BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go missing

29 Dec 17 - 07:15 AM (#3896255)
Subject: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Jim Carroll

LUCK ACCIDENT or WHAT?
Jim Carroll

---

29 Dec 17 - 07:49 AM (#3896258)
Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Donuel

many motives, many players
who could be the betrayers

---

29 Dec 17 - 08:00 AM (#3896260)
Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Dave the Gnome

Definitely what. Probably suffixed with the f***!

DtG

---

29 Dec 17 - 08:07 AM (#3896262)
Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: bobad

Relax, most have been found and returned to the archives. It sounds more like a case of misfiling than a conspiracy but if you must it's probably the Russians.

---

29 Dec 17 - 08:26 AM (#3896271)
Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: David Carter (UK)

Russians are way down the list. I trust the Russians far more than I do the UK security services. Which is why I use yandex rather than gmail for sensitive emails, the KGB may read my emails, but at least they won't share them with GCHQ

---

29 Dec 17 - 08:54 AM (#3896282)
Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: bobad

Lol, I was being facetious about the Russians but not surprised to see someone rise to the defense of a despot and tyrant, the others should be along shortly.

---

29 Dec 17 - 09:49 AM (#3896296)
Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Greg F.

to see someone rise to the defense of a despot and tyrant

No one has defended Trump, BooBoo. That's YOUR schtick.

---

29 Dec 17 - 10:06 AM (#3896301)
Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: bobad

Lol Greg, clueless as ever.

---

29 Dec 17 - 10:23 AM (#3896305)
Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Iains

The peace process in N Ireland is fragile enough without the government providing details of it's more shady dealings with terrorists. For someone always banging on about the peace process and the border I would have thought you to be the last person publicise these documents.
But any time you can attack the UK you drive in, not giving a damm about potential consequences

So long as jimmie can hurl his rattle about all is well with the world!

---

29 Dec 17 - 10:26 AM (#3896306)
Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Jim Carroll

"They are probably regarded as still sensitive and somewhat clumsily reclassified"
Sensitive to whom - the politicians who removed them, no doubt?
Other articles suggest they were lost
Jim Carroll

---

29 Dec 17 - 10:41 AM (#3896312)
Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Iains

"Sensitive to whom - the politicians who removed them, no doubt?"
I will assume you are being disingenuous. To assume anything else would necessitate me believing you are at best naive and/or incapable of grasping the bigger picture.

---

29 Dec 17 - 10:50 AM (#3896315)
Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Donuel

For anti government right wing conspiracists to defend the government or Russia in this matter is an about face don't you think?

I see a personal bias at play here instead of needed conceptual thinking and Occam's Razor rational solutions.

Martin Iains Gibson, you're blowing your cover

---

29 Dec 17 - 11:01 AM (#3896319)
Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Donuel

This thing does have the pattern of a disruptive oppositional dual finger pointing of the Russians but it could just as easily be much ado about nothing.

---

29 Dec 17 - 11:05 AM (#3896321)
Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Jim Carroll

"I will assume you are being disingenuous".
And I will assume by the fact that you respond with personal insults rather than answers that you are being as evasively dishonest as always
I really will never get tired of suggesting that you grow up
Jim Carroll

---

29 Dec 17 - 11:37 AM (#3896328)
Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Iains

Donuel Do you even understand your incessant babbling? I can make zero sense of your last two posts.

---

29 Dec 17 - 11:47 AM (#3896329)
Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Jim Carroll

Mor mindless abuse Iains
Grow up
Jim Carroll

---

30 Dec 17 - 04:09 AM (#3896407)
Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: BobL

1. Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence (Hanlon's Razor).
2. Any sufficiently advance incompetence is indistinguishable from malice (Grey's Law).
3. Malice and stupidity are often in a state of quantum superposition. The problem with collapsing to one or the other is if they are in a circular feedback loop.

---

30 Dec 17 - 04:22 AM (#3896409)
Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: punkfolkrocker

My mum is forever losing letters and documents, she is 85 and has dementia..

How old and well are some of these ministerial oficials...????

---

30 Dec 17 - 04:47 AM (#3896415)
Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Raggytash

Many, if not most, retire on healthy pensions quite early PFR !

---

30 Dec 17 - 02:32 PM (#3896518)
Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: bobad

Like I said, clueless as ever.

