BS: Wild Fires in Western US- Good thoughts Please

13 Jun 12 - 05:54 PM (#3363063)
Subject: BS: Wild Fires in Western US
From: JohnInKansas

Multiple large fires

6/13/2012

LOVELAND, Colo. — Hundreds of evacuees in southern New Mexico on Wednesday still weren't sure whether their homes were among the 224 destroyed by a wildfire near the town of Ruidoso.

Fire officials broke the news to evacuees Tuesday night, but emphasized that while crews had surveyed the destroyed properties they had no exact locations to share just yet.

The 36,000-acre wildfire also destroyed 10 other structures. Earlier,
just 35 homes and structures were thought to have been burned.
Heaps of burned metal and other debris were found at home sites hit hardest by the Little Bear Fire, which was 35 percent contained.
"It's truly heartbreaking to see the damage done to this beautiful part of the country," New Mexico Gov. Susana Martinez said after touring the area Tuesday.

With at least 19 large fires burning in nine states, President Barack Obama called Colorado Gov. John Hickenlooper to assure him that the federal government stood ready to provide personnel, equipment and emergency grants for Colorado and other states battling fire. Obama also tried to reach Martinez, but her office said poor reception in the fire zone kept the two from connecting.

The 68-square-mile High Park Fire in Colorado shrouded downtown Denver, some 60 miles south, in a smoky haze early Tuesday. The smoke temporarily grounded the air attack on the fire, but helicopters and tanker planes took to the skies by midday.

The fire was 10 percent contained Tuesday. One person has died and 118 structures have been destroyed or damaged.

Larimer County authorities allowed some residents to return home but issued 25 more evacuation notices near the west side of the fire because of limited escape routes. Among those affected by the new evacuations were up to 100 people at a camp, plus Colorado State University's mountain campus at Pingree Park.

The wildfires in the drought-stricken West have tested federal resources. U.S. Forest Service Chief Tom Tidwell announced late Monday the agency was contracting eight heavy air tankers to increase the aging national fleet to 17.

Across the West:
California: A wildfire that briefly threatened homes in Kern County was fully contained.
Colorado: The 68-square-mile High Park Fire is 10 percent contained. More than 600 people are assigned to the fire.
New Mexico: Nearly 1,000 firefighters and more than 200 National Guardsmen are battling the 56-square-mile Little Bear fire. Containment is 35 percent. More than 500 firefighters bolstered lines around the Gila fire, the country's largest at 438 square miles.
Utah: Two wildfires blackened 4,000 acres in Fishlake National Forest in southern Utah. A third fire believed to have been sparked by target shooting near Centerville, 15 miles north of Salt Lake City, was quickly contained late Monday.
Wyoming: A 4-square-mile blaze at Guernsey State Park is 80 percent contained. Six helicopters and 600 firefighters are deployed. Firefighters contained 95 percent of a 13-square-mile fire in Medicine Bow National Forest and completely contained a 1,700-acre fire in Weston County.
Arizona: A wildfire has charred nearly 2,700 acres but is now 40 percent contained; it began Sunday in the Tonto National Forest northwest of Phoenix. In northern Arizona on the Navajo Nation, a wildfire has burned about 600 acres.

The Associated Press contributed to this report

[end quote]

The total area burning, reported in the summary above, is 537.06 square miles, but the summary only reports the few largest. It was reported in an earlier article that smoke from one 90 miles west of Denver was visible (impressively) in Denver, and similar sightings have been discussed for some of the other fires.

I don't know that we have people likely to be affected by the current ones, but other large areas have shared the same drought conditions (and dead wood from invasive foreign beetles) as are being blamed for the current ones. At least two of the current ones are attributed to lightning, so vulnerable areas don't lack for possibilities of ignition, and fire control resources are already getting thin.

Impressive(?) videos and images are scattered about on the web, and shouldn't be hard to find.

John

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13 Jun 12 - 06:58 PM (#3363083)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US
From: Lonesome EJ

Yes, woke up Tuesday here in Broomfield to the alarming odor of burning.
We are in for a tough Summer out here.

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13 Jun 12 - 08:17 PM (#3363118)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US
From: Rapparee

60 acres burned about a mile from my house a week or so ago. THAT is thought to have been teens playing with a lighter; the cops are investigating. We had two other major fires going at the same time as this one.

The smoke of the CO/NM fires was smelt in Cheyenne, WY this morning.

The 4th of July should be interesting!

Yeah, it's shaping up to be a tough summer.

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13 Jun 12 - 09:41 PM (#3363153)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US
From: GUEST

artbrooks ate all his cookies:-)

The Little Bear fire (so named because that's where Smokey came from) is pretty bad. We have two others that seem to be under control. We had some heavy smoke here in Albuquerque 10 days or so ago from the fire in the Santa Fe National Forest, but it has cleared out now. Severe fire restrictions (both campfire and stove) are in force...I really didn't want to go camping this weekend.

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13 Jun 12 - 10:17 PM (#3363165)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US
From: katlaughing

My son said the Buddhist retreat he was at last summer had been ordered to evacuate earlier this evening. The fire was marching over a mountain straight for them. I am gratefull he is not living in the forest or at the Retreat at this time. He and I had a few tears thinking of all the beautiful, precious critters and their loss. So sad and scary.

