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17 Mar 00 - 05:27 PM (#196931) Subject: fair and tender ladies From: GUEST,nic looking abc text thanks nic |
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17 Mar 00 - 07:50 PM (#196977) Subject: RE: Tune Req: fair and tender ladies From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca Nic, you can find it as a MIDI file here Previous Thread on Fair and Tender Ladies It also includes a link to the song with lyrics and the MIDI file. I thought there was another one, but I can't find it. |
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12 Aug 02 - 12:07 PM (#763871) Subject: RE: Tune Req: fair and tender ladies From: Kim C Does anyone know how old this song is? I thought I read somewhere it was late 19th century but now I can't seem to find anything. |
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12 Aug 02 - 12:21 PM (#763877) Subject: RE: Tune Req: fair and tender ladies From: Sorcha Weird---it's listed in the Alpha Index which returns no file found and none of the other searches turned it up. I thought Malcolm might have had some commentary posted somewhere, but if so, I can't find it. |
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12 Aug 02 - 12:43 PM (#763889) Subject: RE: Tune Req: fair and tender ladies From: Mary in Kentucky I posted some words in this thread. I'm almost sure it's in the DT somewhere though. |
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12 Aug 02 - 12:54 PM (#763893) Subject: RE: Tune Req: fair and tender ladies From: Willa This might be the other thread you wanted, George (Must learn how to do blickeys) Jimmy C Lyr Req: come all ye fair and tender ladies RE: Lyr Req: come all ye fair and tender ladies 10-Jul-01 |
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12 Aug 02 - 12:54 PM (#763894) Subject: RE: Tune Req: fair and tender ladies From: GUEST,MCP It's in the DT as Fair And Tender Ladies Mick |
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12 Aug 02 - 01:03 PM (#763898) Subject: RE: Tune Req: fair and tender ladies From: Kim C Right. But how old is it and where did it come from? |
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12 Aug 02 - 01:19 PM (#763905) Subject: RE: Tune Req: fair and tender ladies From: Sorcha Mick, how the devil did you find it? I couldn't get to it at all.... |
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12 Aug 02 - 01:32 PM (#763912) Subject: RE: Tune Req: fair and tender ladies From: Sorcha This appears to be a question for either Masato or Malcolm Douglas. I have no idea. |
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12 Aug 02 - 01:33 PM (#763914) Subject: RE: Tune Req: fair and tender ladies From: GUEST,MCP Sorcha - searched for "Fair And Tender Ladies" (quotes included) in the Digitrad and Forum Search box and up it popped! (I'd already checked my offline copy to see that it was in the DT). I think this problem has been noted for another song recently. Mick |
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12 Aug 02 - 01:37 PM (#763917) Subject: RE: Tune Req: fair and tender ladies From: Sorcha huh. I tried that too.......bugger all. The song is at Contemplator, but Lesley doesn't have any info for it. |
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12 Aug 02 - 01:51 PM (#763929) Subject: RE: Tune Req: fair and tender ladies From: GUEST,MCP The song has been widely collected in America. Sharp has 18 versions of it, but no notes. It was collected in Florida too. Cox (Folk Songs of the South as "Young Ladies") says that "it is also called "Little Sparrow" and states that "it is somehow related to "O Waly, Waly gin Love be bonny"", (Child 204 - Jamie Douglas) "printed in the early part of the eighteenth century, but even then regarded as old" How related looks moot to me. Cox relates verse 3 of the Scottish song to a verse in Fair and Tender Ladies, the (Scottish) verse being: O waly, waly! but love be bony I haven't time to compare them more fully just now, but I'll have a look later if I've got time. Mick |
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12 Aug 02 - 01:56 PM (#763931) Subject: RE: Tune Req: fair and tender ladies From: Malcolm Douglas It's number 451 in the Roud Folk Song Index, where quite a lot of examples are listed; all from the USA. The set in the DT names no specific source, but the note implies that it might be the Ritchie family version. 18 sets, noted between 1916 and 1918, appear in Sharp's English Folk-Songs from the Southern Appalachians; these may be the earliest found, but I don't have access to most of the American material, so can't be specific. Later 19th century would seem a reasonable guess for the song in more-or-less its present form, though the components are largely commonplaces ("floaters") and are likely to derive from older song(s), as also the tune(s). I think that Masato has more US material than I, and will probably be able to provide more specific information. |
