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28 Apr 11 - 06:13 AM (#3143905) Subject: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: maeve We've been watching news reports regarding the severe tornado hits in Alabama and beyond. President Obama has declared a State of Emergency for Alabama. ABC News That link contains information regarding the projected path of the system. Several Mudcatters are in the general path of the storm system. Please take good care, friends. |
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28 Apr 11 - 06:23 AM (#3143908) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: maeve Some photos, here: http://www.latimes.com/na-tornado-gallery,0,6068109.photogallery |
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28 Apr 11 - 07:27 AM (#3143942) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: The Fooles Troupe No such things as 'Global Warming', I'm informed... |
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28 Apr 11 - 07:36 AM (#3143945) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: maeve Global warming or not, my concern is for those folks that are in the path of this severe weather system. More than 80 people are reported to have died just in Alabama. Storm patterns like this one occur whenever conditions are right. Both the size of the individual storms and length of time in contact with the ground are factors that made this system deadly. |
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28 Apr 11 - 09:13 AM (#3143993) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: Greg F. Yeah, thank god there's no link between carbon emissions, greenhouse gasses, global climate change and all this increasingly violent weather. Hope all the folks in the paths of these storms will remember to keep voting the Republican ticket. |
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28 Apr 11 - 09:54 AM (#3144011) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: maeve Greg, I have no argument with those who perceive links between the factors you mention and severe weather patterns. There are other threads for the discussions to which you refer, or you are free to start a thread for further discussion. The intent of this thread is to be aware of the people affected by this set of tornadoes; particularly Mudcat friends who may be in or near the affected areas. |
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28 Apr 11 - 09:57 AM (#3144015) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: GUEST,hg tornado warnings here in north florida seem to have abated. rain is winding down. my worry is hurricane season, yet again. we've been spared the last few years. I've got my roof money set aside... |
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28 Apr 11 - 09:58 AM (#3144017) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: Barbara Shaw We're in a motorhome in Lexington, SC and had a sleepless night as this storm went through here, and we're still under a tornado watch. It's so scary to be 900 miles from home (CT) in a camper in a bad storm. We were also worried about friends in N. Wilkesboro, NC who are already at Merlefest (our destination) who got the advancing storm first. To make things worse, there's a train line right near the campground, and every time a train went through it blew it's whistle, making me think it was a tornado siren. And planes overhead sounding like the rumble of a tornado. The storm is apparently advancing right across to the east coast, so we'll probably get back to New England just in time for round two. I'm so sad for the families who weren't as lucky as us in this horrendous storm. |
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28 Apr 11 - 09:59 AM (#3144018) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: maeve It's good to hear from you, hg. Good luck with hurricane season! |
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28 Apr 11 - 10:02 AM (#3144020) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: maeve I'm glad you're safe, Barbara. I've been living in a camper; I know how insecure I felt during strong storms this winter and spring. May the rest of your trip be less stressful! |
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28 Apr 11 - 10:05 AM (#3144024) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Being as there is so much help. that these people NEED, do you think the Government could take some of the money that was set aside to fund Obamacare, and help these people? And to Fooles Troupe, and Greg F, politicizing this emergency, is not only inappropriate, its just down right asinine! Maybe 'Global Warming' has affected your brains! GfS |
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28 Apr 11 - 10:24 AM (#3144039) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: GUEST,leeneia Here's a link to an article with further information. http://www.kansas.com/2011/04/18/1812482/241-tornadoes-reported-over-14.html Please be aware that '241 tornado reports' does not equate to '241 tornadoes' because more than one person can report the same tornado. ========= Like Maeve and Sanity, I feel little in common with those here who learn of disaster and only spout canned media wisdom in response. I agree that global warming is real, but terror and suffering ought to provoke SOME kind of empathy. |
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28 Apr 11 - 10:29 AM (#3144040) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: maeve Thanks, leeneia. Here's your link as a blue clicky: http://www.kansas.com/2011/04/18/1812482/241-tornadoes-reported-over-14.html |
