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18 Mar 15 - 04:10 PM (#3695124) Subject: BS: Celts: DNA study From: GUEST,# http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-31905764 Interesting read but likely something known by Brits for a long time. |
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18 Mar 15 - 04:29 PM (#3695127) Subject: RE: BS: Celts: DNA study From: Will Fly There have indeed been a few books on precisely this subject in the last few years - with the same conclusions. |
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18 Mar 15 - 05:39 PM (#3695140) Subject: RE: BS: Celts: DNA study From: gnu Wellll, I didn't read the whole thing but... "Prof Mark Robinson, an archaeologist who works with Prof Donnelly at Oxford University, said he was "very surprised" that Celtic groups in Cornwall, Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland had such different genetic patterns." Really, Sherlock? Read some history. |
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18 Mar 15 - 07:45 PM (#3695162) Subject: RE: BS: Celts: DNA study From: Big Al Whittle So Dick Miles and Jim Carroll really ARE related..... |
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18 Mar 15 - 07:58 PM (#3695164) Subject: RE: BS: Celts: DNA study From: Jim Carroll "So Dick Miles and Jim Carroll really ARE related." Wonder if shit-stirrers have a unique genetic pattern!! Grow up Al - it really isn't clever Jim Carroll |
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18 Mar 15 - 08:54 PM (#3695168) Subject: RE: BS: Celts: DNA study From: LadyJean I quote the biology teacher I had in high school, an Englishwoman. "The average IQ in the United States is 101. The average IQ in Great Britain is 98, I don't know why ours is lower, probably because we imported so many Irish." I do hope she read that study. That having been said, most of my forbearers were Irish. I have had conversations with people, who have said, "Oh, you're Irish, aren't you." Apparently there's something about my sense of humor, or mode of speaking that gives it away. |
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19 Mar 15 - 03:14 AM (#3695202) Subject: RE: BS: Celts: DNA study From: Teribus "A DNA study of Britons has shown that genetically there is not a unique Celtic group of people in the UK." I know quite a few people that are going to be really upset by that, myself I find it hilarious - hope they get used to the idea that we really are all "Jock Tamson's Bairns" after all. |
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19 Mar 15 - 03:27 AM (#3695205) Subject: RE: BS: Celts: DNA study From: Jim Carroll "I know quite a few people that are going to be really upset " Not as upset as when they learn that we're all Africans under the skin - even "Jock Tamson's Bairns" Jim Carroll |
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19 Mar 15 - 04:15 AM (#3695211) Subject: RE: BS: Celts: DNA study From: Mysha Hi LadyJean, The average IQ of any group is 100. That's by definition. I know she probably meant to say something else, but you have to wonder how valid that would be if she didn't have the knowledge to express it. I find this study a bit incomplete without the same data from Ireland. That, after all, is where that "western fringe" is that Mr. Donnelly is talking about. (With such a name, shouldn't he know better?) Plus, with Ireland having several waves of immigrants documented in their oral tradition, it would be interesting to know whether these would still show, and whether there was a traceable connection with Great Britain (other than Scoti moving to Caledonia and Scottish moving to Ulster). Bye Mysha |
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19 Mar 15 - 04:28 AM (#3695213) Subject: RE: BS: Celts: DNA study From: Musket You can carry out a similar study with similar results just by counting freckles and fiery tempers. Regarding average, I have an annoying habit when lecturing of mentioning the 6' tall man who drowned when wading through a river that was 5' deep on average. |
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19 Mar 15 - 05:22 AM (#3695228) Subject: RE: BS: Celts: DNA study From: Richard Bridge Obvs too stupid to swim. |
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19 Mar 15 - 08:32 AM (#3695251) Subject: RE: BS: Celts: DNA study From: GUEST,# Or he was walking on his hands. |
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19 Mar 15 - 08:40 AM (#3695253) Subject: RE: BS: Celts: DNA study From: Musket Or the story was designed for students clever enough not to point out literal aspects to convince me they happen to be intelligent. Some seh' good ol' Bridge. Some seh' fuck 'im. |
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19 Mar 15 - 12:07 PM (#3695293) Subject: RE: BS: Celts: DNA study From: mg The average score would not always be 100. Lots of factors. When i was at u neefoundland professors were always asking why newfie children tested out so high. Some would be cultural,.slme financial opplrtinity, enriched environment. Lots would be genetic..and what traits of intelligence the test was measuring. There are many types of intelligence that just dont get measured but are very important oe were to our ancestors..throwing a spear,.weaving a.waterproof basket, memorizing the genealogy of hundreds of generations. And the harsher the environment the more natural selection is going on. But it would not necessarily select for intelligence,,could be disease resistance, ability to conserve fat or whatever. |