---

30 Dec 17 - 04:03 PM (#3896526)
Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Jeri

Bob, I think he just gets confused sometimes.

---

30 Dec 17 - 05:06 PM (#3896529)
Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: bobad

Clearly, Jeri, but I don't hold it against him we're all getting there, some just sooner than others.

---

30 Dec 17 - 05:54 PM (#3896533)
Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Amos

Maybe all those documents should just relax, learn to chill and not be so goddamned sensitive all the time.

---

30 Dec 17 - 09:06 PM (#3896543)
Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: ollaimh

much more interesting is the recent irish reveal of a document that shows M I 5 in conversations with the ulster volunteer force, and discussing a possible assassination on charles haughey. the uvf were apparantley not interested in the offer of weapons and support from MI 5 as MI 5 had betrayed them several times already--in their opinion. this shows the willingness of the british security establishment to interfere grossly in the republic. the uvf claimed they killed their won ms hanna, in britsh security information that he was a traitor, only to find out that that information was untrue.

the disclosure of the official records on the northern ireland abuses would be nice but most have been sealed again, and few brits care about the murder of irish people.

---

31 Dec 17 - 04:01 AM (#3896559)
Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Dave the Gnome

and few brits care about the murder of irish people.

What a ludicrously racist statement. I would suggest that it be removed but maybe it is best left as a reminder of the type of person the poster is.

DtG

---

31 Dec 17 - 04:51 AM (#3896568)
Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Iains

All governments have dirty hands and nasty little secrets. They normally perform more efficiently to keep them well buried.

For example:David-Kelly-post-mortem-kept-secret-70-years
"weapons inspector Dr David Kelly will be kept under wraps for up to 70 years. In a draconian – and highly unusual – order, Lord Hutton, the peer who chaired the controversial inquiry into the Dr Kelly scandal, has secretly barred the release of all medical records, including the results of the post mortem,"

Definitely dirty hands and a secret to bury there Methinks!

---

31 Dec 17 - 05:10 AM (#3896572)
Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Mr Red

Definitely dirty hands and a secret to bury there Methinks!

Yea, the hand of blackmail, threat, extortion assassination or something along those lines. Secrets were buried alright, in the grave with David Kelly.

The problem is who's secrets? And who attaches thereto?

---

31 Dec 17 - 06:12 AM (#3896580)
Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Jim Carroll

"and few brits care about the murder of irish people."
Unfortunately, there is a modicum of truth in it - if overstated
A century and a half's conditioning has meant that many British people have hardly moved from Punch Magazine's mid nineteenth century depiction of the Irish as a subhuman species
The same applies to non-white residents of our former colonies
It was even built into our entertainment until relatively recently - go look up some olf Jim Davidson or Bernard Manning clips - both highly popular 'entertainers' (sic)
Jim Carroll

---

31 Dec 17 - 07:19 AM (#3896583)
Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Dave the Gnome

I disagree, Jim. You are playing a numbers game s numbers game here.

A century and a half's conditioning has meant that many British people have hardly moved from Punch Magazine's etc.

How many is many? Give us a clue. 90%? 50%? 10%? Once you can do that can you then let us know if the proportion of British people who do not care about murder of anyone else is higher or lower than that of anyone else? You cannot simply tar a whole race by the actions of a few and that is what you seem to be condoning.

DtG

---

31 Dec 17 - 07:43 AM (#3896586)
Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Jim Carroll

"You are playing a numbers game s numbers game here. "
Not really Dave
A national survey a few years ago indicated that betwwn a quater and a third of British people hld and had openly expressed racist views - that included those aimed at the Irish
The Troubles inflated the already existing traditional anti-Irish feeling, but it has always been a part of British life
I remember, a few years before I moved here, doing an electrical job for a fmily in Wimbledon
I was told "We have Irish neighbours so we always check under our car before we drive away"
I was horrified when I moved from Liverpool, to find the extent of anti-Irish feeling in places where there weren't so many Irish people.
For a long time I found myself concealing my own family history
Jim Carroll

---

31 Dec 17 - 07:56 AM (#3896587)
Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Dave the Gnome

Not really answered my question have you, Jim. What percentage of British people are racist and how does that compare with other countries around the world? A good place to start would be this Wikipedia article. I do know Wiki can be wrong but at least there is no political bias that I can spot in the article.