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28 Apr 11 - 11:05 AM (#3144061) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: Bill D Here, just north of DC, we have watched small, intense cells of weather move past & over us. There was a tornado on the ground at Andrews Air Force base last night. (I am listening to thunder as I type, but the worst 'seems' to be past.) Areas near the Chesapeake Bay got it worse, and the are trees and lines down in several place, but no widespread damage or injuries... |
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28 Apr 11 - 11:10 AM (#3144067) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: Greg F. And to Fooles Troupe, and Greg F, politicizing this emergency, is not only inappropriate. Of course I empathize with anyone caught in the paths of these horrors, but Politicising? Surely you realize that this "emergency" is a man-made event? Chickens coming home to roost, as it were. I also feel sorry these days for anyone voting Republican. |
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28 Apr 11 - 11:11 AM (#3144068) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: maeve Thanks for the update, Bill. |
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28 Apr 11 - 11:23 AM (#3144073) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: Barbara Shaw We're still under a tornado watch in Lexington County, SC. Sun comes out and looks like the storm is over and then another wave rolls in and we get a downpour and heavy winds. So far we still have neighbors at the campground, which is comforting! I hate to add to the "blowhards" but I firmly believe the increasingly turbulent weather is a result of global warming and the things we've done to the planet. |
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28 Apr 11 - 11:47 AM (#3144089) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: lefthanded guitar On NPR they cited that meteroligists were saying they NEVER saw a weather pattern like this in all their lives. I believe it's global warming too. There's just been SO many disasters this year; can't all be coincidence. |
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28 Apr 11 - 11:48 AM (#3144091) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: catspaw49 Extreme winds here all night but spared the punishment that the south got. Spaw |
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28 Apr 11 - 11:52 AM (#3144094) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: maeve That's fine; global warming may well be involved, Barbara. No arguments here, folks. I was kind of hoping to keep the thread to the plight of the endangered people, that's all. Who else in Mudcatville may be affected? We don't need to make a list; just maybe each of us could check in on those for whom we have concerns. Those in the tornado track might check in here so we know you're ok, as have hg, Barbara Shaw, and Bill D. I know that olddude is fine; the storms missed his town. Thanks. |
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28 Apr 11 - 11:53 AM (#3144095) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: maeve Thanks, Spaw. I'm glad you're ok. |
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28 Apr 11 - 11:57 AM (#3144101) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: Barbara Shaw Seeing Spaw's post has reminded me that I need to revive my sense of humor. I'm from southern Ct, the "land of steady habits" where we get the 4 seasons every year, complain about too much snow or too little rain or too much August humidity or a hurricane every 5 years or so, but not the extremes the rest of the country seems to deal with. Nor do we usually deal with earthquakes, tsunamis, mudslides, wildfires, dust storms, and most specifically at the moment, tornadoes. The term "tornado" strikes terror in my heart, and hunkering down in a 30 foot metal box (camper) 900 miles away from home with a raging thunderstorm and tornado watch going on is not my idea of a good time, nor do I intend to make a steady habit of it! Do I sound homesick? Yes, but first Merlefest! |
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28 Apr 11 - 12:02 PM (#3144103) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: maeve It's a frightening experience to be sure, Barbara. Several times this last year I was certain our camper was going to be blown into the burned out foundation. Watching one's house burn down is terrifying, and as you said, liable to reduce the usual steady supply of humor and equilibrium. Have a great time at Merlefest, then head safely on home to Connecticut! |
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28 Apr 11 - 01:00 PM (#3144131) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Lefty: "On NPR they cited that meteroligists were saying they NEVER saw a weather pattern like this in all their lives." Get another 'news' source!!!! "Hey, bar-keep...make mine a double!" ...but that was before they invented that SUV's were making 'Global Farting'! GfS |
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28 Apr 11 - 01:08 PM (#3144138) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: Mrrzy Driving back from Richmond (VA) last night towards Charlottesville, I was treated to an amazing light show that turned out to be thunderstorms killling about 8 people... wow. It was amazing and I was looking for a north-side-of-a-hill which is apparently the best place to be if you are in the Northern Hemisphere as the tornadoes spin roughly northwards, and when they go over a hill they kind of lose their bottom for a bit. This from an ex-friend who grew up in Oklahoma watching tornadoes miss his house, which was so situated. Central VA got whacked last night but Charlottesville was spared, again. |
