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02 Feb 14 - 10:47 AM (#3597583) Subject: Origins: How can a guinea pig show he's pleased? From: MGM·Lion In a thread named "What was your first tune", Doug Chadwick, on 14 Apr 02, wrote, 'The first tunes I learnt for public performance (singing at neighbours' doors in return for a ride on the milkman's horse and cart when was about 4 years old) were: "What did the poor little moths live on when Adam and Eve were there" and "How can a guinea pig show he's pleased if he hasn't got a tail to wag". I learned these songs at my mother's knee and she, in turn, learnt them from the horn of her uncle's wind up gramphone.' I found this, as one should before posting, by checking on "Search", and this was the sole result. I was going to ask if anyone knew anything about the second of these, which one of the teachers at my school used to sing at 1st year Christmas parties. His full lyric was How can a guinea pig show he's pleased when he hasn't got a tail to wag? All other animals, you will find, Have got a little tail stuck on behind. If they'd only put a tail on a guinea pig, And finish off a decent job, Then the price of a guinea pig would go right up From a guinea up to thirty bob. Does anyone know: is that it, or is there a longer song of which this is the chorus; it has something of the feel to me of the chorus of a Music Hall song -- an impression perhaps strengthened by the reference to "the horn of uncle's wind-up gramophone". Any idea of an author/composer? In fact, any more info whatever? ~Michael~ |
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03 Feb 14 - 04:53 AM (#3597776) Subject: RE: Origins: How can a guinea pig show he's pleased? From: Doug Chadwick They are the words that I know. Googling gives a few more hits but no more significant information or additional lyrics. The tune can be heard at How can a guinea pig show he's pleased DC |
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03 Feb 14 - 09:39 AM (#3597841) Subject: RE: Origins: How can a guinea pig show he's pleased? From: Doug Chadwick I have found a piece by a London Correspondent of The Mail (Adelaide, SA), Saturday 13 February 1926 about a theatre group called the Co-Optimists, who's leader had "… no difficulty in getting the whole house to sing a childish ditty like this:" It then went on to print the lyrics as above. DC |
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03 Feb 14 - 09:57 AM (#3597852) Subject: RE: Origins: How can a guinea pig show he's pleased? From: Doug Chadwick More on the The Co-Optimists which gave an early platform to Stanley Holloway. I wonder if the Guinea Pig song was written for the revue? DC |
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03 Feb 14 - 10:00 AM (#3597855) Subject: RE: Origins: How can a guinea pig show he's pleased? From: Marje I learned this orally in my childhood in the 1950s, just as printed above. I taught it to my children when they got guinea pigs (with explanations re the currency!) and I think it has now reached the grandchildren, who are also guinea-pig owners. I've never thought of it as anything other than a complete little song in its own right. Marje |
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03 Feb 14 - 11:02 AM (#3597870) Subject: RE: Origins: How can a guinea pig show he's pleased? From: MGM·Lion Many thanks for those links, Doug. I remember many of the Co-Optimist names from BBC Radio Music Hall & Happidrome & such programmes in the 40s: Dave Burnaby, Harry S Pepper [who I think became a band leader or producer]; Phyllis Monkman & Cyril Ritchard were in early British Hitchcock films, I think; & Ritchard later a notable Captain Hook in a 50s Peter Pan. Very likely the "Guinea-Pig" song originated with this group. Perhaps Mr Burnaby wrote it? From your Adelaide report he certainly seems to have been the one who sang it. & the teacher at my school in the 40s that I ref'd in OP was about of an age to have seen the Co-Optimists 20 years or so before & got the song from them. Many thanks, Marje, for your recollections. From whom did you "learn it orally" in the 50s? Friends or family? You may well be right that it is a complete song on its own: certainly makes a single cogent point, doesn't it? Anyone else know the song, or anything about it? ~M~ |
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03 Feb 14 - 12:16 PM (#3597904) Subject: RE: Origins: How can a guinea pig show he's pleased? From: Newport Boy I learnt this, probably from my father, in the early 1940s. I only remember the last half, but that may be the bit I joined in on. There's a listing here of the Co-Optimists songs and No 61, credited to Melville Gideon, is 'The tale of a guinea pig'. I can't find anything further about it. Phil |
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03 Feb 14 - 12:29 PM (#3597909) Subject: RE: Origins: How can a guinea pig show he's pleased? From: MGM·Lion Great link, Phil. Now, M Gideon seems to have been an American who came over here, acc to wikipedia entry ~~ -"Melville Gideon (May 21, 1884, New York City – November 11, 1933, London) was an American composer, lyricist and performer of ragtime music, composing many themes for hit Broadway musicals including The Co-Optimists. He was also a director, producer and performer"- ... tho that 'including The Co-Optimists' seems a bit confusing, as it wasn't a Broadway musical'. In fact it's a slightly confusing entry, appearing in the first clause to suggest that he only composed & performed ragtime, but then implying much wider musical interests and accomplishments. Still, all these various links & contributions, taken together, do seem to settle the question of origin & composition, which is what I was after. Very many thanks to all. ~Michael~ |
