To Thread - Forum Home

The Mudcat Café TM
https://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=15265
20 messages

Lyr ADD: Jack Ashton (Keith Marsden)

13 Nov 99 - 10:35 AM (#135439)
Subject: Jack Ashton by Keith Marsden
From: Barbara

I've been listening to this song, on Finest Kind's second CD as I come down to the wire on the Peter Pan costumes (Darn that crocodile, anyway!) and there is one line that I can't understand. I was hoping someone like Graham Pirt or someone else on his side of the pond could put me out of my misery.
If no one else does, I will post you the rest of the words, (by Thanksgiving). Here is the part of the verse I don't get:

Well, we nearly broke our necks
Playing soccer on the wreck(s)
And [bowling?] with a [corkee? cork, he?] could be gory,

Can you help?
Blessings,
Barbara

13 Nov 99 - 12:06 PM (#135482)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Jack Ashton
From: Liz and Ed

Ed asked Ian Robb the same question about the same part of the song! I think I've got this right...

...playing soccer at the Rec (recreational area/field/or some such)

...and his bowling with a corky could be gory (corky is slang for a cricket ball)

If you're interested in more of Keith Marsden's songs, Dave Mallinson Publications in the UK (you can do a web search for the address) carries a book called "Picking Sooty Blackberries," which is a collection of many of his songs.

Cheers and happy singing (or listening)!

--Liz

13 Nov 99 - 12:07 PM (#135483)
Subject: Lyr Add: JACK ASHTON (Keith Marsden)
From: Graham Pirt

JACK ASHTON
(Keith Marsden)

Oh the times were hard and mean and our childhood days were lean,
In the land they said was fit for Flanders heroes.,
It was all a seaside show where poor folk couldn't go,
We just stood outside while others watched the pierrots.,
And we only had to spend what our friend Sam Clegg would lend, ,
There was little of Lloyd George's promised glories,
But each evening down the street by the gaslamp we would meet.
And we'd listen while Jack Ashton told his stories.

CHORUS
Aye we sat there and listened with our mouths open wide,
Though we knew in our hearts that the old devil lied.
But we needed to believe in the magic he would weave,
And we took a glass for old times' sake the day Jack died.

Now our all-wise parents said that he'd a screw loose in the head ,
And that we were daft to listen to his lies.
But we saw their daily grind and heard the magic in his mind,
And we knew who was daft and who was wise.
Though he nearly broke our necks playing soccer on the Rec.,
And his bowling with a corky could be gory.
As the evening sun went down by the lamp we'd gather round ,
And we'd listen while Jack Ashton told a story.

CHORUS

Now that Jack's been laid to rest if there's any justice left,
He'll be telling yarns now to the Holy Ghost.
And gathered round his knee open-mouthed as we would be,
Sit saints and angels, all the heavenly host.
And he'll tell them how he saved old Moses from the waves,
And slew Goliath with one mighty blow.
While an all-forgiving Lord listens smiling at his words,
As we did by the gas lamp long ago.

CHORUS

The "Rec." is the Recreation Ground and a "corky" is cricket ball which is hard cork covered in leather.

Good song eh?

Cheers Graham

13 Nov 99 - 12:12 PM (#135486)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Jack Ashton
From: Graham Pirt

Hi Liz and Ed

Looks like we were writing at the same time. If anyone is interested in the book "Picking Sooty Blackberries" then I have copies. For interest we had the show about the book recorded at Whitby Folk Week and are hoping to issue a double CD of it shortly after Christmas

Graham

13 Nov 99 - 12:53 PM (#135497)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Jack Ashton
From: Jeri

Folks, I don't want to embarrass Graham - well, not much - but I've discovered a great songwriter, great songs, and a great group of singers because of him.

A while back, I enquired about a Keith Marsden song, "Old Peculier." What happened after that is too long to tell in detail, but to sum up, I now possess the aforementioned book of Keith Marsden songs "Picking Sooty Blackberries," and three CDs of Graham's group Cockersdale. Graham sent some of these as a gift, (but suggested a donation to Mudcat) and some I sought out and purchased. I've asked to be on the waiting list for the forthcoming double CD.

Opinions:

Graham Pirt is a wonderful, generous human being and a gift to music and Mudcat.

Cockersdale does wonderful harmony, and has some of the best "in the English tradition, but author known" songs around anywhere.

If you like any song written by Keith Marsden, you will love the book. It's well written, and includes biographical information as well as notes on the songs.

Someone on this side of the pond should carry Cockersdale CDs.

13 Nov 99 - 06:48 PM (#135665)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Jack Ashton
From: Barbara

Gee, it sounds wonderful Jeri.
Graham, how do I order the book and your CD? Do you have a website? Anything that converts to or from US dollars? Wanta trade?
And thanks for clearing up that word confusion. It's a fine song. I find that I'm often humming it. Though I fall over the word "devil". My mind's ear seems to think it should be "bugger".
Blessings,
Barbara

13 Nov 99 - 07:13 PM (#135694)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Jack Ashton
From: Mick Lowe

Barbara
I have the same trouble with "devil", I always substitute "bugger".. I think it suits the mood of the song better
And sorry to be picky Graham, having spent the summer months of my youth ( so long ago and such better summers than we now suffer in rainy England) playing cricket in the street.. a "corkie" is a "practice" ball, made out of cork and not covered in leather. It tends to be lighter and less of a lethal weapon than the full blown version.
And whilst we're talking of Cockersdale being a brilliant group, which undoubtedly they are.. does anyone have the lyrics for "Doin' the Manch".. I know I should start a new thread, but I'm oh so lazy..
And another "AND".. anyone got the chords for Jack Ashton, I keep meaning to work them out, but never seem to have the time.
Finally, cos I've rambled enough.. do I take it Jeri you're in the States?.. i.e. your mention that someone on your side of the pond should carry Cockersdale cd's.. I know this is not much of a comfort, but trying to find them this side of the pond is just as bad..
Cheers
Mick

13 Nov 99 - 08:17 PM (#135722)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Jack Ashton
From: Jeri

Mick, "Doin' the Manch" is in the book. :-) I can't imagine how people can remember all those words. The song is hilarious! ("...but I can't remember eating that...")

