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20 Sep 15 - 05:15 PM (#3738579) Subject: please take off those electronic tuners! From: Andy7 One of my new pet hates is the large number of guitar players at folk clubs that leave their electronic tuners attached to the ends of their instruments. Do you keep the kettle in your hand while you're drinking the mug of tea it just helped to make? Of course not, that kettle's part in the tea-making is over! So please, take off the tuner before you perform your song. You tuned your guitar already - and yes, it's perfectly tuned! - so what's that tuner doing still stuck on the end of your instrument? I am a fan of useful technology; and electronic tuners are so much easier to use, and more accurate, than pitch pipes. I use mine all the time. But a guitar is a real work of art. And to me, leaving a bit of electronic plastic stuck on the end while you're performing a song somehow grates. I know it doesn't affect the sound; but it just looks ugly! Does anyone else feel the same? |
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20 Sep 15 - 05:18 PM (#3738581) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: GUEST,matt milton I doubt it |
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20 Sep 15 - 05:25 PM (#3738584) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: TheSnail Quite agree. I saw one recently that was not only attached but switched on giving a light show and constant indication of what notes were being played and how out of tune they were. |
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20 Sep 15 - 05:33 PM (#3738585) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker yes - remove that ugly tuner and put the old battery operated Hawaiian Hula Dancing Doll back on the headstock..... or the nodding head dog... |
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20 Sep 15 - 05:45 PM (#3738588) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: Big Al Whittle very weird...... we need more tuners - particularly on banjos and violins in fact, I'd make it compulsory and some singers - I'd fit them with a tuner, in fact an auto tune wouldn't be a bad idea. |
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20 Sep 15 - 06:24 PM (#3738594) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: GUEST,# Does that mean the capo has to go, too? |
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20 Sep 15 - 06:27 PM (#3738597) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: Tattie Bogle No, they don't worry me at all - insignificant - but yes, switch them off while not tuning or you'll run your battery down as well as piss off those that don't like 'em. But what does really annoy me beyond belief is so-alled professional performers who have electronic tuners attached but don't actually use them and then spend valuable quarter hours unsuccessfully tuning by ear - recent painful experience - I'll name no names - still ending up with badly tuned guitar, or giving up completely, ditching the guitar, and singing a cappella. Do they actually know how to USE a tuner? And that in a set that can only last 55 minutes by order of the management - so we've paid to hear you not tuning your guitar properly for at least a quarter of the time there! RANT, RANT, RANT!! |
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20 Sep 15 - 06:40 PM (#3738603) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: fat B****rd Give me a smoking fag on a string any day. No innuendo intended. |
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20 Sep 15 - 06:41 PM (#3738605) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: GUEST,leeneia I agree, Tattie. There is definitely something to be said for "Having your act ready to go." |
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20 Sep 15 - 06:46 PM (#3738608) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: Tattie Bogle Big Al, with violins or fiddles they may have perfectly tuned open strings but it's where they put their fingers that counts!!!! |
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20 Sep 15 - 08:24 PM (#3738627) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: McGrath of Harlow Stuck on the end of an instrument means I know where it is. And tuned instruments can go out of tune, and you don't want to have to go rummaging round in your pocket, mixed up with the junk that accumulates there. They make instruments these days with built in tuners. Tidier, I suppose. But you could guarantee the battery would run down just when you need it. |
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20 Sep 15 - 08:44 PM (#3738631) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: Steve Shaw Well, speaking as a melody player of an instrument with fixed tuning, I bless the day that cheapie tuners for strummers became the norm. No more prats who've "tuned by ear" a quarter bloody tone below concert. Many's the time I felt like tuning their bloody ears with a bunch o' fives. I want tuners everywhere, loud, proud and flashing out their civilised and triumphant messages. Viva! |
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20 Sep 15 - 10:29 PM (#3738641) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: GUEST,Bert Big Al, and some singers - I'd fit them with a tuner, in fact an auto tune wouldn't be a bad idea. I want one of those. |
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20 Sep 15 - 10:39 PM (#3738645) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: Doug Chadwick If the tuner is taken off before performing then it has to be put away or else risk getting lost or broken. This adds an inevitable delay before the performance begins. The guitar could easily get knocked in the process and end up out of tune again. No! Leave the tuner safely where it is and put it safely away when the song is finished. If you don't like it, don't look. Concentrate on the finger work or the singer's face instead of fussing about things that aren't important. DC |
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21 Sep 15 - 02:18 AM (#3738653) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: Dave Hanson If left on the headstock for any length of time, the solvents in the tuner pads can damage the instrument finish. Dave H |
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21 Sep 15 - 02:18 AM (#3738654) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: Backwoodsman I put my tuner on with the 'screen' bit at the back of the headstock - visible only to me. That way, I don't offend TWAEO. I generally take it off once I'm tuned, and put it on the little table or stool I use to put my picks/capos/tuner on (and thus avoid 'losing' them during performance). It's called 'being organised'. |
