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27 Oct 17 - 11:58 AM (#3885092) Subject: What's a Dow? From: artbrooks The song 'Jesuitmont' has a verse, which appears just before the cook is about to render Lady Annie into a meat pastie, that goes: "Ye maun dress the dow, the dow, That fair and milk-white dow; That in the parlor shines so fair, There's nane so fair to show." So...what's a dow? |
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27 Oct 17 - 12:29 PM (#3885095) Subject: RE: What's a Dow? From: GUEST,Nick Dow A fat bloke with a beard, or more likely a Dove in this case. Pigeon Pie with human additives? kind regards (Fat bloke with beard) |
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27 Oct 17 - 12:40 PM (#3885097) Subject: RE: What's a Dow? From: GUEST,Morris-ey Possibly, doe - a deer, a female deer? |
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27 Oct 17 - 12:46 PM (#3885102) Subject: RE: What's a Dow? From: artbrooks Thanks! Mudcat strikes again - 31 minutes. |
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27 Oct 17 - 01:20 PM (#3885108) Subject: RE: What's a Dow? From: GUEST,Rigby It comes into 'Fause Foudrage' also. Pretty clear from the context in that song that it means a girl. |
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27 Oct 17 - 01:47 PM (#3885114) Subject: RE: What's a Dow? From: MoorleyMan It might be a cheeky texting abbreviation for Don't-Know (although obviously not in the case of Guest Nick, a fount of all knowledge!!!) |
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27 Oct 17 - 02:39 PM (#3885126) Subject: RE: What's a Dow? From: Steve Gardham 'dow' is more usually dove in older Scots ballads, but as already suggested here the euphemism or term of endearment is obvious. According to Child's glossary it can also be the verb 'do' but obviously not here. |
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27 Oct 17 - 03:33 PM (#3885138) Subject: RE: What's a Dow? From: Vashta Nerada So the "w" in "dow" could be a "v" or an "e" sound. Interesting puzzle. |
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27 Oct 17 - 03:40 PM (#3885139) Subject: RE: What's a Dow? From: Raggytash A Dhou is a boat, but that is possibly not relevant in this context. Also spelt Dhow it is a boat with one, sometimes two masts. |
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27 Oct 17 - 04:00 PM (#3885144) Subject: RE: What's a Dow? From: GUEST,keberoxu I'm used to hearing "doo" but not "dow." |
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27 Oct 17 - 05:03 PM (#3885155) Subject: RE: What's a Dow? From: JeffB I'm sure it's a doe, but doe or dove, it really means Lady Annie herself. It's the coded message to the cook from her step-mother to put her into the pies. But doesn't the cook say that in the next verse or two? |
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27 Oct 17 - 05:49 PM (#3885165) Subject: RE: What's a Dow? From: Steve Gardham Child's glossary does not give 'dow' as 'doe'. Chambers' Scots Dictionary Dow. n. a dove; a term of endearment. (all other meanings are verbs). |
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28 Oct 17 - 12:30 AM (#3885208) Subject: RE: What's a Dow? From: Gurney Halliwell's Dictionary of Archaic Words: Meanings like to 'to mend in health,' 'a little cake,' 'Thou,' and more tellingly, 'a dove or pigeon.' |
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30 Oct 17 - 11:49 AM (#3885687) Subject: RE: What's a Dow? From: Dave the Gnome Both 'dower' and dowager' refer to widows so the dow part could well refer to a woman. DtG |
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30 Oct 17 - 12:16 PM (#3885697) Subject: RE: What's a Dow? From: Steve Gardham Fair and milk-white widow doesn't quite do it for me, though any port in a storm as they say. Dressing a little cake also seems somewhat not in keeping with a ballad, unless it contains poison of course. |
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30 Oct 17 - 07:14 PM (#3885808) Subject: RE: What's a Dow? From: GUEST,JTT Deer do not come into the parlour in well-kept households. |
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30 Oct 17 - 07:15 PM (#3885810) Subject: RE: What's a Dow? From: GUEST,JTT Dunno if it's related, but the Greek name Dorcas means a doe, I think. |
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01 Nov 17 - 08:30 PM (#3886299) Subject: RE: What's a Dow? From: GUEST,Ebor Fiddler According to the Authorised Version, the name Dorcas is explained as "which meaneth gazelle". |
