|
20 Sep 15 - 12:12 PM (#3738515) Subject: Who has done the most for folk music? From: GUEST,linwil After reading a thread about the best folkies to come from Greater Manchester it set me thinking. Who has done the most to improve/keep alive/advance (etc) british folk music over the last 40 years? And who has done the least? 3 to start Mike Harding Malcolm Storey Steeleye span |
|
20 Sep 15 - 12:25 PM (#3738517) Subject: RE: Who has done the most for folk music? From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker "least" is probably easier and more fun to answer than "most"...😜 |
|
20 Sep 15 - 01:00 PM (#3738522) Subject: RE: Who has done the most for folk music? From: Big Al Whittle folk.....? |
|
20 Sep 15 - 01:01 PM (#3738523) Subject: RE: Who has done the most for folk music? From: GUEST,# Just the UK? |
|
20 Sep 15 - 01:03 PM (#3738524) Subject: RE: Who has done the most for folk music? From: Bill D The title says "folk music"... then you want to limit it to only British? Sheesh... Well, I suppose that does limit the choices to only a few hundred... *grin* |
|
20 Sep 15 - 02:36 PM (#3738552) Subject: RE: Who has done the most for folk music? From: GUEST,Mary Katherine That's like apples and oranges, though, isn't it? One might say that Martin Carthy has done a great deal via his performances and recordings to help spread the word. But then there are the non-performers, who do so much to help perpetuate the music in a different way via their writing and radio shows. |
|
20 Sep 15 - 02:38 PM (#3738553) Subject: RE: Who has done the most for folk music? From: GUEST,padgett Most~ last 40 years, say 1974 on~ Jim LLoyd Martin Carthy Nic Jones Shirley Collins Peter Bellamy Ewan MacColl Bert Lloyd Keith Marsden Harry Boardman Maddy Prior Ray |
|
20 Sep 15 - 02:39 PM (#3738554) Subject: RE: Who has done the most for folk music? From: GUEST,Bert Lonnie Donnegan. |
|
20 Sep 15 - 03:15 PM (#3738561) Subject: RE: Who has done the most for folk music? From: GUEST,henryp That's a good start. Add Roy Palmer - and song and music collectors. And Doc Rowe - and other folklorists. And Ian Russell and his Christmas carols. And Dave Mallinson - and song and music publishers. And Ian Anderson - and folk magazine editors, staff and contributors. And folk club and festival organisers and their audiences. And all performers who keep the songs and music alive. |
|
20 Sep 15 - 03:29 PM (#3738565) Subject: RE: Who has done the most for folk music? From: The Sandman woody guthrie. |
|
20 Sep 15 - 03:33 PM (#3738567) Subject: RE: Who has done the most for folk music? From: GUEST Alan Lomax, Séamus Ennis, Tom Munnelly, Frank Harte |
|
20 Sep 15 - 03:52 PM (#3738573) Subject: RE: Who has done the most for folk music? From: GUEST Aston Dunbottom from Wiltonhampshire. He's a true lad and can always be counted on for some right jolly folking. |
|
20 Sep 15 - 03:59 PM (#3738575) Subject: RE: Who has done the most for folk music? From: Steve Shaw I'll go with Woody too. And Planxty. |
|
20 Sep 15 - 05:02 PM (#3738578) Subject: RE: Who has done the most for folk music? From: Raggytash The Spinners deserve a mention |
|
20 Sep 15 - 05:20 PM (#3738582) Subject: RE: Who has done the most for folk music? From: GUEST Good Soldier Schweik |
|
20 Sep 15 - 06:17 PM (#3738593) Subject: RE: Who has done the most for folk music? From: olddude Seeger |
|
20 Sep 15 - 06:44 PM (#3738607) Subject: RE: Who has done the most for folk music? From: GUEST,allan conn You know as someone about the age of 55 in my youth in Scotland if I thought of folk music, well at least songs, then I thought of the Corries. |
|
20 Sep 15 - 06:56 PM (#3738612) Subject: RE: Who has done the most for folk music? From: Steve Shaw Yeah, the Corries. Wonderful. I could get really controversial here and turn the thread on its head, suggesting who has done folk music a disservice. I can't really listen to English folk music at all, bar a few shining exceptions like Nic Jones and Shirley Collins. Chris Wood and Andy Cutting, marvellous. A lot of Northumbrian music is wonderful. Dick Gaughan, so good, and Scottish fiddle music. I exclude Irish traditional music, which, in an odd way that I can't quite put my finger on, I can't call folk music. I can't think of any English family band or supergroup that has ever done it for me at all. Which is my opinion only, so I'll stop right there! |