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28 Apr 11 - 01:11 PM (#3144142) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: GUEST,mg A headline just said 248 dead. I hope we get in the habit of building weatherproof houses soon. And require all mobile home parks and campgrounds to have sturdy concrete shelters. mg |
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28 Apr 11 - 01:53 PM (#3144174) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: JohnInKansas A reasonably "factual" summary of the latest storms is at MSNBC: Storms ... The video at the top of the page is a fairly typical "TV News" thing, but the text article gives a fairly reasoned report of the damage. The more interesting part for some may be the 41-image "photoblog" at the bottom of the article. Conventional wisdom says that the annual "tornado season" doesn't start in Kansas until May, although commemorative events were held locally a couple of days ago for the "20th anniversy" of the 1991 F5 that went through Augusta then. (It was barely at F4 when it passed through here on its way there - approx 30 miles downwind.) John |
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28 Apr 11 - 04:45 PM (#3144310) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: Bill D "Get another 'news' source!!!!" Well, GfS...you know 1974 wasn't exactly yesterday.Some of the forecasters were still in grade school then. And many of these locations ARE seeing very unusual patterns and intensity. My favorite local weatherman, Bob Ryan, says 'we' have not seen any bunch of serious tornadoes for many, many years. 'Global warming' is not really the correct term right now, but there IS "Global climate change" that is causing patterns to alter...and in many cases, to mean more intense weather....and 'warming' is part OF that....ask the Inuit, who can't find solid ice to do certain types of fishing. Changes in ocean currents and various human activities are also involved... it is just hard to say 'exactly' how much. |
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28 Apr 11 - 05:00 PM (#3144321) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Bill D: "...'Global warming' is not really the correct term right now, but there IS "Global climate change" that is causing patterns to alter..." A fart by any other name, still stinks! 'Global Warming' is from cyclical sunspot activity, which has nothing to do with the SUV induced fad that was so 'popular' with pseudo environmentalists!....anymore than the caldera in Yellowstone, or the ocean bottom warming up 1500 miles west of South America!..or earthquakes in Japan, and various other spots in the 'Ring of Fire'. When Greenland was named, it was because at one time, it was a lot greener, due to the climate back then.....WHICH was BEFORE the internal combustion engine!..or even industrialized factories!! Fair enough?....(Why not?...Those are FACTS!!) GfS |
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28 Apr 11 - 05:25 PM (#3144336) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: saulgoldie It *may* be global *climate change.* It does not matter to me, and I do not care if the victims accept the possibility. I do not care who they voted for, or whether they *accept* the reality that Obama is American, born and bred. None of that matters. My heart goes out to the *people* who are suffering because of this horrible turn in fortune. I wish them well, and I hope that the gummint will do whatever it takes to attempt to repair their shattered lives inasmuch as that is even possible. G-d bless the dead, and RIP. Saul |
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28 Apr 11 - 05:41 PM (#3144347) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: Greg F. My heart goes out to the people who are suffering because they voted to help create the horrible turn in fortune they are now experiencing. I hope that the gummint will do whatever it takes to attempt to repair their shattered lives No, No NO!. Gummint is the PROBLEM, not the solution. You don't want to snare these people into the Cycle Of Dependency or they'll be looking for gumming handouts forever.. They'll just have to pull themselves up by their own Republican bootstraps. |
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28 Apr 11 - 08:11 PM (#3144443) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: Bill D "'Global Warming' is from cyclical sunspot activity...." Oh....pooh! Who told you that? I see that silly theory every now & then, but there are legions of experts who do NOT subscribe to such a simplistic answer. Sure, Greenland has been warmer in the past...and there have been glaciers in Ohio in the past. Climate DOES fluctuate over thousands of years, and 'some' of the causes are known....but NEVER before has the earth had to deal with humans burning fossil fuel and other activities. Many of past warmings were associated with heightened CO2 emissions from natural sources...but calculations DO indicate the WE are now a serious source. Now...you can accept that or deny it, but *I* think it is wise to treat it as if it is true, because cutting down on the stuff we do can only improve life. "Err on the side of caution" |