Great Spirit, Creator of All, blessed be the rains which come, bringing relief to all.

kat

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28 Jun 12 - 08:21 PM (#3369319)
Subject: PLEASE HELP ASAP
From: katlaughing

Please send good thoughts etc. NOW for my ex, Stan, and his critters. There is a fire in the canyon where he lives which is headed right for his place. He has two sheep, several ducks, dogs, and too many cats and not enough trailers or help to get them out of there before it hits. He is convinced they will all die because there just wasn't any time. This one came up fast and unexpectedly. It's about 20 miles up the road from us..just getting ready to jump I70.

Thank you...my heart is breaking for him and his pets.

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28 Jun 12 - 08:28 PM (#3369322)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US - Good thoughts Pleas
From: Bill D

A woman we know of 'advanced' age moved to Colorado recently so her daughter could help take care of her. She emailed to say they were just ordered to evacuate.

She moved FROM Florida, where there was just torrential rains in the
area she left.

Nature has little sense of fairness....

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28 Jun 12 - 09:41 PM (#3369337)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US - Good thoughts Pleas
From: GUEST

I hope you know that the Federal firefighters involved have NO life or injury insurance. They are considered to be part-time workers. They are especially trained to deal with situations within situations. Their work is dangerous and they are very skilled. The municipal ffs are exemplary. That speaks well of their training and their chief, Rich(ard) Brown.

A model of how things of this magnitude should be run is being demonstrated by the Colorado Springs people. They have been and continue to be the epitome of excellence. Professional, professional, professional. ALL of the first responders are exemplary. The people of CS are a wonder. If you never again have a chance to see the best of what organization, management and caring have to offer, please be able to tell your children about what these people have done. If I never again see 'calm, cool and collected', I will have seen it there, and it is definitive.

The penultimate reporter is, imo, Dean Radice. He has been reporting on the fire and without any "let's get people excited" stuff.

The best thing you can do is listen to and then do what the first responders tell you to do. Situations of this nature get worse--until they get better. The guys and gals will do their best to protect you, but when they leave, maybe you should too.

BM

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28 Jun 12 - 09:49 PM (#3369339)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US - Good thoughts Pleas
From: maeve

Watching from Maine.

Maeve

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28 Jun 12 - 10:18 PM (#3369346)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US - Good thoughts Pleas
From: Rapparee

There's more than 400 acres burning south of town; it's reported that 10 houses have burned. Everyone in certain neighborhoods (I don't know the number, but it's a lot) are being evacuated. The cities of Pocatello and Chubbuck (it's a "cross the street" relationship) have suspended the licenses of all fireworks vendors and banned the use of all fireworks indefinitely. The fire seems to be "human caused."

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28 Jun 12 - 10:41 PM (#3369358)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US - Good thoughts Pleas
From: SINSULL

My thoughts and prayers are with you. That said - get the hell out if ordered to evacuate.
News report says "Take your Ps"\People, pets, paperwork and prescriptions.
SINS

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28 Jun 12 - 10:48 PM (#3369363)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US - Good thoughts Pleas
From: Rapparee

I'm not in much danger -- the house has a golf course in back and the front and back lawns are green and watered. The house is brick and the roof is about four years old and Class A fire rated. Thank God we replaced the old cedar shake roof!

I feel a bit sorry for folks living up the hill from us, in the "high rent district," as there is ONE road into their area. If the hills start burning and we do have to leave we have two ways out on the street and we COULD drive across the golf course (annoying the living hell out of the golfers who would undoubtedly still be playing).

We're more likely to take someone in who's been evacuated. Already some of our friends have done this.

We have our "Grab 'n' Go" box ready.

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28 Jun 12 - 10:49 PM (#3369364)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US - Good thoughts Pleas
From: GUEST,999

Hey Rap. Four hundred acres is handle-able. Even by two engines (pumpers). But, when the guys say leave, go.

One of the great pleasures of my life was meeting you and your missus. You seem to me to be a granite piece of detriment to anyone who's ever been antagonistic to decency.

Keep well, and stay safe.

BM

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28 Jun 12 - 10:53 PM (#3369366)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US - Good thoughts Pleas
From: GUEST,999

The unnamed guest was me.

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28 Jun 12 - 11:27 PM (#3369383)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US - Good thoughts Pleas
From: JennieG

Keeping you in my thoughts....here in Oz we know how devastating fires can be.

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28 Jun 12 - 11:51 PM (#3369387)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US - Good thoughts Pleas
From: JohnInKansas

Although fires in Kansas have been relatively small and are mostly "containable" there has been some loss of structures, and an "Emergency" has been declared by the gov for a few northwestern counties.

Coincidentally, one small town in the state has been recorded as having the "highest temperature in the nation" for the fifth consecutive day (as of yesterday). The record seldom lands in Kansas more than occasionally. Yesterday's high there was 115 F (46.1 C?). "Normal" for the season might be a little above 100F, but 115 is unusual anywhere in the state. I haven't checked on today's report, but the forecast was for "more of the same" recently. (And no rain, badly needed, anywhere in sight.)

John

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29 Jun 12 - 04:03 AM (#3369445)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US - Good thoughts Pleas
From: katlaughing

That's deadly heat, John.

I think the fire up the canyon has grown, a lot. We went to bed about 11p. I just was awakened by the heavy, oily smell of smoke. May there be rain and NO wind, now.

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29 Jun 12 - 04:32 AM (#3369451)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US - Good thoughts Pleas
From: Sandra in Sydney

sending good thoughts

sandra

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29 Jun 12 - 07:07 AM (#3369487)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US - Good thoughts Pleas
From: maeve

I remember fire. Thinking of all who are within reach of the flames.

