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02 Sep 10 - 07:49 AM (#2978347) Subject: BS: What is the definition of a salesperson? From: I don't know Just wondered what everyone else's definition of a salesperson is. On my door I have a sign that says "NO SALESPERSONS" & one that says "NO COLD CALLING". Seems nobody understands either. Today I have had a young man at the door with leaflets for replacement windows. He rung the bell, & as I was expecting someone I answered to be faced with this guy pushing a leaflet at me & trying to tell me he wasn't a salesman, he was advertising that there company was working on a neighbours house & would I be interested in a 2 for 1 offer they were promoting. I asked him why he had rung the bell & he said "I am not really a salesperson selling you the product, unless you would like a quote which I could give you now. Well to me that was both cold calling & selling so he was sent of with a polite no thank you. People seem to think that unless they have a product in there hands they are not sales persons, I think anyone trying to sell anything with a leaflet,verbally or with goods is a salesperson what do you all think? |
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02 Sep 10 - 08:02 AM (#2978353) Subject: RE: BS: What is the definition of a salesperson? From: ragdall I think that he knew he was a salesperson and really didn't care what your sign said he was going to try to sell you his product. Signs here say "No salesmen or agents". rags |
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02 Sep 10 - 08:20 AM (#2978366) Subject: RE: BS: What is the definition of a salesperson? From: I don't know Just another note on the above, I had got back indoors to the phone ringing with a withheld number, I have caller ID. but because of recent events I thought I had better answer. It was a company offering me loft & house insulation & wanted to know if I had got my goverment grant through. That caller got a very short polite NO to both questions. We have the special number block in place but the firms are getting round it by using the withheld option. I think this is all wrong as some people get easily confused & then end up with things they don't need or paying over the odds for them. |
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02 Sep 10 - 08:32 AM (#2978371) Subject: RE: BS: What is the definition of a salesperson? From: GUEST,MikeL2 hi Yes we are getting an increase of "sales" calls. We too have caller |ID and we block specific numbers. You are right in that by calling "witheld" it seems to let them through our filters. Also we get calls that say " INTERNATIONAL" and these too are similar companies selling things like home insulation and double glazing. We have contacted BT but they say that they can't do anything about it. What they really mean is that they do not want to do anything. Cheers MikeL2 |
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02 Sep 10 - 08:35 AM (#2978373) Subject: RE: BS: What is the definition of a salesperson? From: GUEST,erbert Grow dense ivy and thorn plants over the entire front of your house and hang realistic looking thatrical prop skulls and voodoo bone & feather Talismans over the front door. Using a paint that resembles aged and weathered blood, scrawl on the door with a finger "Uninvited callers will never be heard of or seen again" ..might work depending on your rural location.... |
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02 Sep 10 - 08:59 AM (#2978392) Subject: RE: BS: What is the definition of a salesperson? From: McGrath of Harlow Do Jehovah's Witnesses count? |
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02 Sep 10 - 09:37 AM (#2978407) Subject: RE: BS: What is the definition of a salesperson? From: Wesley S I've been told that door to door salespeople see those signs as evidence of your weakness. That you wouldn't put up those signs unless you had trouble resisting their products. It's a challenge to them. Not a warning. |
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02 Sep 10 - 11:21 AM (#2978477) Subject: RE: BS: What is the definition of a salesperson? From: Backwoodsman "Do Jehovah's Witnesses count?" IMHO, yes. However, whilst a Jobey will bugger off if you tell him/her you're a practising RC, a 'normal' salesman (if, in fact, any salesman could ever truly be deemed to be 'normal' in any accepted sense of the word) won't turn a hair, and will just keep on with their crappy patter and the foot-in-the-door until you get savage and tell them directly to Foxtrot Oscar. :-) |
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02 Sep 10 - 11:29 AM (#2978483) Subject: RE: BS: What is the definition of a salesperson? From: gnu I have a sign on the front door... "Use back door." I have a sign on the back door... yup. |
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02 Sep 10 - 11:38 AM (#2978490) Subject: RE: BS: What is the definition of a salesperson? From: Uncle_DaveO A well-trained salesman will have been trained in (or perhaps developed his own) a "tree" of responses, of dodges to get around any quibble or objection the prospect raises. The object is not to recognize a dismissal, to keep some sort of conversation going, to probe for some sort of effective talking point. Even when faced with "No, thank you, goodbye" he may well have in his stock of points some rejoinder, struggling to keep the exchange open. So your young man at the door was following his protocol. I like to say, "Oh, you're not selling anything? That's good; I'm not buying anything," just before I close the door in his face. Dave Oesterreich |
