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31 Jan 11 - 05:28 PM (#3086162) Subject: BS: Chrysler block heater From: gnu On every weehicle I have owned, when I plug in the block heater when it's minus freezemeassoff makes noise that I can hear when I listen closely. Not on Mum's new 300. I thought I might have heard a faint "ping" or two, but no real indication the block heater is working. I was just out freezing my fingers while testing the continuity (ok) and the supply (ok). Is this typical of Chryslers? BTW... the last one she had was a Cirrus and it had a block heater and battery warmer... that had to be replaced/rewired three times in 8 years with less than 30k on it. Spaw! Get yer ass back here if someone else can't comment. |
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31 Jan 11 - 05:29 PM (#3086163) Subject: RE: BS: Chrysler block heater From: gnu Oh... I joined the 300C owners website just now but my membership is pending so I cant post there yet. And I did search the web for info. |
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31 Jan 11 - 05:53 PM (#3086184) Subject: RE: BS: Chrysler block heater From: Q (Frank Staplin) Can't hear it on my Jeep SUV. I bought one of those cords with the little light. There is a 'ping or two' but easily missed. I don't think it is just Chrysler products; a BMW I had was also almost silent. |
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31 Jan 11 - 07:15 PM (#3086238) Subject: RE: BS: Chrysler block heater From: The Fooles Troupe The ping is probably the sound of the mechanical thermostat, if they have now made them all solid state, then there can be no noise. |
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31 Jan 11 - 08:41 PM (#3086297) Subject: RE: BS: Chrysler block heater From: mousethief Although expanding metal sometimes does make noises. Ask anyone who lives in an old apartment building with steam heat. |
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31 Jan 11 - 08:45 PM (#3086299) Subject: RE: BS: Chrysler block heater From: gnu But, the "ping" should be followed with a "puck" immediately followed by a "chchchchc"... no? |
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31 Jan 11 - 10:31 PM (#3086349) Subject: RE: BS: Chrysler block heater From: EBarnacle If you want to make sure that it works, wire a small light bulb into the circuit. When the circuit is working, the bulb will be lit. If you wire it in in parallel to the main wire, it will not act as a resister, which would limit the amount of power getting to the heater. |
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01 Feb 11 - 12:14 PM (#3086670) Subject: RE: BS: Chrysler block heater From: GUEST,999 Gnu,have you called a mechanic at the dealership--or even Chrysler itself. |
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01 Feb 11 - 12:54 PM (#3086685) Subject: RE: BS: Chrysler block heater From: Little Hawk If it goes "g'zaaaaa....cl'l'l'....CHONK!!!....GEEE-zaaaaahhhhhhh..." ...you've got trouble. ;-) |
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01 Feb 11 - 01:03 PM (#3086694) Subject: RE: BS: Chrysler block heater From: frogprince Wondering if Foolestroupe is sitting there, smirking, waiting for someone to react to the concept of a solid state/non-mechanical auto theromostat. I'm not even sure that a purely non-mechanical 'stat to control the electricity to a furnace is possible; I suspect that an expandable metal component, generally a bi-metal "spring", is still necessary. But you will have to show me something that opens and closes the flow of coolant in a car, consisting only of a solid-state electronic device. : ) |
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01 Feb 11 - 01:05 PM (#3086697) Subject: RE: BS: Chrysler block heater From: frogprince |
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01 Feb 11 - 01:09 PM (#3086699) Subject: RE: BS: Chrysler block heater From: Jack the Sailor WBM Wired By Monkeys. That's what I think when I hear the brand name "Chrysler." I've had a couple, including our current Ram 1500 van, and know lots of people who have had them. Almost all, including ours, have had electrical problems. |
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01 Feb 11 - 02:32 PM (#3086744) Subject: RE: BS: Chrysler block heater From: gnu JtS... Chryslers had electical problems all the years of my youth when my buddies owned clunkers. Esp'y ignition probs. 999... no. I fear I will get a runaround as usual. I may have to if I can't find a suiatble answer elsewhere. Again, (and, as I said, I tested the circuit and it closes) my point is this... WHY can't I hear the element heat the coolant? Surely I should be able to hear it??? |
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01 Feb 11 - 04:02 PM (#3086794) Subject: RE: BS: Chrysler block heater From: GUEST,999 I had an old Dodge Dart. When I plugged it in--after the motor was cold--I could hear a few strains and grunts as it heated the oil and subsequently the metal expanded a bit. After that, I could hear zip, as in nada, nothing. |
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01 Feb 11 - 04:03 PM (#3086797) Subject: RE: BS: Chrysler block heater From: Jack the Sailor I had a block heater in my Chevy may years ago in Ottawa and in my Mercury Cougar and neither made a detectable sound. They would only heat it up to about zero Celsius but that made a big difference when it is minus 20 or more. |