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29 Jun 12 - 07:10 AM (#3369489)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US - Good thoughts Pleas
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)

Much love and good thoughts to all being affected by the fires, drought and heat.

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29 Jun 12 - 10:32 AM (#3369565)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US - Good thoughts Pleas
From: katlaughing

Thanks, folks. As of this morning the fire had not reached Stan's place as the wind changed direction. Nature is fickle, though. Here's hoping the wind just stops.

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29 Jun 12 - 01:11 PM (#3369631)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US - Good thoughts Pleas
From: Rapparee

1,038 acres and 20 homes, so far. We'll know more after a news conference at 11:30. They made some headway overnight, but the wind is picking up now.

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29 Jun 12 - 02:53 PM (#3369701)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US - Good thoughts Pleas
From: katlaughing

THis one was 10,000 acres and county, mostly desert/rural, but there are at least 50 well heads in line. Th oil companies have shut them down.

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29 Jun 12 - 03:08 PM (#3369708)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US - Good thoughts Pleas
From: gnu

Gosh. Good thoughts fer sure.

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29 Jun 12 - 06:23 PM (#3369807)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US - Good thoughts Pleas
From: Rapparee

Fire is at 1040 acres, 66 homes have burned. If the wind stays down people may be allowed back in three to five days. Fire companies from as much as 100 miles away are helping, as well as the Federal agencies.

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29 Jun 12 - 06:24 PM (#3369808)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US - Good thoughts Pleas
From: ChanteyLass

Brings new meaning to the expression "Safe home." My heart goes out to all of you who are, or may soon be, in jeopardy. Even if you are not in jeopardy, you may be stressed. Good thoughts? Done and continuing.

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29 Jun 12 - 09:13 PM (#3369873)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US - Good thoughts Pleas
From: Janie

I've never lived in "fire country" so really can not imagine....can only read,m watch, and hope all remain safe. My heartfelt thoughts to fire fighters everywhere.

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29 Jun 12 - 09:39 PM (#3369880)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US - Good thoughts Pleas
From: Rapparee

Here are some aerial photos of the burned area. Note the roads -- they used to have houses along them. The orange stain is air-dropped fire retardant.

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29 Jun 12 - 10:16 PM (#3369890)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US - Good thoughts Pleas
From: Bert

Here in Colorado Springs, 17,073 acres, 346 homes, 2 fatalities.

Check The Gazette for details.

and for the map

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29 Jun 12 - 10:38 PM (#3369894)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US - Good thoughts Pleas
From: GUEST,999

"Fire companies from as much as 100 miles away are helping, as well as the Federal agencies."

I posted on another thread that federal firefighters have no insurance on their lives for injury or death. None of the people on that thread gave a shit. Some are posting here. Yes, everyone loves drama, and to be involved with that drama, but it just ain't yer asses on the line.

The situation will not be corrected until 2014 if my memory is correct. No offense, but being close to fires is NOT the same as being in them.

That remark is NOT directed at Rap. One of his brothers is a firefighter. You want to help, send cash. You want to be seen as concerned and helping, post.

######################

I just noticed that that thread is this thread. Take a good look at yourselves. Yes, indeed we love to be associated with drama, and the bigger the better. In the words of the prophet, I'll light a candle for you.

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29 Jun 12 - 11:07 PM (#3369904)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US - Good thoughts Pleas
From: Rapparee

The Rocky Mountain west is burning. The Bridger-Teton Nation Forest has a good-sized blaze going, there's a 1,200 acre blaze in Swan Valley, ID.

The fire season isn't even half over. What the total will be no one knows, but it's already too high.

There are a LOT of people who no longer have a home. If you get a chance, contribute something to help folks out. It doesn't matter where they are -- CO, NM, AB, ID, MT, WY, CA, AZ, UT, OR, WA, BC.

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29 Jun 12 - 11:35 PM (#3369912)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US - Good thoughts Pleas
From: GUEST,999

Ditto, Rap.

Fires are part of what nature--and sometimes arsonists do. The aftermath of situations is ugly and heart-breaking. I have liked you since the first post I ever saw of yours. I do know from where you come. I will never forget you and your missus sitting in the fire hall while I was nodding off.

Reminds me of the old song sung by Kenny Rogers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B39i4o-v5jA&feature=player_detailpage

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29 Jun 12 - 11:51 PM (#3369917)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US - Good thoughts Pleas
From: katlaughing

There was supposed to be a crack team brought in this morning. First Line or something is what they called them. The Best of the Best at fighting wildfires. We used to call them hot-shots, but I think this team is above that even. Last I heard, it was over 12,000 acres. Haven't heard anything about loss of homes. It is sparsely populated btu too close to a small town and just below a huge, swanky settlement on a small mesa.

Whatever they do, I give thanks for their safety. We on the Western Slope never forget the terrible loss of firefighters' lives a few years back when they got caught on a ridge near Glenwood Springs.

No news from Stan since this morning, so I am taking that as a good sign they are still okay and he got a breather re' what to do with the critters, etc.

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30 Jun 12 - 07:14 PM (#3370091)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US - Good thoughts Pleas
From: Desert Dancer

Temporary government workers, like wildlands firefighters, are not offered benefits like health insurance coverage. Even if in the course of a season they work the equivalent of a year's full-time work. And they work multiple years in a row.

Uninsured and fighting blazes: Welcome to the life of a federal firefighter (Washington Post)

petition at Change.org

~ Becky in Tucson

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30 Jun 12 - 07:55 PM (#3370107)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US - Good thoughts Pleas
From: GUEST,999

Becky, thank you..