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02 Sep 10 - 12:12 PM (#2978524) Subject: RE: BS: What is the definition of a salesperson? From: John P My sign says "No Solicitors" but I've been told by both religious folks and by people collecting for non-profit organizations that they aren't soliciting because they aren't trying to sell me anything. I usually tell them to go read a dictionary and close the door in their face. |
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02 Sep 10 - 01:09 PM (#2978575) Subject: RE: BS: What is the definition of a salesperson? From: katlaughing I was an "account executive" which is just a fancy term for saleperson, but I sold to businesses, advertising, and was generally welcome, even on cold calls AND our sales manager told us we had not been told "no thanks" absolutely until we'd been "thrown out," but he didn't mean it, literally. We were trained in what is called "Consultant Selling" in which one learns to be a good listener, offer feedback on what they've been told by the client, i.e., "so if I understand you correctly, Mr. So and So, your business provides this to the public and your main market is transplanted Martians," or somesuch. By doing so, the business person feels well heard and as though the salesperson really understands them. Much like what a therapist might do in a counselling session.:-) I can't stand any of them coming to our front door. We get a lot of Mormon missionaries. My Rog likes to play with them...he's got a wicked, dry irony about him and is very well-read with an agile and subtle mind. He's like a cat with a mouse...the poor things don't know what to do. Me, I don't answer the door, if I do, they do not get a chance to say anything. I tell them I am not interested and shut the door, the whole time while my I have this on my front door: so that you will not harass me. In other words, NO SOLICITORS includes Peddlers of Religion. NO SOLICITORS. |
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02 Sep 10 - 01:15 PM (#2978581) Subject: RE: BS: What is the definition of a salesperson? From: Arthur_itus When I realise it's a sales person, I just say Would you like a job with sex and travel If and when they reply yes I then say Fuck Off and shut the door. |
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02 Sep 10 - 01:53 PM (#2978619) Subject: RE: BS: What is the definition of a salesperson? From: Alice I also did sales like kat, consultant selling to businesses. At my front door of the house I posted No Soliciting - that means the missionaries, too. A. |
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02 Sep 10 - 02:03 PM (#2978624) Subject: RE: BS: What is the definition of a salesperson? From: jacqui.c We haven't had a Mormon come to the door since Kendall quizzed them on their knowledge of the Mountain Meadow Massacre. For my part I just say no thank you and close the door in their face, or on their foot if they are stupid enough to get it in the way. say no thank you and hang up on phone cold callers and also on wrong numbers, having told them that so and so doesn't live here. I've done the latter since one idiot had the temerity to argue with me that they had got the wrong number! |
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02 Sep 10 - 02:03 PM (#2978625) Subject: RE: BS: What is the definition of a salesperson? From: McGrath of Harlow Generally speaking in my experience lawyers don't go round door to door. |
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02 Sep 10 - 02:27 PM (#2978643) Subject: RE: BS: What is the definition of a salesperson? From: EBarnacle In the US, political call and visits don't come under the "NO" rule. |
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02 Sep 10 - 02:29 PM (#2978646) Subject: RE: BS: What is the definition of a salesperson? From: John P My great-grandmother was a tiny Dutch woman with a very heavy accent who was also an astonishing self-taught Biblical scholar. Whenever a religious solicitor came to the door, she'd invite them in and debate them, using chapter and verse to make her points. They often couldn't get away for an hour or more, as she was even better than they at using the rules of polite social interaction to make sure they heard what she had to say. Very entertaining. |
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02 Sep 10 - 03:46 PM (#2978713) Subject: RE: BS: What is the definition of a salesperson? From: GUEST,bonzo3legs A good plain fuck off usually does the trick! |
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02 Sep 10 - 03:48 PM (#2978716) Subject: RE: BS: What is the definition of a salesperson? From: GUEST,bonzo3legs Given one minute's warning I'll grab my Sansa Clip and put it on voice record, so I can play it back afterwards!! |
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02 Sep 10 - 03:58 PM (#2978725) Subject: RE: BS: What is the definition of a salesperson? From: SINSULL I have been in sales my entire adult life. It is painfully simple. Say "I am not interested." And repeat it. DO NOT offer a reason which will create a conversation. Just say "No". Or you can do what my brother does - keep them on the phone or at the door forever with questions, observations, price comparisons, etc. And when the guy finally asks for the sale say "Oh no. I'm not interested, just curious." Cruel but effective if you have time to waste. And I agree - that sign is a challenge not a statement of fact. i like gnu's signs though. |
