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24 Aug 10 - 10:29 PM (#2972215) Subject: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Ebbie You know, in the 2008 presidential election although I really truly wanted the Democrats to get into office, it kept occurring to me that it would be slick justice if the Republicans won, on the premise that "You made the mess, you clean it up." Well, a Mudcatter reminded me that the stakes were too high for that, and I was glad that Barack Obama got in. It has been a fairly thankless job so far. I think things are better than they were – and much better than they might have been – but it's a slow process, too slow for many of us. However, there are many bright spots showing in the distance, with the ever-present ugly reminder of how it could have been.. The whole thing could have collapsed and on top of a world of hurt we could have found ourselves with nation after nation pulling each other down. So, I am very glad that Obama got in. However, IF the Republicans this month take control of the House and possibly of the Senate and with 2012 staring us in the face I am kind of back to my original thinking. I still really truly want the country to do well and to do ever better- and to my thinking, it won't happen under the Republicans – but if the Repubs win, I'm thinkin' it serves them right. I think that among the first things they would do is reverse as many of Obama's projects and plans as possible- which means they would reinstate the tax cuts for the rich, nullify all the programs that Obama has in process and fill the administration with people who admire and emulate figures like Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Brownie and George dubya, not even to mention Palin. What say you? What would life be like in the near future under a Republican administration? |
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24 Aug 10 - 10:32 PM (#2972216) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Greg F. What would life be like? Hell warmed over. We've BEEN there- why in god's name would anyone want to give the keys back to the jackasseas that put the car in the ditch in the first place? Oh, ye generation of morons. |
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24 Aug 10 - 10:39 PM (#2972220) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Joe Offer Remember the days of the Newt Gingrich Congress of 1994? Multiply that by ten.... |
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24 Aug 10 - 10:40 PM (#2972221) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Ebbie 'Ye' right back at ye, not to mention moron. We - and that includes me and you - have little control of the wide swath of voters. I gather you don't believe in being prepared. |
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24 Aug 10 - 10:41 PM (#2972222) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Ebbie But it would be worse, Joe. I remember the government practically ground to a halt but we have even worse history under our belts now. They don't come much worse than what dubya 'accomplished'. |
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24 Aug 10 - 10:47 PM (#2972223) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Greg F. Oh, I'm prepared. The Canadian Border is only about 90 minutes away. If the genius American electorate in their wisdom put those sacks of crap back in office it simply means the feckin' country is beyond hope. The Republicans and their racist brain-dead teabagger allies WON"T clean up the shitpile they've made, of course, they'll just make it bigger. Time to pick up & move, lock, stock, and barrell. |
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24 Aug 10 - 11:00 PM (#2972230) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Ebbie These days, unless you have a specialty vocation that the Canadians need or unless you have a healthy retirement fund, Canada doesn't want you. |
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24 Aug 10 - 11:08 PM (#2972232) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: katlaughing Why give it the energy by visualising it? Better spent in *seeing* things continue to progress and doing the practical things to help keep it in a Democratic majority, imo. |
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24 Aug 10 - 11:12 PM (#2972234) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: ichMael Gingrich was a shill. His job was to work will Bill Clinton to kill Social Security, and they almost did it. Only the Lewinsky affair stopped it. Quit paying attention to party labels. We only have one party. And the next president of that party will be General David Patreus. He told an Afghani reporter that he wants to be president. Patreus is not saying whether he's a Democrat or Republican (same as Eisenhower, same as Colon Powell). Obama's a farce and will face a challenger from the Democratic party. Maybe Patreus will be that challenger. He'll decided after viewing the outcome of the midterm elections. But more than likely Patreus will run as a Republican. If the country wants to "boot the bums out," then Patreus will win by a landslide. And what would his administration be like? Well, he believes in military tribunals, so there goes trial by jury. And he's been involved with the torture policies in the mid-east, so we can expect that to be visited upon us in the U.S. Military dictatorship. Patreus has said he would only consider running for president if he were "drafted." Witness what the media did with a brokeback crack-smokin' man-whore like Obama. Made him a celebrity. Imagine what they'll do with a zillion-star general. Once Patreus gets in, he will become our Caeser. If you question him, you question America, and that can't be allowed. And it has nothing to do with party politics. It is the elite installing yet another oppressor to carry out their will. But folks'll whine about Patreus the Democrat or Patreus the Republican (whichever he ends up deciding on). The elite always give us a face to get mad at. That's how they control us. |
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24 Aug 10 - 11:33 PM (#2972239) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Joe Offer I wonder if Mudcat's Favorite Conspiracy Theorist will learn to spell the name of General David Howell Petraeus, should Petraeus run for office. Still, I have to say that the Republicans are pulling every dirty trick in the book in their attempt to get Barack Obama out of office, to the point where it does look like some sort of conspiracy. The "birther" and "Barack is a Muslim" movements seem to be gaining strength, and the Republicans are sitting back and doing nothing to refute that crap. And now there's the New York Islamic Center non-issue, about a building proposed for a run-down side street two blocks away from "Ground Zero." What will be their next attempt to defame Obama? More immigration nonsense? I really hope the voters wake up to the fact that the Republicans are feeding them nothing but garbage - but it looks like too many voters are eating that crap for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. -Joe- |
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25 Aug 10 - 12:07 AM (#2972245) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: GUEST,David E. I wonder if we'll see the day when government decides that we are all just too stupid to vote anyway? David E. |
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25 Aug 10 - 01:00 AM (#2972258) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: mousethief If the Republicans get back into power, look for:
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25 Aug 10 - 02:25 AM (#2972281) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Richard Bridge Very plausible, Mousie. I thought Roe -v- Wade had already gone (or at least been crippled) though. And what's "BOR"? |
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25 Aug 10 - 03:46 AM (#2972332) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: michaelr Bill of Rights? Ebbie, don't go there. It's too hideous to consider. |
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25 Aug 10 - 04:28 AM (#2972358) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity It would be the same. The two major parties are an illusion. Snap now, and avoid the rush!! GfS |
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25 Aug 10 - 07:17 AM (#2972427) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Bobert If ya'' remember the horror and fear of waht it was like the last few months of the Bush administration with two unfunded wars and an economy in collapse, a Repub administartion would be like that scenerio becomin the new 'default"... The insanity of trying to fix the deficits without increasing revenues at the expense of millions of elederly living at or just below the poverty line would craete a country with upwards of 30% of its citizens living in poverty and old people losing their homes or apartments and dying in the streets as Republican's walked right by them as if they didn't exist... Their is a misconception that has been promoted by folks like GfS that therer is no difference bewteen the two parties... That played well for a long time but that song is worn out and that dog don't hunt... The new brand of Repubs aren't Repubs at all... They are extremely rich people who have hated the New Deal forever and want it gone and have used their money to buy the media and to buy morons who are clueless as they sign on to one emotional issue after another thinking that these rich people have their best interests in hand... They are very much likew the "horses" in Animal Farm... Well meaning pe3rhaps... Motivated, fir sure... But too stupid to know they are being led into gas chambers as they are told that they are just going in to take a nice, warm shower... B~ |
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25 Aug 10 - 08:02 AM (#2972452) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: beardedbruce Mousie, "They didn't secretly award no-bid contracts to Halliburton (for example)." N0, they didn't. THOSE contracts were awarded under schedules of the Clinton Adninistration. Try to get SOMETHING right. As for the rest- I doubt it, just as YOU would doubt MY list of what Obama and the Democraps are trying to do to the country. |
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25 Aug 10 - 08:11 AM (#2972459) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Greg F. I don't think he'd doubt your list at all, Wee Beardie - he'd just characterise it as bullshit. Wch it would inevitably be. |
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25 Aug 10 - 10:46 AM (#2972551) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Ebbie OK. So now that we've established that it would be a totally unacceptable government, how do we avoid having it happen? At this point, you know, they are saying that we are on a likely path to that development. |
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25 Aug 10 - 10:48 AM (#2972552) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Ebbie Incidentally, Bearded Bruce, this is one time on this subject that I would value your contribution. What do you think a Republican administration would be like? |
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25 Aug 10 - 12:16 PM (#2972600) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: mousethief Did I mention dismantling the National Parks? Also defunding of basic science research. BB, the Repubs are on record as saying the government should be minimized. Many of them have said the only purpose of the national government should be defense and justice. Don't you believe them? N0, they didn't. THOSE contracts were awarded under schedules of the Clinton Adninistration. Awarded by whom? The war didn't start under Clinton. They weren't required to use those "schedules". One could argue plausibly that in terms of economic policy (rather than social), Clinton was a Republican in disguise anyway. |
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25 Aug 10 - 12:20 PM (#2972604) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Bobert: "Their is a misconception that has been promoted by folks like GfS that therer is no difference bewteen the two parties... That played well for a long time but that song is worn out and that dog don't hunt... The new brand of Repubs aren't Repubs at all... They are extremely rich people who have hated the New Deal forever and want it gone and have used their money to buy the media and to buy morons who are clueless as they sign on to one emotional issue after another thinking that these rich people have their best interests in hand..." I have long suspected that George Soros was calling the shots in this last political election.." THIS IS LONG BUT extremely important for all Americans to understand THE GUY WHO PULLS OBAMA'S STRINGS..A powerful and wealthy socialist ... And this man is an unofficial adviser and financial source to Obama??The bottom third confirms Soros goals for the U.S.A very sobering read. Who Is George Soros? This is necessary to understand, please read it all. George Soros was powerful enough to bring the market down in 2 days so we best know his goals. Look at this quote from him, "The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States." Here is what (CBS') Mr. (Steve) Kroft's research has turned up. Bit of a read, but it took 4 months to put it together. "George Soros is an evil man. He's anti-God, anti-family, anti-American, and anti-good." He killed and robbed his own Jewish people. If George Soros isn't the world's preeminent "malignant messianic narcissist," he'll do until Hitler, Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot are reincarnated. What we have in Soros, is a multi-billionaire atheist, with skewed moral values, and a sociopaths lack of conscience. He considers himself to be an elitist world class philosopher, despises the American Way and just loves to do social engineering (change cultures). György Schwartz, better known to the world as George Soros, was born August 12, 1930 in Hungary. Soros' father, Tivadar, was a fervent practitioner of the Esperanto a language invented in 1887, and designed to be the first global language, free of any national identity. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esperanto The Schwartz's, who were non-practicing Jews, changed the family name to Soros, in order to facilitate assimilation into the gentile population, as the Nazis spread into Hungary during the 1930s. When Hitler's henchman Adolf Eichmann arrived in Hungary, to oversee the murder of that country's Jews, George Soros ended up with a man whose job was confiscating property from the Jewish population. Soros went with him on his rounds. .... Maybe time to re-evaluate???
We encourage Mudcatters to post the entire text of music articles (and give information identifying the source). For non-music copy-paste articles, there is a limit of one screen of information - measured by my 32-inch widescreen monitor, so it's a generous allowance. This message was about twice the one-screen allowance. Whenever you post information from another source, please identify your source. Thank you. -Joe Offer, Forum Moderator- |
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25 Aug 10 - 12:28 PM (#2972607) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Ebbie: "These days, unless you have a specialty vocation that the Canadians need or unless you have a healthy retirement fund, Canada doesn't want you." ...and you thought Arizona was so bad...? GfS |
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25 Aug 10 - 12:34 PM (#2972609) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Bobert Another right winged blogger with too much time on his hands... (Well, Boberdz... Why does he has so much time on his hands???) Maybe because this is his job... There Are alot of rightie bloggers gettin six figures to just sit in front of their computers and twist facts into pretzels and come up with the most astounding conspircay theories... But, hey, it's a job, right??? The rich can afford a batallian of six-figure creeps like this... The left??? Not so... No wonder 31% of the Amefrican people think Obama is a Muslim... The left hasn't ever had equal time... Now the right owns most corporate media, all these well paid hatchetmen and so what we have a perfect storm for Boss Hog to take out the New Deal... That was the dream of his daddy and his grand-daddy and the right wing is now in postition to do it... They almost did it with George Bush but ran outta time... Another year is what they needed to destroy our country as we know it... It's kinda like a prize fight... Boss Hog has a big round ith George Bush and the country was saved by the bell (the elction of Obama) but let there be no doubt about it, the right winged has no policy psoitons accept pushing fear, fear and more fear as it tries to bring the nation down... And make no bones about, that is exactly their intent, folks... Bring it down so that they can redo it the way they want where there will be no unions, no one except tyhem will own much of anything, people won't be allowed to retire and where everyone is scambling aginst one another trying to keep a roof over their head and a can of beans on the shelf... That, my fiend's is what the John Beohners of the world want to see... A complete melt down... B~ |
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25 Aug 10 - 12:37 PM (#2972610) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Bill D The question needs to be specific to note that a "Republican" administration right now would be largely the extreme form populated by Tea Partyers and nut jobs like Sharron Angle and Michelle Bachmann who are able to spout nonsense without raising a sweat...and sometimes nonsense 180° from the nonsense they spouted yesterday. It feel like the inmates trying to get control of the asylum, with almost incoherent ideas of what they would DO if they won! They don't have 'plans', they have slogans and wishes. They say "Big Government is BAD!" and "Down With Regulation" and "Stop Runaway Spending"...then they proceed to do whatever form of those fits the 'Slogan de'Jour'. IF they win, look for many of the items mousethief listed to be put forward, with an eye towards cramming as much as possible thru before the voters realize "What Hath Got Wrought". I am convinced that a significant number of the far right are expecting *the end of the world* pretty soon..(2012 & all that) and just want to shape their final days to be as favorable to THEM as possible. |
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25 Aug 10 - 12:37 PM (#2972611) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: olddude Look I do know there are stupid people out there that believe in the mud slinging that keeps running around the internet about the Dems Obama and everyone else who is trying to do something decent for a change (including some republicans that don't fit the bill of the party). I also think he got elected because the majority of Americans are too smart to fall for that crap. Likewise the next election will be based on performance. Right now I see no one in the republican party that seems to have the goods to win anything. They embraced this far right agenda and it is going to come back to bite them like it did before. If they run someone who is a thinking person with solutions and not bumper sticker commentary then maybe they have some chance. However, that won't happen. The problem with embracing a far right or far left agenda is you are stuck with the consequences. You cannot bash Obama, call him a socialist and then try to run a candidate that is middle ground .. you shoot yourself in the ass by doing so ... I suspect unless the Republican's change their focus and do it fast, they lose again ... big .. or unless the Dems do something so stupid that people pull the lever just to protest. That is a concern also |
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25 Aug 10 - 12:45 PM (#2972616) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity ...by the way, I too thought Bush, BOTH OF THEM, were incredibly corrupt, agenda driven, and pieces of shit! You have NO argument with me, on that one! GfS |
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25 Aug 10 - 01:10 PM (#2972633) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Ebbie I think that Guest from Sanity should be barred from the Mudcat. He is deliberately promulgating falsities about another human being. I hold no brief for George Soros; I don't know the man. I do know enough, however, to know that GfS is spreading malicious garbage, knowingly. George Soros, if you care to read the actual transcript from the Steve Kroft on 60 Minutes, was 14 years old when his father split up his family in an effort to survive the Nazi regime. His son, George, was left behind in Germany, to pose as the godson of a well-known Christian German who was paid for the duty. His 'godfather' worked for the Nazis and he had the boy assist. George Soros did survive the Holocaust; many of his relatives did not. To say (quote?), as Guest from Sanity does: "When Hitler's henchman Adolf Eichmann arrived in Hungary, to oversee the murder of that country's Jews, George Soros ended up with a man whose job was confiscating property from the Jewish population. Soros went with him on his rounds." is smear beyond decency. FACTS: The boy was left behind, separated from his family. No one knew who would survive the Nazis or if they would ever meet again. if the family would ever be re-united. The boy was 14 YEARS OLD. |
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25 Aug 10 - 01:19 PM (#2972640) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: pdq The Republican candidate for governor of Vermont is named Dubie. Wonder if that's enough to get Bobert's support? |
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25 Aug 10 - 04:10 PM (#2972772) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Stringsinger Many don't remember Herbert Hoover, or knew about McKinley. If you read up on their administrations, you'll get an idea. Of course Teddy Roosevelt was a Repub and he busted the "trusts". Lincoln was an early Repub. The problem is with their contemporary ideology and the ridiculous notion of economics that included "trickle down" and the so-called "free market" which is a misnomer. Also, you can bet that it would be an authoritarian administration and anti-diversity in its orientation. The dissolution of American principles of democracy started with the ascendency of Ronald Reagan. |
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25 Aug 10 - 04:19 PM (#2972778) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: olddude Ronald Reagan and why is he so idolized? I mean personality wise I liked listening to him .. but as a president no ... my mortgage was 14 3/4 % he busted unions .. tossed out federal safe guards on investments and a host of other things that were a disaster ... run away inflation .. good grief was a mess I liked Jimmy Carter .. he wasn't a good president but I like him personality wise .. but people admit Jimmy wasn't a good president .. but why does everyone say Reagan was a great president ... someone please explain that to me .. and at that time, I was a republican. I left the party for that reason .. |
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25 Aug 10 - 04:20 PM (#2972779) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Ebster: "I hold no brief for George Soros; I don't know the man. I do know enough, however, to know that GfS is spreading malicious garbage, knowingly." Just quoting a source,...as you are..(I think)...so....double check your source...I'll do the same, to see if things got added, or deleted. GfS |
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25 Aug 10 - 04:22 PM (#2972780) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: olddude I suspect it had something to do with the fall of the Soviet Union .. but was it him that did that or did it just fall because of its own crushing debt (something I see us in today outselves) never understood the Reagan idolization |
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25 Aug 10 - 04:34 PM (#2972790) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Greg F. the fall of the Soviet Union .. but was it [Ronnie Ray Gun] Of course it wasn't him - don't be a prat. However, he WAS our first non compos mentis, senile in office president - if you discount a couple of months of McKinley, after his stroke). That should be distinction enough for him. |
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25 Aug 10 - 05:09 PM (#2972813) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Don Firth He was a halfway decent actor. Not great, just halfway decent. He shoulda stuck with acting. Don Firth P. S. I have a hard time watching old movies with Reagan in them. Even if it's a good movie and he's doing an adequate job. My gag reflex. . . . |
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25 Aug 10 - 05:26 PM (#2972824) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Ebbie William McKinley did not have a stroke - or at least, he certainly did not die of one. He was assassinated. You may be thinking of Woodrow Wilson. |
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25 Aug 10 - 05:41 PM (#2972831) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Bobert "Dubie", ya say, pdq??? Hey, I'm not sure I'd vote fir the guy but maybe sit down, roll one and see what the dude is like stoned... Then I might vote fir him... Or not... "Don't Bogart that jont my friend, pass it over to me..." BTW, this thread ain't about George Soros... Its about what a Republican (if you can call them that anymore) would look like... BTW, part B... Charlie Christ, Florida now Independent, is one of the last standing real Republicans and he'll get alot of Dem crossover votes for that come November... But, hey, even if the Repubs sweep in Novemeber they'll need to get 66% of the House and Senate to bring about their Rapture 'cause Obama will veto all the Rapture/loonie legislation... B~ |
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25 Aug 10 - 05:51 PM (#2972837) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Q (Frank Staplin) Time to teach them Canadians a lesson or two. The next job for the U.S. military. |
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25 Aug 10 - 06:04 PM (#2972844) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Genie Mousethief, you're right on pretty near all points. But I wouldn't bestow the respectable label of "conservative" on Scalia, Roberts, Thomas and Alito - two of whom threw the Constitution aside to overrule Florida's own Supreme Court's decision in the 2000 Presidential election. These guys are "conservative" and "strict constructionists" only when it suits their political goals. When it comes to issues like whether Madison et al. considered money to be "speech" and corporations to be "people" with all the rights but not all the obligations and vulnerabilities of "natural persons," not so much. You listed voter roll purges, but don't forget the tactic of disenfranchising millions of natural-born US citizens who for various reasons don't have a passport or driver's license and can't afford to get a copy of their birth certificates. Oh, and then there's controlling election "outcomes" by way of black box voting machines. The public will 'buy' whatever weird "outcome" the quasi-monopolistic media announce, because the media will direct both expectations and post-hoc interpretations by their "political analyses." You're right that more hyper-extreme right-wing, pro-corporation & anti-labor, pro-prosecution and anti-defendant judges to the SCOTUS, resulting, ultimately, in an overthrow many important freedoms (more torture, less habeas corpus, no real 5th Amendment right, limited freedom of assembly, no right of privacy, more indefinite confinement without prosecution, etc.) But the Republicans probably wouldn't pass a Constitutional amendment to ban abortion even if they could, because the issue is too useful as a wedge issue and energizer for the right-wing "base." They didn't seriously try when they had control of all 3 branches of our gov't. for 6 years. |
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25 Aug 10 - 06:05 PM (#2972845) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Greg F. Sorry Ebbie - I'm having a bad brain day- of course I meant Woodrow. (McKinley would probably have preferred a stroke to a bullet, being a Civil War veteran) |
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25 Aug 10 - 06:06 PM (#2972846) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Genie But, Alex, you also forgot the biggest and most immediate thing the Republicans will do if they even just regain control of the House: instigate and conduct endless investigations of just about any powerful or high-profile Democrat — especially President Obama — on any number of flimsy, trivial or even trumped-up charges. Mitch McConnell, John Boehner, Michelle Bachman and other Republican spokespeople have proudly proclaimed this as their plan (though they won't cop to the "flimsy" and "trumped-up" part). They will tie up Congress and the media with non-stop hearings that will cost us taxpayers tens to hundreds of $millions, the way Ken Starr did with Clinton. It will be like the perpetual attack on the Clintons - but on steroids. |
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25 Aug 10 - 06:28 PM (#2972854) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Richard Bridge Do people idolise ROnnie Ray-Gun? Over here in the UK he is generally regarded as a rather bad joke. However Ebbie, your defence of Soros seems to be that FfS's facts were (for once) right but they don't count. Is that a fair riposte to you? |
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25 Aug 10 - 06:43 PM (#2972863) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Bill D Ok... here's what I have first hand about Republican administrations. I have a friend who has been at EPA since 1974...he spent 'most' of that time near the top... in various positions...the last 10 years or so as a GS-15 supervisor and acting or asst. head of a department. He told me years ago that when Reagan came in, he did exactly what the had Once G.W. Bush was in, it got worse. Serious 'protecting of the environment' was a joke, as all the policy positions were stuffed with bought & paid for industry apologists. My friend's precise comment..."I've never seen anything like it in my 25 years." He was told when certain issues came up that he had expertise on...'We don't need your input on that... policy has already been decided.'...This told to a GS-15 with 20+ years experience. Regulations were gutted, studies were shelved, entire work groups were paid to do NOTHING, while PR wonks were making excuses and taking advice from the chemical industry, the oil industry, the pesticide industry, the logging industry, the mining industry...and anyone else with a vested interest in seeing little or no oversight on environmental problems. THAT is part... a small part... of what one could expect in another administration where Republicans either set policy or block good policy. Be very afraid. Oh... my friend is retiring this Summer. |