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12 Aug 02 - 04:15 PM (#764002) Subject: RE: Tune Req: fair and tender ladies From: Malcolm Douglas The problem in locating the earlier discussion (beside the fact that it's not yet been indexed) would be due to the unwise use of an ampersand in the thread title: Lyr/Chords Req: Fair & Tender Ladies? Evidently the DT text is not the Ritchie family set, though very close to it. |
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12 Aug 02 - 08:18 PM (#764108) Subject: Lyr Add: LITTLE SPARROW (from Mike Yates) From: John Minear In "Far in the Mountains : Volumes 3 & 4 of Mike Yates' 1979-83 Appalachian Collection", to be found here, Dellie Norton sings an interesting version of this song, or at least a song related to "Fair and Tender Ladies". From the liner notes available at the above site:
"8. LITTLE SPARROW (Roud 451)
It's I wish I were some little sparrow,
But I ain't no little sparrow.
I'll go down to yonders river,
Roscoe Holcomb, the Kentucky banjo-player and singer, called this Willow Tree (Smithsonian Folkways SF CD 40104), whilst other Appalachian singers have used these verses as 'floaters', to add to songs such as Awake, Awake and The Silver Dagger. Another Kentucky version, this time by Morgan Sexton, was once available on his June Appal LP 0066." She sings this unaccompanied and it is quite powerful. The last two lines are particulary striking. |
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12 Aug 02 - 09:55 PM (#764135) Subject: Lyr Add: YOUNG LADIES and FAIR AND TENDER LADIES From: Stewie Here are the 2 Cox texts referenced above by MCP - John Harrington Cox 'Folk-Songs of the South' Pelican Publishing Company 1998 reprint of 1925 edition - and the text in Alan Lomax's 'Folk Songs of North America'.
Duncan Emrich ['American Folk Poetry: An Anthology' Little, Brown and Co, Boston 1974, p76] gives a ballad under the 'Come All Ye Fair and Tender Ladies' title that is related more to parental interference ballads such as 'Silver Dagger', 'Silk Merchant's Daughter' etc. It is a bloody little piece collected by Harvey H. Fuson from Lizzie Dills and printed in his 'Ballads of the Kentucky Highlands' 1931, p71. Emrich also references Laws G21. The boy's parents prevent him courting a girl beneath his station and the young girl stabs herself. The final 2 stanzas give the flavour of the piece:
She walled her dying eyes up toward him --Stewie. |
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12 Aug 02 - 11:08 PM (#764166) Subject: Lyr Add: WILLOW TREE From: Stewie As far as I can decipher it, the Holcomb text referred to above by Turtle Old Man is as follows. In the third line of the first stanza, I hear 'light', but it could be 'lie'. The words in brackets in the first line of the 'willow' stanza are my best guess at what he is singing:
WILLOW TREE In his note to 'Willow Tree', John Cohen says Dillard Chandler sang the 'willow' stanza in 'Awake, Awake' on his Folkways album 'Old Love Songs and Ballads'. --Stewie. |
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12 Aug 02 - 11:15 PM (#764170) Subject: Lyr Add: WARNING From: masato sakurai As Malcolm says above, "Later 19th century would seem a reasonable guess". The song as it it today was probably first printed by Sharp, but seems to be older. The second version (text only) in Beldon, Ballads and Songs Collected by the Misssouri Folk-Lore Society (1940) is titled "Warning", which is from "C.H. Williams, Bollinger County, 1906, who says: 'I was very young when I learned this and don't remember who I heard sing it first.'" (p. 478):
WARNING
Come all ye fair and tender ladies,
Once I thought I had a lover,
I wish I were some little sparrow,
All in his breast I would flutter
But as it it, I'm no sparrow,
There're two versions in Alton C. Morris, Folksongs of Florida (1950, 1978, pp. 366-368). One is "Fair and Tender Ladies" (with music): "Recorded from the singing of Mrs. C.S. McClellan, High Springs, who learned the song from her mother [age or birth not given], a native Floridian who spent most of her life in the vicinity of Lawtey." The other is "Come All You Fair and Pretty Ladies": "Recorded from the singing of Mrs. G.A. Griffin, Newberry, who learned the song from her father, Mr. John R. Hart [age or birth not given], Dooly County, Georgia, when she was a young girl living near Adel, Georgia."
