|
04 Nov 13 - 05:15 AM (#3572667) Subject: MacLean 'Ready For The Storm'-Christian? From: Genie I find a numer of references to Dougie MacLean's song "Ready For The Storm" as a "Christian music" song, and it seems to have been included on some Christian music albums. I can kind of see some connection, but it's not very clear to me whether Dougie MacLean intended this as a religious song and whether those who see it as such are reading more into the lyrics than what is there. In some ways the song seems to be a human love song, in others a maritime song. But can anyone shed some light on the intended spiritual or religious reference? Thanks, Genie |
|
04 Nov 13 - 06:00 AM (#3572679) Subject: RE: MacLean 'Ready For The Storm'-Christian? From: maeve Hi, Genie. Why not ask Dougie? |
|
04 Nov 13 - 03:25 PM (#3572821) Subject: RE: MacLean 'Ready For The Storm'-Christian? From: michaelr And ask him also, Who is Sir Eddie? |
|
04 Nov 13 - 05:15 PM (#3572844) Subject: RE: MacLean 'Ready For The Storm'-Christian? From: Genie I guess I could ask Dougie, if I knew how to contact him. Or maybe I should ask some of the artists who have covered this song on their "Christian music" albums. (And, michaelr, I see you've found yet another mondegreen. LOL) |
|
04 Nov 13 - 05:34 PM (#3572853) Subject: RE: MacLean 'Ready For The Storm'-Christian? From: maeve Contact information here- click! |
|
04 Nov 13 - 05:38 PM (#3572855) Subject: RE: MacLean 'Ready For The Storm'-Christian? From: McGrath of Harlow No "reference". But of course the imagery is perfectly applicable, it's about facing troubles and coming through them. That's the thing about good songs, it's not so much a matter of "what are they about", but rather, what they can mean in particular contexts. |
|
04 Nov 13 - 06:05 PM (#3572860) Subject: RE: MacLean 'Ready For The Storm'-Christian? From: Genie The reason I'm asking is mainly that I'm considering doing this song for a church service, and I'm wondering if the religious reference is too subtle and/or ambiguous for it to be accepted. (It's that subtlety in part that I really like about the lyrics to this song. I also love the music to it.) I guess if "Christian recording artists" consider it to be at least spiritually relevant, maybe that should be enough. But I'd like to know how other people, especially folkies, interpret the lyrics too. (And thanks, Maeve, for the contact link.) |
|
04 Nov 13 - 08:41 PM (#3572897) Subject: RE: MacLean 'Ready For The Storm'-Christian? From: Jack Campin I don't think you'll get a real answer. He has enough commercial sense to flannel his way out of any commitment that might cost him sales. He'd never live down being identified as a Christian in Scotland or as an atheist in the US, and he has significant sales in both, so what do you expect him to say? When I first saw him in the 1970s he was on a Native American spirituality kick of the most crassly touristic variety. |
|
04 Nov 13 - 08:47 PM (#3572900) Subject: RE: MacLean 'Ready For The Storm'-Christian? From: McGrath of Harlow While it's not referring to anything particular the imagery is perfectly relevant to, say Jesus calming the waves, or St Paul being shipwrecked on Malta. |
|
05 Nov 13 - 01:12 AM (#3572930) Subject: ADD: Ready for the Storm (Dougie MacLean) From: Joe Offer I'd say it's a non-religious song that could easily have religious applications. The imagery is similar to that found in many religious songs, without being overtly religious. It's certainly a thought-provoking song. The song has been posted in the forum with chords, but it's a little easier to follow without the chords. So...I'll post it. -Joe- READY FOR THE STORM (Dougie MacLean) Oh, the waves crash in and the tide pulls out. It's an angry sea but there is no doubt That the lighthouse will keep shining out To warn the lonely sailor. And the lightning strikes and the wind cuts cold Through the sailor's bones to the sailor's soul Till there's nothing left that he can hold Except the rolling ocean. CHORUS But I am ready for the storm, yes, sir, ready. I am ready for the storm, ready for the storm. Give me mercy for my dreams, for every confrontation seems To tell me what it means to be this lonely sailor, But when the sky begins to clear, and the sun it melts away my fear, I'll cry a silent weary tear for those that need to love me. But distance it no is no real friend, and time it takes its time, But you will find that in the end it brings you me, the lonely sailor, But when you take me by your side you love me warm, you love me, And I should have realized I had no reasons to be frightened. |
|