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28 Apr 11 - 09:16 PM (#3144462) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Bill D: "..Now...you can accept that or deny it, but *I* think it is wise to treat it as if it is true, because cutting down on the stuff we do can only improve life..." ..and 95% of forest fires are caused by trees!...Well, you might as well, ""Err on the side of caution" Another bottom of the barrel!! If you think that man is doing more than the sun, to raise the temperature of the earth, I know of this bridge in New York for sale..I'll send my 'broker' Ally Way Slim 'Fingers' Malone! GfS |
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28 Apr 11 - 09:44 PM (#3144476) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: The Fooles Troupe I am concerned for good friends who may in the path - take care. |
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28 Apr 11 - 10:28 PM (#3144487) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: Janie Appreciate your effort, maeve. The scenes of destruction are heart-breaking. It occurred to me this past weekend that I would probably be wiser to go outside and lay in the ditch during tornado warnings than to huddle in the narrow, central hallway of my very small house that is surrounded by 22 tall trees, some of them quite large in girth. If I could afford it, I do believe I would build a small storm cellar. |
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28 Apr 11 - 10:37 PM (#3144491) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: ChanteyLass This is indeed a terrible situation. I understand that tornado warnings extended as far north as New York. I have not heard of any harm to my family or friends and hope all Mudcatters can say the same. However, I feel badly for those whose family and friends have been affected. |
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28 Apr 11 - 10:47 PM (#3144493) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: Bill D "95% of forest fires are caused by trees!." False analogy.... "If you think that man is doing more than the sun, to raise the temperature of the earth,..." I'll let YOU look up which fallacy that is ..but it's not a matter of whether man is doing more...or less...than the sun, but whether man is doing too much. |
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28 Apr 11 - 10:54 PM (#3144494) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: Bill D I watched videos of damage in Alabama tonight... as much as I could take. It is beyond anything I have seen since Udall, Kansas was wiped out in 1956, near where I lived. No final count of casualties even in yet. |
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29 Apr 11 - 12:05 AM (#3144514) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity I guess you just didn't get it..but that's OK.... However, I made a 'boo-boo'....Not 'Sunspots', but, solar flare activity.....and if you want to believe that the Yellowstone caldera, and the ocean floor off South America heating up is because of man, hey, go right ahead...but I wouldn't tell anyone! They would probably be too polite to tell you what they really thought of you, to your face! As for me, I'll just tell you the truth, the best I can, and if it upsets your sense of 'politically correct' nonsense, I guess I'll just go away peacefully.....then laugh my head off! GfS |
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29 Apr 11 - 12:30 AM (#3144520) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: Janie *sigh* Is there any other weather event that strikes as randomly and with the quick, similar destruction as tornados? |
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29 Apr 11 - 01:41 AM (#3144532) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: Ebbie I talked with my North Carolina brother in law this morning. No tornado came close to their home, which is in Newton, close to Hickory. They don't have s storm cellar but they do have a fully equipped and supplied basement and he said that is where they would head if need be. His daughter is an RN and on her way to see a client ran into very heavy rain about 50 miles away. She said that when she drove out of the rain, it was like a band of weather that ended abruptly. |
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29 Apr 11 - 02:36 AM (#3144544) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Ebbie, I wish them the very best!!!..and hope they remain safe! GfS |
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29 Apr 11 - 03:07 AM (#3144556) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: Penny S. I saw some horrific images online, in a video, and at times really wondered about the cameraman's wisdom, as he headed towards the tornado - but that one was only a small one, and broke up as it crossed a road. The largest one he filmed looked terrifying. I understand that the loss of life is now confirmed at about 300, with more missing. This isn't the time to engage in pointless arguments about causes, but to pick up the pieces. And to ensure that trailer home parks in tornado areas have adequate shelters, and very good insurance. (I have wondered before why this style of living is found there...) Penny |
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29 Apr 11 - 07:03 AM (#3144620) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: gnu Tragic and horrific. |
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29 Apr 11 - 11:17 AM (#3144745) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: SINSULL Heard an interview with a man who survived with his wife and two boys. One boy was lifted up and flown away but found mom and dad by following a flashlight beam. He asked his parents if they would have to move and they said yes - at least for a while. Poor little one then asked if they could be sure to get a house with a cellar. Dad promised that they would never again live in a house without a cellar. |
