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04 Oct 11 - 07:00 PM (#3233972) Subject: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Wesley S So Hank Williams Jr compares Barak Obama to Hitler. Then his song is dropped from Monday Night Football as the opening song. Censorship? Or a wise move by the network? He has the right to make any comparison he wants - but the network still has the right to say they don't want to be associated with his viewpoints. What do you think? Here's the video |
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04 Oct 11 - 08:02 PM (#3233988) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Stilly River Sage Comparing someone to Hitler is on a different dimension from comparing someone to Moe of the Three Stooges or Alfred P. Newman (Mad Magazine) as was done with Dubya. I don't like Hank Williams, Jr. well enough to listen to the explanation he offers - I'll just say that I think the network is within their rights to stop using a piece of the artist makes a statement like that. Just like I think the artist has the right to pull their piece away from a politician who uses it in a campaign if the artist doesn't approve. Goes both ways. SRS |
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04 Oct 11 - 08:06 PM (#3233990) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: catspaw49 Sounds like a Win-Win to me which is what I thought this morning when I first heard about it. The beauty of rights comes home to all. Hank can say whatever ta' hell he wants (as long as it ain't treasonous) and ABC/ESPN can shitcan his ass if they so please! Works for me. Go Bama................. Spaw |
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04 Oct 11 - 08:14 PM (#3233995) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Bobert Hank Williams, Jr. is a redneck... And he's proud of being a redneck... It's part of his persona... Problem with Hank, Jr. is that he surrounds himself with other rednecks and they feed off each other ignorance and prejudices... I know lots of folks just like Hank, Jr... I hope that they don't let him return to Monday Night Football ever... BTW, one thing about rednecks is that they have convinced themselves that the stuff they do well are things that non-rednecks can't do... Like fishin' an' huntin' and drinkin' an' shootin' guns... Problem with their narrow minds is that they are generalizing... They don't know shit about what non-rednecks can or cannot do... F'n morons and proud to be morons!!! Bye, Hank, Jr... Your daddy had more class... B~ |
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04 Oct 11 - 08:19 PM (#3233998) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Don Firth Hank Williams Jr.'s explanation of how he came to make the "dumb statement" in the first place is almost as offensive as the statement itself. Don Firth |
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04 Oct 11 - 08:22 PM (#3234001) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: BTNG Hands up all those who really care what Hank Williams Jr. thinks, says or does |
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04 Oct 11 - 08:30 PM (#3234003) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: catspaw49 Couldn't agree more Bobertz! Hank Junior wrote one great song though..............It was very personal to him but I thought it applied itself to many children of legendary parents. I used a few excerpts from it for an article in a racing mag a few years ago on Dale Earhhardt Jr. THE LIVING PROOF.....Hank Williams Jr. I'm gonna quit singin' all these sad songs 'Cause I can't stand the pain Oh, the life I sing about now And the one I live is the same When I sing them old songs of daddy's Seems like every one comes true Lord, please help me Do I have to be the living proof Why just the other night after the show An old drunk came up to me He says "You ain't as good as your daddy, boy And you never will be" Then a young girl in old blue jeans Says, "I'm your biggest fan" It's a good thing I was born Gemini 'Cause I'm living for more than one man Remember Jimmie and Hank and Johnny They were in the summer of life When you called them away, Lord I don't wanna pay that price Don't let my son ever touch a guitar May he never sing the blues Let him be free Don't make him be more living proof I don't wanna be a legend I just wanna be a man But Lord, You know sometimes I've needed a helpin' hand And it ain't been so easy lately I've had to go it all alone But I've always had anything I ever wanted, except a home I'm gonna quit singin' all them sad songs 'Cause I can't stand the pain Oh, the life I sang to you about And the one I live is the same Yes, I've sang those old songs of daddy's And now it seems they all come true Lord, please help me Do I have to be the living proof Lord, please help me I don't wanna be the living proof |
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04 Oct 11 - 09:12 PM (#3234032) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Jim Dixon That's Alfred E. Neuman, not P., and not Newman. |
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04 Oct 11 - 09:16 PM (#3234035) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: frogprince The last time I happened to catch a glimpse of Jr., I was channel surfing and hit the moment when he was on stage with Sarah Palin, bellowing "Now we're going to sing that song that Barack Obama hates, The Star Spangled Banner". Not much way you could parody something like that. |
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04 Oct 11 - 09:22 PM (#3234038) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Bobert What-Me-Worry??? Hey, Alfred E. Newman is da' man!!! I got a statute of him right here next to my pudder and an unopened puppet of him... Plus, I still pick up a Mad magazine now and then... B~ |
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04 Oct 11 - 10:53 PM (#3234066) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: GUEST,999 Knew too many people in the west who were working cowboys/girls to have much respect for some guitar player who wears a cowboy hat on stage to say, hey, I'm country. What surprises me most is that while the people I knew kicked the stuff off their boots, this guy has it coming out his mouth. Yeah. Impressive. |
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04 Oct 11 - 11:16 PM (#3234077) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Bobert: "Bye, Hank, Jr... Your daddy had more class..." Yeah, dying of an overdose of smack showed great class, eh? GfS |
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04 Oct 11 - 11:22 PM (#3234080) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Bobert Yeah, brucie... The guy makes million$$$ every year yet has to throw that red meat to the folks who buy his records??? Like I have always said, rednecks ain't right... B~ |
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04 Oct 11 - 11:26 PM (#3234084) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: GUEST,999 LOL. |
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04 Oct 11 - 11:39 PM (#3234090) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity OHHHH...jeez...I get it....at least he croaked in the back seat of a Caddy! GfS |
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04 Oct 11 - 11:55 PM (#3234097) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Ron Davies Guest fleeing from sanity--- Do you ever research anything before blurting out your wonderful contributions? Hank Williams, Sr. and smack involved in his death? Evidence please. We'll go into the actual facts later, if no one else sets you straight in the meantime. |
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05 Oct 11 - 12:03 AM (#3234100) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Stilly River Sage I should have gotten that - I picked it up off of the photo that came up in the search. So many mistakes out there all end up in relatively the same place. :-/ SRS |
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05 Oct 11 - 12:20 AM (#3234103) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: JohnInKansas Does anyone else recall a somewhat similar flap over the Dixie Chicks a while back? Simlar bilge, same smell, same total lack of interest for most. I just hope Hank Jr doesn't use the same method - posing naked for a magazine cover - that got the Chicks back into working until the smell wore off. Ho Hum. John |
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05 Oct 11 - 12:28 AM (#3234106) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Ron Davies: "Do you ever research anything before blurting out your wonderful contributions? Hank Williams, Sr. and smack involved in his death? Evidence please." Well, morphine and alcohol.....I had a best friend, when I was in elementary school, who's father died in the mid 50's....the dad was Hank's drummer for a while. The mother, and family tells a different story that the 'cleaned up' fan accounts. For what it's worth. GfS |
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05 Oct 11 - 02:18 AM (#3234122) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Big Al Whittle Nonetheless Hank Senior's work is full of empathy and compassion and grim humour for life's losers. And isn't this what Obama is about? Trying to end this business of only a third of Americans having medical cover - extracting you from foreign wars that should hve been short punitive expeditions, but turned into trying reforming countries that don't really want to be reformed, and thus wasting your country's wealth. I'm sorry that Hank jnr has suffered from trying to live up the rep of his father, who was a songwriting genius. It can't have been easy for him. For what its worth I always thought Hank Jnr's records were pretty damn good. being a good musician doesn't stop you being a dope - as my friends often say about me. |
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05 Oct 11 - 07:05 AM (#3234197) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Wesley S Wow - Your friend had a father that played drums for Hank Sr. for a little while. And they tell a different story than the one generally accepted. Well - that's good enough for me. Thanks for the evidence. |
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05 Oct 11 - 08:33 AM (#3234227) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Ron Davies Indeed, if your best friend's dad was a drummer for an undetermined period of time, the story that famiy tells must be the unquestioned truth--who could doubt such a well-researched investigation? The National Enquirer is waiting for your call. |
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05 Oct 11 - 08:44 AM (#3234230) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Bobert Back in Hank Senior's day there wasn't the big money to be made... I mean, yeah, one could make a nice living but for all the nights where you did well there were one's where you didn't make jack... That's what kept Hank Senior well grounded... Fast forward and his son is a multi-millionaire and with not much to show for it in terms of his output compared to his daddy... I mean, what??? Not a #1 song in 25 years and not too many of them... But Hank is a rich guy and a redneck... Perfect combination for an Obama hater... Hank ain't concerned about the lives of folks who buy his records... If he was he's have the empathy to write better songs... B~ |
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05 Oct 11 - 08:52 AM (#3234237) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Ron Davies No one doubts that morphine and alcohol were both involved in the death of Hank, Sr. But anyone who alleges that the "generally accepted" story of his death is wrong has an obligation to give us what he or she sees as the actual facts, with exact quotes and exact sources. Otherwise such an allegation bears a remarkable resemblance to a smear. |
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05 Oct 11 - 08:55 AM (#3234242) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Big Mick "gratuitous assertion" comes to mind. |
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05 Oct 11 - 11:38 AM (#3234276) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: GUEST,number 6 Hanks Sr. was legendary singer/songwriter ..... I still enjoy listening to him ..... as do many, many ... many others .... and that's all what really matters. biLL |
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05 Oct 11 - 12:36 PM (#3234317) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Greg F. For what it's worth. GfS Ain't worth shit. As usual. |
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05 Oct 11 - 12:47 PM (#3234326) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Back in 1953 they didn't quite have the forensic testing that they do now. I can only go by what I know the family said. We know now, that alcohol and barbiturates, and/or heroin, morphine, and other downers, and/or opium based drugs can be a fatal cocktail. This is a known fact! According to the family, and the mother, who knew him, and was aware of his excesses, Hank was KNOWN to abuse those substances...so much, that she discouraged her sons to pursue music, as a career. This I KNOW! Now, if that isn't good enough for you, sorry...but I've know the family since the '50s. I am not smearing Hank, nor Elvis, nor Janis, nor Jimi, nor Morrison, nor Jackson, nor Winehouse, nor Denny Wilson, nor my former musical partner, nor any other musician/artist who fell into that temptation. If anything, it is a tragedy that rips people off from not only an artist, but to those close to that person, a dad, husband, wife, mother, brother, sister, son, daughter and/or friend. So let's knock it off, OK? Respectfully, GfS P.S. As to 'Big Al's' assertion, "And isn't this what Obama is about? Trying to end this business of only a third of Americans having medical cover - extracting you from foreign wars that should hve been short punitive expeditions, but turned into trying reforming countries that don't really want to be reformed, and thus wasting your country's wealth." Obama hasn't done ANY of those things....and he could have, ended the wars, and our foreign involvements, and vetoed economy crippling bailouts, that served the crooks and his cronies, with the stroke of a pen. As far as 'Health Care', the provisions in the bill, is what they were after. If it was 'only' for 'health reasons', Medicare/Medicaid could have been cleaned up, and expanded.....without dividing the country, and adding the totalitarian provisions, contained in the 'Obama Care' bill. So the answer to your question,"And isn't this what Obama is about?" The answer is a resounding "NO!".....and that should be alarmingly obvious to you by now! Had he done those things, there wouldn't even be a 'Tea Party'!..and, by the way, in case you're wondering about my position, Bush carries the weight of the guilt, as well! |