On the origin, The Traditional Ballad Index: Fair and Tender Ladies isn't of much help. ~Masato
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13 Aug 02 - 10:09 AM (#764376) Subject: RE: Tune Req: fair and tender ladies From: Kim C Thanks Y'all. :-) |
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13 Aug 02 - 10:32 AM (#764386) Subject: Lyr Add: COME ALL YOU FAIR AND TENDER LADIES From: GUEST,MCP Since Stewie and Masato went to the trouble of writing out the other texts, the least I can do is put up the Sharp versions. Here are all the versions from English Folk Songs from the Southern Appalachians which have more than the tune and 1 verse. When I have time, I'll put up the abc for all the 18 tunes in the next few days. Mick COME ALL YOU FAIR AND TENDER LADIES SHARP EFFSSA - VERSION A (Mrs. Rosie Hensley, Carmen, N.C., Aug 8, 1916) O don't you remember on yon green mountain, Where I and you first fell in love, Where the little birds was sweetly singing And even, too, the little doves? Come all ye fair and tender ladies, Be careful how you court young men; They're like a star of a summer's morning, They'll first appear and then they're gone. They'll tell to you some pleasing story, They'll declare to you they are your own; Straightway they'll go and court some other And leave you here in tears to mourn. I wish I were a little swallow And I had wings and I could fly; Straight after my true love I would follow, When they'd be talking I'd be by. But I am no little swallow, I have no wings, nor I can't fly, And after my true love I can't follow, And when they're talking I'll set and cry. ..... ..... There's many a dark and rainy morning Turns out to be a pretty day. SHARP EFFSSA - VERSION B (two girls, Knott Co., Ky., nd) Come all you young and tender ladies, Take warning how you court young men. They're like a bright star in a cloudy morning; They'll first appear and then they're gone. They'll tell to you some lovely story And tell you their love is true, Straightway to some other girl and court her, And that's the love they have for you. I wish I were a little sparrow, Had sparrow's wings and I could fly; I would fly away to my false true-love, And while he would talk I would deny. But I am not a little sparrow, Got no wings, nor I can't fly; I will sit right down in grief and sorrow And try to pass my troubles by. If I had knowed before I courted That love had been so hard to win, I'd locked my heart with the keys of golden, And pinned it down with a silver pin. SHARP EFFSSA - VERSION C (Mrs. Press Blankenship, Flag Pond, Tenn., Sept 1, 1916) Come all you fair and tender ladies, Be careful how you court young men. They're like a star of a summer's morning, They first appear and then they're gone. They'll tell to you some pleasing story, Declare to you they love you well, Then go away and court them another, And that's the love they have for you. I once did meet a fair true lover, A true one, too, I took him to be; And then he went away and found him another, And that's the love he had for me. O that I were a pretty little swallow, Or had I wings that I could fly, Then away after my true love I'd follow, I'd light upon his breast and flutter And tell him of deceiving me. I hope there is a day a-coming When love shall put an end to me. I hope there is a place of torment To secure my love for deceiving me. SHARP EFFSSA - VERSION F (Mrs. Effie Mitchell,Burnsville, N.C., Sept 