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08 Feb 18 - 08:05 PM (#3904479) Subject: What sea shanties did Blackbeard know? From: GUEST,Tony Coll I'm writing a play about Blackbeard the pirate, who was killed in November 1718. I'd like to include some shanties, but suspect that most of those still around today date from after that time. Can anyone suggest shanties that are old enough to have been sung by Blackbeard and his crew? |
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08 Feb 18 - 08:19 PM (#3904480) Subject: RE: What sea shanties did Blackbeard know? From: Lighter Strictly speaking, *all* English-language shanties that we know of seem to date from the decades after 1800. One sea song he *could* have known was "Captain Kidd" (not a shanty). Another was "Admiral Benbow," to a similar tune. Sailors sang all kinds of songs when at leisure. Probably someone else could name a fair number of appropriate ca1700 shore songs. |
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08 Feb 18 - 08:32 PM (#3904487) Subject: RE: What sea shanties did Blackbeard know? From: meself I believe Haul on the Bowline is supposed to go back centuries .... |
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08 Feb 18 - 11:04 PM (#3904502) Subject: RE: What sea shanties did Blackbeard know? From: GUEST,Kristoffer Ross Just out of my theaterfolkish curiousity, Is the play lined up for production somewhere? Best, Kristoffer |
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09 Feb 18 - 12:19 AM (#3904506) Subject: RE: What sea shanties did Blackbeard know? From: Gibb Sahib I believe "Tom Bowline" goes back centuries, because bowline was an old old line that later became super unimportant. On a serious note: Perhaps something by John Gay? |
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09 Feb 18 - 06:03 AM (#3904546) Subject: RE: What sea shanties did Blackbeard know? From: GUEST,henryp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3ASea_shanty Plymouth Town the oldest?[edit] In a Renaissance Faire a cappella context, I came across the notion that the call & response "Plymouth Town" (there dwelt a maid) is the oldest recorded shanty, at least in English. As time allows, I'll see if I can chase down some cites, or someone else could get there first... Just plain Bill 13:45, 6 April 2006 (UTC) That's interesting. Are you referring to the song that also has the words "In Amsterdam their lived a maid, mark well what I do say!/In Amsterdam there lived a maid, and she was mistress of her trade./I'll go no more a rovin' with you fair maid . . ." Hugill gives the title of the song as "A Rovin'." In Shanties of the Seven Seas, he writes that the earliest book in English with the lyrics to shanties is Complaint of Scotland published in 1549, which gives several hauling songs. There is no music, however. As for "A Rovin'" he notes that some people claim that the words were taken from a song in the 1640 play The Rape of Lucrece, but he is not convinced of this having compared them. He also reports that "some say the tune [itself] is Elizabethan." In all, he cites three shanties commonly held to be 16th century: "Haul the Bowline," "A Rovin'," and "Whiskey Johnny." He says that there is little or no evidence for "Haul the Bowline" (though he says it was a more important line at that time than it was later), that there is not enough evidence for "Whiskey Johnny," and that "A Rovin'" may be of that era but as a land-based folk song only rather than a shanty. Crypticfirefly 02:14, 22 July 2006 (UTC) |
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09 Feb 18 - 06:31 AM (#3904555) Subject: RE: What sea shanties did Blackbeard know? From: Big Al Whittle The search for Blackbeard's ringbinder must commence in earnest. |
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09 Feb 18 - 08:50 AM (#3904580) Subject: RE: What sea shanties did Blackbeard know? From: GUEST,henryp Perhaps you can take a well-known shanty, but remove anachronisms such as Boney, Santianna, Nelson's blood. Shenandoah - Native Indians detailed to the first Englishmen arriving on American soil in the 1600s of vast herds of grazing animals and endless forests of American trees. New York - The English took over the colony in 1664 during the second Anglo-Dutch War. They changed the name to New York, to honour the Duke of York, who later became King James II of England. Spirituals - Christian hymns and songs were very influential on the writing of African-American spirituals, especially those from the "Great Awakening" of the 1730s. Essequibo River - The first European settlement in Guyana was built by the Dutch along the lower part of the Essequibo in 1615. The Independence war of Venezuela beginning in the 19th century ended the missionary settlements. At this time, Britain needed to have a colony, besides Trinidad, to serve the large trade sailboats on their large travel trading route around South America. "Donkey Riding" is a traditional work song or sea shanty originally sung in Canada, Scotland and the Northeastern United States. The tune and words are an adaptation of "Highland Laddie". It is generally, but not universally, agreed that the "donkey" of the song title is a reference to the steam donkey, a kind of general-purpose steam engine. |