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05 Oct 11 - 01:00 PM (#3234333) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Stringsinger There is an interesting hypothesis (can't prove it) that the talent gene doesn't run through father to son. John Barrymore Jr. Julian Lenon. Frank Sinatra Jr. Hank Williams Jr. That's not to say that the aforementioned are devoid of any talent but does the gene of real success come through the father or the mother? (Mendel figures here). Hank Jr. is obviously an impaired alcoholic who is a tragic figure who can never aspire to his father's success. He traded on the "name" which is always a mistake because he sets himself up to comparison. The song posted above is not particularly good because it reflects a self-pity. Hank Jr. and Toby Keith try to wrap themselves in the flag, a fatal mistake for both of them. |
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05 Oct 11 - 01:03 PM (#3234337) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: BTNG Hank Jr's son has inherited a measure of his grandfather's incredible talent. |
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05 Oct 11 - 01:12 PM (#3234348) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: gnu From: BTNG - PM Date: 04 Oct 11 - 08:22 PM Hands up all those who really care what Hank Williams Jr. thinks, says or does ******************************************************************** My hand is up because I was a fan for years. He put in a lot of hard roadwork under a different name and he made his money honestly. His fans didn't throw money at him for his looks or because his daddy was good. I am glad he stood up to be accounted for by offering his opinion and I was very interested to to hear what he said. Otherwise, I wouldn't have known he's such a dickhead. I think Monday Night Football accounted his ass reeeeal good. And, as for Hank drinkin and doin morphine, d'ya s'pose he mighta had a reason fer that? My old man was drinkin wine and morphine when he died. Only reason it wasn't that stuff that killed him was cause I wouldn't give him as much as he wanted to ease ALL the pain. You got a mean streak. |
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05 Oct 11 - 01:23 PM (#3234359) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity gnu: "And, as for Hank drinkin and doin morphine, d'ya s'pose he mighta had a reason fer that? My old man was drinkin wine and morphine when he died. Only reason it wasn't that stuff that killed him was cause I wouldn't give him as much as he wanted to ease ALL the pain. You got a mean streak." Are you sure? I don't drink, or do morphine, or ANY painkillers, and I have some pretty excruciating back pains, from an accident I suffered in the early '80's. That shit is certainly more harmful, that the pain! Just take a look. GfS |
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05 Oct 11 - 01:40 PM (#3234376) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: catspaw49 Wanna' explain why a song can't be good because it reflects self-pity? I think that for almost any child born to a famous parent can sometimes have a rough road. They often find themselves in the same business simply because they grew up with it. They may have even more skill than their famous parent but they may have less. In either case the expectation level of the fan can be almost out of reach for them. The way they handle this may be different for each one but self-pity, even in the short term, often comes into play. I think most learn to deal with it and move on but the means they use might be unhealthy. It gets worse for the kid who bears the same name and the parent is dead. I used part of it about Dale Jr. because a portion of his fan base came from Dale Sr. He gets the young girl saying she's his biggest fan and the old drunk saying he's not as good as his Daddy and never will be. My question.....who wants to be Junior? There are lots of songs about anger, love, heartbreak, loss......self-pity is just another feeling. If you mean it makes for a navel gazer, you're right and they ain't my favorites either..... but they aren't all bad songs. Spaw |
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05 Oct 11 - 01:42 PM (#3234378) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: BTNG if songs of self-pity were done away with, approx. a quarter of the country music catalogue would vanish |
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05 Oct 11 - 01:53 PM (#3234385) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Ebbie To quote someone else: I think self pity is better than none. :) |
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05 Oct 11 - 01:53 PM (#3234386) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Big Mick Toss in a ton of the folk music of Europe while you are at it. Loch Tay Boat song jumps to mind immediately. |
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05 Oct 11 - 01:56 PM (#3234388) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: gnu Am I sure ya gotta mean streak? Don't you read your own posts?... on various threads? The false personal attacks and accusations on Mudcatters; the false attacks and accusations on people you know nothing about... do you not understand that your written vitriolic unbased spews show ever reader herein same? You are your own worst enemy. |
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05 Oct 11 - 02:00 PM (#3234393) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Attacking stupidity is one thing....if one wants that stupidity, as one with themselves, then it would appear as you say. Appearances can be deceiving, though.... GfS |
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05 Oct 11 - 02:10 PM (#3234402) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity gnu, I think that this link explains better, what I mean. To something I just posted! Regards, GfS |
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05 Oct 11 - 02:58 PM (#3234424) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: gnu So, now you have called the people you attacked stupid. Keep digging. Better search out a sale on shovels because it appears yer gonna wear your shovelssss out. In any case, don't waste your time trying to convince me of your "innocence" or "superiority". Your posts speak for themselves. Take ake's strategy and just ignore me when I call you on bullshit and being nasty. Being a good troll is an art. |
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05 Oct 11 - 03:30 PM (#3234436) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Little Hawk Why would anyone care or be even slightly concerned about what Hank Williams Junior has to say about politics? |
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05 Oct 11 - 03:33 PM (#3234441) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: gnu On accounta they are stunned rednecks? I believe that was alluded to. And, I believe my post was valid and along the same lines as others' posts to that effect. |
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05 Oct 11 - 03:36 PM (#3234443) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Little Hawk Hell, when it comes to politics I'd listen to Chongo long before I'd listen to Hank Williams Junior. After all, Chongo's been around some. And he reads Raymond Chandler. |
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05 Oct 11 - 03:48 PM (#3234453) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Don Firth politics etymology: compound word. poly = many + ticks = small, blood-sucking insects. Don Firth |
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05 Oct 11 - 03:57 PM (#3234459) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: gnu HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Don! Hehehehehee. |
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05 Oct 11 - 04:30 PM (#3234476) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: katlaughing Good one, Don! First time I ever knew about Hank Jr. was when I went to a drive-in movie in which he portrayed his dad. That would've been in the early 70s. I liked him then. I have not followed him and I sure wouldn't care to now. And, I certainly don't give a shit what he thinks of politics. Moral of the story: don't saddle a kid with a "Jr" name. Never did like that; each kid deserves their own name. Maybe he would've turned out different without such an onus. (And, I love Hank Sr.'s music.) |
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05 Oct 11 - 04:36 PM (#3234481) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Wesley S "Why would anyone care or be even slightly concerned about what Hank Williams Junior has to say about politics?" Well - remember he did make his comments on Fox News...... And as Jon Stewert pointed out - it was just about an hour after the host of the show asked why anyone should care what a celebrity has to say about politics. |
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05 Oct 11 - 04:49 PM (#3234490) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Big Al Whittle tell me about 'the totalitarian provisions, contained in the 'Obama Care' bill'. I never heard about them. |
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05 Oct 11 - 05:14 PM (#3234509) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Bobert Reality is that famous musicians, actors and sports figures are taken seriously by way to many people... I mean, all you have to do is sew the name "Michale Jordon" on a $20 pair of sneakers and now they bring $100??? I mean, we didn't used to have all this worship/tabloid mentality 30 years ago... We made fun of the Brits and National Enquirer and now it is everywhere you look and people making mega-bucks for nothing... But with the mega-bucks there is an unwritten rule to "behave yourself" and "act right"... Hank Jr. crossed the line... No big deal... Now he's burned the bridge (at least for awhile)... If he want's to get back then he's going to have to learn that any apology that begins with the word "if" ain't an apology... B~ |
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05 Oct 11 - 06:11 PM (#3234541) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Little Hawk He said that comparing Obama to someone else (some Republican?) was like comparing Hitler to Netanyahu. I think that's funny, because as far as I'm concerned the latter is kind of like comparing Attila the Hun to Genghis Khan or Tamerlane. In other words, as a supposed juxtaposition of "exact opposites" it just doesn't work for me. |
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05 Oct 11 - 06:15 PM (#3234543) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: BTNG I know some humans who should read Raymond Chandler, but that's a totally different story... |
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05 Oct 11 - 06:44 PM (#3234556) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: michaelr What he actually said, LH, was that Obama and Boehner playing golf was like Hitler and Netanyahu playing golf. That's not quite the same as "comparing Obama to Hitler", is it? |
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05 Oct 11 - 06:58 PM (#3234561) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Bobert He went well beyond that in describing Obama as "the enemy"... Not so funny after all, LH... Not all that amusing... B~ |
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05 Oct 11 - 07:59 PM (#3234585) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Wesley S Maybe what he REALLY wanted to say is that Boehner is the one that's like Hitler and it's Obama that resembles Netanyahu. Only Hank and Jack Daniels know for sure.... |
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05 Oct 11 - 08:04 PM (#3234587) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Bobert LOL, Wesley... B~ |
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05 Oct 11 - 08:09 PM (#3234591) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Wesley S Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert comment on the situation. |
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06 Oct 11 - 03:42 AM (#3234697) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: GUEST,guest Hank Williams Jr is a no-talent d-bag that owes everything he has to his famous name. Crappy singer, can't play,writes songs that sound like half-ass beer commercials, a dim bulb that wishes the south would have won the civil war. Drug addict and drunk who, if his name were not Hank Williams, would likely be found in an alley somewhere in a puddle of his own vomit...would you like to know how I really feel about him? :) |
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06 Oct 11 - 03:49 AM (#3234698) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Richard Bridge The problem surely is that the terminally stupid, deprived of a decent education by the US system and deprived of decent factual news by the US system, do care what "celebrities" say about politics and are influenced by it. |
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06 Oct 11 - 08:57 AM (#3234786) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Ron Davies "i don't do...any painkillers". Perhaps you should consider doing something about your pain. It might improve your attitude. Which, as many have pointed out, just possibly could stand some attention. Of course that's up to you. Hank, Sr. is a tragic figure--a flawed person--nobody is arguing that, and in fact it is part of the "accepted story". Who nevertheless left behind a body of work which has been a huge influence on country music and brought untold pleasure to uncounted millions. Maybe even almost as much as your own wonderful contributions to society. So far, not even the National Enquirer would be interested in your revelations. They have revealed nothing--except that your first post on Hank Sr. was in fact a smear. Smack had nothing to do with his death. You have established nothing which contradicts the "accepted story" of Hank Sr.'s death. All we ask is that you start thinking before posting. Seems a reasonable request. And if you don't, be prepared to be called on every one of your smears. Your choice. |