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25 Aug 10 - 07:23 PM (#2972888) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Genie Your post is right on, Bill. But I think it's ever worse than that. Once the big multinational corporations complete the takeover our government agencies, the courts, the media (including those "internets" when "net neutrality" legislation is defeated), our financial institutions, and the mechanics of our voter registration, voting systems and vote counting, the control may well be so complete that no Democrats, liberals, populists, or even true "moderates" will ever be elected again in sufficient numbers to have real impact on our laws and policies. We're pretty close to being there, with such well-funded right-wing control of radio stations, TV channels (including local news), and even the internet (by way of those well-paid Republican shills who constantly edit Wikipedia to rewrite history and who flood message boards and talk shows with deceptive calls to spread the right-wing talking points). The Democrats had some chance to change things, such as breaking up the media monopolies or pushing for real campaign funding reform, at least on the publicly owned airways, but they didn't really try very hard. If the Democrats retain control of the Senate, they can amend the Filibuster rules to prevent most of the obstructionism the Republicans in this past Congress have engaged in. If they retain control of the House, they can continue pushing for legislation that will benefit the general populace instead of the tiny minority of the uber-wealthy. But if the Republicans take control of either house, all the Democrats can hope to do is maybe slow down some of the reactionary legislative agenda of the Republicans. Oh, and one other thing: It's fairly likely that many of the big corporations are deliberately holding off on spending their $ in ways that would boost the economy, job creation, etc. - either because they want to make Republican victories more likely this year and in 2012 or maybe just because they're risk-averse at the moment and are hoarding cash. That's likely to change next year or at least by early 2013, in which case the Republicans, if they're in office, will eagerly claim credit, and the media will buy into that. |
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25 Aug 10 - 07:35 PM (#2972893) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: MarkS Probably not much different from what we have today. Deficits would be a bit smaller but there would still be deficits. Taxes will be higher, because of the tax increase coming in January when the Bush rate reductions expire. Gitmo will still be open, and we will still be in combat in Afghanistan. Iraq will still be a mess, and Islamists will still think we are the great satan. You can bet on an Iranian bomb soon enouth though - those folks have their own agenda do not care who is in power in Washington. Tuesday is going to be pretty much like Monday - no matter who is in charge. |
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25 Aug 10 - 07:45 PM (#2972902) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Bridge: "..However Ebbie, your defence of Soros seems to be that FfS's facts were (for once) right but they don't count..." Shit, they're a lot more right(correct) than a lot on here believe, only because they've been indoctrinated with the Soros propaganda machineS....Oh, and its GfS...not FtS...and by the way, Thank You! GfS |
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25 Aug 10 - 08:03 PM (#2972912) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Genie Mark, if the Republicans take control of Congress, the Estate tax will be totally eliminated and the other GBW tax cuts will be reinstated - at least for 10 years minus one day - so deficits are not likely to decrease, even if government programs are cut. Let's not forget that Dubya and the Republicans put the cost of the Iraq and Afghanistan 'wars' off-budget. I'm not thrilled with the DLC Democrats and Obama's administration has left much to be desired. And the Democrats have not been able to change a lot of laws and policies much, partly because of lack of Republican cooperation and partly because too many Democrats are indebted to the big corporations too. But if you and GfS think there's no real difference between today's Republicans and Democrats, you're either blind or deluded. There are major differences in the way the Constitution is interpreted by most judges appointed by Democrats and those appointed by GWB (and even GHWB). There are notable differences in orientation toward exploitation of our natural resources and lands - even if the differences are smaller than I'd like. The Republicans want to "privatize" Social Security, our entire school system, prison system, etc., and keep health care insurance in the hands of for-profit corporations, even if that means millions of people have no coverage. On many issues, the differences between the Obama administration and that of GWB, Reagan, and GHWB are more of degree than of kind, but there's still a big difference. And the federal courts, including the Supreme Court, are probably the most consequential area of difference. And those appointments have a much longer-lived influence than any Congressional legislation does. |
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25 Aug 10 - 08:28 PM (#2972923) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Bobert Bill's abaolutely correct on what the Repubs have done over the years to the EPA... Might of fact, one of our regulars at the Getaway, D**** F*******, just retired from the EPA and has told me as much over my years of knowing her... And Genie is right... Thomas, Scalia and Co are not conservatives... Nor ar these loonie Tea Part people... They are radical and borderline anarchists... B~ |
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25 Aug 10 - 09:02 PM (#2972941) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: mousethief The Handmaiden's Tale. |
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25 Aug 10 - 09:38 PM (#2972954) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Leadfingers An interesting point is that Anti Obama Spin happens in UK media too - The Torygraph had an aricle about Obamas SIX holidays this year with dates - THREE of them were ALL of TWO days which would be a weekend in MY book ! Is the president supposed to be at work 24/7 ? |
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25 Aug 10 - 09:51 PM (#2972961) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Bobert Doesn't much matter, lead... If Obama found a cure for cancer there would be people twisting that into some hate filled thesis... Most of us who opposed Bush's policies were confronted as Bush haters and we stepped up and said, "No, we aren't... We hate his policies"... These Obama haters make no distiction... You call them on it and they don't deny it... Lots of media hate Obama for various reasons... Some because he3 is black, others because he represents hope and others because they just hate Democrats being in power... I think the later is the bulk of them... B~ |
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25 Aug 10 - 09:53 PM (#2972963) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: katlaughing If the Koch Bros. have anything to do with it, it will tea-party/libertarians who will take over. They have waged a personal war against President Obama in a very insidios and multi-million dollar kind of way: The billionaire Koch brothers' war against Obama. Good for Michelle for not being there, btw. |
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25 Aug 10 - 10:10 PM (#2972970) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Bobert That link doesn't work, kat... But it's no wonder that when Dems are in officew that mega bucks are spent to try to find dirt on them... Look at how much was spent by both the Clinton haters and the Ken Starr harrassing Bill Clinton... Now it's Obama... This is waht have spokan about lots of times... The Repubs are the party of the rich and they will spenf whatever it takes to discredit Dem adminstrations... Unfortunately, the Dems don't have that many rich people on their side willing to return the disfavor... b~ |
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25 Aug 10 - 10:11 PM (#2972971) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Joe_F 1. Business is best when fools can borrow. 2. You can combine low unemployment with low inflation by borrowing from foreigners. |
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25 Aug 10 - 10:40 PM (#2972983) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Genie Leadfingers, the media uproar over Obama's "vacations" would be laughable, in view of the record # of "vacation days" GWB took during his 8 time in office, if it the media-consuming public weren't so easily led around by the nose. All Presidents are, of course, "at work 24/7/365" in the sense that they're always "on call" and usually do conduct some government business during their "vacation" days (unless, like SC Gov., Mark Sanford, they decide to "hike the Appalachian trail" in So. America w/o letting their aides etc., know where they are). But Dubya was often not really on top of things (e.g., on the morning of 9-11-2001). The Republicans have got a lot of chutzpah (and not in a good way) criticizing Obama every time he plays a round of golf or spends a couple days with his family away from the White House. |
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25 Aug 10 - 11:18 PM (#2972988) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: MarkS "Mark, if the Republicans take control of Congress, the Estate tax will be totally eliminated and the other GBW tax cuts will be reinstated - at least for 10 years minus one day - so deficits are not likely to decrease, even if government programs are cut." But Genie, but you have to remember that the Bush tax cuts are in effect right now. They will end on December 31, no matter the outcome of the November elections. The earliest any changes could even be started - assuming the repubs gain control of both houses of congress - will be after the new congress is seated, sometime in January. So then this hypothetical republican congress will pass legislation in both senate and house and Obama will sign it! NOT! So to repeat - taxes will go up in January, regardless who wins in November. |
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25 Aug 10 - 11:47 PM (#2972996) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: katlaughing Bobert, works for me. Here's the addy: http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/08/30/100830fa_fact_mayer |
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26 Aug 10 - 04:13 AM (#2973052) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity I would try to look from each side's point of view, and get the reasoning,..and the TRUTH, before I would allow my emotions to be manipulated by those who wish to cloud the TRUTH, for a slick, hidden agenda.....on BOTH sides, and including everyone of them. They are ACCOUNTABLE to US...and we should NOT be swayed by "Stereo Politicians, speaking from Both Sides of Their Mouths"...either side, because THEY BOTH GOT THEM!!!!! To not believe that, because of some 'party loyalty' is sheer nonsensical crap....they can, and do shovel it, but I ain't eatin' it!!! GfS |
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26 Aug 10 - 07:51 AM (#2973152) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Bobert Don't forget Katrina, Genie... Dubya kinda missed out on that one, too... Might of fact, they had to strap him into AirForceOne and duct tape his face to window and fly over New Orleans for him to believe that it actaully happened... I didn't realize that coke 'causes "flashbacks" but, hey??? Yeah, GFS, they do both have them... I just can't think of any Dems out there lieing thru their teeth about mush these days while the Repubs are pushin' so many lies around that they must be gettin' tongue-weary... B~ |
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26 Aug 10 - 11:27 AM (#2973263) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: olddude What disturbs me is this. When there is a very good hardworking and caring person who happens to be Republican. The party anymore doesn't want that type. They have been pushed so far to the right that it gets more than disturbing. My family especially my uncle is very close to Tom Ridge. He was the first homeland secretary. Tom left DC holding his nose. The guy was probably the best Gov Pennsylvania ever had .. and a very good decent person. He walked, did his job then left holding his nose .. Now why would that happen .. I also see on the Democratic side people going farther and farther to the far left and that is disturbing also. I am a registered independent for very good reasons although the democratic side always makes more sense to me .. but we cannot have this outer fringe either way and be successful as a nation. And the republicans seem to have gone further to the edge than most dems I see |
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26 Aug 10 - 11:55 AM (#2973285) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Genie OK, Mark, Given that Obama can veto any bills passed by a Republican Congress, the reinstatement of Dubya's tax cuts probably won't go through before early 2013. But I think that if the Republicans take control of Congress this fall, Obama will be officially defeated in 2012, along with Republicans retaining control of Congress, because of the factors we've already cited (control of voter registration, voting machines, congressional redistricting, media ownership consolidation, limitless campaign spending by corporations, big corporations wanting Republicans to win, etc.) So those tax cuts for the ultra rich and for income acquired by means other than wages/salaries will be reinstated in the near future. |
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26 Aug 10 - 12:13 PM (#2973302) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Genie GfS and Old Dude, I'm not blindly loyal to any political party, and I do try to read and hear both/all sides of an issue - as long as the issue is important (not whether someone prefers Dijon mustard to "plain" mustard or whether the rhetoric of someone's pastor is flambuoyant ) and what's being said seems to be honest and fair. The problem I have with many right-wing talk shows and even many "news analysis" shows is that they deal in out-of-context sound or video clips, distort the facts, focus on trivial or tangential issues, and spend way too much time predicting what's going to happen next -- that is, when they're not engaging in lazy, biased, and sloppy "interpretation" of what current events (e.g., election results) "mean." (Case in point: Media 'pundits' declaring that election results over the past year or two show "anti-incumbent sentiment," when a lot of the data don't square with that interpretation and other results are easily attributable to other factors.) olddude - PM Date: 26 Aug 10 - 11:27 AM What disturbs me is this. When there is a very good hardworking and caring person who happens to be Republican. The party anymore doesn't want that type. They have been pushed so far to the right that it gets more than disturbing. My family especially my uncle is very close to Tom Ridge. He was the first homeland secretary. Tom left DC holding his nose. The guy was probably the best Gov Pennsylvania ever had .. and a very good decent person. He walked, did his job then left holding his nose .. Now why would that happen .. I do agree that today's Republican Party bears little or no resemblance to the party of Richard Nixon, Nelson Rockefeller, Everett Dirksen, Tom Ridge, Gerald Ford, etc., - much less that of Teddy Roosevelt or Abraham Lincoln. But today's Democratic Party is far less liberal than that of Franklin Roosevelt, Thomas Jefferson, JFK, Lyndon Johnson, Harry Truman, George McGovern, or Jimmy Carter. The real progressives tend to vote Democratic because there's no chance of being represented in national office, or even most state offices, by any other party. But even the Obama administration has pretty much relegated voices like Dennis Kucinich, Alan Grayson, Bernie Sanders (Ind. - Vermont), etc. to the "fringe." It's been said that Bill Clinton was the best Republican President we've had in recent decades, and I think that's a pretty accurate assessment. |
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26 Aug 10 - 01:31 PM (#2973366) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: beardedbruce "Trust on Issues Voters Now Trust Republicans More On All 10 Key Issues Thursday, August 26, 2010 Voters now trust Republicans more than Democrats on all 10 of the important issues regularly tracked by Rasmussen Reports. The GOP has consistently been trusted on most issues for months now, but in July they held the lead on only nine of the key issues. Republicans lead Democrats 47% to 39% on the economy, which remains the most important issue to voters. Those numbers are nearly identical to those found in June. Republicans have held the advantage on the economy since May of last year. But for the first time in months, Republicans now hold a slight edge on the issues of government ethics and corruption, 40% to 38%. Voters have been mostly undecided for the past several months on which party to trust more on this issue, but Democrats have held small leads since February. Still, more than one-in-five voters (22%) are still not sure which party to trust more on ethics issues. Government ethics and corruption have been second only to the economy in terms of importance to voters over the past year. Two surveys of 1,000 Likely U.S. Voters each were conducted August 19-20 and August 23-24, 2010 by Rasmussen Reports. The margin of sampling error is +/- 3 percentage points with a 95% level of confidence. Field work for all Rasmussen Reports surveys is conducted by Pulse Opinion Research, LLC. See methodology. Republicans hold a 52% to 36% lead over Democrats on the issue of taxes. It's the only issue this month on which the GOP earns the trust of the majority of voters. In June, more than 50% of voters nationwide trusted Republicans more on the issues of national security, taxes and health care. Voters trust the GOP over Democrats by a 49% to 37% margin on national security and the War on Terror but give the GOP just a 43% to 40% edge on the war in Iraq. Republicans are trusted more by 43% to handle the war in Afghanistan, compared to 36% for Democrats. On the issue of immigration, Republicans are trusted more by a 44% to 35% margin. That gap has narrowed slightly from June, when the GOP led 47% to 32% on the issue. It was the party's largest advantage since January. Despite a judge's ruling putting key provisions of Arizona's new immigration law on hold, most U.S. voters still favor passage of such a law in their own state. An overwhelming majority of voters think all those who vote in this country should be required to present photo identification before they cast their ballots. On health care, voters now trust Republicans slightly more - by a 48% to 40% margin. In June, the GOP held a 51% to 40% edge on this issue. Fifty-six percent (56%) of voters continue to favor repeal of the national health care bill, with 46% who Strongly Favor it. The parties remain close on the issue of education, with the GOP holding a statistically insignificant 41% to 40% edge. Both parties have held very modest leads on this issue for the past several months. When it comes to the issue of Social Security, voters again give the Republicans the edge, this time by a 44% to 38% margin. Republicans hold a nine-point lead over Democrats on the Generic Congressional Ballot for the week ending Sunday, August 22, 2010. They've led on the ballot since last summer. Incumbent members of Congress don't exactly get a vote of confidence from their constituents. Just 27% of voters think their representative in Congress is the best possible person for the job, down six points from November of last year. Only 37% believe their local congressional representative deserves reelection, compared to 42% who felt that way way last fall. Sixty percent (60%) of voters say most members of Congress don't care what their constituents think. Most voters continue to believe it would be better for the country if the majority of Congress is thrown out this November, but they also remain unconvinced that a Republican takeover will make a noticeable difference. " http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/mood_of_america/trust_on_issues |
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26 Aug 10 - 01:54 PM (#2973386) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Richard Bridge The skew in that selection of topics quite takes my breath away. |
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26 Aug 10 - 01:55 PM (#2973389) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: olddude Bill Clinton was certainly the most conservative President we had in regard to the economy and that is an example of why we had such a surplus and such a solid economy ... I think that coupled with the fact he was just smart. Everyone knows I am close to Bill and Hillary and certainly supported Hillary when she ran (why wouldn't I). I am also an Obama fan, I think he is trying to do a lot of good especially in health care ... I also don't like things such as the cell phone give-a-way .. that drove me nuts .. those are tax dollars we are talking about .. that did nothing to help anyone I thought only increased the national debt. Likewise I do have a problem with the extension of the unemployment compensation. Only for this reason. My state the state of New York is broke. They cannot afford the increase in unemployment benefits .. what then happens is they start to layoff state workers to pay for such services increasing the unemployment rate. One cannot help those unemployed by forcing others into unemployment .. that doesn't make sense to me. So it is issue like this that we need to address as a nation .. We need to help those in need but we need to do it in a careful and smart manner. I would have said lets increase it for those who are retraining and retooling for new careers in school. There is no money and we are borrowing from foreign governments to pay for this stuff. Likewise why wasn't there very close restrictions on the wall street housing bail out ... Obscene to allow executives to use tax dollar for bonuses .. I would have hoped that Obama would have stopped that stuff. I know he wanted to .. don't know what happened to not make that occur. So for me, there is plenty of blame on both side of the political arena to go around. Obama inherited a mess and he is trying to solve many of the problems he inherited .. he is doing well in many regards and not in others .. But it was certainly better than any of the alternatives I saw for sure. This independent voter will look at everything next election like I am sure others like me will do. |
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26 Aug 10 - 02:05 PM (#2973398) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Greg F. Republicans lead Democrats 47% to 39% on the economy, which remains the most important issue to voters. Well, ya see, Wee Beardie even assuming the poll is an accurate reflection of voter sentiment (which whole 1000 persons did they query out of a population of 290+ million?) that just points up the fact that the Ametican Electorate is brain dead, since Republican voodoo economics is what got the U.S. into the current financial shithole and has been PROVEN to be what got the country into the current financial shithole. PS: Back in the day of Dombya and the BuShites, you had no use for polls, claimed they were bogus, useless, etc. Why the change of heart?? |
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26 Aug 10 - 02:13 PM (#2973400) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: lefthanded guitar More and more voters are becoming I ndependents, with voters having a well merited disaffection with the players of both parties. From my humble view, I think this has been a basically Republican (and leaning ever more to the conservative view) federal government for about the past 40 years. Richard Nixon, not to mention Eisenhower, would probably be considered liberals, compared to the elected officials of the Bush (jr.) and Reagan eras. However, to paraphrase Ed Koch, the brilliant and controversal ex mayor of New York City (and OFT considered as one who sold out to Republican, conservative issues) in a commentary as to who his party devotion belonged to: "There is one fundamental difference between Republicans and Democrats. Republicans say, 'Hey I made my way, I pulled myself up by my own bootstraps; so should everyone else.' Democrats say: 'Hey if you've had some trouble, we can lend a helping hand. After all, we're all human.' Which is why I am a Democrat." |
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26 Aug 10 - 02:41 PM (#2973417) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: beardedbruce Well, little Greggie, "that just points up the fact that the Ametican Electorate is brain dead, " Proven by the LAST election, obviously. "PS: Back in the day of Dombya and the BuShites, you had no use for polls, claimed they were bogus, useless, etc." Oh? I have no record of that- care to provide evidence when yoyu make claims about others??? |
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26 Aug 10 - 02:43 PM (#2973422) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: beardedbruce Greggie, I may have stated a while ago that being unpopular does not make one incorrect ( OR correct). I'll have to look back at that. |
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26 Aug 10 - 02:47 PM (#2973425) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: beardedbruce lefthanded guitar, The best definition of the two parties I have found is: A Republican spends a lot of his own money making people do what he wants them to do; A Democrat spends a lot of OTHER peoples' money making people do what he wants them to do. |
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26 Aug 10 - 02:47 PM (#2973426) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Greg F. Yeah, and then there's (Republican!!!) Herbert Hoover's take on things, just prior to the Great Depression: "You know, the only trouble with capitalism is capitalists; they're too damn greedy." The current Republican party -or what currently passes for the Republican party has either completely lost touch with reality or been captured by aliens. No facts/brains/logic need apply. |
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26 Aug 10 - 02:58 PM (#2973434) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Greg F. Nay, Wee Beardie, but being incorrect - particularly when it impacts the financial of the nation, sure should make one unpopular! vide Geo. Dumbya & Voodoo Economics. |
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26 Aug 10 - 03:27 PM (#2973449) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: beardedbruce Well, little Greggie, Looking at the poll numbers I can understand why they are so low for Obama. "Nay, Wee Beardie, but being incorrect - particularly when it impacts the financial of the nation, sure should make one unpopular!" |
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26 Aug 10 - 03:44 PM (#2973461) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Genie Bruce, aside from the obvious bias in the "issue" selection and questions, it's no surprise that most respondents favored the Republicans, with the way that the "mainstream media" (not to mention 90& of political talk radio shows) present the "issues" and news about them. Let's not forget that an alarmingly high percentage of Americans still believe that Saddam Hussein was behind the attacks on 9-11-01, that Obama is a Muslim, that Obama raised taxes on the middle and lower income tax brackets, that Obama was not born in the US, that Social Security is bankrupt, that Al Gore claimed to have invented the internet, that a heavy snowfall in NYC in winter is inconsistent with global warming, that you can be a communist and a fascist at the same time, and many other erroneous ideas. The TV news and commentary shows - even the ones that people don't think of as biased - present "information" and issues and ideas in simplistic form at best. They often allow political spokespeople to spout their party's talking points without question. When they do present a controversy, it's usually in a form like "Environmentalists say ____, while others say _____." They seldom play referee, clarifying issues and correcting misperceptions, even when the facts are easy to find and pretty much undisputed. There are other good, scientific polls where people are asked their views on specific issues (clearly worded and more specific, not just vague terms), and on those the majority of Americans agree more with the views of Democrats and liberals/progressives than with the conservatives or Republicans. |
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26 Aug 10 - 03:54 PM (#2973470) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Genie BB, here's another example of how the media "spins" the facts in a way that abets self-fulfilling prophecy. You speak of Obama's "low" popularity, and the "mainstream media" have for months been leading with headlines like "Obama's ratings are at a new low" -- whether he's dropped from 70% to 60% or to 50%, etc. What they conveniently (or lazily?) neglect to mention is that a) Obama got "only" about 54% of the popular vote when he was elected (and that's considered be a "landslide" or close to it, because elections are often closer than that), and b) many other Presidents, e.g., the sainted Ronald Reagan, had ratings at or below Obama's at the same points in their Presidencies. GWB's ratings during his second term often dipped below 30% favorable. What's amazing (and heartening) to me is that Obama's approval ratings continue to be near 50% in most polls despite being criticized by many in the media for just about everything he does and despite having more venom thrown at him than any President I can remember. |
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26 Aug 10 - 04:03 PM (#2973477) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Genie Oh, and Bruce, That definition of Democrats and Republicans is pretty far off the mark. The money that Republicans spend making people go to fight their wars (sometimes when the public has nothing to gain from being at war) is the taxpayers' money -- and it's often spent in ways that enrich the military-industrial complex that includes a lot of those Republicans' stock holdings. Oh, and a lot of taxpayer money is also spent on police, legislators, courts, prisons, etc., to enforce laws against things that "conservatives" don't want people to have the right to do in their own private lives. True progressives and liberals want public as well as private money to be spent doing the people's business -- e.g. building and maintaining the country's infrastructure, protecting public and worker safety and caring for the environment, providing education for all, and tending to other important parts of "the commons." To the extent that Democrats are progressives/liberals they are of like mind. |
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26 Aug 10 - 04:17 PM (#2973488) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: beardedbruce Genie, "The money that Republicans spend making people go to fight their wars (sometimes when the public has nothing to gain from being at war) is the taxpayers' money " 1. the Republicans represent the rich 2. the rich pay most of the taxes conclusion- the TAX dollars that are being spent are coming MOSTLY from Republicans. I know, there ARE rich liberals- as well as poor Republicans (ie, me!) but the first statement has been a staple of ALL Mudcat discussions, and to refute it would upset the vast majority of those posting. The second point is a matter os fact- the TOP 50% of earners pay ALL the income taxes, the top 10% pay something like 40%. ( not looking up exact number- feel free to check it) |
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26 Aug 10 - 04:17 PM (#2973489) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Greg F. Like I said, Genie - Brain Death Rules!! No facts or intelligence or critical thinking need apply. |