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01 Feb 11 - 04:35 PM (#3086808) Subject: RE: BS: Chrysler block heater From: Little Hawk I should think the best test is...just try it and see if it works? Pick a really cold day. |
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01 Feb 11 - 04:36 PM (#3086809) Subject: RE: BS: Chrysler block heater From: The Fooles Troupe Oh Prince in Disguise, I was referring to the thingy that switches the current on and off in the block heater, not something controlling flow of a fluid. Good one though ... |
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01 Feb 11 - 06:00 PM (#3086839) Subject: RE: BS: Chrysler block heater From: Ed T I am curious. Why do you need a block heater? To get warm heat air sooner? To reduce wear on your vehicle, to make it last longer? Not to hear the valve taps for a few seconds (try synthetic oils, it helps). IMO, Unlike cars of yester year, todays low compression, fuel injected cars start in almost any weather (down to short stints of -40C), even if you are a bit shoddy in the maintainance. That is if you have a decent battery and electric charging system. |
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01 Feb 11 - 06:05 PM (#3086842) Subject: RE: BS: Chrysler block heater From: The Fooles Troupe That level of cold can destroy a lead acid battery. |
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01 Feb 11 - 06:16 PM (#3086850) Subject: RE: BS: Chrysler block heater From: Q (Frank Staplin) A warmer environment for fuel injection means better fuel economy. Of course, during warmer spells interspersed in the Canadian winter, there is no need to plug in the block heater. Block heaters are a must for diesel engines; diesel fuels must warmed to combust in Canadian prairie winters. |
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01 Feb 11 - 06:29 PM (#3086860) Subject: RE: BS: Chrysler block heater From: Jack the Sailor From: Foolestroupe - PM Date: 01 Feb 11 - 06:05 PM That level of cold can destroy a lead acid battery. --- You have had a lot of experience with this in Australia? :-) At loaw temperature -15 C or more (0 F) the car starts a lot easier, that is the starter has to do less work if the oil is a bit warmer than that temperature. I've never has a battery destroyed by cold weather, but they do not crank as long or as powerfully when it is cold. Unless, the cars and batteries have got a lot better in 12 years,in Ottawa, Canada, this time of year, where it goes to -20 or colder, for weeks at a time, fuel injected or not, if your car is outdoors and not plugged in, some mornings, you are not going anywhere in it without a boost. |
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01 Feb 11 - 06:35 PM (#3086865) Subject: RE: BS: Chrysler block heater From: Ed T "That level of cold can destroy a lead acid battery". In cold winter with heaters, lights and wipers on, if you travel mostly short trips, you are drawing more out of a battery than you are putting back. Batteries have lsee available power when the temperature goes down. If your battery is low, it can freeze up. That I uderstand. But, how does a block heater help with any of those (for todays gasoline cars)? Maybe a battery warmer would help? But, either only help when you start your car at your house. As to fuel economy, a car warms up fairly fast, so the fuel saving from a block heater is marginal.You are using some electricity, I suspect. So, what's the benefit of pluging a gasoline car, (not diesel) in at home in the winter? Could it be a Crysler thing? |
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01 Feb 11 - 06:44 PM (#3086868) Subject: RE: BS: Chrysler block heater From: Jack the Sailor I was told, and I have read that the oil in the pan is more thick and viscous and that makes the car harder to start and less likely to egt proper lubrication until the oil in the engine is warm enough.. I don't know if synthetic oil would prevent that problem. |
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01 Feb 11 - 06:46 PM (#3086869) Subject: RE: BS: Chrysler block heater From: The Fooles Troupe Plates can buckle and short, the max ability to produce current drops off as temp lowers, etc. Unless you have a battery designed for the extreme conditions (read more expensive), the conditions and use in such can reduce the life. Of course that was some decades ago (70s) when I was researching with a mate when we were looking at an electric car project, battery technology will have improved meantime, I expect. And of course as you say, JTS, if anyone has ever noticed, starting a car that has just switched off a few minutes ago is much easier than one that has dropped to even 10 deg C (not unusual here in Qld during winter) overnight and can be quite a strain. Also, unless you keep your charge level high (many car batteries are often not 'fully charged'), you have less margin too. My little 900 cc beastie if not started for a few days in winter in Brisbane can be quite an effort, especially if the battery is near 3 years old. We do get snow here in Aus further south than tropical Qld too (so that was part of the project research) ... :-) |