I am not trying to catch you out here. I just find it odd that people can assume that because of where I was born I am more likely to accept the killing of others. Does that not seem strange to you too?

DtG

---

31 Dec 17 - 08:06 AM (#3896589)
Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Jim Carroll

Why compare it with other countries around the world Dave - racism is racism wherever it happens
Racism is not an assessment of how all people behave - just how many racists there are - which lets those who aren't off the hook
I'd have thought between a quarter and a third is a large enough estimate to raise concerns
There can be little doubt that Brexit was sold by using the 'race card' and the immediate rise of racist incidents confirmed that to be the case - you might consider the majority who picked up that card as an estimate of how many racists there are
Jim Carroll

---

31 Dec 17 - 08:07 AM (#3896590)
Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Keith A of Hertford

There can be little doubt that Brexit was sold by using the 'race card'
Complete bollocks.

---

31 Dec 17 - 08:15 AM (#3896593)
Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Dave the Gnome

Why compare it with other countries around the world Dave

I thought I answered that in my previous post Jim. My statement was "I just find it odd that people can assume that because of where I was born I am more likely to accept the killing of others" which is exactly what ollaimh suggested and what you seemed to endorse. If we were to change the original statement to and few people in the world care about the murder of irish people, would you find it so acceptable?

Which is why, even though I agree with your point about racism being wrong whoever does it, it is important to understand that accusing one race of people of being more racist than another is not only wrong but racist in itself!

DtG

---

31 Dec 17 - 08:29 AM (#3896596)
Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: bobad

It's racists who view the world in terms of race.

---

31 Dec 17 - 08:44 AM (#3896601)
Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Dave the Gnome

Apologies, Jim. I seem to have attracted the usual suspects by trying to have a reasonable discussion with you. It is obvious that reasonable disagreement is what normal people do and have shit on the thread even more. I shall say no more on the subject of racism and hope that the moderators see fit to deal with it in a suitable manner.

Cheers

DtG

---

31 Dec 17 - 08:46 AM (#3896602)
Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Dave the Gnome

Sorry - Bad C&P. The nonsense sentence above should read

It is obvious that they do not understand that reasonable disagreement is what normal people do and have shit on the thread even more

DtG

---

31 Dec 17 - 08:59 AM (#3896604)
Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Jim Carroll

"and what you seemed to endorse. "
I did point out it was overstated Daave
British racism is a mixture of the natural mistrust of foreigners that all nations and communities have their share of and the racism developed and fostered by the British Empire in order to rule and exploit the less developed sections of the world
The latter was very much a part of my early formal education but was countered by my parents' hatred of both Empire and the idea of dividing the world int greater and lesser beings
The Empire pas firmly placed in history's dustbin - its effects remain and are now used by politicians to gain and retain power
Jim Carroll

---

31 Dec 17 - 09:17 AM (#3896605)
Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Dave the Gnome

You did, Jim. I suppose we are both lucky in having parents who were not little Englanders. I cannot say that my parents hated any of it. In fact, my Father and his family who came here after the war, loved England and laid the foundations for my belief that England was indeed one of the most welcoming countries for all displaced persons. It saddens me to see what has happened recently and to read some of the tripe spouted on here. I still believe though that when it comes down to it the majority of English people would welcome others. Even if they do have a moan about it :-)

Anyway - Enough of the thread drift. What did happen to those documents?

DtG

---

31 Dec 17 - 10:55 AM (#3896616)
Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Greg F.

It's racists who view the world in terms of race.

And I'M supposed to be confused??

---

31 Dec 17 - 03:32 PM (#3896653)
Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Iains

I do not think many have a problem with immigration. The entire history of the UK consists of a series of waves of immigration/invasion. What troubles many people is the present rate of immigration, that many feel is unsustainable. As exemplified by pressure on schools, medical services and housing.

Caesar's second invasion consisted of estimated 10000 troops.

Similar figures are quoted for William the conquerors invasion in 1066.

The latest net migration statistics show that in the year ending June 2017, net migration to the UK was 230,000. Net migration started climbing in 1997

https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/statistics-net-migration-statistics

Insulting everyone that worries about this enhanced rate of immigration by calling them "little Englanders" merely demonstrates a willful disregard of the reality created by these high figures. But there are many still putting their heads in the sand and singing la la la, until such time as their exposed arses get a deserved good kicking.