05 Nov 13 - 04:15 AM (#3572947) Subject: RE: MacLean 'Ready For The Storm'-Christian? From: theleveller The fact that you have to ask gives you your answer. Surely there are plenty of overtly god-squad songs around without having to ruin a beautiful secular song by hijacking it and cobbling on some tacky pseudo-religious crap. If you do use it, I hope you ensure that Dougie gets his royalties – render unto Caesar etc. |
|
05 Nov 13 - 12:10 PM (#3573062) Subject: RE: MacLean 'Ready For The Storm'-Christian? From: GUEST,leeneia "ensure Dougie gets his royalties" Now how exactly would a person go about doing that? Perhaps if his website had a link named Royalties, that would work. But it doesn't. I've never seen such a thing, anywhere. Last Christmas I thought it would be fun to make a legit YouTube of my own version of 'Little Drummer Boy'. I spent a futile hour trying to find the way to pay a fee and get permission. I quit when the only possible route seemed to be to telephone Ms. So-and-so at a huge agency in London. (I live in the U.S.) If performers want royalties, they should make it easy for people to pay them. |
|
05 Nov 13 - 01:55 PM (#3573091) Subject: RE: MacLean 'Ready For The Storm'-Christian? From: Q (Frank Staplin) The agencies are the only way to go for most composers. Collecting and apportioning royalties is a complex business. |
|
05 Nov 13 - 03:34 PM (#3573115) Subject: RE: MacLean 'Ready For The Storm'-Christian? From: GUEST,kenny Having been to school with Dougie, and known him for over 40 years, - and also spent most of the last 12 days with him at his "Perthshire Amber" festival, I'm 99% certain that he did not intend any Christian / religious connotations whatsoever to be attached to that particular song. There is no evidence for that whatsoever that I'm aware of, and I've heard him introduce and sing it many, many times. What other people make of it is of course up to them. |
|
05 Nov 13 - 05:39 PM (#3573147) Subject: RE: MacLean 'Ready For The Storm'-Christian? From: BobKnight This whole thread is a bit like religion itself - looking for something that isn't there. |
|
05 Nov 13 - 09:32 PM (#3573195) Subject: RE: MacLean 'Ready For The Storm'-Christian? From: McGrath of Harlow The ravens are gathering... |
|
06 Nov 13 - 12:52 AM (#3573223) Subject: RE: MacLean 'Ready For The Storm'-Christian? From: Joe Offer Nonetheless, the song is thought-provoking. Some religious people like to do exactly that - provoke thought. As for you bigots, fuck you...and I say that with all the charity I can muster. But just who do you think you are, that you can say that a so-called "secular" song should not be used at a religious gathering? Good songs provoke thought, and thinking is not the exclusive domain of non-religious people. Many of us who consider ourselves religious, rail against the rigid, bigoted mindlessness of you absolutists - be you religious or non-religious. -Joe- |
|
06 Nov 13 - 02:26 AM (#3573234) Subject: RE: MacLean 'Ready For The Storm'-Christian? From: GUEST Surely kidnapping a secular song for religious purposes in not respectful to the songwriter or performer. |
|
06 Nov 13 - 03:14 AM (#3573240) Subject: RE: MacLean 'Ready For The Storm'-Christian? From: Keith A of Hertford Would it be OK for a trade union gathering to use it to raise spirits? A political party? What about a lifeboat fundraiser? Is it just Christians who should not sing it? |
|
06 Nov 13 - 04:06 AM (#3573248) Subject: RE: MacLean 'Ready For The Storm'-Christian? From: GUEST,kenny I answered a query posted here because I am probably in a better position to offer an opinion on the subject brought up than anyone else who posts here. If charges of "bigotry" are being made, then please be specific about who and which posts you're referring to. Can I just be clear about this, Joe ? Are you calling me a bigot ? - because if so, I'll gladly quit this site altogether, if that'll make you happy. |
|
06 Nov 13 - 04:41 AM (#3573255) Subject: RE: MacLean 'Ready For The Storm'-Christian? From: Phil Edwards When I did the programming for Don Maclean's Sunday morning programme on Radio 2 (to be more precise, when I applied for the job of producer and put together a running order for the programme as part of the interview process (I didn't get the job)) I had three main categories: devotional music and its derivatives; pop songs with some explicitly religious content; and songs of "non-specific uplift" (my own term for it). I'd say that "Ready for the Storm" is definitely a song of non-specific uplift. As for whether non-religious songs should be sung in religious settings, speaking as an