13 Nov 99 - 08:29 PM (#135727)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Jack Ashton
From: Graham Pirt

Mick

Thanks for all the nice comments about Cockersdale. I'll post the words of Doin' the Manch' tomorrow. I've just got in after a late night! And Jeri - the Manch is actually quite an easy song to sing - the words just follow so regularly. Don't try to think of them - just let them flow! Web Page for Cockersdale should be up in about two weeks with details of ordering CDs etc.

By the way "devil" is used as a form of endearment and not in the way some seem to perceive it. There's a mischievousness attached to it rather than malevolence.

Graham

14 Nov 99 - 01:07 AM (#135812)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Jack Ashton
From: Barbara

Uhm, Graham, I hear either of those epithets in a fairly endearing tone in the song. It's clear from the get go that they are very fond of him, and calling him names is a way to express that. Does "bugger' seem less endearing to your ear?
Blessings,
Barbara

14 Nov 99 - 05:41 AM (#135836)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Jack Ashton
From: Graham Pirt

Barbara

Keith was a very thorough writer of songs. He would spend months writing and re-writing and when we rehearsed new material with him he was adamant that we sang what he wrote. However, he was also understanding enough to share that other people saw changes as desirable and I'm sure that he'd have no trouble with "bugger"! After all he was a bit of an auld bugger himself!

Graham

14 Nov 99 - 05:41 AM (#135837)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Jack Ashton
From: Graham Pirt

Barbara

Keith was a very thorough writer of songs. He would spend months writing and re-writing and when we rehearsed new material with him he was adamant that we sang what he wrote. However, he was also understanding enough to share that other people saw changes as desirable and I'm sure that he'd have no trouble with "bugger"! After all he was a bit of an auld bugger himself!

Graham

14 Nov 99 - 05:43 AM (#135838)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Jack Ashton
From: Graham Pirt

Sorry - hit submit twice! Wasn't trying to make a point more forcibly!

14 Nov 99 - 06:16 AM (#135845)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Jack Ashton
From: SingsIrish Songs

Funny, I was about to post a request for these lyrics earlier in the week when I found the lyrics via a websearch....

Great comments and explanations!

Now, I am wondering if there are other words written to this same tune????? For some reason, it seems I have heard the tune previously but with different lyrics...can someone set me straight? (so to speak)

Mary Kate

14 Nov 99 - 04:04 PM (#136020)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Jack Ashton
From: Graham Pirt

Don't know of another song to this tune. Keith wrote the tune and although he sometimes used tunes from the classics and opera as a basis (Vivaldi's "Winter" in The Drovers)I don't think he did with Jack Ashton. At least he never said so.

PS Doin' the Manch lyrics now posted under that thread

Graham

14 Nov 99 - 06:29 PM (#136066)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Jack Ashton
From: Sam Hudson

Nancy & I had the privilege of being in the 'chorale' backing Cockersdale at the performance of 'Picking Sooty Blackberries' at Whitby Folk Week. If the CD captures any fraction of the atmosphere that night, it will be well worth the buying - and we've heard that it does!

25 Nov 00 - 04:42 AM (#346440)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Jack Ashton
From: Snuffy

When I was a kid we called any hard cricket ball (as opposed to a beat-up old tennis ball or rubber ball) a "corky" and any leather football was a "casey".

Wassail! V

25 Nov 00 - 09:21 AM (#346498)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Jack Ashton
From: Geoff the Duck

I would agree that locally in West Yorkshire a cricket ball was known as a "corky", which distinguished it from other types of ball which were soft.
As for the phrase "old devil" it doesn't really mean the same thing as "old bugger". We would refer to someone as an old devil if they were a bit of a rogue, but the type of rogue who might be a bit mischievous rather than unpleasant. In the case of Jack Ashton, the sort of person who will tell the most outrageously exaggerated lies, but with a twinkle in his eye. The sort of person who makes the world a brighter and (safely) more dangerous a place. Someone who you can secretly admire, and wish that you could get away with the same kind of mischief.
An (grumpy) old bugger in my experience is more likely to be someone who you do not have the same respect for.
GtD

25 Nov 00 - 09:31 AM (#346501)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Jack Ashton
From: bill\sables

Geoff, what you describe as an old devil would have been an old bugger in Durham, bugger was a term of endearment

25 Nov 00 - 06:23 PM (#346740)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Jack Ashton
From: Mrs.Duck

That's what I said Bill. Certainly in our family buggar was a term of endearment and one which for obvious reasons I had to talk my mother out of using when my son then 3 went to nursery and referred to another child who was being cheeky as a little buggar!It's obviously a regional thing in the sam eway as the word tyke in Yorkshire would be a term of endearment whereas in Lancashire it is an insult. Since Keith was from Morley we'd better stick to devil!