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06 Oct 11 - 11:29 AM (#3234839) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: ollaimh anyone who compares obama to hilter is as ignorant and redneck as it gets.it's hate speech. palin saying obama hates the star spangled banner is simillarily full of delusion and hate. hate seems to be winning in the united states. i hope this is the high water mark and thigs start to get sane again but yeah i believe in censoring people who reject out basic democratic priciples and democracy cannot function when hate speech and lies from delusion politicians feeding the ignorant are allowed on the airwaves. too bad the us doesn't have hate speech legislation |
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06 Oct 11 - 11:37 AM (#3234842) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: dick greenhaus Sure it's censorship----so what? |
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06 Oct 11 - 11:56 AM (#3234849) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: BTNG The Worst Part Of Censorship is #$@^&* *** #@&^* with an attitude like "so what?" well if people see that they got away with it once, well, they'll try it again and again and again....... |
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06 Oct 11 - 12:18 PM (#3234862) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: pdq "Boehner and Obama are playing golf together" = "Sheriff Clark and Lena Horne are dancing cheek-to-cheek" |
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06 Oct 11 - 12:33 PM (#3234870) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Stilly River Sage Link. |
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06 Oct 11 - 12:35 PM (#3234872) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Big Mick BTNG, you have demonstrated your lack of understanding of the distinctions in law. Censorship, all by itself is neither wrong nor right, or it can be wrong or right. Censorship by a government, used in an oppressive way to stop the free expression of political view would be wrong. In this case no one is stopping HW, Jr from expressing his views. But the network is using it's right to say they don't want it on their product. Censorship? Yes. But to quote my good friend Mr. Greenhaus, "so what?". Hank, if he feels strongly can use another forum. Mick |
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06 Oct 11 - 12:37 PM (#3234873) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Wesley S Actually it's not really censonship but censureship. Hank Jr spoke his mind and that's an American right. And I support his right to say things I disagree with. But Monday Night Football also has the right to not do business with Hank because of his views. Both are good American values. |
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06 Oct 11 - 12:58 PM (#3234883) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: KB in Iowa Seems to me like a clear case of capitalism at work. ESPN is dissatisfied with HW Jr. so will be going with a different vendor. |
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06 Oct 11 - 01:22 PM (#3234891) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Richard Bridge Goodness, another first! I agree with Olly this time. |
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06 Oct 11 - 02:04 PM (#3234920) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: dick greenhaus If Monday Night Football made any pretense of being a public information provider or forum, there might be a problem with its censoring or banning or firing Mr. Williams. It's not, and there isn't. |
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06 Oct 11 - 02:42 PM (#3234947) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Bert Frogprince says... he was on stage with Sarah Palin Hmmm. "I've got friends in low places" |
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06 Oct 11 - 07:23 PM (#3235079) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Bobert Hey, there is a reason why good clubs don't hire lousy musicians... They are lousy... I guess that some folks would call that censorship... Hey, when you hire people to entertain folks then you have the right to censor the folks who won't help your club... This is very basic stuff... BTW, ig Hnak, Jr, was pumping out #1 songs it might be a different story but the guy isn't... Like someone said, you take asway his name and he's just another country-star-wantabee... And there's millions of them... B~ |
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06 Oct 11 - 08:13 PM (#3235095) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: catspaw49 This subject came up as Karen and I were driving to Columbus today and Karen had the best/funniest line by far: "I liked him better when he was Richard Thomas......" Spaw |
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06 Oct 11 - 09:30 PM (#3235116) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: GUEST,999 Say goodnight, Spaw. |
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06 Oct 11 - 10:10 PM (#3235128) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Jeri I couldn't figure out whatthehell he was talking about, until I remembered Richard Thomas (John Boy) is an actor. Karen's favorite Hank Jr |
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06 Oct 11 - 11:36 PM (#3235155) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: frogprince Oh, yeah; did you know that, in the tradition of other actors who have done things like put on a ton of lard, or starve nearly to death, to fit a role, that R. Thomas smashed his face so he would need a beard to cover the damage before auditioning for that one. (I know, forgive me Lord...) |
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07 Oct 11 - 12:04 AM (#3235168) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Ron Davies Jan is a huge fan of Toby Keith (of all people). At least he does seem to have a bit of a sense of humor. One of his songs is "I'm Not As Good As I Once Was But I'm As Good Once As I Ever Was". I've pointed out to her that this is supremely meaningless. Also, one of his albums, I think, is called "White Trash With Money". That seems to fit Bocephus to a T. |
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07 Oct 11 - 12:13 AM (#3235173) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Stilly River Sage Ron, not meaningless at all. It just means you'd better get it right the first time. . . :) SRS |
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07 Oct 11 - 01:05 AM (#3235182) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Toby Keith!! GfS |
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07 Oct 11 - 09:00 AM (#3235286) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Ron Davies "talk about me". Yeah, he sure does. This is, as they say, a "true fact." For the real sense of humor, try the video of the song I cited. Which is in fact a good one. And "I'm not as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"---if translated into literal English--does not in fact say how good he once was, just that he's no better. As I said. But at least he does not shoot pet bears in an enclosure (as far as I know), as Troy Gentry did once. |
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07 Oct 11 - 09:23 AM (#3235294) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Ron Davies For a great sense of humor, try Brad Paisley's "Online": "When you've got my set of stats, it's hard to get a date/ Let alone a real girlfriend/ But I gain another foot and I lose a bunch of weight/ Every time I log in." The video with this is priceless--and includes a great role for Mr. Shatner. Another great one by Brad is: "Celebrity"--especially the video. Again, Shatner is classic. |
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07 Oct 11 - 09:29 AM (#3235298) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Big Al Whittle never heard of him - had to look him up but:- 'On November 27, 2006, Gentry pleaded guilty to a charge of falsely tagging a bear that was killed in a fenced enclosure as if it had been killed in the wild.[46] Under the plea agreement, he agreed to pay a $15,000 fine, give up hunting, fishing and trapping in Minnesota for 5 years, and forfeit both the stuffed bear and the bow used to shoot the animal in 2004. Gentry posted a statement on the duo's website on November 9, 2010, apologizing for his actions.' What a shit! |
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07 Oct 11 - 09:41 AM (#3235302) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Ron Davies Yeah, Jan loves the current country crop, but she she says she turns the TV down when Montgomery Gentry comes on, and never plays their CD she bought before the bear incident. The fine should have been $1.5 million and he should have been banned from hunting anywhere forever. That would possibly have made the point. |
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07 Oct 11 - 10:45 AM (#3235339) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: pdq "...and forfeit both the stuffed bear and the bow used to shoot the animal in 2004..." Note that the bear Montgomery Gentry took was killed with bow and arrow. I don't like what he did, but anyone who thinks it is guttless to shoot a bear with an arrow, even if it is in a fenced range, should try facing a charging bear. I did and it ain't something I would recomend if you want a long and healthy life. Part of the penalty was for claiming it was taken in a open range thus falsifying the tag. |
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07 Oct 11 - 11:00 AM (#3235343) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: frogprince Gentry's killing of the bear was publicized to show him off as a mighty hunter. When the truth came out, he issued an "apology" which was largely a whine about how someone misguided him into the whole thing. Poor little misguided fellar. |
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07 Oct 11 - 11:04 AM (#3235346) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Big Mick Pdq, that is a ridiculous statement. I am a hunter, both with muzzleloader and bow. While I would agree that a charging bear is frightful, shooting any animal that is caged, regardless of the weapon used, amounts to nothing more than shooting fish in a barrel. There is no risk, no effort at scouting and tracking, and is being done solely to put a trophy on the wall at the expense of a magnificent animal's life. It shows no respect for the animal or the tradition. It is a practice reserved for low life trash hunters. Mick |
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07 Oct 11 - 11:14 AM (#3235352) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: catspaw49 I used to be a low-life trash hunter when I was young but I got tired of taking the penicillin shots so I gave it up........... Spaw |
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07 Oct 11 - 11:16 AM (#3235353) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Ron Davies Also, the bear was someone's pet, as I recall---complete with name "Cubby". And the person who volunteered a pet for Gentry's desperate attempt to prove his machismo should also have been punished. Don't remember if that was done. |
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07 Oct 11 - 01:21 PM (#3235420) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: BTNG "BTNG, you have demonstrated your lack of understanding of the distinctions in law" I don't pretend to be an expert..... |
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07 Oct 11 - 01:46 PM (#3235433) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Big Mick That comment was a nit snarky, wasn't it. I'm sorry about that, BTNG. Sometimes, when one is writing on an iPhone and feeling a bit annoyed, things come off like that. Apologies. Mick |
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07 Oct 11 - 02:32 PM (#3235468) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: gnu I am glad I came back to this thread on accounta I WAS a big Montgomery Gentry fan. That stuff about the bear is sickening. Just one more thing... Bocephus... money... yup, got a shitload more than all of us put together. And, like I said, it wasn't given to him. He EARNED it by selling seats and songs under his "pen name". Don't matter if he's a white trash redneck asshole as far as his talent is concerned. SOMEone paid him all that money to play and sing so as far as trashing him as a performer *I* find that a little odd.... I wish I had his bank account. |
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07 Oct 11 - 02:52 PM (#3235476) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: GUEST,999 "I wish I had his bank account." Gnu, I'll put you in touch with Mr Joshuah Mbgamba, Commander-in-Chiefs and interim CEO of the White House Royal Nigerian Bank based in Washington, CD. We'll get this done by next Wednesday. No need to thank me. |
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07 Oct 11 - 06:02 PM (#3235540) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Ed T Why would we expect entertainers, or their heirs or celebraties to have a greater perspective on life, politics or anything else in life-than anyone else? |
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07 Oct 11 - 06:08 PM (#3235546) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Ed T I guess what I am say'in, in my last post is Hank's son has personal opinions, like o0ther folks, nothing more, nothing less. Some of these personal (or celebrity) opinions make sense to some, and others do not. So, why make it more than that? Regardless, if others, or Hank's son himself, tries to elivate "a personal political opinion" to a greater atatus? |
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07 Oct 11 - 07:08 PM (#3235570) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: gnu Ed... well there ya go eh? Thread drift. It happens. Ya start talkin about football and some yahoo thinks that helments are for sissies even tho rugby players wear them but not modern helmets becuase... and then someone else... and then someone says Hank Jr's music is bullshit even tho he's a multi-buckionaire and it all started because he made an assinine comment which was either VERY upsetting or may have been interpreted incorrectly or whatever the fuck. Fact is, no explanation he could give is gonna reverse the fact that he fucked up royally one way or the other. And, ya know what? I don't really care anymore. Early on in this thread? Yes, I did. But then people start trashin his daddy and trashin his success? Again, it all seems odd to me. If I am wrong, I'll be the first ta admit it or ta tell ya ta fuck off. Course, that's not anything ya didn't know already. I will miss it... ARE YOU READY FOR SOME FOOTBALL?!!!! Great tune! I won't miss Hank IF he did what he supposedly did... and I am NOT gonna spend any of my time researching it on accounta I really don't give two fucks from Tuesday... errrr, Monday. |
