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20 Feb 00 - 10:50 AM (#181635) Subject: Lyr Add: TRIMDON GRANGE EXPLOSION From: Wolfgang A song sung, e.g., by Martin Carthy and found in print, e.g., in A.L.Lloyd, Come all ye bold miners. The lyrics below are slightly different, but the notes are taken from A.L. Lloyd. Wolfgang TRIMDON GRANGE EXPLOSION
Let us not think of to-morrow,
Men and boys left home that morning,
February left behind it
Little children, kind and loving,
God protect the lonely widow, Notes: As sung (one verse only) by R. Sewell, of Newcastle (June 1951). Remainder of text from J. Jefferson, Trimdon Grange, Co. Durham. From a ballad by Thomas Armstrong who prescribed for it the tune 'Go and leave me if you wish it'; now it is usually heard attached to the come-all-ye type tune given here. The explosion occured on 16 February 1882. Seventy-four miners were lost (six of them died in the neighbouring East Hetton colliery, due to afterdamp seeping through from Trimdon). |
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20 Feb 00 - 12:21 PM (#181669) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Trimdon Grange Explosion From: raredance I don't know much about coal mine terminology or geology. Do you know what the phrase "afterdamp seeping through from Trimdon" means? rich r |
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20 Feb 00 - 01:34 PM (#181702) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Trimdon Grange Explosion From: Penny S. http://learningcurve.pro.gov.uk/snapshots/ No time for clicky thing, but this is The Public Records Office, and has additional information on the incident in the song. Penny |
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20 Feb 00 - 02:02 PM (#181716) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Trimdon Grange Explosion From: cujimmy I believe the song was written by Tommy Armstrong from Stanley County Durham "The Pitman Poet" from early 1900's, he wrote many more excellent songs and poems about life in the Durham coal towns and villages, a lot of them recorded by Bob Fox and Benny Graham - well worth listening to. |
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20 Feb 00 - 03:36 PM (#181752) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Trimdon Grange Explosion From: canoer "afterdamp" etc. possibly refers to methane gas seeping through a disrupted vein underground, into the adjacent mine, and igniting there. |
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20 Feb 00 - 04:59 PM (#181785) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Trimdon Grange Explosion From: Martin _Ryan The tune I've heard (and used) is a slow version of that known in Ireland as "I will and I must get married". Regards |
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20 Feb 00 - 05:01 PM (#181786) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Trimdon Grange Explosion From: Penny S. The sources at the site above state that "after-damp" is carbonic acid gas, presumably CO2. If you follow the links you will find portions of a survivor's account, the official report, registry entries of deaths, etc. The site was set up for educational purposes, and opened by one T. Blair. Trimdon is in T. Blair's constituency. Penny |
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20 Feb 00 - 05:14 PM (#181788) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Trimdon Grange Explosion From: Penny S. Trimdon Grange Sources I think the site may be mistaken in giving carbonic acid gas as after damp. There is also a reference to choke damp, and I thought that was CO2. The report gives emphasis to dust as a possible cause. Penny |
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20 Feb 00 - 06:21 PM (#181815) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Trimdon Grange Explosion From: BanjoRay Before I retired, I was a scientist with British Coal. There are many "damps" down a coal mine. The word comes from the German for gas (dampf). Each name comes from what the gas does or its origin rather than what it contains. Firedamp is methane gas because it burns. Blackdamp is carbon dioxide, because if there's enough present it will make you black out. Chokedamp is sulphur dioxide because of its smell and effect, stinkdamp is hydrogen sulphide (used in stinkbombs!) and afterdamp contains carbon dioxide and carbon monoxide among other things because it is the atmosphere after an explosion has taken place - it is poisonous as well as suffocating. Cheers Ray |
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20 Feb 00 - 11:44 PM (#181982) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Trimdon Grange Explosion From: raredance Great explanation, Ray. rich r |
