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26 Apr 18 - 08:27 AM (#3920082) Subject: BS: antagonyms - list here From: Mr Red Wiki says: antagonym, Janus word (after the Roman god with two faces), enantiodrome, self-antonym, antilogy, or addad or even contranym single words that have two opposing meanings. just to get the list started 1) fast (speed) fast (stuck) 2) bolt (speed) bolt (fasten) - clue there for the origin of 1b) there are many more - what are your favourite ambiguity words? |
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26 Apr 18 - 08:50 AM (#3920088) Subject: RE: BS: antagonyms - list here From: Jos cleave - cling together / slice apart (as in cleaver) sanction - approve / impose penalties |
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26 Apr 18 - 09:36 AM (#3920098) Subject: RE: BS: antagonyms - list here From: Senoufou Ha! You've been reading Bill Bryson's Mother Tongue! I'd call them contronyms. Here are some more:- sanguine (bloodthirsty or calm and cheerful) ravish (to rape or to enrapture) trying (doing one's best or being annoying) blunt (dull as used for an instrument, but to the point when used for a remark) They're quite useful when writing school reports. For example, "James has been trying this term." |
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26 Apr 18 - 09:55 AM (#3920105) Subject: RE: BS: antagonyms - list here From: Rapparee But some of these are also nouns with meanings different from either of the verb forms: bolt: the projectile shot from a crossbow. blunt: a type of arrow without a sharp point. trying: rendering whale blubber into oil. "The Church will sanction the sanction." |
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26 Apr 18 - 10:05 AM (#3920108) Subject: RE: BS: antagonyms - list here From: Dave the Gnome Trump. 1. Fart. Noisy and full of wind. Unpleasant to the environment 2. President of the United States Oh, hang on, that is the same thing... :D tG |
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26 Apr 18 - 10:10 AM (#3920111) Subject: RE: BS: antagonyms - list here From: Senoufou Hahahahahaha Dave!!!!! Good one. |
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26 Apr 18 - 10:27 AM (#3920118) Subject: RE: BS: antagonyms - list here From: Nigel Parsons Endorsement (see 'sanction' above) |
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26 Apr 18 - 03:11 PM (#3920187) Subject: RE: BS: antagonyms - list here From: Donuel A poem composed of a dozen two faced words with an overall double entendre meaning could be a classic. |
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27 Apr 18 - 12:02 AM (#3920247) Subject: RE: BS: antagonyms - list here From: JennieG Execute - 1. To do away with someone. 2. To do something. Old joke: Mother to son's violin teacher "and what do you think of Little Jimmy's execution?" Music teacher: "I'm all in favour of it!" |
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27 Apr 18 - 03:01 AM (#3920257) Subject: RE: BS: antagonyms - list here From: Mr Red LOL and loll? |
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27 Apr 18 - 12:12 PM (#3920411) Subject: RE: BS: antagonyms - list here From: Tattie Bogle Refrain 1.Don't do it 2.Do sing it! Fatal 1.Determined by fate 2.Deadly |
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27 Apr 18 - 09:32 PM (#3920547) Subject: RE: BS: antagonyms - list here From: Rapparee There was a young fellow named Hall Who fell in the Spring in the Fall. It would have been a sad thing If he'd died in the Spring, But he didn't, he died in the Fall. |
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28 Apr 18 - 02:57 AM (#3920572) Subject: RE: BS: antagonyms - list here From: Mr Red pass over Passover reel - drum (non musical) real played on a bodhran - Musical (cue discussion which we won't pass over) |
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28 Apr 18 - 06:47 AM (#3920617) Subject: RE: BS: antagonyms - list here From: Raedwulf Ohhhhhhhhhh, here's one to get my amateur philologist dander up! (Great idea, Red! ;-) ) Fast - The original sense is 'firm, secure'. From 'firm' to 'strong, vigorous', from thence to 'quick' Bolt - OE 'arrow' In the sense of 'secure', it's the similarity of form (long & narrow); in the sense of speed (of horses, veg, et al) it's from the notion of 'fly like an arrow'. Cleave - This is an interesting one. Split. Cloven (as in hoof) is directly related. The opposite meaning derives from a word related to both clay & climb i.e. stick to! Sanction - this is simply "to approve". Positive or negative is beside the point. It derives from the Latin "to ratify". Sanguine - Another odd one. Literally 'of blood'. So bloody, bloodthirsty is fairly obvious. The