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21 Sep 15 - 02:34 AM (#3738657) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: Big Al Whittle 'If left on the headstock for any length of time, the solvents in the tuner pads can damage the instrument finish.' most guitars look like they've dragged backwards through a hedge after a few years in folk clubs Dave. you'd have to be very anal retentive to worry about the damage done by the pads of the tuners. what the original poster fails to recognise is that the guitar usually requires adjustment with every change of key and certainly of tuning. Tarrega said he had spent at least forty of the fifty years he played guitar just tuning the damn thing. |
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21 Sep 15 - 02:55 AM (#3738662) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: GUEST,FloraG I think I would quite like a big one in a session - mega screen size- to show the notes of the tune. I'm not bad at picking up tunes - but I don't always manage it by the end of the second time through. So lets do away with the little ones and go mega. FloraG |
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21 Sep 15 - 05:40 AM (#3738696) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: The Sandman the worst are those that leave them on and clipped to their music stands whilst they fumble through reams of paper to find their songs. |
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21 Sep 15 - 05:44 AM (#3738699) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: Dave Hanson I play mandolin, mandolins have 2 states, being tuned or out of tune. Dave H |
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21 Sep 15 - 06:42 AM (#3738719) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: Jack Campin I thought they were just little spotlights intended to make the drops of sweat in the singer's cleavage sparkle or highlight their open fly buttons with glittery reflections? Why would the performer want to look at them? |
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21 Sep 15 - 07:50 AM (#3738739) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: Bonzo3legs Think yourself lucky anyone bothers to turn up at a folk club to perform at all!!!!! |
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21 Sep 15 - 08:01 AM (#3738742) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: Anne Lister Good grief ... surely there are more important things in this world to worry about? Even in terms of performance technique. |
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21 Sep 15 - 08:20 AM (#3738746) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: Richard Mellish Can these tuners be configured for perfect intervals or do they always show equal temperament? If the latter, you might want that in a session but not for a solo instrument. |
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21 Sep 15 - 08:46 AM (#3738753) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: Nigel Parsons For the uninitiated, "perfect intervals" are those where the number of staff serving at the bar matches the number of customers wishing to be served. |
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21 Sep 15 - 09:31 AM (#3738767) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: GUEST,# Excellent explanation of Just vs Equal Temperament tuning. |
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21 Sep 15 - 10:20 AM (#3738786) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: GUEST,leeneia Nigel, I like your definition. |
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21 Sep 15 - 11:02 AM (#3738802) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: Banjo-Flower Now the original poster has stirred the pot he/she seems to have taken a back seat Gerry |
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21 Sep 15 - 12:14 PM (#3738813) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: Andy7 Not taking a back seat, just interested in reading everyone's replies/opinions. I agree that it's not exactly the most important thing in the world; or even in the world of folk, haha! But I think it does spoil the line of the instrument, and thus detracts just a little from the performance - especially if accidentally left on. Imagine Leonidas Kavakos performing Sibelius on a Strad at the Royal Festival Hall, with an electronic tuner attached to the scroll of his violin! Okay, we might only be performing to a few fellow folkies in a draughty hall on a wet evening in November, but performing we still are; and a part of that performance is how the instrument looks. It only takes a second to take the thing off and pop it into a pocket or bag! It will still be there ready for the tune-up before your next song! Andy |
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21 Sep 15 - 12:53 PM (#3738824) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: GUEST,gillymorg4 It doesn't bother me but as Andy pointed out it does break up the line of a nice instrument. It's cool to see a Collings or Santa Cruz haircut headstock or a Bourgeois snake head but it seems that most performers I see don't perform with their better instruments and there's a lot of plainjane Martin and Martin-style head stocks out there. |
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21 Sep 15 - 01:03 PM (#3738826) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: The Sandman I object to those people who have sex with their tuners, why dont they stick to Pigs, as David Cameron allegedly has a prefernce for. if David comes to your folk club confiscate his tuner. |
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21 Sep 15 - 01:19 PM (#3738831) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: Steve Shaw Tuna? Oh no, not them as well! |
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21 Sep 15 - 01:51 PM (#3738837) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: Joe Offer As an unarmed singer, it is quite intimidating to walk into a room full of guitars, all with bayonets affixed, ready to drown out the dulcet tones of my unamplified voice. It's kinda like walking through a supermarket parking lot, with those big, evil trailer hitches sticking out at a level that is very distressing for those of us of the male gender. So, I fear that some day, I'm going to poke my eye out walking into a room full of tuner-adorned guitars. But what the heck, I'd rather get my balls busted by a trailer hitch, than sing with an out-of-tune guitar. Honey, if it makes tuning easier for you, you keep that tuner wherever you want to keep it. -Joe- |
