|
06 Mar 17 - 06:29 AM (#3843115) Subject: 'Singers and Musicians' From: Nigel Parsons Am I alone in being irritated when I read the description "Singers and Musicians". I consider myself a musician, although at folk clubs I sing unaccompanied. If the term used was "Singers and instrumentalists" I could understand the qualification. The latest example of this was spotted when I was browsing for a Folk Club near Newcastle & I came upon Tynefolk: Each Thursday, we welcome folk singers and musicians alike, with guest nights every three weeks or so... It does seem to suggest that folk singers aren't musicians. I hope it's not just me . . . |
|
06 Mar 17 - 06:35 AM (#3843118) Subject: RE: 'Singers and Musicians' From: Johnny J Let's face it. Most of them aren't. ;-))))))) |
|
06 Mar 17 - 06:38 AM (#3843119) Subject: RE: 'Singers and Musicians' From: Steve Shaw 😆 |
|
06 Mar 17 - 06:40 AM (#3843121) Subject: RE: 'Singers and Musicians' From: Johnny J For a more a serious response, I'd suggest that many of us aren't. I'd rather describe myself as player of music as opposed to being a musician(including singers). The term to me either tends to indicate that some forms of training or musical education has been received or that it is one's profession. |
|
06 Mar 17 - 06:51 AM (#3843124) Subject: RE: 'Singers and Musicians' From: Dave Hanson in this context I think that the word ' musician ' applies to people with instruments who don't sing. Dave H |
|
06 Mar 17 - 06:51 AM (#3843125) Subject: RE: 'Singers and Musicians' From: FreddyHeadey It's quite ambiguous. I would or could have read that as folk singers = accompanied & unaccompanied, trad or modernish 'folk' and musicians = someone wanting to play an instrumental piece, folk/ blues/classical-ish/jazzy even. |
|
06 Mar 17 - 06:52 AM (#3843126) Subject: RE: 'Singers and Musicians' From: Will Fly Depends on the context. Some clubs/sessions are predominantly instrumental but don't mind the odd song. And some are predominantly unaccompanied song but don't mind the odd instrument player. I think the term "Singers and Musicians" makes it quite clear that you're happy with people who sing unaccompanied and those who carry an instrument, particularly in view of the bias or slant of many clubs, even in this day and age. |
|
06 Mar 17 - 06:55 AM (#3843127) Subject: RE: 'Singers and Musicians' From: FreddyHeadey No, it doesn't irritate me as a label. |
|
06 Mar 17 - 07:15 AM (#3843129) Subject: RE: 'Singers and Musicians' From: Johnny J Will says "Even in this day and age". Sadly, I think things are far more polarised now than ever. Especially up our way. In many sessions and clubs, instruments are "accepted" but more for an accompaniment. The "You'll have had your tune" attitude is still very prevalent. Yes, there were always more singers in the early days but only because tune players were actually fewer. However, in those days everybody was actually welcomed and encouraged. |
|
06 Mar 17 - 07:16 AM (#3843130) Subject: RE: 'Singers and Musicians' From: GUEST,Jon I think you are splitting hairs Nigel although I concede it seems as if the term could be interpreted in more than one way... Personally with that line for a folk club: I'd assume singers to mean anyone giving a song regardless of whether they used instruments for accompaniment. And musicians to mean someone(s) just doing a tune a jig or reel etc. |
|
06 Mar 17 - 07:25 AM (#3843131) Subject: RE: 'Singers and Musicians' From: GUEST,Grishka "Singers and players" would be better, unless the text is about a casino. |
|
06 Mar 17 - 08:15 AM (#3843141) Subject: RE: 'Singers and Musicians' From: GUEST Johnny J, On the session subject, of the three current ones that I'd sometimes (I don't get out much at the moment) get to, one is pretty strictly no songs and fairly "serious" Irish traditional. Another is mostly Irish, can take the odd song and is a touch more "relaxed" in terms of what fits. The other is more sing/tune around with things passing round the room. There can be a lot of debate about divisions and restrictions but my own view is that I appreciate the variety available and think it is good that people and find their own more "specialised" niche if that's what they are after or go for the more general - or as, in my case, manage to feel comfortable in more than one type of setting. |
|
06 Mar 17 - 08:36 AM (#3843147) Subject: RE: 'Singers and Musicians' From: Leadfingers Having been a professional entertainer for far too long , I tend to describe myself as a vocalist and an instrumrntalist |
|
06 Mar 17 - 10:25 AM (#3843175) Subject: RE: 'Singers and Musicians' From: leeneia Let's see. The organizers give their time and money. They find a location, do the publicity, set up the chairs and put them away. And your reaction is to criticize their word use? How about a little appreciation? How about being glad for the chance to share music? I know, I know. No good deed goes unpunished. |
|
