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12 Jun 97 - 11:45 PM (#6719) Subject: Wolfhound From: Alison Hi I'm not sure if this has actually been turned into a song, but I think I did hear one years ago. The story goes....... There was a lord who had a son, and a wolfhound. Anyway the lord went out (doing whatever lords do,) and left the wolfhound to look after the son. (Social workers would have a field day...) When he got back the child was on the bed covered in blood and the wolfhound had blood around his mouth. So the lord killed the wolfhound. Later on closer inspection the lord found a wild animal (can't remember what), lying behind the bed where the wolfhound had killed it, and the blood on the boy, (who was only sleeping), was that of the faithful wolfhound. 1...2...3............Aaaaaahhh!!!! Is there a song? Slainte Alison |
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13 Jun 97 - 10:50 PM (#6798) Subject: RE: Wolfhound From: Bo Sounds like a great basis for a song if there isnt one already. Are there any more 'true' details you have? ie Lord's Name, location, etc..... |
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14 Jun 97 - 12:07 AM (#6799) Subject: RE: Wolfhound From: Alison Hi Sorry, I have no further details. It's probably an old Irish story. alison |
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19 Jun 97 - 07:41 PM (#7081) Subject: Lyr Add: THE WOLFHOUND (Alan Foster) From: Alan of Australia Alison, Maybe if we can't find one we can write one. THE WOLFHOUND
by Alan Foster
Lord Redmond's to the hunting gone
And he has hunted many an hour
And when the lord's returned home
Oh bloody hound, oh bloody hound
As he has shed a bitter tear
How came the blood upon your clothes
Oh faithful hound, oh trusty hound
Oh rue the day, oh rue the day
Here is the tune in Sol-fa. It's one of the tunes used these days for Willy of Winsbury (Child #100). Taking it to be in the natural minor the base octave is l-t-d-r-m-f-s, (refer to the thread on Sol-fa notation).
:m<|l:-:l.t|d:-:d.r|m:-:m|r:-
Chords for E minor, if they look a little strange it's because I have partially arranged it for the dorian mode.
|Em:-:-|-:-:-|G:-:-|A:-:-|
Cheers, |
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19 Jun 97 - 07:47 PM (#7083) Subject: RE: Wolfhound From: dick I like both your song and your style. Keep that tradition alive! (and I wonder how the words and music will change after a few people sing it.) |
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19 Jun 97 - 08:07 PM (#7084) Subject: RE: Wolfhound From: Alan Thanks Dick. They'll probably change for the better. I'd be delighted if people did sing it. Cheers, |
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19 Jun 97 - 08:41 PM (#7088) Subject: RE: Wolfhound From: Alison Hi Thanks Alan. I love the song. slainte alison |
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20 Jun 97 - 09:05 AM (#7119) Subject: RE: Wolfhound From: Bert Hansell Alan, that's a Great song, I'l try singing it when I get home tonight. Bert |
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20 Jun 97 - 09:41 AM (#7123) Subject: RE: Wolfhound From: Dave of Derby U.K. Nice one Alan. I will certainly use your words with appropriate acreditation to you. Many Thanks ... Dave |
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21 Jun 97 - 01:17 AM (#7161) Subject: RE: Wolfhound From: alison Hi After having sung this last night at a Sydney folk club, (well Alan sang and I accompanied him on flute.....) we now have some more info. It actually started out as a Welsh folk tale, which was then adapted into other cultures and varied accordingly. Apparently Thomas Moore set it to music. If anyone has any more details please let me know. slainte Alison |
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29 Jul 97 - 06:51 AM (#9731) Subject: RE: Wolfhound From: Alan of Oz G'day, We were at a poetry night last week and sang the above song. Afterwards one of the poets said he thought Tennyson had written a poem telling this story, and that the hound's name was Gelert. A search of the net failed to find a relevant Tennyson poem, but a search for gelert found these. http://www.nwi.co.uk/beddgelert/legend/ http://www.g-net.demon.co.uk/gelert.htm Cheers, |
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29 Jul 97 - 08:12 AM (#9737) Subject: RE: Wolfhound From: Bill in Alabama It is a poem by Tennyson. I'll get it down here as soon as I get back from my class this morning. |
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29 Jul 97 - 11:09 AM (#9756) Subject: RE: Wolfhound From: Bill in Alabama It's NOT a poem by Tennyson (I reckon I'm skundered). It is a poem William Robert Spencer, entitled "Beth-Gelert, or, The Grave of the Greyhound". I found it in a book entitled The Best Loved Poems of the American People. It's a twenty-four stanza poem set in the standard ballad stanza and metre(4A 3B 4A 3B). I don't mind typing the text here, but I'm not sure that I can get it to come out in the correct stanzaic form. Any suggestions?