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21 Sep 15 - 02:16 PM (#3738846) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker "But I think it does spoil the line of the instrument, and thus detracts just a little from the performance" But some accessories could actually enhance the appearance and function... I've always fancied attaching a bayonet to the headstock of one of my guitars...😜 |
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21 Sep 15 - 02:17 PM (#3738847) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: GUEST,Rachel Blimey....does it really matter? |
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21 Sep 15 - 02:19 PM (#3738849) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker oops... now there's a coincidence.. not refreshed this page for a while, so hadn't seen Joe's post |
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21 Sep 15 - 02:32 PM (#3738855) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: Mr Red is the OP a case of hearing with your eyes! If the guy on your CD had an in-line tuner during the recording session would it offend your inner man? (Thinks - what would he say if he saw this picture) I tune 'cos I care and with a Swish Army knife of course - it's wot the alien key attachment is for! Red Drum spells murdder backwards - & I'm not afraid to use it! |
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21 Sep 15 - 02:46 PM (#3738856) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link so the tambourine bashers are out of tune ? sometimes I forget to take tuner off before bagging guitar and then wonder where it is next time till I unbag guitar. |
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21 Sep 15 - 02:53 PM (#3738859) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: Andy7 You're all correct, of course, it doesn't matter. I can still really enjoy songs from performers even with that pesky tuner attached, it's not a big thing (no pun intended). And yet, it does matter. Because it matters to me, just a little bit. And if I was the only one in the world that it matters to (just a little bit), I'd be pretty amazed! Interesting that not one poster so far has said that they actually prefer to see a guitar with a tuner attached (as opposed to finding it useful to have one attached to their own guitar)! P.S. Nice red drum! Shame about the tuner! :-) |
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21 Sep 15 - 02:53 PM (#3738860) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: Mr Red I've always fancied attaching a bayonet to the headstock of one of my guitars...😜 so you can kill fascists? |
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21 Sep 15 - 03:09 PM (#3738867) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: GUEST,# There was a time when electronic tuners didn't exist (for anyone here young enough to have missed the days of checking a dial tone in whatever city one found oneself and then using an A-440 tuning fork to figure out what note was sounding on the dial tone. Then, if one lost the tuning fork ya could always get tuned appropriately. Of course, tuning by ear is ideal, and I don't care to see tuners on guitars, but then that's just a matter of taste and aesthetics. I play often with musicians who keep tuners attached and that's fine with me. What I find to be a danger is strings that haven't been clipped or wound so they don't poke holes in one's skin. About that there oughta be a law. YMMV. |
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21 Sep 15 - 05:21 PM (#3738896) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: GUEST,Stim The thing is Andy, people who feel that it is important to let everyone know what they don't like have completely worn me out. Some how or another, when the set is over, they manage to push ahead of the folks who want to say, "Thank you, that was my mother's favorite song" and tell you that you played it in D when it should have been G, or that you shouldn't have sung "Good King Wenceslaus" because is not a Christmas song, and is about "The Feast of Stephen", or that you were wrong to play a "piano blues" on your guitar, that I either should or shouldn't have played something by the Rolling Stones, or that it is immoral to play Maj7th chords. And yes, they are entitled to their opinion, and yes, because I am the performer, I am obliged to smile and listen politely, and even to apologize. And yes, I shouldn't let that stuff get to me, and I usually don't. Over time though, you don't forget. At some point, I remembered that customer service axiom that for every person whose complaint you receive, their are ten more who don't say anything. Given that I often played in coffeehouses or such places where a good audience often numbered 20-30,it came to me that it wasn't worth going out anymore;-) Anyway, Andy, you'll be glad to know that you will never see my tuner on my guitar, or even my guitar, because I decline all invitations to perform. You're welcome to try your hand at it, though, and if I happen to hear you, I'll be only to glad to correct your thumb placement. |
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21 Sep 15 - 05:38 PM (#3738901) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: Andy7 Wow, Guest.Stim, you make a really good point! And yes, it's so much easier to criticise than to praise; I, like many others, am very sensitive to criticism, and equally slow to believe that praise is genuine. And so I'll change the viewpoint in my original post, and say, "Just as a point of interest, I slightly prefer watching guitar players if they don't leave their electronic tuners on the ends of their guitars. I always take off my tuner. But that's only a personal opinion, what do others think?" Thank you for pointing this out! The tuners really don't matter, after all! Andy |
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21 Sep 15 - 06:01 PM (#3738911) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: GUEST,Stim Thank you for listening, Andy;-) |
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21 Sep 15 - 06:05 PM (#3738912) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: Andy7 You're welcome! :-) |
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21 Sep 15 - 06:10 PM (#3738913) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: Andy7 It's so important to listen to what others say, and to change our opinions if they need changing. This has worked for me, in this discussion. So, thank you. |