agnostic I'm with Joe - who the hell are we, as non-churchgoers, to tell churchgoers what they can and can't sing? If people at the church think it doesn't make the grade that's another matter, but I think they're the ones who have to decide. In my local church, when I was a teenager, the musical wing of the youth group got the gig of playing through communion. One week they were on a John Denver kick and did "Goodbye Again"; the good people of the church thought that was a bit much for a Sunday morning. They didn't get any complaints about "I wish we'd all been ready", another of their favourites, although its message is a hell of a lot more heterodox than the John Denver song's. I guess that's the Church of England for you. |
|
06 Nov 13 - 04:47 AM (#3573259) Subject: RE: MacLean 'Ready For The Storm'-Christian? From: GUEST,Allan Conn Kenny from what I've read there is absolutely nothing bigoted in your post at all. I think Joe's comments were aimed more at leveller though in truth, though Leveller may have put it more diplomatically, there is also nothing very bigoted in believing that religion is mumbo jumbo etc and in expressing that view. In my opinion anyway. I can see both points in that folk will read what they want in to lyrics and of course anyone can sing what song they want anyway. At the same time it is at least a valid point that if someone is looking for a religious song then there are lots of those about without trying to appropriate secular songs. If it is a secular song then yes it can appear on a Christian album because it is appropriated that way - but in that sense it is no more Christian than "Dirty Old Town" is Irish. |
|
06 Nov 13 - 06:02 AM (#3573270) Subject: RE: MacLean 'Ready For The Storm'-Christian? From: GUEST,davemc Can't see that it is important what the artist's personal beliefs are. It is how the lyric speaks to the individual performer or listener. Everyone sees something different in a painting; it doesn't matter what the original painter intended - we don't live in his/her head or culture. |
|
06 Nov 13 - 06:33 AM (#3573280) Subject: RE: MacLean 'Ready For The Storm'-Christian? From: GUEST,Allan Conn "It is how the lyric speaks to the individual performer or listener" Taking that to its conclusion then if someone's song is taken up by a racist organisation (ie didn't the BNP try to use a Show Of Hands song?) then did the songwriter write a racist song just because someone else views it that way? Even when the songwriter is not racist and there was no racist meaning behind the song? |
|
06 Nov 13 - 06:42 AM (#3573281) Subject: RE: MacLean 'Ready For The Storm'-Christian? From: GUEST,Allan Conn Likewise I have a friend who thought "Both Sides The Tweed" was a unionist song. He read it that way! "let friendship and honour unite and flourish on both sides the Tweed" To him the song was about Scotland and England always being united. Didn't seem to grasp the rest of the lyric. So because he saw it that way is it a unionist song? Can a song be both of a unionist and nationalist persuasion because someone perceived it differently? Again I'm just saying there is a difference between a song being a song that Christian's can associate with and a song that is an actual Christian song! The original question was did Dougie intend this to be a Christian song and the one person on here who is in any position to give an opinion based on knowing Dougie seems to think not. |
|
06 Nov 13 - 06:46 AM (#3573284) Subject: RE: MacLean 'Ready For The Storm'-Christian? From: GUEST,Allan Conn I noticed that damned apostrophe in Christian's (my wife would kill me) before anyone else comments :-) |
|
06 Nov 13 - 07:45 AM (#3573293) Subject: RE: MacLean 'Ready For The Storm'-Christian? From: McGrath of Harlow Would anyone ever object to a non believer singing We Shall Overcome? |
|
06 Nov 13 - 08:04 AM (#3573297) Subject: RE: MacLean 'Ready For The Storm'-Christian? From: Phil Edwards there is a difference between a song being a song that Christians can associate with and a song that is an actual Christian song Any song that mentions Jesus (favourably!) is probably A Christian Song, although some of them are pretty heterodox (take the Cherry Tree Carol or Under the Leaves for starters). Beyond that I'm not sure it's a question that's even worth asking. If you're an X-ist and the song works for you and your X-ist friends, it's an X-ist song... for you and your friends. (And of course it's open to the Y-ists down the road to claim the song as theirs; it may work for them, too.) That doesn't make it intrinsically an X-ist or Y-ist song, or intrinsically anything else. All it is intrinsically is a series of sounds. |