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29 Jul 97 - 11:40 AM (#9759) Subject: RE: Wolfhound From: Jon W. Bill - see the HTML-related threads in this forum for formatting suggestions. Basically, to get a real carriage return you have to insert <BR> in your text where you want the line to end. Also use your Document Source selection under your View menu in your browser. |
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29 Jul 97 - 06:25 PM (#9794) Subject: RE: Wolfhound From: Susan of DT A related Welsh legend. According to the Mabinogion, Rhiannon (immortal) wife of King Pwyll (mortal) had a child. When the child died its first night, the nurses had Rhiannon blamed by smearing the child's blood on Rhiannon's face and hands. |
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29 Jul 97 - 08:53 PM (#9803) Subject: RE: Wolfhound From: Kiwi Hey Alan, I like the song! If only I could come up with the tunes like that... I've had an idea simmering in the back of my head for the past _two months_ and it still hasn't borne any fruit. |
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30 Jul 97 - 04:48 AM (#9837) Subject: RE: Wolfhound From: Alan of Oz Kiwi, Thanks, but I didn't write the tune. I was trying to fit a Child ballad tune to the words and this is the one I settled on. I don't know the full story to this tune being attached to Willy O' Winsbury but I do know it happened as the result of a mistake. Somebody looked up the wrong tune, then found it worked. I think it works with The Wolfhound too. Cheers, |
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30 Jul 97 - 07:42 PM (#9888) Subject: RE: Wolfhound From: Kiwi Alan, I misspoke myself. I meant the lyrics, not the actual tune itself. :) |
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14 Aug 97 - 07:58 PM (#10454) Subject: Lyr Add: BETH GELERT (William Robert Spencer) From: Alan of Australia We've sung the song at a number of venues now and each time someone adds a bit to our knowledge of the story. The latest is from a bloke from Birmingham England who is familiar with the village of Beddgelert. His father used to tell the tale and he (the son) knew it was true. Then he heard the same story from Russia and again from India. An ancient urban myth.
After singing the song at a poet's night one of the poets mailed a photocopy of this which I scanned:-
WILLIAM ROBERT SPENCER 1769-1834
Beth Gelert; or, The Grave of the Greyhound
The spearmen heard the bugle sound,
And still he blew a louder blast,
'Oh where does faithful Gelert roam,
'Twas only at Llewelyn's board
In sooth he was a peerless hound,
And now, as o'er the rocks and dells
That day Llewelyn little loved
Unpleased Llewelyn homeward hied,
But when he gained his castle door
Llewelyn gazed with fierce surprise;
Onward in haste Llewelyn passed,
O'erturned his infants bed he found,
He called his child--no voice replied--
'Hell hound! my child's by thee devoured,'
His suppliant looks, as prone he fell,
Aroused by Gelert's dying yell,
Concealed beneath a tumbled heap
Nor scathe had he, nor harm, nor dread,
Ah, what was then Llewelyn's pain!
Vain, vain was all Llewelyn's woe:
And now a gallant tomb they raise,
There never could the spearman pass,
And there he hung his horn and spear,
And till great Snowdon's rocks grow old,
Note that the accent is on the first syllable of Gelert and Beddgelert is pronounced Beth Gelert as in the title of Spencer's poem. So, Alison, you were right and here is the original poem. It's a bit long to sing to the average audience though. Cheers, |
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14 Aug 97 - 08:28 PM (#10456) Subject: RE: Wolfhound From: Joe Offer I'm glad you were able to scan it, Alan. I've been feeling guilty because I have the Spencer text and have been too lazy to type it. -Joe Offer- |
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14 Aug 97 - 09:15 PM (#10463) Subject: RE: Wolfhound From: Alan of Oz Joe, No worries! I wouldn't have wanted to type it either! Cheers, |
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15 Aug 97 - 05:21 AM (#10483) Subject: RE: Wolfhound From: Laoise, Belfast That is one of the saddest poems I've ever read. Pass the Kleanex... Laoise.