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07 Oct 11 - 08:29 PM (#3235602) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Ron Davies If anybody is interested in Mr. Gentry's career as a mighty hunter, you might want to check the Mudcat thread at the time of the incident (2006): Troy Gentry Guilty In Tame Bear Killing. I didn't even start it, though if I'd been the first to learn about it, I would have. The absolute perfect punishment for him would have been to be banned from hunting anything forever. Just think, every time his hunting buddies wanted to him to come along he would have had to tell why he could not---forever. So he would never live the story down. I'm sure the Mikado would have approved. |
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07 Oct 11 - 10:05 PM (#3235639) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Wesley S Y'know I think I would have respected Hank Jr more if the next day he had said "Yeah - I said it and I meant it too". I get tired of folks backtracking as soon as they hear that people didn't like what they said. |
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07 Oct 11 - 10:42 PM (#3235647) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Ron Davies And it doesn't really make people think he doesn't believe it--just that it's not politic to say it. So now what happens to Bocephus' carefully nurtured reputation as an "outlaw"? An "outlaw" til he's told he's gone too far? |
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08 Oct 11 - 09:56 AM (#3235774) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Bobert I donno if Hank, Jr. exactly back-tracked all that much, Wesley... I mean, and apology that begins with "If I offended" ain't exactly changing the story... Had he really apologized then maybe he wouldn't have gotten canned... No matter... I don't watch Monday night football unless my beloved Washington Redskins are playin'... I certainly don't watch if to hear Hank, Jr.... BTW, not sure why the ol' Waylon Jennings line "Did Hank really make it this way" keeps going thru my head??? B~ |
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08 Oct 11 - 10:14 AM (#3235783) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: pdq Hank Jr. does a type of music that appeals to Rock fans and Country fans alike. Rock is characterized by liberal politics and dope smoking. A suprizing number of rockers are beer-drinkers including the great Alice Cooper as were the departed Pigpen, Janis Joplin and others. Many have become Christian Conservatives including Randy Bachman, Chris Hillman and Barry McGuire. There would be no problem booking a giant Rock-Country event with Ted Negent, Hank Jr., the group Leonard Skinnard, Brad Paisley, Reggie Young, Charlie Danniels, Toby Keith, Tracy Byrd and Kinky Friedman's slide player Lee Roy Parnell. The guitar jam at the end of the concert would blow away everybody. |
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08 Oct 11 - 11:43 AM (#3235818) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Wesley S It's been decades since Pigpen and Janis Joplin have had a drink. Same with Alice Cooper if I'm not mistaken - but for different reasons. Add Rick Derringer to that list of Christian conservatives. |
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08 Oct 11 - 12:02 PM (#3235826) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: BTNG Chris Hillman's a what......???!! here in his own words is where CHRIS hILLMAN'S at spIritually from the Triste website dated 2003 Triste: And if you don't mind me asking, you describe yourself as a pretty 'developed Christian', I think, in one interview once. I suppose these songs are meaningful to you on a personal level - something deeper than just on a secular level. Of course, many people sing gospel songs, but obviously they have another deeper spiritual level, don't they? Chris Hillman: Well, yeah. I'm a member of the Greek Orthodox faith, having been an Evangelical Christian back in the 80's, and then I converted to the orthodox faith. Yeah, I'm very much devoted to that, but I don't get in people's face about it, or try and convert anybody! But it is my own personal belief with my family, and I sing in the orthodox choir every Sunday - sing tenor - which is really Byzantine. Part of the liturgy that they do every week, and so it's a completely different kind of music to what I do on stage, which is bluegrass. And even when we do gospel stuff, it's out of the old Baptist style, and Herb and I do old gospel songs in our show. It's really completely different. And then on Sundays when I'm in town, when I'm home, I sing these very old Byzantine hymns that you would hear in a monastery. But actually, both types of music embrace each other, if you follow me. I mean I get a lot out of the church singing as well as the other. And actually I get wonderful ideas from singing in a completely different style. Triste: So at church then, you basically sing in the Eastern tradition, obviously. I presume the harmonies are different - different intervals or whatever? Chris Hillman: Yeah it is different. It uses different musical scales. But it is the Eastern Orthodox Church. As you would expect with the Russian Orthodox, Greek Orthodox, Serbian Orthodox, and the Orthodox faith of course, coming out of Constantinople, Istanbul, it is very different you know. But that's a whole other discussion! and this as well Hillman actually has little time or patience for Christian conservative narrow-mindedness |
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08 Oct 11 - 12:07 PM (#3235829) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: BTNG and this about Randy Bachman, again, in Bachman's own words Bachman was a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. During his early Guess Who years, his religious beliefs conflicted with the sex, drugs & rock n roll lifestyle of the other band members and caused some bitterness between Bachman and bandmate Burton Cummings. Bachman later renounced his Mormon beliefs, saying, "We found some things that couldn't be reconciled," and declaring, "Religion is a bunch of rules, a fear factor. so....... |
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08 Oct 11 - 12:10 PM (#3235830) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Ed T Gnu, I don't know, not that far off the topic IMO, though it may be on one of the edges of the discussion, like most often happens when threads exceed 100? Here was the main thread question:""He has the right to make any comparison he wants - but the network still has the right to say they don't want to be associated with his viewpoints. What do you think? "" Of course they do, it is their dollar, may have been a common sense answer. But, that would have kept the thread discussion # very small. I agree that he or anyone, celebrity or not, mostly have the right to say what they want. However, why whine when a commercial enterprise is concerned about the impact of their bottom line, and takes what they see as mitigating action. As a commercial product himself, he should know from past cases, that there are consequences in expressing extreme views (over the line) that may offend some clients of the person he kind of represents, and who pays part of his salary. My "not so drifty" point is, why would the public be so concerned, or surprised, or gives much thought to, the fact that celebrities have opinions, and some that are somewhat extreme and some of them wants to tell folks? After all, some celebrity folks even compared W. Bush to an idiot. Now, that would make a good TV commercial, but not likely to happen:) |
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08 Oct 11 - 12:10 PM (#3235831) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Ron Davies Bachmann's view on religion dovetails neatly with that of some of our illustrious Mudcatters. |
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08 Oct 11 - 12:18 PM (#3235836) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Ron Davies And like them, he appears supremely ignorant of human nature and human history to think that without religion, everything will be just hunky-dory. Check Hitler, Stalin and Mao--each of whom set himself up as a God-substitute, and encouraged his countrymen to see him as the embodiment of the country--for a rebuttal of this charmingly naive idea. |
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08 Oct 11 - 12:35 PM (#3235838) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: BTNG such a rather nasty patronizing attitude you have Ronnie boy |
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08 Oct 11 - 01:01 PM (#3235848) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Ron Davies My heart bleeds for you. Facts are stubborn things. If you don't want to grapple with them, perhaps you want to participate in life outside Mudcat. It does exist, you know. |
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08 Oct 11 - 01:03 PM (#3235850) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: pdq Thanks, BTMG. I needed those updates on Chris and Randy. They are obviously enjoying life a great adventure and are changing all the time. BTW, Bernie Leadon, a founding member of the Eagles, was in Chris Hillman's Gospel Bluegrass group "Ever Call Ready" in the late 70s or early 80s. So was southern California Country-Rock pioneer Al Perkins, all claimed to be Christian conservatives at the time. |
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08 Oct 11 - 01:29 PM (#3235855) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: BTNG there's a huge difference between facts and personal opinion, Ronnie boy, you should really learn that difference. I've read some of you previous missifs here on Mudcat, such negativity as I have never seen, you noth good to say about anything, sunshine...and do please curb that patronizing attitude, it's starting to seriously get on my nerves pdq on a far more pleasant note speaking of Hillman and Leadon check this out, it's a bit rough but a joy to watch Chris Hillman, Herb Pedersen, and Bernie Leadon in San Diego |
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08 Oct 11 - 01:33 PM (#3235858) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Wesley S A film about Hank Williams Sr: The Last Ride |
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08 Oct 11 - 01:45 PM (#3235861) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: BTNG This forthcoming film on Hank Sr certainly does have it's possibilities |
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08 Oct 11 - 03:26 PM (#3235893) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: GUEST,josepp I told all of you what kind of game football is and who it attracts. So why should Jr's remarks surprise anybody? He was there to attract a white demographic that is fanatic about football just as they are fanatic about everything--politics, religion, sex--everything. This is the kind of demographic that detests Obama because he is descended from a black African father. Just as they detest anybody who is descended from black Africans while they swill beer and cheer on their favorite teams that are 90% black. Then love to complain how some of these guys act off the field but who wouldn't get the time of day if these assholes weren't cheering on his every move on-field. To them: On-field he's a great player; off-field he's an arrogant, uppity no-good darky just like the president he obviously voted for. This game doesn't bring out the worst in people, it just attracts the worst kind of people. |
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08 Oct 11 - 04:18 PM (#3235906) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Wesley S So all football fans are racist? Does that include English Football { AKA Soccer } too? |
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08 Oct 11 - 05:50 PM (#3235935) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: BTNG I was wondering about the vast generalization as posited by Herr GUEST,josepp. I couldn't make up my mind whether to be outraged, or shocked and appalled (not in Reading). I settled on thinking just how ignorant and what a snob Herr GUEST,josepp appears to be |
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08 Oct 11 - 05:57 PM (#3235938) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: gnu "However, why whine when a commercial enterprise is concerned about the impact of their bottom line, and takes what they see as mitigating action." I didn't. |
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08 Oct 11 - 06:59 PM (#3235952) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Ed T Gnu Did not mean to ssuggest you whined (or not). I was answering your somewhat odd "drift accusationz" :) at the top, and refering to a broader audience later in my post. Sorry to have not made that clearer. I was between black-toping my driveway, on an unseasonally warm day, and the washroom (had a few taquila for encouragement to do the job) and stopped by the computer when I repled. I should have been clearer. Taquila and computers may not mix. |
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08 Oct 11 - 07:20 PM (#3235960) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Bobert Ain't getting into no food fights but I've always enjoyed Chris Hillman... Loved him in the Byrds and Desert Rose Band and everything in between... B~ |
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08 Oct 11 - 07:20 PM (#3235961) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: gnu Ed... I KNEW you didn't but it may have not been clear to other readers who had not read all the posts so I just made a clarification. No worries. *I* was NEVER in doubt. As for tequila and posting, I have no idea but I do know tequila is stronger than beer. >;-) |