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26 Aug 10 - 04:48 PM (#2973502) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Genie Bruce, The lower and middle income people pay a much higher percentage of their income in taxes than the rich do - especially if the rich get most of their income via inheritance or interest, dividends, etc. (This disproportionality is exacerbated by things that the working class and poor buy which are taxed. How fair is it, for example, that if you buy a car you pay sales tax on it but if you buy a car company you don't?) The rich - big businesses, at least - use a disproportionately large percentage of the public's money, by way of the legislatures, courts, etc. ~ How can one group pay ALL the income taxes and another group pay 40% of them? And you're aware, aren't you, that many wealthy people and corporations pay no income taxes whatsoever, because of loopholes, off-shoring, etc.? |
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26 Aug 10 - 05:02 PM (#2973513) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Greg F. Wee Beardie is well aware- he just doesn't give a toss. |
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26 Aug 10 - 05:08 PM (#2973521) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: beardedbruce "~ How can one group pay ALL the income taxes and another group pay 40% of them? " The top 50% includes the top 10%. Capiche? |
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26 Aug 10 - 06:30 PM (#2973571) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Bobert The problem here, as Genie alluded to, is that the media won't allow a "real issue" to make to the forfront... No, what we have is bullshit and more bullshit about nuthin' and we are not looking at any issues... That is purdy messed up way to run a messed up nation... At some point in time we're going to have to quit the bullshit and, HOORORS, face the fuckin' problems and address them head on... Right now, it seems like politics have become the new "reality series" where people tune in to see people hurt one another... I personally don't think we, as a nation with serious problems, have the LUXARY, or playing too many more games here... And, IMHO, it is the Repubs and their media-bed-buds that are standing in the way of addressing these massive problejms... And it will, no matter what happens in Novemeber, be the Repubs and their media-bed-buds who will ultimately be hald accountable... B~ |
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26 Aug 10 - 07:54 PM (#2973619) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Genie My goof, Bruce. I read that as "the top 50% Pay ALL" and another 10% pay 40%. But your statement about the top 50% paying "all" the income taxes is total BS (not to mention absurd). Who do you think gets all that tax money that I and the rest of us us below the median income pay? |
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26 Aug 10 - 08:02 PM (#2973624) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Genie A major part of our problem is that our media "stars" (including "news anchors," commentators, etc.), like way to many of our elected officials, are way too wealthy to really relate to the issues that face the vast majority of Americans (not to mention the rest of the world). People tend to dismiss academia as the "ivory tower," but I think our Senators, Presidents, Federal Judges, and many Congressional Representatives - plus the corporate lobbyists they hang out with - those are the ones really in an ivory tower. Way too many in the "news" business and politics view it all as some sort of sports contest, where what's important is the excitement and fun of the game and also the spoils that come with winning. They rarely seem to approach it as a difficult, serious job with people's lives and livelihoods depending on how it's done. |
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26 Aug 10 - 08:09 PM (#2973629) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Bobert Hey, look... If the upper 5% of wage earners corral 80% of the wealth then they should pay 80% of the taxes... Ain't friggin' rocket science... Anything less is a regressive tax system to put higher burdens on those not in the upper 5%... I'm so sick of hearing that statistic because it only proves that the rich ain't paying theiy way... We're either gonna tax fairly on how much folks take in or we're not... Right now the rich are getting a free ride... (But, Boberdz... The rich are allready paying over 50% of the taxes...) Like I said... This is the most bogus argument ever propagated by the ricdh and those who whorship the rich... B~ |
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26 Aug 10 - 09:03 PM (#2973669) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Actually, If the government, BOTH sides just enforced the laws concerning monopolies, and got themselves out of the way, and OUT of everyone's lives, the PEOPLE, could get us out of this mess...but both the corrupt government and the corrupting corporations, are the reason we have this economic problem we have now!...Not if this party did this and the other party did that. Neither one of them gives a rat's ass about us, but rather, what opportunistic situation can they cap on, for their personal gain....even if they have to 'give a little' (concessions), to get it through. People are afraid to invest, or even to trade, or hire, out of FEAR, of what new BULLSHIT is going to come down on them..and from who?..other people?..NO, from the government taking they're dictates from the elite, ultra wealthy, power and greed mongers! BOTH SIDES!!! So, to me, it is a fruitless exercise to watch the polarization that comes down, and to listen argue such points. While we do that, they just keep it up, because they are hidden, behind the distraction!! GfS |
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27 Aug 10 - 12:42 AM (#2973743) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: MarkS "But I think that if the Republicans take control of Congress this fall, Obama will be officially defeated in 2012, along with Republicans retaining control of Congress, because of the factors we've already cited ............" But Genie - First, its not clear that repub gains will take place this year. Yea, it looks likely, but November is still a long ways away. Also, 2012 is an eternity away, politically speaking. A more likely scenario would be another dem (Hilary) challenging Obama for the (re)nomination, so the 2012 election would likely be between two people not on the radar screen today. But just for a thought experiment..........Hilary Clinton vs. Sarah Palin? Hope I live long enough to enjoy the comments here if that were to happen! But hey - either way we get our first female president! |
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27 Aug 10 - 02:34 AM (#2973766) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Genie Mark, My prediction about the 2012 election going Republican if Republicans should regain control of Congress this fall is based on the near-total domination that the huge multinational corporations and the well-funded right-wing think tanks and sting-pullers already have on our voting systems and the media and the courts. There is some hope of some push-back against that if the Dems retain power and if -- and this is a huge "if" -- they finally show both some wisdom and some backbone in standing up to those forces. But if the speculation is correct that the moneyed corporations are holding back on letting their cash "trickle down" either until the Republicans regain power or until the recession/depression has run its course, and if the economy bounces back only after the Democrats have been defeated, I don't think it matters who the Dems run in 2012. They will lose. Way too many voters are stupid and gullible and the media exacerbate that by their sloppy and/or biased reporting and commentary. |
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27 Aug 10 - 02:43 AM (#2973769) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Little Hawk You got it, GfS. Neither the Democrats nor the Republicans (those 2 party machines, I mean) can be counted on to EVER do anything real to change the way things are and to truly represent the public. Not a dog's chance in hell. They don't work for the public, they work for the rich elite which funds them. The false and illusory dichotomy between them keeps everyone fighting endlessly amongst themselves over party loyalty, which is exactly why it's so useful for the elite to keep maintaining that mythological "choice" in people's minds. The whole thing is a farce, and I'm amazed anyone still believes in it, but I guess they'd rather believe in a hopeful fairy tale than face the fact that their vote really means just about nothing most of the time. As long as they keep believing in Santa Claus, and backing one of those corrupt parties against the other, they'll just go on blaming it all on "the other party", and the farce will go on and on. Divide and conquer. That's how it's done. |
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27 Aug 10 - 08:01 AM (#2973891) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Bobert I can accept, GfS, the fact that the rich don't wnat to invest in this market... I understand that... That is a rational observation... What is not rational is that the rich need more tax cuts... They are now sitting on piles of cash they really don't have a clue what to with so giving them even more, while also compaining about deficits, is complete insanity... B~ |
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27 Aug 10 - 08:13 AM (#2973897) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: olddude The rumbling you hear all the time ... that is not an earthquake . It is Thomas Jefferson kicking the crap out of his head stone !! Media ... doesn't exist anymore .. Edward R. Murrow or Cronkite that use to give the people the truth .. the unbiased facts have now been replaced with a Lindbaugh, a Beck, Coulter or a guy like Bill Maher. We are all pawns of the corporate machine .. like mushrooms we are kept in the dark, given a diet that they want us to eat ... bullshit as if it was the truth .. I cannot stand the tea baggers .. but ya know what, I completely understand their frustration |
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27 Aug 10 - 08:23 AM (#2973905) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Bobert I believe that both Murrow and Cronkite are kickin', too, Ol'ster... Cronkite said as much before he died... He was terribly disappointed with where media was headed... Now, with the exception of a few oasises what we have is a wasteland of corporate propaganda being pushed off as, ahhhhh, news... B~ |
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27 Aug 10 - 10:42 AM (#2973974) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Genie Thing is, Old Dude, Bill Maher and John Stewart don't make any pretense of being journalists or even political commentators - even though they actually disseminate more real information and are far more "fair and balanced" than Limbaugh, etc., or anyone on Fox "News." But you're right - we really don't have a news media on TV or radio any more, with the possible exception of NPR and PBS, which are themselves both now far too beholden to corporate sponsors for their existence. |
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27 Aug 10 - 10:49 AM (#2973984) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Genie Little Hawk, the problem with your analysis and recommendation ("Why bother voting?") is that that prescription tends to lead not only to Republican victories but the gov't being taken over by the really extreme right wing (e.g., the "Tea Partiers"). Had Al Gore been rightfully installed as President in 2001 there's a good chance the attacks on 9-11-2001 would not have been successful, and even if they had, we wouldn't have invaded Iraq on the pretense that it was somehow justified by the 9-11 attacks. We would not have had corporate shills and reactionaries like John Roberts and Samuel Alito appointed to the Supreme Court and wouldn't have had an outrageous decision like "Citizens United" allowing multinational corporations to spend unlimited $ to affect the outcome of our elections. That's just for a start. Saying there's no difference between the Republicans and Democrats is a bit like saying there's no difference between a 200 lb and a 500 lb woman because "they're both fat." |
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27 Aug 10 - 11:06 AM (#2973999) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Little Hawk: Yo-Ho!! "The false and illusory dichotomy between them keeps everyone fighting endlessly amongst themselves over party loyalty, which is exactly why it's so useful for the elite to keep maintaining that mythological "choice" in people's minds. The whole thing is a farce, and I'm amazed anyone still believes in it,...." You have just articulated my exact position, since the very first moment I came on here, to which, I've been called an assortment of odious names, and weathered some emotionally charged asinine blather, from those, who find it 'self-therapeutic' to project the hatred they harbor within them, out on me!!!! ...and talk about division????...."A double-minded man is unstable in all his ways"---The 'Nazz' AND/OR "The weak accuse others of their own motives"---GfS THANK YOU VERY MUCH, LITTLE HAWK!!! Guest from Sanity P.S. Tell me..umm,..well, ..is it true....(shyly clears throat)..well,..you know...the chimp, and you......you're not....um..you know????....... |
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27 Aug 10 - 01:14 PM (#2974084) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Little Hawk I'm not recommending anything, Genie. I am merely observing and describing a catastrophic political and social decline in a nation that long ago lost touch with reality. I don't place any hopes for the future on that political system. I expect it to just keep on doing what it's been doing and slide further down the road to perdition. If I were an American citizen, then I would hold my nose, go to the polls anyway, and glumly vote for the "lesser of two evils", but at this point I would do it with hardly a shred of hope that it would change much of anything for the better. I'm not saying the Democrats and Republicans are the same. To the contrary, they strike a different outward style (deliberately) and they appeal to different groups of people (deliberately) and that's why their manipulation of the public consciousness is so effective. It has to be done that way to effectively divide and conquer. But....here's the key...they do NOT serve the public. They serve the rich elite which funds and controls them and sets national policy. That rich elite's position is secure as long as the general public are too busy fighting with each other and fearing each other to ever think of joining forces and attacking their real oppressors. And what is the media's role? To keep people endlessly obsessing over bizarre divisive issues (such as building a mosque at Ground Zero, for instance) or ridiculous gossip (Tiger Woods, Brad and Angelina, etc), and make sure people are upset about something all the time, but have no idea what to do about it except spin their wheels and vent. What is required to bring down a system that has gone this far out of whack is a full scale revolution. I don't expect that to happen, because people in the USA aren't desperate enough for it to happen yet. They'd have to be running out of food before they became that desperate. That's what happened in the French Revolution. The price of bread doubled almost overnight, and the general public began facing the imminent possibility of starvation. When that happened thousands of angry people took up arms, stormed the government installations, and the system fell. You can't vote your way out of this one, because the 2 parties you vote for have been bought out. That doesn't mean they're identical. It doesn't mean one might not be worse than the other at some given time, but it means they don't represent you once they're in office. I could despair about the situation, but I don't, and here's why: This sort of thing has happened in many previous empires. Empires come and go. They rise and fall. But life goes on. My future does not depend on the continuance of some form of government. It depends on me. It's in my hands. The power is mine. And that goes for you too. The government will not solve your problems...YOU will solve your problems. The government is just a big noise that won't go away...but it's not a noise I'm much inclined to listen to, because it would be a waste of my time, frankly. There are much more harmonious noises out there to listen to, and one only has a certain amount of time left in which to listen. |
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27 Aug 10 - 01:45 PM (#2974103) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Man, you are on a ROLL!! Now, about that chimp......I mean, I'nm not exactly jealous, ...but, well, I mean...umm......just tell me, pul-leeeeze, just tell me....it's not true...............is it?? GfS |
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27 Aug 10 - 01:57 PM (#2974112) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: olddude It is amazing, on the nightly news, the opening line is Tiger Woods Ex and what she was feeling and how betrayed she was yada yada. We have wars going on, natural and man made disasters, the states are bankrupt and the opening line is a cheating golfer and his EX .. wow how low the we have sunk .. and we all allow it to happen .. take what the talking heads say as the truth .. Fox news with the sound bite that caused that good black lady to lose her job from something out of context without merit, without research .. it was plastered all over the news ... and what was it in reality .. a political statement to get people fired up against the Democrats that are in power at the moment .. That is what corporate news is today a half truth watered down political action committee to garner votes in a matter consistent with corporate political views. Thank God we still have PBS .. at least to some degree it is as close to the real facts as one can hope for today and that ain't saying much |
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27 Aug 10 - 02:16 PM (#2974124) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: akenaton "I could despair about the situation, but I don't, and here's why: This sort of thing has happened in many previous empires. Empires come and go. They rise and fall. But life goes on. My future does not depend on the continuance of some form of government. It depends on me. It's in my hands. The power is mine. And that goes for you too. The government will not solve your problems...YOU will solve your problems. The government is just a big noise that won't go away...but it's not a noise I'm much inclined to listen to, because it would be a waste of my time, frankly. There are much more harmonious noises out there to listen to, and one only has a certain amount of time left in which to listen." Wish I had written that.... They didn't listen, they're not listening still.....I guess they never will."(Vincent...Don Mclean) |
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27 Aug 10 - 02:32 PM (#2974132) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Bobert No vote = a Repub vote... No two ways about it and... ...100!!! B~ |
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27 Aug 10 - 03:01 PM (#2974149) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Little Hawk Heh! Adroitly done, Bobert. You win a chocolate Dachshund. |
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27 Aug 10 - 04:02 PM (#2974180) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Little hawk: "Heh! Adroitly done, Bobert. You win a chocolate Dachshund." For the wisdom of the post, or reaching 100??? GfS |
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27 Aug 10 - 05:33 PM (#2974241) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Bobert Both!!! But keep the mut, thank you, unless you find one with, ahhhhh, legs... lol... B~ |
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27 Aug 10 - 07:01 PM (#2974296) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Bobs: "But keep the mut, thank you, unless you find one with, ahhhhh, legs... lol..." Try getting a point of view with legs. GfS |
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27 Aug 10 - 09:50 PM (#2974364) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Genie Bobert, you are SO right! That WAS post # 100! And also, "No vote = a Repub vote." Hawk, the problem with most revolutions - the one in 1776 possibly being a notable exception - is that they tend to result in tyrannical excesses every bit as oppressive as the ones they overthrow. Just tyrannies that oppress a somewhat different group. |
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27 Aug 10 - 10:37 PM (#2974375) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Bill D A Semi-Revolution By Robert Frost "I advocate a semi-revolution. The trouble with a total revolution (Ask any reputable Rosicrucian) Is that it brings the same class up on top. Executives of skillful execution Will therefore plan to go halfway and stop. Yes, revolutions are the only salves, But they’re one thing that should be done by halves." an answer...by Oscar Williams (I didn't find this online anywhere...I had to dig it out of an old book.."The Silver Treasury of Light Verse") edited BY Oscar Williams A Total Revolution (an answer for Robert Frost) "I advocate a total revolution. The trouble with semi-revolution, It's likely to be slow as evolution. Who wants to spend the ages in collusion With Compromise, Complacence and Confusion? As for the same class coming up on top, That's whole cloth from the propaganda shop; The old saw says there's loads of room on top, That's where the poor should really plan to stop. And speaking of those people called the "haves", Who own the whole cow and must have the calves (And plant the wounds so they can sell the salves) They wont be stopped by doing things by halves. I say that for a permanent solution There's nothing like a total revolution. P.S. And may I add by way of a conclusion, I wouldn't dream to ask a Rosicrucian." |
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27 Aug 10 - 11:21 PM (#2974387) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCGYlEOVzUw&feature=related |
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28 Aug 10 - 04:16 AM (#2974449) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: akenaton Why home in on "revolution" genie?.... as if that was an answer to what Hawk was saying There are many types of revolution....we need a revolution in political thought. We believe our governments act in our interests.....they certainly do not, we pay for their greed and recklessness, our sons and daughters die in their wars, yet we still convince ourselves that one wing is better than the other. Our governments are there to act in the interests of those who finance them, not those who elect them. The answer as Hawk says, is in the hearts and minds of individuals, whenever we are herded to left or right the answer becomes blurred, we begin to take the bovine view often seen in these pages. We have become lazy, both physically and intellectually. Time to wake up I think! |
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28 Aug 10 - 08:23 AM (#2974516) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Bobert As in "Animal House", the semi-revolution is no more that rearranging the deck chairs and no revolution at all... But a "complete revolution", at least as we know them from history (think 1918 Russia, for instance) is no longer possible in the countries where it is needed the most, like the US... The so-called revolutions in 3rd world countries are really the semi variety... We don't see much difference after the genocides than before them... I think what the US is facing is an attempted semi-revolution by TV commentarors who really know nuthin' about governance, urban planning or the ins and outs of how to get the day-to-day mondane things to work properly... Yes, these people may think that "if only" they had the power then things would be better... Not so... Our society is too modern for them to make a difference... So given that they really know nuthing about governance or planning or the nuts'n bolts of running a city or county what we would have is even worse than what we had with Bush... I mean, I hate to say it but George Bush was much better qualified to run the show than Glen Beck... Yet it is the Glen Becks who think they have all the answers... I donno... Yeah, we need a revolution but maybe we can pull, it off peacefully with a better education... It's obvious that our educational sysytem has not produced a population that understands "critical thinking" and therefore is vulnerable to zealots and strict ideologues... Mush like the horses in "Animal Farm"... So, I guess, the revolution we need is the restoration of "critical thinking" in our school system... That's a good first step... B~ |
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28 Aug 10 - 01:13 PM (#2974635) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Genie Akenaton, our "government" in the US is largely as corrupt and inefficient as "we, the people" let it be. When we act as individuals, most of us have little power, but when we pool our efforts and resources we can accomplish a lot. If we don't get involved in our own political system, we let the private power brokers run the whole show. And I don't recall any non-violent populist movement in history being called a "revolution" (except maybe, metaphorically, in the arts). OK, there was the "industrial revolution," but that wasn't a political one, either - just a turning point in the way humans in some parts of the world manufactured things. So when people speak of "revolution," it seems they're usually talking about some sort of violent uprising (or at least taking up arms to defend against a tyrannical government). |
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28 Aug 10 - 03:30 PM (#2974722) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Stringsinger Genie, I take your point. Revolution has always had an interpretation of violence attached to it. Perhaps a better word would be "non-violent movement" as in opposition to the Vietnam War. (Also opposition to the Iraq and Afghan wars as well). The problem with Repubs is that they take a narrow authoritarian view of government and are generally pro-war. Anti-war activists are reviled by Repubs. They also support the malfeasance of corporations such as Big Pharma, Oil Companies, Wall Street and the Military Industrial Complex. The "reasonable" Republican is an endangered species. There have been some but they have been co-opted or maybe a better term would be "hijacked" by reactionary leadership of their Party. George Lakoff has identified and worked with the problem of authoritarianism versus a nurturing view of politics in society. (Unfortunately I am unable to find a site for Lakoff's Rockbridge Institute which is doing great work. Hope they're still in business.) Some are what Lakoff calls "biconceptuals"...they have an authoritarian way of life but ascribe to liberal (nurturing) ideas and vice versa. There are Republicans who are like this. Unfortunately the economic policies (or lack of them) in Republican circles could spell disaster for the economy. George W. Bush created the conditions for our economic woes today by weakening government agencies such as the SEC as well as all the other agencies under his administration which were sold out to corporate malfeasance. A GOP economic policy would be a continuation of the disastrous Bush years. Clinton must bear responsibility however for dismantling Glass/Steagal. John Roberts of the Supreme Court is the reason corporate power will influence elections in the future by his specious ruling on "Citizens United". The GOP supports this without hesitation. In short, if the Republicans gain power, the US is in for some very rough times. |
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28 Aug 10 - 07:36 PM (#2974862) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Bobert Exactly, strings... A very narrow view and one from which they "proclaim" is not negotiable... Reminds me of Isreal's pre-conditions before they will negotiate... Hey, we ain't gonna fix nuthin' until the Repubs get it that "it ain't all about them"... They make up, what??? 25% of the poulation??? Yet they act as if they are 100% of the population... That's some very rigid thinking... You know, like the Taliban... BTW, I don't know of any progressives who aren't willing to sit down and say, "Let's put all the cards on the table and go from there" but this cares the Hell out of the Repubs and the right because it's going to mean they are going to have to, ahhhhh, think!!! HORRORS, NO!!! We don't wnat to think!!! We don't know how to think!!! Please don't ask us to think!!! B~ |
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28 Aug 10 - 09:46 PM (#2974913) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Genie Well said, Stringsinger. |
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28 Aug 10 - 10:40 PM (#2974933) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Bobert Plus, looks at just how messed up the Repubs can get things when they ain't even power??? |
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28 Aug 10 - 11:21 PM (#2974942) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Thread question: "What Would a Repub Admin be Like?" Like a 'right' jab after a 'left' hook. GfS |
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29 Aug 10 - 01:01 AM (#2974958) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Little Hawk Exactly! ;-) First the Republicans smack you right between the eyes with a vicious right. "Those bastards!", you think. "I'll fix them." You vote Democratic. Then the Democrats nail you with a left hook. ARRGH! You hit the mat for a five count. If you really hate the Republicans so badly that you just can't admit you just got hit by the Democrats, then you get up, pretend it was an accident, and right about then you get a solid left kick to the balls by the Democrats. This time you go down even harder. By the time you're on your feet again you are too confused to even focus, so it's really easy for the Republicans to deliver another vicious RIGHT that lays you out flat as a flounder. And the game goes on.... ;-) They win, you lose. They alternate punches, you absorb the damage. You are the invisible punching bag that stands between those 2 parties and takes the hits. Afterward you fight with the rest of the eqully punchdrunk and battered audience about it, and blame the half who bet on the other guy to win. You get to fight about it with the other audience members for four years...till the next heavyweight championship bout. |
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29 Aug 10 - 09:10 AM (#2975117) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Bobert If having the courage to try to reform our health care system under heavy fire with potentially career ending possibilities for having done so is a "left" hook then keep 'um comin'... Hey, don't get me wrong... I knocked on doors and worker precincts for many years of the Green Party and I know ya'll's (GfinS and LH) company fight song real well having sung if for a couple three decades but... ... in the words of Jethro Tull, "It was a new day yesterday, it's an old day now"... I other words, defaultin' back to the "company fight song" is a tad on the intellectually lazy side... I mean, here's the deal which really has nothin' to do with "Both the Same" mentality... One party is hell bent on doing some very irresponsible things like cutting taxes one one hand and talking about fighting the deficit on the other... But, hey, that is not only irresponsible and insane but flies in the face of modern economic theory... Ya' see, we do have a choice... We can use 17th century thinking and apply the leeches or we can use modern medicine... There was a time when people didn't think (???) of leeches but seems that the Repubs are ready and willing to give them another try??? Meanwhile, the Mudville Twiidle-dee and Twiddle-dum (ya'll pick) keep playin' on as the Titanic takes on more and more water??? Hmmmmmm??? B~ |