12, 1918) Come all you fair and tender ladies, Be careful how you court young men; They're like bright stars of a summer morning, They'll first appear and then be gone. They'll tell to you some loving story, They'll declare their love is true; Straightway they'll go and court some other, And that's the love they have for you. If I had known before I courted That love had been so hard on me, I'd have fastened my heart in golden boxes, And have locked it up with a silver pin. I wish I was some little sparrow, And had wings, could fly so high; I'd fly away to my false true lover, And when he'd talk I would be nigh. But as it is, I am no sparrow, Neither have I wings to fly. I'd sit down here in grief and sorrow, Weep and pass my troubles by. SHARP EFFSSA - VERSION H (Mrs. Mollie Broghton,Barbourville, Knox Co., Ky., Aug 25, 1917) Come all ye fair and tender ladies, Take warning how you court young men; They're like a bright star on a Sunday morning, They first appear and it's gone again. If I was a little sparrow, And I had wings and could fly high, Always I'd go to my false lover, And when he'd talk I would be by. I'd ask him who he's going to flatter, And what poor girl he's going to see; And on his breast I would flutter With my tender little wings. But as it is I ain't no sparrow, I have no wings and can't fly high; I'll stay at home in grief and sorrow; I'll try to find some way to die. SHARP EFFSSA - VERSION I (Mr. Macdonald Franklin, Berea, Madison Co, Ky., May 26, 1917) Come all ye fair and tender ladies, Take warning how that you love young men; They're like bright stars of a summer's morning. They'll first appear and then they're gone. They'll tell to you some loving story And make you think they love you true; Straightway they'll go and court some other. That is the love they have for you. I wish I never had a-courted. If I'd a-known that love was hard to end, I'd lock my heart in a box of golden And fasten it up with a silver chain. I wish I were a little sparrow, Or some of those that fly so high. I'd fly away to my false true lover, And when he would talk I would be nigh. But as it is I am no sparrow, Nor none of those that fly so high; I sit down here in grief and sorrow, Try and pass all those my troubles by. I hope there's a time a-coming When my love I'm sure to see. I hope there is a place of torment To punish my love for denying me.
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13 Aug 02 - 10:35 AM (#764388) Subject: RE: Tune Req: fair and tender ladies From: GUEST,MCP Sorry - didn't mean to omit Turtle Old Man from the list of version contributors above. Mick |
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13 Aug 02 - 10:51 AM (#764400) Subject: Lyr Add: LITTLE SPARROW From: John Minear Morgan Sexton's version of "LITTLE SPARROW", from his June Appal recording MORGAN SEXTON - SHADY GROVE (JA00661) is as follows:
I wish I was a little sparrow
O if I was some little sparrow
There is a day a day a comin
If I knew him before I courted him Morgan Sexton was born in 1911 on Long Branch Hollow near Linefork, in southeastern Kentucky. He died on January 30th, 1992.
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17 Aug 02 - 10:15 AM (#766967) Subject: RE: Tune Req: fair and tender ladies From: John Minear Mellinger Henry prints an interesting version of this song in his FOLK-SONGS FROM THE SOUTHERN HIGHLANDS, pp. 260-261.