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21 Sep 15 - 06:20 PM (#3738916) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: GUEST,Rachel I think for me, it's about listening to a guitar player...aesthetics aside, at the end of the day, surely it's about the music and not the tools? All of us on this thread are lucky to be able to access it being played live and therefore well placed to comment about that little plastic piece of digital wizadry that we see perched on the end of a multiplicity of instruments. We all may have our own preferences, likes and dislikes and this thread has explored the pros and cons quite nicely...Let's say 'each to our own' and get on with enjoying the folky stuff. |
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21 Sep 15 - 06:30 PM (#3738920) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: GUEST,Rachel Ps...I perch the red Snark on the end of my guitar...and funnily enough, I'm often out of tune :) |
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21 Sep 15 - 07:14 PM (#3738927) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: Andy7 "I think for me, it's about listening to a guitar player...aesthetics aside, at the end of the day, surely it's about the music and not the tools? All of us on this thread are lucky to be able to access it being played live and therefore well placed to comment about that little plastic piece of digital wizadry that we see perched on the end of a multiplicity of instruments. We all may have our own preferences, likes and dislikes and this thread has explored the pros and cons quite nicely...Let's say 'each to our own' and get on with enjoying the folky stuff." Nicely said! |
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21 Sep 15 - 08:23 PM (#3738945) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: GUEST,# Andy7, you are a nice guy despite having ignored my question about the capo. :-) |
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22 Sep 15 - 12:41 AM (#3738965) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: PHJim It's your guitar/banjo/mandolin/nyckelharpa. . . and if you want to leave stuff fastened to your headstock, it's up to you, but I'll admit to not liking the look of tuners, capos, cigarettes and unclipped strings (sometimes all on the same instrument), especially one with an attractive shape or some tasteful pearl inlay. These same folks will sometimes even have those stick-on pick holders as well. If you're one of the folks who like to do this, I'll still jam with you, and won't even spend a lot of time thinking about how ugly these things look. I'll also admit to having most of my cases covered with stickers, even though some of the musicians I play with think it's ugly. |
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22 Sep 15 - 03:46 AM (#3738968) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: Mr Red Just a thought Is there a capo/tuner combination out there? Might this solve the problem? With modern electronix it is eminently possible and not over the top. I might say............... Nothing to fret about. I'll get my Aran sweater........ |
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22 Sep 15 - 04:00 AM (#3738969) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: TheSnail Now if they could do one of these for fiddle... |
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22 Sep 15 - 08:39 AM (#3739041) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: bubblyrat I was always taught to tune it by ear,as close as I can get it, then shrug and mutter "It's close enough for folk" . Can't do that nowadays though, what with my 70s drawing near and my tinnitus etc.Still, there's always young Callum now,in South Zeal ; he can tune up and I'll tune to him ! |
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22 Sep 15 - 09:03 AM (#3739051) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: Cool Beans How about the aesthetic appeal, or lack thereof, of a player who visibly keeps a flatpick in his mouth until he needs it? I saw that the other day. It didn't bother me. The player was Pat Metheny. |
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22 Sep 15 - 09:53 AM (#3739061) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: Big Al Whittle the problem pre-tuners was not so much being out of tune as the fact we had to be in tune with the bossiest member of the band. one bloke who shall remain nameless used to fiddle with my machine heads on stage if he didn't think i wasn't in tune with him. |
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22 Sep 15 - 10:33 AM (#3739072) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: GUEST,Uncle Len's Guitar Tutorials 1] Tune up then squirt superglue all over the machineheads, bridge and nut slots... wait one minute to set, then'll you'll never need to tune up again Why this never occurred to Martin or Gibson to do this straight from the factory work bench ...???? Call themselves Professional Luthiers.... Bah bloody useless !!!??? Next: 2] How to play slide guitar without a slide or bottleneck simply press drawing pins into the tips of your fretting fingers. Stay tuned in for more helpful practical advice. [please press like and share with friends] |
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22 Sep 15 - 11:39 AM (#3739088) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: GUEST,# Dear Uncle Len, I just finished a welding course and I wonder if you have considered permanently affixing the strings in that manner? |
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22 Sep 15 - 12:25 PM (#3739093) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: GUEST,Rachel ...in DADGAD |
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22 Sep 15 - 12:38 PM (#3739096) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: GUEST,Uncle Len Welding is a terrific idea [Guitar manufacturers take note] but in practical terms a little beyond the scope of most home DIY enthusiasts. One alternative I am prototyping at the moment is to entirely remove and discard all strings. Then with use of a long metal ruler and fine tip indelible ink pen, carefully draw 6 [or 12 if you are an advanced player] parallel lines along the length of the fingerboard from nut down to bridge. The stumbling problem I am encountering at the moment is that bloody big hole in the centre of the guitar body.... This needs some more thought... stay tuned... |
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22 Sep 15 - 12:50 PM (#3739097) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: GUEST,# Dear Uncle Len, Call me crazy, but have you considered turning the guitar backwards? That will solve the bloody big hole problem. Hey, Solutions R Us. |