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29 Aug 10 - 09:21 AM (#2975125) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Greg F. How some folks cling tenaciously to the persistent delusion that there's "no difference" between the 2 major U.S. Politcal parties in spite of conclusive evidence to the contrary. There is no point in trying to conduct an intelligent discussion with one so deluded. Don't try to change their minds with facts. |
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29 Aug 10 - 10:23 AM (#2975166) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Bobert Exactly, Greg... But it's alot easier to do an old song than learn a new one... Here's what people are leaving out of the discussion... Ever since the New Deal there has been a group of people hell-bent on reversing it, just like a woman's right to choose... So they came up with this "Starve the Beast" strategy were they bankrupt the federal government and then hold up their arms and say "Geezem ya'll... We're sorry but we have run outta money... We have seen every Republican administration going back 30 years try to do just that: bankrupt the federal government... George Bush will also be a hero in that circle 'cause he almost pulled it off... The only thing that saved the government was that Bush ran out of time... Another 6 months and he would have pl;unged a stake thru the heart and the righties would have been poppin' the corks... To Wit: Now you have Repub saying that allowing the Bush tax cuts (starve the beast) to expire is "job'killing"... Huh??? The Fat Cats are sitting on at least $1.8T they won't invest now in jobs but the cuurent batch or Repubs, inspite of tax rates being lower than anytime in the last 40 years, say that if the rich jujst had more money then thry'd create jobs??? Sheet fire, ya'll... Some real messed up thinking here if we're dealing with reality... But, if the goal is to "Starve the Beast" then bring it on!!! And the moronish Tea Partiers, who will be hurt the most, are steppin' to plate and standing up for the "starve the beasters"??? So, fir ya'll who wanta sit on the side line and sing the "Both Sides Blues", have at it... Just know in doing so your vote is for bankrupting the federal government and killing the New Deal... Speakin' of deals??? That's the real deal... B~ |
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29 Aug 10 - 10:31 AM (#2975169) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: olddude No there is a big difference between the philosophy of the two parties. Which is why I vote Democrat. But my point is this. Both have way too many ties to big corporations and special interests to make me comfortable. I would be very happy if some grass roots person who just wants to do the right thing and not take all the pac money would rise to a level by which they can actually do something good without having any IOU's to any special interest .. that is all I wish for |
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29 Aug 10 - 11:48 AM (#2975203) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Greg F. Both have way too many ties to big corporations and special interests to make me comfortable. No argument there! I would be very happy if some grass roots person who just wants to do the right thing and not take all the pac money would rise to a level by which they can actually do something good without having any IOU's to any special interest .. that is all I wish for You & me both, but the way things are currently constituted, ain't gonna happen. That's what campaign Finance Reform was supposed to be about - until the Bushite-Packed Supreme Court decided that Money = Speech, Slavery = Freedom & other Orwellian pronouncements. |
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29 Aug 10 - 12:08 PM (#2975214) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Bobert BTW, what I didn't say with was implied is that with George Bush ***almost*** "starving the beast" another Repub administration right now would take US right back to where Bush ran outta time... In other words: Kiss Medicare and Social Security, as we know it, goodbye!!! That is the goal here for these people... Not so funny thing is that the "starve the beasters" are now 3rd generation having had this strategy handed down from their daddies and granddaddies and I'm not too sure that the current crop has even thought things thru??? There's an expression "You don't miss the water until the well runs dry" and killing the New Deal has imlpications that are far reaching that the current crop of righties aren't ven considering... Like, most old people on Social Security spend that money on everyday products that "Boss Hog" produces... Take that money outta the economy and those sales are gone forever... But the "starve the beasters" have no grasp of modern economics and really can't think beyond their bumper sticker mentalities... B~ |
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29 Aug 10 - 01:06 PM (#2975257) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Little Hawk I have repeatedly said that the Democractic and Republican parties are NOT identical, but that the essential problem is that they both serve entrenched corporate interests because those are the primary interests that FUND them. Because of this, they do not and cannot truly serve the public. Why do you not get that????????????????? They don't need to be "identical" to both fail to serve YOU once they are elected. I have always preferred the Democrats to the Republicans, and I would virtually always vote for them rather than the Republicans, I can hardly imagine a circumstance where I would vote Republican, but I know darned well that once either of those parties are in office, they will betray the hopes of most of the people who voted for them. Listen to me. READ my lips. The Democrats and Republicans are NOT identical. NOT identical. NOT identical. NOT identical. But they are both extremely corrupt. The Republicans are, in my opinion, the worse of the two. But they are both corrupt. Print this post out. Glue it on your monitor. So you don't forget that I have clearly said "The Democrats and Republicans are NOT identical. NOT identical. NOT identical." Refer back to it when you need a reminder. |
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29 Aug 10 - 01:19 PM (#2975260) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Bobert Okay, LH... If yer gonna go "bold" on us I'll move you into the "Kinda both the same" category... That make you happy??? Of course, it's gonna break up the LH/GfinS duo with you singin' a half step under her... Or not... Maybe she'll retune??? Nah... B;~) |
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29 Aug 10 - 01:22 PM (#2975262) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: olddude I think Little Hawk was just trying to say exactly what I did and many other folks .. yes they are different and yes there are still to many special interests in both parties to be comfortable with either .. never once thought he was saying they were the same .. but glad LH you made it clear to folks |
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29 Aug 10 - 01:38 PM (#2975273) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Bobert You just haven't read enough of LH, Ol'ster... He goes from "Both the same" to "Kinda the same" like changing unerwear... |
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29 Aug 10 - 01:59 PM (#2975288) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Amos Coupla times a year, need it or not... |
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29 Aug 10 - 03:49 PM (#2975349) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Bobs: "Of course, it's gonna break up the LH/GfinS duo with you singin' a half step under her... Or not... Maybe she'll retune???" If, by a 'duo', you mean, 'just now, for the sake of argument', I think you are tone deaf, because of the loud voices in your head yelling, 'Division through animosity for the other party', has drowned out the obvious tune! I'm quite sure, Little Hawk is an individual thinker, as I, and not taken into letting others do his thinking for him. When two individual minds, see the same thing, and are in agreement about it, and they are your friends, you might want to tell the 'voices' to 'quiet down', and consider what we are saying. I cannot find any motive within me, to deceive you. Both 'parties' are corrupt, and do not represent neither, the will, nor intent of the genuine concerns, of their 'faithful' believers....over their own self interests, which have far more to do with their personal gain....than the well-being of you or me. They are only interested in us, to the degree in which WE, can keep them in the game! Got it?? I know, it's both sad, and frustrating! For what it's worth: Was in town the other day, joining some people for a small gathering, and the topic was working it's way into politics...After a bit of quiet listening and 'just being there', I was asked, "Hey, what party do you belong to?" To which I just said, "Oh, I'm not with the party, I'm with the band!" GfS |
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29 Aug 10 - 04:04 PM (#2975369) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Amos A good answer, GfS! A |
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29 Aug 10 - 05:40 PM (#2975415) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Bobert Problem is GfinS that, as I have said over and over... How can one not be hearing the "other side"... It owns purdy much the entire media and their story comes thru daily like a freight train... It is blasted at us like a flame thrower... What isn't being heard is the truth about the very serious issues involving the economy, jobs and social juastice.. What is beig heard is the Rupert Murdocks, the Glen Becks, and the John Beonhers take on whatever issues they decide they he want to put forth from day to day... B~ |
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29 Aug 10 - 05:51 PM (#2975421) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Stringsinger I think LH is right. He has summarized it well. The U.S. is fast becoming a"corporatocracy" whereby elections are being bought and sold and privatized by voting machines owned by...guess who.....corporations. John Roberts with his Supreme Court Citizens United ruling has exacerbated the problem and done damage to our system of government. But the two Parties are different. There is no one in the GOP who has come out against the Iraq and Afghanistan debacles. There are Dems who have. That is a huge difference. A Republican Administration would be a sell-out to malfeasant corporations and the Defense Contractors. The U.S. would be embroiled in a never-ending war and the Contractors would be making money from it with the GOP blessing. They would be in lock-step here. There are Dems who would buck this system. They are not as prevalent as I would like to see them be, however, they are in the Democratic Party and not in the GOP. |
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29 Aug 10 - 05:57 PM (#2975426) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Thanks, Amos.......I thought it was pretty good, myself! GfS |
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29 Aug 10 - 06:10 PM (#2975436) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: akenaton Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the Dems vote to support Geordie's war?.....cowards as well as knaves! Obama's lady in waiting is well known for her warlike characteristics. Obama himself has continued to fund Iraq and Afghanistan, especially the development and deployment of the disgusting "drone"weapons technology. Pacifist Dems.....Aye right!! |
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29 Aug 10 - 06:22 PM (#2975444) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Stringsinger Yes, but there is a difference in that there are Dems who have decried these policies within their same Party. The GOP has been in lockstep on these issues. Actually there are in the minority Dems who don't go along with the military policies. Their voice is as important as those who have caved-in to the propaganda. We should be grateful that there are Dem voices (albeit in the minority) who are not afraid to speak out against America's newest foray into "Manifest Destiny". These voices are absent in the GOP. |
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29 Aug 10 - 06:56 PM (#2975458) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: akenaton In the UK we had the equivalent of the Dems in Mr Blairs "New Labour" There were a handful of dissenters to his support of Bush, but they were quickly marginalised, forced to resign, or dismissed from the party. Most politicians owe allegiance to self preservation and the system, rather than the electorate, or any "airy fairy" philosophy like pacifism |
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29 Aug 10 - 07:31 PM (#2975474) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Bobert Actually, Ake, there was alot of push back from alot of Dems on invading Iraq... Not enough but not just token opposition either... The problem was back then that Bush still hqad the flag and 9/11 to wrap everything he wanted to do in so it was really hard to break ranks but Google it up and you'll see there was a decent amount of no votes from the Dems given that climate... All of which adds to Strings observation that the Dems tend to be more free thinkers in that they rarely do that GOP goose-lock-step... B~ |
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29 Aug 10 - 10:34 PM (#2975594) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Hmm...I guess, the fact that factions of both parties, who brought you such wonderful fairy tales as "The Warren Report", the "911 Report", the attack on the USS Vincennes'(that formally brought us into the Vietnam mess), the reasoning to attack Iraq, when most of the terrorists came from Saudi Arabia, Katrina and BP oil spill responses, Kent State, Iran-Contra, Panama, CIA involvement in the drug trade, the border mess, (need I go on?) ALL had the support of BOTH parties, depending on who wanted what! Case in point: Arlen Sphincter,(D-R-D-R?) of Pa. years ago, is seen holding up the bullet, that was found on JFK's gurney, from Parkland Memorial Hospital, thus 'PROVING' the 'single bullet' theory. I think most of you may remember the photo. So the bullet, goes through JFK's head, through Connolly's car seat, into Gov. Connolly....and falls out of JFK's head, on the gurney, at the hospital!?!?..thus proving JFK, was shot with a single bullet, and Sphincter is working for who?????...all is quieted, and you can all go back to sleep! Now, it's the Mosque issue, in New York...INSTEAD of how in the fuck are we going to pay off the debt, run up by Bush/Obama??????? Who has a plan, and what is it???....and about the unemployment?....NO, let's all get emotionally heated, in your respected corners, and debate the mosque!!!...And these silly fucks are representing YOU?????????? Oh, the same Arlen Sphincter, who switches parties, around voting time on the 'health care' bill...Who are you?? Who do you really work for???......and just what do you want us to believe...to distract us from paying attention to what?!?!? Let's All Argue!!!...........................................chumps! GfS |
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29 Aug 10 - 10:46 PM (#2975605) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: MarkS GfS "the attack on the USS Vincennes'(that formally brought us into the Vietnam mess" I think the ships were the Maddox and Turner Joy, but your point is nevertheless valid. LBJ was later quoted (sorry,, I do not remember the source) that "For all I knew the navy was shooting at whales out there." Mark |
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29 Aug 10 - 11:00 PM (#2975613) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Mark, you might be correct, on those, but I think it was the Vincennes in the Gulf of Tonkin.....but it's really a non-issue, if you remember the incident, that's what matters. Both parties supported the 'effort'....as the 'China White' flowed into our country, and Coke from Central America, and smack from Afghanistan, and Pakistan. I don't trust these assholes, any of them, as far as I can throw my piano!!,,,((My guitars are lighter!) GfS |
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29 Aug 10 - 11:06 PM (#2975616) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: MarkS GfS Found it. The Vincennes was the ship which shot down the Iranian airliner in July of 88, which later led to the Lockerbie airliner bombing. |
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29 Aug 10 - 11:08 PM (#2975617) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity ...Oh, and I forgot, all the coke and drugs form Mexico....BESIDES the 'other industries' paying them off to fuck over our country, while they rifle the treasury, and get the population strung out!...and import CRAP from China and third world countries...for the sake of profit, and pay-offs....I know!..Let's raise some more taxes..that'll do it...we'll even lie about that, and the public will swallow it, till it comes 'PAY TIME'!!!..Then We'll get them to argue about it, and whose 'fault' it was and take their eyes off the real criminals!!!!! GfS |
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29 Aug 10 - 11:11 PM (#2975619) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Thanks Mark, for the clarification... GfS |
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30 Aug 10 - 08:51 AM (#2975811) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Bobert I have absolutely no problem with GfinS's historical perspective here... Unfortunatly, most of us were witness to alot of it... That's why I jumped outta the Democratic Party after JC and over the years worked and voted for 3rd parties, mostly the Green Party... That is not at issue here... What is at issue is just how close the Repubs came to destroying/bankrupting the federal government under Bush... The scarey part is that Bush followed the exact path that Ronnie Reagan had blazed and so the Repubs fully understand how to "strave the beast" and bring it to it's knees... So if we are talkig here about "What Would a Repub Admin be Like? then we really don't have to look far at what the Repubs goals are and first and formost it's "entitlements"... Now that sounds like a decent enough goal until we strip of the sugarcaot and find that means federal money for wastefull (in their thinking) things such as: *federal aid to eductaion *Social Security *Medicare *Medicaid This isn't over-reaching or scare tactics on my part because they have said as mcuh... Heck, George Bush made a major push toward privatizing Social Security... So, back to GfinS's list of the bad thngs the Dems ***have*** done in the past... Yeah, they ***have*** and shame on them but... ...right now, under these current circumstances and given the real threat from the extreme right, this ol' Green Party activist is more than willing to support the Dems who have shown thru their courage in passing the ***imperfcet*** health care reform bill that they may eb the last wall of defense from the Repubs finishing Bush's "starving of the beast"... What would a Repub administion look like??? Ever see the movie "Blade Runner" or "Mad Max, After the Thunderdome"??? I mean, here's the Repubs ideal world: *30% poverty rates for everyone ***but them***... *vast homelessness and/or 15 people living in one 3 bedroom house for everyone ***but them***... *20% unemployement for everyone ***but them***... *10 year reduction in life expectancy for everyone ***but them***... Those are just starters but they are purdy much been the ideal America of the old school Repubs who have passed down their hatred of FDR and the New Deal and I'm not sure that the current generation quite gets the ramifications of the goal that ***daddy and grand-daddy*** have passed down to them but those are the goals, none the less... B~ |
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30 Aug 10 - 12:13 PM (#2975946) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Bobs: "So, back to GfinS's list of the bad thngs the Dems ***have*** done in the past... Yeah, they ***have*** and shame on them but...." Bobert, I'm not laying the blame on the Democrats exclusively. Either you took it wrong, or you are misinterpreting what I believe I clearly said, and echoed by Little Hawk. This is NOT a SINGLE party effort or policy....This is the result of our country's system, being hijacked by the corruption, of absolutely crooked, and agenda driven climbers of power, who are working through BOTH parties, and deceiving the public, at large, as to their goals and methods...and exactly who they are, and WHAT they represent!! Here, you like small lists, check this out, and compare them to the problems now: The Federal Reserve..and all their cronies, including Geitner, Reuben, Kissinger, Poulsen and Poulson, Gingrich just to name a few....JFK, was wanting to abolish the Fed, and signed a directive toward that, about 40 days before he was shot. Defense..He Authorized, and set into commission the US Navy SEALS, as a result of the 'Bay of Pigs' fiasco. He, personally NEVER signed a civil rights bill(surprise to many), however under he and Bobby, things were beginning to go that way! Bobby went after Union corruption, and really pissed of the organized crime syndicates who were climbing up the power structure, and using the Unions as a vehicle. Thirty days, before Dallas, signer a directive that we were NOT going to further any actions in Vietnam, and to withdraw. In Gulf of Tonkin, was discovered MAJOR oil reserves, which conflicted with the oil companies, as to the 'interests' of 'freeing' southeast Asia. The illegal drug markets were smaller then, and attitudes about the use of drugs were far less, than today, but organized crime, though divided, at that time, had the market....now look at them! Borders were defined and defended. The CIA were at the early stages, of meshing with the organized crime elements, as a result of Castro overtaking Cuba, and offered their 'help' in 1959, meeting with Meyer Lansky's guy, Santos Trafficante, and Vice President Richard Nixon, Fontainbleu Hotel, Miami Florida, in an effort to re-take Cuba, and because of the organized crime's 'business interests' in Cuba,(read prostitution and gambling resorts), to form a 'co-operative' group made of elements of the intelligence community, and the crime syndicate.(Boy,!! I could go on about that one!!..including the Cuban 'burglars' at the Watergate Hotel!) Anything in that list jump out at ya'??? Now we are living in the aftermath, and blaming, perfectly well- meaning and well-intentioned brothers, and citizens, of hate, bigotry, radicalism, etc etc, for unknowingly believing, what they think is true, and in the best interests of their country...when in fact, the just had the wool pulled over their eyes. Bobert, A great deal of the policies and issues that have arisen as of the recent years, are total bullshit. The average citizen, your neighbors, don't give a rat's ass about these issues, that really don't even affect them...other than the fact, that they get their noses rubbed in it..and now HAVE to have an opinion!!...about an 'issue' that never even touches them!!! Meanwhile, the 'scavengers of power' pick through the rubble of what is left, that they can help themselves to, in the remnant of this once great, and compassionate country. Does what I posted here sound 'Right wing", Left wing'? political party oriented??? Hell No!..Its just what we are left with. Meanwhile, we can all help each other out as much as we can, person to person..............................till that becomes a threat, too...or unless they can figure a way to tax it, and put a license fee on it, and make it illegal, unless you're with a government agency that does it! Fuck THEM! Peace, to you! GfS PEACE! |
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30 Aug 10 - 02:07 PM (#2976034) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Stringsinger It would be a total disaster for the US. A Republican Administration would be authoritarian, verging on totalitarian, and a gutting of the most important Federal help implemented by FDR. It would mean (if it hasn't happened already as some argue) a takeover of the government by corporations which is a classic definition of fascism. It would mean continued monitoring and harassment of anyone critical of the Administration's policies (as seen exemplified by the Bush years) and the rise of the misuse of police force to enforce this monitoring and abolish peaceful protest. The use of weaponry on the streets would not be curbed but encouraged by a misreading of the Second Amendment and lobbyists for the NRA. "Trickle-down" economics would result in deflation and division of economic classes of people (have-and-have-nots). Important government programs would be cut. The US has already lost its industrial base because of the activities of the GOP and Wall Street. This would continue and the US would have (as it does now) its chief export, arms and weapons. Social services would be impotent. (Some argue that they already are). If Dems get in, there might be a chance that some of the more level-headed minority ideas in Congress and the Senate could prevail even if that looks bleak. If the GOP gets in, forget unions, minimum wage, social safety net, job growth, and expect more sabre-rattling. |
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30 Aug 10 - 02:21 PM (#2976051) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Strinsiger: "If the GOP gets in, forget unions,....." Besides, you missing the point, I'd like to inquire:.......Being as the 'PARTY LINE' is pro union...Let's see a show of hands, of how many musicians in here, belong to their local musicians union!!!??!!...and if so, just what have they done for you??? For what it's worth, and to 'prime the tip jar', I did once belong to one....as useless as it was!(about 35-40 years ago). GfS |
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30 Aug 10 - 05:21 PM (#2976214) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: akenaton "The US has already lost its industrial base because of the activities of the GOP and Wall Street." Sorry, but the US and UK have lost their indusrial bases through the evolution of capitalism.....as inevitably as night follows day capitalism will always find new and cheaper resources and people to exploit. Just as our manufacturing industries became unsustainable due to high labour and raw material costs, so our hugely expensive benefits, healthcare and public service systems will become unsustainable as the capitalists and their money head East. The problem is in the economic system. The political parties should shoulder blame, but only in failing to inform the people of the true nature and inevitable evolution of capitalism. |
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30 Aug 10 - 05:41 PM (#2976231) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Hi Akenaton!... Ake: "Just as our manufacturing industries became unsustainable due to high labour and raw material costs, so our hugely expensive benefits, health care and public service systems will become unsustainable as the capitalists and their money head East. The problem is in the economic system." Perhaps all this focus(read: fuck us), on bullshit politics, which have been corrupted till its rotted through and through, has stifled innovation, and capital investments toward new energies, transportation, technologies. Both the rise of union crap and the exploitation of cheap labor in third world countries, because the unions have risen costs beyond its worth, through political relaxing of regulations, may play a part in it to. Any system CAN work, it's the guys at the top, who are often handed control, rather than earned it, through legal, and/or morally ethical means, is the lightening rod of distrust! Still waiting some 'pro-union Folkies' 'Bluegrassers' and Blues players on Mudcat to pop up. Seems like they making BIG issues of somethings they don't even believe in, when it comes to joining one!! But it's the principle, and I'm so cruel. (Now, Ebbie doesn't have to tell me). GfS |
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30 Aug 10 - 06:21 PM (#2976258) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: akenaton Hi Sanity.....you've been makin' a lot of nice posts lately. Always knew you had talent!.....:0) |
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30 Aug 10 - 06:47 PM (#2976280) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Bobert The reason the the US has lost it's economic base is because the corportists found it more profitable to use foriegn "scab" labor and has thus all but killed the unions here in the US... And their lobbiests manipulated the tax codes to allow foriegn countries to build infastructure and plants that are not considedered assests of theose corporation and therefire not taxable??? WTF is that about... China can spend $500M on a plant in China for a IS corporation, hand it over to the corpoartion and it is not a taxable asset??? That is insane... How can American workers compete against that... There is no level playing filed at all... That should answer GfinS's question about how amny muscians are currently union members... If the country has strong unions then they work for the working class... If they don't have strong unions then Boss Hog sleeps well at night... Talent, Ake??? At what??? BSing her way around the fact that her recriminations of the Democratic Party goinf back decades gives her the right to say that both parties are corrupt and therefore no reason to now, in the face of disaster, just sit back and watch it happen... Kinda like the 60's when we just sat back and watched the right wing assasin our movement??? Nah, Akr, ol' buddy... You need to study up on what the GfinSers of the world will bring with that arrogance to reality... Rereas what Strings said... Reread what I have said... We can't survive another Repub administration right now... Like we used to say in thew 60s, "yer either part of the problem or yer part of the solution"... The GfinSers ain't part of the solution... Nuff said... (fir now)... B~ |
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30 Aug 10 - 10:06 PM (#2976393) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Bobert: ". Kinda like the 60's when we just sat back and watched the right wing assasin our movement???" JFK was considered a conservative...and far more so, by today's standards. He also cut taxes to stimulate the economy....totally the opposite of the Demorapic agenda. Go figure.....or at least Go think! GfS P.S. At present, its just a big 'free for all'. Both sides are shot to shit! |
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30 Aug 10 - 10:31 PM (#2976399) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Bobert Doesn't much matter what JFK was labeled as... You go into just about any rural home from slim-pickin's backgrounds in the South, where poverty is an equal opportunity curse and the one thing you'll notice on the wall, black and white, is a framed picture of JFK... Ya' see, ya' can't wrap everything up neatly in academia or labels... I been in one shitload of these folks houses over the years and I have seen it in their faces and their stories and what JFK meant to that generation was nothin' more than "hope"... Was JFK a liberal by today's standards??? Nah... But... ...today??? We face a real mess... "Voodoo economics" has caught up with US and the Repubs want another round of it??? Kinda like the guy who just got shot at Mickey's Blues Shack telling the doctor to sew him up 'cause he's going back for more??? I mean, there is some seriously messed up thinkin' here, GfinS, and seems like you and yer bud, LH, think it's okay to sit back and watch the potential disaster and if it happens and it is the Rapture or whatever the right wants, then you and LH gonna just sit back in yer armchairs and say "Far fuckin' out"??? Huh??? A or B... No C... I mean, ya'll can just go playin' that song on the for-deck as the Titanic goes down... Wish there were any other options that have any ties to reality... Kinda too late for that... B~ |