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09 Oct 11 - 02:19 PM (#3236303) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Ron Davies "on my nerves". Pobrecito. Well, I did humbly suggest what you can do about it. I do hope the person holding a gun to your head forcing you to read my posts takes the gun away soon. I can certainly understand why atheists, "freethinkers", irreligionists, or whatever moniker you endorse are not eager to embrace the truth that atheism has been the worst thing ever for humanity. And for the reason I cited--it makes it easy for a person to set himself up as a God-substitute. Which makes dissent a bit difficult, to put it mildly. And atheists have been responsible for more deaths than anything else in human history. As for atheism's cultural accomplishments, they seem to begin and end with Frank Zappa. Whereas religion has been the inspiration for a bit more in the cultural field--like a huge array or wonderful music and art. |
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09 Oct 11 - 02:20 PM (#3236305) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Ron Davies "array of" |
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09 Oct 11 - 08:10 PM (#3236436) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: michaelr atheism has been the worst thing ever for humanity There's a whopper! I'm not even gonna ask you to back that one up with reality-based arguments. |
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09 Oct 11 - 10:39 PM (#3236507) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Big Al Whittle atheism, or panty hose....depends on your world view. |
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09 Oct 11 - 11:54 PM (#3236526) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: GUEST,Josepp Ron, go take your medicine. |
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10 Oct 11 - 08:35 AM (#3236649) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Ed T Would this be censorship? swastika symbol |
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10 Oct 11 - 10:37 AM (#3236726) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Wesley S This is from MSN: Hank Williams Jr. writes song about 'Fox & Friends,' ESPN Oct. 10, 2011, 5:53 AM EST NASHVILLE, Tenn. (AP) -- Hank Williams Jr. is about to have his say. Williams' has cut a new song "I'll Keep My ..." calling out "Fox & Friends" and ESPN. An interview last week on the Fox News talk show led to the end of his association with the sports network and "Monday Night Football," long home to his "Are you ready for some football?" theme. He's also scheduled to appear on "The View" and "Hannity" on Tuesday to discuss the uproar that sprung up after he made an analogy that President Barack Obama and House Speaker Rep. John Boehner golfing together was like Nazi leader Adolph Hitler and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu playing a round. ESPN decided to pull Williams' intro from last Monday's "MNF" telecast after the comments and the move became permanent Thursday when both sides said they'd decided to pull the spot. Williams wrote the topical third verse of "I'll Keep My ..." when he woke up Friday morning and he and a group of players laid it down in a Nashville studio by Friday afternoon. It could be on iTunes late Monday or early Tuesday. In the song Williams, son of country music icon Hank Williams, says "Fox & Friends" hosts twisted his words: "So Fox 'n Friends wanna put me down/Ask for my opinion/Twist it all around." He finishes the verse: "Well two can play that gotcha game you'll see." Early in the song, he says the U.S. is "going down the drain" and says it's becoming "The United Socialist States of America." He mentions keeping "Fox & Friends" and ESPN out of your home toward the end of the song. Williams' comments last Monday drew unlikely reactions with many commentators and comedians coming to his defense, claiming ESPN was infringing on his right to free speech. His defenders included the left-leaning Whoopi Goldberg and Joy Behar of "The View" and Jon Stewart of "The Daily Show" and on the other side of the political landscape Sarah Palin and Rush Limbaugh. The brouhaha prompted Williams also to start selling "Hank Jr. for President" T-shirts on his website. Williams' theme song has been part of "MNF" since 1989. The song was a version of his hit "All My Rowdy Friends Are Coming Over Tonight" that he altered to match each week's game. He owns the song and all the rights to it, so ESPN will not be able to use it in any way. Instead, the network says it will use an intro featuring Hall of Fame running back Barry Sanders and soul singer Jimmy Scott prior to the Chicago Bears at Detroit Lions game Monday night. The introduction will change each week. |
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10 Oct 11 - 11:35 AM (#3236755) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Jeri Ron, I wish you and everyone else would stop treating atheism as a separate faith. It's not. It's NOT believing in a deity. Basically, everything done by people was done by people, and belief in God or a god or gods may be claimed by those people as their inspiration, but THE THINGS WERE DONE BY PEOPLE. I think neither religious beliefs nor the their absence is responsible for the most evil. I think that badge of shame belongs to the holier/smarter-than-thou fuckwits who get into arguments about who's holier/smarter-than-thou and who has done most good and who has done most harm and CAN'T EVER SHUT UP ABOUT IT. People do it, and people can blame whomever they choose, but it still comes down to the people. For the record, Hank Jr said it. They've replayed it a bunch of times on various news channels. |
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10 Oct 11 - 07:21 PM (#3237021) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: gnu Well said Jeri. Well said. |
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10 Oct 11 - 08:42 PM (#3237061) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Lonesome EJ Bocephus is a redneck gun-nut like a lot of other people, and he has a right to his own opinion. Sharing it on Fox Friends was probably a miscalculation...I'm sure he thought it would go over really well. Monday night Football has every right to can his redneck ass as well, and I'm glad they did. |
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10 Oct 11 - 08:52 PM (#3237066) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Jeri You say something oops-ish in a conversation and people's ears just move along and it falls off somewhere. You say it on any sort of recorded medium, and it hangs around our neck like a dead albatross. Once it came out of his mouth, it was all over. Lots of people lack the brain-to-mouth filter, but they usually aren't in the public eye much... or for very long. |
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10 Oct 11 - 08:55 PM (#3237067) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Ed T ""Not many people can say they have performed during five Super Bowl openings. I am so happy to have been part of the ABC family since 1989, and with my love for football, this was a win-win partnership."" Hank Williams Jr. quote So much for family:) |
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10 Oct 11 - 10:28 PM (#3237083) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Jeri ...and of course I'm wrong about not being in the public eye for long. They maybe just don't last as spokesmen for professional organizations. |
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11 Oct 11 - 09:18 AM (#3237152) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Greg F. Keep the Change," complete with a clever anti-Obama title, was posted Monday to Williams' website, where he has started selling "Hank Jr. for President" T-shirts. It's heavy on the America-is-turning-into-a-socialist-state-and-the-president-wants-to-take-our-guns rhetoric. "I'll keep my freedom/I'll keep my guns/Try to keep my money/And my religion too/Try to keep on workin'/Try to keep on smilin'/I will keep my Christian name and y'all can keep the change," Williams starts. He goes on tho blame Obama for turning the country into the United Socialist States of America. Asshole just keeps gettin' worse & worse. |
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11 Oct 11 - 01:16 PM (#3237288) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: BTNG "Lots of people lack the brain-to-mouth filter, but they usually aren't in the public eye..." For which, to The Lord, I say, thank you.... |
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11 Oct 11 - 04:51 PM (#3237392) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: McGrath of Harlow Not actually having a belief that there is a God isn't atheism, it's agnosticism. Atheism is definitely believing there is no God. I don't believe there is anyone at my front door right now. But that's just a provisional belief that could be dispelled by a ring of the doorbell. |
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11 Oct 11 - 04:59 PM (#3237398) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Bobert This is what I don't get... Fox ain't exactly a news station... It's a right wing propaganda channel... Right... So what's the big deal here??? I mean, is anyone all that surprised at what Hank, Jr. said??? Hey, he's a redneck... And he's proud to be a redneck... The big question here is why Monday Night football ever4 thought it needed a redneck to pitch their product??? Especially with as many black players that are in the NFL... I don't put this on Hank, Jr. as much as I put it on the producers who hired him... He is what he is, gol dang it... B~ |
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11 Oct 11 - 06:36 PM (#3237472) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: gnu And his tune for Monday Night Football was excellent. It was a tune. A song. It got pulled. It was not censorship. He had every right to say what he said. He said it. We heard it. He got fired. Fuck him... he's an idiot. Argue all you want about WHAT kind of an idiot he is but he got fired. I think "idiot" more or less sums it up. Nonetheless, a great tune for Monday Night Football. Said it before, I am gonna miss it. |
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11 Oct 11 - 07:25 PM (#3237487) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Bobert Yup, gn-ze... That's about it... Great tune... Dumb Hank... B~ |
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12 Oct 11 - 09:30 AM (#3237786) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Ron Davies "a whopper". Hitler, Stalin, and Mao, atheists all--look for instance at how Hitler treated any Christians who were not willing to defer to the state in all things--, were responsible for more deaths than anyone else in human history. What part of that do you not understand? Anybody who does not understand that people should be judged by their actions, not their words, should start thinking. |
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12 Oct 11 - 09:59 AM (#3237808) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Greg F. atheists have been responsible for more deaths than anything else in human history. Its more than a whopper, Oh Simple Seeker After Truth, its complete and utter bullshit. Where's the "evidence" and "references" you demand of everyone else for your idiotic & nonsensical statement? |
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13 Oct 11 - 09:52 PM (#3238676) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Ron Davies Well. well. That certainly is an unanswerable argument, full of the calm reasoning and logic you are known for and full of evidence buttressing your case. I would have expected no less from you, And taking up your accustomed place in the gutter too. Situation normal. Some Mudcat atheists, some of the usual suspects being found on this thread, have no problem making frequent aggressive arguments on religion and the religious. Yet for some reason they object to being called on to defend the conduct of some prominent atheists: Hitler, Stalin, and Mao. Gee, I wonder why that is. And I am neither religious nor atheist. Just a modest-- (I prefer that to "simple"---I'm sure you won't mind) seeker after truth. Look, it's simple. Either you can defend the conduct of these three--together responsible for more deaths than anyone else in history-- or you cannot,. |
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13 Oct 11 - 10:05 PM (#3238681) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Greg F. Your initial idiocy, oh Simple Seeker After Truth, and the point under discussion, has nowt to do with your Unholy Triumverate, and less to do with whether I approve or disapprove of their actions. Your statement was, and I quote: atheists have been responsible for more deaths than anything else in human history. Look, it's simple, Simple. Either you can substantiate - with evidence, not bombast - that line of absolute bullshit, or you cannot. |
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14 Oct 11 - 08:46 AM (#3238845) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Ron Davies It's very plain--to anyone who can read (perhaps that excludes some atheists)-- that Hitler, Stalin and Mao were responsible for more deaths than anyone else in history. All three were atheists. What part of this do you not understand? |
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14 Oct 11 - 09:00 AM (#3238850) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Greg F. I guess its not so simple, Simple, after all. that Hitler, Stalin and Mao were responsible for more deaths than anyone else in history According to your statement these three individuals were responsible for more deaths than the combined deaths caused by all other human beings since the creation of the world. Documentation? Evidence? If its so plain, you should be able to provide it. HOWEVER, the Terrible Troika is not the point under discussion, despite your dodging & weaving. Your statement was - one more time, since you apparently have difficulty reading- was: atheists have been responsible for more deaths than anything else in human history. Look, it's simple, Simple. Either you can substantiate - with evidence, not bombast - that line of absolute bullshit, or you cannot. By the way YOU named YOURSELF the "Simple Seeker" - & I prefer the original. |
