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12 Sep 14 - 09:30 PM (#3659795) Subject: Tune Req: Thais: 'One Time in Alexandria...' From: GUEST,sarahsez Starting a new thread as this was mentioned in in a question about another song. Someone kindly posted the chords to Thais but I still don't know what the tune is. |
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13 Sep 14 - 12:47 PM (#3659905) Subject: RE: Tune Req: Thais: 'One Time in Alexandria...' From: GUEST,Arkie Tune is supposed to be here. But I did not check to see if it played. Thais |
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13 Sep 14 - 03:37 PM (#3659941) Subject: RE: Tune Req: Thais: 'One Time in Alexandria...' From: Bill D The tune plays as a midi...it is close enough, though not 'exactly' what I use. |
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13 Sep 14 - 08:29 PM (#3660017) Subject: RE: Tune Req: Thais: 'One Time in Alexandria...' From: Joe_F It is in _The New Song Fest_ -- words & music. |
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13 Sep 14 - 08:41 PM (#3660019) Subject: RE: Tune Req: Thais: 'One Time in Alexandria...' From: GUEST thanks,all! |
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13 Sep 14 - 10:23 PM (#3660023) Subject: RE: Tune Req: Thais: 'One Time in Alexandria...' From: Don Firth That's one I've done with considerable success. I learned it from Walt Robertson back sometime in the mid-1950s. In fact, I knew and sang the song before my wife and I saw the opera, and the song is a tidy encapsulation of the plot. Pretty much on the button. Mixed ending. Thais the Alexandrian "courtesan" saves her soul, but Athanael, the monk, loses his soul to lust. But the midi-file, kinda stinks. The pitch changes up and down the staff are fairly accurate, but the tempo--every note value (length) is exactly the same!! Idiotic! The best I can suggest is to see if you can find a copy of "The New Song Fest" compiled by Dick and Beth Best (crammed with all kinds of great songs, folk songs, camp songs, rounds, lotsa good stuff!) and check the tune there. Failing that, it IS possible to salvage the tune as presented by the midi-file if you study the lyrics carefully, ignore the "four-square" timing, and ham it up a bunch. For example, do the line "I'll go to Alexandria and save her soul from Hell!" with a sort of lecherous glee. The following verse when the monk is packing for the trip, sing it fast—his hormones are flowing and he's in a hurry! And don't miss the double-meaning in the line, "Said he to Thais, 'Pardon me, although this job is hard on me….'" In the next verse, when Thais responds, Walt (and I) sing her lines as if she's a complete ditz with a heavy Bronx accent. I had the advantage of hearing it sung first by a guy (Walt) who as both an excellent singer and a fine actor. But I don't know if anyone has ever recorded it. I could go through it line-by-line, but I don't really have the time right know, and I don't want to cramp anybody else's creativity. My best advice would be to study the song line-by-line, and don't be afraid to ham it up!! I wouldn't sing it at a church social. But I've sung it a fair amount in parties and at coffee houses, and most people simply take it as a funny, slightly bawdy song, and lots of people who sing it are not aware that the story is taken from Jules Massenet's opera. Thaïs. Oh!! Note that her name is two syllables: "Tah-EES." I have heard a few people who sing it pronounce it "Thighs!" Oy!! I've note that the people who seem to get the biggest bang out of it are opera fans who are familiar with the opera! Play with it. Have fun! Don Firth |
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14 Sep 14 - 11:12 AM (#3660124) Subject: RE: Tune Req: Thais: 'One Time in Alexandria...' From: Gorgeous Gary If you don't mind a CD with a bunch of SF/fantasy songs on it, Juanita Coulson covers "Thais" on her CD Past and Future Tense. -- Gary |
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14 Sep 14 - 12:53 PM (#3660158) Subject: RE: Tune Req: Thais: 'One Time in Alexandria...' From: GUEST Here it is, word for word and note for note exactly from "Song Fest" by Dick and Beth Best. The midi is also transcribed note by note from the above reference. Of course one wouldn't sing it exactly this way - every note exactly the same time value - but it does give the basic melody. I don't know if there's any definite version of this song - after all it's folk music, folks, so sing it any way you like. Cheers, S. in Seattle |