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31 Aug 10 - 12:36 AM (#2976440) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Bobert: "Ya' see, ya' can't wrap everything up neatly in academia or labels..." Bobert: "...Was JFK a liberal...." Bobert: "Voodoo economics" has caught up with US and the Repubs....." Bobert: "...LH, think it's okay to sit back and watch the potential disaster and if it happens...." Well, to answer the last comment, first: "Sitting back??" NO, I'm trying to communicate with someone who is "neatly in academia, and labels", sometimes MIS-labeling, the actual CAUSE of the "disaster", though accurately felt, as to the bummer! The evolution of this mess was a direct hit, on us, by those, corrupting, and working through BOTH parties! What??..I got to shake and slap you, and yell "WAKE UP!!" ARE either of them bringing about anything, but more of the bummer??? (Cupping hands around the mouth, taking a large breath) NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! TAKE A LOOK! Your Palsie-Walsie, GfS |
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31 Aug 10 - 08:57 AM (#2976607) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Bobert And your choice, GfinS??? I mean, Palsis-Walsie... Yeah, in a perfect world there would be a "C"... Yeah, given that Bill Clinton was part of this 30 year assault on the New Deal it's awfully hard to hold one's nose and for for Dems... No, make that vote against Repubs... But doing nuthin' but bash the poor folks who are willing to hold their nose and work to stop the Repubs from drivin' those last few nails in the New Deal coffin ain't exactly the most responsible thing to do either... One more tax reduction, after almost 30 years of our tax system becoming more and more regressive, for the wealthy is a formula for disaster... Lotta folks want to complicate Economics 101 and what you get is exactly what we have... Econ ain't that tough... I mean, even the poorest of families get it... You got bills that you can't pay then you try to earn "mo money"... Purdy simple... (Ain't that simple, Boberdz... You could jus' quit spending...) Ahhhhhhh... There you have it... What to cut??? Those nasty "earmarks"... Well, okay... But they represent less than 1% of the federal budget... Hmmmmmm??? What to cut, part 2... The Defense budget??? A Repub administration would consider that to be the 3rd rail... What's left... Oh, them communist programs of FDRs... The problem, as I see it, is that with the Repubs being so dependent of the narrow minded following that they have brough along that, if in power, these Repubs wouldn't have the courage to styand up to these highly emotional gun totin' "true believers" so the Repubs wouldn't say to the Dems, "Let's sit down and see if we can work this out", much as the Dems tried over and over to do with the repubs... No, the Repubs would just get out their axes and the results??? As I talked about in an earlier post, they ain't gonna be purdy... Think an American version of Haiti here... B~ |
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01 Sep 10 - 11:54 AM (#2977558) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Bobert: "The problem, as I see it, is that with the Repubs being so dependent of the narrow minded following that they have brough along that, if in power, these Repubs wouldn't have the courage to styand up to these highly emotional gun totin' "true believers" so the Repubs wouldn't say to the Dems, "Let's sit down and see if we can work this out", much as the Dems tried over and over to do with the repubs..." Bobert: ". Yeah, given that Bill Clinton was part of this 30 year assault on the New Deal it's awfully hard to hold one's nose and for for Dems... No, make that vote against Repubs..." Ok, ok, enough of this nonsensical dribble,(or drivel, as you may prefer) You think its Democrats, versus Republicans, in regards to the long term, right? Let's go through a little history, as of recent, to check this out! Yay, Obama brings the troops home, and ends the 'combat role'..... ...that Bush started(or continued), and 'helped out) with the surges... .....To help end a war that we had no business in, in the first place... .....that was 'justified' because Saddam Hussein, had weapons of mass destruction.... ...that we KNEW about...because, WE HAD THE RECEIPTS,...... ....because when Irag was at war with Iran, and when Carter was President, we sold them to Saddam.....who was Sunni, and the Sunnis and Shiites were at war, (Iraq's current regime is Shiite)..... ....and Saddam was OUR boy(then), and the Iraqis kidnapped our guys at the embassy..... .....While Former CIA head, BEFORE and while he was V.P.,H.W.Bush was 'helping the Contras in Central America, by trading weapons for coke....... .....Which got found out by the Iraqis, who found the documents, at the embassy, so they tortured to death Buckley, head of CIA covert operations worldwide, under Carter, and Buckley spilled his beans... ...so we were blackmailed to deliver the 40 tractor towed missiles to Iraq, to be used against the Iran's Sunnis........ ....and when Reagan assumed office, everyone thought that the hostages were released, because they feared his 'Bad Ass'.... ....but it was under Carter the deal was struck.... ....and the release was made to coincide, with the Ronnie's inauguration... ....Who helped negotiate a cease fire between the two..... ....So, Now H.W. Bush can invade Iran, (Desert Storm), and leave Saddam in power.... ...and leaves it for W. Bush, to invade..... ..crush Saddam, and remove the Sunnis from power....THEREFORE...... ......Accomplishing what Iraq was fighting them for...... ...and Now is against Israel, and it's concern about Iraq having nukes.... ....and violating U.N. policies..... ...that we allegedly are soft about reinforcing..... ....mind you, that the Shah of Iran (our boy,)rose to power, in 1941-79, under both party's hearty assistance, including weapons etc etc...... AND YOU THINK SOMETHING AIN'T ROTTEN IN DENMARK!!???!! AND THIS IS ABOUT PARTY POLITICS???????????????? What is this?..Let's be small week??? Warmly, GfS |
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01 Sep 10 - 12:20 PM (#2977585) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Bobert Like I have said over and over, GfinS, that you just don't care to listen to is: 1. I'm not defending the Dems history here... I dropped them after Carter and until the '08 election stayed the heck away from them... 2. I'm not saying that I have any faith that future Dems will lead us out of the darkness... 3. Given today' situation/mess, we don't need another dose of Republican voodoo economics... 4. That said, at least for this election and perhaps 2012 the Dems present US a better chance of not coming out of these times with the beast dead from starvation... Purdy simple... B~ |
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01 Sep 10 - 12:36 PM (#2977603) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Bobert: "Like I have said over and over, GfinS, that you just don't care to listen to is:...." GfS: "Like I have said over and over, Bobert,, that you just don't care to listen to is:.... It don't matter if its Democraps, or Republicunts, There are agendas going down, that has both of these facades, and control over them!. It is SO EASY to blame the 'media', whether Fox ,or MSNBC, or any of them,..(which has been bullshit for a lo-o-o-ng time, now). As soon as you pick up your ax, YOU are the media! I would, and do, play to the hearts and minds of people! There are places that exist within ALL of us that is out of reach, of the BULLSHIT of politics, in ALL its forms! Do your homework, and don't become a broken record, parroting talking points from either side....PEOPLE WILL LISTEN!!....IF YOU ARE REACHING THAT PART OF THEM! Suggestion: Do your homework, musically....and care about what truths you relay, via the music! GfS P.S. I'm on your side! |
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01 Sep 10 - 03:10 PM (#2977760) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Bobert So, back to the standing on the sidelines with that smug look on yer face, GfinS... If you were truely on my side you'd hold yer nose and quit with the "both sides" Republican talkin' point... That is exactly what the Repubs want people to think because it gives them cover for some very bad behavior... B~ |
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01 Sep 10 - 03:23 PM (#2977773) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Nonsense, Bobert! That was my position Lo-o-o-ng, before you came up with it being a 'Republican talking point'...as you can see, if you go back, on my posts. I think your rap is running out of steam...so, now I get an attack, of that sort? I think...no,..KNOW, that recent history clearly shows, you, and everyone else, that somebody else is pulling the strings!...regardless of 'party affiliation'!...and, the 'talking points', are just pandering to the folks who blindly 'just believe' that either party, actually represents what they 'promote'. Do you actually think all this deception is just accidental???!!?? (Want me to cup my hands, and yell to you, the answer again?) Hint: It's the same answer. GfS |
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01 Sep 10 - 04:50 PM (#2977839) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Bobert The Repubs have been pushing this PR crap going back to the 2008 campaign, GfinS... This ain't a new PR ploy... BTW, who was pulling the strings for the Dems to push so hard on health care reform??? I don't see any corporations that wanted it from the jump... Same with "cap and trade"... Who is going to benefit??? Can't buy your argument... Show me the benefactors other than the American people... Oh, sure... The legislation got fouled up and some companies will do well with the health care bill... But I doubt if you can point to any lobbiest firm that was representing a major corpoartion that was pushing for any kind of legislation of this magnitude... B~ |
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01 Sep 10 - 04:52 PM (#2977841) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Donuel Perhaps I picked this thread up weeks ago subliminally but I have been planning to start this very thread with this same exact title. Once I have read everything in detail I will respond. |
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01 Sep 10 - 05:33 PM (#2977872) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: dick greenhaus Seems like an unnecessary question--we know what Repub administrations are like. Are memories that short? |
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01 Sep 10 - 05:36 PM (#2977874) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: mousethief We'll see in November, Dick. |
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01 Sep 10 - 05:43 PM (#2977882) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Bobert: "The Repubs have been pushing this PR crap going back to the 2008 campaign, GfinS..." I was on before and during that!..I'm telling you, ONLY the party line Believers, think this is straight up...on both sides! GfS |
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01 Sep 10 - 06:09 PM (#2977918) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Bobert Yo, GfinS... Were you on the Mayflower, too??? B;~) |
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01 Sep 10 - 10:25 PM (#2978135) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Donuel Some of us do live in the United States of Amnesia. If and when it happens Despite the complete virtual amnesty that has been given the banks, Bond rating Companies, Mortgage Companies, Cheney, Bush, Rumsfeld and most private war profiteering companies, I forsee investigations and allegations of the Obama administration by Republicans that will make white water blow job Clinton investigations look like a parking ticket. They have already publicly promised to do so. On the chopping block will be reforms, regulations and staff, social justice organizations, Social Security, Medicare, teachers, Dept of Education and even public education itself by abolishing the last two years of public high school and replacing it with costly private schools. Yes that is a Republican proposal. A possible hot border war with Mexico could erupt or even a nuclear explosion for which curiously no one will claim respondsibility. On the certain favorite list will be permanent tax cuts down to near zero for the ludicrously wealthy. They will use that money to stimulate the economy in China, Malaysia, Vanatu and the American off shore corporate offices which are also tax free. Once Government is decapitated and all regulations abolished they will be able to prove that private corporations like Walmart are more effective than FEMA, the National Guard and every other goverment dept. designed to help the homeless swarms of American peasants during natural disasters which will increase as a result of burgeoning climate changes. Once malnutrition, unemployment and homelessness reaches 35%, labor will again be as cheap as it is in China and without a minimum wage people can go back to work for $20 a day and live in freedom work zones similar to army barracks. In the better freedom work zones, homes will be aged FEMA trailers. All the foreclosed homes will be demolished or flipped by bank conglomerates and rented out as multi family faith homes. Speaking of Banks the last 3000 small banks (Nearly 2,000 have already been closed) will be closed leaving exactly 5 banks in the country. Despite the Citizens United ruling allowing secret corporations to donate money with no limits to Republican candidates, more laws disallowing union money or internet money to go to Democratic candidates without first filling out dozens of forms which will serve like a mine field few will ever navigate without getting blown up. Worst of all a pall will come over the nation for the fear of baseless annonymous accusations falling upon the necks of Democrats who once spoke out against republicans or Fox nes with no legal remedy or day in court. It will take the form of IRS penalties, sex abuse child abuse charges, property seizures, obscure fines, termination of services without cause etc. The prison corporations will become more profitable as well as the free labor manufacturing factories behind their walls which will outpace private industries outside of the prison industrial complex. Prisoners will strive to go to a Gucci or Lee Jeans prison rather than the Sylvania or Delco prison. And finally the Republicans will find a war to win decisively as Reagan did . We will invade and reliberate Grenada to establish the largest golf course in the world connected by hotels so one could concievably golf from one end of the country to the other without ever leaving the course. |
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01 Sep 10 - 10:56 PM (#2978147) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Donuel Republicans will deliver an ultimatum to Iran. In no uertain terms Iran will be told that we will not lift the most extreme sanctions ever levied against a soverign nation unil they relinquish ALL nuclear ambitions. They will be promised that once they do, we will lift the sanctions thus allowing them to have an economy as robust and wonderful as the United States of America. Iran responds, "Are you kidding? Your economy is behind China, India, Germany and Vanatu! We prefer to stick with China, France and Russia. If you want to pursue this further go ahead, bring it on." Republicans: "Oh yeah? Did you see what we did to Iraq? We have a green zone there now! " Iran: "yes we came we saw we conquered. .... Iraq is a defacto Iran now" Republicans: "Oh yeah? " Iran: yep Republicans: Liar! Were gonna double your sanctions and then were gonna tell Isreal on you. Iran: "Isreal who?" |
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02 Sep 10 - 01:12 AM (#2978198) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Bobert: "Yo, GfinS... Were you on the Mayflower, too???" Subject: RE: BS: Voting for Hillary? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 02 Jun 08 - 03:02 AM No, I was on the Santa Maria!..wink! GfS |
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02 Sep 10 - 11:10 AM (#2978469) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Ebbie Oh, yes, the Santa Maria. Was slow, ran aground and was lost. Explains a lot, don't it. |
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02 Sep 10 - 06:34 PM (#2978852) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Bobert LOL, Eb.... And... ...ahhhhh, yes it does... What next??? GfinS invented the internet with Al Gore??? B;~) |
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02 Sep 10 - 07:08 PM (#2978872) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Stringsinger GfS the musicians union is a guild union, not a worker's union. For years they have been under the watchful eye of people like Petrillo. (Closely aligned with the mob boss mentality). The musician's union has done some things for it's workers, though. It has provided a living wage for symphonic musicians and some in class A night clubs. It doesn't find jobs for musicians but in a situation where a corporation tries to screw a musician, it often goes to bat for them and helps them. A musician in the South today is under Taft-Hartley which invalidates unions. Unions were responsible for the rise of the Middle Class during FDR's time. The Wagner Act saved many a worker from poverty. Reagan undermined the unions. Joblessness started under his watch. Then, you saw the rise of homelessness in America. There are different kinds of unions but trade-unionism is essential to American industry. That's right, what American industry? It's not here because trade unionism which built the industrial base in America has been weakened. If industry leaders decided to flee to exploit workers in other countries, a strong union could act as incentive against this by boycotts, publicity, and shutting down non-union shops in the U.S. owned by foreign industrial or transnational corporations. They could promote higher tariff's on imports from exploiters like China. Unions are useful. Not only would a Repub Admin gut unions, they would also gut public education. Jefferson would not be pleased. Privatized education has been shown not to be better than public education in terms of results. Privatized education would make it less available to everyone unless you could afford it. Everyone else would be dumbed-down. The war machine would totally take over. There's money in human bloodshed. Cargill, Blackwater (Xe), Brown and Root, etc. to say nothing of the participation of the "iron triangle" involving the Pentagon. Permanent war anyone? I'll bet that crime waves go up. There will be more guns on the street. The rise of survivalist home-grown militias will be free to practice Nazism or other fanatic reactionary means of oppression. In case of another Katrina, forget it. You see what happened last time? Religious freedom will be attacked including the right not to believe. You think there's a problem with reaction against Muslims now? Wait until Beck, McConnell, Boener and others are in power. Repub Admin spells Nightmare in America. |
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02 Sep 10 - 07:58 PM (#2978901) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Bobert Exactly, Strings... Absolute ruin and by the time the Repubs figure out thet too have bought into their grand-daddies hatred of FDR and government in general, they too will be askin' themselves, "WTF have we done here?"... I mean, this hatred of the New Deal and government is so pervasive that I doubt that many people who are advocating it have a clues what things will/can look like on the other side... That is the worrisome part about this... They know what they hate (or are supposed to hate) but they have not the slightest clue of what they *want* in it's place when their grandaddy's bluesprint turns out to be shit... I mean, lets get real here... These are 3rd generation FDR haters... They got hate down purdy good... Waht are they gonna do when they have gotten their way and ruined the country in the process??? Huh??? That's the real question here... Who is going to buy their junk if they create a society of hoarders and introverts... This blueprint is shit... It serves absolutlye no one in the long run... It just turns the US into some "Mad Max After the Thunder Dome"... B~ |
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03 Sep 10 - 12:10 AM (#2978998) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: mousethief Who is going to buy their junk That's the $64k question. Ford raised his workers' wages so they could buy his cars -- and it was a major building block of the American middle class. The filthy rich of our day are doing their best to destroy the American middle class. It will bite them in the ass, eventually. In the meantime a lot of us will suffer. I mean suffer. A lot. |
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03 Sep 10 - 12:15 AM (#2979000) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: mousethief I fear that eventually it will lead to a second American revolution, although this time along the lines of the French or the Russian -- oodles of bloodshed of the upper crust. I hope I don't see it in my lifetime but I fear my children, or their children, will. But it certainly won't come while the sheeple can still be fooled into thinking that cutting taxes on the super-rich is in their own best interests. |
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03 Sep 10 - 07:39 AM (#2979167) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Bobert Henry Ford had it right... We are seein' that now... The economists are saying "If only the public would spend their money then all would be well"... Have the economists ever wondered if the public, in general, has any money to spend??? I mean, let's get real here... Lotta families having to take in and/or support relatives who are unemployed... This is not talked about in the news but lotta the money that the economists want Joe Public to spend ain't there to be spent... B~ |
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03 Sep 10 - 01:02 PM (#2979347) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Bobert: "What next??? GfinS invented the internet with Al Gore???" No, Gore, the Democrapic politician is and was capable of inventing his own lies!...Like the rest of them.....such as: Isn't it time for some truth and ethics, Democrats? Bill Clinton lied about having sex with Monica Lewinsky. Hilary Clinton misspoke about being fired on in Bosnia. John Edwards lied about having an affair and denied having a "love child." Blumenthal misspoke about his Vietnam service. Charlie Rangel charged with ethics violations. Maxine Waters charged with ethics violations. Rod Blagojevich convicted of lying to the FBI. Michael Bennet — "The nation has racked up $13 trillion in debt and has nothing to show for it." This is the same Michael Bennet who voted for all the big spending bills put forth by Obama, Pelosi and Reid. ...and that's just for starters.......OH, and the Republicunts have their list as well!! Mouser: "The filthy rich of our day are doing their best to destroy the American middle class. It will bite them in the ass, eventually. In the meantime a lot of us will suffer. I mean suffer. A lot." As long as there are 'overseas markets', the 'filthy rich' would throw the American middle class, under the bus, in a New York second. None the less, does anyone know why there is a need for Federal Employee Unions? Wasn't the government 'suppose' to be assuring equality, and fairness anyway?? There was a time, for the need for unions and collective bargaining, as still is to some degree, However, back then, they started with 'guilds', of craftsmen and journeymen, who knew their trade, and were proficient at their particular skills. Today, if you go for employment in a 'union shop' you don't have to know shit....just pay your dues...In the case of Federal Employee Unions, the amounts to a double tax. When the unions donated $52,000,000 to campaign funds, in the last election, there were certainly 'favors' to repay....wouldn't you at least admit, that that was $52,000,000 NOT going to the benefits of the union's rank and file??? ...but rather, using their pensions, medical etc etc for being a 'special interest?...and in fact, adds to the list of CORRUPTION, for the politicians, instead of representing the best interests, and well being of their constituents? I'm sure some twisted rationalizations based on party politics, will skew that answer, too!!! GfS |
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03 Sep 10 - 01:04 PM (#2979349) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Bobert: "Henry Ford had it right... We are seein' that now... The economists are saying "If only the public would spend their money then all would be well"... Ford had it right, as well, NOT taking the government buy-off money!..Wouldn't you agree? GfS P.S. they also opposed getting involved with several wars! |
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03 Sep 10 - 05:21 PM (#2979510) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Bobert No, I wouldn't agree, GfinS... It wasn't "buy-off" money, at all... It was responsible governance... It saved over a 100,000 jobs... It saved two companies that have provided employment to 100,000s of thousnads of peope over the years and best part about it??? The US taxpayers actually made a profit on the loans... That's amazing in itself... But being an ol' Ford man (my dad was a factory rep) I'm glad that Ford was able to forgo having to borrow... Means they have been outthinkin' the competition of late... That's good 'causer them buying Junk-uar was a dismal decision on their part... B~ p.s. Ask the folks in Spawzer's state of Ohio if saving GM was worth it... He'll tell you in spades... I mean, Ohio is GM country and GM and its suppliers are the largest private employers in the state... |
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03 Sep 10 - 09:49 PM (#2979643) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Couldn't address the Union issue? That being said, sometimes the unions were good....now I, as most impartial observers would note, they are too corrupt to stand behind....ESPECIALLY the government employee unions.....but pretty much all of them, with minor exceptions, and before your shorts get twisted, and stuck, in a knot,..No takers on the Musician's Union, eh? I just didn't want to put you in an embarrassing, hypocritical place. Waving, GfS |
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05 Sep 10 - 02:16 AM (#2980222) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Ran you all off, because you're speechless?..Can't cop to an answer??..Time to reconsider? and learn? then adjust!?!? GfS |
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05 Sep 10 - 09:05 AM (#2980342) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Bobert Yeah, I'm usually speechless at 2:16AM... As fir a "musican's union"... Check out 14b of the Taft-Hartley Act, GfinS... I live in the South which means we have stenkin' "right to work" (what a dumb thing to call it) whioch means that we ain't got no stenkin' unions to speak of fir any profession... We certainly don't have no musican's unions... But if we did, yeah, I'd prolly be a member if it meant that when you go to play a gig and it rains real hard and only 20 people show up that the guy who booked me can't get away with reniggin' on paying me what he agreed to pay me... B~ |
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05 Sep 10 - 08:24 PM (#2980663) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Stringsinger GfS, there are different unions. The teacher's union is one of the last hopes we have for a decent educational system in the US. There is not corruption but integrity there. They're not all Jimmy Hoffa or gangster-controlled. Many have the genuine interest of working people such as the UMWA. The anti-union propaganda that has permeated the likes of mainstream media is based on those who stand to benefit from the destruction of unions, those who control broadcast and print media in the US. Unions have always served important functions for working people and the proof is the rise of the middle class during the Administration of FDR. Reagan gutted that and the US is paying the cost by rising unemployment and CEO wages proportionately. Here is corruption at its worst. |
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05 Sep 10 - 09:56 PM (#2980692) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Bobert I donno, Strings... Word on the street is that the DC's teacher's union is a large part of why the Mayor, Adrian Fenty, is so far behind in the polls... I donno... Yeah, I still support unions in general... More on the labor/management relations side... Too bad that America hasn't been more unionized 'cause if it had been then there wouldn't have been such a drastic shifting of wealth from the working class to the "big boys" and then the "big boys" wouldn't be crying 'casue the working class ain't got any money left to buy their crap??? It's a vicious cycle that the rich folks have gotten themselves into and in doing so has left the average workin' stiff even worse off??? Really messed up... And I have no faith that there will even be unions in 20 years and then it will be Boss Hog on yer back 24/7... "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss"... Not this time... New boss is the prick of all pricks... B~ |
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05 Sep 10 - 10:18 PM (#2980697) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Little Hawk For your consideration... |
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06 Sep 10 - 12:21 PM (#2980977) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity I was going to point something out, about the 'Teacher's Union' but I'll hold off,...wait, I'll do just one, little thing..... Bobert: "Word on the street is that the DC's teacher's union is a large part of why the Mayor, Adrian Fenty, is so far behind in the polls..." Though that is true, anyone notice the concern here, is that a Democrap is behind in the polls, from being re-elected, more that the children are all about as educated as a box of rocks!??...but the benefits and political clout of the Union, just gets more....at the expense of hiring QUALIFIED, teachers, and base their pay on performance, rather than tenure!...oh, and keeping up to date, on paying their DUES! GfS |
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06 Sep 10 - 01:45 PM (#2981015) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Bobert BTW, GfinS, seein' that Gray is also a democrat it's no wonder that a dem would be behind in the polls... Gotta agree with you on ther DC Teachers Union... It is an example of what can go wrong with unions but shouldn't be viewed as an argument for no unions... The benefits of unions have historically outweighed the negatives by far... When union memebership was up at 33% back in the 50s and 60s the unemployment rate stayed at 4% year in and year out... Now that union emembers make up only 12% of the labor force the unemployment is double that... Worse than that wages for the working class have been stagnant for the last 30 years in the US while both unemployment and wages have done quite nicely in other industrialized nations even thru recessions... B~ |