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29 Apr 11 - 04:56 PM (#3144947) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: Penny S. How lucky that lad was. I read of cases where houses had been lifted up and dropped back on the sheltering occupants. Penny |
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29 Apr 11 - 09:31 PM (#3145057) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: Gorgeous Gary I have some friends in Athens and two colleagues in Tuscaloosa. The friends and one of the colleagues (and his family) are safe, though without power at the moment. Haven't heard one way or another about the other colleague, although he may well have been out of town. To reply to mg's and Penny's comments: It is almost impossible to make something "weatherproof", particularly when facing an EF4 or EF5 tornado. Basically the only thing that would survive a direct (or even glancing) blow from a tornado of that magnitude would be a solid concrete or solid grouted (and reinforced) masonry box. All sides, including the roof. And no windows, or thick multi-paned impact-resistant ones. Kind of expensive to build a whole building that way, and good luck getting any cell or wireless service inside. You can build resistant structures at the lower magnitudes (EF0 to EF2, even maybe EF3) where the wind speeds are consistent with a Category 4 or 5 hurricane. As for the popularity of manufactured (i.e. mobile) homes...well, the average cost of a house in the US is around $220,000 give or take. That's a $44,000 downpayment at 20% (traditional mortgage) or $11,000 at 5% (new FHA loan standards). The former is more than a lot of people make in a year. If those folks don't want to live in an apartment...well, a manufactured home is about all they can afford. -- Gary |
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30 Apr 11 - 12:47 AM (#3145101) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: ChanteyLass Here in RI, most homes have cellars. Even my condo has a full cellar. A friend tried in the late 70s to buy a home with a flat roof and built on a slab but no one here was willing to finance a mortgage. Reasons? No cellar (considered essential here during hurricanes when wind damage is significant, though tornadoes here have been rare) and the flat roof which could collapse under snow. However, I've had toured other parts of the US and asked guides if homes have cellars and been told no because they are built on top of rock. I feel bad for people who live in areas where tornados are unusual so their homes weren't built for the people to survive the recent ones in their locale. |
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30 Apr 11 - 07:49 AM (#3145220) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: McGrath of Harlow I think I'd want to live in a hobbithole if I lived in a place with that kind of climate. But the trouble is, the climate everywhere seems liable to be changing pretty drastically. |
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30 Apr 11 - 10:06 AM (#3145288) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: The Fooles Troupe Yes McGrath - you are sane. The Fuckwit GFS knows he is! Masturbating for Jesus again... |
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30 Apr 11 - 12:42 PM (#3145363) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: GUEST,Jayto We had a week of bad storms here in Kentucky. I am not far from the Tennessee border and they had some real bad ones as well. We luckily didn't have a tornado that caused massive damage even though we had a few. Our main problem was flooding. I have a bunch of family in Alabama and I am thankful none of them suffered any injury or damage. The weather this year has been horrible. Now they are expected flood levels on the Ohio, Mississippi, Cumberland, and Tennessee (the 4 major rivers around where I live) to reach flood levels at the highest since the 1920's. That is scary because the 1937 flood was the worst we have ever had around hear according to all the older people around here I have talked to. At least that was the one that hit my area the hardest. I hope all the people recover safe and sound. I have some really good pics of funnel clouds and flooding here. It was a rough week to put it mildly. |
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01 May 11 - 11:37 AM (#3145822) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: SINSULL Hundreds have lost their lives; hundreds are still missing; thousands are homeless. Could we just once concentrate on the situation? Could you, who have to prolong your petty quarrels, take it to another thread? Or even another website? The President has declared Alabama a Disaster Area and promised funding. The sooner the better. I hope FEMA is able to provide temporary housing trailors that don't make people ill. But I wonder how safe any of these people could feel in a trailor when Mother Nature took solid homes away in an instant. Frightening. I have seen nor'easters that seemed hell bent on carrying me and mine away. I have lived thru the eye of a major hurricane. I have even seen a tornado (more funnel cloud, I am told)touch down outside my window, bounce and destroy the street across from my home. I saw first hand the disaster in Miami just after the hurricane that took away Plantation, Florida. But I have never seen damage like that inflicted this week in Alabama and Mississippi. Lives turned upside down. It is hard to imagine lives and homes gone in an instant. |