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23 Jan 98 - 02:13 AM (#19743) Subject: RE: Wolfhound From: Joe Offer Say, Alan, now that we have ABC and MIDI posting capabilities, I thought I'd revive this thread and ask if you could post the tune to your Wolfhound song. I've wanted to hear the tune for a long time, but I couldn't figure out your sol-fa notation. Thanks. -Joe Offer- |
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23 Jan 98 - 04:06 PM (#19764) Subject: RE: Wolfhound From: Jim T. This may not be terrible relevant, but the TV show on Discovery ch. with Tim Grundy & his cameraman covered this legend. At the end, Tim turns to the cameraman who is supposedly moved by the story, and says "Look give over, it probably died in its basket of old age" |
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23 Jan 98 - 07:16 PM (#19784) Subject: Tune Add: THE WOLFHOUND and GILL MORICE From: Alan of Australia G'day, Here 'tis as currently played:-
MIDI file: WOLFHND.MID Timebase: 480 Name: The Wolfhound This program is worth the effort of learning it. To download the January 15 MIDItext 98 software and get instructions on how to use it click here ABC format: X:1
This is the tune used by Pentangle and others for Willy O' Winsbury (Child #100). The story of this tune being attached to W O' W may almost be urban myth but apparently someone looked up the tune and mistakenly got the tune to another Child ballad. I don't know which one but here is Bronson's tune No. 7 for Gill Morice (Child Maurice) Child #83. If you change the time signature and swing it a bit you'll probably hear the similarity.
MIDI file: GILLMORI.MID Timebase: 480 Name: Gill Morice (Child #83) This program is worth the effort of learning it. To download the January 15 MIDItext 98 software and get instructions on how to use it click here ABC format: X:1 Cheers, |
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23 Jan 98 - 07:17 PM (#19785) Subject: Chords Add: THE WOLFHOUND (Alan Foster) From: Alan of Australia And the chords fit thusly:- THE WOLFHOUND by Alan Foster
------Em---------------G-------A by Alan Foster
Cheers, |
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27 Jan 99 - 04:17 PM (#55967) Subject: RE: Wolfhound From: rhiannon, wales Hi, surfed in to your site "by accident". You all sound like nice guys and ladies but - wahhh! some of your stuff got me really cross! Yes, the legend of the hound/prince/baby is directly connected to Beddgelert in Wales. I really wish people would check things out before writing songs about them, and especially performing them : this is how legends get lost, by being wrongly interpreted. And yes I know about the "developing tradition" argument - developing is one thing, changing is another!!! For instance, thanks to Stevie Nicks/Fleetwood Mac's song "Rhiannon", I'm sick of telling old Mac freaks that Rhiannon was NOT a witch, but a Queen. Sure, it's a great song, BUT ! re. Susan of DT's reference to the child of Rhiannon and Pwyll, Prince of Dyfed : the child did not "die its first night" as stated here - a great claw came through the window of the chamber and took it away. The ladies of the chamber did indeed blame Rhiannon for its loss by claiming she had killed it; but the child was LOST not dead. As he later re-appears, and the whole of the rest of the Mabinogi is all about his life, (underneath all the side-tracking) this is a pretty relevant factor! Check out the Four Branches of the Mabinogi for the correct legend please! Next thing we know, somebody'll be writing songs about Rhiannon The Child Murderer!!!!! I guess you now think I'm a really bad tempered piece - but this is my country and my culture under discussion and I care about it not being messed about. Thank you. |
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27 Jan 99 - 05:25 PM (#55977) Subject: RE: Wolfhound From: Baz rhiannon, wales Perhaps the Welsh are partly to blame in this respect. On a recent visit to Bed Gelert (please forgive the spelling)I picked up a postcard, printed in Wales, and it told the story much the same as Alan's song does. Regards Baz |
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27 Jan 99 - 09:12 PM (#56006) Subject: RE: Wolfhound From: alison Hi Rhiannon, Are you saying that the wolfhound story is wrong or just the Rhiannon one? I know Alan researched it at the time, and his version is pretty much the information he got from the information available about Beddgelert, and an old poem. At the time we didn't have Spencer's poem written above, so yes the "lord" ended up with the wrong name. Maybe next time he'll sing it as Llewelyn. (Bear in mind it was written by an Aussie, from a vague recollection of a story by an Irish girl...... I think he did a good job.) There are a lot of people visit this site.... from all over the world, so we don't get everything accurate about other people's countries and, traditions and heritage.... that's what makes this site interesting...... we're here to learn about each other too...... as well as the music. So please feel free to correct us.... and give us more info on Wales. Slainte alison |