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22 Sep 15 - 01:28 PM (#3739111) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: GUEST,Uncle Len Top idea Mr [or Ms] #. That offers a viable solution. The curved profile neck is a much more ergonomic fingering surface than the flatter fingerboard. Once the carefully drawn and spaced pen lines are applied - no more embarrassing audible fluffed notes or fret scrapes at folk music sessions. Plus we could then incorporate another idea I had in mind to entirely fill the guitar with Builders expanding foam, then seal off the hole with duct tape or a more permanent nailed on sheet of metal cut from the case of a disused VHS video recorder. This would prevent drafts entering, circulating, then leaving the guitar, and provide valuable insulation in winter saving an estimated 0.12 pence in wasted heating costs. |
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22 Sep 15 - 01:53 PM (#3739116) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: Lonesome EJ Yes, always remove your tuner unless one or all of the following apply: a) You have new strings b)it is exceptionally humid, exceptionally dry, warm, cold etc c)you are playing a 12 string guitar d)you bend notes a lot e)you are afraid of leaving it on the table |
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22 Sep 15 - 03:21 PM (#3739139) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: dick greenhaus Try listening instead of just lookinng. |
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22 Sep 15 - 03:21 PM (#3739140) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: GUEST,patriot I thought those little screens were so football fans could see the results while singing Matty Groves or some other longwinded songs? |
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23 Sep 15 - 09:53 AM (#3739296) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: GUEST,leeneia Dick, you are so radical and so right. |
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23 Sep 15 - 10:42 AM (#3739314) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: Backwoodsman Dick, you're making an incorrect (and, dare I say, high-handed) assumption that people who use tuners don't listen to their instruments. I use an electronic tuner to 'get into the ball park' quickly, then I tweak the tuning by ear to get it 'dead on' - by which I mean into temperament. Most of those I play with and around follow exactly the same process. There's no shame in using a tuner - have you ever tried to tune by ear during a session in a pub, with boxes, fiddles, whistles and bodhrans all blasting away (not to mention bar-flies bellowing in each other's ears)? |
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23 Sep 15 - 11:02 AM (#3739320) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: Tattie Bogle Think Dick meant the audience, not the player, BWM! |
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23 Sep 15 - 11:10 AM (#3739322) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: Backwoodsman Aaaaahh, I think you may be right, Tattie! Brain-Fade strikes again! :-) Apologies to Dick if that's the case, my bad! |
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23 Sep 15 - 11:24 AM (#3739327) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: Rumncoke I took my guitar out of the room to tune it, returned, waited until singer finished and walked back to the seat next to my guitar case and drink, to be roundly told off for trying to 'jump the queue'. Me being shy I said nothing and waited until the entire room had sung once, and a couple twice by which time the guitar was out of tune with the heat. I bought a tuner. |
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23 Sep 15 - 12:40 PM (#3739344) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: The Sandman rumncoke, i cannot criticise you for that |
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23 Sep 15 - 01:44 PM (#3739366) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: GUEST,Desi C A very good point. Not only do too many folk leave them attached but several ,leave them switched on wasting the batteries. My guitar comes with a built in tuner and I'd never leave it on never mind want to keep looking at it! I reckon to many it has the same function as their car horn, there to prove they own one, take them off please! |
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23 Sep 15 - 02:03 PM (#3739367) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: GUEST,Ed Hmmm, Richard Thompson was on UK television last night (Later with Jools Holland) and kept his tuner attached whilst playing. But you are all better guitarists than him, of course... |
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23 Sep 15 - 02:15 PM (#3739369) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: Seamus Kennedy My guitar, capo and tuner are tools of my trade, and I like to have 'em where I can get at them - as close as possible. The headstock is perfect for tuner and guitar. Would a blind audience notice? |
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23 Sep 15 - 02:44 PM (#3739372) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: Will Fly Some guitarists on YouTube have taken to attaching a small camcorder to the headstock - pointing down the fretboard so that their finger action can be captured on video. Mmm... I think I'll get one and link it to a large monitor facing the audience, so everyone can see what my old fingers get up to. Tuners? Tuners schmooners - camcorders for everyone... :-) |
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23 Sep 15 - 04:09 PM (#3739386) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: GUEST,# IMO, if having or not having a tuner or capo affixed to one's guitar makes a jot or tittle's difference to the performance, it's likely the performer is in the wrong line of work and/or the audience is really screwed up. |
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23 Sep 15 - 04:15 PM (#3739387) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: Hesk One of the problems with Mudcat is that every conceivable topic seems to have been aired, over and over again. There are, obviously, a number of Catters who rack their brains thinking up new threads. Unfortunately they are often negative, as is this one. Any one taking these seriously would never perform again, as there is nothing that is acceptable, it would seem. Perhaps it is time to to go back to basics, and just have fun! |
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23 Sep 15 - 04:27 PM (#3739388) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: maeve On the other hand, Andy7 as the OP started with a premise, listened to other posters, changed his views and gracefully so. Nice little thread in many ways. Uncle Len and # had a bit o' fun too. :) |