|
20 Sep 15 - 07:55 PM (#3738620) Subject: RE: Who has done the most for folk music? From: BanjoRay English? The Watersons and the Coppers |
|
20 Sep 15 - 08:36 PM (#3738629) Subject: RE: Who has done the most for folk music? From: Steve Shaw Bit of a conundrum here. If you've "done the most", it must mean that your music has been very widely disseminated, not just stayed local or "niche'". The trouble with that is that you are then more likely than not to have become commercial. Which means you may risk being put on a pedestal or lionised. Which may mean that you have to put "commercial" at the top of your agenda and stray somewhat away "from your roots". Your CDs will be professionally mastered with snazzy packaging and sell for fourteen or fifteen quid. Don't you think that the people who have done most for folk music are the thousands of ordinary people who turn up of a Friday night at local pub back-rooms to have a go and endure everyone else who turns up to have a go? And the hard-working buggers who run the clubs or sessions, getting the best guests they can and putting them up on their sofas? Kudos to them, say I! |
|
20 Sep 15 - 10:01 PM (#3738635) Subject: RE: Who has done the most for folk music? From: GUEST,Guest Francis James child |
|
21 Sep 15 - 02:31 AM (#3738656) Subject: RE: Who has done the most for folk music? From: GUEST All the unsung folk club promoters and festival organisers who for no reward publicise folk music for the love of it. |
|
21 Sep 15 - 02:38 AM (#3738659) Subject: RE: Who has done the most for folk music? From: Big Al Whittle good job there isn't a prize for it. all the same if there was a folkie god, and he made sure we all got our deserts. you wouldn't really want to be floating around on a cloud with some of these people. |
|
21 Sep 15 - 04:05 AM (#3738673) Subject: RE: Who has done the most for folk music? From: theleveller Don't know what's meant by 'most' but if you mean increasing its popularity in Britain, I'd have to say Bellowhead, Kate Rusby and Seth Lakeman. And probably Oysterband and Show of Hands. I expect we'll now have the usual 'what is folk?' debate. |
|
21 Sep 15 - 04:52 AM (#3738679) Subject: RE: Who has done the most for folk music? From: Steve Shaw Yeah, we might! |
|
21 Sep 15 - 04:57 AM (#3738681) Subject: RE: Who has done the most for folk music? From: Bonzo3legs Ashley Hutchings without a doubt. |
|
21 Sep 15 - 05:39 AM (#3738695) Subject: RE: Who has done the most for folk music? From: The Sandman What is Folk? does it include improvisation and when it does does it become Jazz? |
|
21 Sep 15 - 05:42 AM (#3738698) Subject: RE: Who has done the most for folk music? From: Kampervan I know that they're pushing for independence in the North East, but The Wilsons still count as English and they've done a lot for folk music. |
|
21 Sep 15 - 06:33 AM (#3738716) Subject: RE: Who has done the most for folk music? From: BobKnight How about all the travelling people - especially those from the North East of Scotland - Jeannie, Lizzie, Stanley, Lucy, Elizabeth, and the Stewarts of Blair. |
|
21 Sep 15 - 06:42 AM (#3738720) Subject: RE: Who has done the most for folk music? From: GUEST,henryp Tom Anderson and his Shetland fiddlers Tony Engle and the Topic record label Bill Leader and his Leader and Trailer record labels Paul Adams and the Fellside record label Nic Jones for everything |
|
21 Sep 15 - 07:19 AM (#3738728) Subject: RE: Who has done the most for folk music? From: Vic Smith Bob Knight wrote:- "How about all the travelling people - especially those from the North East of Scotland - Jeannie, Lizzie, Stanley, Lucy, Elizabeth, and the Stewarts of Blair. Then there's Jane Turriff, Davey Stewart, Blin. Robin Hutchison, Betsy White. Charlotte Higgins, Andra Stewart, Big Willie McPhee. Sheila Stewart, Bella Higgins, Jess Smith, Duncan McPhee, Toby Stewart, Christine Stewart, Harry Duffy, Isaac Higgins, Duncan Williamson, Jimmy MacBeath, Stop me somebody.... Cathie Higgins, Jock Higgins, Maggie Stewart, Geordie Robertson, Bryce Whyte, It's your fault, Bob, you get me started Jean Stewart, Ned Stewart, Gabrielle Robertson, Anthony Robertson..... |
