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18 Jun 12 - 09:51 AM (#3364936) Subject: BS: Honest Talk About Sex. From: saulgoldie My guess is that if you don't use the words, the concept doesn't exist, right? Vagina Saul |
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18 Jun 12 - 10:21 AM (#3364946) Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex. From: Bobert Yup... We no longer do science... B~ |
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18 Jun 12 - 10:32 AM (#3364950) Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex. From: GUEST,999 I trust she'll take that to court and she'll win. Out of curiosity, and since I don't want to be banned from posting by using the V word, which stupid cunt initiated that action? |
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18 Jun 12 - 10:35 AM (#3364952) Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex. From: Bobert Won't win with the current batch of clown judges, brucie... They don't do "law" anymore... They only rubber stamp the right wing wackos... B~ |
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18 Jun 12 - 11:11 AM (#3364978) Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex. From: Tunesmith In Britain - or at least England - I believe that's it's against the law to engage he sexual activity if one is under 16 years of age. This interests me because to break a law, one must be made aware of that law. Now, are school kids - at school - told about this? It's routine for kids to be told not to hit other children, or steal, or bully etc. But are kids told that it's wrong - i.e. against the law - to indulged in under 16 sex? |
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18 Jun 12 - 11:15 AM (#3364982) Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex. From: Jack the Sailor I'm sure that not one child in the UK knows about that law before the teacher tells them. |
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18 Jun 12 - 11:44 AM (#3364997) Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex. From: gnu UNREAL! |
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18 Jun 12 - 11:51 AM (#3364999) Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex. From: Musket The minimum age of culpability is lower than the age of consent, as you might expect. In many cases that is appropriate, the alternatives being either lowering consent to culpability or culpability up to consent. Either way is a recipe for either lawless untouchable 15 year olds or a new meaning to the word Lolita. If teachers teach them, they run the risk of disapproving parents and meddlesome priests. If they don't, UK teenage pregnancy statistics continue to shame us. The only thing we can say is that curiosity about sex is hard wired into us, so doing nothing is not an option. Regarding use of the word vagina in debate; How did you guys ever claim to run the world's affairs for most of the 20th century? |
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18 Jun 12 - 11:58 AM (#3365003) Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex. From: John MacKenzie Bill Clinton wouldn't have banned her. He'd have given her a cigar! ¦¬] Havana Vagina, what's the difference? |
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18 Jun 12 - 12:03 PM (#3365006) Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex. From: Jack the Sailor Apparently in Michigan it is OK to use the word "vagina" in debate. But this woman's phrasing was a little more lewd and personal than a clinical use of the word. |
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18 Jun 12 - 12:09 PM (#3365010) Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex. From: Bill D You must remember that she was censured by Republicans... who now include the most conservative, uptight, controlling and generally reactionary folks in the country. Shades of Victorianism and Anthony Comstock! |
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18 Jun 12 - 12:10 PM (#3365012) Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex. From: Nigel Parsons As to teaching the children what it is they are restricted from, I'm reminded of The Mikado (were I not to Ko-Ko plighted) "This, Ah, this., This is what I'll never do." |
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18 Jun 12 - 12:16 PM (#3365022) Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex. From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Don't matter much how she phrased it if the objection was to the word itself. Given that all the world's male politicians came out of one, and according to what we hear on the news, most of them spend a large proportion of their time trying to get back into a number of them, you would think they would want to know what to call them. Don T. |
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18 Jun 12 - 12:25 PM (#3365024) Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex. From: GUEST,999 Many years back a teacher informed me that my daughter had referred to what the teacher was calling 'private area' as vulva/vagina. I assured the teacher that it wouldn't happen again. I told her I'd teach my daughter all the words I knew for them. The teacher went pale and that was the end of that. Tough times for a kid in Grade 1 or 2. |
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18 Jun 12 - 12:29 PM (#3365025) Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex. From: Bobert Shades of Taliban, too, Bill.. B~ |
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18 Jun 12 - 01:13 PM (#3365042) Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex. From: kendall OK, everyone, back to the dark ages! |
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18 Jun 12 - 01:14 PM (#3365043) Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex. From: kendall I'm reminded of that old question "Why are there so many more horses asses than horses?" |
