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08 Jan 23 - 07:22 AM (#4161698) Subject: BS: Nature or Nurture or........... From: Mr Red Luck I know it will raise some peoples hackles but: An article in the New Scientist (it's in the re-cycling right now) reported on a meta analysis which put nurture at between 0 and 20% (but to appease the politically motivated make it 25%) - it depends on the subject. What was found was that luck plays a part in how we present as a personality. And just to put a number on the Nature contribution they had a figure around 1/2. Which leaves maybe a third down to luck. And like the Nature v Nurture argument - you can argue the percentages till the politics become bloody obvious, but look at your own life before you do. |
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08 Jan 23 - 07:32 AM (#4161700) Subject: RE: BS: Nature or Nurture or........... From: Dave the Gnome I have no idea what you are on about Mr R. Sorry. Would you care to elucidate? |
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08 Jan 23 - 07:49 AM (#4161702) Subject: RE: BS: Nature or Nurture or........... From: Mr Red The message is LUCK plays a big part in our eventual personality. which is new to those wedded to the Nature v Nurture argument. |
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08 Jan 23 - 07:56 AM (#4161703) Subject: RE: BS: Nature or Nurture or........... From: Dave the Gnome Ahhh, OK |
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08 Jan 23 - 08:57 AM (#4161708) Subject: RE: BS: Nature or Nurture or........... From: Steve Shaw No idea what this is supposed to be about. |
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08 Jan 23 - 09:59 AM (#4161713) Subject: RE: BS: Nature or Nurture or........... From: Dave the Gnome Yea, I had that problem but from what I can gather it seems that people's personalities are not entirely down to their nature or how they were nurtured. I have not read the article but, trusting Mr Red's synopsis, I gather that there is an element of randomness or 'luck' involved. Seems to make sense. |
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08 Jan 23 - 10:33 AM (#4161718) Subject: RE: BS: Nature or Nurture or........... From: Donuel If Einstien had his theory tested on Mercury's orbit the first time and the weather had been clear enough to measure , he would have been known as the guy with a bum theory and got it wrong. You see his equation was wrong until he corrected it by the time the next test was done. He got lucky. |
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08 Jan 23 - 10:35 AM (#4161719) Subject: RE: BS: Nature or Nurture or........... From: Donuel If I am right, luck in various forms is hereditary |
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08 Jan 23 - 10:53 AM (#4161722) Subject: RE: BS: Nature or Nurture or........... From: Stilly River Sage The New Scientist link: Nature, nurture, luck: Why you are more than just genes and upbringing Your genes and environment play a big part in forming you, but there is an unexplored third element at play too: luck. The chance events that shape your brain in the womb may influence who you become as much as your genetics, and perhaps even more than the effect of parenting The teaser article published Sept. 21, 2022 The person quoted before the summary cuts out is Benjamin L. de Bivort from Harvard. When you visit his recent publications it looks like "Stochasticity, individuality and behavior." Honegger K, de Bivort B. Current Biology. 28, R8-R12, doi: 10.1016/j.cub.2017.11.058, 2018. Stochasticity being the high-falutin term for "luck." Pubmed link to the abstract. This is to the full text. |
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08 Jan 23 - 10:56 AM (#4161723) Subject: RE: BS: Nature or Nurture or........... From: Dave the Gnome I think it was Norman Wisdom who said "the harder I work, the luckier I get" |
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08 Jan 23 - 11:22 AM (#4161728) Subject: RE: BS: Nature or Nurture or........... From: MaJoC the Filk > "the harder I work, the luckier I get" Good luck is basically having both the right thing in front of you unexpectedly, *and* knowing how to use it. Another formulation is "Fortune favours the prepared mind", which apparently goes back to Louis Pasteur. (In some versions that's "chance favours *only* the prepared mind", but I'm open to debate on that.) |
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08 Jan 23 - 12:40 PM (#4161733) Subject: RE: BS: Nature or Nurture or........... From: Georgiansilver One of the most important aspects of life is reaching an age where you make the right choices.... For some that may be at a young age, for some it might come in middle age, for others it might never happen. |
