Musics whose names mean copulation

04 Apr 12 - 12:42 AM (#3333394)
Subject: Musics whose names mean copulation
From: MGM·Lion

On recent threads, it has been remarked that the names jazz [or jass], boogie-woogie, and rock-and-roll, all originally referred to the performance of the act of procreation.

Are there any other examples? Bebop, maybe? Swing? ...?

~Michael~

---

04 Apr 12 - 12:44 AM (#3333397)
Subject: RE: Musics whose names mean copulation
From: MGM·Lion

... or "fugue"? ;-}

---

04 Apr 12 - 12:54 AM (#3333399)
Subject: RE: Musics whose names mean copulation
From: Bob the Postman

The young in one another's arms, eh?

---

04 Apr 12 - 01:14 AM (#3333401)
Subject: RE: Musics whose names mean copulation
From: MGM·Lion

Jive-on, Bob! Or Twist?

---

04 Apr 12 - 01:48 AM (#3333406)
Subject: RE: Musics whose names mean copulation
From: Paul Burke

Folk off.

---

04 Apr 12 - 02:05 AM (#3333409)
Subject: RE: Musics whose names mean copulation
From: MGM·Lion

I have often wondered about samba, rumba, foxtrot...? Anyone any real info on derivation of these?

---

04 Apr 12 - 02:15 AM (#3333412)
Subject: RE: Musics whose names mean copulation
From: MGM·Lion

... and what sort of touching is implied in the name of that form of vertical jiggery-pokery called the Tango, eh?

~M~

---

04 Apr 12 - 03:55 AM (#3333424)
Subject: RE: Musics whose names mean copulation
From: Will Fly

"Nole me tangere" = "Oh, Sir Jasper, do not touch me" :-)

And when does a jig become a jig-a-jig...

---

04 Apr 12 - 04:03 AM (#3333426)
Subject: RE: Musics whose names mean copulation
From: Marje

And as for "hornpipe", that's got to be a euphemism ...

---

04 Apr 12 - 04:11 AM (#3333428)
Subject: RE: Musics whose names mean copulation
From: Acorn4

Modern Jazz would seem to suggest masturbation.

---

04 Apr 12 - 04:12 AM (#3333429)
Subject: RE: Musics whose names mean copulation
From: theleveller

The hokey-cokey? All that sticking it in and out business!

---

04 Apr 12 - 04:26 AM (#3333434)
Subject: RE: Musics whose names mean copulation
From: MGM·Lion

...Ah, well: that's what it's all about!

---

04 Apr 12 - 04:32 AM (#3333437)
Subject: RE: Musics whose names mean copulation
From: Will Fly

Dancing a schottische is doing it while wearing a kilt.

(Just off to dance the Gay Gordons...)

---

04 Apr 12 - 04:32 AM (#3333438)
Subject: RE: Musics whose names mean copulation
From: Musket

I used to like the euphemisms in traditional songs, such as "sporting and playing" etc.

So when I first heard Dave Swarbrick many many years ago sing "The Bonny Black Hare" I thought, well... tell it like it is....

---

04 Apr 12 - 04:37 AM (#3333439)
Subject: RE: Musics whose names mean copulation
From: Will Fly

Did Swarb sing it? I've heard him accompany Martin C on it, but never heard him sing it himself.

(Pedant alert - sorry).

---

04 Apr 12 - 04:51 AM (#3333443)
Subject: RE: Musics whose names mean copulation
From: Vic Smith

The Cajuns have a very fine waltz called The Shagging Waltz. I learned it from the 1984 compilation double album Buttons & Bows - Dambuster Records - played by The Hooligan Band. They pair it with another fine waltz with an equally engaging title The Waltz That Carried Me To My Grave.

---

04 Apr 12 - 05:03 AM (#3333451)
Subject: RE: Musics whose names mean copulation
From: Big Al Whittle

circle of fifths....well I'm f---ed if I understand.