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02 Nov 17 - 11:41 AM (#3886401) Subject: RE: What's a Dow? From: leeneia In my first course of college English, the professor told us that when we encounter a strange word in archaic English, we can usually just ask ourselves what modern word it resembles. In this case, going from dow to dov is reasonable, and the meaning makes sense. Go for it, otherwise you spend so much time looking up words that you can't enjoy the poetry. |
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02 Nov 17 - 11:54 AM (#3886404) Subject: RE: What's a Dow? From: leeneia I happened upon this deathless fragment in a current Mudcat thread. It demonstrates how v and w are apt to change places in Germanic tongues. IN THE VINTERTIME In the vintertime, in the valley green, When the wind blows on the window pane And the women working in vaudeville Ride velocipides in the vestibule.... |
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02 Nov 17 - 02:54 PM (#3886438) Subject: RE: What's a Dow? From: Tattie Bogle Having Googled the song and its lyrics, it becomes a lot clearer that "the dow" is indeed the fair Annie, who is about to be slaughtered and made into a pie! A cracking murder ballad, and a wicked stepmother! So Rigby was right. JESUITMONT There lived a knight in Jesuitmont A huntin' he did ride; His footmen all attending him, And his horsemen by his side. And they found out in Jesuitmont A pleasant sport and play; His lady goes exceeding fine, To hear the masses play. An' she's called on her daughter Anne, To come to her with speed; to go and tell the master cook To dress the dinner straight. To go her message for to tell, Young Annie feared nae ill; An' she is gone to the master cook, The message for to tell. Ye maun dress the dow, the dow, That fair and milk-white dow; That in the parlour shines so fair, There's nane so fair to show. Here is a panknife in my hand, Will bereave thee of thy life; For thou art the dow that I maun dress unto thy fathers wife. Up then spoke the kitchie boy, An' he spoke loud an' high; "O save, O save fair Annie's life, An' bake me in your pie." "I will not save fair Annie's life, No not for such as thee; But if thou divulge this lady's life, Thy butcher I will be." When day was done and night was come, And they were all at dinner When he's ca'd for his daughter Annie, To come and carve his dinner. Up he rose and away he goes, Anangry man was he; "One bit of meat I will not eat, Till I fair Annie see." Up then spak the kitchie boy, An' he spak loud an' high; "An ye wad your fair Annie see, Ye maun break up the pie." Her meat it was a' minced sme' An' forced by the fire' An' cursed be her stepmother For it was her desire. This lord his a' clad i' black A' for his Annie's sake; An' he has caused her stepmother To be burnt at the stake. An' he has caused the master cook, in boilin' lead to stand; An' he has made the kitchie boy The heir o' a' his land. |
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02 Nov 17 - 03:23 PM (#3886439) Subject: RE: What's a Dow? From: Steve Gardham Nobody here has questioned the fact that the 'dow' is Fair Annie. The OP was simply asking what a 'dow' was and I think this has been answered with very little doubt, my little turtle dove! |
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02 Nov 17 - 09:02 PM (#3886490) Subject: RE: What's a Dow? From: Tattie Bogle Well there's a totally different definition in the Scots online dictionary, which does not however, fit the context of the song. dow [dʌu] n. Worth, value. v. To be able, to have the physical strength or means to do something. pt. pp. docht ['doxt, 'dɔxt] Having been able or willing, tried to. A dou or doo, not a dow, is a dove. |
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03 Nov 17 - 04:28 AM (#3886511) Subject: RE: What's a Dow? From: BobL Presumably the ballad predates the invention of spelling... |
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03 Nov 17 - 04:22 PM (#3886628) Subject: RE: What's a Dow? From: Steve Gardham Motherwell's version of Lord Randall, v2 'O what did ye get at your stepmother's, my bonnie wee croodlin dow? His mother is using this of Lord Randall as a term of endearment. Mrs Brown's version of Fause Foodrage, v22 'And I shall learn your turtle-dow as well to write and read.' 'Turtle-dow' is a bit of a give-away! Motherwell's version has similar. Note that in Child's glossary 'dow, dou and doo' are interchangeable. For instance Herd's version of 'The Jolly Beggar' v7 'And what wad ye do wi them, my hinny and my dow?' Stall copy of 'Peggy Irvine' Child 235. v17 '...........Your lady is but sleeping "Sleeping deary, sleeping dow, I'm afraid she's oer sound sleeping" ' |