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21 Feb 00 - 11:28 PM (#182551) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Trimdon Grange Explosion From: GUEST,Les B Ray, thanks much for the fine explanation. I did some filming in a coal mine, the last of the pony mines, in southern Iowa in the early 70's and heard the miners talk about "black damps" (and also white damps, I believe), but until now I had no idea of what they meant. |
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24 Feb 00 - 06:21 PM (#184286) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Trimdon Grange Explosion From: Penny S. Thanks Ray. I never knew the origin of the word damp, nor of the other types. Penny |
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24 Feb 00 - 06:58 PM (#184302) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Trimdon Grange Explosion From: Troll If you can find it, there is a great version by the English trad group Swan Arcade, complete with a brass band accompaniment. troll |
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25 Feb 00 - 12:17 AM (#184488) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Trimdon Grange Explosion From: Malcolm Douglas I've sent midis of the "come all ye" tune that A.L. Lloyd gives in "Folk Song in England" (still looking out for a copy of "Come All You Bold Miners"!), and the tune ("Go and Leave Me") that Carthy uses for Trimdon Grange, to the Mudcat Midi Site. Malcolm |
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25 Feb 00 - 08:26 PM (#185035) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Trimdon Grange Explosion From: Alan of Australia G'day, Thanks to Malcolm the tunes can be found here and here at the Mudcat MIDI site.
Cheers, |
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21 Mar 00 - 08:34 PM (#198992) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Trimdon Grange Explosion From: Garry Gillard I've put what I think Martin Carthy sings here. Garry |
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23 Mar 02 - 09:56 PM (#675135) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Trimdon Grange Explosion From: GUEST,s phelps Another version of "Trimdon Grange Explosion" that's well worth hearing - if you can find it - appears on the Mekons' classic '80s album "Honky Tonkin'." |
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23 Mar 02 - 10:34 PM (#675168) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Trimdon Grange Explosion From: Jon Bartlett I first heard the song on the Topic album devoted to the songs of Tommy Armstrong - a fine LP I've not seen since the 60's. I believe it was sung there by Louis Killen, but I could be wrong. It may have been the source for Carthy. I like singing the song but my partner says it depresses the hell out of her. |
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24 Mar 02 - 01:00 AM (#675223) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Trimdon Grange Explosion From: Troll Carthy may have gotten the song from Swan Arcade. They often performed with the Watersons as "Blue Murder." troll |
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24 Mar 02 - 08:34 PM (#675619) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Trimdon Grange Explosion From: Susanne (skw) Jon, the album you refer to is probably 'Along the Coaly Tyne' (1962). It had several Tommy Armstrong songs but other material as well, sung by Johnny Handle and Louis Killen who did indeed sing Trimdon Grange. |
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25 Mar 02 - 12:00 AM (#675724) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Trimdon Grange Explosion From: Jon Bartlett No, I think not, Susanne: the album I had was definitely titled (let me look up my song notes: by Christ, I've still got the original notes!) "Tommy Armstrong: The Great Balladeer of the Coalfields" TOPIC 12T122 with nothing but Armstrong's work on it, from "The Row Between the Cages" to "The Durham Lockout". The coaly Tune record I've never heard, but would certainly like to, the Tyne being one of my favourite places. |
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25 Mar 02 - 03:44 AM (#675759) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Trimdon Grange Explosion From: GUEST According to the notes from 'The Carthy Chronicles' Martin learned the song from Bob Davenport |
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25 Mar 02 - 06:03 PM (#676161) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Trimdon Grange Explosion From: Susanne (skw) Jon, you're probably right, I've heard that title before. The Musical Traditions site has a Topic discography you might check. And the 'Coaly Tyne' album should still be available from them or from second-hand shops. Definitely worth listening to! |
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25 Mar 02 - 07:46 PM (#676218) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Trimdon Grange Explosion From: Jon Bartlett Thanks, Suzanne, I'll check it out. |