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09 Feb 18 - 11:33 AM (#3904612) Subject: RE: What sea shanties did Blackbeard know? From: Mr Red Maybe we should be cognizant of the reason the "Silent Service" got its monica. Work shanties could be heard for 30 miles which is over the horizon. Pirate relied on stealth and speed. Plus a little firepower. So any shanties in the context of engagement might look a little naff. |
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09 Feb 18 - 01:31 PM (#3904641) Subject: RE: What sea shanties did Blackbeard know? From: Bat Goddess It's been suggested that "Maid of Amsterdam" (sometimes known as "A-Roving") dates to the late 1500s or early 1600s. Linn |
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09 Feb 18 - 02:32 PM (#3904651) Subject: RE: What sea shanties did Blackbeard know? From: Steve Gardham There are no known chanteys prior to 1800 in English of any description. The 'Maid of Amsterdam' misinformation comes from misreading of historical notes. The sequence of courtship items that occur in some versions of A-roving are commonplaces that occur in a number of shore songs, which do go back to the 1600's. That doesn't mean that short chants of some kind weren't used such as 'heave-ho' or '1, 2, 3 pull' but songs with lyrics in 1718 highly unlikely. However, pirate crews were very mixed race during all periods and it may well be that some form of 'sing out' from another culture (African say) would not have been used. |
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09 Feb 18 - 03:02 PM (#3904663) Subject: RE: What sea shanties did Blackbeard know? From: Lighter If you're going to "remove anachronisms" from well-known shanties, you'd probably be better of just writing new songs. Because the entire shanty would be an anachronism. But the larger point is that sailors of ca1700 *didn't have* shanties. I seem to recall a mention of merchant seamen in the later 18th century weighing anchor while singing "The British Grenadiers," a well-known shore song. That case seems to have been exceptional. But since heaving a capstan is slow, steady work, it would certainly lend itself to some kind of singing - even if shanties, strictly speaking, were as yet unknown. Or by "shanty" do you (like so many other people) just mean a "song related to the sea"? |
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09 Feb 18 - 04:42 PM (#3904687) Subject: RE: What sea shanties did Blackbeard know? From: Steve Gardham I seem to remember one of the earliest references was for the chantey 'Cheerly Man' used on board the RN revenue cutters on the east coast of England. These smaller ships had smaller crews and not the same restrictions as ships of the line. But even then that was only about 1820. |
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10 Feb 18 - 10:36 AM (#3904788) Subject: RE: What sea shanties did Blackbeard know? From: Ian You mean may have known. Check out the Tempest by William Shakespeare where he refers to 'haul on the bowline'.act one scene one I think. The scribe of Duke William of Normandy wrote of the sailors changing as they raised the sails. |
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10 Feb 18 - 12:29 PM (#3904802) Subject: RE: What sea shanties did Blackbeard know? From: Mr Red The main problem is that you had to be there to know. Given that there had to be someone there to note and document something that was of little interest to those not at sea, means there isn't going to be much of a record anyway. And what evidence there might just possibly be, is never guaranteed to be where you expect it. I well remember seeing a documentary on Robert Graves. He sang "the Front Line Wire" and the version differed in revealing ways to the "Old Barbed Wire". Roy Palmer was very appreciative I had a VHS of it. And his book was already quite comprehensive on versions of the song. He tried to get the BBC to release better footage. Now how many peeps would watch TV as genuine Folk research? I would say write yer own and check out Shakespeare, , and, may I add another snippet, Shakespeare was known to lift passages, words and all from other writers. Daily Telegraph Saturday Feb 10 2018, p13 "Plagiarism software spots new source for Shakespeare" viz from the writings of George North - ambassador to Sweden Project Guttenburg - the Tempest (et al) free downloads go search PAL. But search for bow and you will find a sprit not a line. And then go back before Ariel and read. There are words that they would have used then that you could lift. The song doesn't have to be long unless it is a "musical". A minor point - Burbage was from the West Country so mummerset accents might be appropriate. But Bill Shake never spoke in a Brummie accent. |
