01 Mar 21 - 05:06 AM (#4095456) Subject: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians? From: GUEST,BlackAcornUK Happy St David's Day, all! Who are your favourite Welsh folk and traditional musicians? Though i'd be delighted to be corrected, so far I've been surprised to see how little there seems to be on Topic, compared to the work of Irish and Scottish practitioners; and Folkways doesn't seem much better. Many thanks in advance for any/all suggestions!! |
01 Mar 21 - 06:51 AM (#4095478) Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians? From: SPB-Cooperator Cromlech, Plethyn, Mabsant. |
01 Mar 21 - 07:53 AM (#4095485) Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians? From: The Sandman mabsant do not exist anymore |
01 Mar 21 - 07:56 AM (#4095486) Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians? From: GUEST Gareth Whelan |
01 Mar 21 - 08:00 AM (#4095487) Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians? From: GUEST,BlackAcornUK Thanks all, keep ‘em coming! Also, I’m not only after artists that are still practicing - anything good from the recorded era, especially Welsh equivalents of the sort of stuff Topic or Leader might have released for English, Scottish or Irish exponents |
01 Mar 21 - 09:55 AM (#4095507) Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians? From: leeneia In the 1990's I attended a session led by Mike Lease and Jane Ridout, who were then in the band called Hin Deg. They are excellent musicians. They had a fine singer named Heather, I think, with them. My favorite Welsh song is Y Deryn Pur (the pure bird) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFdfZ443A_4 |
01 Mar 21 - 11:28 AM (#4095523) Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians? From: Steve Shaw An absolutely beautiful album is Whilia by Fernhill, which features throughout the lovely singing of Julie Murphy, all in Welsh. It took me weeks to get over it! |
01 Mar 21 - 12:01 PM (#4095531) Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians? From: GUEST Intrumental bands of the recentish past: Crasdant, Cilmeri |
01 Mar 21 - 01:44 PM (#4095551) Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians? From: The Sandman calennig |
01 Mar 21 - 02:51 PM (#4095557) Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians? From: SPB-Cooperator There was wealth of recorded material on the (I think) Sian label. |
01 Mar 21 - 04:07 PM (#4095569) Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians? From: GUEST,matt milton John Tose bagpipes |
01 Mar 21 - 04:14 PM (#4095570) Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians? From: GUEST,matt milton Yscolan by Ceri Rhys Matthews |
01 Mar 21 - 04:19 PM (#4095571) Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians? From: GUEST,matt milton Christine Cooper ...also I remember the singer Georgia Ruth making interesting traditional folk music but she seems to have moved away towards singer-songwriter territory recently |
01 Mar 21 - 04:20 PM (#4095572) Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians? From: GUEST,Anne Lister sans cookie There are lots - current favourites are Nogood Boyo and VRi And of course I'm in Wales, if not born here at least brought up here, and now back again. |
01 Mar 21 - 04:24 PM (#4095573) Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians? From: GUEST,matt milton Cass Meurig Oes i Oes |
01 Mar 21 - 05:45 PM (#4095587) Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians? From: GUEST,BlackAcornUK Many further thanks, all - som great suggestions above; I note that many of them are relatively recent, or else from the mid-70s to early 80s - can anyone recommend earlier ‘source singers’? I’ve encountered Phil Tanner - who else should everyone hear? Are there Welsh counterparts to the McPeakes, the Coppers or the Stewarts? What about a Welsh Jeannie Robertson, Margaret Barry or Phoebe Smith? |
02 Mar 21 - 05:11 AM (#4095647) Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians? From: Splott Man There are some old recordings in the Wales Museum Song Archive with brief accompanying notes, but it's a start if you want to do further research. Splott Man |
02 Mar 21 - 05:54 AM (#4095650) Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians? From: GUEST There is a 'just out' video introduction at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoRdSkJLAfw which mentions a couple of early recordings It also gives a long playlist of short S4C videos of contemporary players some of whom may mention sources. More videos of contemporary players at https://trac.wales/our-work/taking-part/tune-chain/ The first of which mentions Nansi Richards as a source. IIRC she heard the romany musicians who kept the traditions going. |
02 Mar 21 - 11:19 AM (#4095686) Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians? From: Charmion Robin Huw Bowen! Rambunctious dance music on the triple harp. He talks, too. |