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23 Sep 15 - 07:30 PM (#3739409) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: BanjoRay I have the misfortune to be a regular at a session where I seem to be a member of a very small minority who even bother bringing tuners, let alone using them. Now that's a MUCH worse misfortune...... Ray |
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23 Sep 15 - 10:38 PM (#3739428) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: GUEST I'm surprised no one has mentioned the real reason for tuners on headstocks: it dramatically decreases the amount of time it takes to tune the instrument between songs. When I'm on stage I'm always very conscious of the ratio of music time to not-music time. Also, almost anything that makes the mechanics of being on stage easier is worth it. It frees one to concentrate on the important things, like the music and the audience. |
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24 Sep 15 - 10:48 AM (#3739520) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: GUEST,leeneia Makes sense. |
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24 Sep 15 - 12:59 PM (#3739548) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: GUEST,ripov last Guest - why do you tune between songs? Surely its easier to hear that you're in tune or not while you're playing? (except when using high levels of amplification) And if the next person you play with is out of tune with you, and you both use tuners, then the tuners are at fault. So the question is - how do you ensure your tuner is in tune with everybody elses? |
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24 Sep 15 - 01:12 PM (#3739549) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: The Sandman ripov, why do you tune between songs, you may be changing from standard to some other |
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24 Sep 15 - 01:14 PM (#3739550) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker "Surely its easier to hear that you're in tune or not while you're playing? (except when using high levels of amplification) ".. eh...??? If your guitar goes out of tune playing through a good sized decent powered amp... you and everyone else in the venue will immediately know about it... There's nowhere to hide !!! |
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24 Sep 15 - 02:00 PM (#3739558) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: GUEST, DTM Two points- 1) Leaving the tuner on when not in use surely reduces battery life expectancy. 2) Leaving tuners clipped to the stock eventually will weaken the spring (thereby the grip) so that the resonance will be harder to pick up by the tuner. Bottom line: It's your tuner. Do what you want with it. I don't care. |
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24 Sep 15 - 04:22 PM (#3739581) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: Lonesome EJ $14.99 |
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24 Sep 15 - 04:23 PM (#3739582) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: GUEST,ripov |
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24 Sep 15 - 04:35 PM (#3739585) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: GUEST,ripov Good Soldier Schweik ; ok, good point re scordatura. punkfolkrocker ; I was thinking of playing in a group. Yes if you were solo you would hear immediately if you were out of tune, amplified or not. But would you wait till the end before retuning, unless it was impossible to find time to tweak the peg? |
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24 Sep 15 - 05:05 PM (#3739592) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker depends... When our band was playing regularly, I gigged with electric mandos & 6 + 12 string solid body electric guitars I used a tuner with a mute foot switch for silent tuning. If I suddenly went that badly out of tune eg, another band member accidentally colliding with my guitar's machine heads. Then just hit the mute switch during a part of a verse or chorus when no one will notice if you drop out from playing for a fraction of a minute.. |
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24 Sep 15 - 07:42 PM (#3739609) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: PHJim Maybe a true story, maybe an urban legend: When Herb Ellis was playing with Glen Gray's Casa Loma Orchestra, he was once criticized by Gray for constantly touching up his tuning. Gray said, "I saw Andre Segovia play a whole evening and he didn't have to retune once." Herb replied, "Well, some cats just don't care." |
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25 Sep 15 - 05:20 AM (#3739654) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: Hamish I might use three or four different tunings in a set. I don't have several decent guitars nor a guitar-tech so often have to retune during a set on multiple occasions. Of course I'm going to keep it attached during the set. But I do switch it off. Before the days of electronic tuners, I'd construct a set to start in standard tuning and get progressively towards an open chord (cos it's easier to do by ear in that order) e.g. standard > drop D > double drop D > DADGAD > open D. Then in the interval retune to standard and perhaps end in open G. |
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25 Sep 15 - 05:55 AM (#3739657) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: The Sandman Hamish, spot on. |
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25 Sep 15 - 11:21 AM (#3739705) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: Young Buchan The correct sequence is this: Tune the guitar(optional) Remove the tuner Replace guitar carefully in case Perform song whilst holding tuner firmly in hand. |
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25 Sep 15 - 11:23 AM (#3739707) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: GUEST,who likes to be in tune ripov, last Guest - why do you tune between songs? Surely its easier to hear that you're in tune or not while you're playing? (except when using high levels of amplification) And if the next person you play with is out of tune with you, and you both use tuners, then the tuners are at fault. So the question is - how do you ensure your tuner is in tune with everybody elses? I don't think I entirely understand your question, but I'll give it a go. 1. I don't tune between every song. But I probably should. The guitar goes very slightly out of tune in the course of playing a song. 2. I use a capo a lot. When going from open strings to having a capo on the 5th or 7th fret, the bass strings go slightly sharp. A quick touch-up of a string or two takes almost no time if I don't have to fumble around picking up my tuner. Most performance situations I'm in are noisy enough that trying to tune by ear is ill-advised. 3. I occasionally tweak a string that's way out in the middle of a tune, but since I'm the sole accompaniment the music dies if I stop playing. I can do a spontaneous arrangement change and make a space for me to tune in if I need to, but since I tune my guitar and cittern pretty regularly between songs, they are rarely all that far out of tune. 4. Everyone I play with except fiddle players use tuners. We're always in tune with each other -- there's never a problem with tuners being out of tune with each other. Fiddlers usually get an A from another instrument and then tune the instrument to itself. Most are pretty good at doing that very quickly. |