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14 Sep 14 - 02:01 PM (#3660188) Subject: RE: Tune Req: Thais: 'One Time in Alexandria...' From: Stewart That was me above (sans cookie). Yes, I learned that song in college back in the late '50s. It was popular among the folk singers then, and we all learned it from "the old yellow songbook" - Song Fest by Best and Best. Years later I still remember every word from the thirteen bloody verses. The words were by Newman Levy from his book "Opera Guyed," 1923, Alfred A. Knopf. I don't know who put it to music, but it's certainly part of the folk tradition. Cheers, S. in Seattle |
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11 May 20 - 10:53 PM (#4051900) Subject: RE: Tune Req: Thais: 'One Time in Alexandria...' From: Joe Offer But is it an older tune that we should know? Where did the music come from? Even Abby Sale didn't know. |
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13 May 20 - 11:34 AM (#4052251) Subject: RE: Tune Req: Thais: 'One Time in Alexandria...' From: Bill D I have only ever heard one tune.... I can't even remember when I first heard it, but I sort of knew it before I moved east. When I visited the Wash DC area to attend the National Folk Festival.. then held at the Wolf Trap Farm Park in Virginia, near DC... I volunteered to help make sandwiches and such for the performers, and thus got a 'badge' to have access to the area under the stage where performers wandered about. Thus, I was hanging out near a passageway when Jon Eberhart, a founder of FSGW, and Jon Bartlett of British Columbia (on the program and who had sometimes posted here at Mudcat) somehow got up on a tiny, low stage and started singing Thais. They had gotten thru maybe a third of it when Helen Schneyer, she of more wonderful songs than I can list, came down the passageway, almost clanking with her turquoise jewelry. She came by... stopped... turned and stared at them for about 3-4 seconds, and said "Oh my God... they BOTH know it!".. and clanked away. Since then, I have sung the thing 3-4 times for one event or another.... sometimes forgetting the last verse. The last time was 'about' 3 years ago at the monthly open sing. They never missed a word |
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12 Oct 23 - 04:34 PM (#4183532) Subject: RE: Tune Req: Thais: 'One Time in Alexandria...' From: Catamariner Composer Newman Levy 1888-1966, wrote "Thaïs" as a parody on the opera Thaïs by Jules Massenet, for his 1923 book "Opera Guyed." |
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12 Oct 23 - 04:34 PM (#4188011) Subject: RE: Tune Req: Thais: 'One Time in Alexandria...' From: Catamariner Composer Newman Levy 1888-1966, wrote "Thaïs" as a parody on the opera Thaïs by Jules Massenet, for his 1923 book "Opera Guyed." |
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12 Oct 23 - 04:40 PM (#4188012) Subject: RE: Tune Req: Thais: 'One Time in Alexandria...' From: Catamariner Whoops sorry, the tune appeared with the words in Ed Cray's Bawdy Ballads (publ. 1955). There may have been an earlier instance of the tune, but I have not yet found it. |
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12 Oct 23 - 04:40 PM (#4183534) Subject: RE: Tune Req: Thais: 'One Time in Alexandria...' From: Catamariner Whoops sorry, the tune appeared with the words in Ed Cray's Bawdy Ballads (publ. 1955). There may have been an earlier instance of the tune, but I have not yet found it. |
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12 Oct 23 - 05:28 PM (#4183536) Subject: RE: Tune Req: Thais: 'One Time in Alexandria...' From: GerryM I find it amusing that the phrase, "in a manner rather rude," turns up in both Thaïs and in Pretty Boy Floyd. |
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12 Oct 23 - 05:28 PM (#4188013) Subject: RE: Tune Req: Thais: 'One Time in Alexandria...' From: GerryM I find it amusing that the phrase, "in a manner rather rude," turns up in both Thaïs and in Pretty Boy Floyd. |
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12 Oct 23 - 08:32 PM (#4188010) Subject: RE: Tune Req: Thais: 'One Time in Alexandria...' From: GUEST,Jon Bartlett Bill D. remembers it right! It was the US Bicentennial and I was one of the 'gifts' (ha, ha) that Canada sent. Singing with Eberhart was wonderful and with Helen and her daughter even better. Jon Bartlett |