02 Mar 21 - 11:33 AM (#4095688) Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians? From: GUEST,ottery Seconding Steve Shaw - I love Whilia by Fernhill. Essential listening. Also, I love the Hwntws' version of Bachgen Bach o Dincer. Total earworm. You were warned. |
02 Mar 21 - 11:36 AM (#4095689) Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians? From: GUEST,ottery And thanks for the link Splott Man - I've been having a look now. It's very good. |
03 Mar 21 - 01:55 AM (#4095769) Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians? From: The Sandman Is it possible that the welsh singing and musical tradtions have been affected by the competitive Eisteddfods. Phil Tanner one of the most Respected tradtional singers from Wales came from the Gower peninsula, His songs were all in the English language, "Wales has a strong and distinctive link with music. Singing is a significant part of Welsh national identity, and the country is traditionally referred to as "the land of song". This is a modern stereotype based on 19th century conceptions of Nonconformist choral music and 20th century male voice choirs, Eisteddfodau and arena singing, such as sporting events, but Wales has a history of music that has been used as a primary form of communication. Historically, Wales has been associated with folk music, choral performance, religious music and brass bands." Other than Phil Tanner i cannot think of any TRADTIONAL singers, please correct me if i am wrong, this does seem strange ,was it that folk song collectors did not bother to go to Wales , we know that Sharp travelling by bicycle was restricted geographically and financially. |
03 Mar 21 - 02:10 AM (#4095770) Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians? From: The Sandman Has anyone collected trad welsh musio from PATAGONIA? |
03 Mar 21 - 04:06 AM (#4095786) Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians? From: GUEST,matt milton Yes, to echo Sandman's comments, I've also often wondered why Phil Tanner is literally the only Welsh traditional singer (with 'source singer'status) I know. I might do some digging on the British Library sound archives and the above Wales Museum Song Archive and see if anything comes up. |
03 Mar 21 - 04:49 AM (#4095790) Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians? From: The Sandman was there a prejudice at the time against welsh language songs by collectors and possibly even the EFDSS? or may be not a prejudice but just an idea that they should be collecting welsh songs in the english language it does seem that welsh singers tended towards glee and close harmony singing rather than unaccompanied tradtional was this the influence of the eisteddfod, i am not an expert on the subject and if i am showing ignorance on this matter please correct me |
03 Mar 21 - 04:52 AM (#4095791) Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians? From: The Sandman did the welsh methodist church or catholic church discourage or suppress traditional song. |
03 Mar 21 - 05:07 AM (#4095793) Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians? From: GUEST,RA The Sandman says: "we know that Sharp travelling by bicycle was restricted geographically and financially." Sure, but that didn't stop him travelling the Appalachians looking for English folk songs. I think he was probably just not particularly interested in Welsh culture, being an English nationalist of sorts. It's the same reason he didn't go to Ireland or Scotland. |
03 Mar 21 - 05:12 AM (#4095794) Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians? From: GUEST,matt milton I believe the above debate (Cecil Sharp and Wales) was discussed in a thread not that long ago. Maybe someone could link to it? I'd love to hear, as per the original poster's request, about any Welsh source singers other than Phil Tanner. Are there no 20th century field recordings of any Welsh traditional singers and/or musicians? The usual sources - Topic, Musical Traditions, Veteran - don't have any that I am aware of... |
03 Mar 21 - 05:36 AM (#4095795) Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians? From: GUEST,RA Check out Meredydd Evans. There was a double CD of him released in 2005, as listed in the above link: Merêd - 'Caneuon Gwerin' (Sain SCD2414). |
03 Mar 21 - 05:55 AM (#4095797) Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians? From: GUEST,jag If there were no 'source singers' such as were collected from by Sharp and others had the old songs all been forgotten or, in "the land of song", were they still so widely sung (and maybe written down) that the concept of a source singer was not relevant except for singing style? The video linked above (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoRdSkJLAfw) has a short section of a pre-WW2 recording of a performer singing 'in his own voice' and then in the style he remembered from his family. |
03 Mar 21 - 06:19 AM (#4095801) Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians? From: The Sandman sharp was financed by a philanthropist to go to appalachia. |