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25 Mar 02 - 09:07 PM (#676269) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Trimdon Grange Explosion From: *#1 PEASANT* Trimdon Grange is to be found in my Beuk of Newcassell sangs Clicket right here you will find notation and a midi... After looking this up I feel a bit motivated to finish another 40-50 song addition.... Watch this space... Conrad |
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21 Jun 03 - 06:43 PM (#970332) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Trimdon Grange Explosion From: GUEST,Ariane in France hello everybody I am looking for my ancestors and recently I found a list of many french people coming from Lorraine (eastern France) who had settled in Trimdon, they had children who were christened in Trimdon. I suppose they emigrated to England to work in the mines but can anyone help me to find out? Most of these persons came from the french town of FRESNES-EN-WOEVRE (region of the MEUSE) around 1830s. Any clue about where I could find some more information? Thanks a lot anyway and my apologies for the disturbance; ARIANE LATAMNA |
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21 Jun 03 - 07:05 PM (#970343) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Trimdon Grange Explosion From: Gareth If they were Christened in Trimdon, then they should be on the respective Church Rolls. What religion ? If the Parish Churches or Tabernacles dont have the detail any longer, then the rolls may well be in the County Records. Bit late here tonight, I will do some research in the next day or so, and post here. Also bearing in mind that your ancesters originated in Lorraine it is possible they came to work in the Iron Founderies and smelters of "High Durham", again where the Coal, Iron Stone, and Lime Stone outcropped. I will revert. Log in again in say 24 hours. Gareth |
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22 Jun 03 - 02:56 PM (#970478) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Trimdon Grange Explosion From: Gareth ARIANE I have done a little searching for the most likely internet sites There is an education site here http://learningcurve.pro.gov.uk/snapshots/snapshot21/snapshot21.htm digging down into it will give you the casualty lists from the Trimdon Grange. I see no obvious French names, but please hold in mind any name may have been anglicised for the convenience of clerks. The Durham County record office Website is here http://www.durham.gov.uk/durhamcc/usp.nsf/pws/durham+record+office+-+durham+record+office+homepage they may be able to help you. There is a genealogic site relevant to Trimdon here http://website.lineone.net/~pjoiner/genuki/DUR/Trimdon/#Census You must also remember that with the development of heavy industry in the North East the labour force, particularly the skilled labour force was mobile, and may have moved from Colliery to Colliery, or Iron Works to Iron Works. Names may well have been anglicised for convenience. Now in Kent, there can be found on the present Electoral Rolls, many names of French origin, originally settled in East Kent as refugees from religious persecution, and the "Revolution". Trying to cast a parallel it is possible that a search through telephone directories may, even after this length of time, show some of the Original Names in the North East, Durham, Cleveland, Newcastle etc. Those I my thoughts, I wish you well in your search. Gareth - Any other 'Catters any better ideas ??? |
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22 Jun 03 - 04:43 PM (#970534) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Trimdon Grange Explosion From: JudeL You don't need to scour the second hand shops for an old record of "Along the Coaly Tyne". Topic records rereleased it as a cd with the bonus of including an extra few tracks from the High Level Ranters which were originally released as a separate LP called "Ranting Lads". "The Trimdon Grange Explosion" is track 15. It's not just being distributed from specialist shops either, mine came from HMV. |
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22 Jun 03 - 05:02 PM (#970546) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Trimdon Grange Explosion From: JudeL Looking through the notes with the cd I think it may be a different version from the one Jon's remembering as this one is listed as being written by Tommy Armstrong but sung by Louis Killen and was originally released on an EP called "Northumbrian Garland". It also notes that the tune differs from the air noted in 1951 and the song was originally sung to another tune altogether that of "The Cottage by the Sea". Don't know if any of this helps |
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04 Dec 06 - 11:16 AM (#1899712) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Trimdon Grange Explosion From: MuddleC A version by Louis Killen is on the CD 'The Iron Muse' --A panorama of Industrial Folk Music on Topic Records |