---

31 Dec 17 - 03:44 PM (#3896654)
Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Dave the Gnome

What was the population during Caesar's invasion or in 1066, Iains?

What is it now?

What was the percentage increase?

How was that information spread?

For what it is worth "little Englander" is not an insult but a description of someone who believes that England should be isolated and by it's little self.

Complete tossed is an insult but I shall leave it to you to determine to whom it applies.

DtG

---

31 Dec 17 - 04:34 PM (#3896658)
Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Kenny B (inactive)

Empires in General by the dozen and racism without racially defining which country or power group was responsible would not be a racist comment on its own.
I know everybody will not agree with this and I will view comment with my usual sense of humour.

"Racism is a mixture of the natural mistrust of foreigners that all nations and communities have their share of and the racism developed and fostered by the each empire in order to rule and exploit the less developed sections of the world

The latter was very much a part of my early formal education but was countered by my parents' hatred of both Empire and the idea of dividing the world int greater and lesser beings
Each Empire has been firmly placed in history's dustbin - their effects remain and are now used by politicians to gain and retain power and wealth"

---

01 Jan 18 - 04:46 AM (#3896724)
Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Iains

gnome. try reading what I posted again and stop acting like a eunatic.

---

01 Jan 18 - 05:28 AM (#3896728)
Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Raggytash

Whats a eunatic?


Perchance a cross between a eunuch and a lunatic?

---

01 Jan 18 - 05:33 AM (#3896729)
Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Dave the Gnome

I must say, I do like the term eunatic. Going off your past record I do understand it was a mistake rather than an original thought but it describes you to a T. Barking and with no balls.

:D tG

---

02 Jan 18 - 03:38 AM (#3896845)
Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Iains

A Eunatic is one of those daft enough to nail their colours to the mast of the SS Eutanic. Easy peasy if you care to think about it!

---

02 Jan 18 - 06:51 AM (#3896872)
Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Raggytash

The only ship that is sinking at the moment is SS United Kingdom

---

02 Jan 18 - 07:15 AM (#3896877)
Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Mr Red

There can be little doubt that Brexit was sold by using the 'race card'

Ah, the Enoch Powell stratagem. "My precise words were........"

There are ways of being precise that the receiver fails to hear precisely. Weezle words do it, and nobody intelligent ever claimed that racist and clever could not combine.

Sublety is hard to define but objective thought can spot it.

As the saying goes "People do not scrutinise, that which they are glad to hear".

There are ways of being tribal that are indistinguishable from the aura that racists exhibit.

Take football.






Far away please!

---

02 Jan 18 - 09:00 AM (#3896891)
Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: punkfolkrocker

Iains - whoever you really are, I presume you are an adult of at least 60 years old and should know better;
your dependence on prefab insults provided down from above by right wing 'think tanks' is not clever.
It marks you out as a sheep like follower devoid of personal creativity and imagination...

Like one of those fukwit school kids who hang around playground bullies
hoping the bully wont pick on them if they laugh at the bigger bully's jokes, copy the bully's mannerisms, and help duff up the bully's victims..

Happy New Year...

---

02 Jan 18 - 09:00 AM (#3896892)
Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Nigel Parsons

Empire
noun
1. an extensive group of states or countries ruled over by a single monarch, an oligarchy, or a sovereign state.
"the Roman Empire"

synonyms: kingdom, realm, domain, territory, province; More
commonwealth, federation, confederation; power, world power, superpower;

supreme political power over several countries when exercised by a single authority.
"he encouraged the Greeks in their dream of empire in Asia Minor"

archaic
absolute control over a person or group.


2. an extensive sphere of activity controlled by one person or group.
"the kitchen had once been the school dinner ladies' empire"

From the above definitions, is it safe to start referring to the EU as the "European Empire"?
I realise that this would cause difficulties for those who think any form of empire must be bad, but that the EU is good.