Come roll 'round your wheel of fortune:
Once I had a gay, young lover;
I must confess I dearly love him:
I never knew he was going to leave me
Had I the wings of a little sparrow,
Had I the wings of a little swallow,
Now, all you girls, take warning; |
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17 Aug 02 - 05:46 PM (#767162) Subject: RE: Tune Req: fair and tender ladies From: kytrad (Jean Ritchie) Ritchie Family version recorded on my first album, for Elektra in 1950 or '51, entitled, "O Love is Teasin." (EKLP2).These are the lyrics given in the database, followed by the note, "recorded by Edna Ritchie, Jean Ritchie." Our melody is different, learned from the old folks, not easy to write down. It is also included on the more recent "Mountain Born" album, available from website (www.jeanritchie.com) |
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26 Nov 02 - 08:25 PM (#835623) Subject: Lyr Add: YOUNG LADIES From: harpgirl Here is a variant from the AP Hudson, Folksongs of Mississippi and their background. Chapel Hill, The University of North Carolina Press, 1936. Very close to the Missouri version: It is titled "Young Ladies" and is communicated by Mrs. G.V.Easley, Tula. Compare Cox, No 140;Campbell and Sharp, No 65; Wyman and Brockway, p. 55. Come all you fair and tender ladies, Take warning how you love young men; They appear like a star in the summer morning, First appear and then are gone again. They'll tell to you some loving story, Declare to you their love is true, And away they'll go courting some other; That's the love that they have for you. Once I thought I had a true love; Indeed, I thought he'd be my on; But now he's gone to courting some other And left me here to weep and moan. I wish I was a little sparrow With tender wings that I might fly, And when he talked of love to another Then I would be close by. I'd ask him who he meant to flatter, If it was me he would desire; All on his bosom I would flutter With my little bended wing. But as I am no little sparrow, neither wings nor can I fly, I'll sit down and grieve in sorrow, Sin and pass my troubles by. |
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27 Nov 02 - 04:52 PM (#835990) Subject: RE: Tune Req: fair and tender ladies From: kytrad (Jean Ritchie) Re-reading this thread, I find it interesting that none of the variants given here contain what to me is the last verse, sort of a summing-up stanza: Young man, ne'er cast your eye on beauty, For beauty is a thing that will decay- I've seen many a fair and bright sunny morning Turn into a dark and deludinous day. Some folks around home didn't like this ending and changed the verse's poetry to, "I've seen many dark and stormy morning turn into a bright sunshiny day." Which does not illustrate the meaning in the FIRST two lines, but I guess no one was thinking of that! Being a literate family, we stayed with the "dark and deludinous" line. |
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28 Nov 02 - 01:26 AM (#836246) Subject: RE: Tune Req: fair and tender ladies From: Coyote Breath Oh love is handsome and love is charming And love's a treasure when first it's new But love grows cold as love grows older And quickly fades like morning dew. Do you remember out days of courting When you laid your head all on my breast You could make me believe by the moving of your arms That the sun rose in the West. I can't recall where I heard those two verses but I love the poetry of them, they might be from some Ozark variant. I have found that there are a few songs from here in the Ozarks which have different words and sometimes different tunes than songs with the same titles from the Cumberland plateau or Apalachia. Kytrad's tune is the one I'm familiar with. My mother knew of another tune which she claimed was from Cornwall (where her family was from) and of course I can't recall it right now but promise to try to post it when I do remember. CB |
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28 Nov 02 - 01:31 PM (#836633) Subject: RE: Tune Req: fair and tender ladies From: kytrad (Jean Ritchie) CB- Those two verses may be "floating" ones- I know that the first one, "O love is handsome..." is generally the last verse of "Waly, Waly," aka, "The Water is Wide." The second verse you gave is also in a few songs, but I never heard it as part of, Come All Ye Fair and Tender Ladies." |
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28 Nov 02 - 02:17 PM (#836656) Subject: RE: Tune Req: fair and tender ladies From: Willa I have the second of CB's verses in the lyrics I sing, but not the final one Kytrad quotes (I'll add it now!). I copied this down in the 70's and the source(which I did not note)simply said U.S.A. I was planning to sing this tonight. |