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18 Jun 12 - 01:25 PM (#3365049) Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex. From: Megan L My youngest niece is a nurse when her daughter was at nursery school the little boys (as they will do) discovered the word willy and were driving the teacher crazy since they were out on a trip into town. My niece happened to be nearby when the teacher said very sternly "There will be no more talk of willies I will not have it." to which a little but very clear voice piped up"Please miss can we call it a penis." |
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18 Jun 12 - 01:41 PM (#3365061) Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex. From: gnu Don... "Given that all the world's male politicians came out of one..." I dunno about some of them. |
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18 Jun 12 - 02:01 PM (#3365068) Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex. From: Bert Gnu, I was going to a say, 'except Republicans' in answer to Don. |
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18 Jun 12 - 02:37 PM (#3365090) Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex. From: GUEST,Eliza My late, very elderly friend made me die when she once mentioned her 'Mary'. It took a few seconds to work out what she meant. |
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18 Jun 12 - 03:06 PM (#3365109) Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex. From: Bill D I was only in about the 4th-5th grade when I realized I didn't much like bewildering euphemisms. I had recently moved for about the 5th time in 5 years, and could not understand why the kids in new locations used different words..... and not the same ones my parents used. Old story about Harry Truman in the White House garden asking for more 'manure' around some plants... Bess Truman was asked to get the president to say fertilizer instead of manure and she replied, 'You have no idea how long it took me to get him to say manure.' Those legislators ought to think about it... |
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18 Jun 12 - 07:46 PM (#3365219) Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex. From: Bugsy It amazes me that in the US they can ban a woman for saying "Vagina" but they think nothing of showing a politician blowing his own brains out on National TV! "Only in America?" Cheers Bugsy |
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18 Jun 12 - 07:51 PM (#3365221) Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex. From: Jeri I haven't seen, or even heard of the latter. The former is just stupid, but it's par for the course these days. |
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18 Jun 12 - 09:02 PM (#3365239) Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex. From: gnu Jeri... stop making sense! Yer confusin some of the rabble. |
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18 Jun 12 - 09:28 PM (#3365252) Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex. From: Jeri If I'm making sense, maybe I'm confused too. ;-) Bugsy, I'm curious because I really don't know what you're talking about, or who. |
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18 Jun 12 - 09:31 PM (#3365253) Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex. From: Bugsy It was Budd Dwyer, Jeri. I won't make a "blick" for it but if you Google "us politician shoots himself on national tv" you'll see the link. But they still fuzz out bum cheeks and the like on "Survivor" Cheers Bugsy |
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18 Jun 12 - 09:37 PM (#3365257) Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex. From: Bobert What next??? They gonna do away with penises??? Hmmmmmm??? No virgins and no penises... WTF??? Gonna be purdy boring after the wackos take over... LOL... B;~) |
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18 Jun 12 - 10:21 PM (#3365276) Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex. From: Bobert Hey, let's just do a George Carlin purge and get rid of 'um all??? And right after that we'll do the chastity belts... No, better than than that... We'll sterilize everyone... Yeah... We'll just sterilize everyone... (But, Bobert, people still be out screwin'...) Okay, we'll Bobbit-ize all males at birth... That make you happy??? (How the hypocritical Republicans gonna get into trouble with no dicks???) They will figure it out... They are good at that... B~ |
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18 Jun 12 - 11:53 PM (#3365299) Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex. From: Richard Bridge Bobster, they will talk their way out of it. They are cunning linguists. |
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19 Jun 12 - 01:11 AM (#3365313) Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex. From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Don T: "Don't matter much how she phrased it if the objection was to the word itself. Given that all the world's male politicians came out of one, and according to what we hear on the news, most of them spend a large proportion of their time trying to get back into a number of them, you would think they would want to know what to call them." I don't know if they can spell them or even pronounce it right...they don't have to.....they're all bookmarked for themselves on their laptops! GfS |
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19 Jun 12 - 01:51 AM (#3365319) Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex. From: Don Firth When Republicans want to shut someone up, they're not averse to hitting someone below the belt...... Don Firth |