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19 Mar 15 - 12:25 PM (#3695298) Subject: RE: BS: Celts: DNA study From: meself Financial opportunity, enriched environment - in Newfoundland?? |
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19 Mar 15 - 12:43 PM (#3695304) Subject: RE: BS: Celts: DNA study From: GUEST ..any tribalistic beliefs in genetic purity should easily fall apart when considering all throughout the early history of the British Isles, the waves of invading conquering armies brutally ravaging indigenous women village by village as 'the spoils of war'. .. let alone my wife's tribal female ancestors who most likely quite willingly knocked around with those lush swarthy looking Romans with their flash chariots fancy uniforms, and pockets stuffed full of coins....??? |
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19 Mar 15 - 01:37 PM (#3695309) Subject: RE: BS: Celts: DNA study From: GUEST,Allan Conn One of the scientests said he'd assumed there would be a uniform Celtic fringe! Why would you assume that. For instance the base population in both Scotland and England were the Britonnic tribes with admixtures added. Why would people in Scotland then be assumed to be genetically more like the Irish than the English? He was starting from a viewpoint that was flawed from the start. |
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19 Mar 15 - 02:05 PM (#3695311) Subject: RE: BS: Celts: DNA study From: Jim Carroll Can't really understand why this announcement has only just hit the fan. It was a casual topic of conversation 16 years ago here when we first moved to Ireland. One of the first things we noticed on moving here is that the only people who ever used the term 'Celtic' were visitors (usually Americans) and somebody who wanted to sell you a bodhran Jim Carroll |
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19 Mar 15 - 02:30 PM (#3695315) Subject: RE: BS: Celts: DNA study From: Stilly River Sage Published in the Journal Nature, the findings emerge from a detailed DNA analysis of 2,000 mostly middle-aged Caucasian people living across the UK. Grandparents - that actually isn't very far back. It may filter out modern immigration but does nothing to take into account waves of invasions, trade routes, ship travel, and movement along rail lines, etc. There is no Ur, except as a useful illustration or idea in philosophical discussions. The statement about the "average IQ score" has no basis in fact, mg. That poster regularly comes up with some odd facts that aren't in fact, facts. SRS |
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20 Mar 15 - 12:18 AM (#3695382) Subject: RE: BS: Celts: DNA study From: GUEST,ollaimh anyone who actually reads the whole article will see they they found unique dna groups in wales, cornwall, west Scotland an Ireland. they said they were surprised. this is the celtic dna profile, while the headline is totally misleading to these findings and most dna findings. in fact one researcher has found the "Ossian" gen he credits as the pictish original genotype. this gene is shared with a significant group in northern spain, which gives physical evidence to support the leabhear gabahla, the ancient irish history, which says the irish sailed from northern spain to take Ireland. the "celtcs" are indoeuropeans. there is a significant non indoeuropean gene grouping in the celtic fringe areas. the insular celts were always different from ther mainland. that they are not a race should surprise no one. celts did not every believe in race. that's a European great powers nationalist , and racist idea forwarded by the English foremost, next germans. celts are a linguistic and cultural group that has distinct dna profiles amongst them that appear to go back to before the last iceage, the Ossian gen type is probably the group of sapiens who survived the last ice age in spain. of course the idiots on mudcat will find all kinds of new ways to attack celtic culture(and African and native) using any possible strained interpretation of the actuall evidence. as did the bbc by not even reading their own article. |
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20 Mar 15 - 03:25 AM (#3695392) Subject: RE: BS: Celts: DNA study From: GUEST,Allan Conn There are differences throughout the islands with people in areas being similar to other people in said area! Well surprise surpise! However it says that they did not find that there was a single uniform unique Celtic group! ie it suggests for instance that the Cornish, Welsh, Irish and Scots are not one single uniform genetic type different from the supposed non Celts. Folks on mudcat have just been pointing out that it is not really a surprise to anyone. |
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20 Mar 15 - 04:31 AM (#3695406) Subject: RE: BS: Celts: DNA study From: Les in Chorlton I wonder if Alan Stivell cares |
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20 Mar 15 - 04:44 AM (#3695412) Subject: RE: BS: Celts: DNA study From: Musket Most of the "Celtic" areas are also "sheep shagging" areas. Might be onto something.... |
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20 Mar 15 - 06:06 AM (#3695431) Subject: RE: BS: Celts: DNA study From: GUEST "There are differences throughout the islands with people in areas being similar to other people in said area!" ... well the ancient Egyptian Pharaohs deliberately attempted to refine the purity of their bloodline through the practise of incest... so who know's what's been going on for centuries in the more isolated areas of the UK..??? "Most of the "Celtic" areas are also "sheep shagging" areas" .. at least sheep shagging momentarily takes the focus of attention off their sisters...??? |