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03 Feb 14 - 12:30 PM (#3597911) Subject: RE: Origins: How can a guinea pig show he's pleased? From: Newport Boy And there's a recording by the Co-Optimists on an LP - World Record Club SHB 25. According to this website 6 users have it in their collections. All you have to do is track one down! Phil |
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03 Feb 14 - 12:33 PM (#3597913) Subject: RE: Origins: How can a guinea pig show he's pleased? From: Newport Boy I've seen Melville Gideon described as 'an early crooner' and he was certainly a performing member of the Co-Optimists, so his field was pretty wide. Phil |
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03 Feb 14 - 01:01 PM (#3597927) Subject: RE: Origins: How can a guinea pig show he's pleased? From: MGM·Lion Great. Thanks again. Here are details of that recording; http://castalbums.org/recordings/The-Co-Optimists-Original-Casts/19845 Appears to be an LP double-album. Song in question appears on Side C, track 8. Didn't they do a lot of Irving Berlin! Presumably the 'Always' listed is his famous song... But an eclectic repertoire, it seems to be, doesn't it?, with their own original comic songs like this one cheek-by-jowl with Irving B & Fred Astaire... I seem to recall having read somewhere, but can't recall where, that the Co-Optimists might have been the inspiration for the eponymous "Good Companions" concert party of J B Priestley's best-selling novel of 1929. Seems plausible. ~M~ |
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03 Feb 14 - 01:42 PM (#3597947) Subject: RE: Origins: How can a guinea pig show he's pleased? From: Marje MtheGM - I learned it from my Mum, who was Scottish. She had been an infant teacher at one time, so she may have had it in her repertoire of songs for the little ones. |
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03 Feb 14 - 02:37 PM (#3597976) Subject: RE: Origins: How can a guinea pig show he's pleased? From: Richard Mellish Second go at posting this. Preview worked, then Submit went back to the lyrics and knowledge page but without my message. There is more. All I can remember is the line "When a little dog is pleased, he'll wag his tail", but I'm sure that is part of a series of lines about other kinds of animal. And I think I have heard Stanley Hollway sing it. Richard |
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03 Feb 14 - 06:28 PM (#3598039) Subject: RE: Origins: How can a guinea pig show he's pleased? From: Doug Chadwick There is a preview sample from "Highlights From The Co-Optimists" on Amazon.com which starts with .... and so, how can a guinea pig .... which suggests that Richard is right and there is more. The song is titled "The Tale of a Guinea Pig", as pointed out by Newport Boy, and the composers were Greatrex Newman (words) and Melville Gideon (music). DC |
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04 Feb 14 - 06:16 AM (#3598133) Subject: RE: Origins: How can a guinea pig show he's pleased? From: MGM·Lion Ah! Thank you. Newman doesn't seem to have been one of the Co-Optimists, but associated with their contemporaries the Fol-de-Rols. But he must have had some contact with them if he collaborated with the Co-Optimists' Gideon on what now appears to have been indubitably a Co-Optimist song. Interesting histories of both companies can be googled. The C-O's seem to have been more theatre-based while the F-d-Rs more an end-of-pier troupe, is my impression. Indeed Doug: that excerpt on the Amazon record linked above does suggest that the "How can a guinea-pig..." passage may well be, as I suggested first-off might be the case, the chorus of a longer song - about various animals? ~M~ |
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04 Feb 14 - 12:23 PM (#3598252) Subject: Lyr Add: TALE OF A GUINEA PIG (Newman/Gideon) From: Doug Chadwick I downloaded the track and found an introductory verse that Richard was referring to: If a little dog is sad He'll whine and wail When a little dog is glad He'll wag his tail All the Pekingese and Poms Wave their little to's and from's But one animal I know Has no tail to wag, and so, How can a guinea pig show he's pleased When he hasn't got a tail to wag? All other animals, you will find, Have got a little tail stuck on behind. If they’d only put a tail on a guinea pig, And finish off a decent job, Then the price of a guinea pig would go right up From a guinea up to thirty bob. The chorus is then played on the piano in ragtime, sung again in an upbeat style and then played once more by a jazz band, perhaps reflecting Melville Gideon's "…. wider musical interests and accomplishments" DC |
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04 Feb 14 - 02:02 PM (#3598295) Subject: RE: Origins: How can a guinea pig show he's pleased? From: MGM·Lion Magic! Many thanks again, Doug! ~M~ |