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28 Jan 99 - 05:38 AM (#56058) Subject: RE: Wolfhound From: Alan of Australia G'day, It's interesting now to see how this thread developed. If I'd had all the "facts" and a copy of Spencer's poem to start with I'd never have written a song at all. I suppose legends can be lost when someone rewrites them (although I don't expect "The Wolfhound" to supplant the Gelert legend) it's happened several times with this legend since it first appeared at least by about 540 AD in India. Several months ago I acquired a copy of "Myths Of The Middle Ages" by Sabine Baring-Gould, edited by John Matthews. In this book B-G traces the Gelert legend to the 14th century 'Gesta Romanorum', which resulted in the tale being widely known throughout Europe (A Medi‘val urban myth?). In this version there is a knight named Folliculus, a greyhound and a serpent with the addition of a falcon which woke the greyhound when the serpent appeared. This in turn can be traced by a series of steps to the Indian tale mentioned above where the animals are an ichneumon and a black snake. This is recorded in the Sanskrit Pantschatantra. Further versions appear in Mongolia, China, Persia etc. etc. where the faithful animal varies amongst ichneumon, otter, weasel, cat or dog. In fact it appears that the Gelert version was constructed by a man called David Pritchard who moved to Beddgelert in 1793 & adapted the tale to this new setting. With the help of parish clerk he erected the "grave" himself. He derived the name Gelert from the name of the village which in reality takes its name from the grave of an early Celtic warrior named Celert. It also seems that Pritchard told his version of the tale to Spencer who made the story more popular with his ballad version. So, Rhiannon, if you are cross about the twisted story of your namesake please forgive me for "The Wolfhound". I don't think I've done much different from many other people over the centuries who have taken an incompletely remembered story and fleshed it out in their own way. I now have more knowledge of the background to the story but still would not see a need to change my version.
Cheers, |
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23 Mar 99 - 11:36 AM (#65319) Subject: RE: Wolfhound From: MMario I sang The WolfHound this weekend - and it was very well recieved.... Thanks to The Mudcat and Alan for the song! MMario |
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30 Sep 02 - 04:08 PM (#794221) Subject: St. Guinefort From: MMario reading a novel the other day and one of the charactors patron saint was St. Guinefort - who was a dog. curiosity aroused - I checked on the web and found this: " ...St. Guinefort. I thought he was some saint. I made inquiries and at last heard that he was a certain greyhound killed in the following way. In the diocese of Lyons, close to the vill of the nuns called Villeneuve, on the land belonging to the lord of Villars-en-Dombe, there was a certain castle whose lord had a baby son from his wife. But when the lord and lady and the nurse too had left the house, leaving the child alone in his cradle, a very large snake entered the house and made for the child's cradle. The greyhound, who had remained there, saw this, dashed swiftly under the cradle in pursuit, knocking it over, and attacked the snake with its fangs and answering bite with bite. In the end the dog killed it and threw it far away from the child's cradle which he left all bloodied as was his mouth and head, with the snake's blood, and stood there by the cradle all beaten about by the snake. When the nurse came back and saw this, she thought the child had been killed and eaten by the dog and so gave out an almighty scream. The child's mother heard this, rushed in, saw and thought the same and she too screamed. Then the knight similarly once he got there believed the same, and drawing his sword killed the dog. Only then did they approach the child and find him unharmed, sleeping sweetly in fact. On further investigation, they discovered the snake torn up by the dog's bites and dead. Now that they had learned the truth of the matter, they were embarrassed (dolentes)that they had so unjustly killed a dog so useful to