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13 May 25 - 06:10 PM (#4222498) Subject: RE: Tune Req: Thais: 'One Time in Alexandria...' From: GUEST,Abby Sale Catch me sometime in some folk(ish) Zoom song room; I'll sing it for you. I learned it about 1958 in a Philadelphia coffeehouse. Sung I think by local folk "star" Joe....?Abramson. I've only heard one other tune but it was kinda singsongy. No clue where either came from. I go to the fsgw group monthly and a few others. Unfortunately, I can rarely get to the Mudcap group or here, come to that. I can be found at FB under my secret alias, Abby Sale. |
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13 May 25 - 10:53 PM (#4222509) Subject: RE: Tune Req: Thais: 'One Time in Alexandria...' From: GerryM Thaïs has been done (at least) twice at the Mudcat Zoom singaround, first on 17/18 May 2021, then again on 13/14 May 2024. So, we're due for an encore in May of 2027. I may even have a record of who sang it, but perhaps the singer would prefer to remain anonymous. |
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03 Jul 25 - 06:33 PM (#4225093) Subject: RE: Tune Req: Thais: 'One Time in Alexandria...' From: Catamariner Just did it for Abby :-) Got my tune from a recording of Juanita Coulson doing it, but it's pretty much the same tune as in Miriam Berg collection, which *she* got from Teton Tea song nights in Berkeley: http://folksongcollector.com/thais.html --Heather |
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04 Jul 25 - 05:32 AM (#4225112) Subject: RE: Tune Req: Thais: 'One Time in Alexandria...' From: Jack Campin The famous tune from "Thais" is the "Meditation", is that it? |
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05 Jul 25 - 01:00 AM (#4225166) Subject: ADD:Thais, 'Voila donc la terrible cite'(Massenet) From: Joe Offer Not "Meditation," Jack, but it was the lead I wanted. The text of Newman Levy's "Thais" is related to the aria "Voila donc la terrible cite" https://www.opera-arias.com/massenet/thais/voila-donc-la-terrible-cite/ Voila donc la terrible cite (Composer: Jules Massenet) Voilà donc la terrible cité! Alexandrie! Alexandrie! Où je suis né dans le péché; L'air brillant où j'ai respiré L'affreux parfum de la luxure! Voilà la mer voluptueuse Où j'écoutais chanter la sirène aux yeux d'or! Oui, voilà mon berceau selon la chair, Alexandrie! O ma patrie! Mon berceau, ma patrie! De ton amour, j'ai détourné mon coeur. Pour ta richesse, je te hais! Pour ta science et ta beauté, je te hais! Je te hais! Et maintenant je te maudis Comme un temple hanté par les esprits impurs! Venez! Anges du ciel! Souffles de Dieu! Parfumez, du battement de vos ailes, L'air corrompu qui va m'environner! Venez! from Google Translate: So this is the terrible city! Alexandria! Alexandria! Where I was born in sin; The brilliant air where I breathed The dreadful scent of lust! This is the voluptuous sea Where I listened to the golden-eyed siren sing! Yes, this is my cradle according to the flesh, Alexandria! O my homeland! My cradle, my homeland! From your love, I have turned my heart away. For your wealth, I hate you! For your knowledge and your beauty, I hate you! I hate you! And now I curse you Like a temple haunted by impure spirits! Come! Angels of heaven! Breaths of God! Perfume, with the beat of your wings, The corrupted air that will surround me! Come! And from the Digital Tradition: THAIS (Newman Levy) One time in Alexandria, in wicked Alexandria Where nights were wild with revelry and life was but a game, There lived, so the report is, an adventuress and courtesan The pride of Alexandria, and Thais was her name. (Break: Naughty Lady of Shady Lane) Nearby, in peace and piety, avoiding all society There dwelt a band of holy men who'd made their refuge there, And in the desert's solitude, they spurned all earthly folly to Devote their lives to holy works, to fasting and to prayer. (Break: Break, oh Mighty Fortress) Now one monk whom I solely mention of this band of holy men Was known as Athaneal, he was famous near and far. At fasting bouts and prayer, with him, none other could compare with him, At plain and fancy praying he could do the course in par. (Break:God of our Fathers) One day while sleeping heavily, from wresting with the Devil he Had gone to bed exhausted, though the sun was shining still He had a vision Freudian, and though he was annoyed, he an- Alyzed it in the well-known style of Doctors Jung and Brill. (Break:Dr. Freud) He dreamed of Alexandria, of