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06 Sep 10 - 02:38 PM (#2981036) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Q (Frank Staplin) More digression- Twenty-two states have Right-to-Work laws. Payment of union dues not required in these states. A good thing too, as unions tell workers who to vote for and make big donations to politicians. A 'union shop' is permitted, but the union can't tell an employer to fire or discipline a worker. In Canada, national unions are largely confined to those that are extra-provincial in character (railroads, etc.); others are governed by provincial laws. Some, such as the Ontario Teachers Union, are large in an economic role, owning $97 billions in real estate and businesses, some overseas(gambling in UK, communications including satellite, over 35 percent non-Canadian in all). It holds over $2.9 billion in OGX petroleo, $700 milion in Deutsche Telekom, $1 billion in Transurban (toll roads, etc.). It offers class B shares to investors. In 2009, the Fund gave 13 percent return to investors. Two of the Ontario Teachers holdings include over $250 million in Transocean (driller of the BP blowout well) and $200 million in JP Morgan Chase. |
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06 Sep 10 - 02:59 PM (#2981048) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Q (Frank Staplin) Cutting back to the subject, some commentators on CNN are speaking of the Republican tsunami that will overwhelm Democrats in the next elections. yes siree bobtail! |
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06 Sep 10 - 03:46 PM (#2981080) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Little Hawk Ah, well...you see, the KEY to becoming unpopular in fairly short order is simply to get elected! ;-) Yessiree. Because once you have been elected it usually becomes fairly plain to the public within a year or two that you have let them down very badly, and it's inevitable you would have, because you don't really work for the public!!! No. You work for the rich elite who funded the last election (on both sides, of course) and who determine what you will do once you're in power, all through the power of their money. If their policies wreck the economy for most ordinary people, they will have you bail out their primary business entities and the game will go on. So if you want to become really, really unpopular...despised and even hated...here is how to do it: Run for high office as either a Democrat or a Republican. Get elected on a surge of new hope and popularity. Then start serving your rich pals who paid for that expensive campaign by doing what they require of you. Go fight a couple of foreign wars and find new ways to bleed away the public's money so that almost everyone soon ends up worse off than ever. In no time they'll really hate you. ;-) It will then be time for someone very much like you (inwardly, but not outwardly, that is) to step forward on behalf of the other party and stick his neck in the same declining popularity noose yours was just in while you go off quietly to write your memoirs and speak at expensive public functions for a hefty fee. ;-) Who could resist that? Hell, it's worth being hated and despised a little, isn't it? |
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06 Sep 10 - 04:00 PM (#2981084) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Q (Frank Staplin) Little Hawk, it don't matter a whit who you work for. Unless the peepul happen to elect a Congress with a veto-proof majority that endorses your views, you are just whistling in the wind. Unlikely to happen. |
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06 Sep 10 - 04:03 PM (#2981087) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Little Hawk By the way, that's why I keep telling Chongo that he's crazy to want to be president. ;-) There are only a few people who hate Chongo now. Imagine what he'd face after being elected for a year or two! He has no idea. He thinks it would be "fun"! |
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06 Sep 10 - 04:08 PM (#2981091) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Little Hawk The congressmen are mostly controlled by those same people, Q, meaning their major sources of funding, the corporate elite. That's done through providing campaign funds and through constant lobbying once the congressmen are in office. Money talks. Congress obeys. Congress is split into 2 "teams", just like 2 football teams, and they naturally play against one another whenever the game is on, because they both want to win, but the League owns BOTH teams, and the League is a consortium of big corporations and banks. The League doesn't particularly care which team wins the game as long as the public "buys tickets" (pays their taxes and continues believing in the bipartisan game). |
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06 Sep 10 - 04:25 PM (#2981102) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Little Hawk And, yes, the 2 teams ARE different from one another. ;-) Just thought I'd better mention that before some dipstick here says that I'm saying there's no difference between them. They HAVE to be different. How the hell else could you effectively divide and conquer the public by dividing them up into 2 sets of rabid fans unless they could plainly see that the two teams are different? The problem is, they play the same basic game once elected...and it's not in the general public's interest. You know, to anyone outside the USA here's what the Democrats look like, once they're in office: Republican Lite. Different label. Different taste. More bubbly. Less bitter. But it's still rotgut either way and it'll give you such a hangover! On the other hand, whaddya do when the local store stocks only those 2 brands? Me, I just drink water instead. ;-) |
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06 Sep 10 - 04:33 PM (#2981106) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Oh, the Republicunts will speak of such high moral integrity, and getting the 'cuntry', right back on track..till they get elected, and then continue the SAME crappy course that the Democraps were doing, when they got voted in..mostly as an anti-Bush backlash! Nobody is, or can vote FOR anything..its ALWAYS the 'lesser of the two evils'.......which of course, is still an evil!......then like the moron robots we're programmed to be, we'll all point fingers, find fault, blame each other, and the party, or opposite party, that has nothing to do with ANYTHING! THEY WANT YOU OFF COURSE!....and so blindly, and willingly, we oblige them...right Bobert?? GfS |
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06 Sep 10 - 04:39 PM (#2981107) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Q (Frank Staplin) Of course most of us don't mind business ('the corporate elite') running things since they pay our salaries and pensions. This working class stuff of Bobert's is a little mouldy. |
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06 Sep 10 - 05:43 PM (#2981145) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Little Hawk Hmmm...yes. It's inevitable that in a system where big business provides jobs to many, many people, those same people would naturally feel that their survival depends on big business...just like an English sailor's survival in the 1700's depended on the British Navy (despite often brutal treatment and low pay), well, that sailor would hope the Navy went on, right? I don't feel that way, however. I am getting no job or pension from Big Business, so no conflict of interest here, Q. But I do understand the position of people who feel that way. |
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06 Sep 10 - 08:07 PM (#2981230) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Bobert The "working class thing is a little mouldy"... Yeah, it is but guess what, Q... This ol' hillbilly gonna keep preachin' until it comes back around and is popular again... I half agree with Little GfinS Hawk in that the two parties are way too dependent on corporate money... That is a sad reality... It costs the average Senator $8000 a day to stay in office... That is seriously messed up... But I do give the Dems alot of credit for the health care reform bill they got thru... Yeah, it's not the greatest bill and will need tweekin' but it's the first major piece of legislation that will help our country compete with other countires that spend half on health care as we do... Yeah, the Dems get credit for doing that... Okay, they'll pay fir it at the polls... That's is the sad part about our political system... Folks step up occasionally and do something for the "mouldy working class", which BTW has not seen any real (after index) change in their income for 3 decades while Boss Hog has never had it so good, and then get punished for doing so??? That is waht is so terribly fucked up about our politcal system... B~ |
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07 Sep 10 - 02:15 AM (#2981350) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Bobert: "But I do give the Dems alot of credit for the health care reform bill they got thru... Yeah, it's not the greatest bill and will need tweekin' but it's the first major piece of legislation that will help our country compete with other countires that spend half on health care as we do... Yeah, the Dems get credit for doing that..." Credit??..You might consider 'Blame'. For all the bitching people have done on the war in Iraq, for the financial mess they say it was, because of the cost, (Notice, when they bitch about that, its not for the 'moral' reason of the war), this 'health(?)care' bill will dwarf the cost of the war! By 2020, the cost of our debt to the Federal Reserve(a private corporation), will be 95% of our entire GNP.,,that is BEFORE we pay one cent toward the deficit or budget...just on the interest ALONE!!...We're fucked!... Oh, and did you notice the new shenanigans they're pulling for Social 'Security'...New 'fix its', to rip us off blind..BIG TIME. You can find the details online somewhere,..it just came out..I just about fell over when I heard it..it incorporates devaluing the dollar, and taxing the benefits. Its another 'social program run a muck! Personally, I think, that unless the government can do its fundamental job, of functioning, and serving it's purpose, as designated in the Constitution, they should just stay out of institutionalizing anymore shit, that intrudes into people's lives!! This was once known for being a 'FREE' country...quit encroaching our freedoms with your bullshit, phony programs!...designed to limit, tremendously our freedoms....and fuck your 'entitlements'!..Do your REAL job!...and bug out from your 'social engineering'. WE, the people, are NOT the ones declaring make-believe wars, and screwing other nations over. When is enough, enough?? You run out of foreign enemies, now you want to target us??..for no REAL reason, except you don't know anything else but expanding?..making up new shit, to expand with??...and passing the cost onto us, who can't afford anymore of your crooked, lying excuses?? Jeez...When will they ever get it? If the want to expand, and flex their muscle, why don't they just enforce the LAWS limiting monopolies? Because they didn't, the corporations have gotten bigger, and more powerful that our government, and now we just 'rent' them our military!..This is Bullshit, pure and simple....but we love it that way, everyday..and we hope that the 'bad times' are here to stay...fa-la-la-la la, la la la-la lah!' GfS GfS |
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07 Sep 10 - 08:20 AM (#2981512) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Bobert Spoken like a true Republican, GfinS... That is the Reagan model for everything... Less government, more privatizaion and Katie-bar-the-door 'cause Boss Hog ain't had enough of having his way with ya'... I mean, you should hear yerself, GfinS... Do you have a clue how much money the wealthy are just sittin' on now??? Like most of it... That money is just collectin' dust yet you want to channel even more of it to them using that bogus, "everyone-is-corrupt" crap as yer shield... Meanwhile, while you are busy disassembling the federal government, the poverty and homeless rates are going to skyrocket... Perhaps you have a plan for that??? I mean, one really great thing that we as a people do is respect our elderly... Maybe you ain't been to too many nursing homes but well over half the folks in them wouldn't be in them if it wasn't for the federal government paying for their care... (Well, Boberdz... That's why we call is "personal responsibility"... Them people should have made more money and planned better for their old age...) So, what you gonna do, GfinS... Put old people out on the streets??? BTW, what is your Republican plan for health care??? Just let the young eat-drink-and-be-merry until they gat to be 50 or so and then need more health care but never really put any peas in the pot until they were sick and least able to afford it??? (Well, Boberdz... Those people shouldn't be able to do that... Had they been "persoanlly responsible" in the first place they would have had insurance...) And just where do you suggest that the "mouldy working class" get the money for that and all the other high priced luxaries, like transportation, food, housing... You know, all them extravagant things... I mean, where do they get the $$$, GfinS... With 30 years of union busting the "mouldy working class" hasn't seen any real advances in their wages since 1982... Many have actually seen a decline now that Boss Hog sees that there is a perfect storm for him to exploit his workers and is making them pay more for their health insurance (%-wise) than at any time in the last 40 years... Yeah, scream "both sides are corrupt" while Boss Hog breaks down your door and bends you over... Might of fact, Boss Hog's favorite song is "Both Sides Blues"... Puts a twinlkle in his eye when he hears it... His PR folks love it too 'cause they are the ones who taught to the folks who parrot it... B~ |
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07 Sep 10 - 08:23 AM (#2981514) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Bobert ...and 200... B~ |
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07 Sep 10 - 09:10 AM (#2981533) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Greg F. this 'health(?)care' bill will dwarf the cost of the war! By 2020, the cost of our debt to the Federal Reserve(a private corporation), will be 95% of our entire GNP... ATTENTION: Tea-Bagger Fake "Fact" |
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07 Sep 10 - 12:39 PM (#2981645) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Bobert: "Spoken like a true Republican, GfinS... That is the Reagan model for everything... Less government, more privatizaion and..." I guess you'd like the Federal government to even wipe your ass, too! "....Maybe you ain't been to too many nursing homes but well over half the folks in them wouldn't be in them if it wasn't for the federal government paying for their care..." Maybe if there was less stupid programs facilitating easy destruction of the family unit, families could take care of their own!..again: 'I guess you'd like the Federal government to even wipe your ass, too!' Bobert: "Do you have a clue how much money the wealthy are just sittin' on now??? Like most of it... That money is just collectin' dust yet you want to channel even more of it to them using that bogus, "everyone-is-corrupt" crap as yer shield... Meanwhile, while you are busy disassembling the federal government, the poverty and homeless rates are going to skyrocket..." It sounds like you have a Jones about 'the wealthy'. Wealth is relative, as in, 'One man's ceiling is another man's floor'. Perhaps if the Federal government wasn't pandering to the large corporations, there would be MORE money circulating! The problem is YOU ,and too many people have become DEPENDENT on the very people fucking you over!..but you don't see it, or see it that way. Between the cost of ever rising taxes, and corporate greed, people can barely hold their heads above water. This doesn't have to be, but as long as they continue this cyclical jacking everything up, we, the 'common citizen' are being squeezed to death..... Bobert: "Well, Boberdz... That's why we call is "personal responsibility"..." Oh my good Lord, perish the thought...again,'I guess you'd like the Federal government to even wipe your ass, too!' Bobert: "With 30 years of union busting the "mouldy working class" hasn't seen any real advances in their wages since 1982..." Just heard today, out of California: California is leading the country on unions losing ground, and people NOT joining unions, or leaving them! True story...NOT that I am totally against unions, but they in fact, like the 'other side', too have grown to big through corruption. Companies cannot afford all their wages and benefits, so the Federal government made 'allowances'(tax breaks, and incentives), for manufacturing to go overseas. WE DO NOT even manufacture all our own military equipment!...and if we needed it for an attack of our own country, we have to import major amounts, from countries whose own interests, would like to see us defeated! Now that makes little sense!...Possibly, in certain respects, we are tugging at the same rope! Bobert: "Yeah, scream "both sides are corrupt" while Boss Hog breaks down your door and bends you over.".... ...No problem for you..You're already grabbing you ankles! So, ask yourselves this simple question: Would you rather be CONTROLLED by the Federal government, or the corporations, THROUGH the federal government??...Actually, I'd rather NOT be CONTROLLED by EITHER! Bobert: "...Boss Hog's favorite song is "Both Sides Blues"..." They should know!...They've got the receipts for corrupting BOTH SIDES!!...Jeez! Get a CLUE! Greg F: "ATTENTION: Tea-Bagger Fake "Fact". I didn't get that from the 'Tea Baggers'. That is out, through several leading economists....Sorry, if the Tea Bag guys are spouting it too, well at least a broken clock is right, two times a day! Why are you all so hell-bent on being taxed into dependency, on the jerks who are taxing you so high????...For NOTHING?? The programs we 'borrowed' for SHOULD have been enough, several times over! When we borrow like that, from the Federal Reserve, keep in mind, the interest on those 'loans',, is paid for by our taxes, to the Fed, A 'FOR PROFIT PRIVATE BANKING CORPORATION!!!" Non compos mentos! GfS |
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07 Sep 10 - 01:09 PM (#2981661) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Bobert The tax rates that Americans pay today are the lowest in almost 2 decades and lower than any industrialized nation... Problem is that in almost every category that is good the US ranks poorly and every category that is bad the US ranks high... This is a recipe for disaster... As for how much money the rich have squirrled away??? Plenty... Why, GfinS, do you think it's okay for so few to have so much and everyone else treading water or going backwards??? One paragraph answer, por favor... B~ p.s. BY the way, I can wipe my own ass, thank you... |
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07 Sep 10 - 02:11 PM (#2981696) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Q (Frank Staplin) Money squirreled away and gathering dust? Kept under the mattress? Nonsense. That money is invested, even if it is in banks, where money never 'sits' but is being loaned out for business, homes and the many other means of increasing money and its fluidity. The stupid war and adventures in Afghanistan have cost almost $1 trillion so far. It and similar fiascos have wasted money that could have been used to support infrastructure and education. I agree, that this is government waste to the nth degree; businesses large and small share the blame that the U. S. tries to act as policeman to the world. The culprits are ourselves because the majority approves of these actions. |
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07 Sep 10 - 02:17 PM (#2981699) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Amos Q: Just as a reminder, the rational for the war in Afghanistan was not police work but military retribution. A |
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07 Sep 10 - 02:32 PM (#2981710) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Little Hawk That was the official reason given, Amos. I think the real reason was much more along the lines of occupying a vital strategic region that rests across key strategic trade and transport routes to Russia, China, the Middle East, and India (which is why major empires have been fighting over Afghanistan for centuries now)...and which allows direct access to the oil-producing regions in the Caspian...and which enables encirclement of Iran. Retribution for 911 was just the PR excuse to get the public onside for what is a typical imperial war by a great power with the usual imperial objectives. The Afghans did not plan or carry out the 911 attacks, and I'm sure they were as shocked and astounded as anyone when those attacks occured. Those attacks were the propaganda key that unlocked Pandora's Box, and the Afghans were simply the hapless recipients of the hellstorm that was unleashed. They are very good, though, at fighting invaders. Their history has proven that time and again. |
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07 Sep 10 - 03:56 PM (#2981760) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Amos Oh, bullshit, Little Hawk. There is no "the" Afghans. But the officials running the country---the Taliban--had elected to provide a staging platform for OSama bin Laden's operations and shield him from prosecution after the act. So although the PR story may havehad deeper economic routes such as the pan-Russian piplne, it was a justifiable pretext. A |
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07 Sep 10 - 05:39 PM (#2981825) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Bobert Actually, Q, there have been several reports on the Fortune 500 companies sitting on $1.8T that is not invested... Just cash... |
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07 Sep 10 - 05:46 PM (#2981828) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Q (Frank Staplin) "Policeman to the world" is an old phrase used to cover all of the U. S. actions around the world where military forces were involved. Many unnecessary. 1992, Colin Powell, and perhaps much earlier- "I'd sort of like to say we're not the superpower or super-policeman of the world, but when there is trouble somewhere in the world that we least expect, it's the United States that gets called on to perform the role of being the cop on the beat." Military retribution for what? Bin Laden- they seek him here, they seek him there- Those yankees seek him everywhere- Is he in heaven or is he in hell? That demmed elusive bin Laden ....................... If you should see him, please do give a yell ! |
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07 Sep 10 - 09:02 PM (#2981979) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Donuel The Republican agenda of providing higher education exclusively to the wealthy has been steadily working since the Nixon administration. The US is now 23rd in the world when it comes to how much a 15 year has learned in their schools. The wealthy live in gated communites and vote against all education taxes. The Republican agenda has now introduced a bill to abolish 11th and 12th grade and suggest kids should then attend prep schools if they have college plans. Once Republicans abolish the Education Department all their exclusive education plans will come true in completion. |
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07 Sep 10 - 09:09 PM (#2981987) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Bobert You got it, Donuel... The Repubs think that the US would be better served if the folks didn't know too much and have been battling for years to do whatever it takes to drive a stake in the heart of public schools... Ya' know, it's very sad to know that my mom attended a better "public" school in the 1920s than then Repubs want today??? Huxley certainly saw this comin' whne he wrote "Brave New World"... The epsilon class is very much amoun us and guess what??? They are not only proud to be ignorant but they vote!!! B~ |
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07 Sep 10 - 11:23 PM (#2982050) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: mousethief Of course most of us don't mind business ('the corporate elite') running things since they pay our salaries and pensions. Except the issue isn't business, it's megabusiness, which supplies well less than half the jobs -- small businesses, which have no lobbying power, supply half the jobs, and another chunk is supplied by government including schools. That money is invested, even if it is in banks, where money never 'sits' but is being loaned out for business, homes and the many other means of increasing money and its fluidity. That's just it. It's NOT being loaned out. The banks are sitting on it because they're afraid if they loan it out they will lose it. Have you been following the news? Small business after small business have been folding because they can't get the short-term loans they depend on to do business. The fatcats, who own the banks, are sitting on the money supply and it ain't circulatin' around. And we will NEVER get out of this depression -- oops sorry, did I say depression? -- recession until it does. The Republican agenda has now introduced a bill to abolish 11th and 12th grade and suggest kids should then attend prep schools if they have college plans. Can you point me to a source on this? I'd love to use this as a stick against Republican friends. |
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08 Sep 10 - 12:24 AM (#2982073) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Ebbie I didn't find any such proposed bill but there is this: "While the Obama Administration and Congress continue to spend hundreds of billions of dollars in Iraq and Afghanistan, legislators continue to dismantle our public services, parks, and educational programs due to budget shortfalls. In Utah, state Sen. Chris Buttars proposed one way of dealing with a budget shortfall: just eliminate the 12th grade. It is not clear why legislators have decided to keep public education at all. If we simply eliminate education, we can send children directly into military training or to work for foreign companies from countries that are expanding their research and educational budgets at the same rate of our decline. "Buttars suggested that 12th grade is really not that important and most kids are ready for the workforce or life at 17. The move would save $60 million out of the $700 million shortfall in the state's budget." Of course, Utah State Senator Buttars is also the guy who - in response to a senator speaking of what he called the 'ugly baby' syndrome where Solomon proposed that the baby be cut in half and each putative mother get one half - said: Senator, this baby is black. I tell you that it's a dark, ugly thing." More from this Brilliant Guy |
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08 Sep 10 - 01:02 AM (#2982092) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Little Hawk By "the Afghans", Amos, I meant the general population of the country. It is the general population that suffers when a war happens, and that war was unnecessary. It was an inappropriate response to 9/11, because 9/11 was not an act of war...it was a criminal act. We've been through all this before, so I don't intend to rehash it all, just saying that to respond to something like 911 by invading an entire country is simply not sensible. You respond to criminal acts by small bands of conspirators with international police work and, if necessary, through covert military intelligence work by outfits like the Secret Service, the CIA, and so on....not by launching a conventional military invasion of an entire country. I do not believe the USA invaded Afghanistan to get Osama Bin Laden. Not for a moment. I think they invaded Afghanistan to occupy and control Afghanistan and control the central Asian region. I'm by no means convinced that Bin Laden even had much, if anything, to do with 911...but if he did, he must be the ideal poster boy for the Project for a New American Century, because 9/11 gave them exactly what they wanted: a "Pearl Harbour Level event" sufficient to justify an open-ended series of American wars in the Middle East. Hell, maybe Bin Laden was even on their payroll. Maybe that's why they have never found him. |
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08 Sep 10 - 02:55 AM (#2982128) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: akenaton The evil and deceit engrained in our political system is almost unbelievable, especially to those of us who are "educated" in the workings of said system. We simply cannot see the wood for the trees, so absorbed are we in the divisive minutiae that the system creates. It truly amazes me, that most people on this forum still hold on to the outdated ideology of left versus right So much hatred for your fellow creatures.....so much energy expended to defend an obviously failing system Wasn't it Dylan who wrote?...."There's no left wing or right wing, just up wing and down wing." |
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08 Sep 10 - 03:33 AM (#2982137) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Well I have to borrow from Akenaton, on this one. Akenaton: "The evil and deceit engrained in our political system is almost unbelievable, especially to those of us who are "educated" in the workings of said system. ..... so absorbed are we in the divisive minutiae that the system creates." GfS: Being as we are somewhat at different ends of the spectrum, we both see the same thing. It is astonishing to me that those who are inside the bucket, can't see anything but 'in the bucket'!..Get outside the bucket, and one can see it a bit better! Akenaton: "It truly amazes me, that most people on this forum still hold on to the outdated ideology of left versus right" GfS: Yeppers! The hokey argument is just street theater! Akenaton: "So much hatred for your fellow creatures.....so much energy expended to defend an obviously failing system" GfS: I remember, as a youngin', my Mom, hating this song, much like we dislike, rap(perhaps), and said the message was very destructive. I sorta liked the song, but many of the people of the day LOVED it. I think they never got out of that mindset, till they were older, and realized that they had squandered a huge potion of their lives...and, of course, it was too late(they felt)....so being as this is a musical forum, let's take a trip to the past...and see if momma was right....I mean would you, who have children encourage them to embrace the lyrics into their bosom???? only practical...for nostalgia's sake! Better sound quality so you can remember ...and so shortsightedly, a generation of spoiled brats, got older.... GfS |
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08 Sep 10 - 08:07 AM (#2982245) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Bobert Yo, mouse, You certainly hit the nail on the head on why we have so much unemployment... Wall Street has small businesses in a squeeze play and have no intentions of making the loans that 2 years ago would have been no problem... I've got a 900 credit rating and a bank whoes loan officer has told me going back 5 years that her bank would be with me until I finished the "hotel" project... Then 6 months ago they changed their minds... No real reasons were given other than some vague BS about federal regulators... Seems that when all else fails, blame the feds??? No matter... Like other small businessmen I had no choice but to close up shop and lay off my crew, all of whom are still unemployed... I donno if it's Wall Streets intent to disrupt the economy with the purpose of driving the Dems outta power or not but I suspect that is the case... And I also suspect that most of it comes from their fear that the Bush tax cuts to the wealthy will be allowed to sunset... That's a big chunk of change that is now sitting idle... The entire idea behind the tax cuts, we are told, was to ptoduce jobs??? Well, hows it workin'??? From the early 50's into the 70's the unemployment rate stayed at a steady 4%... It's no accident that a third of the workforce was unionized during those years... The thing is that the country was buzzin' along purdy good... No, we didn't have a large number of super wealthy folks but, on the whole, the country and it's economy was a'hummin' then came Reaganomics, union busting and the country hasn't been the same since... Yeah, their is corruption but it has become institutionalized to the point where Boss Hog can make a couple phone calls and get purdy much what he wants... This is not how a "free market" system is supposed to work... It can't be free when the fat cats can rig it in their favor... That's why we have 9.5% unemployment... It's rigged... B~ |