|
21 Sep 15 - 07:27 AM (#3738730) Subject: RE: Who has done the most for folk music? From: Stu Someone most of us have never heard of, in a pub playing and singing. |
|
21 Sep 15 - 07:39 AM (#3738734) Subject: RE: Who has done the most for folk music? From: BobKnight Sorry Vic, Hey you forgot to mention me, but then I haven't done much yet. ;) Thanks for mentioning the rest - a lot of them I didn't know, although many are/were relatives. |
|
21 Sep 15 - 07:50 AM (#3738737) Subject: RE: Who has done the most for folk music? From: GUEST,Robin Hunt As individuals they are too numerous to list but the real heroes are the people who hav promoted folk music over the years, running folk clubs, festivals & the like. without these people many performers wolud not have had the chance to show thier talents. I think it`s a real shame that the folk clubs have greately deminished over the years. I & many others served our aprenticeship in these places. Nowadays young hopefuls have to go on X factor & look what that produces. No substitute for the folk background. |
|
21 Sep 15 - 08:24 AM (#3738748) Subject: RE: Who has done the most for folk music? From: Richard Mellish At least so far as England is concerned, EFDSS's gold badges are a fair indication. |
|
21 Sep 15 - 10:19 AM (#3738785) Subject: RE: Who has done the most for folk music? From: GUEST,Fred McCormick How come ain't nobody but Ray Padgett giving it out for Ewan MaColl? Yes I know he could be tiresome and dictatorial, to say nothing of argumentative. And I'm also aware of just how far away my ideas on folk music have moved from MacColl's since the days when I used to imbibe every single word he said without question. But he was a true pioneer with a list of achievements which would dwarf those of practically everyone else in folk music. Plus it's in the nature of the present to argue with the past. If MacColl hadn't made such bold pronouncements in the first place, where would that have left those of us who came after him? Plus, there's Bert Lloyd of course, and Alan Lomax and Hamish Henderson and many many more. Then there's that tall stringy fella with the adam's apple. Oh yeahh, Pete Seeger. Now where would any of us be without him? |
|
21 Sep 15 - 10:38 AM (#3738792) Subject: RE: Who has done the most for folk music? From: GUEST,R oger Knowles America? Mike Seeger! |
|
21 Sep 15 - 10:38 AM (#3738793) Subject: RE: Who has done the most for folk music? From: MGM·Lion I endorse all those named in Fred's post above; and would add Alan Lomax's father John, and Pete Seeger's stepmother Ruth, upon whose influences they built. ≈M≈ |
|
21 Sep 15 - 10:42 AM (#3738794) Subject: RE: Who has done the most for folk music? From: MGM·Lion But is enough credit being given here to the early collectors and compilers? What of Baring-Gould, Sharp, the Hammonds, Gardiner, Gavin Greig...? ≈M≈ |
|
21 Sep 15 - 10:52 AM (#3738798) Subject: RE: Who has done the most for folk music? From: MGM·Lion Or compilers of even earlier collections: Pepys, Percy, Roxburghe, Douce, Madden, Scott, Harley, D'Urfey...? |
|
21 Sep 15 - 11:03 AM (#3738803) Subject: RE: Who has done the most for folk music? From: GUEST,Fred McCormick The intellectual and political problems I have with MacColl pale into insignificance compared with the problems which the early collectors throw up. There's no point in going into them here, or to take issue with the elitism and nationalism and neo-Darwinism which many of these collectors displayed. But, as with MacColl, their pronunciations were products of their time. That doesn't mean we should reject everything they said out of hand. But neither does it mean we shouldn't be critical. The point is, not to destroy the past, but to critically analyse it and to come up with new and better explanations. And it's worth remembering that, without the pioneering efforts of these people, we would have virtually no idea of the extraordinary crock of riches which their efforts garnered. |
|