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01 Feb 11 - 06:47 PM (#3086870) Subject: RE: BS: Chrysler block heater From: Jack the Sailor As I said before, with 4 different cars, 2 fuel injected, over 8 winters in Ottawa, for some mornings, with no battery warmer if my car wasn't plugged in, my car did not start. |
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01 Feb 11 - 07:59 PM (#3086905) Subject: RE: BS: Chrysler block heater From: Q (Frank Staplin) Jack is correct. Between my daughter and myself, we have 3 fuel injected vehicles. At 30 below F (it was that here two nights ago) they won't start unless plugged in to heat the oil and whatever else cringes in the cold. Some people here additionally use a battery warmer. I have a heated garage, so don't worry about the car at home, but in town, I plug in at the parking lot or parking garage. Some parking garages are heated, but those that are not provide plug-ins. |
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01 Feb 11 - 08:36 PM (#3086919) Subject: RE: BS: Chrysler block heater From: GUEST Our familay has three vehicles. The coldest it ever gets is about -16C for a night or two in winter at a time. All our cars (three different 4 Cyl Japanese models) start on the first try each time regardless of the low. We never had any issue in winter, without any plug in. But, we keep our cars, electrical and batteries well maintained, and checked before winter. (BTW, there is a shelf life on a car battery). If you have extreme cold for prolonged periods (I understand that -30 C or -40C are common in some areas like Ottawa and Alberta) have short rides or your battery or electrical is compromised (someone indicated Chrysler's often are)I can see a benefit in keeping engines warm. Moncton, like most of east coast Canada may have a low wind chill, but I suspect rarely, if ever, reaches those low temperature extremes).
-Joe Offer- |
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01 Feb 11 - 10:22 PM (#3086946) Subject: RE: BS: Chrysler block heater From: Q (Frank Staplin) The less powerful batteries provided with new cars are replaced with good batteries here. Some dealers have already replaced the 'factory-issue' units so that the customer doesn't have to worry about it, or, worse yet, get caught out with an inadequate one. Similarily, factory-provided tires are traded in by the careful driver here. Chrysler/Dodge vans are popular here with people who have to transport kids to hockey, skiing, etc. Provided they have good block heaters and heavy duty batteries, they don't seem to have any more trouble than anyone else. |
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02 Feb 11 - 07:27 AM (#3087125) Subject: RE: BS: Chrysler block heater From: gnu Ed T... cold starts can be nasty on rings and cylinders. I wrote a long post and it stuck to the satellite... maybe I'll try again later. |
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02 Feb 11 - 07:52 AM (#3087136) Subject: RE: BS: Chrysler block heater From: Jack the Sailor Foolestroupe, You may have a point about cold weather and the life of the batteries. In Canada I had to replace batteries more often than I do down here in the southern US. We've had the Dodge van almost 9 years and it is on its second. On the other hand, it could be improvements in technology. |
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02 Feb 11 - 10:07 PM (#3087654) Subject: RE: BS: Chrysler block heater From: Q (Frank Staplin) A big difference between a top of the line battery and the cheapie. We lived in the south before coming to Canada. Never worried overmuch about batteries and had never heard of plugging in, but we soon learned car maintenance and equipment in western Canada was "something else." |
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03 Feb 11 - 12:36 AM (#3087703) Subject: RE: BS: Chrysler block heater From: Jack the Sailor I used to buy better batteries in Canada. |
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03 Feb 11 - 02:35 AM (#3087723) Subject: RE: BS: Chrysler block heater From: Joe Offer Block heater? I haven't heard of those since I left Wisconsin in 1970. I don't think they sell them here in California.... |
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03 Feb 11 - 04:57 AM (#3087763) Subject: RE: BS: Chrysler block heater From: GUEST,Jon I'd never heard of them at all, Joe. --- Re cold and batteries, following Foolestroupe's comments, I tried to do a little searching on lead acid batteries and temperature. While I guess there must be a low limit (when the electrolyte freezes???), it seems that in contrast to the battery capacity decreasing as temperature gets lower, battery life actually increases! I guess the shorter life if harsh conditions is simply due to the batteries getting flattened too much (and lead acids, particularly "engine" starter types hate that - deep cycle ones take a lot more discharging) because of reduced capacity? |
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03 Feb 11 - 07:35 AM (#3087815) Subject: RE: BS: Chrysler block heater From: Jack the Sailor In my experience, below certain temperatures the lead acid batteries do not have as much power but early in the morning on a cold day they seem to crank less and slower and you can drain them in a couple of attempts to start. But later in the day, one the sun has shone on the hood for a while the car will start easily. |