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14 Oct 11 - 12:13 PM (#3238922) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Greg F. Now this REALLY hurts - Hogan has lots more credibility than Hank, Jr. *** Hulk Hogan tells Fox News he recants former support for Obama By Chris Moody 14 Oct 2011 (AP) Fake wrestling champion Hulk Hogan supported President Obama in 2008, but alas, the honeymoon is over, Hogan said Thursday during a Fox News appearance. "I was a big Obama supporter and kinda, like, believed everything he said he was gonna do," Hogan said on Fox and Friends. "But now that nothing's happened..." Hogan said he was still sore about the president using his theme song, "I Am a Real American" when Obama addressed the 2011 White House Correspondents' Dinner shortly after he released his long form birth certificate earlier this year. "I kinda was a little upset that he didn't ask me permission to use my music," Hogan added. "But the change of heart is that I think I should be president. I know nothing about politics. I think a flat tax across the board would straighten everything out." When told that the Hulk's idea sounds something like presidential candidate Herman Cain's "9-9-9 Plan," he responded, "Wow, yeah well he's not a real American like I am. . . . I've been around, people know me, they know everything about me, they know I'm for real, they know I know nothing about politics. I'll just make decisions on what's right or wrong." |
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14 Oct 11 - 12:22 PM (#3238930) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Donuel Hank remarks do not rank as a remark. It was sound and fury signifying nothing. 1 The 3 stooges had three members not two. 2 Hitler did not play golf. |
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14 Oct 11 - 02:05 PM (#3238970) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: KB in Iowa The 3 stooges had three members not two Or four - Larry, Curly, Moe and Shemp (Only three at a time, but still). |
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14 Oct 11 - 02:09 PM (#3238976) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: gnu Hitler didn't play golf? Not even mini-putt? C'mon... everyone likes mini-putt. |
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14 Oct 11 - 02:18 PM (#3238981) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Little Hawk I don't think Hitler played golf. But I do seem to recall an old newsreel which showed him and Eva Braun and various other members of the inner Nazi circle merrily playing croquet on the outdoor grounds of some lovely mansion. Not that it really matters. |
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14 Oct 11 - 02:23 PM (#3238987) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Wesley S Hitler didn't play golf or you don't THINK he played golf?? Don't you have any proof for these insane claims? We need proof.And don't photoshop it please. |
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14 Oct 11 - 02:35 PM (#3238992) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Little Hawk Insane, sir??? "Insane"???? You go too far! I take umbrage at that. The claim that Hitler never played golf could perhaps be called "a trifle venturesome", "a tad bold", "somewhat overweening" or even "extravagant"....but hardly insane. Get a grip on yourself. ;-) |
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14 Oct 11 - 02:41 PM (#3238996) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Wesley S It's just that Hitler did so many awful things that it's easy to assume that golf was one of them. Didn't he have a weiner dog too? |
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14 Oct 11 - 02:45 PM (#3239000) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: gnu Yes he did but he made wiener schnitzel with them. As is rumoured, he wasn't a very nice man. |
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14 Oct 11 - 02:52 PM (#3239005) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Little Hawk Not fair! Almost all Germans have wiener dogs. It's the most popular breed in Germany...beloved by all. Actually, Hitler had an Alsatian (a German Shepherd dog) named Blondie. He was reportedly very fond of the dog and treated it kindly and praised it a great deal...so much so that Eva Braun grew rather jealous of Blondie. This often happens. I've seen family members really bothered by the fact that "Mom (or Dad) (or my husband) loves the dog more than they love me". It is, however, much easier to love a dog...because the dog's love is so unconditional. It still loves you even if you're having a bad hair day, you don't wash, and you didn't remember to pay the phone bill. It's not that easy with people. They're a lot more critical than dogs are. |
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14 Oct 11 - 04:06 PM (#3239044) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Ed T A good question is was Hitler a closet vegetarian? ""If Hitler was really a vegetarian, he was a sausage-eating one."" ""And of course, even if Hitler had been vegetarian, likely every single other mass-murderer in history was not. If you were keeping score, that would be, Vegetarian Mass Murderers: 1, and then Non-Vegetarian Mass Murderers: 100's."" Hitler was not a vegetarian |
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14 Oct 11 - 04:18 PM (#3239049) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: BTNG Ron's not very good when it comes to producing facts and figures to back up his bombasts....what part of that don't you understand Ronnie boy? Oh and Christianity has produced more self-righteous, sanctimonious hypocrites than any other organisation. |
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14 Oct 11 - 06:26 PM (#3239092) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Little Hawk It has???? LOL!!! Talk about your unsubstantiated bombast! How on Earth would you have any way of knowing or calculating that, BTNG? You're just expressing a virulent and negative prejudice of yours about a whole large section of humanity, a hostile opinion that happens to suit YOU, and that's all. It gives you someone to feel "better than". All those Christians out there have been somehow shoehorned into your personal anxiety closet...one that is probably stuffed so full of similar negative crap at this point that it's about ready to burst. If you were a Christian yourself, you'd be one of the very ones you're complaining about, in all probability, because their error is that they do to others what you are doing to them. |
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14 Oct 11 - 06:40 PM (#3239106) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: gnu So... who will replace Hank? I am thinkin a twist on this tune. It's certainly redneck country rock to qualify. |
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22 Oct 11 - 08:33 PM (#3243269) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: gnu Gee... I haven't seen MNF since the flap... who are they going with? Green Day had a tune that would be great but I can't find it on YT. |
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22 Oct 11 - 09:04 PM (#3243279) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: BTNG It has???? LOL!!! Talk about your unsubstantiated bombast! and the man whose alter ego is a chimp...answers in kind...LOL |
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22 Oct 11 - 10:18 PM (#3243293) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: gnu You just keep diggin there bud... you'll get to the bottom on EVERYones's list if you haven't already. Idiot. Seriously, why do you have to be such an asshole? Yer mama drop you on yer head? |
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23 Oct 11 - 05:54 PM (#3243668) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: GUEST,Ebor_Fiddler Children! Children! |
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23 Oct 11 - 06:04 PM (#3243671) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: BTNG Oh I have already, not that it matters |
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24 Oct 11 - 11:39 AM (#3243978) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Stringsinger Hank Williams Jr. is an alcoholic with little sense. You can't expect anything of value from what he has to say. Don't censor him but let him show the public who he really is. He is unfortunate because his father's talent was not extended to him. Interesting discussion, talent is usually inherited from the mother rather than the father. A Mendelian view of genetics could be taken from this. |
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24 Oct 11 - 11:56 AM (#3243989) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Don(Wyziwyg)T ""Yet for some reason they object to being called on to defend the conduct of some prominent atheists: Hitler, Stalin, and Mao."" It can't be defended Ron, but that's not the argument you little old non sequitur you. They would have done the things they did, whether they were atheists, religious nuts, or believers in the cosmic pixie. They did what they did because they were power hungry maniacs, and those tend to come in all shapes, sizes and beliefs. Don T. |
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24 Oct 11 - 12:07 PM (#3243994) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: BTNG "He is unfortunate because his father's talent was not extended to him." it jumped a generation and went to the grandson |
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24 Oct 11 - 12:15 PM (#3243998) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Look at it this way Ron. You have an obvious dislike and distrust of atheists. If you suddenly found yourself in absolute control of Europe and most of Russia, what kind of treatment would atheists get? You probably wouldn't want to employ them, you might make them second class citizens, but slaughter them?..........NO! You don't possess that peculiar deviation which would permit that. Hitler, Mao, and Pol Pot did, but it had nothing to do with not being religious. It was inside them, as it was with Torquemada, Pope Alexander VI, aka Rodrigo Borgia, and |
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24 Oct 11 - 12:25 PM (#3244000) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Damn! It should finish....... and Hernando Cortez, who were religious. Don T. |
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24 Oct 11 - 10:16 PM (#3244292) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Ron Davies So somebody brought this thread up again. Fine. None dare call it treason or thread creep (gallop) or something similar. OK, Greg F or anybody else: We'll take this step by step, since some atheists seem to be rather slow. Does anybody deny that Hitler, Stalin and Mao were together responsible for more deaths than anybody else in the history of the world? The truth of this is obvious to anybody who lifts a finger to do any research whatsoever. |
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24 Oct 11 - 11:46 PM (#3244312) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: BTNG Just How Many People Has Religion Killed? Kirk Durston, National Director, New Scholars Society A popular urban legend that I've often heard is that religion has killed more people than anything else, so the world would be a lot more peaceful place were it not for religion. The top three largest examples are thought to be the Crusades of the Middle Ages, the Spanish Inquisition, and the burning of witches. Scholars estimate that the Crusades of the middle ages cost from 58,000 to 133,000 lives. The most realistic figure for the Spanish Inquisition puts the total killed from AD1480 to AD1808 at up to 31,912. Finally, records indicate that the number of witches killed may be over 30,000. Some argue that records don't tell everything and suggest that maybe even 100,000 were killed. These three events, totaling over 264,000 killed, are thought to be the largest atrocities perpetrated by one or another form of Christendom. According to University of Hawaii political scientist Rudolph J. Rummel, the total number killed in all of human history is estimated to be about 284,638,000. Of that number, 151,491,000 were killed during the past 100 years. The single largest killer in all of human history is, by far, atheistic Communism with a total of 110,000,000 … over 1/3 of all people ever killed! If we add to that number just two other regimes where religion of any sort was strongly discouraged, Nazi Germany and Nationalist China, the number rises to 141,160,000. Almost 50% of all the killings in human history were committed in the past 100 years by regimes that either actively promoted atheism or strongly discouraged religion. source: (blue clicky not working at this end) http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/NOTE1.HTM |
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25 Oct 11 - 08:20 AM (#3244468) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Ron Davies "back up his bombast" . You were saying? Thanks for clinching my case. |
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25 Oct 11 - 08:25 AM (#3244472) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Ron Davies As I've said more than once, atheism is by far the worst thing to ever happen to humanity. QED |
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25 Oct 11 - 08:38 AM (#3244479) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Ron Davies "inside them'. Sorry, that's drivel. If you don'r realize for instance that stamping out religion is an integral part of Communism, you are in deeper denial than I thought. Try "opium of the masses" for starters. Now, the first question on your pop quiz is: was Marx in favor of religion or against it? Duh. |
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25 Oct 11 - 08:39 AM (#3244480) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Ron Davies "don't realize" |
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25 Oct 11 - 08:54 AM (#3244486) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Ron Davies I've also told you why atheism has been by far the worst thing ever for humanity: it makes it easy for the leader to put himself forward as a God-substiute. Which all 3 of the above tyrants did. Yes, I know Hitler was not Communist. Duh. But it is of more than passing interest, for instance, to note that some of the propaganda techniques used in the 3rd Reich to discredit religion are exactly those used by Mudcat atheists. No more time now. More evidence later if you'd like. Have fun, everybody. I know you will. |