---

02 Jan 18 - 09:38 AM (#3896900)
Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Jim Carroll

"is it safe to start referring to the EU as the "European Empire"?"
Of course it isn't
If the members of that group represent the interest of their own countries it means that control is shared, not centralised.
Empire as we understand it, is the domination of one people by the other in the interest of the ruling nation whose only duty towards the subject nations is to keep them profitable.
I have just finished reading a life-changing book, 'King Leopold's Ghost' by Adam Hochschild a must for those who would understand the true purpose of Empire
I showed how 'Gallant Little Belgium' in a relatively short period over the end of the 19th and biginning of the 20th centuries wiped out 10 million Congolese, basically by re-introducing slavery in pursuit of rubber.
I have to confess glow of loca pride to learn that it was a Liverpudlian shipping clerk who brought Emperor Leopold II to his knees - who said that scousers were all football obsessed yobs!!
Jim Carroll

---

02 Jan 18 - 09:43 AM (#3896903)
Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Greg F.

...controlled by one person or group....ruled over by a single monarch...

'Twould seem you've answered your own question, Nige.

---

02 Jan 18 - 12:27 PM (#3896948)
Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Iains

PFR. You provided a fine example of Psychobabble. Can I have the recipe of whatever hallucinogens you swallowed prior to it's construction? It may aid my creativity.

---

02 Jan 18 - 01:36 PM (#3896955)
Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Jim Carroll

Perhaps we can get hurling mindless abuse accepted as an event in time for the next olympics
"It may aid my creativity"
Or maybe even help give birth to it
Jim Carroll

---

02 Jan 18 - 03:23 PM (#3896969)
Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: punkfolkrocker

Inanes - stop trying to be clever and funny... it's too forced and banal...

.. a bit like Daily Mail opinion leaders...?????

---

02 Jan 18 - 03:35 PM (#3896971)
Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go miss
From: Steve Shaw

He's getting precisely the reaction from you that he's fishing for. Just ignore him.

---

05 Jan 18 - 08:56 AM (#3897522)
Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go missing
From: Iains

The EU empire. From the hosses mouth!
Barroso says EU is an 'empire'


https://euobserver.com/institutional/24458

But the resident %&*()_+s know better, or so they think!

---

05 Jan 18 - 11:31 AM (#3897567)
Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go missing
From: Steve Shaw

Well we know enough to carry on reading beyond a headline, where he makes it perfectly clear that he is not talking about ancient Rome, Greece, the Third Reich or the one with all that red on which the sun never set. It's a good thing to read your link before posting in order to make sure it doesn't completely negate the sentiment you're trying to put across, as this one does. It's also quite a good idea to look at the date on it. This one is ten and a half years old, and as far as I know we're still waiting for the next Napoleon...

---

05 Jan 18 - 11:57 AM (#3897571)
Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go missing
From: bobad

.....she paraphrased former US secretary of state Madeleine Albright's comment that one has to be either a "genius or French" to understand the EU.

Lol!

---

05 Jan 18 - 12:16 PM (#3897577)
Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go missing
From: Iains

"Sometimes I like to compare the EU as a creation to the organisation of empire. We have the dimension of empire," he said."

If it walks like an empire, talks like an empire, and increasingly squawks like an empire, then an empire it is.

Surely even shaw can understand that. Not a lot of wriggle room that I can see. Must be time to change those leftard rose tinted spectacles of yours and take your sandalled self into the world of reality for a while. Unlike wines empires generally do not age well-they decay!
As can be seen by the state of EU's decline since the article was written.
Greece raped!
Cypriot bank accounts robbed
Catalonia-Spain would like to forget about is. as would the rest of the E
Lifeboat UK paddling away from the foundering Eutanic.

---

05 Jan 18 - 01:38 PM (#3897603)
Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go missing
From: Jim Carroll

"If it walks like an empire, talks like an empire, "
Bollocks
The Empires were based on conquest, compulsion and exploitation (to the point of mass murder in Gallant Little Belgium's case)
Whatever problems there are with the EU, none of these situations apply
Jim Carroll

---

05 Jan 18 - 01:54 PM (#3897606)
Subject: RE: BS: Thousands of Sensitive Documents Go missing
From: Jim Carroll

By the way
Brexit was achieved on the basis of a narrow majority, in fact a minority of the British people as a whole who had been informed that leaving Europe didn't stand a snowballs chance in hell of succeeding - even the Brexiteers nearly fell out of their high-chairs when the result was announced
If Europe is an Empire, then it is one that the member states, including Britain readily joined
Jim Carroll

---