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03 Sep 15 - 01:09 AM (#3734953) Subject: BS: 'costermonger' idle curiosity From: GUEST,leeneia I was reading myself to sleep with a Wodehouse novel when I came across a reference to "a costermonger calling attention to his Brussels sprouts." I realized that I have known the word costermonger (fruit and vegetable seller) for years but have never known what a coster is. Any well-read person will have learned various words of that type - costermonger, ironmonger, warmonger, hatemonger. Clearly, mongers are getting more disreputable as time passes. Come to think of it, what is "mong"? Just so you won't lie awake worrying about this, I looked it up in my unabridged dictionary. Coster- comes from costard, a kind of apple. "Mong" goes back to the Anglo Saxon (with a nod to some Latin verb) and means to trade or barter. As early at the 17th C it was associated with the slave trade and was beginning to get a bad reputation. "Mong" shows that not all four-letter Anglo-Saxon words have to be written with stars replacing the vowels. It might be interesting to follow up on costard and see if we get to Custard and maybe even the Battle of the Little Big Horn, but not tonight. |
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03 Sep 15 - 01:37 AM (#3734957) Subject: RE: BS: 'costermonger' idle curiosity From: MartinRyan When I was a kid, in '50's Dublin, I used to see rather unsavoury lorries emblazoned with the name of the local "fellmonger"... Haven't come across the word for many years. Regards |
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03 Sep 15 - 01:48 AM (#3734958) Subject: RE: BS: 'costermonger' idle curiosity From: Seamus Kennedy From Molly Malone "She was a fishmonger, and sure, 'twas no wonder, Her father and mother they both monged fish too," At least, that's what I sing.... |
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03 Sep 15 - 03:12 AM (#3734966) Subject: RE: BS: 'costermonger' idle curiosity From: Jim Carroll The word originates from 'costard-monger' - a seller of apples. Jim Carroll |
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03 Sep 15 - 03:51 AM (#3734969) Subject: RE: BS: 'costermonger' idle curiosity From: MartinRyan According to SOED, "costard" derives, via Anglo-Norman, from a Latin word for a "rib". The apple concerned has a ribbed appearance. Regards |
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03 Sep 15 - 04:43 AM (#3734981) Subject: RE: BS: 'costermonger' idle curiosity From: Mr Red I would expect Colonel George Armstrong's antecedents got their name from something like apple/seller and it morphed into Custer. ancestry.co.uk agrees like Forster came from Forrester. Before many could read or write, spelling was phonetic at best, dependant on accents and not that important. |
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03 Sep 15 - 07:25 AM (#3734998) Subject: RE: BS: 'costermonger' idle curiosity From: Michael So is the coffee shop a Coffeecosta? Mike |
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03 Sep 15 - 08:03 AM (#3735002) Subject: RE: BS: 'costermonger' idle curiosity From: GUEST,Noreen at work According to SOED, "costard" derives, via Anglo-Norman, from a Latin word for a "rib" Ah- hence the intercostal muscles between the ribs. |
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03 Sep 15 - 08:19 AM (#3735009) Subject: RE: BS: 'costermonger' idle curiosity From: Rapparee Don't forget "whoremonger." |
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03 Sep 15 - 10:41 AM (#3735038) Subject: RE: BS: 'costermonger' idle curiosity From: GUEST,leeneia Thanks, all, for the further information. Martin, what was the fellmonger selling? I thought a fell was some kind of landform. Michael, a coffee shop would be a coffeemonger. A coffeecosta would be a place that either: puts ribs in your coffee - an unlikely proposition, or sells coffee and ribs - i.e., a barbecue joint. I had forgotten that Molly Malone was a fishmonger. My unabridged dictionary listed maybe 60 words ending in 'monger,' some of them pretty odd. What might a punctiliomonger be? |
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03 Sep 15 - 10:55 AM (#3735042) Subject: RE: BS: 'costermonger' idle curiosity From: Doug Chadwick From Molly Malone "She was a fishmonger, and sure, 'twas no wonder, Her father and mother they both monged fish too," At least, that's what I sing.... "She was a fishmonger, and sure, 'twas no wonder, For so were her father and mother before," is the version that I know. The DT has much the same but with "father and mother" reversed to "mother and father". A fellmonger sells animal hides. DC |