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25 Oct 11 - 08:56 AM (#3244488) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Ron Davies "God-substitute" |
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25 Oct 11 - 09:10 AM (#3244495) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Greg F. How 'bout them Yankees? PS to Simple: You still haven't addressed your statement that: atheists have been responsible for more deaths than anything else in human history. |
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25 Oct 11 - 12:38 PM (#3244590) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: BTNG I used that as an illustration, Ron, not to either confir or deny...I actually thought about putting up the other side of the arguement, I still may...oh and Marx...in my reading he was more ambivelant about religion than anything Vladimir Lenin was, however, highly critical of religion, saying in his book Religion " Atheism is a natural and inseparable part of Marxism, of the theory and practice of scientific socialism" The famous so-called Marx quote about religion being the opium of the people actually originated with the Marquis da Sade and here's the quote in context, what Marx actually said "Religion is, indeed, the self-consciousness and self-esteem of man who has either not yet won through to himself, or has already lost himself again. But man is no abstract being squatting outside the world. Man is the world of man—state, society. This state and this society produce religion, which is an inverted consciousness of the world, because they are an inverted world. Religion is the general theory of this world, its encyclopedic compendium, its logic in popular form, its spiritual point d'honneur, its enthusiasm, its moral sanction, its solemn complement, and its universal basis of consolation and justification. It is the fantastic realization of the human essence since the human essence has not acquired any true reality. The struggle against religion is, therefore, indirectly the struggle against that world whose spiritual aroma is religion. Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions. The criticism of religion is, therefore, in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears of which religion is the halo." read into that whatever you want.....because I know you will! |
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25 Oct 11 - 02:17 PM (#3244639) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: John P Hey folks, on this subject Ron Davies is a stupid troll. Please stop feeding it. |
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25 Oct 11 - 02:30 PM (#3244648) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: GUEST,gillymor There are worse things than being dead,like being confined in small space with an evangelical christian. |
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25 Oct 11 - 04:33 PM (#3244702) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: BTNG you don't agree with his view point, John P, is that why he's a troll? |
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25 Oct 11 - 04:38 PM (#3244704) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: gnu Here's what I agree with.... start a new thread if you cannot stay on topic. A bit of thread drift is fine... adds to the thread sometimes... but this is ridiculous. Ya wanna talk off topic sd infinitum... start another thread. This is becoming rude as a waste of readers' time. |
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25 Oct 11 - 05:28 PM (#3244737) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Ed T Just a theory: Most long Mudcat threads degrade into monologues on god and religion, on hitler related topics,on USA politics, on a conspiracy of some type, or on monkeys and weiner dogs. |
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25 Oct 11 - 05:41 PM (#3244744) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Wesley S Don't leave out the One True Definition of TRADITIONAL English Folk Music. That one's always good for about 500 posts. |
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25 Oct 11 - 07:10 PM (#3244792) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: BTNG Hey...if I have to justify myself...and that is a VERY BIG IF you don't like it gnu, you can do one of two things...don't read OR do something about it..Your choice. That's democracy for you...choice...Oh and in the end who REALLY cares what Hank Williams Jr thinks? He is a redneck, BUT he is entitled to his opinion, democracy at work, again. |
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25 Oct 11 - 09:19 PM (#3244838) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: gnu Like I said before... you are a very poor troll. |
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25 Oct 11 - 09:22 PM (#3244841) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: BTNG you're predictable, gnu, both in your reponses and your political views (which, on top of everything else, are dubious at best) |
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25 Oct 11 - 09:31 PM (#3244845) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: BTNG Oh and my views, I stick to the middle of the road, it annoys both the right and, particularly, the left... |
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25 Oct 11 - 09:40 PM (#3244849) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: gnu Thanks for proving my point... in your own words. |
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25 Oct 11 - 10:09 PM (#3244859) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: BTNG I speak for what's right or wrong, not because some damned political machine or political idiot tells me to. If you can't deal with that then it's you who has the problem, not me Now there's the question. Are part of the problem or part of the answer...? hmmmmm? |
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25 Oct 11 - 10:54 PM (#3244873) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: John P BTNG: you don't agree with his view point, John P, is that why he's a troll? No, he's a troll because he makes the same "atheists are bad" statement in every thread that he can possibly shoehorn it in to. Because he's been proved wrong dozens of times and still keeps saying the same dumb thing over and over and over and over in an attempt to start an argument on the subject. He denigrates people who disagree with him. That's being a troll. Just in case you don't get the other side of that, there are lots of viewpoints that I disagree with. I don't call the writers trolls because of that. |
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25 Oct 11 - 11:25 PM (#3244881) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: BTNG More evidence, Davies? How can you have more when you haven't given any yet? |
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26 Oct 11 - 03:31 AM (#3244915) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: GUEST,999 No one asked me, but that's never stopped me before. God isn't interested. So leave him/her/it out of the discussion. I could care less--although it confounds me how--what anyone's thoughts are about G/g/o/-d's real intentions were/are/will be to do with the conversations the deity gets dragged into. I seldom get pissed off, but I allow myself to once in a blue moon. This is the day. When Thurber wrote about the rabbits, when Mowat wrote about the wolves, when White wrote about the spiders, do any of you really think they wrote about the creatures for the sake of those creatures? The stories were examinations of the human conscience, not examinations of the gods or the things the gods say. Take issue with ideas, not people. As animals living on this planet--one of the higher intelligenced animals that discovered technologies before our fellow denizens--we have demonstrated the ability to be brilliant, heartless and utterly stupid. If the Mudcat should someday be the only remnant of our existence as a 'race', maybe we all oughta think about what we'll be leaving behind. Thank you for allowing me to get that off my chest. PS This is not addressed to John or anyone else. Quite the opposite. I have room in my life for people with different ideas. But fights ain't ideas, they're fights. |
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26 Oct 11 - 07:58 AM (#3245000) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: GUEST,Bill Hank Jr does have the right to his opinion and the network had the right to drop his song as the opening to "Monday Night Football". The problem I have is just today I heard a promotion for "Monday Night Football" and they were still using his song, just without the lyrics. I hope they are paying him for his music... (or that he sues them and wins). |
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26 Oct 11 - 10:14 AM (#3245043) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: BTNG The favourite American pastime, suing the ass off your neighbour because don't like what he/she says, the way he/she looks, what sort of car he/she drives Hank's entitled to his opinion, Monday Night Football's entitled to use any part and/or all of Hank's song, as long as royalties due are paid...that's what democracy is all about, the right to choose what we say or do, but to take on the responsibilities and results that come with the choices. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mudcat isn't that important that humankind will use it as a barometer in the future to view past society/societies. |
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26 Oct 11 - 08:47 PM (#3245348) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Ron Davies Stalin and Mao were both atheists. I note nobody has come up with any evidence that they were not. And of course we can throw Lenin in also, Why not? Join the fun. The BTNG post of 11:46 PM 24 Oct has been contradicted by nobody--including him. The post should have said that Communist China, not Nationalist China, was responsible for most of the deaths (e.g. the Great Leap Forward and other various campaigns led by Mao). But by and large the general tenor is accurate. And of course it is well known that Stalin was indeed responsible for millions of deaths before World War II. I think 100 million is definitely on the high side of deaths caused by Communism (called Marxism by its leaders) but the actual figure absolutely makes clear that any figure of deaths caused by religion is tiny by comparison. As for Hitler, he only allowed a "German church" which in practice meant whatever the state said. He was the head of the state. The 3rd Reich even tried to substiute Hitler for God in the minds of the youth. Remember membership in the Hitlerjugend was made compulsory in 1936 for all boys and girls 10 to 18. One of the songs they sang at Nuremberg rallies: No evil priest can prevent us from feeling that we are the children of Hitler. We follow not Christ but Horst Wessel Away with incense and holy water The Church can hand for all we care. The swastika brings salvation on earth. A "prayer" at Nuremberg went: Fuehrer, my Fuehrer Thou hast rescued Germany from deepest distress I thank thee for my daily bread Abide thou long with me, forsake me not Fuehrer, my Fuehrer, my faith and light. Source: Richard Gruenberger, A Social History of the Third Reich (1991) I'm sorry I don't have the original German so I could check the translation, but I suspect it is accurate. In 1936, a sustained campaign against Catholic monasteries and convents began. One of the choice methods to discredit Catholics was to bring charges of sexual offenses. They then implied strongly that this was extremely widespread and perhaps unavoidable in Cathoiicism---exactly the tactic used by atheist Mudcatters. As I said earlier. Sorry, calling someone a "troll" is not usually seen as a logical counterargument by people who can think--perhaps this excludes some atheist Mudcatters. You will actually have to do some research. Good luck. |
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26 Oct 11 - 09:06 PM (#3245353) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: BTNG editing to suit your own rather dubious position are you, Davies...try re-reading what I actually posted..... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The single largest killer in all of human history is, by far, atheistic Communism with a total of 110,000,000 … over 1/3 of all people ever killed! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- If we add to that number just two other regimes where religion of any sort was strongly discouraged, Nazi Germany and Nationalist China, the number rises to 141,160,000. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- learn to read, Davies, instead of editing, then read my source material, if you can..... |
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26 Oct 11 - 09:29 PM (#3245361) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Ron Davies What are you talking about? That atheism--especially atheistic Communism--is the single largest killer in all of human history--is exactly my position. You evidently agree with me--and don't even know it. Physician, heal thyself. |
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26 Oct 11 - 09:56 PM (#3245366) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: BTNG The opinion you read is the opinion of the author of the piece....I am NOT that author, I merely quoted from the source, so you see I know exactly what I'm talking about.... |
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26 Oct 11 - 10:02 PM (#3245369) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Ron Davies You quoted from your source, and as I said, the source is correct in the main point--that atheism, and particularly 3 specific atheists, have indeed been the worst thing in human history, causing more deaths than anyone else. I still await any contradiction--with exact source and quotes. |
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26 Oct 11 - 10:04 PM (#3245370) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Ron Davies "The Church can hang..." |
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26 Oct 11 - 10:14 PM (#3245371) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Ron Davies "contradicted by nobody--including him." Anybody who can read would realize that "including him" establishes that I realize that you might not agree. That does not change the fact that it was posted by you, and therefore--in plain English--believe it or not--your post. As I said. Perhaps you would like to make the acquaintance of the English language at some point. |