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08 Sep 10 - 09:05 AM (#2982274) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: mousethief I donno if it's Wall Streets intent to disrupt the economy with the purpose of driving the Dems outta power or not but I suspect that is the case.. I have started to wonder about this, and then slap myself for being a conspiracy theorist. But it will be interesting to see if a Rethug wins in 2012, whether or not all of a sudden money starts flowing again and the economy (meaning jobs) rebounds again with a will. There needn't be a conspiracy if a large group of people choose to do the same thing independently of one another. |
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08 Sep 10 - 11:28 AM (#2982365) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Bobert: "Yeah, their is corruption but it has become institutionalized to the point where Boss Hog can make a couple phone calls and get purdy much what he wants... This is not how a "free market" system is supposed to work... It can't be free when the fat cats can rig it in their favor... That's why we have 9.5% unemployment... It's rigged..." Finally, you admit it!..Do you think that this corruption is ONLY just the 'Boss Hog' fat cats?..or, from your own post, do you think one could be working without the co-operation, with the government??...and then, just one party, or both?..after all, it IS the Democraps in control now!...and this is happening to you NOW! To make it short and sweet, the 'Boss Hogs' of this world donate to BOTH sides...and BOTH sides are beholdin' to follow THEIR lead, instead of ours!..(We THE People...The REAL Government) Regards, GfS |
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08 Sep 10 - 11:59 AM (#2982384) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Little Hawk Yes, that is the problem in a nutshell. If the very wealthy can control both of those large political parties...and they do...then you cannot establish a real democracy (or, if you prefer, a real republic) by voting out one party and voting in the other. You can alter the situation a bit, in a superficial sense, but you can't get the government to truly represent the public when both parties have been bought out by vested interests. The same problem exists in Canada. All our larger political parties are really controlled by the major players in the financial community...and that ain't the general public! And I bet it's just like that in the UK too, although I'm not familiar enough with UK politics to really say. So we were all told this fairy tale about democracy when we were kids. We were told we lived in a truly representative system which reflected the will of the people. I am sorry to say that that is not so, and there is also no Santa Claus and no Tooth Fairy. We are serfs...serfs with a lot of electronic toys and other goodies to keep us distracted. |
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08 Sep 10 - 12:26 PM (#2982402) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Amos MEbbe so, LH, but so are the fat cats serfs with a lot of toys to keep them distracted. Some folks distract more easily than others. I reject whole heartedly the notion that we are being kept in lowly conditions by the manipulations of the already-rich. It is still the case that you can join their ranks with the right application of risk-taking, insight, opportunism, and energetic dedicated application and communication. A |
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08 Sep 10 - 12:40 PM (#2982417) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: mousethief It is still the case that you can join their ranks with the right application of risk-taking, insight, opportunism, and energetic dedicated application and communication. And lots and lots of luck. |
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08 Sep 10 - 01:06 PM (#2982435) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Amos Well, yeah. Luck is a wild card in the game. A |
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08 Sep 10 - 01:11 PM (#2982440) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: mousethief It frosts me when people who were born to middle class parents, educated in a good suburban school, and were able to afford to go to university (often on the parental tit) then claim they are entirely self-made and get offended if you contradict them. |
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08 Sep 10 - 01:16 PM (#2982447) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Amos Lightfoot: "MEbbe so, LH,...." You think, MAYBE??????????????????! Mouser: "....Lots of Luck" Luck is the idol, of a lazy man! GfS |
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08 Sep 10 - 01:17 PM (#2982449) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Little Hawk Well, yes, you're quite right in what you said, Amos. With enough cleverness, drive, and a bit of luck, one does have a chance at becoming part of the wealthy elite. ;-) It's a very small chance, but that doesn't mean it's impossible, and I think it's the secret inner dream of a simply tremendous number of people. Certainly it was always my father's obvious ambition to do that, and my mother's obvious hope that it would somehow happen (though she didn't expect to do it herself). It didn't happen, despite my father's most strenous efforts, but it was certainly the holy grail they both longed for. And have I dreamed of being rich too through some fortunate event? Yeah, sure I have. ;-) But that wasn't really my point. I'm not saying we ordinary folks don't have some chance to reach those heights, and I'm not saying that the elite aren't serfs in a sense too...what I'm saying is that we don't live in a truly representative democracy like we were taught when we were children, we live in a business-run oligarchy that perpetuates a myth of representative democracy and goes through the motions of that myth at election time. And that's what I feel sad about, because I hoped for better than that when I was young. |
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08 Sep 10 - 01:30 PM (#2982461) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Little Hawk: "I'm not saying we ordinary folks don't have some chance to reach those heights, and I'm not saying that the elite aren't serfs in a sense too...what I'm saying is that we don't live in a truly representative democracy like we were taught when we were children, we live in a business-run oligarchy that perpetuates a myth of representative democracy and goes through the motions of that myth at election time. And that's what I feel sad about, because I hoped for better than that when I was young." Abso-fucking-lutely! Yo Ho, GfS |
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08 Sep 10 - 01:34 PM (#2982466) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Amos It is not about a fortunate event. It takes ten thousand hours of trial and practice to master something, and that's for a known field. If you are cutting into the unknown and trying to reduce leading-edge theory to commercial success, I would guess twice that. And if you misjudge the important things--like how the marketplace will react when you DO get there--you lose out. If you get your throat cut by sponges, moochers, criminal takers or fakers, it costs you heavily. You can starve to death on the trail and also lose your pay, as the song says. But making things happen is a peculiarly human attribute, at least on our scale, and we have thousands of examples to choose from of people who did so. It takes confronting all kinds of williwaws, ne'er-do-wells and uncomfortable negotiations, but it can be made to happen. Bitching and moaning about sky-sized generalities and conspiracies, however, is not part of the formula. A |
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08 Sep 10 - 01:55 PM (#2982487) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Little Hawk Right. ;-) So you are suggesting that I grab the bull by the mungoberries, figuratively speaking, and charge out and make my mark in the world, Amos? Well, hey, not a bad idea. ;-) However, why should my philosophical musings about society be termed "bitching and moaning"? That is harsh, sir, harsh. ;-) After all, we all have the right to muse a little about the imperfections of society and to regret the lost innocence of youth, don't we? As for the "conspiracy" thing, I'm not talking about a conspiracy, Amos. I'm talking about a system that is broken merely because it's been founded on very shaky principles, namely the pursuit of money and power for their own sake. That eventually leads to serious trouble. It leads to the kind of corruption that resulted in responses like the French, American, Chinese, Cuban, and Russian revolutions. |
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08 Sep 10 - 01:59 PM (#2982491) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Amos The system was NOT founded on the principle of power for its own sake. The clearer headed among the first two generations of leaders in this country fought like mad to AVOID the system or parties, the central bank, and the rest of it. They understood human greed and craven longings for power and tried to legislate against those things. Unfortunately, every time you pass a law against "stupid", someone comes up with a new version of "stupider". A |
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08 Sep 10 - 02:00 PM (#2982493) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: GUEST,Blind DRunk in Blind River "It takes ten thousand hours of trial and practice to master something, and that's for a known field." Flip me! I don't know where you get yer flippin' numbers from, Amos, but you are, like, WAY off, eh? It only took me, like, a coupla hours prackise to, like, totally master openin' them old stile beer bottles with my teeth. No word of a lie, man. The trouble is, though, mosta the new bottles have them tops that come off real easy so it ain't no challenge at all enny more. Even a major looser and total wimp can do it now. Too bad, eh? - Shane p.s. I am back. Time to flippin' cleberate, man! |
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08 Sep 10 - 02:11 PM (#2982509) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Little Hawk I'm saying, Amos, that the system as it exists now is founded upon the pursuit of money and power for their own sake, and it's been that way for quite a long time. Lincoln saw it happening in the 1860s and he was extremely concerned about it, but he could not prevent it from occurring. The big business people took over, and the principles that people like Jefferson fought so hard for fell by the wayside. Major labour unions have been corrupted by the same process, as they became big businesses too, out for what they could get, regardless of consequence. |
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08 Sep 10 - 04:37 PM (#2982642) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Amos ALl right, LH. As for Shane, I am sure it only took him ten minutes to "master" wanking, but that's not the sort of skill I meant. A |
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08 Sep 10 - 04:46 PM (#2982649) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Donuel LH Chongo and relations, It is important to remember that Barak Obama is ordinary folks. He had an extrordinary mother and grand parents and he has had an extraordinary rise to great heights, but he is ordinary folks. He has been compelled to seek a centrist position as a populist president but I believe as president he is as sympathetic to the middle class as FDR and T. Roosevelt. |
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08 Sep 10 - 05:48 PM (#2982687) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Little Hawk Obama's an interesting man, Donuel. He's clearly very intelligent. It isn't Obama himself that worries me so much, it's the system he must now work within that worries me. |
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08 Sep 10 - 06:10 PM (#2982693) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Q (Frank Staplin) Obama is a little disappointing; I think more was expected from a man trained in the Daly machine. We could do worse. And we may find out in 2012. |
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08 Sep 10 - 07:59 PM (#2982769) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Bobert Corrupt, GfinS??? Well, yeah... I never said it wasn't... What I have been arguing is that after 30 years of twiddle-dee-twiddle-dum I'm seein a crack between the two parties... I mean, just which Big Boy pushed the Dems to take on health care reform??? Far as I can see there weren't any... Yeah, okay, becausw the legislation went thru so many changes some companies will benefit but... ...best I know the Dems did this because they thought it was the correct thing to do... That shows me some courage and when I hear Dems speak they are talkin' about ideas these days... This is a departure from twiddle-dee-twiddle-dum... That is my only point here... Where are the Repubs ideas??? Same place as Richard Nixon's "Secret Plan" for Vietnam??? B~ |
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08 Sep 10 - 09:04 PM (#2982812) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Little Hawk What "health care reform" turned into, Bobert, was a financial windfall for the private health insurance industry, and they ARE one of the "Big Boys". This is how you take the public's hunger for real change and turn it into a quasi-change that simply improves the position of the elites who benefited from the previous system that was in place...that is, the private health insurers. Pretty much smoke and mirrors as far as I can see. Obama had to bring in some sort of new health plan, because he made it the centerpiece of his campaign....so the corporate elites worked on that legislation with their lobbying power until it was fashioned in a way that suited them, while the rest of the developed world, most of which already has universal single-payer health insurance, watched in utter amazement, dumfounded at the reactionary forces at play in America. |
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08 Sep 10 - 09:37 PM (#2982840) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Little Hawk Just as a reminder, Bobert, here's an article by Michael Moore from shortly before the bill passed: Obama's phony health care reform Now, remember, Michael Moore was a very enthusiastic supporter of Barack Obama. He fought hard to get Obama elected, but he was bitterly disappointed by what the health care bill mutated into, and he explains it quite clearly. |
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09 Sep 10 - 02:52 AM (#2982913) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Little Hawk: "What "health care reform" turned into, Bobert, was a financial windfall for the private health insurance industry,....." I argued that very point, in here, when the bill was coming up for a vote. Yes, a GOOD health care bill WOULD HAVE BEEN great....but this hokey re-incarnation of the remnant of a 'heath care' bill,is more destructive both to our FREEDOMS, and probably not too great for your health, as well! Little Hawk, I read the link you posted...very interesting. I thank you for it! It's just another confirmation, of what I've been thinking, and expressing on here...but, alas, usually on deaf ears. In an earlier post, I mentioned that we had a great system, and you sorta took exception to that. I think you misunderstood what I meant. The key word was 'HAD'. The system was originally founded to insure our FREEDOMS from tyranny, and guaranteed personal FREEDOMS, as long as ones 'WILL' did not infringe on another's RIGHTS. When I look out there, both business and Government do exactly that!..Impose their 'wills' on our 'rights' ...though the game they use, is to make it sound as if our 'rights' are granted by them! Our rights, inalienable rights, are given to us by 'Our Creator'..not by government, not by corporations, and certainly NOT by the lies perpetuated by both, to give us the 'illusion' that they are the givers, and not the takers(away)!! However, the baiting enticements that they dangle in front of us, are designed to have us RELINQUISH our personal freedoms, in trade for some 'benefit' that we didn't really need, due to the fact, that we give up personal responsibility, and that includes, the responsibility, to not have ALLOWED, through compromise, this whole mess, to get out of control...OUR control. They offer lame solutions, for the mess they created in the first place, then 'sugar coat' it, and make it sound as if, they are insuring us of a new extension of some 'right'!...Its ALL bullshit!! ..and the more they are exposed, the more desperate they become..hence, the 'squeeze' is even MORE upon us! Those who subscribe to the obsolete notion, that a 'party' can fix it, are living in the past, and CANNOT see the problems accurately, because they spin both the problems, and spin a hard sell an yet, another, ..you guessed it,..'solution'. That goes for health care, the borders, energy, employment, or UN-employment, marriage, families, morality, and the very 'trends' of our culture(past tense). We have become scroungers, for what little is left...AND THAT IS BY DESIGN!!! They want the 'only solution' to be recognized, and to be looked for, is themselves!....That is one big FAT lie! I don't believe it, some of you don't believe it, and others are waiting for an epiphany...but until they get it, well, I guess we have to endure more of the party's line rhetoric!..from both sides. And that's my story, and I'm stickin' to it.... ..unless, of course, THE CREATOR slaps me upside my head, and tells me different. One thing for sure, the truth, cannot be trusted, coming from the body politic! All we get, is 'stereo politicians speaking from both sides of their mouth'!! <<<(original, copyrighted line). OK, enough rant, for now...... Yo-Ho!! GfS |
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09 Sep 10 - 11:43 AM (#2983160) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Bobert Ya'll's readin' gone down hill... What I said was, yeah, this somewhat lackin' legislation certainly has winners and loosers in it... That's not my point... Those came from the screwed up fillibuster rule... What I am askin', that no one want's to acknowledge, is which Big Boy Lobbying firm was pushing the Dems to take this on in the ***first place***??? That is the issue here... Not how a dysfunctional legislative body passed such an imperfect bill... Or who will benefit... That's where I give the Dems a thumbs up... They could have just done the Rope-a-Dope goin' into the midterms and probably would be better off... They knew in pushing this bill that they would pay a price... That, my friends, deserves some level of respect even if you hate the bill... B~ |
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09 Sep 10 - 12:09 PM (#2983186) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: beardedbruce So, Bobert, a BAD bill is better than no bill at all???? Too bad you didn't think that was true about Bush's efforts. |
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09 Sep 10 - 12:57 PM (#2983223) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Little Hawk I think it's possible, Bobert, that Obama had genuine intentions (prior to being elected, I mean) of doing something to provide decent health care coverage for people. He may be a real idealist when it comes to that. Or....maybe it was just a clever campaign ploy by the Democrats to get votes. I don't know. Whichever it was, he was unable to realize the promise of that ideal effectively after getting elected, because the corporate lobbying against it was too powerful. So he ended up with a badly botched and feeble attempt at reforming health care, but he avoided a total defeat which would have pretty much killed his presidency. GfS - I agree with what you say. Governments would like us to believe that solutions can only come from them, because that secures their power and keeps the public quite helpless. And they work in collusion with the banks and corporations, each washing the other's dirty laundry, and marketing to the lobotomized public. True enough. On the other hand, governments are inevitable. We cannot have modern societies without governments of some kind in place. We just need far better governments in place than what we presently have. I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for that to happen, though...because the odds against it happening are enormous. I know that my future depends entirely on me, and that I can't expect much of anything from the government, because that would be like expecting it from Santa Claus. Anyway, you are essentially correct. The Emperor has no clothes. And he is desperately in need of a bath too. And he should probably be arrested and charged with treason. ;-) (I'm not referring to Mr Obama, specifically when I say that...I'm referring to the entire ruling system and BOTH the Democratic and Republican Parties. Obama's just the latest presidential "face" the ruling system has put in front of itself like a mask...something for the people to focus on so they don't notice the beast that stands behind it.) |
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09 Sep 10 - 01:47 PM (#2983269) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Donuel It would be heaven for anyone with an annual income above $8,000,000 a year. |
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09 Sep 10 - 01:58 PM (#2983281) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: mousethief So, Bobert, a BAD bill is better than no bill at all???? Too bad you didn't think that was true about Bush's efforts. Bush passed a health care bill? It would be heaven for anyone with an annual income above $8,000,000 a year. And those with such incomes have worked very hard to make it, and keep it, so. |
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09 Sep 10 - 02:07 PM (#2983291) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Donuel Inheritence is rather common. Perhaps some worked hard for enourmous sums of cash and some didn't. Its unusual for you to paint with a broad brush.. . But anyway thats not the issue. The issue is that enhancing wealth for the wealthy does not put as much money into the economy as middle class spending. Special benefits for the rich only serve to slow an economic recovery since the rich will generally save/hoard money. The wealthy may want to trade up to a better yacht but generally they have alreaady spent on the big ticket items for a lifetime. Don;t bother to say they will generate more jobs. I agree but those jobs are mostly for China and India. ECONOMIC PATRIOTISM is a movement encourage the rich to make jobs in America, which they have been loath to do for 25 years. |
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09 Sep 10 - 05:56 PM (#2983468) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Little Hawk That's because they go where the labour is cheapest. It's another way of getting rich(er). Mousethief - GfS was not saying that Bush passed a health care bill. She was quite clearly saying that Bobert would not say of ANY bill that was passed by the Bush administration that "a BAD bill is better than no bill at all". And she's not defending Bush in so saying. She has criticized Bush and the Republicans as strenuously as she criticizes Obama and the Democrats. She is saying it, I think, to remind Bobert that may be getting caught up in the usual American dilemma: the great bipartisan struggle which dictates that one must always support one of those phony parties, no matter what, and always demonize the other, no matter what. To do that is not to think, but merely to react in a repetitive and predictable manner. One should be able to criticize either party when it misbehaves, and they both misbehave a great deal. I prefer the Democrats to the Republicans (and always have), but I am extremely disappointed in how they caved in to the health insurance industry and allowed that health care bill to be eviscerated by the lobbyists. I'm also extremely disappointed in their continuation of the Afghan war and their general policy in the Middle East. Do I think the Republicans would do even worse? Yeah, most likely they would. But it's the Democrats who are doing it now, so they deserve some criticism for it, in my opinion. You don't deserve to get a free ride just because you are NOT the Republicans... ;-) |
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09 Sep 10 - 06:01 PM (#2983471) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: mousethief Mousethief - GfS was not saying that Bush passed a health care bill. She was quite clearly saying that Bobert would not say of ANY bill that was passed by the Bush administration that "a BAD bill is better than no bill at all" Well maybe there was no bill passed by the Bush administration that Bobert thought should have been passed at all? Those of us who think that health care reform was long overdue (still is) were happy to see SOMETHING get passed. Those of us who enjoy our freedoms weren't happy to see the Patriot Act get passed, whether it was a good or bad version. |
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09 Sep 10 - 06:04 PM (#2983473) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Ebbie You've got beardedbruce and GfS a bit conflated, Little Hawk. Of course, it does save time. |
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09 Sep 10 - 07:14 PM (#2983513) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Little Hawk You're quite right, Ebbie. It was Bearded Bruce's post I was referring to. I got so involved in typing my little essay, that I carelessly referred to it as having been GfS who said that, not BB. In any case, the point he was making remains identical. He was clearly referring to bills in general, not health care bills, when he referred to "Bush's efforts". |
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09 Sep 10 - 08:37 PM (#2983568) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Bobert Well, "No Child Left Behind" was okay... Not great but better than nuthin'... Too bad that Bush refused to write the checks that the bill called for... Had he funded "No Child Left Behind" then it might have had better results... Other than that, I can't think of anything to say positive about the legislation that the Bush administration pushed that was worth pushing, including the DHS, which of course, was a dem idea that Bush took up and pushed... As for what the Dems were able to get thru the Repub minefield on health care reform??? Yeah, it beats a blanka nd is at least a beginning to what can one day work to bring down our health care costs of the current 17% of GNP closer to the 8% of GNP of our industrialized nation competitors... And maybe even get US some better health in doing so??? But, yeah, it is a work in progress but... ...it's on the books and even if the Repubs take back control of Congress they won't have the kind of majority it would take to undo it... Of course they have their secret weapon: The Supremes who have been in the legislative mood of late... B~ |
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09 Sep 10 - 09:07 PM (#2983585) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Bobert: "Too bad that Bush refused to write the checks that the bill called for... Had he funded "No Child Left Behind" then it might have had better results..." Too bad that that particular bill wasn't coupled with teacher PERFORMANCE instead of certain 'less than stellar' teachers, getting by with just paying unions dues...insuring their job security, when some of them, frankly, suck square eggs. .Then, the funding could have not been so important, as EFFICIENCY!!!!! Oh! Perish the thought!...that would put a kink in what we have...a bloated inefficient bureaucracy..WASTING tax payers hard earned money, just to keep a bloated, crappy status quo! GfS |
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09 Sep 10 - 09:24 PM (#2983594) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: mousethief And the way NCLB works is that, from underfunded schools that are struggling, they .... punish them by taking away funds! That makes sense! Because if we can't afford good education with X dollars, then maybe we can afford it for X-Y. |
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09 Sep 10 - 10:26 PM (#2983619) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Bobert Somewhere in between GfinS and mouser is the answer... Ain't all about teacher's unions or funding for public education... Need to find some middle ground... More funding = better education... But... ...better teachers = better education, too... (I know... How'd the 'ol hillbilly squeeze in any knowledge ohn things like *edgee-cation*, ahhhhh, yeah... I confess to havin' taught 5th/6th combination for two years before thinkin' "These people is crazy, you know, the kids" and decided to take a job teaching GED in the Richmond City Jail... I mean, 5th/6th is tough... Way too many *horror*mones*... The jail was more like hangin' out and gettin' paid to teach a little, too...) But, yeah, everyone has to pull here 'cause we're lettin' our population turn into this massive blob of humanity that has been *epsilon'd*... That's about education... (But, Boberdz... Think about it this way... How many people do we really have to have that have any real concept of what "thinking" means???) Ahhhhhh, is this multiple choice??? See what I mean??? B~ BTW, when in doubt, pick "C"... |
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10 Sep 10 - 12:54 AM (#2983685) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Bobert: "The jail was more like hangin' out and gettin' paid to teach a little, too...)" Bobert: ".....These people is crazy, you know, the kids" and decided to take a job teaching GED in the Richmond City Jail.." So, besides underlining my point, are you bragging?..or complaining? It doesn't sound like efficiency, or a desire to teach kids was your top motivation....I mean from your post....I mean, as well, was it a living wage?..you know, for hanging out.........? GfS |
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10 Sep 10 - 10:07 AM (#2983899) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Amos "It's hard to overstate how destructive the economic ideas offered earlier this week by John Boehner, the House minority leader, would be if put into practice. Basically, he proposes two things: large tax cuts for the wealthy that would increase the budget deficit while doing little to support the economy, and sharp spending cuts that would depress the economy while doing little to improve budget prospects. Fewer jobs and bigger deficits — the perfect combination. More broadly, if Republicans regain power, they will surely do what they did during the Bush years: they won't seriously try to address the economy's troubles; they'll just use those troubles as an excuse to push the usual agenda, including Social Security privatization. They'll also surely try to repeal health reform, which would be another twofer, reducing economic security even as it increases long-term deficits. " Paul Krugman, NYT |