03 Mar 21 - 06:48 AM (#4095804) Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians? From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler In the same way that Pembrokeshire is known as "little England beyond Wales" most of the Gower peninsula was English speaking, the welsh speaking influence coming from the north side. When I lived there back in the late 70s it was Swansea Jack and Calennig as the local main acts. Robin |
03 Mar 21 - 07:36 AM (#4095813) Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians? From: The Sandman MickTems was he not in both groups, black belt? good singer and box player |
03 Mar 21 - 08:34 AM (#4095832) Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians? From: Long Firm Freddie As requested by Matt, link to previous thread: Sharp and Wales LFF |
03 Mar 21 - 10:17 AM (#4095848) Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians? From: The Sandman why didnt baring gould collect in Wales , unlike Sharp he was a man of independent means, i know he was busy producing 15 children and doing a lot of praying . but nobody critises him, yet in this thread Cecil has been described with some impertinence as an english nationalist. Sharp was not the only collector working around the turn of the 20 century, there was KIDSON BARING GOULD VAUGHAN WILLIAMS to name just a few |
03 Mar 21 - 10:33 AM (#4095850) Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians? From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler Yes Dick, I would be interested to see Mick's take on this subject. Robin |
03 Mar 21 - 10:42 AM (#4095853) Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians? From: SPB-Cooperator I am sure there is a source singer from Wales credited by J M Carpenter in his doctoral thesis. |
03 Mar 21 - 12:15 PM (#4095866) Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians? From: GUEST,RA Hilarious that the concept of English nationalism has been so debased by right-wing thugs that to accuse Cecil Sharp of it is regarded as 'impertinent'! |
03 Mar 21 - 12:26 PM (#4095869) Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians? From: The Sandman guest ra, so do you dismiss baring gould kidson vaughan williams, percy grainger as english nationalists, they did not collect in Wales. |
03 Mar 21 - 01:19 PM (#4095877) Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians? From: Bill D Although she died quite young, Siwsann George made one wonderful album. I think there are links to all of it on Youtube. |
03 Mar 21 - 01:23 PM (#4095879) Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians? From: The Sandman to SPBcOOPERATOR, here is a quoteFinding Aids to Individual Collections in the Archive of Folk Culture THE JAMES MADISON CARPENTER COLLECTION AFC 1972/001 Library of Congress Washington DC June 1996 SUMMARY The James Madison Carpenter Collection consists of manuscript materials, sound recordings, and graphic materials that document primarily British and American folk music, dance, and British ritual drama. The materials span the years 1928-55, with some dated 1972 and 1987. The bulk of the material was collected between 1928-35 by Carpenter during fieldwork in England and Scotland; other material was collected in the United States between 1937 and 1941 by Carpenter and his Duke University students. Through this effort, Carpenter amassed a collection of an estimated 1,000 ballad texts and 850 tunes of the Francis Child canon; 500 sea songs (including chanteys); 1,000 other ballads and songs (texts and many tunes) from Britain and America; 200 children's singing games, riddles, and nursery rhymes (texts and many tunes); 300 British folk plays (texts and some tunes); miscellaneous folktales, African- American spirituals, Cornish carols, and so forth; and approximately 500 related photographic images and 40 drawings. The collection was purchased from Carpenter by the Library of Congress in 1972. An oral history interview with the donor in 1972 and subsequent programs based on the materials complement the collection. Access and Reproduction: Listening and viewing access to the collection is unrestricted. Duplication of the recorded materials may be governed by copyright. Key Subjects: Afro-American spirituals, ballads, bothy ballads, castles, chanteys, Chedworth, Child ballads, children's games, children's songs, Christmas plays, Cornish carols, dreg songs, English Folk Dance Society, English folk plays, Hadrian's Wall, Helston Furry dance, mummers' plays, May Day festivals, morris dance, Pace Eggers, ritual drama, Roman baths, songs, Stonehenge, sword dance, wassailers Primary Languages: English, Gaelic, Scottish NO MENTION OF WALES, BUT I AM NOT AN EXPERT SO I COULD BE WRONG |
03 Mar 21 - 01:57 PM (#4095881) Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians? From: GUEST,RA I don't dismiss anyone for focusing on collecting in England, The Sandman. Neither do I dismiss Hamish Henderson for only collecting in Scotland. It's understandable that researchers want to, indeed have to focus on a particular area. This is not a dismissal or a negative criticism. Stop picking fights where there are none to pick, please. |