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03 Feb 11 - 05:30 PM (#3088156) Subject: RE: BS: Chrysler block heater From: gnu Fine if you live where the sun shines before 9AM. Round here, as you know JtS, you ain't gonna get any sunshine to speak of before that and only if you can park where it shines on the radiator. |
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03 Feb 11 - 07:12 PM (#3088226) Subject: RE: BS: Chrysler block heater From: GUEST,DonMeixner A cold battery has less cranking power than does a warm battery as Jack says. A cold engine, especially a V-8, has more mass to move to start and with 30 weight oil thickened by the extreme cold, will require more of that cranking power to start up. Cold batteries will go dead quicker in the extreme cold especially with a big engine. That's why a block heater is a good thing when it is extremely cold. It keeps the 30 weight thin enough to allow the engine to turn over. Multi grade oil is a big help. 5w-30w remains fairly thin at -10F and the engine can crank. I had a block heater in a 63 Ford Galaxy I drove in the late 60's. It was electric and it pumped hot water through the block and it did a great job. It also cost about a buck a night which in 1968 was pretty pricey. I expect they have gotten more efficient over the years. Now if it really cold I throw a tarp over the minivan and put a 100 watt light bulb in the engine compartment. The van always starts. I may be deluding myself that I am doing any good and the van would always start anyway. If you live in a very cold winter climate, a good battry can't be beat and it is worth the extra money for the insurance. Don |
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03 Feb 11 - 07:24 PM (#3088234) Subject: RE: BS: Chrysler block heater From: open mike would an electric blanket under the hood help? i do not see many vehicles here, but up north and in Alaska, often you see wires and plugs protruding from under the hood...for heaters. I remember back in Nebraska we had a dip stick warmer device that would lower into the " " slot. here in california, we have fire engines wired for heaters for those times when we need to have a quick start with no time for warming up the engine on a fire or rescue call. |
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03 Feb 11 - 11:28 PM (#3088331) Subject: RE: BS: Chrysler block heater From: GUEST,DonMeixner I don't think a regular electric blanket would work. I don't think it generates enough heat directly to the engine. Those dipstick heaters would keep the oil in the oil pan loose enough to flow easily but the mass of iron in the engine will stay cold. And it will keep the oil loose in the oil ports cold and congealed as well. I had a friend in Alaska, Barrow or Fairbanks I think, who said they outlets in some of the parking meter like devices to plug a block heater in. I think you'd need more direct heat. During the Korean war some trucks were kept warm with coal fires between garbage can lids slid under the engines. I can't verify that but i heard it from a vet. Don |
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04 Feb 11 - 03:20 AM (#3088385) Subject: RE: BS: Chrysler block heater From: John J I drive a Ford Fiesta 1.4l diesel, a much smaller vehicle than most of our American and Canadian cousins drive. In the recent cold spells here in UK (down to -15 / -20degC)I left the battery on trickle charge when parked up at home - around 1 to 1.5 Amps. Whilst my neighbours would struggle (and often not succeed in starting their engines) mine always started first time. Apart from keeping the battery topped up I imagine there would be a very small amount of heat generated in the battery helping to keep it from chilling too much. My own rule of thumb is that once a lead-acid battery is more than 2-3 years old it's on borrowed time. There's MUCH more to it of course, but imagine the corrosive effect of immersing lumps of metal into a bath of acid...you've got yourself the beginnings of a battery! Very interesting to read about the various heaters you use over there. If our cold winters are to continue we're going to have to go down the same route as you. Thanks for the really interesting discussion. JJ |
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04 Feb 11 - 05:33 AM (#3088442) Subject: RE: BS: Chrysler block heater From: The Fooles Troupe Charging a lead acid battery does produce heat. Over charging also produces hydrogen. |
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04 Feb 11 - 10:30 AM (#3088568) Subject: RE: BS: Chrysler block heater From: GUEST,999 As Foolestroupe said, thus the warning not to light things near the battery or it may go boom. |
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04 Feb 11 - 04:36 PM (#3088811) Subject: RE: BS: Chrysler block heater From: Q (Frank Staplin) "Blankets" to warm the battery are small, plastic-encased; made for the purpose. It's 2 PM here, the sun is gradually returning from its long journey south, but shadows are long. Perhaps the southside of buildings are warmed a little. In late December- January, the sun crawls by near the S horizon; its only purpose is to blind anyone driving in that direction. |