cheerful aspect of the meaning comes from the medieval theory of humours (oddly enough, I was talking to someone down the pub about this yesterday in reference to melancholy!). Sanguine types were seen as having ruddy complexions (blood again) and optimistic personalities. Hence, cheerful. Although that sense is usually used in the negative ('not sanguine'). Ravish - to seize & carry off. So either literally (with implications), or 'of the senses'. Try - the origin of that word is in an Old French word meaning 'to sift'. You can sort out your own interpretations of the various uses! Blunt - Sorry, Sen, there's nothing pointed about blunt. Dull or insensitive are the OED definitions. Endorsement - 'write on the back of...' As with sanction, nothing in the word itself says it should be positive or negative in application. Execute - Simply, to carry out. Executing a sentence doesn't necessarily mean killing someone! Refrain - Another good one. In sense 1 (from the French), 'bridle' i.e. something that can stop something. In sense 2, also from the French, to break up (in the sense that a refrain 'interrupts' the narrative of the verses). The French origins are different words but, I suspect if you could track it back one step further, the convergent sense is obvious. Fatal - This does originate in the word fate, but the only given meaning of it is 'causing death'. There is no sense of 'determined by fate'. I hope this dreary exposition is of some interest. I had fun looking up some of the ones I wasn't sure of! ;-) |
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28 Apr 18 - 10:46 AM (#3920656) Subject: RE: BS: antagonyms - list here From: Jos 'sanction' may have originated from a word meaning 'to ratify', but words do change their meanings and acquire extra meaning, and, whether you like it or not, 'sanction' does now refer to penalties and punishments. Oxford Dictionaries |
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28 Apr 18 - 02:42 PM (#3920722) Subject: RE: BS: antagonyms - list here From: Splott Man Premium Premium rate: expensive Premium lager: cheap Splott Man |
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28 Apr 18 - 04:00 PM (#3920741) Subject: RE: BS: antagonyms - list here From: Raedwulf Jos, you have misunderstood. If you want to be precise about it (and therefore correct, in a limited sense), sanction can be used as a verb or as a noun. Sanction means 'to ratify'. If you sanction something, you approve it. Doesn't matter whether it's approving something seen as positive or negative. But, in that sense, sanction is a verb - you are doing something. Sanction, as a noun, is only used in the sense of 'penalty'. In that context, yes, you are correct. But that isn't the whole of the word, nor its original usage. |
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28 Apr 18 - 09:28 PM (#3920785) Subject: RE: BS: antagonyms - list here From: Rapparee "Sanctioning" is a gerund. |
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29 Apr 18 - 02:35 AM (#3920811) Subject: RE: BS: antagonyms - list here From: Jos I do know the difference between a noun and a verb. If you go to the Oxford Dictionaries site that I posted a link to, and look down the page to the ‘Verb’ section, you will see: 2 Impose a sanction or penalty on. Oxford Dictionaries base their definitions not only on a word’s origins, but on the way the word is currently used. (I didn’t like it when I first came across it, Raedwolf, but sometimes one has to accept that a large number of people may have a valid opinion different from one's own.) |
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29 Apr 18 - 04:13 AM (#3920830) Subject: RE: BS: antagonyms - list here From: Jack Campin Maybe they should be majoranyms. the Majorana particle |
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29 Apr 18 - 04:26 AM (#3920837) Subject: RE: BS: antagonyms - list here From: Raedwulf Jos - yes, it's one of the meanings, but only one; the other is also given in my OED (I double-checked everything in my first post against it to ensure I wasn't making a berk of meself! ;-) ). I'm not arguing that sanction doesn't mean "penalty", but you appear to be trying to argue that it ONLY means penalty. Which isn't the case; it's simply its most common usage at the moment. |
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29 Apr 18 - 05:24 AM (#3920849) Subject: RE: BS: antagonyms - list here From: Mr Red but on the way the word is currently used. precisely. Words morph. pre vent (aka prevent) from the Latin prevent (dis-enable) there is (used to be in the 60s) a Christian prayer that went: prevent us oh Lord and the vicar had to explain it by emphasising it as pre vent, because the meaning was literally to go before, ie lead, ie enable and encourage. And if you "go before" you can stop things. Etymology is clear, morphing is understandable but it leads to (pre vents?) an antagonymous duality. And is, in the context of the OP, curious. Now is designer a word that has any meaning worthy of usage? or does it mean expensive &/or cheap? |