---

04 Apr 12 - 05:10 AM (#3333457)
Subject: RE: Musics whose names mean copulation
From: Jack Campin

The Shag

---

04 Apr 12 - 05:23 AM (#3333464)
Subject: RE: Musics whose names mean copulation
From: Acorn4

"The Shagging Waltz"? -can't really imagine it being done in 3/4 time!

---

04 Apr 12 - 05:27 AM (#3333466)
Subject: RE: Musics whose names mean copulation
From: Nigel Parsons

I just wonder whether the whole premise of this discussion is accurate.
Have dance names been created from words meaning 'copulation'? Or have the names of dances been corrupted to mean copulation?
To quote Wilde:
Dance is the vertical expression of the horizontal intent

---

04 Apr 12 - 05:54 AM (#3333482)
Subject: RE: Musics whose names mean copulation
From: MGM·Lion

I think the derivation pretty well agreed and authenticated in a few cases, Nigel ~~ esp those I named in first couple of posts: jass, rock'n'roll, boogie-woogie, jive...

But even then, I accept that the danger of too unquestioningly embracing the folk-etymology fallacy needs to be recognised, and accept the validity of the point you make and the possibility you suggest.

With many of the others, I agree, the chicken·&·egg question even more obviously rears its head.

~M~

---

04 Apr 12 - 07:49 AM (#3333527)
Subject: RE: Musics whose names mean copulation
From: Nigel Parsons

Sorry, I must be missing something.
I've tried various online dictionaries looking for Boogie-woogie, Jazz, & Jive. None of them show as synonymous with copulation.
Jazz does show a possible derivation from 'jism', but that is it.

I've just checked the first post to ensure it wasn't made on Sunday (April 1st). Where is it that: the derivation pretty well agreed and authenticated

Cheers

Nigel

---

04 Apr 12 - 09:37 AM (#3333577)
Subject: RE: Musics whose names mean copulation
From: MGM·Lion

Chambers certainly shows it as a synonym for jazz.

---

04 Apr 12 - 10:05 AM (#3333589)
Subject: RE: Musics whose names mean copulation
From: MGM·Lion

"The phrase "rocking and rolling" originally described the movement of a ship on the ocean, but was used by the early twentieth century, both to describe the spiritual fervor of black church rituals and as a sexual analogy." Wikipedia article on Rock & Roll

Noun   shag (plural shags)
    A swing dance.
    (slang) An act of sexual intercourse.
    (slang) A sexual partner
                         Wiktionary

---

04 Apr 12 - 10:52 AM (#3333609)
Subject: RE: Musics whose names mean copulation
From: GUEST,Jim Knowledge

I `ad that MtheGM in my cab the other day. `e `ad an old copy of "Music Maker" as well as the "NME" and `e was really scouring `em.
I said, "Morning M. What are you searching for so seriously?"
`e said, "Oh. Morning Jim. I`m just `unting for the names of different sorts of music and dancing that refer to getting the old leg over. It`s on that Mudcat and I thouhgt I`d toss in my three penn`th. D`ya know any?"
I said, " Yeah, easy. "Balling the Jack"!!"

Whaddam I Like??

---

04 Apr 12 - 06:17 PM (#3333786)
Subject: RE: Musics whose names mean copulation
From: catspaw49

Still waiting to find out how many Dick Miles to the Dick Bridge.........That's gotta' be a sight to behold, ya' know?


Spaw

---

04 Apr 12 - 07:30 PM (#3333812)
Subject: RE: Musics whose names mean copulation
From: Dave Hunt

So is Rod Stradling!

---

04 Apr 12 - 07:42 PM (#3333819)
Subject: RE: Musics whose names mean copulation
From: Tattie Bogle

"He blew up his chanter"
"He took out a fine fiddle"
Houghmagandie and Cockalorum

---

04 Apr 12 - 09:06 PM (#3333837)
Subject: RE: Musics whose names mean copulation
From: Gibb Sahib

Reggae

---

05 Apr 12 - 07:37 AM (#3333939)
Subject: RE: Musics whose names mean copulation
From: Charley Noble

"Getting one's ashes hauled"?