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04 Dec 06 - 06:01 PM (#1900058) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Trimdon Grange Explosion From: shepherdlass The 1930 edition of Tommy Armstrong's songbook, edited by his son gives the tune for this as "Go and Leave Me if You Wish It". |
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11 Aug 13 - 03:33 PM (#3547958) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Trimdon Grange Explosion From: GUEST,jim bainbridge At Birtley folk club in the mid 60s, after you'd paid 3d admission, there were always copies of Tommy Armstrong's 'collected works' for 6d (old pence for youngsters!)- in it the recommended tune was 'Go and Leave me if you wish it/to'- I'd never heard of this tune at the time, and assumed it was the one used by Louis Killen. Later I heard that A L Lloyd had taken a Balkan tune and applied it to Tommy Armstrong's words- this sounded quite likely to me- it certainly doesn't sound very English- Armstrong had a taste for more basic Irish/Scots tunes. I heard Bob Davenport sing it to a march tempo tune, and indeed recorded it to that tune on a private LP 'Trimdon' in 1976. Later again, I heard the Keane sisters sing 'Go and leave me..' and it all clicked into place, so I recorded it again on a CD a few years ago- all this came to mind when looking for info after the sad news of Lou Killen's demise a couple of days ago. |
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12 Aug 13 - 04:23 AM (#3548096) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Trimdon Grange Explosion From: GUEST,Blandiver Always loved the Alan Price non-folk pop version from 1969. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Id2zIWwBCUU |
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12 Aug 13 - 07:14 AM (#3548129) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Trimdon Grange Explosion From: GUEST,Trevor Sheridan The Tommy Armstrong booklet was sold at South Shields Folk Club when it was at The Beacon prior to moving to the Marsden Inn. John Price was selling them at the interval and I suspect had been brought in from Birtley Club. I still have mine and it was a "shilling" (bought in Feb 1964) and like Jim did not know the tune of Trimdon Grange Explosion. A few years later heard Percy Webb singing "Go and Leave Me if You Wish It" (still have the recording) and Jim's version on his CD is to that, (the recommended),tune by Tommy Armstrong. |
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02 Mar 14 - 05:45 AM (#3606370) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Trimdon Grange Explosion From: GUEST,Chris Lamb It may be of interest that Lou Killen's version of Trimdon Grange Explosion was almost certainly the inspiration for Philip Larkin's well-known poem 'The Explosion'. It appears as the last poem in Larkin's final volume of poems, 'High Windows' (1974). Although Larkin was famously a jazz lover, he did possess the album 'Along the Coaly Tyne' and chose one track from it, 'Dollia', sung by Lou Killen, as one of his Desert Island Discs in 1976. So he would certainly have heard and probably remembered Killen's singing of Trimdon Grange Explosion when he came to write his poem in 1970. Of course, Larkin's images depict the tragic event in his own way, but reflect some of the sentiments expressed in the song, e.g. 'The dead go on before us ... we shall meet them face to face'. The Explosion, by Philip Larkin On the day of the explosion Shadows pointed towards the pithead: In the sun the slagheap slept. Down the lane came men in pitboots Coughing oath-edged talk and pipe-smoke, Shouldering off the freshened silence. One chased after rabbits; lost them; Came back with a nest of lark's eggs; Showed them; lodged them in the grasses. So they passed in beards and moleskins, Fathers, brothers, nicknames, laughter, Through the tall gates standing open. At noon, there came a tremor; cows Stopped chewing for a second; sun, Scarfed as in a heat-haze, dimmed. The dead go on before us, they Are sitting in God's house in comfort, We shall see them face to face - Plain as lettering in the chapels It was said, and for a second Wives saw men of the explosion Larger than in life they managed - Gold as on a coin, or walking Somehow from the sun towards them, One showing the eggs unbroken. |