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20 Mar 15 - 07:43 AM (#3695444) Subject: RE: BS: Celts: DNA study From: Les in Chorlton This study is probably one of the most detailed collections of evidence about people who live in the UK now and who their ancestors probably were. Have I made my point? |
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20 Mar 15 - 08:57 AM (#3695474) Subject: RE: BS: Celts: DNA study From: GUEST,sciencegeek well, I, for one, am a "pure blooded" American of Italian, Scots, Welsh & god know what else lineage... P) the human race is pretty much a mongrel collection of genes accumulated over 100 thousand years - give or take- we have been roaming the planet all that time and now it's taking even less time... so we may well be tota;;y homogenized by the end of this millenium... if we don't toast ourselves first. |
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20 Mar 15 - 09:55 AM (#3695484) Subject: RE: BS: Celts: DNA study From: GUEST People with chips on their shoulders rarely care about evidence Les. |
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20 Mar 15 - 11:40 AM (#3695511) Subject: RE: BS: Celts: DNA study From: Musket I like those science fiction pulp novels set a couple of thousand years in the future. Arthur C Clarke started the idea and others have followed. The whole human race is slightly coffee coloured.... Food for thought... |
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20 Mar 15 - 12:51 PM (#3695539) Subject: RE: BS: Celts: DNA study From: Thompson Oooh, plenty of prejudice here! I'd like to lay a couple of these ghosts. Irish people are not, in general, fiery-tempered. Take a look at an Irish football crowd and an English football crowd if you'd like evidence. Indeed, take a look at the ruder people posting on Mudcat and I doubt you'll find they're mostly Irish. And the love of sheep, or the allegation of it is generally found in all lonely sheep-farming areas. Freckles are not uncommon; I've seen them on black people. This DNA study is interesting, but I'm waiting to see what comes along next. DNA is an evolving science, and I expect the next discovery will be "Good heavens, there's a swathe of similar DNA from Iceland through Ireland, the north and west of Britain, across to France and down through Spain to north Africa!" And the one after that will be "Phooey, no such thing, nonsense." |
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20 Mar 15 - 01:15 PM (#3695542) Subject: RE: BS: Celts: DNA study From: GUEST,# National Geographic has a 'Test your DNA' kit for sale. http://shop.nationalgeographic.com/ngs/browse/productDetail.jsp?productId=2001246&gsk |
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20 Mar 15 - 01:41 PM (#3695550) Subject: RE: BS: Celts: DNA study From: GUEST "National Geographic has a 'Test your DNA' kit for sale. " But what if the results show traces of sheep DNA !!!??? |
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20 Mar 15 - 03:43 PM (#3695587) Subject: RE: BS: Celts: DNA study From: GUEST,# If ya sound like any of the top row . . . |
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21 Mar 15 - 06:13 AM (#3695696) Subject: RE: BS: Celts: DNA study From: Teribus Thank YOU GUEST,# best laugh of the week - Brilliant !!! |
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21 Mar 15 - 08:04 PM (#3695818) Subject: RE: BS: Celts: DNA study From: LadyJean People say, "Oh you're Irish", because I have a sick sense of humor and can talk the hind leg off a donkey. I still remember going to hear Seumas Kennedy with Azzizi, who is African American. He told the same kind of jokes my mother's family told at the dinner table. I could smell the punchlines comming, and hear my white haired grandma chuckling over them. But poor Azzizi. His brand of humor came as kind of a shock to her. |
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22 Mar 15 - 05:39 PM (#3696023) Subject: RE: BS: Celts: DNA study From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler I found it interesting when the series "Meet the Ancestors" did a facial reconstruction from an iron age skull excavated near Weston-super-Mare. The resultant face strongly resembled my great uncle who farmed the land about two miles from the burial site, and yes, the family had lived in the area as far back as we know about. |
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23 Mar 15 - 02:52 AM (#3696075) Subject: RE: BS: Celts: DNA study From: Musket Weston-super-Mare? Could be worse. He could have looked like Jeffrey Archer. I come from Creswell, the home of Creswell Crags. I remember a TV presenter stood in the Crags speaking to camera saying "the missing link could be found here.". I thought of an old girlfriend of my brother's and thought "he's out by two miles." |
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25 Mar 15 - 03:24 AM (#3696615) Subject: RE: BS: Celts: DNA study From: Thompson And sure enough… days later a genetic study of Britain "reveals much older movements and separations of people, such as the ancient ancestry of the Celtic people of North Wales who are probably descended from some of the oldest inhabitants of Britain, and the clear genetic division between the people of Cornwall and Devon that still persists along the county boundary of the River Tamar". |
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25 Mar 15 - 02:51 PM (#3696834) Subject: RE: BS: Celts: DNA study From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link you must have felt a bit sheepish posting that baaaaad disco on a folk forum !. |