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19 Jun 12 - 04:23 AM (#3365347) Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex. From: JohnInKansas (How the hypocritical Republicans gonna get into trouble with no dicks???) But Bobert, haven't you figured out that modern Republicans don't have sex (at least at home?) and don't care about doing it. They're only concerned about what everybody else, or anybody else might be doing, and want to make sure everyone else stops doing it. (Besides, if people are allowed to talk about it, someone might tell their spouses.) John |
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19 Jun 12 - 04:26 AM (#3365350) Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex. From: John MacKenzie Most politicians talk like one. |
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19 Jun 12 - 04:30 AM (#3365351) Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex. From: GUEST,keith A of Hertford In Britain - or at least England - I believe that's it's against the law to engage he sexual activity if one is under 16 years of age. No child has ever been prosecuted. The law is to protect the child and punish abusers. |
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19 Jun 12 - 04:35 AM (#3365353) Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex. From: Nigel Parsons Given that all the world's male politicians came out of one, Has no male politician been born by Caesarean section (Caesar excepted of course) :) |
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19 Jun 12 - 04:47 AM (#3365356) Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex. From: Richard Bridge Offences are in many cases committed under the Sexual Offences Act 2003 if a person does at an age below 18 does an act which would be criminal if done by a person over 18 (but the penalties are different) see http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/42/section/13 Just in case anyone wanted to know rathern than pontificate blindly. |
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19 Jun 12 - 05:11 AM (#3365365) Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex. From: GUEST,Keith Not pontificating blindly Richard. I just wanted to dispel the impression given that 2 teenagers in a consensual relationship risked prosecution in Britain. They do not. There have been cases of abusive behaviour by a young teen against a much younger child which have led to criminal cases. Is it OK to say that without being a lawyer? Is that pontificating blindly? |
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19 Jun 12 - 05:16 AM (#3365366) Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex. From: GUEST,keith A Describing someone as Far Right just because they sometimes disagree with you or Jim Carroll (see "why" thread) is a real example of pontificating blindly. Perhaps you would return to that thread and address it. |
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19 Jun 12 - 05:46 AM (#3365372) Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex. From: gnomad "...to break a law, one must be made aware of that law" (well upthread) Care to comment on that one anybody? (preferably someone who knows, rather than one who, like me, thinks they know). As I understand it, ignorance of the law is no defence, though it might be cited in mitigation, and it would be damnably hard to prove even if it were a defence. |
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19 Jun 12 - 08:23 AM (#3365403) Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex. From: Richard Bridge You are right gnomad it is not a defence. |
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19 Jun 12 - 08:24 AM (#3365405) Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex. From: Richard Bridge Keith - go and look up the section. It specifically confirms the existence of the offence(s) for which you say there is no risk of being prosecuted. |
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19 Jun 12 - 08:42 AM (#3365407) Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex. From: GUEST,Keith I am sure it does, but have any teenagers in a consensual relationship ever been prosecuted. If not, go and look up my post and you will find it is accurate. Now, please correct your character assassination of me on the "Why" thread. |
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19 Jun 12 - 09:58 AM (#3365433) Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex. From: Tunesmith Regarding knowledge of the law. Again, children have it drilled in to them at school that stealing, bullying, hitting people is wrong/unlawful, but - even in sex education classes ( which I don't think are complusory) - are children told that they are breaking the law having underage sex? BTW, I heard of a case recently were a 13 year old lad has been put on some sort of sex register for showing his willy to his 9 year girl cousin! |
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19 Jun 12 - 02:52 PM (#3365535) Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex. From: Ebbie "...if you Google "us politician shoots himself on national tv" Bugsy I doubt VERY much that the suicide was shown on *national* television, Bugsy. The incident is available for viewing because - and ONLY because - it happened during a televised press conference in Pennsylvania. NOT on national television. You might like to set the record straight. |
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19 Jun 12 - 05:18 PM (#3365574) Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex. From: Richard Bridge So there you go Keith. You could have checked yourself but chose not to. |