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30 Jun 12 - 09:21 PM (#3370130)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US - Good thoughts Pleas
From: Deckman

Hang in there RAP ... as if you had a choice. You've a big house, lots of room ... knowing YOU ... you'll bring in lot's of fire victums and do all you can to help them./ bob(deckman)nelson

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30 Jun 12 - 10:22 PM (#3370141)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US - Good thoughts Pleas
From: Rapparee

Well, yes, the offer has been made.

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01 Jul 12 - 07:51 AM (#3370213)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US - Good thoughts Pleas
From: maeve

Friend Bruce- I can only begin to imagine what such huge and increasing fires would be like to live with; how a person can survive days and weeks of firefighting on such a scale. My husband and I are well aware of and grateful for the work and daily risks of neighbors who are firefighters. The firefighters from eight towns who tried to save our home are unpaid volunteers. Your own compassion and experience helped us begin our recovery.

All I have read here strikes me as being born of real concern, and more than a little at that. Sometimes others' responses in a thread can seem to fall far short of what one wishes they could be (and my own posts are never as eloquent as I would wish), but it's not necessarily attributable to a lack of empathy or refusal to take corrective action. I hope we can speak truth here, yet still be gentle with one another.

Our empathy for and gratitude to our neighboring firefighters, to you and your colleagues, as well as for the sacrifices of the amazing and embattled men and women fighting the blazes out West, are usually what we can offer in public. Whether I post to this or any other thread relating to tragedy has no connection to my interest in it, nor is it an accurate indicator of what action we've managed to take in support.

We're here. We care. We will do what we can. If anyone knows of s specific need, please send me a PM. To all firefighters and their families- Thank you from the bottom, middle, and top of my heart. To those in the path of fire, you are not alone.

Maeve

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01 Jul 12 - 01:42 PM (#3370334)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US - Good thoughts Pleas
From: Desert Dancer

NPR has a story on the Forest Service's aging aircraft fleet... Firefighting Planes Battle Wildfires And Old Age. Updates (to the fleet) are coming slowly.

~ Becky in Tucson

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01 Jul 12 - 02:06 PM (#3370343)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US - Good thoughts Pleas
From: Ebbie

Becky's link to the petition to redress the situation is timely - and I signed. Like many people I had no idea that these essential and heroic activities are not covered by insurance. ANY injury sustained by these heroes should be covered and their families should be included as in any other loss.

Any state that fields firefighters and any state that sends them out to other states should insure them as a matter of course.

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01 Jul 12 - 05:03 PM (#3370389)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US - Good thoughts Pleas
From: Rapparee

My relatives have been and are municipal firefighters. My wife's relatives have been hot shot crew, smoke jumpers, and Forest Service (both Federal and state level). I've got good friends who have been and are firefighters. You bet yer ass I signed that petition.

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01 Jul 12 - 06:25 PM (#3370426)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US - Good thoughts Pleas
From: Rapparee

The national situation as of Friday, June 29, 2012, is reported here. Scroll down to see the states involved, including some in the East.

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01 Jul 12 - 06:44 PM (#3370435)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US - Good thoughts Pleas
From: Ebbie

Looked at Rap's fires list. Jehosephat and good grief.

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01 Jul 12 - 06:46 PM (#3370436)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US - Good thoughts Pleas
From: ChanteyLass

Still hoping for an end to these fires. What a disaster. Again, I hope all of you near the fires and your loved ones are able to stay safe.

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01 Jul 12 - 08:50 PM (#3370494)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US - Good thoughts Pleas
From: Desert Dancer

Somewhat of an aside, the damaging (and in several cases fatal) winds that hit back East as a result of the heat are officially a land-based hurricane, or "derecho". More is expected there, too.

~ Becky in Tucson

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01 Jul 12 - 09:32 PM (#3370500)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US - Good thoughts Pleas
From: katlaughing

Spaw called. They've been without power for several days and at least another week or more before they get it back. That's kind of like what he described, Becky. 80 mph winds fortunately no damage to their house. They are safe and coping.

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01 Jul 12 - 09:42 PM (#3370503)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US - Good thoughts Pleas
From: Rapparee

That's good news! I hope everyone "back in the States" is okay.

My MIL was told by an EMT to take 10mg of Ambien the other night and she slept through the storm that hit the DC area. She swears she'll never do that again because she missed the storm completely.

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01 Jul 12 - 11:25 PM (#3370539)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US - Good thoughts Pleas
From: Sandra in Sydney

best wishes to Spaw & family & all who are affected by the fires & weather

sandra

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02 Jul 12 - 04:42 AM (#3370605)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US- Good thoughts Please
From: Nigel Paterson

Thinking of all our American Friends in the fire-affected areas. We have Family in Charlotte NC, but I don't think they are in danger. I wish we could send you some/all of our recent rains. We have an abundance of surface water at present which I'm sure we could spare. I've been trapped in a house fire & cut off by a forest fire in my younger days...gives my empathy quite a large tweak!
       Keep safe...best we can do is hold you in our thoughts & hope you get some rain,
                         Love to All,
                                        Nigel & Ann xxx

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02 Jul 12 - 04:41 PM (#3370929)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US- Good thoughts Please
From: bobad

A beautiful song written and sung by Bruce Murdoch, it is a salute to firefighters everywhere. The Youtube video page also has a link where donations to various aid agencies, helping those affected, can be made.
The Rookie.