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17 Nov 08 - 10:09 PM (#2496343) Subject: RE: Tune Req: fair and tender ladies From: Genie Related song, but variant lyrics and tune: Little Sparrow |
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01 Apr 15 - 08:02 PM (#3699000) Subject: RE: Req: fair and tender ladies / Little Sparrow From: Janie This was posted by another Mudcatter to a Facebook group. Live video of the Carter Family - judging from the hairstyles and dress, some time in the early 60's. Same song but labeled Carter Family Like Morning Dew |
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01 Apr 15 - 08:21 PM (#3699003) Subject: RE: Req: fair and tender ladies / Little Sparrow From: GUEST,# To the OP: here's what you requested. http://abcnotation.com/tunePage?a=www.joe-offer.com/folkinfo/songs/abc/121/0000 |
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01 Apr 15 - 08:45 PM (#3699007) Subject: RE: Req: fair and tender ladies / Little Sparrow From: GUEST,Mrr On Top Of Old Smokey, too, no? |
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06 Mar 17 - 01:58 PM (#3843228) Subject: RE: Origins: Fair and Tender Ladies / Little Sparrow From: Richie Hi, I'm working on a study of "love is Teasing" which is from the same family as "Young Ladies/Little Sparrow". And example of the "Love is Teasing" stanza in Young Ladies from Cox (text above): Love is handsome, love is charming, Love is beauty while it's new; Love grows older, love grows colder, Fades away like morning dew. This stanza appears in "Waly Waly," and in the Motherwell version of Child 204, Jamie Douglas. The older ancestry of both songs (Love is Teasing/Young Ladies) is founded on four main broadsides; the first, "Arthur's Seat," circa 1700 is closely tied with Waly, Waly; the second, "Wheel of Fortune" dates back to the early 1700s; the third "Unfortunate Swain" is dated circa 1750, and the last "I'm Often Drunk and Seldom Sober," is a broadside dated circa 1800. In the US "Unfortunate Swain" stanzas are not found. The main antecedents are "Wheel of Fortune" see Henry's version E- which is based on it, and stanzas from "I'm Often Drunk" but the main antecedent is "Wheel of Fortune". The Warning stanza is the last stanza in Love is Pleasing: Now, all young maids by me take warning, And not by false men be led astray For they are like a star on a foggy morning When they ought to be here they are far away. It's the first and identifying stanza for Young Ladies. Here's the text of the broadside Wheel of Fortune, which was sung in the UK in the early 1700s: "Wheel of Fortune," a broadside no imprint or date at Bodleian: http://ballads.bodleian.ox.ac.uk/static/images/sheets/20000/19042.gif It was sung in early 1700s by bass singer Richard Leveridge (1670-1758) at the Theatre Royal In Lincolns Inn Fields probably between 1714 and 1750. This is the fundamental antecedent of Love is Teasing in the 1900s and later. When I was young I was much beloved By all the young men in the country; When I was blooming all in my blossom, A false young lover deceived me. He has tried his whole endeavor, He has tried all his power and skill, He has spoiled all my good behaviour, He has broken my fortune against my will. I did not think he was going to leave me, Till the next morning when he came in; Then he sat down and began a-talking, Then all my sorrows did begin. I left my father, I left my mother; I left my sister and brothers too; And all my friends and old aquaintance, I left them all to go with you. But turn you round, you wheel of fortune, It's turn you round and smile on me; For young men's words they are quite uncertain, Which sad experience teaches me. If I had known before I had courted, That love had been so ill to win, I wad locked my heart in a chest of gold, And pon'd it with a silver pin. Then fare-ye-weel, ye false-hearted young man, It's fare-ye-weel, since we must part; If you are the man that has broke my fortune, You're not the man that shall break my heart. Of all the flowers that grow in the garden, Be sure you pull the rose and thyme, For all others are quite out of fashion, A false young man he has stole my thyme. But time will soon put an end to all things, And love will soon put an end to me; But surely there is a place of torment, To punish my lover for slighting me. Richie |