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25 Sep 15 - 11:29 AM (#3739710) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker I bought a fancy Korg poly tuner in the black friday sales, Excellent discounted bargain - but have never used it because I can't remember where I put the box just as soon as it was delivered. It's a big chunky metal tuner that's supposed to show simultaneously how far out of tune all six strings are.. Apparently the same technology has now been shrunk down into headstock tuners...??? |
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25 Sep 15 - 12:53 PM (#3739720) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: GUEST,# I'm starting a non-profit "Free the Tuner Organization" in Canada. If anyone wants to represent the FTO in a specific country please respond here because we don't intend to have a website until 2093. We have taken our modus operandi from a mixture of various things so well known there's no use naming them. No membership fees, no oaths to take, no meetings, no minutes of meetings, no committees to join, no deadlines. If this sounds like your kind of group, then we have accomplished our goal and the organization can now fold. |
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26 Sep 15 - 05:00 AM (#3739819) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: Tattie Bogle No. |
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26 Sep 15 - 05:01 AM (#3739820) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: Tattie Bogle Can't. |
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26 Sep 15 - 05:02 AM (#3739821) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: Tattie Bogle Won't. |
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26 Sep 15 - 05:03 AM (#3739822) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: Tattie Bogle Stamping feet! ONE HUNDRED! |
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26 Sep 15 - 07:19 AM (#3739850) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: Bonzo3legs I hope there is not a "stop mics fixed to glasses for recording gigs" organisation - it's very important to have mics as far away from the feet of potential foottappers as possible!!! |
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28 Sep 15 - 09:22 AM (#3740285) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: GUEST,Lanfranc sans cookie One thing that frustrates me as a self confessed guitar nerd about permanently clipped on tuners is that they obscure the maker's name on the headstock. I have seen numerous Martins with a foil headstock decal that has been worn away by the tuner. May I commend the Planet Waves micro tuner which can be attached so as to be read from behind the headstock? Much more discreet. Alan |
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28 Sep 15 - 09:38 AM (#3740291) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: Backwoodsman Hmmmm - doesn't work very well that way on any of my Martins, because:- a) The machines obstruct the placing of the PW Micro, i.e.there is insufficient room to place the PW Micro and rotate it so that you can read the (very small) display, because of the proximity of the D and G machines to the end of the headstock and the restricted space between them. In other words, the Micro doesn't fit very well in the restricted space at the back of the headstock. b) When tuning the guitar, your hand blocks the view of the PW Micro. And anyway, even if you place the tuner at the back of the headstock, the 'rear' arm of the clip still covers part of the headstock decal. I have a D-18, an HD-28V and an OM-28 Marquis, and the above is true on all three. |
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28 Sep 15 - 12:12 PM (#3740343) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: GUEST,Lanfranc the cookieless It works fine on my '68 D-18, my Brook Tavy and my Tanglewood parlour. My Alvarez guitars all have built in tuners. The trick I find is to locate the PW micro between the 1st string tuner and the nut with the display underneath the headstock and angled toward you. No interference with the decal and even my podgy hands don't get in the way when tuning. The display is small, but as long as I wear my glasses ... Comment invited. Alan |
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28 Sep 15 - 12:32 PM (#3740347) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: Backwoodsman Yes, Alan, it works fine on the end of the headstock of my Lowden, which has a greater distance between the D/G tuners and the tip of the headstock. It doesn't work for me in the position you suggest because, when I'm playing out, I use two guitars and the Hercules stands with the opening and closing jaws. The tuner in that position fouls the jaws, and the guitar won't hang. It's a shame really, the Micro is a neat, accurate little tuner, if only I could work out a position to place it that works for me! |
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28 Sep 15 - 01:30 PM (#3740363) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: GUEST,MikeL2 Hi Being one of the "older Brigade" most of my performances were before electronic tuners came out. I have used them and found them to be very useful as my hearing deteriorated. I keep mine firmly fixed to my guitar and am not bothered about doing so. During a performance guitar strings can ( and do ) go out of tune. I find the device aids my speed in re-tuning quickly and it helps me not to have to do the embarrassing and boring ( for the audience ) tuning and re-tuning. Many of today's performers use them to a greater or smaller effect. As other people here have pointed out we come to watch and listen to the music. For me, I don't really notice the tuners. Certainly they do not detrimentally impact on my enjoyment. Cheers MikeL2 |