21 Sep 15 - 11:18 AM (#3738806) Subject: RE: Who has done the most for folk music? From: GUEST,Rockaday Johnny tom Paley, Mike Seeger, Ralph Rinzler, John Cohen Pete Seeger |
|
21 Sep 15 - 11:30 AM (#3738808) Subject: RE: Who has done the most for folk music? From: The Sandman somebody very kindly mentioned me, and unusually,i must show some humility, mentioning me is truly ridiculous. |
|
21 Sep 15 - 12:04 PM (#3738811) Subject: RE: Who has done the most for folk music? From: MGM·Lion Find above no specific mention of Bob Copper, tho one ref to the family. But surely his must be one of the pre-eminent claims? ≈M≈ |
|
21 Sep 15 - 12:31 PM (#3738820) Subject: RE: Who has done the most for folk music? From: GUEST,HiLo The Watersons, Martin Carthy, Frankie Armstrong and those three wonderful folk rock bands who brought folk to a younger generation at the time, Fairport, Steeleye and Pentangle. June Tabor also deserves a mention. In A,erica, Joan Baez, she brought folk and ballads into the mainstream and many others followed. |
|
21 Sep 15 - 01:31 PM (#3738835) Subject: RE: Who has done the most for folk music? From: GUEST Toodle Edmundsson Jockie McMasters Skip Rangle Marcia Featherbum (Strops) Lloyd Benwhittle (Jr.) |
|
21 Sep 15 - 02:18 PM (#3738848) Subject: RE: Who has done the most for folk music? From: Joe Offer I gotta be loyal: Max Spiegel and Dick Greenhaus. I have an aversion to what I call "superlatives threads." We have a lot of threads about the best or worst this or that, and there's never an answer. There a lots of bests and lots of worsts - and no doubt, some deserving person will be forgotten. I'd rather see whom people would recommend, and why. But in the meantime, I'll stick with Max and Dick. -Joe- |
|
21 Sep 15 - 02:20 PM (#3738850) Subject: RE: Who has done the most for folk music? From: Jack Blandiver The bloke who invented the electronic guitar tuner. |
|
21 Sep 15 - 02:51 PM (#3738857) Subject: RE: Who has done the most for folk music? From: Mr Red Flatt & Scruggs for popularising the Banjo Sean Ó Riada for making the bodhran so acceptable that people really really believe has been around since before the 1950s (:-) (Wiki cites the known documents as effectively tambourines and it was still a tambourine in the 1940s it implies, though method of playing was fingers and then cipin) |
|
21 Sep 15 - 03:13 PM (#3738869) Subject: RE: Who has done the most for folk music? From: Andy7 My friend 'A' (and many others like him). Some years ago, he introduced me to folk clubs and festivals, and inspired me to pick up the guitar and start singing again. He's done the most for folk music in my life! |
|
21 Sep 15 - 05:17 PM (#3738894) Subject: RE: Who has done the most for folk music? From: GUEST,Malcolm The Wilson Family of Teesside, guests at many folk clubs and festivals home and abroad, while running their own folk club for forty years. |
|
21 Sep 15 - 06:14 PM (#3738915) Subject: RE: Who has done the most for folk music? From: Jack Campin The Queen Mother. Who made sure that Scottish dance music got played on the radio, and hence made other kinds of traditional music acceptable to the British media. |
|
21 Sep 15 - 08:12 PM (#3738944) Subject: RE: Who has done the most for folk music? From: GUEST,Guest Amazingly apart from the very first posting when Malcolm Storey was mentioned all the other names given are of people who gained financially to a greater or lesser extent from their involvement. UM! |
|
21 Sep 15 - 11:26 PM (#3738961) Subject: RE: Who has done the most for folk music? From: Bert In Britain one must mention EFDSS, SIFD and BAASDC; despite their individual limitations Folk music would not be the same without them. |
|
22 Sep 15 - 06:18 AM (#3739007) Subject: RE: Who has done the most for folk music? From: The Sandman guest guest, you missed this [post Subject: RE: Who has done the most for folk music? From: GUEST Date: 21 Sep 15 - 02:31 AM All the unsung folk club promoters and festival organisers who for no reward publicise folk music for the love of it. anyway how do we know whether Malcolm gained financially, i agree its doubtful that he did but we co not know, but surely he is one of the unsung festival organisers, so why are you so busy going on about him? it is a little unusual,after all his contribution is worthy but no worthier that john taylor or alan bell or alan castle, all of whom organise or have organised festivals for many years. |