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02 Jul 12 - 06:12 PM (#3370973)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US- Good thoughts Please
From: pdq

It just gets worse...


                                                                   another air tanker has just crashed

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02 Jul 12 - 06:43 PM (#3370991)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US- Good thoughts Please
From: pdq

In June, a P2V air tanker crashed near the border of Nevada, on th eUtah side.

This aircraft was built for the Korean War, and...

                                                                                  twenty people have been killed in them since 1987

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03 Jul 12 - 11:06 PM (#3371665)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US- Good thoughts Please
From: katlaughing

There is a neat story HERE of the "other" evacuees near Colorado Springs.

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04 Jul 12 - 07:22 AM (#3371796)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US- Good thoughts Please
From: ChanteyLass

I wish I could send some of the rain we are having today. to Colorado and other affected places.

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05 Jul 12 - 07:24 AM (#3372266)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US- Good thoughts Please
From: gnu

Reort I just read included... The National Interagency Fire Center in Boise, Idaho, which co-ordinates wildfire-fighting efforts nationwide, said 45 large fires were burning Wednesday, including 36 fires in nine Western states. In Colorado alone, three fires have destroyed more than 600 homes and killed six residents.

Read more: http://www.theprovince.com/news/Western+firefighters+hoping+calmer+weather+while+keeping+nervous/6882839/story.html#ixzz1zkJpUbeg

My Ts&Ps for those affected.

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06 Jul 12 - 08:42 PM (#3373056)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US- Good thoughts Please
From: Desert Dancer

Here's a good interview by Hilary Rosen of Tooth and Claw (at PLoS Blogs) on the fires in the Colorado Front Range:
The Perfect Firestorm: An Interview with Author Michael Kodas

Lots more detail here, with several interesting maps, data, and video: Red Zone: Red Zone: Colorado's Growing Wildfire Danger, by Michael Kodas (and a couple others)

From the interview:

I divide the problem into three basic causes. The first is forest management, which would include everything from excess fire suppression, to logging that leaves a lot of slash on the ground, to planting trees. Ways we utilize the forest that make it more flammable.

The second is development, the fact that we have such a huge boom of population into the forest. You have a lot more human-influenced fires. And you also have a lot of resource that has to be protected. With the Healthy Forests Initiative, the Bush plan that was supposed to make the forests more resilient to fire and also help communities protect themselves, they created all these grants for community wildfire protection plans. And communities across Colorado took advantage of these grants to put together these plans. But the implementation has not been nearly as good because the money ran out—it paid for the plans, but it didn't pay for the actual work.

One of the points made by Headwaters Economics, a think-tank in Montana, and others is that the primary funder of a lot of these initiatives is usually the homebuilders association, and what they want is to be able to justify developing farther into the "wooey."

Sorry, what's the wooey?

The wildland-urban interface.

Ah. The WUI. I've never heard it said like that.

Oh yes, it's the best part of writing a book like this, you get to say "wooey" all the time.

Anyway, part of a story I just did dealt with how we've had more than 100,000 people move into Colorado's red zone, which is the most flammable forests, since the Hayman fire in 2002. By the way, the day of the big blowup in the High Park fire outside of Fort Collins was 10 years to the day from the big blowup of the Hayman fire.

You have this development issue. With more people moving into the forest, having fireproof homes doesn't lower the cost. You still have to fight the fires. You've still got power lines and reservoirs and all kinds of other kinds of resources you have to protect.

You still don't want the fire in your neighborhood.

Right. You're still going to be putting it out. Which speaks to the first problem, management. You're still going to be suppressing fires that need to burn, so you're still going to end up with a fuel problem, with a lot of fuel around these communities.

Then the final cause is climate. That's the wild card, and that's the one that came down this year. By June we had 2 percent of normal snowpack in the high country. Streams dry up earlier, forests dry up earlier, the forest is flammable earlier. There are areas of the West and Colorado where it's been documented that the fire season actually starts about two months earlier. Hence the Lower North Fork fire, which was the first or second day of spring and was incredibly volatile.

And back in March, Hilary Rosner wrote this blog post, asking an expert "... what will the lack of snow mean for Boulder and the rest of the region this summer? Are we in for severe drought? Wildfires? Possible rationing of water supplies?": (Snowless) Mountains Beyond (Snowless) Mountains: A Two-Minute Interview with Mark Williams

~ Becky in Tucson

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06 Jul 12 - 09:44 PM (#3373077)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US- Good thoughts Please
From: Desert Dancer

Music content:

After Wildfire, a Cowboy Band Fights to Keep a Heritage Alive
By Jack Healy
New York Times
July 6, 2012

COLORADO SPRINGS — This could be a verse out of some sad old cowboy song. It is a story of tradition and loss, of four fiddling, yodeling lifelong cowboy musicians, and how they lost nearly everything when a fire raged down from the mountains.

The men are the singing Wranglers of the Flying W Ranch, the latest incarnation of a group that has sung Western songs for generations of tourists here at the doorstep of the Rocky Mountains. They are a local institution, one whose Roy Rogers spirit endured long after odes to the open range and lonely sunsets faded from popularity. Each summer night for 54 years, the Wranglers put on their plaid shirts, took to the ranch's open-air stage, and played.

"These are the songs the cowboy sang out on the range," said Wayne Humphrey, 40, the group's bass player. "That's what we stand for."