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06 Mar 17 - 03:34 PM (#3843266) Subject: RE: Origins: Fair and Tender Ladies / Little Sparrow From: Richie Hi, The identifying 'warning' stanza of "Young Ladies" and the "Love is handsome" stanza are both found in UK versions of "love is Teasing" in the early 1900s. If we look at Morgan Sexton's version posted in this thread: I wish I was a little sparrow And I had wings and I could fly I would fly away to a false-hearted lover And there I'd stay until I died. O if I was some little sparrow And I had no wings and could not fly I would set down in some grieving sorrow Where you would laugh and I would cry. There is a day a day a comin We shall not part or I shall see I hope there is a place in the middle of torment For that man is deceiving me. If I knew him before I courted him There is love hard to win I would lock my heart in a box of golden I would pin it down there with a silver pin. The last two stanzas are from Wheel of Fortune. The other stanza or stanzas common in "Young Ladies" is the "I wish I was a little sparrow" stanza. This is a common floater found in many songs but particularly the maid in sorrow abandoned by a false love songs-- such as the Died for Love songs. Here's one example from Some Songs Traditional in the United States; Tolman 1916: Why a faithless lover should be called a "true love," and why the devoted maiden should wish to fly away to him, are not made clear. I. I wish I was a little sparrow; I'd fly away from grief and sorrow; I'd fly away like a turtle dove; I'd fly away to my own true love. 2. 'Twas but last night he said to me: "I'll take you o'er the dark blue sea." But now he's gone, and left me alone, A single maid without a home. 3. Oh grief, oh grief! I'll tell you why: Because she has more gold than I; He takes that other girl on his knee, And tells her what he don't tell me. 4. I wish, I wish, but all in vain, That my true love would come back again. But then I know that will never be, Till the green, green grass grows over me. The last two stanzas are from Died For Love. The swallow stanza is part of a group of songs I call Pitman's Love Song- each stanza begins: I wish I were a. . . In Rambling Boy there are two stanzas: "I wish I was a fly," and, I wish I were a black-bird or thrush, Singing my notes from bush to bush; That all the world might plainly fee, I lov'd a man, and he lov'd not me. "I wish I was a Little Sparrow" is found in many love lost songs in the Appalachians. No point in giving more examples. At least two "Young Ladies" versions are made up of three stanzas like Dellie Norton's or Holcomb's: It's I wish I were some little sparrow, I had wings and I could fly. I'd fly away to my own true lover And when she courted I'd be by. But I ain't no little sparrow. I have no wings nor I cain't fly. So set right here in grief and sorrow, I'll set right here until I die. I'll go down to yonders river, I'll spend my months, my weeks, my years. I'd eat nothing but green willow And I'd drink nothing but my tears. In this case the last stanza is taken from US version's of Silver Dagger/O Katie Dear/Drowsy Sleeper. There a many variables- I believe the dialogue created in the second "swallow" stanza, But as I am no little sparrow, neither wings nor can I fly, is a local adaptation. Richie |
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13 Mar 17 - 09:43 PM (#3844761) Subject: RE: Origins: Fair and Tender Ladies / Little Sparrow From: Richie Hi, I started working on "Fair and Tender Maidens" this morning and today, after my query, Steve Gardham discovered the main antecedent, "The Lady's Address to the Fair Maidens," in his collection. The song, once thought to be of US origin, is now derived from a broadside printed by Angus of Newcastle c.1800. Not only does it have the identifying stanza but stanza 7 has the "sparrow" (swallow) stanza followed by a different "sparrow" (swallow) stanza to conclude the broadside. Here's the text, capitalization and spelling kept as the original: "The Lady's Address to the Fair Maidens" 1. Come hither, all you pretty maidens, Take Warning how you love a Man, Like a bright star in a Summer's Morning When day appears they are gone. 2. They'll talk and tell you pretty stories, They'll vow and swear they love you true, But it is all to blast your Glory That's all the love they have for you. 3. It's I myself had once a Sweetheart, He swore he lov'd me as his Life; But that was only his false intention, Ne'er to make me his lawful wife. 4. I was in his Eye a precious Jewel, so tender was his love for me, He swore his heart did burn like fuel Whenever he my face did see. 5. But now, alas! that is all over, He little thinks of what us past; In Cupid's chains we were bound together, There to remain while life did last. 6. May he heaven's bless that happy woman, Who does enjoy my jewel bright; His Wit and Beauty are more than common, On him I place my chief Delight. 7. I wish I was a pretty swallow, That nimbly in the Air could fly, Then my false-hearted love I'd follow, Whene'er he talk'd I would lie by. 8. Whene'er he talk'd then I would flutter, All on his Breast with my tender Wings, And ask him who it was that flatter'd, And told so many deluding Things. There are still stanzas from Wheel of Fortune and other sources, but this is the main antecedent. Richie |