|
22 Sep 15 - 06:20 AM (#3739009) Subject: RE: Who has done the most for folk music? From: The Sandman furthermore i dont think tom munnelly made any financial gain. how about Jim Carroll |
|
22 Sep 15 - 03:49 PM (#3739144) Subject: RE: Who has done the most for folk music? From: GUEST,Malcolm Storey Leave me out of your ramblings please. |
|
22 Sep 15 - 04:14 PM (#3739146) Subject: RE: Who has done the most for folk music? From: GUEST,Desi C British has to be Ewan MColl but worldwide it must be Pete Seeger |
|
23 Sep 15 - 03:52 AM (#3739226) Subject: RE: Who has done the most for folk music? From: Jim Carroll I've always found that attempting to attribute accolades like this to one individual a little pointless The older I get, the more I think back with gratitude to all the people who have left their fingerprints over my life as far as my love of folk music is concerned - all for different reasons. MacColl and Seeger would top my personal list, both certainly for the pleasure I have got from their singing and for convincing me that if you were going to sing the songs, you needed to put in the time, effort and thought, "because they're worth it" (as the cosmetics ad says). Ewan for making me aware that it was worth lifting the corner and looking under the songs to find all the things that they carried with them and Peggy for opening the world of American balladry up to me - I'm reaping the benefits of that one at present as I archive our collection of Library of Congress recordings. Which leads on to Alan Lomax, who did much to put the songs into a social context, and nudged all those Brits who were trying to be shadows of Woodie Guthrie into opening put our own National repertoires. Bert Lloyd, who showed us complex and how skilful folk singing could be through the international "simple" singers with programmes like 'The Lament' and 'Folk Music Virtuoso' and 'Songs of the People' Sharp, Child, Greig and Duncan... and all the other pioneers who gave us the raw material, and Bronson and other academics who made musical sense of it all. Then, again personally, Travellers like Mary Delaney and Mikeen McCarthy, Clareman and women like Tom Lenihan, Martin Reidy and Nora Cleary, and quiet, self-effacing Walter Pardon, all of whom sucked us into the soul of folk-song and showed us what made them tick and why they were so important. And, of course, all those who showed unhesitating, open-handed generosity in sharing their time, knowledge and opinions in passing on their songs and ideas on something that has filled most of my life with pleasure and interest. Couldn't possibly put the blame on one individual. Jim Carroll |
|
23 Sep 15 - 08:01 AM (#3739267) Subject: RE: Who has done the most for folk music? From: The Sandman "I've always found that attempting to attribute accolades like this to one individual a little pointless" Spot on, Jim. |
|
23 Sep 15 - 08:10 AM (#3739269) Subject: RE: Who has done the most for folk music? From: MGM·Lion But, dear friends Jim & Dick: I don't think the thread name or the OP necessarily require just one named individual; but rather a list of nominations of the sort we have got. I should be loth to try and name just one person, but see nothing wrong with soliciting suggestions as to all those who should be particularly remembered for having contributed to the benefit of Folk. The fact that I drew attention to Bob Copper above doesn't mean that I would wish Ewan or Bert or Bishop Percy or Sir Walter Scott to suffer any neglect or disrespect as a consequence of my having mentioned him. They are all, surely, among those [note the plural] who have "done the most for folk music". ≈M≈ |
|
23 Sep 15 - 10:23 AM (#3739308) Subject: RE: Who has done the most for folk music? From: Jim Carroll Wasn't intending to criticise Mike and I certainly would include Bob Copper among the great and the good of folk, but all too often these threads can become fanzines where the superstars take centre stage and the movers and shakers get lost in their shadows Jim Carroll |