|
06 Nov 13 - 08:26 AM (#3573302) Subject: RE: MacLean 'Ready For The Storm'-Christian? From: Phil Cooper Everyone perceives a song differently. What I get out of a song isn't necessarily what the person who hears me sing it will get out of it. A lot of "secular" songs mean a lot more to me than many "sacred" songs. Of course I'm the person who got in a bit of hot water for introducing our Lutheran pastor to Tom Paxton's What a Friend we Have in Hoover. He included it in the Luther League song book and someone's parent looked at the book and thought there was a communist influence (this was around 1971). I agree with the post sentiment that it's pretty much up to who singing the song in church and the church itself. What Dougie MacLean's intent was it pretty much irrelevant in this case. |
|
06 Nov 13 - 08:38 AM (#3573304) Subject: RE: MacLean 'Ready For The Storm'-Christian? From: GUEST,Allan Conn "If you're an X-ist and the song works for you and your X-ist friends, it's an X-ist song... for you and your friends" Fair do I get what you're saying but in the same way we couldn't then criticise anyone for saying "Dirty Old Town" is an Irish song or as per my friend that "Both Sides The Tweed" is a unionist song. If it works like that for them then it is fine! In the same way "Roots" by Show Of Hands is a racist song because it works for racist members of the BNP. The trouble is the original poster already knew that Christians used the song but wanted to know if the intention of the writer was for it to be a religious song. Saying anyone can use or appropriate any song they want hardly answers that question. Surely there is nothing wrong with knowing what the songwriter meant or didn't mean by the song? |
|
06 Nov 13 - 08:53 AM (#3573308) Subject: RE: MacLean 'Ready For The Storm'-Christian? From: GUEST,Allan Conn "Would anyone ever object to a non believer singing We Shall Overcome?" Don't imagine so and like I said anyone can sing any song they want as far as I'm unconcerned. However there is nothing specifically religious about some of the versions (ie Pete Seeger's doesn't mention God or religion) and the words may well strike a chord with perhaps humanist or other atheist groups. If they used it would it then be ok for them to describe it as an 'atheist song'? I imagine some may raise an eyebrow at that were it to happen. |
|
06 Nov 13 - 09:08 AM (#3573313) Subject: RE: MacLean 'Ready For The Storm'-Christian? From: theleveller And just who do you think you are, Joe Offer, to tell me to 'fuck off'? As regards bigotry, the words "pot", "kettle" and "black" spring to mind. |
|
06 Nov 13 - 11:29 AM (#3573353) Subject: RE: MacLean 'Ready For The Storm'-Christian? From: McGrath of Harlow A good maxim is, if you don't like bigotry, don't be a bigot yourself. And telling someone who is posting in a way that we reasonably think to be bigoted to go away and enjoy their own company is not in any way a bigoted thing to do. |
|
06 Nov 13 - 02:46 PM (#3573400) Subject: RE: MacLean 'Ready For The Storm'-Christian? From: Joe Offer Kenny, I'm sorry if you thought I was levelling at you. Way up above, I think I said more-or-less the same thing you said - that the song wasn't written with any religious intent. What I said: "I'd say it's a non-religious song that could easily have religious applications. The imagery is similar to that found in many religious songs, without being overtly religious. It's certainly a thought-provoking song." A lot of so-called "Christian" music, especially music written for youth, makes me nervous. A friend of mine who's a Lutheran minister, calls them "Jesus Is My Boyfriend" songs. They are embarrassingly insipid, and certainly not the kind of message I want to convey to young people, even if the melody is appealing to them. I tend to select songs that are rooted in the Psalms and other passages of scripture. For religious services, I mostly use exclusively religious music. An exception would be a non-sectarian gathering where I want to do my best to be inclusive. But for a class or a retreat, I'll often use a secular song to give people something to think about. I choose songs that encourage peace or compassion or tolerance or diversity. Believe it or not, most religious people encounter the same situations (good and bad) and have to actually think about how to deal with them - only a few fundamentalists have everything spelled out for them. And in an informal situation like a class or retreat, I wouldn't think of paying royalties for songs like we do for the ones we use in