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10 Feb 18 - 12:43 PM (#3904806) Subject: RE: What sea shanties did Blackbeard know? From: GUEST Thanks to all for your very insightful comments. Great point about pirates having to be quiet to sneak up on other ships - so unlikely to sing while pirating! However, there's scope for land-based scenes. What would have been the 'jukebox' songs likely to have been sung in a tavern in the West Indies or North Carolina in the early 18th century? |
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10 Feb 18 - 01:44 PM (#3904810) Subject: RE: What sea shanties did Blackbeard know? From: GUEST,henryp The Beggar's Opera is a ballad opera in three acts written in 1728 by John Gay with music arranged by Johann Christoph Pepusch. The lyrics of the airs in the piece are set to popular broadsheet ballads, opera arias, church hymns and folk tunes of the time. Selected musical numbers; Can Love be control'd by Advice? (Polly, act 1) Let us take the Road (Chorus of Highwaymen, act 2) When Gold is at hand (Jenny Diver)[citation needed] At the Tree I shall suffer (Macheath, act 2) How cruel are the Traitors (Lucy, act 2) How happy could I be with either (Macheath, act 2) In the Days of my Youth (Mrs Diana Trapes, act 3) The Charge is prepar'd (Macheath, act 3) Act I, Scene xiii, Air XVI—“Over the Hills, and Far Away” Mac. Were I laid on Greenland’s coast, And in my arms embraced my lass, Warm amidst eternal frost, Too soon the half-year’s night would pass. Polly. Were I sold on Indian soil, Soon as the burning day was closed, I could mock the sultry toil When on my charmer’s breast reposed. Mac. And I would love you all the day, Polly. Every night would kiss and play, Mac. If with me you’d fondly stray Polly. Over the hills, and far away. |
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10 Feb 18 - 02:32 PM (#3904819) Subject: RE: What sea shanties did Blackbeard know? From: Steve Gardham Jon has already suggested some likely candidates, Benbow, Captain Kidd and Jack Hall all dating to about 1702 or soon after and all to roughly the same tune. 'The Barley Mow' was around by then but very likely not in the form we sing it today. What could be the original is in one of Ravenscroft's books of 1609. Some probables Child 285 'The George Aloe and The Sweepstake' from the 17th century, likewise 'Sir Walter Raleigh sailing in the Lowlands' or as we know it today 'The Golden Vanity' Child 286. Child 287 'Captain Ward and the Rainbow'. Versions of all of these are still sung today so finding tunes shouldn't be difficult. |
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10 Feb 18 - 03:39 PM (#3904829) Subject: RE: What sea shanties did Blackbeard know? From: GUEST,henryp "The Ballad of Captain Kidd" is an English song about Captain William Kidd, who was executed for piracy in London on May 23, 1701. The song was printed in Britain in 1701, and it travelled to the colonies "almost immediately". Washington Irving's 1824 work Tales of a Traveller makes mention of the song: "There 's a fine old song about him, all to the tune of — My name is Captain Kidd, As I sailed, as I sailed— And then it tells all about how he gained the Devil's good graces by burying the Bible : I had the Bible in my hand, As I sailed, as I sailed, And I buried it in the sand As I sailed. 'Girls and Boys Come Out to Play' or 'Boys and Girls Come Out to Play' is a nursery rhyme that has existed since at least 1708. It has a Roud Folk Song Index number of 5452. Marlbrough S'en Va-t-en Guerre is one of the most popular folk songs in French. The burlesque lament on the death of John Churchill, 1st Duke of Marlborough (1650–1722) was written on a false rumour of that event after the Battle of Malplaquet in 1709, the bloodiest battle of the War of the Spanish Succession. "For He's a Jolly Good Fellow" is a popular song that is sung to congratulate a person on a significant event. The melody originates from the French song "Marlbrough s'en va-t-en guerre". The traditional children's song "The Bear Went Over the Mountain" is sung to the same tune. "Fare Thee Well" (sometimes known as "The Turtle Dove") is an 18th-century English folk ballad, in which a lover bids farewell before setting off on a journey. The lyrics include a dialogue between the lovers. The first published version of the song appeared in Roxburghe Ballads dated 1710; the lyrics were there given the title "The True Lover's Farewell". From Wikipedia |