wicked Alexandria. A crowd of men was cheering in a manner rather rude. And Athaneal glancing there at THAIS, who was dancing there Observed her do the shimmy, in what artists call The Nude! (Break: Samson and Delilah) Said he,"This dream fantastical disturbs my thoughts monastical, Some unsuppressed desire, I fear, has found my monkish cell. I blushed up to the hat o' me to view that girl's anatomy I'll go to Alexandria and save her soul from Hell!" (Break: Onward Christian Soldiers) So, pausing not to wonder where he'd put his winter underwear He quickly packed his evening clothes, a toothbrush and a vest To guard against exposure he threw in some woolen hosiery And bidding all the boys Adieu, he started on his quest. (Break: Happy Wanderer) The monk, though warned and fortified was deeply shocked and mortified, To find, on his arrival, wild debauchery in sway. While some were in a stupor, sent by booze of more than two percent, The rest were all behaving in a most immoral way. (Break: Passengers Will Please Refrain) Said he to Thais, "Pardon me. Although this job is hard on me, I've got to put you straight to what I came out hear to tell: What's all this boozin' gettin' you? Cut out this pie-eyed retinue, Let's hit the road together, kid, and save you soul from Hell!" (Break: Onward Christian Soldiers) Although this bold admonishment caused Thais some astonishment, She quickly answered,"Say! You said a heaping mouthful, Bo! This burg's a frost, I'm telling you. The brand of hooch they're selling you Ain't like the stuff you used to get, so let's pack up and go!" (Break: Blowing in the Wind) So off from Alexandria, from wicked Alexandria Across the desert sands they go, beneath the burning sun. Till Thais, parched and sweltering, finds refuge in the sheltering Seclusion of a convent in the habit of a nun. (Break: Dominique) And now the monk is terrified to find his fears are verified His holy vows of chastity have cracked beneath the strain! Like one who has a jag on, he cries out in grief and agony "I'd sell my soul to see her do the shimmy once again!" (Break: Snake Dance) Alas! His pleadings amorous, though passionate and clamorous Have come too late. The courtesan has danced her final dance. Said he,"Now that's a joke on me, for that there dame to croak on me, I never should have passed her up the time I had a chance!" NOTE: Breaks are instrumental breaks as performed by Nick Krukovsky. Copyright Newman Levy 1923 @ballad @religion @drink filename[ THAISALX RG |
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05 Jul 25 - 01:03 AM (#4225167) Subject: Origins: Thais: 'One Time in Alexandria...' From: Joe Offer Stewart Hendrickson of Seattle has a good article here: https://pnwfolklore.org/wp-nwhoot/index.php/2018/11/22/newman-levy-barrister-bard-by-stewart-hendrickson/
When I was a student at Pomona College (Claremont, CA) in the late 1950s, folk music was just appearing on the scene. A classmate of mine was a little unusual since he was one of the few students who had a beard, sang folk songs and played guitar. One of the songs he sang was Thais, a five-minute humorous synopsis of the opera with witty verses and clever rhymes. With thirteen verses, it is an epic poem set to music. THAIS One time in Alexandria,
I learned this song from Song Fest, “the old yellow songbook,” which was a popular source of folk songs for group singing – sort of like Rise Up Singing is today. My two surviving copies are well worn with the covers mostly gone. Lyrics and music were given for each song, but never the source or author. Some years ago while driving through Death Valley (an appropriate locale for this song), I thought of this song, which I hadn’t sung in many years. Much to my astonishment, I knew all the words even though I had never attempted to memorize it – I always sang it from the book. All I had to do was to put the lines in the right order and I had the whole song, all thirteen verses! When I sang this song again in public, someone asked me who wrote it. I hadn’t the faintest idea. With my curiosity piqued, I did a little research. The author turned out to be Newman Levy. Newman Levy (1888–1966) was an interesting man who lived a double life. He was an Assistant District Attorney of New York City, a trial lawyer, and a writer of light verse who loved opera and theater. His father, a highly successful lawyer, insisted that his son become a lawyer, but Newman really wanted to become a writer, lyricist, and