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10 Sep 10 - 03:53 PM (#2984127) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: DougR It appears to me that interesting days lie ahead. DougR |
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10 Sep 10 - 04:07 PM (#2984133) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Amos You drooling, amigo?? :D A |
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10 Sep 10 - 04:53 PM (#2984153) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Little Hawk It's like watching a pendulum. ;-) The main reason being this: the key way to becoming extremely unpopular, even hated, is to get elected! By one or two years into your term of office the majority of the public will realize you ain't the blessed saviour they hope you were and they will probably hate your guts. That's why you have 2 parties in the USA...so the pendulum process can work itself out in the least compicated way possible. We have about 5 parties in Canada, so the hatred gets spread around and diffused a lot more here, and is therefore not so violent as in the USA. Nevertheless, I can tell you without a doubt that the party that's been in power for awhile in Canada is normally the most hated party in the country. The public instinctively resents those in power far more than they resent those out of power, because they know darned well that their government is robbing them. This is the case in pretty much every nation. ;-D |
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10 Sep 10 - 05:00 PM (#2984156) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: DougR Not really, Amos. I'm probably one of the few on this forum that is not surprised by what is happening. I think I even predicted it happening sometime last year (after the health care bill was rammed through the Congress). I realize most of my liberal friends are concerned and disappointed but I believe the Obama administration misread the political philosophy of the majority of American people. Obama ran for office as a uniter and proved to be a divider. He ran as a centrist and rules as a liberal. That simply won't fly in the U. S. DougR |
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10 Sep 10 - 05:26 PM (#2984171) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Bobert GfinS, Both... Complainin' about the 12-13 year olds and braggin' how much better it was to be teaching GED in the Richmond jail... Did I meake any real money doin' either??? No, not back then... Took a paycut to work at the jail... But, hey, that was back in my save-the-world days... Took another paycut to take a similar job at Rubicon, Richmonds drug treatment half-way house... But, hey, I purdy much lived there so I didn't have to buy food... But the pay was right at subsistence level... Amos, Pual Krugman has hit the nail on the head... Boenher's formula for fixing the economy is about as realistic as using leeches to cure disease... It is very backward... The best part about it is that Obama can veto stupid stuff that the Repubs do to entertain their not-so-enlightened base... Dougie, You are right... It is going to be very interesting... But things in Germany in 1933 were, as well... It's always dengerous when super-patriotism takes over where common sense used to live... B~ |
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10 Sep 10 - 05:31 PM (#2984175) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Little Hawk Every candidate runs for office as a uniter, Doug. That's standard election-time feelgood propaganda. Besides....who doesn't think, in his more optimistic moments, that he can unite the country behind him? Would anyone run for president who didn't think that he could unite the country behind him????? When they get into office, however, they must serve huge vested interests such as major corporations, banks, the Dept of Defence, etc....NOT the public. They must. That's the way the $ySSTEm works. This is why they cannot unite the country. They're not serving the interests of most of the people IN the country. And besides...there's always that pesky other party, which will make it pretty well impossible for the one in power to actually get much done most of the time. It's a situation 100% guaranteed NOT to unite the country. The only thing on Earth that can unite the USA is a sudden and vicious attack on America by some foreign power (or someone pretending to be some foreign power). 911, for example. That united the country for awhile. So did Pearl Harbour. You're dreaming when you say Obama's "liberal". LOL!!!!! His policies would certainly not be seen as liberal anywhere except in the USA. He is somewhat right of center, Doug...a little bit right of center. But he is essentially exactly what he "pretended" to be. He's a centrist. The reason Mudcatters are disappointed is because he has, indeed, proven NOT to be a genuine liberal....he just sounds like one. (He's an excellent speaker.) Sounding like a liberal, of course, is all it takes to fool any American conservative into imagining you're the next thing to a blood-drinking Communist, because they don't even know what a liberal is. ;-) It's a phantasm that haunts their dreams and it bears no resemblance to reality. p.s. - I'm not a bit surprised at what is happening either, Doug. It's about what I would have expected. |
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10 Sep 10 - 05:39 PM (#2984181) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Amos Exkyuuuze me, but the divisions in this nation date back to Reagan, and if anyone ever asserted they were a uniter who proved to be divisive, it was your friend George W. Obama asserted there are not a blue and a red America--there is a United States. A lot of people cheered him for that but a large number--perhaps 40% set out very loudly to prove him wrong at every turn, and to prove how divided they felt. I think p'raps you ar ebeing a bit disingenuous. My concern is not that Obama has divided the country, but that a country divided against itself has prevented even the most talented of leaders from making as much headway as he could have otherwise done. A |
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10 Sep 10 - 07:30 PM (#2984241) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: DougR Paul Krugman, Bobert? He promotes the economic philosophy that has caused the economy to struggle since Obama has been president! It hasn't worked. Yes, LH, I realize "liberal" and "conservative" have different meanings depending upon the country one lives in but where Obama screwed up is he "suckered" the Independents into believing he was what he is not. And he lost that large block of support as a result. DougR |
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10 Sep 10 - 08:11 PM (#2984260) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Little Hawk It is the normal business of both parties to sucker the Independents into believing they are what they are not, Doug. ;-) The party that does a better job at it normally wins the election...specially if the public is heartily sick to death of the other party by then...and that will always happen after the other party's been in power awhile, specially when the economy tanks. That's sort of how it works here in Canada too. And probably everywhere else. Nothing kills a party's popularity like a severe economic downturn. It killed McCain in 2008, and it's killing Obama now. Incumbents always get blamed for a bad economy, whether or not the trouble got started in their own term. They are expected to do magic if they inherit a bad economy from the previous administration. ;-) Of course they can't. So they are usually screwed...unless they can get the USA involved in a new war. A war is a very good way of taking people's mind off a bad economy, not to mention providing defence-related jobs. Or should I say offence-related jobs? But it's got to be timed right. George H. W. Bush's war on Iraq, for instance, didn't last long enough to keep his popularity high very long, and the economy took a nosedive after that war was over. Now, if Obama could just get a REALLY nasty war with Iran happening....maybe drop a nuke or two...I'm sure that would be sufficient to get people to rally round the administration. It might require some sort of overt attack on America by someone first, though, one that could be blamed on Iran. That would work far better than anything else he could come up with. He is not going to be able to pull a genie out of a bottle and fix this economy. |
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10 Sep 10 - 08:14 PM (#2984262) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Bobert No, Dougie... The person who is responsible for the economic woes since Obama has been in office is good ol'... ...George W.... That's the real story here... Face it, the fall of '08 was purdy scarey... The economy was collapsing all around us and folks were, frankly, purdy danged scared that the entire economy was goin' in the crapper... Obama's folks looked around and saw alot of problem areas... Even Obama said publically that he didn't think he was running for president just to spend his presdiency claening up after Bush... But that is what he is in the midst of doing... Of course, the American people are impatient... They have grown up accustomed to the government fixin' stuff and that's what we are in the midst of... Fixin' stuff... Hey, Dougie, it took 3 decades to make this mess so it ain't gonna get cleaned up overnight... But like most Americans, you think there is a magic wand that fixes everything that is broken... Well, I hate to tell ya' this, ol' buddy, but that magic wand don't exist... Paul Krugman is right... You don't fix defecits by diggin' a deeper hole... Extending the tax cuts to the rich, who BTW are just sittin' on piles of cashm ain't goin' fix no deficits... Gonna make 'um worse... Ain't rocket surgery here... BTW, I was listenin' to some financial program on NPR and they said that some guy is guarenteein' a 1% return on investments and has rich folks lined up at the ddor to plunk their buck there... That's 1%, Dougie... That tells ya' just how much cash the rich are fondlin' if they are lined up to get 1%... B~ |
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11 Sep 10 - 01:22 AM (#2984348) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: DougR Bobert: If it makes you happy to blame GWB for the world's problems, okay by me. I want you to be happy. DougR |
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11 Sep 10 - 01:31 AM (#2984350) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Bobert: "No, Dougie... The person who is responsible for the economic woes since Obama has been in office is good ol'... ...George W...." Poppycock!...It started long before him! Jeez, Are all the Democraps talking points centered around "It was Bush's fault?"...and NO!.I wasn't too crazy about Bush, either, but come on, get real. Whenever I hear a 'liberal' sucker, blabber about "It was all George Bush's fault(like a broken record), it tells me, right off the bat, that this is a moronic, duped parrot! So, come on Bobert, show some better sense. I think you're more intelligent than that! Amos Lightfoot: "...it was your friend George W. Obama......" Inadvertently, you are absolutely CORRECT. Take a bow!!! Doug R: "I realize most of my liberal friends are concerned and disappointed but I believe the Obama administration misread the political philosophy of the majority of American people." Correction, if you will: Actually, the Obama administration doesn't give a flying fuck in a Rat's ass about the, "political philosophy of the majority of American people."......or were you just being polite? Oh, and BOBERT, you want more money for education??..and wonder why it just doesn't help??? Get a load of this CRAP!!!!: "Half-Billion Dollar Schools Can't Fix American Education Sept. 10, 2010 At $578 million the Robert F. Kennedy School in Los Angeles is the most expensive public school ever built in America. It features a high-tech swimming pool, vaulted ceilings, a chic auditorium, and countless luxury amenities. This public school was constructed at a time when the district faces a $640 million deficit. Unfortunately, the profligate spending on the Robert F. Kennedy public school is NOT an isolated case. Los Angeles taxpayers are also on the hook for a $232 million Visual and Performing Arts High School as well as the $377 million Edward Roybal Learning Center. Such fiscal excess will NOT improve learning at a time when only 15 percent of 8th graders are proficient in reading and LESS THAN HALF of students graduate high school." Deomcrap legislature in California has done this, cowboy!...oh, and have screwed that state for decades, with the most ridiculous policies of fiscal irresponsibility!...and that my dear, folkie pal, is the absolute truth! GfS |
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11 Sep 10 - 12:23 PM (#2984566) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Bobert I agree, GfinS... Yeah, it isn't all Bush's faulth that the economy that he handed over to Obama was a gnat's eyelash away from flat-lining... It started with Reagan and everyone since, Slick Willie included, have just let it happen... Bush, however, actively aided in the demise with his tax cuts... Even Alan Greenspan was against them until being called to the Oval Office for some rubber-hose treatment... That was a fiscally irresponsible move on Bush's part and now we look back and see that those tax cuts didn't produce all them jobs afterall... What created those jobs was borrowed money and the housing market... Not tax cuts... As for education??? Yeah, it's not "all about" money but there are some basic standards that need to me maintained that does require money... But alot of stuff like things that Michelle Rhee is doing in DC aren't about money but about different systems and methods... With that said, just assuming that all, or even most, of the money that is going into public education is being wasted is not at all accurate... Most of the money is being spent wisely... B~ |
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11 Sep 10 - 05:35 PM (#2984738) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Amos Spending money on the Big War machine stimulated all kinds of jobs, many of them mortal. But spending money on that school, even if slightly off-target, was at least a more decent impulse than buying HE shells. A |
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11 Sep 10 - 08:47 PM (#2984814) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Bobert And at the risk of rilin' up GfinS, this notion that "spending more money won't fix ____________" is a Repub talkin' point... If they can get an "amen" to that then they have a clear field to suggest cuttin' this or that "domestic" spending... That can be problematic... I mean, there are one boat load of inner city schools that are in crappy condition.... And they are in crappy neighborhoods... Yeah, we were supposed to be desegregating schools but that hasn't quite happened... Bottom line??? Yeah, we have some very lousy underfunded schools with kids from homes that folks here in Mudcat can only imagine... That is reality... So along come Mr. Beohner (or yer Repub of choice) and says "Money can't fix everything" and then the folks in the Peanut Gallery's heads start noddin' like them plastic dolls that folks put in the back windows of their cars and next thing ya' know everyone wnats to strip the underfunded, underachieving school of any money at all??? Like shut the sumabich down... We got lotta that going on... We also have vouchers and charter schools... Charter schools are nuthin' but "scab" run schools with under-certified teachers.... So we are spending tax dollars to "buy" crappy teachers... Okay, that's not exactly fair... Many of the teachers in charter schools are very good... The point is that if a teacher is good then why can't we come up with a system that allows that teacher to teach in a public school??? I mean, that would be some real progress... Might of fact, why not pay them a little more and put them into that underfunded, underachieving public school in the "hood"??? Serious business... We should be lookin' at those kinds of things... Yeah, the Teacher's Union don't wnat no "scab" teacher no matter how good he/she is but, hey... Like I have said, we gotta think outside the box here... BTW, thinkin' outta the box, I been rethinking Huxley's "Brave New World" and I think we are either there or very close to being there and we are failin the "epsilons" because they just don't get it, they don't want to get it and their mamma and daddies have bought into the story that education ain't worth a flip so... ... here's a novel idea... How about expanding the Job Corps about 10 fold and when Johnny ain't learned squat by the 8th grade and he's in the back of the classroom with a needle and some ink making tatoos on himself then rather than try to get Johnny to the 9th grade why not just send him on to learn a trade??? (Horrors, Boberdz... What??? You gonna just give up on Johnny???) No, I'm not... I'm going to give him some skills so he doesn't think that breakin' into my barn, stealin' my prized Stihl chainsaw and sellin' it for $50 ain't like Johnny's career choice... I mean, college ain't fir everyone and these days, high school might not be either... Job Corps gives kids other info... Like balencing a checkbook... Like fillin' out an application... You know... Life skills that aren't being taught to Johnny in a high school settin'... There, GfinS... Lot there fir you to pick on... Have at it... lol... B~ |
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11 Sep 10 - 11:46 PM (#2984877) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Bobert, Have another drink! I'm not talking Republicunts and Democraps, or any other nonsense. You think throwing away tons of OUR tax money om over inflated school projects is Ok?...Well Ok. You think that kids learn by osmosis, being in luxurious classrooms, is anything more than some contractor getting greased, by some politician that he corrupted to get a project like that, well go ahead and think that. Loony bins are filled with that kind of thinking, and probably at taxpayers expense, as well. It's ALL government waste, at the behest of crooked business! So, Bottoms up, have another swig, and you too can be a legend in your own Wine, as well. No wonder you have stupid arguments with the Ol' Lady about mowing the yard, you're probably waiting for a government funded program to send some one over to do it for you.......hiccup...... P.S. Don't drive tonight! GfS |
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12 Sep 10 - 01:53 AM (#2984901) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Don Firth I was thinking about jumping into this thread, but I've changed my mind. My hip-waders are at the cleaners. Don Firth |
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12 Sep 10 - 01:49 PM (#2985143) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity That's Ok, Don...but you usually wear 'not so hip' waders! GfS |
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12 Sep 10 - 03:02 PM (#2985188) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Don Firth Been there. Done that. Grew a brain long ago. Don Firth |
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12 Sep 10 - 03:41 PM (#2985214) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Well, I wasn't asking on how your vegetable garden was doing. Wink, GfS P.S. But, was almost wondering if you won a blue ribbon at the county fair, with it..... |
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12 Sep 10 - 04:23 PM (#2985255) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: akenaton :0).....Stop diggin' Don! |
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12 Sep 10 - 10:06 PM (#2985465) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Bobert Nah, GfinS... It ain't about "throwin'" monet at any problem... It's callin' the Repun talkin' points where they try to disassmble the New Deal by harpin' over and over and over "Ya' can't fix __________ by throwin' money at it"... That, my dear, is 100%, unalterated, pure Republican talkin' ponts... Yeah. you might want to think yerself all "classless and free" but you are spinnin' Republican talking points here... B~ |
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13 Sep 10 - 01:34 AM (#2985526) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Oh Bobert, Either you can't see, for some twisted reason why this: "At $578 million the Robert F. Kennedy School in Los Angeles is the most expensive public school ever built in America. It features a high-tech swimming pool, vaulted ceilings, a chic auditorium, and countless luxury amenities. This public school was constructed at a time when the district faces a $640 million deficit. Unfortunately, the profligate spending on the Robert F. Kennedy public school is NOT an isolated case. Los Angeles taxpayers are also on the hook for a $232 million Visual and Performing Arts High School as well as the $377 million Edward Roybal Learning Center. Such fiscal excess will NOT improve learning at a time when only 15 percent of 8th graders are proficient in reading and LESS THAN HALF of students graduate high school." Is not solving ANY educational problems...or you need some professional help! I don't even need your explanation, you will only further embarrass yourself, and you don't need to do that (any more). If you think that this kind of waste is just a Republican 'talking point', and dismiss it at that, perhaps you can tell that to the folks in California, whose state is BROKE! If you can convince them of that, pull that off, maybe you should be the Governor's press secretary!!...Shit, maybe even run for President, and join the list of liars who have gotten away with murder!...phony wars, and bullshit bailouts.....maybe then you can convince the nation that the high unemployment rate is a blessing from the Democraps, and they are really a lot happier, thank they think they are...and re-elect you for a ninth term! Really, Bobs, come to your senses! However Regards, GfS |
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13 Sep 10 - 08:41 AM (#2985670) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Bobert The problem is that in seeking out just the goof-ups and trying to make them the poster child for the entire educational system isn't at all fair or unbiased... I mean, the Robert F. Kennedy School is certainly not representative of new school construction accross the country... BTW, looks as if Beonher has blinked on yje Bush tax cuts for the rich and now says he would vote to end them if such legislation should come up for a vote... Of course, I understand that such a bill would have to come in the form of extending tax cuts to folks making less than $250,000 a year... No matter, looks as if the Repubs polling let them know that they were not in line with public sentiment and had them in a major pickle... B~ |
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13 Sep 10 - 12:00 PM (#2985797) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Bobert, Your partisan politics, including the thread-bare mantra of blaming one side, as opposed to the other, of every single ill, of this country, has been over the top, and has COMPLETELY made you totally NOT believable. If you want ANY credibility, I'd suggest looking at the whole picture, instead of promoting just the Democrap talking points, which are in serious need of reality. I'm not the only one who has pointed this out to you, so it's not just 'you versus me'. If you want to promote one party exclusively, you close an eye to the bigger picture, therefore becoming half blind! GfS |
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13 Sep 10 - 12:55 PM (#2985850) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Bobert I didn't realize the Robert F. Kennedy School had anything to do with either Dems or Repubs, GfinS... It was a bad decission... Period... For the record, I ain't even a Dem... But I'm alot closer to a Dem than a Repub 'cause there isn't much in the way of Repub policies where I find any agreement... BTW, I can small a Repub talkin' point a mile away... I hear them every day and read them in the local newspaper... I am almost completely surrounded by Repubs... You can't get elected to even dogcatcher in Page County unless yer a repub (or say you are)... B~ |
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14 Sep 10 - 03:30 AM (#2986360) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Bobs: "For the record, I ain't even a Dem... But I'm alot closer to a Dem than a Repub....." Where am I?..Where's my computer? Actually I'm closer to the truth...these two groups are just too full of shit, for me!!! Regards, GfS |
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14 Sep 10 - 07:59 AM (#2986487) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Bobert Be sweet... |
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14 Sep 10 - 11:05 PM (#2986963) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Donuel As the Tea party demonizes all FAT LAZY RHINO Republicans we will see candidates like Ms. Christine O'Donell who just won the nomination for Deleware Seneator in the US COngress. She is for total abstinence which includes abstinence from oneself since Bible Law states that any sex outside of marriage is against God's law. Republican think tanks like the Hoover Institute are rueing the day that Dick Army created the Tea Party which was first designed to offer a short term replacement for the tattered damage goods of the Republican Party after Bush. |
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15 Sep 10 - 08:52 AM (#2987158) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Bobert Yeah, Donuel... This think is kinda backfiring on Dick Armey and Co... I just wondering what is going to happen when a few of these Tea-liban folks get into office with their extreme positions on policies that, frankly, other than their bumper sticker menatlities, are ill-equiped to deal with at a policy level... What??? Chastity belts??? B~ |
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15 Sep 10 - 11:45 AM (#2987264) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity |
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15 Sep 10 - 11:48 AM (#2987267) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Quite frankly, I don't see why a lot of you are demonizing the Tea Party....Chances are, they will split the Rebulicunt vote, and Obama will get re-elected, without Biden, however, because the Democraps will lose the House and Senate, in this upcoming election, he will not be able to accomplish much(damage). The thought for the day.... GfS |
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15 Sep 10 - 11:58 AM (#2987285) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Bobert: "What??? Chastity belts???" The old love to give advice to the young, which the old are no longer in shape to do! GfS |
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15 Sep 10 - 12:06 PM (#2987292) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Donuel Perhaps only 6 tea party candidates will make it to Congress. Imagine the reaction of senior Republican chairmen who not only will get no respect from these freshman, they will be subjected to disdain and a total ingnorance of procedure, protocol and even an iota of civility... which has already become nearly extinct in the Republican House. The tea party is about at its zenith since the mission they are on is at cross purposes with itself on two important facts. 1 IT has no leader (unless it is beck Palin and Rush) and 2 they are against the very notion of the job they were elected to do. |
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15 Sep 10 - 12:20 PM (#2987308) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity I think there's much ado about nothing, in regards to the Tea Partiers. I don't think they will win so much to control anything, BUT it does show the discontent with the two parties, as they are now. Ross Perot did that a few elections ago, and got Bill Clinton elected, if you remember. As far as Palin is concerned, I think it comical to watch the Demoraps squirm in their boots over her. Finally a woman runs(whether it be her mouth, or for office), and all the 'libs' who've been pushing for a woman, get her! She certainly has more appeal, than Hillary, who in my opinion is as crooked, and corrupt as they come, while Palin comes off in a different light. Palin is more of a 'pep talker', sort of the 'Glee Club' for the 'right', while Hillary is just the 'token bitch' for the 'left'. Of the two, ..hmmm....jeez, have to think about that one...... Can't we vote for, "None of the above?" ......Hmm...still thinking....... ...I guess it would come down to a matter of 'trust'..... ....hmmm....still thinking........................ GfS |
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15 Sep 10 - 12:29 PM (#2987312) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Bobert I don't see where liberals have ever thought it a good idea to have a "stupid" woman run for much of anything in the way of a government position... The "chastity belts" comments was in regards to the Delaware primary where the Tea Party lady who won it is for 100% abstinence until marriage... I mean, what else can ya do short of lockin' everyone up until they are married??? As fir "the old love to give advice to the young, which the old are no longer in shape to do"??? I'm young and able To buzz all night long Yeah, I'm young and able To Buzz all night long If ya' hear me buzzin', baby There's some stingin' going on B~ |
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15 Sep 10 - 12:35 PM (#2987318) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Bobert: "I'm young and able To buzz all night long Yeah, I'm young and able To Buzz all night long If ya' hear me buzzin', baby There's some stingin' going on Sounds like a 'King Bee' Viagra jingle! GfS |
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15 Sep 10 - 07:56 PM (#2987643) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Bobert LOL, GfinS... You been sniffin' 'round my medicine cabinet??? Hey, I hear they got Viagra for womenz??? Like what do womenz need that stuff fir??? B~ |
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16 Sep 10 - 12:25 AM (#2987751) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Bobert: "Hey, I hear they got Viagra for womenz??? Like what do womenz need that stuff fir???" Well, probably because some women have to argue with their ol' men about mowing the yard...and picking up the stuff in it, before they mow!! Wink, GfS |
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16 Sep 10 - 08:37 AM (#2987907) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: Bobert I can see the ad now... "Sex For Life" Tried everything on the market but still having problems with your wife in the bedroom??? Just go out and run the mower over all her stuff in the yard and see what an improvement sex can be like for her afterwards.... Guarenteed or double your money back!!! Hmmmmmmmm??? I am beginnin' to see the logic in yer thinkin', GfinS... Not... B;~) |
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16 Sep 10 - 08:51 AM (#2987918) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Well, you didn't get my logic, at all....Let's try yours....... Bobert: "I can see the ad now... "Sex For Life" "Tried everything on the market but still having problems with your wife in the bedroom??? Just go out and run the mower over her........" Then just convince yourself that she was really a Republicunt, in secret all along! Wink, GfS |
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16 Sep 10 - 09:10 AM (#2987929) Subject: RE: BS: What Would a Repub Admin be Like? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Richard S. Anderson (Democrap) |