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10 Feb 18 - 04:11 PM (#3904835) Subject: RE: What sea shanties did Blackbeard know? From: GUEST,henryp From Wikipedia; Greensleeves A broadside ballad by this name was registered at the London Stationer's Company in September 1580, by Richard Jones, as "A Newe Northen Dittye of ye Ladye Greene Sleves". The tune is found in several late-16th-century and early-17th-century sources, such as Ballet's MS Lute Book and Het Luitboek van Thysius, as well as various manuscripts preserved in the Seeley Historical Library at the University of Cambridge. John Gay used the tune in The Beggar’s Opera: Air XXVII 'Green Sleeves' Since laws were made, for every degree, To curb vice in others, as well as me, I wonder we han’t better company Upon Tyburn tree. But gold from law can take out the sting; And if rich men, like us, were to swing, ’Twould thin the land, such numbers to string Upon Tyburn tree. |
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10 Feb 18 - 04:18 PM (#3904836) Subject: RE: What sea shanties did Blackbeard know? From: BrooklynJay Chairman: What this committee is trying to ascertain is precisely what did Capt. Blackbeard know, and when did he know it? What say you, sir? Blackbeard: Aaaaaaaarrrrrrrgh!! Sorry folks... I just couldn't help myself. Jay |
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10 Feb 18 - 04:28 PM (#3904839) Subject: RE: What sea shanties did Blackbeard know? From: GUEST,henryp From Wikipedia; 'Over the Hills and Far Away' is a traditional British song, dating back to at least the late 17th century. One version was published in Thomas D'Urfey's Wit and Mirth, or Pills to Purge Melancholy; a very different one appeared in George Farquhar's 1706 play The Recruiting Officer. A version also appears in John Gay's The Beggar's Opera of 1728. D'Urfey's and Gay's versions both refer to lovers, while Farquhar's version refers to fleeing overseas to join the army. The nursery rhyme 'Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son' mentions a piper who knows only one tune, this one. Early versions of this, known as 'The distracted Jockey's Lamentations', may have been written (but not included) in Thomas D'Urfey's play The Campaigners (1698): Tommy was a Piper's Son, And fell in love when he was young; But all the Tunes that he could play, Was, O'er the Hills, and Far Away. D'Urfey lyrics; Jocky met with Jenny fair Aft by the dawning of the day; But Jockey now is fu' of care Since Jenny staw his heart away. Altho' she promis'd to be true She proven has, alake! unkind Which gars poor Jockey aften rue That e'er he loo'd a fickle mind. Tis o'er the hills and far away Tis o'er the hills and far away Tis o'er the hills and far away The wind has blown my plaid away [verses omitted] Since that she will nae pity take I maun gae wander for her sake And, in ilk wood and gloomy grove I'll, sighing, sing, 'Adieu to love. Since she is fause whom I adore I'll never trust a woman more; Frae a' their charms I'll flee away And on my pipes I'll sweetly play, O'er hills and dales and far away O'er hills and dales and far away O'er hills and dales and far away The wind has blawn my plad away. |
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10 Feb 18 - 05:14 PM (#3904845) Subject: RE: What sea shanties did Blackbeard know? From: Steve Gardham An instinctive guess but the tavern haunts of pirates would have been full of the vilest filth so a bawdy songster of the time might be appropriate. D'Urfey's Pills has some bawdy material in it. |
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10 Feb 18 - 06:44 PM (#3904856) Subject: RE: What sea shanties did Blackbeard know? From: GUEST,paperback Blackbeard may not have known Heart of Oak, but Blackbeard's Ghost does. |
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11 Feb 18 - 07:00 PM (#3905057) Subject: RE: What sea shanties did Blackbeard know? From: Ged Fox Cue a shameless plug for "Songs and Music of the 'Golden Age' of Piracy, 1660-1725" E.T. Fox, Lulu Publications. "20 songs and tunes from the 'Golden Age' of piracy, 1660-1720. With historical notes, full lyrics, and sheet music." |