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01 May 11 - 12:09 PM (#3145838) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Fool's Toupee: "...Masturbating for Jesus again..."??????? ....and then, YOU are one of the first to scream, "Bigot!"..when some person comments in a way that disagrees with your infantile, intolerant points of stupidity!!! I don't think I've ever said, on here that I 'believed' or 'disbelieved' in Jesus..other than I agreed with certain things He said. I guess you tend to make your religion from the wise sayings of Al Gore! GfS |
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01 May 11 - 04:22 PM (#3145976) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: GUEST,Jayto They are preparing to blow a levee on the Mississippi River right across from Wickliffe Kentucky. I am going to go down to Paducah KY in a little while and help sandbag. I read where Cairo Illinois (not far from here) has already had to evacuate over half of it's population of 2800 people. They are expecting evacuees to number in the 10's of thousands very soon. Shawneeville Illinois is experiencing breeches in their levee on the Mississippi river and are trying to contain it before it becomes a full flege structural failure. It started raining here again last night and hasn't let up. Things are getting really bad around here and not looking like it is going to let up. I went to Bowling Green KY last night to a ballet and on the way home it was a constant downpour. Water along the Green River in Muhlenberg county is out of the banks and in all the fields for miles around. As I said before the weather this year is BAD. |
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02 May 11 - 02:33 AM (#3146220) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: The Fooles Troupe "I guess you tend to make your religion from the wise sayings of Al Gore!" Sorry idiot - I'm not a Yank! :-) We've got our OWN idiots here ... |
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23 May 11 - 01:05 PM (#3159235) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: gnu Horrile twister... 89 dead in and near Joplin, Mo. |
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23 May 11 - 01:07 PM (#3159238) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: gnu http://ca.news.yahoo.com/missouri-officials-least-89-died-tornado-tore-city-105859036.html |
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23 May 11 - 04:56 PM (#3159355) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: Bill D Joplin was where my mother grew up and went to business college many years ago. I have been there, though not recently. Terrible tragedy, and I'm glad Mom didn't have to hear about it. From what I remember, having lived in Kansas, Oklahoma, Arkansas and Texas as a child, the severity and frequency of tornadoes has increased in recent years. Perhaps it's just that reporting is more immediate, but I think global weather patterns are more...umm... chaotic these days. |
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23 May 11 - 10:13 PM (#3159481) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: Bill D Weather reporters all day have been saying that there IS an unusually number of serious storms right now. Whether it represents a trend will require more study of data. |
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24 May 11 - 01:30 AM (#3159527) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: GUEST,leeneia Saturday night (day before yesterday) we heard the tornado sirens blowing, and our NOAA weather radio sounded the alarm. A tornado had been spotted (either didn't touch down or just came down in empty fields) about 30 miles away. We looked at the weather map online. There was a huge air mass containing storms, and the map showed an arc extending from Michigan to Wyoming. Inside it and to the south was a straighter line of storms. It was that line that produced the tornado in Joplin. The latest figure I've seen says that 30% of Joplin is destroyed. |
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24 May 11 - 01:45 AM (#3159528) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: GUEST,leeneia No, wait the tornado didn't come until later - forget what I said about the straight line of storms. I read in gnu's article that people in Joplin didn't hear the warning sirens because the storm was so loud. I strongly recommend buying that special NOAA radio. I'm glad I have one. |
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24 May 11 - 05:38 AM (#3159612) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: banjoman Pictures broadcast here (UK) were frightening. We have friends in Missouri (Troy & St Louis) and hope & pray for the well being of all those affected. Hopefully your government will be quick to act to help. good luck |
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27 May 11 - 07:40 PM (#3161535) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: JohnInKansas An incident a couple of days ago (Tuesday 24 May 2011) was captured on video, and although it's not as visible as it might be, it may give a good impression of what constitutes a tornado. This was a "little" (EF2?) twister according to reports, and the newscast omits the usual "blame the driver for 'attacking' the twister," but in order to stick with the usual reporting syle when a semi is involved, I'll call it: Semi Truck Attacks Tornado. Don't bother placing your bets before you watch the flick. John |
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28 May 11 - 01:28 AM (#3161619) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: Donuel 541 US tornados last year So far the number of tornados in the US for 2011 is 935 |