But a wildfire can destroy a life's labor in minutes. And here in the worst-hit corner of the West's brutal fire season, where wildfires gutted nearly 350 homes and left two people dead, a racing blaze made quick work of the Flying W Ranch, and of the musical tradition the four singing cowboys had helped sustain.

On June 26, hot winds whipped a wildfire north of Colorado Springs into an inferno, doubling its size and sending it sprinting toward the subdivisions and businesses in the foothills. The Flying W was square in its path. A last team of employees and neighbors raced to ferry the ranch's 40 head of cattle to safety, and joined an exodus of residents fleeing the blizzard of ash and smoke.

The four Wranglers had been in downtown Colorado Springs, recording a 1948 song about red-eyed cattle thundering through the sky, when they got the call telling them that the ranch, and their livelihood, were gone.

"It was all gone," said Tony Ludiker, 50, the group's fiddle player. "It was incomprehensible."

Two of the Wranglers — the bandleader, David Bradley, 55, and the guitarist, Zach Lawson, 22 — also lost the ranch-owned homes where they had been living. Not even a fork was left in the heap of ash, Mr. Bradley said.

Nearly every building on the 60-year-old ranch burned to cinders. The stages where four dozen members of the Wranglers had performed over the years. The picnic tables where audiences scraped beans and barbecue from tin plates. The ranch's mock Western village, and the painstakingly recreated theater where the band performed on winter weekends.

The destruction cut deep. The band had played "Orange Blossom Special" and "Take Me Back to Tulsa" in the wrecked auditoriums, the same stages where, as children, some of them had watched their musical idols play the same songs. Mr. Humphrey is the nephew of one of the group's founding members.

"The entire place is like a family," said Aaron Winter, the ranch's sales manager.

But the loss of work and the uncertainty about the future of the Flying W Ranch are starting to tug at the group's ties.

As firefighters and some sorely needed rains help stamp out the last uncontrolled acres of the wildfire, the Wranglers are confronting the same question as thousands of people left homeless by dozens of blazes across the West: What do we do now?

The Wranglers say they need work, and soon, and they have discussed whether they can still hold together as a group. They have only six shows booked this month, including a parade performance and two corporate jobs. In the summers at the ranch, they would perform seven shows a week, sometimes two or three a day. Tourists. Family reunions. Weddings. Corporate retreats.

"It's up to us to find them now," Mr. Bradley said. "It's been tough, and every day we sit around, it keeps getting tougher."

As the ranch's owners decide their next steps, the Wranglers say they are starting to worry. They are typically paid by the show, and they no longer have any dance cards to turn in. Mr. Ludiker recently had a cancerous kidney removed, and he said he worried about the cost of follow-up treatments if his health insurance lapsed.

"I don't want to leave this group," Mr. Ludiker said. "I want us to continue. We've got to figure out how to get steady work."

It has not come easy so far. Though the Wranglers describe themselves as the second-oldest cowboy band in the country, Mr. Bradley said their reputation alone would not bring bookings. Western shows are often scheduled months in advance, he said, and he is only just beginning to reach out to event organizers and bookers, sending out the group's promotional packages. The members of the Wranglers have more than 130 years of musical experience among them, he said, and they always hit the stage "guns a-blazing."

"We do weddings, we do birthday parties," he said. "Anybody who wants to hire a cowboy band."

~ Becky in Tucson

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07 Jul 12 - 11:43 AM (#3373247)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US- Good thoughts Please
From: Rapparee

Gonna be hot all weekend and next week, with low humidity and dry thunderstorms.

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12 Jul 12 - 03:02 AM (#3375164)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US- Good thoughts Please
From: Joe Offer

Well, now it's our turn. It's only a 200-acre fire and it's three or so miles away. The smoke is like a light fog right now, but nobody knows how it will be tomorrow.
Wish us luck.

-Joe-

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12 Jul 12 - 03:14 AM (#3375166)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US- Good thoughts Please
From: Ebbie

May Madame Fortuna smile upon you and your neighbors, Joe.

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12 Jul 12 - 05:06 AM (#3375179)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US- Good thoughts Please
From: Janie

Hope they get it under control and ya'll stay safe, Joe. 3 miles is terribly close.

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12 Jul 12 - 05:25 AM (#3375182)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US- Good thoughts Please
From: fat B****rd

What Janie said.
Charlie.

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12 Jul 12 - 09:11 AM (#3375244)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US- Good thoughts Please
From: Rapparee

There are 281,400 or so acres burning within a couple of hours drive of here. Ten of the twelve fires in Idaho.

Good luck, Joe. I see evacuations have been ordered.

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12 Jul 12 - 09:18 AM (#3375248)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US- Good thoughts Please
From: GUEST,999

Good luck, Joe.

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12 Jul 12 - 07:54 PM (#3375493)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US- Good thoughts Please
From: ChanteyLass

Three miles? That's an hour's walk (at least for someone who is fit). Stay safe.

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12 Jul 12 - 08:27 PM (#3375504)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US- Good thoughts Please
From: Janie

Very concerned for you and your neighbors, Joe. I know you aren't usually on until quite late Mudcat time.

Hope we hear from you tonight.

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13 Jul 12 - 05:12 AM (#3375610)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US- Good thoughts Please
From: Joe Offer

Well, the fire hasn't crossed the American River, and it's not likely to get to our side. From the map, it looks like it's very close to one of our favorite hiking trails in the American River Canyon. When one of our wildflower trails gets hit by fire, it's not worth walking for about five years - and even then, it's sad to remember what was there before.