03 Mar 21 - 02:16 PM (#4095883) Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians? From: The Sandman It was you that said sharp was an english nationlist , i am pointing out he was no diferent from baring gould, kidson, vaughan williams and percy grainger other folk song collector Stop picking fights where there are none to pick, please. |
03 Mar 21 - 02:18 PM (#4095884) Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians? From: The Sandman be k8ind to Cecil , unlike baring gould he didnt have a wife he only had a bike |
03 Mar 21 - 02:27 PM (#4095886) Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians? From: The Sandman yea Siwsann George lovely singer |
03 Mar 21 - 03:06 PM (#4095892) Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians? From: GUEST,RA Put down the bottle, man! |
03 Mar 21 - 03:26 PM (#4095894) Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians? From: The Sandman HAHA I am not drinking anything other than tea |
06 Mar 21 - 06:00 AM (#4096288) Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians? From: Splott Man Carpenter did indeed collect in Wales, notably two retired seamen in Barry, who sang him some shanties. Mudcat's Dr Price could fill in more detail on this as he has spoken to at least one of them, and does sing some of them. Splott Man |
09 Mar 21 - 06:16 AM (#4096794) Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians? From: clueless don Many years ago, when I used to listen to Fiona Ritchie's Thistle and Shamrock radio show, Ms. Ritchie played some instrumental music (dance music) that she identified as Welsh. I remember the name of the group, but I don't know how to spell it! If I were to spell it phonetically, it would be "Alley Grogan". Anybody know anything about this group? Don |
09 Mar 21 - 06:39 AM (#4096800) Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians? From: GUEST,matt milton Not Welsh, but I feel like I should mention the singer May Bradley (just because she's really good). From the Welsh borders, which you can certainly hear in her accent. May Bradley |
09 Mar 21 - 09:05 AM (#4096823) Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians? From: GUEST,BlackAcornUK Hi all, very interesting discussion, thank you - Some of the points made are similar to things that had occurred to my own fancy - most of the stuff I could find on record - through SAIN, etc - seemed quite mannered, like it had been passed trough a mid-20th C Welsh version of Cecil Sharp's genteel, attenuating Edwardian arrangements. Prompted by the above reference to Hamish Henderson, I was really keen to see if there was an equivalent 20th C Welsh equivalent to him, Peter Kennedy, etc - someone very focused on capturing field recordings. It seems like David Roy Saer may be that figure - he seems to have conducted prodigious, dedicated fieldwork in Wales from the 1960s onwards: https://museum.wales/collections/folksongs/?action=background ...in the employment of the Welsh Folk Museum (Now St Fagans), and also under the influence of the Welsh Folk Song Society (he ultimately became the President in 2000). Check out some of the songs available here - Bertie Stephens' 'The Black Mare' blew my socks off!! https://museum.wales/collections/folksongs/ This is **exactly** the sort of thing I was looking for - and it looks like there's plenty more to explore. Also want to learn more about Ty Siamas, the centre for Welsh music: https://tysiamas.cymru/en/home |
09 Mar 21 - 06:54 PM (#4096913) Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians? From: Bill D I attended a house concert by Dafydd Iwan in the early 70s in Wash DC. He sang well and explained many of the sources. I wish there had been more like him. |
12 Mar 21 - 09:31 AM (#4097294) Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians? From: SPB-Cooperator Some of the Carpenter's informants: Edwards Ashbury? - Swansea Richard Warner - Cardiff Hefrum Methias - Cardiff - contributed "Chester Commodore" which Carpenter annotates as (Welsh Song). Capt.Jack Harris - Swansea. However the collected songs - for Carpenter's Doctorial Thesis were all in English. I think Mick Tems did some work bringing some of their songs to public performance. |
24 Mar 21 - 04:45 AM (#4099005) Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians? From: GUEST,ottery Last night I was lucky enough to be in the audience for a Zoom concert by Owen Shiers. He sang Welsh songs from Ceredigion from his album Cynefin, including one of my favourite trad Welsh ballads Dole Teifi. It was great. Hopefully one day, when the plague's buggered off, I'll be able to see him perform live. |
25 Mar 21 - 08:07 AM (#4099204) Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians? From: GUEST,Beachcomber How are the Welsh Folk Music Band "AR LOG" graded by Welsh Folk Music enthusiasts ? |