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11 Feb 18 - 07:30 PM (#3905061) Subject: RE: What sea shanties did Blackbeard know? From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch Fwiw: Stealthy nautical music was a percussion instrumental, click two rocks together. Johnson gives nothing on Blackbeard however, the chapters on Capts. Roberts and Spriggs give some clues to the music on merchant and pirate. No secular titles and, no surprise, unless the latter went down fighting, he switched to the psalms: "It was a melancholly Requeft to the Man, but muft be comply'd with, and he was obliged, as they grew drunk, to fit quietly, and hear them fing French and Spanifh Songs out of his Dutch Prayer-Books, with other Prophanefs, that he (tho' a Dutch Man) ftood amazed at." (Cpt. Roberts, p.258) "Thus he preach'd himfelf into an Approbation of what he at firft abhorr'd; and being daily regal'd with Mufick, Drinking, and the Gaiety and Diverfions of his Companions, thefe deprav'd Propenfities were quickly edg'd and ftrengthen'd, to the extinguifhing of Fear and Confcience." (p.272) "...the Note was changed among moft of them, and from vain infolent jefting, they became ferious and devout, begging for good Books, and joyning in publick Prayers, and finging of Pfalms, twice at leaft every Day." (p.277) "The four firft of thefe Prifoners, it was evident to the Court, ferved as Mufick on Board the Pyrate, were forced lately from the feveral Merchant Ships they belonged to; and that they had, during this Confinement, an uneafy Life of it, having fometimes their Fiddles, and often their Heads broke, only for excufing themfelves, or faying they were tired, when any Fellow took it in his Head to demand a tune." (p.296) "James White, whofe Bufinefs was Mufick, and was on the Poop of the Pyrate Ship in Time of Action with the Swallow,..." (p.302) "Scudamore...and defired , at the Gallows, they would have Patience with him, to fing the firft Part of the thirty firft Pfalm; which he did by himfelf throughout." (p.328) "Armftrong ...In the End, he defir'd they would join with him in finging two or three latter Verfes of the 140th Pfalm; and that being concluded, he was, at the firing of a Gun, tric'd up at the Fore-Yard-Arm." (p.329) "In their Voyage to the Weft Indies thefe Pyrates took a Portuguefe Bark, wherein they got valuable Plunder, but not contented with that alone, they laid they would have a little Game with the Men, and fo ordered them a Sweat, more for the Brutes Diverfion, than the poor Men's Healths; which Operation is performed after this Manner; they ftick up lighted Candles circularly round the Mizon-Maft, between Decks, within which the Patients one at a Time enter; without the Candles, the Pyrates poft themfelves, as many as can ftand, forming another Circle, and armed with Penknives, Tucks, Forks, Compaffes, &c. and as he runs round and round, the Mufick playing at the fame Time, they prick him with thofe Inftruments; this ufually lafts for 10 or 12 Minutes, which is as long as the miferable Man can fupport h'mfelf." (Cpt. Spriggs, p.412) (Johnson, Capt. C., A General History of the Pyrates, 2nd ed, London, 1724) Also, un-sourced in old notes: December 1715, Nassau based sloops Eagle (Welles) and Beersheba (Jennings) raided the Bahama Wrecks salvage camps on Hutchinson Island, FL., landing 150 armed men, divided into three squads, each with a drum and flag. |
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12 Feb 18 - 02:30 PM (#3905213) Subject: RE: What sea shanties did Blackbeard know? From: Thompson Another possible source - "Desire, Drink and Death in English Folk and Vernacular Song, 1600-900" (bearing in mind that I've never met a sailor who wasn't fond of a bawdy ballad). |
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12 Feb 18 - 03:39 PM (#3905225) Subject: RE: What sea shanties did Blackbeard know? From: GUEST,Ebor Fiddler "My lodging is on the cold ground" - popular from the Restoration onwards. A stage song popularised by one of Charles II's Mistresses. |
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12 Feb 18 - 10:46 PM (#3905283) Subject: RE: What sea shanties did Blackbeard know? From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch Stingo was enjoying the start of a good run about then. |
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13 Feb 18 - 04:23 AM (#3905317) Subject: RE: What sea shanties did Blackbeard know? From: GUEST,henryp The Drunken Maidens - from the Isle of White - was one of Baring-Gould's favourite songs, writes Martin Graebe in As I Walked Out. Baring-Gould traced the song back to Charming Phyllis's Garland printed in about 1715. |
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13 Feb 18 - 06:46 AM (#3905344) Subject: RE: What sea shanties did Blackbeard know? From: GUEST,henryp Isle of Wight! |
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13 Feb 18 - 07:12 AM (#3905350) Subject: RE: What sea shanties did Blackbeard know? From: SPB-Cooperator Subject: RE: What sea shanties did Blackbeard know? From: Big Al Whittle - PM Date: 09 Feb 18 - 06:31 AM The search for Blackbeard's ringbinder must commence in earnest. Or his ipad .... |
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13 Feb 18 - 07:46 AM (#3905362) Subject: RE: What sea shanties did Blackbeard know? From: Dave the Gnome Tsk. Ridiculous, Al. Everyone knows that Blackbeard did not have an ipad. He was an Android tablet user :-) |