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03 Sep 15 - 11:02 AM (#3735044) Subject: RE: BS: 'costermonger' idle curiosity From: Reinhard Fell is the German word for fur, too. |
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03 Sep 15 - 11:11 AM (#3735047) Subject: RE: BS: 'costermonger' idle curiosity From: Doug Chadwick A punctiliomonger would appear to be someone who insists on scrupulous attention to detail, though I'm open to correction if I'm wrong. DC |
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03 Sep 15 - 11:24 AM (#3735054) Subject: RE: BS: 'costermonger' idle curiosity From: MartinRyan GUESTleenia Yes - a fellmonger dealt in animal skins and hides. The "fell" part turns up in a number of Northern European languages - and is probably related to English "pelt", also. Where I went to school in Dublin in the '50's, the smell that permeated the classroom depended on the wind... From one direction it would be spent hops and other enticing odours from Guinness' Brewery. From the other, the less pleasant aroma from a knackers yard a mile or two away. I suspect I'm remembering the lorry signs from the latter. Regards |
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03 Sep 15 - 04:42 PM (#3735118) Subject: RE: BS: 'costermonger' idle curiosity From: Penny S. A bit of idle searching threw up: cheesemonger gossipmonger newsmonger rumourmonger scandalmonger scaremonger Only one of which seems likely to be historic, and related to the root of selling things. |
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03 Sep 15 - 06:54 PM (#3735162) Subject: RE: BS: 'costermonger' idle curiosity From: Rapparee "Whoremonger" appears in "Measure for Measure" as does "fleshmonger," a word that goes back at least to 1518. |
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03 Sep 15 - 09:40 PM (#3735183) Subject: RE: BS: 'costermonger' idle curiosity From: GUEST,leeneia Thanks, all, for the elucidation of 'fellmonger.' Penny, your words, except for cheesemonger, show how mongers are looked askance at nowadays. |
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03 Sep 15 - 09:54 PM (#3735185) Subject: RE: BS: 'costermonger' idle curiosity From: Seamus Kennedy A punctiliomonger would be someone who can't tell the difference between the original lyrics, and a teeny bit of satire. |
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04 Sep 15 - 01:42 AM (#3735203) Subject: RE: BS: 'costermonger' idle curiosity From: Big Al Whittle WHEN THE COSTER'S FINISHED JUMPING ON HIS MOTHER (on his mother) HE LOVES TO LIE A'BASKING IN THE SUN (in the sun) AH, TAKE ONE CONSIDERATION WITH ANOTHER (with another) A POLICEMAN'S LOT IS NOT A HAPPY ONE AHHH WHEN CONSTABULARY DUTY'S TO BE DONE, TO BE DONE, A POLICEMAN'S LOT IS NOT A HAPPY ONE (happy one) (from Pirates of Penzance by Gilbert and Sullivan). |
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04 Sep 15 - 04:15 AM (#3735214) Subject: RE: BS: 'costermonger' idle curiosity From: MartinRyan "Whoremonger" featured regularly in Patrick O Brian's novels IIRC. Regards |
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04 Sep 15 - 05:19 AM (#3735230) Subject: RE: BS: 'costermonger' idle curiosity From: Big Al Whittle must go into Tesco today and say to the lady in the deli, am i addressing the cheesemonger madam? |
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04 Sep 15 - 05:29 AM (#3735231) Subject: RE: BS: 'costermonger' idle curiosity From: GUEST,HiLo Well , off topic , but also out Of curiosity, where did " haberdasher" come from ? |
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04 Sep 15 - 08:04 AM (#3735285) Subject: RE: BS: 'costermonger' idle curiosity From: Rumncoke Perhaps from the German - hab er dass, herr? |
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04 Sep 15 - 08:50 AM (#3735299) Subject: RE: BS: 'costermonger' idle curiosity From: Reinhard According to Wikipedia, haberdasher "is most likely derived from the Anglo-Norman hapertas, meaning small ware." And, as leeneia said how mongers are looked askance at nowadays, would a used car salesman be a carmonger? |
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04 Sep 15 - 09:09 AM (#3735306) Subject: RE: BS: 'costermonger' idle curiosity From: Doug Chadwick "Ironmonger" is still an honourable trade. DC |
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04 Sep 15 - 09:54 AM (#3735318) Subject: RE: BS: 'costermonger' idle curiosity From: GUEST,leeneia True. And there's nothing wrong with fishmonger or cheesemonger, either. Reinhard, I like 'carmonger.' |
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04 Sep 15 - 10:00 AM (#3735321) Subject: RE: BS: 'costermonger' idle curiosity From: GUEST,crazy little woman All these years I've wondered about that line from "A Policeman's Lot," I thought it had something to do with accosting a victim. |