|
23 Sep 15 - 11:06 AM (#3739321) Subject: RE: Who has done the most for folk music? From: MGM·Lion Know what you mean. But I can't bring myself to regard this as a particularly objectionable thread. ≈M≈ |
|
23 Sep 15 - 11:10 AM (#3739323) Subject: RE: Who has done the most for folk music? From: dick greenhaus THere was a previously-unmentioned Burl Ives |
|
23 Sep 15 - 12:26 PM (#3739334) Subject: RE: Who has done the most for folk music? From: Steve Shaw I absolutely agree with Jim. If this were instead about who's done most for traditional Irish music, we'd possibly be saying "all those people who play it" and we might even be giving the expats and yanks an honourable mention for keeping it alive during the leaner years of the early twentieth century. I doubt whether we'd be so inclined to be naming names. Well one or two maybe. Cue Jim disagreeing! |
|
26 Sep 15 - 12:37 PM (#3739908) Subject: RE: Who has done the most for folk music? From: GUEST,CupOfTea, no cookies I'd enthusiastically add my vote to Promoters of Folk Music - many, many, many, and so few of them known outside their own bailiwick. It's not just concerts, and clubs, but those who teach, host/anchor singing sessions, tune sessions, folk dances/ceilis, feature the music on TV or Radio - and now websites (Thanks, Max!) - The whole support infrastructure that makes it possible for us to know of, hear, or meet the people to whom folk music is an intrinsic part of themselves. Who comes to mind as the carriers of the tradition with whole life involvement: All the Seegers : Ruth Crawford, Mike, Peggy, Tony - Pete gets the most note, but the others are significant Martin Carthy - every decent guitar player or ballad singer I've met revers the man. Sandy & Caroline Paton - singers, sources, promoters, support and encouragment Peter Barnes - made English Country Dance music easily available to all of us who will never play as beautifully as he Jean Ritchie - there are chapters on how important she's been right here on Mudcat Frank Harte - find an Irish trad singer who DIDN'T get at least one song from him, and I'll eat my hat. Lou Killen - in so many ways, in so many situations, for so many years John Roberts & Tony Barrand - who pretty much define a genre of their own. The Armstrong Family of Chicago - Gerry, George and their daughters. Art Thieme, of course. My list doesn't include large swathes of tradition that aren't as close to my heart, but I know they're out there in cajun, old time, swing, western, early county, world music outside the US... we've a debt far and wide. I hope they all get the thanks they deserve while they live. Joanne In Cleveland |
|
26 Sep 15 - 05:54 PM (#3739975) Subject: RE: Who has done the most for folk music? From: GUEST,theleveller My vote would go to the entire equine race, without whom folk music as we know it would not exist. |
|
26 Sep 15 - 06:58 PM (#3739990) Subject: RE: Who has done the most for folk music? From: GUEST,Anne Neilson I'd rather rephrase the question as 'Who has had a significant influence in folk music?' -- in which case my answer would include all those fabulous influential people who turned up in young people's lives at just the right time. And it will be different for everyone! For myself, that would be Norman Buchan, my English teacher at secondary school, who established a Ballads Club at my Scottish school in 1957 and was influential in introducing us to the music of Jeannie Robertson, Jimmy McBeath, Pete Seeger and the Weavers, Ewan MacColl and the radio ballads, Hamish Henderson and his collecting (Lucy Stewart particularly) -- plus an awareness of the important collectors from the past. Before I had left school I had seen concerts by the Weavers, Pete Seeger, Cisco Houston, Rambling Jack Elliot, Jeannie Robertson, Flora McNeil etc. etc. and was well aware of performers like Davy Stewart and the Stewarts of Blair. So, my answer would have to be - anyone who has opened the ears of young people and given them a passion for this particular kind of music (which I still pursue 58 years later!). |