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29 Apr 18 - 07:54 AM (#3920880) Subject: RE: BS: antagonyms - list here From: Jos "you appear to be trying to argue that it ONLY means penalty" Not at all, but I thought you were arguing that it ONLY means approve, as in: ' "Sanction - this is simply "to approve" ' (28 Apr 18 - 06:47 AM). Shall we leave it there - anyone who is interested can go back and read all our posts, so lets not bore everyone else. |
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29 Apr 18 - 11:05 AM (#3920907) Subject: RE: BS: antagonyms - list here From: Raedwulf Indeed, Jos! :) |
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29 Apr 18 - 11:08 AM (#3920909) Subject: RE: BS: antagonyms - list here From: Raedwulf And sorry, I've just realised, my bad, perhaps. I meant "approve" in the sense of "sign something off". In fairness to Myself, I did also say "Positive or negative is beside the point. It derives from the Latin "to ratify"." Play fair! ;-) |
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29 Apr 18 - 02:07 PM (#3920947) Subject: RE: BS: antagonyms - list here From: Dave the Gnome I just came across something new called 'malaphors'. Malformed metaphors. Seeing as we seem to have done with antagonyms I thought I may as well introduce them here. We'll burn that bridge when we come to it Is a bear Catholic? Don't count all your chickens in one basket It's like pulling teeth out of a stone Over to you :-) |
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29 Apr 18 - 04:43 PM (#3920980) Subject: RE: BS: antagonyms - list here From: Mr Red We'll burn that bridge when we come to it - a little difficult to do it at any other time! I can hear a Goldwynism looming. Which makes it sort of: plain sailing, but we are not out of the woods yet. Or am I sailing close to the wind-up? Don't count all your chickens in one basket - Which would be crying fowl or putting all your Basques in one exit? |
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29 Apr 18 - 08:00 PM (#3921024) Subject: RE: BS: antagonyms - list here From: Tattie Bogle Fatal: from Oxford Living Dictionary, one meaning of it, (apart from the commoner deadly one) derived from Middle English is "destined by fate". |
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30 Apr 18 - 06:03 AM (#3921077) Subject: RE: BS: antagonyms - list here From: Jos On malaphors - Some years ago it was claimed that the police at Nottinghill Carnival had been "leaning over backwards to maintain a low profile". I love that image. And a political example - After the last general election, some public figure (can't remember which) was described as "a liberal with a small 'c' ". |
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30 Apr 18 - 02:12 PM (#3921182) Subject: RE: BS: antagonyms - list here From: Donuel "I 'threw out' the idea of a peace summit today" |
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30 Apr 18 - 05:16 PM (#3921221) Subject: RE: BS: antagonyms - list here From: frogprince What this country needs is more men with real two-fisted guts on their shoulders. A former relative-by-marriage was a green beret, and at least as obsessed with being macho as anyone I've ever met. I tried that line on him once, just for the hell of it, and he just nodded with obvious enthusiasm. |
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30 Apr 18 - 06:00 PM (#3921225) Subject: RE: BS: antagonyms - list here From: Tattie Bogle My mother-in-law (RIP) was mistress of the malaphors and Malapropisms, though now struggling to remember many of them: should have written them down at the time. She did plead with us, before we visited the United States, not to "visit any of those black grottoes". |
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30 Apr 18 - 06:11 PM (#3921228) Subject: RE: BS: antagonyms - list here From: ketchdana Time to pitch the tent. ...over the cliff? Set it up? |
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01 May 18 - 03:11 AM (#3921274) Subject: RE: BS: antagonyms - list here From: Mr Red how about the satirical one about a politician at the hustings "They took us to the cliff edge but this party has taken a giant leap forward" sort of getting the wrong end of the barge pole. How about "up sticks and follow a new root"? or "it's raining cats and dogs, we are up the creak without a poodle" |