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08 Jan 23 - 12:56 PM (#4161734) Subject: RE: BS: Nature or Nurture or........... From: gillymor "Luck is the residue of design"-Milton (sometimes attributed to Branch Rickey) In my sporting days guys used to say "it's better to be lucky than good" to which I'd say it's even better to be good and lucky. |
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09 Jan 23 - 11:42 AM (#4161866) Subject: RE: BS: Nature or Nurture or........... From: leeneia Hmmm. Isn't luck merely a fortunate circumstance in either nature or nature ? Suppose my family is starving and a philanthropic organization comes to my village and teaches my father to fish. That's luck, but it's also part of nurturing. If I happened to be born beautiful or to have excellent vision, those would be examples of luck in my nature. So I don't think there is another factor. Nature and nurture cover it all. |
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09 Jan 23 - 12:00 PM (#4161868) Subject: RE: BS: Nature or Nurture or........... From: Steve Shaw I'm with you there. |
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10 Jan 23 - 06:39 AM (#4161947) Subject: RE: BS: Nature or Nurture or........... From: MaJoC the Filk > Isn't luck merely a fortunate circumstance in either nature or nature? Coincidence, fortune, good luck .... call it what you will, it's still an independent variable IMHO. Take beauty: not only is it notoriously in the eye of the beholder, but said eye has a social and cultural context. Example: First, big eyebrows are thought |
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10 Jan 23 - 07:01 AM (#4161950) Subject: RE: BS: Nature or Nurture or........... From: Steve Shaw "Take beauty: not only is it notoriously in the eye of the beholder..." I could give you an argument there, especially when we're talking about the natural world (as opposed to cosmetic fads, though I'm as much an aficionado of the elegant female form as the next man... OK, regard that as a sexist failing if you like...) But I won't, if only because I mischievously left out some context from your quote... The trouble is, "beauty" is one of those rather mobile words that mean different things to different people. Darwin Nuñez scored an absolutely beautiful goal for Liverpool against Wolves in the FA Cup last weekend. That mushroom soup I made yesterday is a beauty... But I agree with you!! |
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10 Jan 23 - 08:09 AM (#4161955) Subject: RE: BS: Nature or Nurture or........... From: Donuel Epigenetics blur the line between nature and nurture. |
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10 Jan 23 - 09:33 PM (#4162013) Subject: RE: BS: Nature or Nurture or........... From: Mrrzy Epigenetics put Lamarck back in the picture. |
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10 Jan 23 - 10:11 PM (#4162019) Subject: RE: BS: Nature or Nurture or........... From: Donuel Being right for the wrong reasons is still being right. |
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11 Jan 23 - 10:00 AM (#4162068) Subject: RE: BS: Nature or Nurture or........... From: Mrrzy I'm with leeneia on this one. |
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12 Jan 23 - 06:15 AM (#4162189) Subject: RE: BS: Nature or Nurture or........... From: Mr Red No idea what this is supposed to be about. Bizarre comment from a person who knows everything. |
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12 Jan 23 - 07:16 AM (#4162195) Subject: RE: BS: Nature or Nurture or........... From: Steve Shaw Well I do seem to know more than you. |
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12 Jan 23 - 02:20 PM (#4162243) Subject: RE: BS: Nature or Nurture or........... From: McGrath of Harlow Nurture is just one important part of Experience, which is what matters. And Experience, including Nurture, is largely shaped by Luck. |
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13 Jan 23 - 07:12 PM (#4162382) Subject: RE: BS: Nature or Nurture or........... From: McGrath of Harlow One thing that's been largely ignored in this stuff about the miseries of being a 'spare" is that between 1830:and 2022 the only times the monarch was someone who'd been first-in-line when they were born was between 1901 and 1910, and a few months in 1936. "Spares" normally been the ones that inherited the throne. |
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16 Jan 23 - 10:57 AM (#4162652) Subject: RE: BS: Nature or Nurture or........... From: Donuel Would that be good or bad luck? |