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14 Feb 18 - 09:11 PM (#3905802) Subject: RE: What sea shanties did Blackbeard know? From: Keith A of Hertford Shanties are to boost pulling power. One reason naval ships did not use them was because they carried larger crews than merchant ships. Presumably pirate ships carried large crews for the same reason, fighting. It is silly to suggest that they did not sing in case someone heard them coming. |
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14 Feb 18 - 11:32 PM (#3905814) Subject: RE: What sea shanties did Blackbeard know? From: Gibb Sahib Nobody (more or less) today sings chanties when they sail in extant ships, large or small. Habitually, I mean. Because chanties are not "needed" as such, there is really no reason to assume anybody in the past sang chanties if documentary evidence does not say they did. Nor, to my mind, is there any reason to assume that someone on a ship would sing any songs they wouldn't sing while not on a ship. One might as well assume that Blackbeard sang beard songs or robber songs or washing dirty laundry songs. Focusing on the fact that Blackbeard was sometimes on a ship erroneously assumes that he sang some special ship songs, followed by the erroneous assumption that ship songs means chanty genre songs. What rock 'n' roll songs did Abraham Lincoln sing? |
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15 Feb 18 - 01:28 AM (#3905817) Subject: RE: What sea shanties did Blackbeard know? From: meself I read somewhere that pirate ships tended to have small crews - meaning, a bigger share for all. So, intimidation was preferable to actual fighting. |
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15 Feb 18 - 09:23 AM (#3905880) Subject: RE: What sea shanties did Blackbeard know? From: Lighter And mass singing off-key is pretty intimidating. |
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15 Feb 18 - 10:20 AM (#3905892) Subject: RE: What sea shanties did Blackbeard know? From: Severn Pirates didn't have ipads, they had eye patches. Too bad you can't sneak in "Teach Me Tonight" Some current tavern songs would be a good bet. Check out where and how Blackbeard spent his youth and figure out songs he might have grown up with and might have sung to himself. There were shore songs collected from sailors and they probably had one among the crew that would've been looked to entertain and others who were singled out for certain favored songs, as all who wanted to sing in off hours might have tried a song or two and had a special piece, just like in a pub. Maybe one crew member knew some sentimental songs that made them think of home amidst any tall tales and swaggering pub fare. |
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15 Feb 18 - 10:39 AM (#3905898) Subject: RE: What sea shanties did Blackbeard know? From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch Pirate-privateers were mercenary, state sponsored, religious terrorists. A tad worse than minstrels. Why the all the romantics? "One reason naval ships did not use them was because they carried larger crews than merchant ships." Lieutenant Robert Maynard would disagree methinks. ftm RN "Blue Lights" had their own ancient shanties and forebitters, the Psalms. |
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15 Feb 18 - 10:53 AM (#3905901) Subject: RE: What sea shanties did Blackbeard know? From: Mr Red It is inconceivable that Blackbeard didn't know songs. The OP didn't ask if he sang. What those songs were is anybodies guess. But in an artifice like a musical production about the lad - anything is permissible. The real question is "what would be believable?". That is the art of theatre! |
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15 Feb 18 - 11:17 AM (#3905909) Subject: RE: What sea shanties did Blackbeard know? From: meself Of course, what would be believable will depend on the make-up of the audience: how many of us will there be, as opposed to normal people? |
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15 Feb 18 - 11:34 AM (#3905915) Subject: RE: What sea shanties did Blackbeard know? From: Lighter The best theory is that Blackberd was tone deaf. That would render the question moot and save everybody time and annoyance. (Recall that Pres. Grant said he knew only two tunes. One was Yankee Doodle and the other one wasn't.) |
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15 Feb 18 - 12:28 PM (#3905924) Subject: RE: What sea shanties did Blackbeard know? From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch Foredeck goes for Val Doonican. Another lot want their Bob Dylan. Avast majority vote Adele but the Captain favors John B. Sail. "Right! All together now! Two-six-...." |