I was thinking that the 19th century nautical slang term "rock & roll" meant "let's get on with it," not necessarily a sexual act. But then there there's the plaintive leaving shanty "One more day" where the lady says "rock and roll me easy, one more day."

The meaning may have evolved to a sexual meaning when it was adopted by Black blues singers in the 1930s and '40s.

Charley Noble

---

05 Apr 12 - 09:19 AM (#3333971)
Subject: RE: Musics whose names mean copulation
From: Bobert

"Rock Me, Baby" & "Let's Do it in the Dirt" come (no pun intended) to mind...

B~

---

05 Apr 12 - 09:42 AM (#3333991)
Subject: RE: Musics whose names mean copulation
From: MGM·Lion

As to if and when such meanings evolved or developed ~~ if indeed they did: Nigel's strictures and queries above are by no means to be discounted ~~ it is often difficult to ascertain. Words and phrases will often have a sort of underground connotation among an ingroup [see Peter Wildeblood's 1950s book 'Against The Law' for how that meaning of 'gay', now the primary meaning which has driven out the 'real' meaning, was restricted at the time of the notorious Lord Montagu trial to the homosexual community. Another example ~ my first wife who was a court reporter was amazed in 1959 that I knew the word 'flasher', which was at the time only used by press, police, court officials; but I had learnt it in the army from a fellow National Serviceman who had been a local paper reporter ~~ & so on].

So the point I make is: that it is always possible that a player of the music who is inward with one of these esoteric 'underground' meanings will mischievously, perhaps as a sort of joke on the outside community, use it of the music he has pioneered, so that the word 'escapes' into the broader, 'vanilla' society without its original connotation being suspected.

~M~

---

05 Apr 12 - 10:08 AM (#3334004)
Subject: RE: Musics whose names mean copulation
From: Stringsinger

Jazz originally spelled "jass" was a euphemism. "Rock and roll" also as in my baby rocks me all night long. Bebop and swing refer to musical styles emphasizing in the former, highly sophisticated lines of music based on complex harmonies and swing as an element of incorporating triplet based emphasis on interpreting eighth notes. It is also a component of 12/8 time found in African music.

Jass music originated in the whore houses in New Orleans where the term jass was
part of the vocabulary.

---

05 Apr 12 - 10:58 AM (#3334040)
Subject: RE: Musics whose names mean copulation
From: Nigel Parsons

There is still a distinct lack of any references (with citations) to any of these terms being used with their (supposed) sexual meanings pre-dating their use as descriptions of music styles.

As 'research' I would consider this whole discussion 9to date) to be pointless.

Stringsinger says: Jazz originally spelled "jass" was a euphemism but fails to say what it was a euphamism for.
He also says: Jass music originated in the whore houses in New Orleans where the term jass was part of the vocabulary. without any claim of what 'Jass' meant.

Can we have some attempt at rigour here?

---

05 Apr 12 - 12:00 PM (#3334059)
Subject: RE: Musics whose names mean copulation
From: MGM·Lion

Rigour? Hmm. But I think that good cases have been made above for skank, shag, rock and roll ... I think that comparisons with 'underground' words which are known to have been infiltrated into the mainstream [see my last post] make academic rigour a bit tenuous, & precise citings unlikely.

However, I don't think anyone but you, Nigel, has introduced any concept of 'research' being underway here. Anyone out there collecting material for their PhD thesis?

I thought not.

~M~

---

06 Apr 12 - 08:29 AM (#3334457)
Subject: RE: Musics whose names mean copulation
From: Charley Noble

Geez, Nigel, do you expect us to do all your research?

Charley Noble

---

06 Apr 12 - 08:50 AM (#3334467)
Subject: RE: Musics whose names mean copulation
From: Vic Smith

Wasn't there a song called Why Don't We Do It In The Road? It was recorded by one of those Liverpool popular beat combos around 1968?
Actually, I think I remember reading that the song was written and recorded in all parts by just one of them and then presented to the others as a Fait accompli.

---