06 Mar 17 - 01:14 PM (#3843215) Subject: RE: 'Singers and Musicians' From: Tattie Bogle Most of the sessions I go to are mixed, i.e. songs and tunes, and songs may be accompanied or not (preferably as the singer prefers!) We advertise the sessions as being "songs and tunes": most, but not all, of the instrumentalists who come enjoy the songs, whether they themselves sing or not, otherwise they'd be off to a "tunes only" session.So "Songs and Tunes" or even "Tunes and Songs" would be my preference for promoting these sessions. I am equally happy singing a song I know unaccompanied, if it is a strictly "unaccompanied singing" session, though I have come across people who can NOT sing without their accompanying instrument to hold them on key or get the support of the riffs between lines of the song to hold it together. (Ever noticed how some unaccompanied singers shorten the long notes at the end of lines?) And I would challenge any notion that singers are not musicians when you hear some of the amazing harmonies that erupt spontaneously in such sessions. I don't object violently to the "Singers and Musicians" label, tho' I'd say we are ALL musicians of sorts (even if not professionally trained, JJ). |
|
06 Mar 17 - 02:45 PM (#3843255) Subject: RE: 'Singers and Musicians' From: Dave Hanson leeneia, I play in several sessions at different pubs, there is no organising involved, we just go in get a drink, sit down and play. This is the usual format for sessions all over the UK Dave H |
|
06 Mar 17 - 03:35 PM (#3843267) Subject: RE: 'Singers and Musicians' From: GUEST,Peter Dave - the OP refers to "clubs" not "sessions" |
|
07 Mar 17 - 03:33 AM (#3843355) Subject: RE: 'Singers and Musicians' From: Dave Hanson ' singers and musicians ' usually applies to sessions, folk clubs usually book a guest or call it a ' singers night ' incidently I've been going to both for 49 years. Dave H |
|
07 Mar 17 - 02:36 PM (#3843493) Subject: RE: 'Singers and Musicians' From: The Sandman As long as I dont get described as Bernard Miles, Michael Miles,or Sarah Miles, I am not bothered and if i was i would try and make a joke out of it |
|
08 Mar 17 - 04:04 AM (#3843599) Subject: RE: 'Singers and Musicians' From: GUEST,FloraG I regard a musician as someone who can join in with others and add to the collective sound. That rules out a number of singers. F. |
|
08 Mar 17 - 04:41 AM (#3843603) Subject: RE: 'Singers and Musicians' From: GUEST,Some bloke near Doncaster Hope you are ok Nigel. Last night at a folk club everybody was singing unaccompanied except me the guest, (who took his six stringed crutch as usual.) Without any hint of irony, the organiser introduced me saying "it's nice to have musicians come along too." I suppose I don't help matters because if I am complimented on my playing (it happens, ok? Well, usually towards last orders but I digress) I say I don't play a guitar but I use it to accompany a song in folk circles. If I'm playing blues or jazz, then I play a guitar as the guitar is the star. In folk, the song is hence singers are very much musicians bybthe silly definition this thread concerns. I see another distinction used when musicians are classed as sitting in a circle all playing together whilst singers sit in a circle listening to each other. Again, a better choice of words would help but at least you don't end up in a diddly doo session unless you want to. |
|
08 Mar 17 - 06:35 AM (#3843623) Subject: RE: 'Singers and Musicians' From: Nigel Parsons I regard a musician as someone who can join in with others and add to the collective sound. That rules out a number of singers. It probably also rules out a number of instrumentalists as well. But by that definition, many singers would be thought of as adding to the general sound (positively)so they are musicians. It's the fact that using the expression "singers and musicians" seems to suggest that someone can't be both. |
|
08 Mar 17 - 06:41 AM (#3843625) Subject: RE: 'Singers and Musicians' From: GUEST,Desi C Good point, for many years I was an Acpella singer and only in my 50's learnt an instrument, but vocalists are certainly musicians too |
|
08 Mar 17 - 10:31 AM (#3843680) Subject: RE: 'Singers and Musicians' From: Will Fly It's a moot point, isn't it? If you put an ad in a local paper saying, "Musicians wanted...". what response might you get? My guess is that you wouldn't get singers. I still think the context is important. |
|
08 Mar 17 - 10:46 AM (#3843686) Subject: RE: 'Singers and Musicians' From: The Sandman here are singers and musicians https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rm_oaqW_qRM |
|
08 Mar 17 - 06:08 PM (#3843764) Subject: RE: 'Singers and Musicians' From: Tattie Bogle We were asked to provide some music for charity fundraising before Christmas: the generic emails repeatedly referred to "your choir": we told them more than once that we would mainly be playing tunes, but if anyone wanted to sing along they were welcome to. Thanks to my school and Sunday school education many many moons ago, I can play "Good King Wenceslas" and sing all 5 verses from memory at the same time! |
|
08 Mar 17 - 06:30 PM (#3843769) Subject: RE: 'Singers and Musicians' From: michaelr Old joke: What do you call a guy who likes to hang out with musicians? A: A drummer. |