regular worship services. Do you pay royalties for songs you sing at singarounds? If you did a volunteer gig at a nursing home, would you pay royalties for every song you sing? And to whether it's offensive to secularists for religious people to sing a "secular" song at a religious gathering, that seems to me to be absolutely ludicrous. Now, if the song is some sort of exclusive anthem of the Secularist Religion, that might be another matter. If a song is held sacred by one group or another, then that sacredness should be respected - within reason. But this song doesn't make any attempt to be exclusively secularist. It addresses human emotions and human experiences. Last time I looked, religious people were also human beings and shared the same emotions and experiences - despite what the Mudcat bigots might tell you. Leveller, I have the impression you're a pretty good person and I hadn't thought of you as part of the Mudcat bigot team before, but your message posted 05 Nov 13 - 04:15 AM, crossed the line into hatefulness; and it made me very angry. Rightfully so, I think - but I'm glad that calmer voices have intervened since then. Disagreement is one thing, hatefulness is another. And to class all religious people together, is grossly unfair and bigoted. -Joe Offer- |
|
06 Nov 13 - 04:13 PM (#3573422) Subject: RE: MacLean 'Ready For The Storm'-Christian? From: McGrath of Harlow I was actually giving my response to the leveller's comment in the post immediately before mine which was referring to your post, Joe. It gets tangled up in here at times. I generally try identify who I'm talking about, I missed doing so this time. I hate the whole idea that particular songs should be shut up in special separated off ghettoes. I am happy that these days the Catholic church has got away from the idea that hymns from other traditions should not be welcomed - though I regret that in the process a lot of hymns that deserve to be sung have been dropped out of use. Of course it's the case that many songs which have no direct religious reference are only too appropriate to be used in a religious setting, just as it's true the other way round. |
|
07 Nov 13 - 06:29 AM (#3573544) Subject: RE: MacLean 'Ready For The Storm'-Christian? From: Phil Edwards Allan - obviously there are factual questions which can only be answered one way: MacColl was thinking of Salford when he wrote Dirty Old Town, and there's no such song as "Shoals of Erin". When you get into what a song means, though, I don't think the writer can have the last word. The reason why people can find a racist message in "Roots" - or a pagan message in "Lord of the dance" - is that the words can be read in that way, irrespective of how the author wanted them to be read. (I suspect Sydney Carter wouldn't have minded the pagan reading of LOTD, though.) I found some interesting critical commentary on "Roots" here and here. |
|
07 Nov 13 - 07:34 AM (#3573557) Subject: RE: MacLean 'Ready For The Storm'-Christian? From: McGrath of Harlow Well there is such a song as Shoals of Erin, insofar as that's the way some people sing it. It's just that that's not the way Ewan wrote it. |
|
07 Nov 13 - 07:54 AM (#3573563) Subject: RE: MacLean 'Ready For The Storm'-Christian? From: Phil Edwards True - I knew I was skating over that one too quickly! |
|
07 Nov 13 - 01:39 PM (#3573660) Subject: RE: MacLean 'Ready For The Storm'-Christian? From: Jim McLean I tend to put this type of song into the "Vicar of Bray" category, it means all things to all men/women. Blowing in the Wind belongs there, songs which can be sung by the Taliban and the Salvation Army. |
|
07 Nov 13 - 01:59 PM (#3573664) Subject: RE: MacLean 'Ready For The Storm'-Christian? From: Joe Offer Hey, isn't that Shoals of 'errin' ?? ;-) -Joe- |
|
07 Nov 13 - 02:48 PM (#3573675) Subject: RE: MacLean 'Ready For The Storm'-Christian? From: Jeri It's actually Shores of Erin". Let's try not to make mistakes with the mistakes. (Is a double-mondegreen a "mondegroan"? |
|
07 Nov 13 - 03:29 PM (#3573686) Subject: RE: MacLean 'Ready For The Storm'-Christian? From: Jack Campin I liked my father's take on "Blowin in the Wind". He was convinced that what Dylan had in mind was the American flag and it was a rah-rah patriotic song. (He did not think that was a good thing). |
|
07 Nov 13 - 06:33 PM (#3573737) Subject: RE: MacLean 'Ready For The Storm'-Christian? From: McGrath of Harlow Remember when Reagan's lot tried to use Born in America as a jingoistic anthem? The same happens to This Land is Your Land, I believe. The thing is people don't listen to the words of songs, as often as not. |