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02 Sep 10 - 04:09 PM (#2978740) Subject: RE: BS: What is the definition of a salesperson? From: Q (Frank Staplin) We tell them no. Except for Mormon missionaries, who are given a cold drink if it is a hot day. They are mostly college students. Lots of LDS in southern Alberta, large scale sugar beet growers and the largest ranch in the province among other enterprises. I remember when Safeway was originally an LDS enterprise, but sold off many years ago. |
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02 Sep 10 - 04:21 PM (#2978752) Subject: RE: BS: What is the definition of a salesperson? From: Dave MacKenzie Have you noticed how the vast majority of call centre employees have hung up by the time you,ve asked them to repeat their name three times and then spell it (slowly), then repeat their company name three times then spell it slowly, and then explain how they've nothing to do with a company with a vaguely similar name? They hang up even faster if you then say that you've just been reading about their company's billing system in the financial pages of The Guardian (or Times etc) |
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02 Sep 10 - 05:17 PM (#2978797) Subject: RE: BS: What is the definition of a salesperson? From: I don't know My husband has just taken a call where he was asked to answer consummer questions, first thing he did was asked how much he would be paid. when the person asked what he ment, there was no payment he replied "well you are being paid to ask the questions so why not me for answering them" with that they hung up. |
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02 Sep 10 - 05:26 PM (#2978806) Subject: RE: BS: What is the definition of a salesperson? From: gnu SINS... I did have a sign on my garage... "Beware of dog." But, it scared delivery sorts and such. So, I got rid of the sign and put in (on) the large fake doggy door with a 100 grade chain into it bolted to the wall. A while ago, two very tall and blonde lads came to my front door wearing the uniforms. I greeted them with my usual, "Black Irish Catholic here..." But, in a change of heart, I asked where they were from. Utah. I said I always wanted to visit Utah and the northwestern states as I had seen TV programs of same and it looked idyllic. They chimed that it was and that they would love to have me visit. I said I would love to and asked if they would pay my way. I didn't accept the pamphlets and I didn't get airfare. |
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02 Sep 10 - 05:39 PM (#2978817) Subject: RE: BS: What is the definition of a salesperson? From: EBarnacle You can always post a sign saying "Just go away." Then, when they knock anyway, ask them whether they can read, shake your head pityingly and close the door. |
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02 Sep 10 - 05:44 PM (#2978823) Subject: RE: BS: What is the definition of a salesperson? From: McGrath of Harlow A friendly "No Thanks" and close the door works pretty well. No need to get all aerated about it. |
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03 Sep 10 - 01:54 AM (#2979036) Subject: RE: BS: What is the definition of a salesperson? From: Slag One of the best lines I ever heard in a movie came from "Princess Bride" when the Dread Pirate Robert tells Honeybuns (or whatever her name was): "Life is pain and if anyone tries to tell you different, he's selling something." There is so much truth and wisdom in that short line that I still marvel over it! Selling has got to be one, if not THE hardest jobes to do. You have to be part pachytderm because most folks feel the way you all feel: annoyed, bothered or outright angry. You have to be therapist or at least chameleon in order to identify with your intended victim, er mark, uh! PROSPECT! That's it, PROSPECT! You have to deal with rejection on a personal level as well as the rejection of whatever the product you are pushing. You have to deal with the stress from above to perform consistently and successfully. You have to be a psychologist to create or enhance the "need" for the product. You also need to be quick to counter the counter-arguements, should they arise. There are many more aspects to being a salesman but at the core, the salesman represents free enterprize in its purest form. It is law of the jungle, the hunter-gatherer. If you are successful you eat that night (or week, as the case may be) or if not, it may be kibble and bits. Toughest job there is. Fortunately I'm in a rather secluded local and only have to deal with an ocassional JW or Mormon. I have several techniques that I use with these folks, depending on how much time I have. If I'm real short on time (or patience) I just tell them that I have a case number from the Sheriff's Department (which I do!) and if they aren't gone in ten seconds I'm putting in the call. That usually holds them for three or four years until a new batch comes around. |