The fire covered only 200 acres last night, and it was 20% contained and there were 250 firefighters working it. Now, it's 800 acres and only 10% contained, and there are 1,821 firefighters. I drove to a couple of locations nearby to observe the fire, and it's quite dramatic. It's a huge concentration of smoke, and it's spooky to watch the planes flying into the smoke.

The fire is very near the Gold Rush town of Iowa Hill. The town is over 150 years old, and it could disappear overnight. So far, it's safe. They say fire is an essential part of nature, but these fires burn up some beautiful places that are part of our lives here, and it really affects us. We live here because of the beauty of this area, but it's not beautiful for many years after a fire. I've been here ten years, and many of my favorite spots have been lost to fire since then. Still, there are far more spots left. We'll keep following spring wildflowers "up the hill" for as long as we can keep hiking.

An unusual thing about this fire is that although it's very close to us, we haven't seen planes flying overhead. Usually, we'll have times when the planes are flying low above us and very often. It feels like we're in a city that's being bombed. Not this time, though - they must be getting their water from another reservoir. We see and smell the smoke, but there's silence. The lack of the sound of the planes makes it scarier, I think.

-Joe-

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13 Jul 12 - 11:55 AM (#3375730)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US- Good thoughts Please
From: Desert Dancer

This good news came out Wednesday, but I was too busy to post:

Firefighters Prevail In Fight for Health Insurance (NPR from Colorado Public Radio)

When another crew member got hit with huge bills related to his child's birth again this year, Lauer felt like he had to do something. He and some colleagues started a petition.

They posted it online and then went out to fight fires. Within a couple of months 125,000 people had signed it.

The response grabbed the attention of Rep. Diana DeGette, a Democrat from Denver. She drafted a bill that would give seasonal federal firefighters the same health insurance benefits full-timers at federal land management agencies receive. DeGette says it's pretty common for seasonal firefighters to put in a whole year's worth of work in a six-month fire season.

"Some of these firefighters have as many as 850 hours of overtime every fire season," she says. "And they have so many health risks, because they're out there on the front lines."

Just hours after the bill was introduced Tuesday, President Obama took action himself. He ordered federal agencies to start offering seasonal firefighters the same health benefits year-round federal employees get.

~ Becky in Tucson

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13 Jul 12 - 01:23 PM (#3375780)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US- Good thoughts Please
From: gnu

At least that is some good news. Thanks for the update.

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13 Jul 12 - 01:43 PM (#3375786)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US- Good thoughts Please
From: Bob the Postman

Lots of smoke here in southeastern BC. Some say it's from Colorado, others say Russia.   Forest fire song by homeboy Tim Hus: Mountain Fire . Sample here.

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13 Jul 12 - 02:42 PM (#3375810)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US- Good thoughts Please
From: maeve

Thank you for posting that update, Becky.

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13 Jul 12 - 02:57 PM (#3375821)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US- Good thoughts Please
From: GUEST,999

Thanks for posting that link, Becky. I signed that petition and I'm glad to know it did some good.

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13 Jul 12 - 02:59 PM (#3375825)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US- Good thoughts Please
From: Stringsinger

A good thought would be to stop global warming. Also, stop calling it climate change.
Things are heating up and we are frogs in the boiling water, thanks to the energy company crooks.

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13 Jul 12 - 07:20 PM (#3375917)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US- Good thoughts Please
From: Janie

Relieved to hear you feel pretty safe from the fire, Joe.

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13 Jul 12 - 08:43 PM (#3375945)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US- Good thoughts Please
From: ChanteyLass

I, too, signed that petition. I am glad that the seasonal firefighters will now get health insurance.
Again, those of you near the fires, stay safe!

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13 Jul 12 - 08:58 PM (#3375951)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US- Good thoughts Please
From: Rapparee

I too signed it.

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13 Jul 12 - 11:10 PM (#3376007)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US- Good thoughts Please
From: Sandra in Sydney

good luck to all in fire affected areas.

sandra

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15 Jul 12 - 09:54 PM (#3376811)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US- Good thoughts Please
From: Joe Offer

Well, the latest report shows progress - the fire is up to 2,400 acres (almost four square miles), but it's now 30 percent contained. There are 1,963 firefighters working the fire. The fire is still on the other side of the American River from me, so I still feel safe. If it crosses the river, it will go up the side of the canyon very quickly - and then all bets are off (but it still has a railroad and Interstate 80 to cross after that, so I'm not worried). One house has been lost, and three outbuildings.

There are all sorts of exotic aircraft flying overhead. I rush outside every time I hear one, but I miss most of them. There's a huge KC-10 (DC-10) working the fire. It's really strange to see a big airliner fly low over the house. I wonder how it gets its water, whether it has to land to get water.

Here's the latest list of equipment and personnel:

Total Fire Personnel: 1,963 personnel
Engines: 165 engines
Fire crews: 55 crews
Airtankers: 2 air tankers
Helicopters: 14 helicopter
Dozers: 19 bulldozers
Water tenders: 17 water tenders

11 injuries to firefighters have been reported,

There was lots of smoke this morning, and it had spread a long way. It has cleared up this afternoon, which makes for a more dramatic smoke plume coming from the fire itself.

The Family Gardener has me doing irrigation work, and it's darn hot. Guess I shouldn't whine. The firefighters have it much worse.


-Joe-

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15 Jul 12 - 10:03 PM (#3376812)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US- Good thoughts Please
From: Rapparee

It RAINED!!! Today and yesterday!!!!! Not much, but anything helps. Rain!!!!!!