them and threw his body into a well in front of the castle gate, and placing over it a very large heap of stones they planted trees nearby as a memorial of the deed. But the castle was in due course destroyed by divine will, and the land reduced to a desert abandoned by its inhabitants. The local peasants hearing of the dog's noble deed and innocent death, began to visit the place and honor the dog as a martyr in quest of help for their sicknesses and other needs. " Stephen of Bourbon's exemplum On the worship of the dog Guinefort elsewhere I found: "Despite the best efforts of the Inquisition to eradicate the cult of Saint Guinefort, people continued to visit the grove up to 1940, praying for the protection of their children. In 1987,.a movie was even made about the dog and his cult." |
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30 Sep 02 - 04:16 PM (#794226) Subject: RE: Wolfhound From: wysiwyg Yeah, I heard that Guinevere was a real dog. ~S~ |
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01 Oct 02 - 03:43 AM (#794653) Subject: RE: Wolfhound From: Big Tim There's an Irish music group called Wolfhound, from Belfast I think, who seem to specialise in recording Irish rebel songs. There's also a major publisher in Dublin called Wolfhound. |
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07 Mar 05 - 01:49 PM (#1428989) Subject: RE: Wolfhound From: GUEST,palmer ite u write pretty good <>..........................lol joke not love s u |
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19 Mar 09 - 03:05 PM (#2592799) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Wolfhound / Beth Gelert...the Greyhound From: GUEST Llewellyn (the lord) |
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22 Mar 09 - 02:48 PM (#2594644) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Wolfhound / Beth Gelert...the Greyhound From: Jim Dixon Versions of this story are still being told as current news. See Snopes. It says the oldest known version of the story comes from India, in the Panchatantra, and concerns a mongoose and a snake! |
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29 May 17 - 12:02 AM (#3857642) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Wolfhound / Beth Gelert...the Greyhound From: Joe Offer Do you think there's a connection between Brahmin and the Mongoose and Kipling's Rikki-Tikki-Tavi? Seems to me the earlier story must have inspired Kipling. -Joe- |
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29 Jun 17 - 11:30 PM (#3863523) Subject: Lyr Add: ECHO MOUNTAIN (James King) From: Jim Dixon Here's a bluegrass-style retelling of the same story. ECHO MOUNTAIN As recorded by James King on "The Bluegrass Storyteller" (2005) Now up on Echo Mountain in the spring of thirty-two Jim and Becky Johnson, with a Bible and a mule, Set out to raise a fam'ly, but the babies didn't come, So when they found that old stray hound, they loved him like a son. But soon their prayers were answered; the baby had his mama's eyes. How that old dog loved him! He would never leave his side. They could always trust that faithful hound with the baby they all loved, Till the day the child was missin' and the dog was drenched in blood. Now the cries on Echo Mountain are a painful thing to hear. All the neighbors know the reason for the Johnsons' bitter tears. When a man don't use good judgment, it's the innocent who pay. Now the cries on Echo Mountain will haunt me to this day. Jim picked up his rifle; he shot and killed the hound. Oh, but there inside the cabin was the baby safe and sound. When they found the back door open and two wolves lyin' still, They knew they'd made a grave mistake with the righteous blood they spilled. Now up on Echo Mountain you'll find a lonesome grave Marked with a handmade marble stone that reads: "God bless the brave." When daddy tells the story of the dog that saved my life, He always asks forgiveness and the tears still fill his eyes. Now the cries on Echo Mountain are a painful thing to hear. All the neighbors know the reason for the Johnsons' bitter tears. When a man don't use good judgment, it's the innocent who pay. Now the cries on Echo Mountain will haunt me to this day. When a man don't use good judgment, it's the innocent who pay. Now the cries on Echo Mountain will haunt me to this day. [Also recorded by Cedar Hill on "Stories" (2004) and by Dry Branch Fire Squad on "Echoes of the Mountain" (2009). [There are other songs with the same title.] |
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30 Jun 17 - 05:47 AM (#3863550) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Wolfhound / Beth Gelert...the Greyhound From: Georgiansilver The legend of Beddgelert |