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19 Jun 12 - 05:43 PM (#3365582) Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex. From: Bee-dubya-ell Odd that in this entire thread nobody has bothered to post the full statement Lisa Brown made. Some folks seem to be laboring under the impression that, because "vagina" is a clinical term, it was uttered in the context of a clinical statement and the "offended" legislators were reacting only to that one word. Not so. Here is what Ms Brown said: "Finally, Mr. Speaker, I'm flattered that you're all so interested in my vagina, but 'no' means 'no.'" To me, that statement is snide, smarmy, insultive, combative, and has no more business being uttered in a legislative body than any other snide, smarmy, insultive, and combative statement. The fact that the word "vagina" was used in it is far from the whole picture. The woman was being a smart-ass. If she had expressed her opinion in a more moderate tone, it probably wouldn't have mattered to anyone whether or not she used the word "vagina". If a legislator were to tell a colleague to "copulate with a rolling doughnut", should he be excused on grounds that "copulate" is a nice scientific term? No, because the intent is obviously to deliver an insult, and I don't see a lot of difference in intent between that statement and what Ms Brown said. |
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19 Jun 12 - 05:48 PM (#3365584) Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex. From: Jeri The whole article is here: A US lawmaker who says she was barred from speaking in the Michigan House because Republicans objected to her saying the word "vagina" during debate over anti-abortion legislation performed The Vagina Monologues on the Statehouse steps — with a hand from the author.What baffles me is how anyone can tell another elected official they aren't allowed to speak. It doesn't seem legal to me. It seems like it would be an easy step to "you used the word 'rights' and I find that offensive, so you are in a 'time out'." |
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19 Jun 12 - 05:50 PM (#3365585) Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex. From: gnu Ignorance of the law is no excuse... OVER the age of majority. Does that make difference to the debate? |
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19 Jun 12 - 07:57 PM (#3365643) Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex. From: Bugsy Apologies Ebbie, It was not "National TV" but Several TV Stations across Pennsilvania (click link to Wikipedia and see "Aftermath) who taped the incident and aired it on their midday news. I don't know which is worse, live telecast or taping and broadcasting later. CHeers Bugsy |
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19 Jun 12 - 08:25 PM (#3365653) Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex. From: Bobert Here's the deal... The fact the Ms. Brown said "my vagina" isn't an issue... She represents women and her 1st person reference doesn't mean that she was talking about "her" vagina but vaginas in general... No matter... It is fucked up (no pun intended or inferred)... B~ |
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20 Jun 12 - 01:49 AM (#3365744) Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex. From: Big Al Whittle Beedub.... You see no difference between telling someone to have sex with a rolling doughnut, and a smart witty riposte. I cannot help but think you are somewhat partisan. |
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20 Jun 12 - 02:45 AM (#3365755) Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex. From: Keith A of Hertford Richard. So there you go Keith. You could have checked yourself but chose not to. I did not need to. If two young teens in a consensual relationship had ever been prosecuted for it, I knew that I would have remembered. And I was right. No such have ever been prosecuted have they Richard? |
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20 Jun 12 - 03:34 AM (#3365766) Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex. From: Keith A of Hertford Richard. Independent Jan 1998. Sean, 12 last month, was allowed to miss school to be at the bedside of his 16-year-old girlfriend, Emma Webster, her parents, Ray and Shirley, and Sean's mother, Theresa. The pair, who are neighbours at Sharnbrook, Bedfordshire, were 11 and 15 when Emma became pregnant. Any prosecutions? |
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20 Jun 12 - 03:36 AM (#3365768) Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex. From: Keith A of Hertford LUCY HAGAN Last Updated: 12 Jan 2011 BOY dad Alfie Patten yesterday admitted he does not know how much nappies cost — but said: "I think it's a lot." Baby-faced Alfie, who is 13 but looks more like eight, became a father four days ago when his girlfriend Chantelle Steadman gave birth to 7lb 3oz Maisie Roxanne. He told how he and Chantelle, 15, decided against an abortion after discovering she was pregnant. |
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20 Jun 12 - 04:45 AM (#3365786) Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex. From: Nigel Parsons Bobert: It is fucked up (no pun intended or inferred)... How can you know what inferences we may take from your comment? I think your making the common error of confusing 'infer' with 'imply'. (as we seem to be discussing the use of 'bad' language) Cheers (no offence intended!) Nigel |
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20 Jun 12 - 06:20 AM (#3365814) Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex. From: Big Al Whittle Nigel can you explain how one would infer a fuck without implying it? |
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21 Jun 12 - 05:15 AM (#3366163) Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex. From: Nigel Parsons BAW: Nigel can you explain how one would infer a fuck without implying it? The implication in a statement is something which the speaker/writer has put there with the intention it will be understood. The inference in a statement is something read into it by the hearer/reader, which may, or may not, have been the intention of the speaker/writer. |
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21 Jun 12 - 11:45 PM (#3366501) Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex. From: Ebbie In other words, you imply, I infer. I imply, you infer. |