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26 Oct 11 - 10:31 PM (#3245373) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Ron Davies Also, when somebody posts a link or article, it is a reasonable guess--and on Mudcat has usually been the case--that he or she may well agree with the article. People do not usually post articles they completely disagree with--especially on serious topics. The poster is always free to make clear he does not agree with the post--which was not done in this case. |
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27 Oct 11 - 08:30 AM (#3245482) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Greg F. Oh Exalted Simple Seeker Afrer Truth[sic]: Not content with the absurdity propounded in your initial idiotic statement atheists have been responsible for more deaths than anything else in human history. you now compound it with the further nonsensical bullshit That atheism...is the single largest killer in all of human history Is your reluctance to defend this point perhaps due to the fact that you know it to be indefensible? |
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27 Oct 11 - 09:58 AM (#3245520) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: John P Hey, folks, feeding trolls like Ron Davies only encourages them. PLEASE ignore him. If you really want to hear what he has to say on this subject, go read any of the other dozens of times he's wasted everyone's time with his trollery. |
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27 Oct 11 - 10:42 AM (#3245548) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: BTNG Ron "The Troll" Davies. Yes I posted the piece, cut and pasted from the source material, editing out, the unimportant parts, such as that which told me and others how wonderful Jesus is and how he will redeem and save this world and the world's souls etc. blather and blah blah (my one prayer is this: Dear God, protect me from your followers) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The opinion you read, as I said, is the opinion of the author of the piece....I am NOT that author ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I challenge you to defend the proposition that: atheism...is the single largest killer in all of human history (and just the stats you quote don't count, it's only one source, three independent and verifiable sources are required, by academic rules) That is the challenge, defend it, or shut up. |
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27 Oct 11 - 11:30 AM (#3245581) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Wesley S Y'know if you combine the people killed by athists AND believers in a higher power it adds up to - everybody!! The other thing I know is that there are hundeds of these believers vs non-believer threads on the Mudcat. And if you add them all together you solve nothing. Everything and nothing. It's a concept. |
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27 Oct 11 - 12:28 PM (#3245616) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: BTNG "Everything and nothing. It's a concept." arrrr...well...that be the question, bain't it? be it a concept or be it an hypothesis....oi'll be arskin' the vicar about that one bit later...... |
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27 Oct 11 - 08:24 PM (#3245911) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Ron Davies Stalin plus Mao plus Hitler. This is a recording. I note there is still no rebuttal. But some Mudcat atheists, who revel in attacking religion at every opportunity, somehow object when unsavory truths about prominent atheists are brought up. Gee, I wonder why they don't appreciate it when the shoe is on the other foot. Yet again, calling someone a troll doesn't really count as a rebuttal. Sorry. What about that research you were going to do, since it appears you might possibly object to the figures cited in BTNT's article? |
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27 Oct 11 - 08:27 PM (#3245913) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Ron Davies And I'm not in the least religious. Just a fan of a level playing field--and research. |
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27 Oct 11 - 09:00 PM (#3245926) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Wesley S C'mon guys - get a room..... |
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27 Oct 11 - 09:39 PM (#3245938) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: BTNG well let's see the research then...nothing so far and I've just been to a trustees meeting at the church congregation I attend ( I am a trustee, if it matters any) |
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27 Oct 11 - 09:53 PM (#3245944) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: GUEST,Skivee-Guesting in The oft quoted "Godwin's Law" states approximately that in any intra-nets-web discussion, somebody will eventually ramp the flames up until Herr Hitler is mentioned. At that point the Hitler invoker is declared the loser. This thread started out with a mention of a mention of Hitler and now has nothing to do with the subject of Hitler as a rhetorical barb. Have we discovered an inverse corollary to Godwin's Law here? If so, who is the loser? |
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27 Oct 11 - 11:55 PM (#3245963) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: BTNG If so, who is the loser? the person who mentioned (a) Godwin's Law and (b) not knowing they'd gone too far already, the corollary to the aforementioned law |
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28 Oct 11 - 09:37 AM (#3246074) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: GUEST,skivee, guesting in "If so, who is the loser? the person who mentioned (a) Godwin's Law and (b) not knowing they'd gone too far already, the corollary to the aforementioned law." Oh, This is not the first time that great scientific minds such as mine have been mocked.It's often so that the giants are thought mad. Copernicus, Einstein,Godwin,Hank Williams Jr.,Skivee. Time will prove us all geniuses. |
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28 Oct 11 - 10:25 AM (#3246098) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: BTNG you take Mike Godwin far more seriously than Mike Godwin wants to be taken, Godwon's law was meant as a joke, and taking it seriously, of course, proves that you, "skivee", have absolutely no sense of humour, which must be causing Mike Godwin to laugh his face off. If you must quote someone, at least learn something about that person. |
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28 Oct 11 - 10:50 AM (#3246115) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: GUEST,999 Godwin's Law was never a joke. It was more a form of social/internet experimentation. Godwin's own remarks are clear about that. fyi |
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28 Oct 11 - 11:23 AM (#3246128) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Jeri Wikipedia on Godwin's Law Godwin has stated that he introduced Godwin's law in 1990 as an experiment in memetics.From the Usenet FAQs on Godwin's Law As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one.And somewhere in there: Quirk's Exception: Intentional invocation of this so-called "Nazi Clause" is ineffectual.My understanding is it's meant as an observation of what typically happens, you can't deliberately try to to end a discussion by invoking Godwin's law, and it doesn't count when the actual subject of the thread involves Hitler and the Nazis. |
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28 Oct 11 - 12:48 PM (#3246157) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: BTNG I still think you're all taking the law way too seriously and I still think it's a joke FYI |
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28 Oct 11 - 12:52 PM (#3246161) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: GUEST,999 Well, Godwin disagrees with you. |
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28 Oct 11 - 01:01 PM (#3246164) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Wesley S "I still think you're all taking the law way too seriously and I still think it's a joke FYI " Well - THAT'S a typical Nazi remark..... |
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28 Oct 11 - 01:25 PM (#3246177) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: BTNG figured that one would come down the pipe from a member of the politically inept.... the stock answer from a stock loony left script ....right, seriously now...Nazism was/is insidious, evil, maybe the greatest man made evil ever created on this planets. if you never lived through it you have NO idea, (the term Nazi is bandied about far to easily with the sayer generally not knowing what the hell they're talking about) I didn't know a thing except from sanitized versions in history books until I learned at the knee of a neighbour who had experienced it at first hand, he and his family barely got out with their lives. I learned more than I ever really wanted to know,but knowledge is power. so, as the saying goes ..engage brain before putting mouth in gear |
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28 Oct 11 - 04:02 PM (#3246269) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Jeri I think Godwin was taking his math seriously. Not so much, Usenet discussions. I think people are taking this thread too seriously, and people who Try Too Hard are just plain funny. People who React Too Strongly are fairly amusing as well. ...just not for long. As for Hank Jr, he got canned, and I'm fine with businesses in the public eye not wanting their employees or associates to make them look like dorks. |
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28 Oct 11 - 04:03 PM (#3246271) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Wesley S My uncle Jim was a doctor in one of the early Mash units in WW2. His unit was the first medical in the Buchenwald death camp. His first hand accounts were where I learned about the Nazis and what they were capable of doing to a people. |
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28 Oct 11 - 04:35 PM (#3246284) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: BTNG good for you Jeri...being a little over earnest yourself, I note.....mildly amusing at best. Just not for long |
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28 Oct 11 - 04:47 PM (#3246292) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: BTNG this neighbour of mine, half his family disappeared through the gates of Treblinka...... the old one way train ride |
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28 Oct 11 - 05:06 PM (#3246302) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: GUEST,Skivee-Guesting in BTNG, I regret that you were apparently unable to understand that both my comments were intended as humor. I will try to be more obvious in the future. ...Unless you were actually being intensely ironic in your posting; and the inference that I hold the Godwin's Law thing as any real meter of intra=webs-tubes validity is actually you playing along with me. I that case I will try to not be as inobvious as it seems to some but not all that I was being then at that point. Wow, this unintentional trolling thing can be so much fun. |
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28 Oct 11 - 05:48 PM (#3246323) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: BTNG we;ll apparently some folk take it way too seriously as you'll note Me...? I'm laughing at them |
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28 Oct 11 - 06:20 PM (#3246334) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: gnu Keep diggin. |
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28 Oct 11 - 07:41 PM (#3246383) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Jeri When one is in a thread about Hank Williams Jr getting into hot water over a comment he made and you find yourself in a pissing contest over who isn't too serious about the pissing contest (or the thread, or Hitler analogies, or Godwin's law, or who's a doo-doo head), it's a good idea to simply stop, and let those who AREN'T serious keep going. |
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28 Oct 11 - 07:46 PM (#3246385) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: gnu Sorry Jeri. I just get pissed off. I know I should know better but sometimes it just gets up my nose eh?????? |
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28 Oct 11 - 07:56 PM (#3246388) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Wesley S But didn't we decide earlier that Hank Williams Jr was the official doo-doo head of the thread? |
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28 Oct 11 - 08:31 PM (#3246403) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: BTNG eh? oh god don't tell me you're Canadian..... yeah ya right Jeri, why do I let it bother me, life's too damned short, and there are far more important things to worry about than Hitler (he's dead) Hank Williams Jr (he must be close to being dead) Godwin's law is irrelevant, except to those that care, and doo doo heads will...well they'll always be doo doo heads (what a quaint saying) Oh and gnu, thanks for reminding me, I have turn the soil over in my backyard this weekend...digin' just dig it....and smile :-) |
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28 Oct 11 - 08:58 PM (#3246412) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: GUEST,999 S'long as everyone's gettin' along . . . |
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29 Oct 11 - 02:47 AM (#3246507) Subject: RE: Hank Jr's Hitler remark - censorship? From: Jack the Sailor I have listened to most of Han senior's output as Hank and ans "Luke the Drifter" many time. the talent and depth is undeniable. I have heard Hank III in one concert. On one occasion and can't deny that he is a very intelligent and empathetic songwriter. I am very familiar with Hank jr's output. Hank 2 has a distinctive voice. But the only thing that he can with about that resonates with me is his poor relationship with his father. Hank jr's career as it is would not exist without hi dad. So his opinion is worth as much as any man, standing on his dad's shoulder. He called Obama Hitler. He called Boehner Netanyahu. In my opinion he insulted both Americans. And maybe because Boehner is a public crier, Hank insulted Netanyahu even more. |