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02 Mar 14 - 06:35 AM (#3606380) Subject: Lyr Add: LAST OF THE WIDOWS (Jez Lowe) From: JHW 'High Windows' is on my bedside table but thanks very much for the reminder and reference. Jez Lowe 'Last of the Widows' The last of the widows of the Duck Bills Seam Is lying tonight with her young man again. They're clinging fast together, soothing sighs and pain, And coaxing back the love their loss survived. The last of the widows of the Duck Bills flare, Is brushing black dust from his strong brown hair. He's stretched on her bosom with his love laid bare, And making up for time fate stole away. Parting words were never spoken, last kisses never broken. She never even watched him walk away But the last of the widows of the Duck Bills seam Reached out and took his hand again today. The last of the widows of the Duck Bills fire Stood bleak and bewildered as the count climbed higher, Then wept for the world across a newsroom wire, When she heard his name called out across the crowd. And when the world had turned to leave, eighty women turned to grieve, And cursed their compensation through their tears, But the last of the widows of the Duck Bills seam Can close her eyes and wipe away the years. The last of the widows of the Duck Bills flame Is free of the lonely nights of bitterness and blame, And there's some who'll remember when they speak her name, The reason why she lived so long alone. And in the fields above the dangers of Gresford, Trimdon Grange, Haswell, Hartley Beam and Markham Main, The last of the widows of the Duck Bills seam Is walking with her miner lad again. |
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18 May 19 - 01:03 PM (#3992870) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Trimdon Grange Explosion From: GUEST so where did the commonly sung Louis Killen tune come from? |
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18 May 19 - 02:41 PM (#3992895) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Trimdon Grange Explosion From: Felipa I first heard this song from live singing of John Roberts and Tony Barand. I think it was from them that I heard that songs like this were composed, printed up and sold for funds for deceased miners' families. |
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19 Feb 23 - 04:34 PM (#4165568) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Trimdon Grange Explosion From: Felipa I've just been reading an article from Feb 2022, the 140th anniversary of the Trimdon Grange Explosion. It has a lot of detail and brings out the horror of the explosion and its aftermath in a way that the song (for me anyway) doesn't. https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/history/19907851.140-years-since-disaster-trimdon-grange-disaster-killed-74/ Apparently the six people who died from poisonous gas at Hetton Colliery in Kelloe were a rescue party: "Kelloe pit, two miles away, was connected underground to Trimdon Grange, and undermanager Herman C Shler took a rescue party in that way. They saw the extraordinary force of the blast had blown doors open, and then they succumbed to the afterdamp - poisonous gases created by the explosion. Five would-be rescuers, including 73-year-old Mr Shler, died at Kelloe." |
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20 Feb 23 - 02:49 AM (#4165598) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Trimdon Grange Explosion From: The Sandman the commonly used tune, was a hymn tune. the song for me and the tune using certain chords expresses the horror very well "Go and Leave Me if You Wish It" is the hymn tune |
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20 Feb 23 - 12:12 PM (#4165633) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Trimdon Grange Explosion From: GUEST,jim bainbridge I'm not clear what you mean, Dick- which is the 'hymn tune' & why do you say that? I'm pretty sure Bert Lloyd didn't know Tommy Armstrong's direction as to the tune, and set it to the now established tune from his Balkan collections, but it's a long time ago. Louis Killen knew Lloyd well & I suspect that's how it got into circulation, also via the EP 'Northumbrian Garland' - early 60s?- that's where I first heard it.... |
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20 Feb 23 - 02:18 PM (#4165643) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Trimdon Grange Explosion From: Reinhard Jim, Bert Lloyd did know. See his comment from Come All Ye Bold Miners quoted in the first posting of this thread. |
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20 Feb 23 - 06:09 PM (#4165663) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Trimdon Grange Explosion From: Felipa also of interest. website of the Durham mining museum http://www.dmm.org.uk/mindex.htm |
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21 Feb 23 - 04:50 AM (#4165712) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Trimdon Grange Explosion From: GUEST,jim bainbridge Reinhard, I have that publication & it's not at all clear what he means - no reference to the tune, and he's compiled it from two sources but it was already written down by Tommy Armstrong along with his preferred tune.. There is other controversy about the validity of other songs allegedly collected by Lloyd, so I think I'll stick with my opinion, although that's all it is.... |