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16 Jul 12 - 01:00 AM (#3376852)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US- Good thoughts Please
From: katlaughing

Here, too, Rapparee! It smells so good!

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16 Jul 12 - 10:34 AM (#3377019)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US- Good thoughts Please
From: Sandra in Sydney

wishing you the right amount of rain.

We've had recent reports that our next fire season will be big - our recent flooding rains are building up the trees & scrub for an 'Unprecedented' bushfire threat

This year's bushfire season is expected to be the worst in 40 years due to the widespread rain across most of New South Wales.

The Rural Fire Service has held a briefing with volunteers and staff at West Wyalong to discuss preparations for what is expected to be a 'grim' summer.

The Assistant Commissioner Dominic Lane says the state's central and far west are facing a high risk of bushfires due to the grass growth.
He says the threat is 'unprecedented'.

"There is significant potential, in fact more potential than we've seen at least for a generation," he said.

"In fact you have to go back to the mid 1970s to see this grass growth, particularly as our representatives from the north western part of the state were saying.

"Up around Bourke, and the like, people can't remember fuel loads in their lifetime like this."

West Wyalong is also considered to be a potential hot spot because of the major flooding earlier this year.

Mr Lane says there is a lot brigades can do to prepare for summer.

"Increase our hazard reduction planning, to go through a communications and operational exercise as a training event to lead up to the summer and generally start preparing our brigades for what could be potentially a very dangerous summer," he said.

"We know without a doubt that the increased risk is something that we haven't seen for a long time."

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16 Jul 12 - 10:50 AM (#3377024)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US- Good thoughts Please
From: Ebbie

One of the things they advise us to do, SiS, is to clear all brush and bushes surrounding our homes so that, at the very least, it will slow a wildfire. Knowing your fire season will be "grim" but is still several months off, can that be done in Australia?

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16 Jul 12 - 08:41 PM (#3377372)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US- Good thoughts Please
From: Sandra in Sydney

wot! clear those beautiful trees & bushes around their homes??? (irony alert)

Many folks love to live surrounded by trees & bushes - some keep their gardens back at appropriate distances, check their roofs etc. Others don't worry, & suffer. Some who look after their properties properly also get burnt when the wildfires roar in.

The late Ozcatter Rowan often posted on the bushfire threads about our vegetation & fire fighting. Check his numerous posts if you want more info.

I mentioned this article to a neighbour who has been to the Blue Mountains (100k west of CBD) recently (a prime fire spot - well, it is ridges & valleys & national parks & lots of other greenery!) In the past 3 or 4 decades many suburbs & villages have been built there & he says it's the greenest he's seen it for many years.

sandra

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16 Jul 12 - 09:46 PM (#3377410)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US- Good thoughts Please
From: Rapparee

And some more rain today!!! Hurrah!!

Here's some information on defensible space.

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17 Jul 12 - 12:09 AM (#3377459)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US- Good thoughts Please
From: Sandra in Sydney

very good article, Rap

google search on protecting homes in bushfire areas

but folks in both our countries still lose their homes & lives by either not following the guidelines, or by wildfire.

Way back in 1987 I was visiting Adelaide, South Australia, & was taken by my hosts on a tour of The Hills an area that was badly burnt in recent years. Some survivors left their burnt sites, others rebuilt on the site, some wisely, some in the exact same spot.

They showed me a burnt out home & pool whose owner they had spoken to before the fire. He said he'd be OK, he had pumps, hoses & lots of water. Unfortunately he forgot that he might lose power & died as he had no back up power.

sandra

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17 Jul 12 - 10:16 AM (#3377665)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US- Good thoughts Please
From: Rapparee

Sometimes you gotta run and count your losings later. Like that song says, "Ya gotta know when to fold 'em, know when to walk away, know when to run."

By Thursday we'll be back in the "explosive fire possible" status, but the respite is nice.

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17 Jul 12 - 11:00 AM (#3377710)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US- Good thoughts Please
From: Stringsinger

The problem is "global warming deniers" who are not listening to reputable scientists,
who have no controversy on this topic. Most scientists agree unanimously that we have to
change our energy policies or we will see fires at our doorstep no matter where we live.

Firefighters who battle the blazes, heroic though they may be, are the Sisyphus
pushing the boulder up the side of a mountain.

Good thoughts would be to challenge the energy industries, coal, fossil fuels, frackers, and carbon dioxide that they produce aiding in creating these problems.

Watch the fires go up along with the XL pipeline.

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17 Jul 12 - 08:14 PM (#3378027)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US- Good thoughts Please
From: Desert Dancer

Here's an interesting map of a decades-worth of U.S. fires...hot stuff.

In terms of momentary intensity, I see that the hottest spot is marked in central Arizona (northwest of Phoenix), in late June 2005. I remember that one.

~ Becky in Tucson

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18 Jul 12 - 11:17 AM (#3378335)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US- Good thoughts Please
From: Sandra in Sydney

amazing map, thanks for posting it, Becky

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13 Sep 12 - 09:10 PM (#3404268)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US- Good thoughts Please
From: katlaughing

My beloved Casper mtn. is on fire...the whole East end. So far, 36 homes lost, 24 square miles on fire/burnt.

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18 Sep 12 - 03:26 PM (#3406898)
Subject: RE: BS: Wild Fires in Western US- Good thoughts Please
From: GUEST

LafKat

It is called "fire ecology."

A part of the natural course of nature in the western United States.

http://cyber-west.net/cw17/fire1.html

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

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