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25 Feb 14 - 07:54 AM (#3604674) Subject: RE: Origins: How can a guinea pig show he's pleased? From: GUEST,WillPower I think there's at least one more verse. My grandmother used to sing it to me, and told me she won a talent competition when she was a child singing it on a boat from the US to the UK in the early 20's. The only two extra lines I can remember were when the guinea pig tried to propose, and it all went wrong with: "She'd return his ring with thanks When she found out he was Manx" I'd love to find out the rest! W |
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30 Sep 14 - 03:36 AM (#3664611) Subject: RE: Origins: How can a guinea pig show he's pleased? From: GUEST,Marianne Hulse If a little dog is sad He'll whine and wail When a little dog is glad He'll wag his tail All the little Pekes and Poms Wave their tiny to's and from's But one animal I know Has no tail to wag, and so, How can a guinea pig show he's pleased When he hasn't got a tail to wag? All other animals, you will find, Have got a little tail stuck on behind. If they'd only put a tail on a guinea pig, And finish off a decent job, The price of a guinea pig would go right up From a guinea up to thirty bob. If a guinea pig should fall in love one day On his lady love he'll call but sad to say She'll return his ring with thanks When she finds that he is Manx So he'd have to go through life Minus tail and minus wife. How can a guinea pig show he's pleased When he hasn't got a tail to wag? All other animals, you will find, Have got a little tail stuck on behind. If they'd only put a tail on a guinea pig, And finish off a decent job, The price of a guinea pig would go right up From a guinea up to thirty bob. |
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30 Sep 14 - 03:38 AM (#3664612) Subject: RE: Origins: How can a guinea pig show he's pleased? From: GUEST,Marianne Hulse This song is a family tradition for us. |
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30 Sep 14 - 04:17 AM (#3664619) Subject: RE: Origins: How can a guinea pig show he's pleased? From: MGM·Lion Lovely, Marianne. Many thanks. ≈Michael≈ |
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13 Nov 14 - 05:56 PM (#3677022) Subject: RE: Origins: How can a guinea pig show he's pleased? From: GUEST No idea about origins but I do know it must date back to or before the 1930s because, improbably, it was sung at an International Brigade Christmas Party during the Spanish Civil War. "Dr Bradsworth of Birmingham who has done such valiant service in Spain insisted on singing "How can a guinea-pig show he's pleased when he hasn't got a tail to wag" Later in the proceedings Under the Old Apple Tree, Nellie Dean and Frankie and Johnnie were also sung. You want to watch these internet forums, people come up with the strangest information! |
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13 Nov 14 - 06:08 PM (#3677024) Subject: RE: Origins: How can a guinea pig show he's pleased? From: GUEST,Rahere I refer to the thread on f'ing bunnies. Have his species revenge? |
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16 Dec 15 - 01:44 PM (#3758846) Subject: RE: Origins: How can a guinea pig show he's pleased? From: GUEST How lovely to find someone who knows this song. My mother sang it to me - but none of my friends or colleagues have heard of it. I am now 62 - and I did sing it to my daughter when she was a little girl. Cheryl |
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12 Mar 16 - 12:44 PM (#3778306) Subject: RE: Origins: How can a guinea pig show he's pleased? From: GUEST,Colin Bradbury I learnt this song as a child,and discovered this site whilst looking for some words I'd forgotten. As no-one seemed to have posted the tune, I sat down at the piano and made an mp3. You can find it at www.lazarusedition.co.uk/extras/guineapig.mp3 |
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15 Nov 16 - 12:49 PM (#3820782) Subject: RE: Origins: How can a guinea pig show he's pleased? From: GUEST Chris Bennett..15 Nov 2016 Here are the second and last verses (as I remember them!) 2nd: Just imagine how it hurts, each pig to find Even little flannel shirts have tails behind You should hear them laugh and scoff When the laundries tear them off Then that pig to show his glee Wags his....where his tail should be Last: m If a guinea pig should fall in love one day On his lady love he'll call and sad to say She'll return his ring with thanks when she finds that he's a manx Then that pig will go through life Minus tail and minus wife. |
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23 Jan 19 - 03:16 PM (#3973148) Subject: RE: Origins: How can a guinea pig show he's pleased? From: GUEST,Elaine Gray I learned this from my mother in the 40's but I remember the first line as 'his glee'. I didn't know about the other verses. Thankyou |
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24 Jan 19 - 01:59 AM (#3973189) Subject: RE: Origins: Tale of a Guinea Pig (G Newman/M Gideon) From: Jim Dixon You can see the first page of the sheet music here. That includes the entire chorus. |
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02 Jan 21 - 04:49 AM (#4086122) Subject: RE: Origins: Tale of a Guinea Pig (G Newman/M Gideon) From: GUEST,Bnaden We were taught this by my grandparents in the early 70s with one exception: “Has got a little rudder tagged on behind” ! |
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24 Sep 21 - 05:49 AM (#4120797) Subject: RE: Origins: Tale of a Guinea Pig (G Newman/M Gideon) From: GUEST Found a full version: https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=506843363526260 |