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03 Sep 10 - 05:01 AM (#2979103) Subject: RE: BS: What is the definition of a salesperson? From: Leadfingers Being a tight fisted old git , I dont want to pay out for Call Screening , so use my Answerphone for this ! IF I am at home I pick up if the recorder runs for a few seconds - MOST cold callers just hang up as soon as they realise its an answer phone . And BT has NO control over Cold Callers from outside UK no matter what blocks you have opted for on your line |
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03 Sep 10 - 07:36 AM (#2979166) Subject: RE: BS: What is the definition of a salesperson? From: GUEST,Patsy I had a salesman call once at my door when I was married with young children and he used a sales pitch by asking if my mum and dad was home I suppose he thought I would be swayed by the flattery. But it backfired and said 'sorry mummy and daddy are not in right now' and closed the door on him. Bet he changed his sales technique after that. |
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03 Sep 10 - 07:50 AM (#2979172) Subject: RE: BS: What is the definition of a salesperson? From: GUEST,Uncle Rumpo I don't get dressed until later in the day if I need to go out. So if I get annoying rings on the doorbell I first look through the spy hole lens, and if it's not the postman, utility meter readers, or a policeman; then decide on one of three options a] ignore the caller. b] if the ringing and knocking persists, I open the door slightly on the security chain and moan gruffly "This'd better be important. You've just got me off the toilet and I've got paper stuffed up my arse, what do you want !!???" c] if around Easter it's the elderly ladies from the local god- botherers I open the door and stand there with a welcoming smile on my face and a friendly "Good morning" whilst wearing nothing but a skimpy towel around my blubbery old waist... ... whatever, a firm [verging on hostile] "nah, I'm not interested" always clears any unwelcome visitor off my doorstep. |
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03 Sep 10 - 08:14 AM (#2979181) Subject: RE: BS: What is the definition of a salesperson? From: SINSULL "Selling" implies that you are talking someone into buying something they neither want nor need. I have always sold products and services to businesses - they need them at the right price with the right service and at the right time. Meeting needs is what I do and I do it well. Believe it or not our sales group daily tells people that they don't need our services or at least don't need them yet. We give them information, suggestions and send them off for a more sensible solution to their problem. And with that, we are one of the fastest growing companies in our field. My point is that before you get defensive and slam the door, be sure it's not something you may need or want. Even the godbotherers have something of value to share. |
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03 Sep 10 - 04:02 PM (#2979472) Subject: RE: BS: What is the definition of a salesperson? From: Uncle_DaveO I have a little story to tell, which gives an insight into the best kind of salesmanship (in my opinion). Many years ago I worked in the office of an electronic manufacturers representative organization, in Minneapolis. Those of you who know something about the manufacturers rep business will be astonished to hear me say that we had eighteen salesmen, where usually mfrs reps are lone eagles, or at most two or three reps in an office. But our eighteen covered Minnesota, Wisconsin, North and South Dakota, Iowa, and for some lines, Kansas. Usually mfrs reps push just one to maybe three lines of products; we sold seventy-five! Some of the guys, "the Industrials", sold to OEM electronic manufacturers, things like custom made face plates, various electronic switches, custom wiring harnesses, and on and on. By and large these guys did not call on the next class of customer I'll mention. One of them did straddle that line, mainly because of the characteristics of his territory. Some of our reps (I'll call them "Retails") sold to retailers, such as hi-fi stores. They'd sell hi-fi records, tape recorders, FM tuners, record turntables, loudspeakers, large hi-fi combinations, all the way down to recording-head demagnetizers, record cleaning kits, record pickups and needles, etc. One, or maybe two, sold wire and cable lines to manufacturers. Our office, at the request of the client company we sold for, maintained a local stock of wire and cable products at a Minneapolis warehouse. That stock didn't belong to us but to our client; we merely contracted in the name of our client for the warehouse to store the stuff and ship it to the customer on our order, and the customer would directly pay our client, who also paid the warehouse for their service. Now, I'm finally getting to my little (really not so little, I guess) story. I answered the phone in the office one day in 1958, and found it was the owner of a small hi-fi store in South Dakota, who said he wanted to buy a certain tape-recorder based hi-fi console from one of our clients, a top-name maker of tape recorders. Eureka! I knew this was great news, because the price we and our client (I'll call it Acme Hi-Fi Recorders) would charge that hi-fi store was something like $5,000 to $7,000, and of course the price would be substantially marked up from that price to the user/customer. Remember, I said this was 1958; $5,000 was a lot of money. Luckily, Jim, the Retail sales rep who