 'Four kernels. ‥One for the blackbird, One for the crow, And that will leave Just two to grow.'
    [1941 L. I. Wilder Little Town on Prairie ii.]

    Careful farmers‥sow their seed broadcast, saying: One for wind and one for crow One to die and one to grow.
    [1961 N. Lofts House at Old Vine i. 34]

19 Apr 10 - 03:29 PM (#2890021)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: One for the Rook, one for the crow
From: peregrina

refresh--yes, OP, I realize you wanted to know the song with those words--I know of it, but couldn't find it on my first search. Maybe someone else will know it.

19 Apr 10 - 04:45 PM (#2890085)
Subject: Lyr Add: THE GUIST PLOUGHMAN (Mike Barber)
From: Paul Davenport

The song is called, 'The Guist Ploughman' by Mike Barber of Fakenham, Norfolk.
We recorded it on our album, 'Songbooks' HATRACD02 in 2008. Great song and one that deserves a lot of singing.

THE GUIST PLOUGHMAN
(Mike Barber © 2003)

Grandfather was a teamsman true and bold
Loved his horses more than gold
He would tend them night and day
For the sake of the harvest he would say

        One for the rook, one for the crow
        One to die and one to grow
        One for the rook, one for the crow
        One to die and one to grow

When Martinmas comes the year turns round
Time to till the stubbled ground
He could plough an acre in a day
But he'd walk eleven miles and say

When winter's o'er it's harrowing time
Break the clods down nice and fine
Make a bed for the seed to grow
And a mawkin stands to scare the crow

There's a boy who walks around the field
Turn the rattle, increase the yield
If we catch him sleeping through the day
Twist his lug and dock his pay

Now the corn is ripe for the harvest mow
Round with the reaper binder go
Sails set tight the sheaves to bind
Stook them up the ears to dry

The stack's growing high all in the yard
Carting always seems damned hard
Keep them corners tight and square
So it stands till the old drum gets round here

The thresher is driven by steam this year
Plenty of dust so bring on the beer
Corn's in the sack all to be ground
And once more the year turns round

        Here's one for the rook, one for the crow
        Success to the seed that lived to grow

We'll be around at a number of festivals through the year and would be happy to sing it to your hearts content. Visit our website for gig list
http://www.hallamtrads.co.uk
good singing
Paul

19 Apr 10 - 06:26 PM (#2890158)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: One for the Rook, one for the crow
From: Herga Kitty

Sue the Borderer sings it (and was at the Mudgather at Crediton), and so do Capstan Full Strength (who sang it at the Banbury Song & Ale the previous weekend). And also Craig, Morgan, Robson, who sang it when they guested at Herga last month - I had a little discussion with Carolyn at the interval on the subject of singing parents who are also now known as the parents of famous singing children (Damien, in Mike's case, and the Tabbush sisters in Carolyn's case).

Kitty

19 Apr 10 - 06:57 PM (#2890173)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: One for the Rook, one for the crow
From: Snuffy

It was Sue the Borderer who sang it at the Mudgather. I know, 'cos I was there.

Try a PM to her for the words.

19 Apr 10 - 07:54 PM (#2890232)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: One for the Rook, one for the crow
From: MuddleC

That's right, it was Sue...I was too busy listening to the song to take notes!!! and she wizzed away early to boot!

20 Apr 10 - 02:38 AM (#2890426)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: One for the Rook, one for the crow
From: Herga Kitty

Snuffy - Paul posted the words, above....

Kitty

20 Apr 10 - 03:07 AM (#2890429)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: One for the Rook, one for the crow
From: peregrina

I think I have heard another song that also uses a version of this saying for the chorus--any one know it?

22 Apr 10 - 10:04 PM (#2892473)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: One for the Rook, one for the crow
From: Jim Dixon

A few more:

From Documents of the Assembly of the State of New York, Volume 11, 1874, page 299:

The number of kernels in a hill may be designated thus:

Monthly Packet of Evening Readings, Volume 19, (London: Mozley and Smith, 1875), page 213:

—and the rule for sowing is,

Annual Report of the Secretary of the State Board of Agriculture ..., Volume 19 (Lansing: State of Michigan, 1880), page 148:

I do not believe in the old rhyme—

Work and Leisure: The Englishwoman's Advertiser, Reporter and Gazette, Vol. 7 (London: Hatchards, 1882), page 211:

The old farming adage—

is true of fruits as well as of seeds.