|
08 Nov 13 - 12:06 AM (#3573795) Subject: RE: MacLean 'Ready For The Storm'-Christian? From: Joe Offer Do you mean Reagan wanted to use Bruce Springsteen's Born in the U.S.A., Kevin? -Joe- |
|
06 Dec 13 - 05:58 PM (#3582175) Subject: RE: MacLean 'Ready For The Storm'-Christian? From: Genie @ theleveller First, who said anything about tacking anything onto Dougie's song? Second, if I do a song in church (or anywhere), I always credit the songwriter(s) if I have that info. Third, I wasn't aware that people were usually expected to pay royalties for a live performance of a song in a non-commercial setting. (Are we expected to pay royalties every time we sing a non-PD song at a singaround or song circle or around a campfire?) If that is expected, millions of singers/musicians are flouting the law and cheating composers and songwriters out of their royalties every day. (Printing sheet music for a song for use as a choir anthem is a bit different. Choir directors routinely do pay for that sort of use.) |
|
06 Dec 13 - 06:08 PM (#3582177) Subject: RE: MacLean 'Ready For The Storm'-Christian? From: Genie I agree that what a song means to a given singer or listener varies a lot, and I have often used non-Christian songs in church, if they fit. I sang "Somos El Barco" at a United Church Of Christ last summer, and everyone sang along; I've also used songs along the line of Blowing In The Wind or Jewish songs of peace, e.g., Havenu Shalom Aleichem or Lo Yisa Goy (which are based in scriptures shared by Christians and Jews). Not all prayers or inspirational songs used in a church service have to mention Jesus or even God in order to be compatible with that religion's beliefs. But since it appears that Dougie MacLean did not intend this as a Christian song and many, if not most, people do not hear it as such, I probably will not use it in the Presbyterian church I often attend (because it's walking distance from my home and I like the people and their social outreach), but I might do it at the UCC church I also attend. (Heck, the songs in their hymnal and done by their choir are often as lacking in direct or specific reference to God or Jesus as the ones I used to sing at Unitarian-Universalist churches.) BTW, since when are Scots people anti-Christian? Wasn't John Knox a Scotsman? |
|
06 Dec 13 - 07:36 PM (#3582199) Subject: RE: MacLean 'Ready For The Storm'-Christian? From: Jack Campin since when are Scots people anti-Christian? Since the last 12 years. http://www.heraldscotland.com/comment/columnists/challenge-to-the-kirk-as-number-of-scots-without-a-religion-at-new-high.2226316 http://www.scotsman.com/news/catholic-church-moves-into-pole-position-1-1433537 The only kind of Christian church attendance that's been on the up in Scotland over the last decade has been mass-going in Polish. (And a very small number of African immigrants involved in freaky fundie cults, but their numbers are too low to feature in the census). There is simply no market for Christian music in Scotland, as there is in North America. In the 40 years I've lived here I've never seen even one Christian music act publicly advertised, and mainstream record shops have never had bins for it. |
|
15 Oct 18 - 12:16 AM (#3956686) Subject: RE: MacLean 'Ready For The Storm'-Christian? From: GUEST MacLean's song, "Ready for the Storm" is the same song as recorded by Christian music artist Rich Mullins. Mullins recorded it in 1989. |
|
15 Oct 18 - 04:04 AM (#3956706) Subject: RE: MacLean 'Ready For The Storm'-Christian? From: Jack Campin Bit of a sidetrack, but I knew (contrary to a post up there) that music in churches was a revenue stream like any other in the capitalist economy, so I googled "christian music royalties" and found this remarkable story. Dave Bulmer meets Jesus: https://churchleaders.com/worship/worship-articles/147245-songwriters-beware.html |
|
15 Oct 18 - 12:46 PM (#3956768) Subject: RE: MacLean 'Ready For The Storm'-Christian? From: GUEST,Fyldeplayer If Ready for the Storm is not suitable for church performance then the devil is certainly getting the best tunes. I have attended a wedding and a Christmas service of the modern church style recently and the songs were excruciating - totally direct, sans poetry. I reframed from any comment as my relations would challenge me to do better! RFTS is certainly uplifting but not I think song of Christian belief. |
|
17 Oct 18 - 04:27 PM (#3957174) Subject: RE: MacLean 'Ready For The Storm'-Christian? From: leeneia I agree, Fyldeplayer. It could apply to any of life's crises - serious illness, depression, bereavement, recovery from addiction... |