a musician like his cousin Richard Rogers. In fact he studied music composition with Deems Taylor and composed musicals as a college undergraduate before going to law school. In the course of a successful law career, he also became a writer of light verse for the New Yorker, the Saturday Evening Post and other popular magazines of the early 20th century. He published several books of light verse including Opera Guyed, Theatre Guyed, Saturday to Monday, Gay But Wistful, and in 1958, an autobiography, My Double Life – Adventures in Law & Letters. Quoting from My Double Life: “I awoke one morning with four lines of verse jingling in my head: Jack Spink was fond of drink, It was not precisely KubIa Khan, which I believe was composed under somewhat similar circumstances, but Bob Sherwood at Life paid me five dollars for it. This experience opened up new and alluring possibilities. If I could train my subconscious to work while I slept I could practice law in the daytime and turn out deathless literature at night -a most enchanting prospect.” Poets will be happy to know from his verse that it is possible to rhyme “quite merry at” with “proletariat,” and “career” with “brassiere.” Thais was one of the epic poems in Opera Guyed, his best-known book. This book is a delightful collection of humorous poems describing the stories of many operas in terms that the average guy could understand (“Guyed”). Another song came from his poem about the opera Carmen set to the tune of the song El Paso. CARMEN In Spain, where the courtly Castilian hidalgo Theater Guyed is a similar collection of poems about famous plays, including Oedipus Rex, OEDIPUS REX List to the story of Oedipus Rex, When Oedipus was but a babe, Rain, the story by W. Somerset Maugham of Sadie Thompson and the missionary, Reverend Davidson, RAIN On the isle of Pago Pago, and The Three Sisters Karamazov. THE THREE CHERRY SISTERS KARAMAZOV His name was Boris Makaloff If you want the full text of these and other songs from his poems, and the music that I have set them to, you can look here. Newman is said to have replied to George Gershwin’s question “I wonder if my music will be played a hundred years from now?” with the answer, “Yes, if you’re around to play it!” Quite a wit, he deserves to be better known to a later generation. |
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05 Jul 25 - 01:07 AM (#4225168) Subject: ADD: Thais (Newman Levy) From: Joe Offer This transcription is by Stewart Hendrickson of Seattle, one of the most astute folk music researchers I know (and he gave me a great tour of Seattle a few years back). https://www.stewarthendrickson.com/songs/Thais.html
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05 Jul 25 - 01:44 AM (#4225169) Subject: RE: Origins: Thais (Newman Levy) From: Joe Offer And for what it's worth, look at this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJsmn9-GSOU And this: (Saint) Thaïs of Alexandria Also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tha%C3%AFs. The earliest Thaïs may have been a lover of Alexander the Great. But which Thaïs were Newman Levy and Jules Massenet referring to? The Saint? I think so. |
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05 Jul 25 - 06:04 AM (#4225179) Subject: RE: Origins: Thais (Newman Levy) From: GerryM Here's a Latin poem about Thais, undoubtedly not the Thais under discussion here, that I learned many decades ago: Thais habet nigros, niveos Laecania dentes. Quae ratio est? Emptos haec habet, illa suos. In translation, Thais has black teeth, Laecania has snowy white teeth. What is the reason? This woman has bought teeth, that woman has her own. By the Roman poet, Martial. |
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06 Jul 25 - 04:20 PM (#4225255) Subject: RE: Origins: Thais (Newman Levy) From: Jack Horntip THAIS 1927. Immortalia pp.115-118. Although attributed to Newman Levy, it is a variant to the copyrighted version. I believe I have several more salacious versions of this song and perhaps a field recording. |
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06 Jul 25 - 05:17 PM (#4225256) Subject: RE: Origins: Thais (Newman Levy) From: Jack Horntip This sweet story [of Thais] has been adapted to the lyric With an English translation prior to 1920: Thais: Lyric Comedy in Three Acts and Seven Scenes See here: https://www.arundelbooks.com/pages/books/L011308/jules-massenet-louis-gallet/thais-lyric-comedy-in-three-acts-and-seven-scenes |