Gardeners' Chronicle, Vol. 8 (London: Haymarket Pub., 1890), page 686

There is an old country saying—

24 Apr 10 - 06:30 PM (#2893656)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: One for the Rook, one for the crow
From: Sue the Borderer

Hi MuddleC
Yes, it was me singing The Guist Ploughman at Crediton.
The song grabbed me in exactly the same way when I first hear Paul and Liz Davenport sing it. I wouldn't let them leave the building until they'd sold me their CD.
I sing the words much as Paul has written them out above, though I realised recently that Mike Barber actually sings Michaelmas (rather than Martinmas)so I've changed to that.
I had to rush off on Sunday cos I was running some morris at the Ring o' Bells....
Sue

24 Apr 10 - 07:30 PM (#2893697)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: One for the Rook, one for the crow
From: Leadfingers

When the query was first posted , I was wracking my tiny brain trying to remember where I had heard it recently ! Damien Barber at Maidenhead of course ! And what anexcellent evening it was !

25 Apr 10 - 08:47 AM (#2893944)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: One for the Rook, one for the crow
From: Folkiedave

Mike is Damien's father. Craig Morgan Rbbson also perform it. It is on their latest CD Hummingbird's Feather (Reiver REcords RVRCD10) They add Mike's grandfather was a teamsman at Guist in Norfolk, hence the title.

25 Apr 10 - 10:50 AM (#2893986)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: One for the Rook, one for the crow
From: GUEST,JimP

This line was used on "I Say No" on the In Harmony's Way CD. I'm sorry, but I don't remember who sang lead on this one, possibly Kim Hughes? Anyway, from the IHW website:

I Say No

Preacher man wanna save my soul an' a
He say "Hellfire!", I say "No," an' a
He say "Give!" an' a I say "Go!" an' a
He say "Hurry-up!" an' a I say "No," an' a

How somebody gonna weight down me? an' a (4 times)

Auction man in a 'bacca row an' a
He say high an' a I say low an' a
He say three an' a I say fo' an' a
He say two an' a I say no an' a

Purty woman make you walk the flo' make you
Beg fo' mercy make you, beg fo' mo' an' a
She say "Come on Daddy" I say "Go!" an' a
She say "Please?" an' a I say no an' a

Plantin' time an' a water's low an' a
They say "Give it up" an' a I say "No, I'll plant
One fo' de cutworm an' a one fo' de crow an' a
One fo' de squirrell an' a one gon' grow!" an' a

Weight down, weight down a-han-a (3 times)
Weight down me, an' a
How somebody gonna weight down me? an' a
How somebody gonna weight down me?

Listen:

http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/inharmonysway

25 Apr 10 - 11:00 AM (#2893993)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: One for the Rook, one for the crow
From: Paul Davenport

The reason we sing 'Martinmas' instead of 'Michaelmas' is a cultural thing. Where we come from, a little further north than Mike, the hirings at Martinmas were the commencement of the early ploughing. The tradition of plough-lads dancing in the villages of East Yorkshire also occurred at this feast. (There's nothing in the song that's overtly regional apart from the title) We altered the word because it feels more 'comfortable'.
Thanks for singing it to such an appreciative crowd Sue, the song deserves all the support it can get.

25 Apr 10 - 07:14 PM (#2894259)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: One for the Rook, one for the crow
From: Mr Fox

From: peregrina
Date: 20 Apr 10 - 03:07 AM

I think I have heard another song that also uses a version of this saying for the chorus--any one know it?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There was a song on Carolanne Pegg's one and only solo album that had the chorus

One for the mouse, one for the crow
One for to rot and one for to grow

I have the CD somewhere and can look up the verses if you wish, Peregrina.

26 Apr 10 - 02:23 AM (#2894408)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: One for the Rook, one for the crow
From: GUEST,Jon Bartlett

I first heard it from Bernard Miles, a comedy (rural character) EP called "Over the gate", c. 1961.

Jon Bartlett

26 Apr 10 - 02:55 AM (#2894415)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: One for the Rook, one for the crow
From: Hamish

Fab song which I heard at Banbury a couple of weeks ago and immediately put high on the must-learn list. And now with the words (thank you, Paul!) there's no excuse! Except... there are a lot of words, aren't there?

26 Apr 10 - 03:18 AM (#2894421)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: One for the Rook, one for the crow
From: peregrina

Mr Fox, thanks, yes, I'd be very interested--and that makes me think now that there are three or more songs that use a version of these lines.

26 Apr 10 - 10:01 AM (#2894572)
Subject: RE: Req: One for Rook, one for crow (Guist Ploughman)
From: GUEST,vectis

Is there a recording or midi out there? I know the chorus but have forgotton the tune for the blooming verse.

26 Apr 10 - 03:16 PM (#2894756)
Subject: RE: Req: One for Rook, one for crow (Guist Ploughman)
From: Mr Fox

Peregrina - Found it! (Didn't take me as long as I expected!) Here goes -

Mouse and the Crow
Carolanne Pegg

One for the mouse and one for the crow,
One for to rot and one for to grow
Big fat bird flying high
I'll get there by and by.