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28 Sep 15 - 02:07 PM (#3740379) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: Jack Campin I have seen numerous Martins with a foil headstock decal that has been worn away by the tuner. I thoroughly approve of obliterating brand names. Can somebody persuade people wearing t-shirts with huge logos that they need to keep them in tune? |
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29 Sep 15 - 12:50 PM (#3740685) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: GUEST,leeneia I like your point about the t-shirts, Jack. I think musicians should try to eliminate visual distractions. People have a hard enough time listening rather than looking. |
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29 Sep 15 - 01:29 PM (#3740698) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: GUEST,# Seems that scantily-clad young lady is facing the same conundrum. |
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29 Sep 15 - 06:15 PM (#3740753) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: The Sandman she needs to make sure that the guitar strings do not cause a leakage of silicon from busts |
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29 Sep 15 - 06:20 PM (#3740755) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: GUEST,# Too true. Also, playing slide guitar will be a real sonuvagun. |
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29 Sep 15 - 07:36 PM (#3740769) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: PHJim Hey GUEST,#, I didn't notice a tuner on the head of her guitar. |
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29 Sep 15 - 07:49 PM (#3740775) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: GUEST,# I thought that's what she was holding in her right hand. Honest. |
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30 Sep 15 - 01:31 AM (#3740812) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: GUEST Mudcat is predominantly negative. I wore my tuner last night. Get a life! |
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30 Sep 15 - 02:51 AM (#3740815) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: Joe Offer Guitarists, whatever you decide to do with tuners, please DON'T refrain from tuning. It hurts to try to sing with an out-of-tune guitar. -Joe- |
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30 Sep 15 - 02:55 AM (#3740817) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: Brakn Threads about tuners? Nah. |
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30 Sep 15 - 04:49 AM (#3740840) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: GUEST,Mark Bluemel Regarding the young lady, I would refer to Rule 34 and possibly wetriffs.com |
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30 Sep 15 - 06:21 AM (#3740859) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: GUEST,gillymor That young lady could tune to her G string, if she were wearing one. |
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30 Sep 15 - 06:38 AM (#3740865) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker That photo - I think I'm reaching an age now where I noticed the guitar first.... 😬 .. and neither the guitar, or the woman with grotesque fake enhancements look all that truly desirable... |
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30 Sep 15 - 08:31 AM (#3740887) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: GUEST,# My deepest sympathies, pfr. |
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02 Oct 15 - 08:34 AM (#3741303) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: Tattie Bogle Try her with a piano accordion? |
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03 Oct 15 - 04:55 AM (#3741455) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: GUEST,DTM Or cymbals! |
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03 Oct 15 - 10:08 AM (#3741499) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: GUEST,# Two excellent suggestions. If she plays piano accordian and cymbals simultaneously it will obviate the tuner problem. Eureka. |
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09 Oct 15 - 05:12 AM (#3742604) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: Mr Red Apologies if this tuner has been posted but 1) You can't see it 2) It can't be removed 3) It was in tune when he bought it! |
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25 Oct 15 - 08:26 PM (#3746627) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: Andy7 "On the other hand, Andy7 as the OP started with a premise, listened to other posters, changed his views and gracefully so. Nice little thread in many ways" Thank you, Maeve! I only just came across your post. Btw, I'm not trying to restart this topic, I think we more or less covered it from every angle. |
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26 Oct 15 - 07:38 PM (#3746754) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: GUEST,R oger Knowles Seamus Kennedy says it for me. |
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27 Oct 15 - 01:05 PM (#3746915) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: GUEST,Mike Rogers When I was a sprog, many years ago, I spent hours and hours tuning. In my first band, with cheap guitars, inferior machine heads and a bunch of egos, most than half the time allotted for learning new material would be spent on tuning, at which point the drummer would decide he had a problem. All tuners are good, headstock ones even more so. Especially as I could never afford to pay a Maple Byrne. |
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27 Oct 15 - 06:04 PM (#3746960) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: Bonzo3legs I'm pleased to report that all guitar playing floor spot performers had tuners fixed to their guitars last night at Croydon Folk Club - before a superb performance by Coope, Boyes & Simpson of their In Flanders Fields show! |
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27 Oct 15 - 11:09 PM (#3746991) Subject: RE: please take off those tuners! From: GUEST,Guest Billj Really? That's what's got your knickers in a knot? I have some stable guitars and some that slide out of tune a little easier. When I'm playing with someone else I want to stay in tune so the harmonies are crisp. I've had a guitar go out of tune in the middle of a song, temperature, humidity, tuners aren't tight, string wasn't installed quite right or wasn't stretched, who knows why. It's easier and less painful for the audience to just turn that tuner on and tweak the offending string. Worry about something more earth shattering, like why some people play Elk River Blues in 4/4 all the way through. |