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28 May 11 - 02:48 AM (#3161636) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: Ebbie At Ask.com they have different figures from those... US total 2010 tornadoes Confirmed Total 1266 |
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28 May 11 - 12:08 PM (#3161764) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: GUEST,coyote breath guest Joplin's death toll up to 130 with as many still unaccounted for. Quite a few "first responder" units from here in East Central Missouri (St. Louis area) have been sent to Joplin. Not for rescue but recovery. Its been a violent spring and a much longer than typical winter. My understanding is climate change causes radical weather patterns. Climate changes occuring at the polar ice caps are indicated in part by rising temperatures. 20 below zero instead of 50. The "warmer" air has pushed the jet stream further South mixing it's colder air with the more humid air mass from the South and West (an el nino effect I think). We have a cooler than usual summer forecast and expect next winter to be colder and possibly with more precipitation (snow, sleet) than is typical. Joplin isn't going to be unique in the future. CB |
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28 May 11 - 01:31 PM (#3161796) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: GUEST,Shimrod In 1994 Texan Science Fiction writer, Bruce Sterling, published a novel called 'Heavy Weather'. It's set in the American mid-West in 2031. It's about a group of "Storm Troupers" (tornado chasers)in search of an F6 tornado. The cover blurb on my British paperback edition reads: "It's 2031, and no one doubts any longer that the atmosphere's been wrecked ..." It looks like the world of Sterling's novel has arrived 20 years early! |
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02 Jun 11 - 04:40 PM (#3164353) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: gnu Massachusetts got hammered? 4 dead? Gosh! We had some strong winds up here. Maeve reported baseball size hail in Maine. Largest twister I ever heard of here was about 35 years ago and it just tore up some woods about 35' wide... only reason I heard about it was my old man saw it while diggin worms up Kent County for fishing trout. |
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02 Jun 11 - 05:00 PM (#3164362) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: GUEST,leeneia I have an acquaintance who is a structural engineer. Last weekend he was called to Joplin to assess buildings. He said that though in most cases he had to condemn buildings, that everybody he encountered was polite and friendly to him. He also said that despite the ferocity of the tornado, it matters how well built a building is. I think America's homeowners need more detail on this kind of thing. There was a picture of Joplin in the paper a couple of days ago. As far as the eye could see, there were no buildings or trees, only wreckage and ruined trunks. But there were two exceptions: A very old-fashioned stone building stood intact. The roof was gone, but the walls were standing, and even the front door and window frames were in place. In the distance, a brick building looked good. My friend the engineer said that it is virtually impossible to knock down a stone building. |
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02 Jun 11 - 09:37 PM (#3164488) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: gnu Well, ya can build buildings that will withstand damn near everything that Mum Nature can throw at it, so far as we know, but it's all about the cost. Not every little pig can brick it. |
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02 Jun 11 - 10:47 PM (#3164515) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: GUEST,leeneia True, gnu. But there are other things. I remember reading about the tornado that struck Moore, Oklahoma. A professor from a school in Texas studied the ruin in one subdivision and determined that the nails holding the frame to the foundation had been driven in only 1/2 inch. There's no excuse for that kind of thing. (Don't get mad at me if they don't use nails for that. Whatever the fastenings were, they went in only 1/2 inch.) By the way, frame homes are better than brick in earthquake areas. Question. If I had a garage built of concrete block, would it be a safer place to be in a tornado than a wood-frame home? |
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02 Jun 11 - 11:35 PM (#3164527) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: ChanteyLass One problem is that earthquake areas are becoming tornado areas and vice versa! I live in a hurricane area (Rhode Island) which was under the recent New England tornado watch, and there have been occasional (so far mild) earthquakes which are centered elsewhere but felt here! I live in a small "working class" condo but sometimes wish I could live in a home with different sections prepared for different natural natural disasters. Then I shrug my shoulders and think, "What will be, will be." However, if I was affected by a natural disaster, I am sure I would be in shock, possibly have a nervous breakdown, and be bitter. |
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03 Jun 11 - 02:11 PM (#3164780) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: gnu leeneia... concrete block... only if the concrete block had some of the cores with rebar in them and were filled with concrete. And, of course, if you have a basement in the house, that's the best place to be. |