Little old lady, broom nearby,
Keeping cobwebs away from her eye,
But the cat's got the bacon, rat's got the rind,
I'll stay blind if you don't mind.

Tonight we'll dance, tonight we'll sing,
Tonight we'll do most anything.
So clap those hands, shake those bones,
Tap those toes, I'm coming home.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
The tune is an odd mix of folk and country (kind of square and morris dance)with a jig to close.

29 Apr 10 - 07:38 PM (#2896957)
Subject: RE: Req: One for Rook, one for crow (Guist Ploughman)
From: Sue the Borderer

Thanks for the info about Martinmas/Michaelmas, Paul. Maybe, since I dance with Rattlejag Morris from your part of the country (even though I live in Devon) I will revert to singing Martinmas.

Sue

30 Apr 10 - 02:38 PM (#2897439)
Subject: RE: One for Rook, One for Crow-chorus songs
From: peregrina

Thanks very much Mr. Fox, for posting Carolanne Pegg's song that uses this refrain. A good one.

I'm curious about the tune now...and how many more songs will turn up that use this chorus...

05 May 12 - 09:37 AM (#3347136)
Subject: RE: Req: One for Rook, one for crow (Guist Ploughman)
From: GUEST

Just heard it as we walked through the EEL FAIR at Ely sung by a group. People were humming it along the road as we walked away.

19 Mar 19 - 06:39 PM (#3983209)
Subject: RE: Req: One for Rook, one for crow (Guist Ploughman)
From: GUEST

The rhyme is older than anyone here has suggested; in the early 18th century Virginia it was: 'One for the Blackbird, one for the Crow, one for the Cutworm, and one to grow'. I surmise it predates the colonial period here, and that it is fairly ancient.

12 Jul 20 - 10:25 AM (#4063844)
Subject: RE: Req: One for Rook, one for crow (Guist Ploughman)
From: quantock

I first heard Sue the Borderer sing this in the Middle Bar at Sidmouth a few years ago. I loved it, partly because it reminded of the rhyme my mother used to say: "One for the rook, one for the crow, one to rot and one to grow".

I'm now in the process of learning the song, but there's one bit I'm curious about at the end of the 2nd verse: "He could plough and acre in a day, but he'd walk eleven miles and say...". Does anyone know the significance of him walking eleven miles?

12 Jul 20 - 10:39 AM (#4063848)
Subject: RE: Req: One for Rook, one for crow (Guist Ploughman)
From: cnd

11 miles is just typical singing exaggeration. The number eleven (probably) has the right number of syllables to fit the rhyme scheme and is a reasonable yet long distance to walk each day.

While some people who are in very good shape can walk 20+ miles a day (even through rugged terrain), most people have there upper limits around 10-15, and doing this every day takes its toll on your average person.

12 Jul 20 - 03:34 PM (#4063882)
Subject: RE: Req: One for Rook, one for crow (Guist Ploughman)
From: Howard Jones

An acre can of course be any shape, but traditionally was 1 furlong by 1 chain (660 ft x 66 ft). However a furrow was maybe 9 inches wide, so that would mean 88 times up and down the field. That gives you your 11 miles, and that's without walking to and from work from home, and from the farm to the fields and back. They were hard old boys.

12 Jul 20 - 05:01 PM (#4063902)
Subject: RE: Req: One for Rook, one for crow (Guist Ploughman)
From: JeffB

Does anyone know what the 'old drum' was? Was it a rope which went around the stack?

28 Dec 20 - 12:43 PM (#4085336)
Subject: RE: Req: One for Rook, one for crow (Guist Ploughman)
From: GUEST,SandyM

Re 'the old drum':
Can't give you an authoritative answer, but educated guess: it says '...stands till the old drum gets here'. Threshing machines usually employed a drum to thresh and would often (always?) be hired out rather than owned by a single farm.

29 Dec 20 - 11:09 AM (#4085502)
Subject: RE: Req: One for Rook, one for crow (Guist Ploughman)
From: GUEST,JeffB

Thanks SandyM. That sounds plausible.

31 Jan 22 - 05:11 PM (#4134633)
Subject: RE: Req: One for Rook, one for crow (Guist Ploughman)
From: GUEST

This little planter's poem has apparently gone through many changes over the years. I say that based on all the variations I found in my search. The variations probably resulted because the poem most likely was verbally communicated and not written down until recently. In Kansas the poem I heard was;

One for the worm and one for the crow,
One to lay fallow and one to grow.

I have never heard this version of the poem in a song (however, my relatives are not that musically inclined). It was always recited as a poem. My family roots are English farmers but I have had no luck in linking this poem back to England.

- Jim