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15 Feb 18 - 02:32 PM (#3905952) Subject: RE: What sea shanties did Blackbeard know? From: Steve Gardham Write your own seems to be the best option. |
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19 Sep 19 - 06:23 AM (#4009552) Subject: International Talk Like a Pirate Day \ Blackbeard From: GUEST The presentation is as if they're pitching it at fourteen year olds & I don't think there is any music but there might be something here for Blackbeard & pirate fans in this BBC radio programme for 'Talk Like a Pirate Day'. - pirate compensation code ... six hundred pieces of eight for loss of a right arm four hundred pieces of eight for loss of a left arm - And there's a good bit about "a night with Venus, a life with Mercury" -syphilis, the urethral syringe (https://www.qaronline.org/conservation/artifacts/tools-and-instruments/urethral-syringe) & mercury poisoning. "Timbers are shivering as Greg Jenner digs down on the legendary pirate, Blackbeard. Why did Blackbeard blockade a small town while scratching himself in frustration? How many wives is too many wives? And what exactly did he put in his beard? He’s joined by historian and piracy expert Dr Rebecca Simon and comedian Stu Goldsmith, host of the fantastic Comedian’s Comedian podcast." This episode was produced by Dan Morelle, scripted by Greg Jenner and researched by Emma Nagouse. https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p07n8syy ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ btw International Talk Like a Pirate Day 19th September https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Talk_Like_a_Pirate_Day |
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19 Sep 19 - 08:14 AM (#4009562) Subject: RE: What sea shanties did Blackbeard know? From: Jack Campin The Wikipedia page on Blackbeard is good. It points out that Blackbeard didn't get people killed if he could help it, but exploited his scary image as far as possible to intimidate his targets. So it would make sense for his crew to use loud and frightening songs during an attack. "Liliburlero" would fit the bill - right period, and it's a faked-up song about a threatened massacre. |
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19 Sep 19 - 08:24 AM (#4009567) Subject: RE: What sea shanties did Blackbeard know? From: Lighter > to use loud and frightening songs during an attack. Because they couldn't play highland pipes. |
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19 Sep 19 - 02:49 PM (#4009622) Subject: RE: What sea shanties did Blackbeard know? From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch Music as force multiplier: "In September, 1814, during the War of 1812, Rebecca and Abagail Bates ("The Lighthouse Army of Two") warded off an attack by British soldiers by playing their fife and drum loudly. The British retreated since they thought the sound came from the Scituate town militia." Old Scituate Light |
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19 Sep 19 - 04:48 PM (#4009640) Subject: RE: What sea shanties did Blackbeard know? From: RTim NONE.....!!! Pirates and Shanties are Like Dinosaurs and Man - both existed BUT NOT at the same time!!! Tim Radford |
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19 Sep 19 - 05:15 PM (#4009642) Subject: RE: What sea shanties did Blackbeard know? From: Mrrzy Wow, I always thought that was bonny HEATHEN laddie. There are always labor songs sung by laborers, no? The Captain or foreman was not a laborer and did not join in. These songs were usually obscene and disrespectful of said non-singing authority. So Blackbeard's crew would have sung whie working and not sneaking, which would have been a lot of the time. |
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19 Sep 19 - 06:09 PM (#4009653) Subject: RE: What sea shanties did Blackbeard know? From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch The classic definition of shanties is 19th century, Anglo-American, merchant marine, w/lyrics, &c &c.... So no pirates. However, in recent, popular usage, the scope of its definition is sometimes expanded to admit a wider range of repertoire and characteristics, or to refer to a "maritime work song" in general. [wiki intro] The difference is 2300 years of celeusmata & other clamour nauticus not labeled as songs but howls, cries, chants, shouts &c &c. No reason to think the local version of Howe hissa! (or whatever) wouldn't have been popular with the lads. |
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19 Sep 19 - 06:18 PM (#4009658) Subject: RE: What sea shanties did Blackbeard know? From: Lighter In my experience, the non-specializing public cis likely to call *any* strongly melodic, retro sounding song related to the sea a "sea chantey." Assuming they even know the phrase - and many, many do not. (Only specialists say "chantey/ shanty" w/o "sea" to modify it.) |