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03 Jun 11 - 03:47 PM (#3164831) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: Charley Noble Here in Maine we have two small twisters confirmed. We're just not used to thinking of ourselves as Midwesterners. Charley Noble |
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04 Jun 11 - 03:02 AM (#3165038) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: JohnInKansas The tornado season is really just beginning in Kansas, and "unusual" weather is predicted; but as yet we don't know much about what's going to happen. In my immediate area, we've had alternating above normal and below normal "swings" in temperature (100F - 38C) today was a new record high for the date, but we had low 60s for daily highs within the past week. It's been dryer here than usual, but we're fortunate to have had some recent rain. Western Kansas has seen damaging "severe winds" and areas nearby (70 miles) north of us have had similar winds (>70 mph - 110 kph) with hail, both areas sporadically for the last couple of weeks. Tornados, as we've noted, have already hit in several places where they're normally fairly rare. Texas, western Oklahoma, and western Kansas continue to be in an unusually long drought period that's becoming critical for food crops and livestock. Currently, Arizona and New Mexico are fighting wildfires of unusual size. Two currently burning wildfires have entered the records as the fourth and fifth largest in Arizona history. (There's a map of recent fires at the bottom of the article at the link.) Delay of the snow melt in the northwest US is the basis for predictions of substantial flooding "up there," and in downstream areas joining up to where the Mississippi flood is just beginning to recede. Since the media emphasises the "big stories" to the exclusion of more local stuff, there's probably a lot more "locally deviant" stuff going on that isn't reported widely. Seems like there ain't no "normal" anywhere these days. John |
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04 Jun 11 - 03:37 AM (#3165046) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: Penny S. With regard to earthquake resistant designs, I remember reading that the Peruvian style was stone with courses of timber. How would that do against tornadoes? Would cost a bit, I imagine. Penny |
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05 Jun 11 - 04:17 AM (#3165379) Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA From: JohnInKansas Requirements for earthquake resistance and for tornado resistance are a little bit different, although structures that resist one are often reasonably suited to resist the other. Earthquake resistance requires a structure that is strongly held together, but "loosely fastened down" so that it will "go with the flow" of the ground without being pulled apart (probably the Peruvian concept) or well jointed but "flexible" enough so that it doesn't break if one end of the foundation goes a different direction than the other end (a fairly common Japanese/Chinese concept). To resist a tornado, a structure has to resist being torn apart or lifted off the ground by the wind, but must also resist impact damage from all the CRAP that's flying around (often including cars and buses, or the neighbor's house etc). Common wood frame construction isn't very resistant even to fairly moderate winds, but can be made reasonably resistant to "average" hurricanes or tornados simply by adding "hurricane clips" - small metal reinforcements - everywhere that nails would normally be all that holds the structure together. A fairly frequently observed phenomenon with "clipped" construction finds the roof gone, and the walls still standing - but with all the vertical studs missing inside the outer walls because the tops of the studs were clipped to the rafters, but the bottoms of the studs weren't clipped down to the foundation. Sometimes structures (especially homes) are found with expansive "brags" about "tornado resistant" construction where inspection will shown that the house is solidly built but isn't fastened to the foundation except with a half-dozen small bolts. For tornados at around EF3 and larger, about the only truly safe construction is a deep hole in the ground, with steel I-Beams supporting a foot thick (or more) concrete slab for a roof. (You're out of the wind down in the hole, but a semi might land on the roof.) Schools in my area have been constructing "safe rooms" using double-course cement blocks, steel reinforced, with poured concrete (with additional steel) between the two layers of blocks. Nobody knows for sure whether they'll actually stand up to a "big-un" - yet. The web has many suggestions for how to build a tornado shelter, with the EPA sites among the more authoritative; but even the EPA recommendations leave it to the "shelter architect" to write all the equations necessary to predict meeting the "specs." (Neither a degree nor a license is "proof of competence" IMO, when it comes to specialized design of this kind, but it's about all you've got to go on. A current argument in my area is over whether the proposed "biolab" (relocating from back east) will resist a big tornado. The architects say they're using (since someone pointed out the need) the same wind resistance criteria specified currently for nuclear reactors; but a design to that current spec probably would not have completely survived the recent Joplin wind - although damage would have been limited to "peripheral structures" - maybe. John |