serviced South Dakota and that store, was in the office rather than on the road that day, so I excitedly passed the phone call to him, expecting to hear great jubilation and effusive thanks to the caller from Jim, at his desk next to mine. I wasn't particularly intending to listen to Jim's end of the conversation, but my attention was demanded when I heard Jim loudly say, "Why, you damn fool, Charlie! I won't sell that to you!" Well, I was aghast, frankly. Presumably the caller asked why. "You're there in (whereversville) South Dakota, and there aren't two potential buyers of that unit within a hundred miles of you in any direction! We've talked about your cash flow situation, and you and I both know that lovely Acme console would sit on your show-floor for years without selling, taking up space, tying up your capital. I'd be inviting you into bankruptcy by selling that unit to you." (pause) "Now, if you want some eye-catching quality merchandise that will MOVE, we could sell you" A, B, C, or D, "but I'd be your worst enemy to sell you that Acme console, Charlie!" And Jim ended up selling Charlie about $3,000 worth of A, B, C, or D. Yes, that was a step down from $5,000 to $7,000, and taking a sale out of the mouth of our client Acme and giving it to a different client (call them ABCD Co.), which might sound unethical, but read on. Several things were accomplished in that surprising conversation: 1. Acme, though they didn't get a proposed smashing sale, also didn't end up potentially losing a customer and losing that fancy price when Charlie went bankrupt. Not to mention that their premium product sitting unsold on Charlie's floor would be bad for Acme's reputation. 2 The ABCD manufacturer had gained a sale which Charlie would probably be able to pay for and grow his business. 3. Charlie was saved from making a costly mistake which would make him trouble and might possibly ruin his business. 4. Jim made himself a hero to Charlie by showing both his understanding of Charlie's business and his concern for Charlie's welfare. 5. Jim gained, admittedly, a smaller commission on the ABCD transaction than the fat Acme sale would produce on its face, but the ABCD was a commission that would probably actually come through, whereas the Acme console (if Jim was correct) might never be paid for, so our rep office would lose and get charged back that fat commission. And it's likely Acme would cancel our representative contract because of the loss and the black eye. Now, that was when I learned about GOOD salesmanship. Jim (and our office) was not Charlie's adversary. Jim was Charlie's friendly colleague in the profitable marketing of quality hi-fi merchandise. Acme won by avoiding an unsupportable sale; Charlie won by buying merchandise he could profit from; ABCD won by gaining a supportable and profitable sale; Jim won by helping the finances of his customer, and gaining Charlie's respect and trust for future dealings; Jim also won by securing a commission that wouldn't go south on him; and the office and all of the Retail reps therein gained by not potentially having the Acme representation contract canceled. WIN WIN WIN WIN WIN! I represent to you, kiddies, that's salesmanship! Dave Oesterreich |
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03 Sep 10 - 04:43 PM (#2979491) Subject: RE: BS: What is the definition of a salesperson? From: Slag Excellent Dave O and Sinsull! That is what good salesmanship is all about! Honesty and meeting the real needs and desires that are out there. To exist, a person only NEEDS air, water, food, clothing and shelter and there are industries that directly supply those basic needs. Not a lot of hard selling going on there. But to LIVE we need or at least WANT considerably more and that creates the wonderful game. A very interesting thread to me. Here's to all you Willies Lomaxes! Don't let it get you down! And! Do you remember the Twilight Zone episode where Ed Wynn ( I believe) played the friendly Pitchman who stalls for time with Mr. Death who has come for a neighbohood child? One of the best. |
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03 Sep 10 - 08:01 PM (#2979592) Subject: RE: BS: What is the definition of a salesperson? From: Little Hawk A snake in a business suit? A virulent disease organism masquerading as a human being? There are, of course, the truly good and responsible salesmen like Dave was telling about above...those who understand and appreciate everyone's real needs, not just their own. Boy, I wish there were more of those guys around! I've seen a few of them. |
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03 Sep 10 - 08:16 PM (#2979596) Subject: RE: BS: What is the definition of a salesperson? From: Slag Yup, LH, it's the users and abusers, the "me-firsters" and the "me-onlys" that taint the waters and cause people to put up the "You're NOT Welcome" signs. Sad, they aren't just on the hoof either. They sell used cars and new appliances, aluminum siding and everything else. It's hard to know what you are getting until after the fact. Sometimes you are surprised (in the good sense) but that isn't often enough. |
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03 Sep 10 - 08:16 PM (#2979597) Subject: RE: BS: What is the definition of a salesperson? From: McGrath of Harlow If anyone ever tries to sell me anything I'm not interested. Not at the door, not on the phone, not in a shop. |