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15 Mar 17 - 09:07 PM (#3845157) Subject: RE: Origins: Fair and Tender Ladies / Little Sparrow From: Richie Hi, I apologize for this rather long post of US headnotes of my study of "Young Ladies." Several versions in this thread are analyzed. It may be viewed on my website which eventually will have extant versions: http://www.bluegrassmessengers.com/us--canada-versions-7ua-young-ladies-.aspx If my site's not around hopefully Mudcat will be. So here it is (as they say) for all posterior :) Footnotes are found at the end too. Richie * * * * [The American versions differ from their British counterparts. "Swallow" in most cases has become "sparrow." Although the two core stanzas[1] (the identifying stanza, "Come all ye fair" and the "swallow/sparrow" stanza) are the same, the secondary stanzas are different: in North America some of the secondary stanzas are borrowed from the Wheel of Fortune broadside, other British broadsides and the traditional Love is Teasing and Died for Love songs. Other secondary stanzas are homemade adaptations of the "maid abandoned by a false lover" type which resemble their British counterparts but are different. The US "sparrow" stanzas, instead of the once British "swallow" stanzas, feature a dialogue: the first sparrow stanza begins: "If I were a little sparrow" while the second stanza answers, "But I'm not a little sparrow." This dialogue is not found in the second sparrow stanza of the British antecedent[2] which begins: Whene'er he talk'd then I would flutter, All on his Breast with my tender Wings, This British love song had almost completely disappeared from the UK by the 1900s with only two traditional variants found in Scotland by Gavin Grieg about 1908. Since it was very popular in Appalachia at that time[3] it may be assumed that in the 1700s and early 1800s it was brought over to the Virginia Colony[4] and disseminated westward into the Southern Mountains from Virginia by the early English, Irish and Scottish settlers. The primary British antecedent is "The Lady's Address to the Fair Maidens" a broadside printed in Newcastle, London and probably Scotland[5] in the later part of the 1700s. The earliest record is c. 1760 where it is found in "The Marybone concert: Being a choice collection of songs" which was "Printed and sold in Aldermary Church Yard, Bow Lane, London." Here are the core stanzas from "The Lady's Address": 1. Come hither, all you pretty maidens, Take Warning how you love a Man, Like a bright star in a Summer's Morning When day appears they are gone. 7. I wish I was a pretty swallow, That nimbly in the Air could fly, Then my false-hearted love I'd follow, Whene'er he talk'd I would lie by. Stanza 1 is the identifying stanza or "warning" stanza- the maiden who has been abandoned by a false love is warning other maidens about the capricious nature of men. In some versions only the swallow/sparrow stanzas are given and stanza 7 is the second identifying stanza. The whole broadside is given below in the Appendix, Item 1. Besides the two core stanzas are these two secondary stanzas: 2. They'll talk and tell you pretty stories, They'll vow and swear they love you true, But it is all to blast your Glory That's all the love they have for you. 8. Whene'er he talk'd then I would flutter, All on his Breast with my tender Wings, And ask him who it was that flatter'd, And told so many deluding Things. Stanzas two is fairly common (reworded) and eight is occasionally found but also reworded. Other US stanzas come from the second antecedent, The Wheel of Fortune a British broadside dating c. 1830 but probably much older. Here are the relevant stanzas from "Wheel" sometimes found in "Young Ladies"-- the entire text is found in Appendix, Item 2. 3. I did not think he was going to leave me, Till the next morning when he came in; Then he sat down and began a-talking, Then all my sorrows did begin. 6 But turn you round, you wheel of fortune, It's turn you round and smile on me; For young men's words they are quite uncertain, Which sad experience teaches me. 7. If I had known before I had courted, That love had been so ill to win, I wad locked my heart in a chest of gold, And pon'd it with a silver pin. 10. But time will soon put an end to all things, And love will soon put an end to me; But surely there is a place of torment, To punish my lover for slighting me. Several American versions of Young Ladies have as many as two stanzas borrowed from "Wheel of Fortune." Mellinger Henry collected a version of "Young Ladies," his E version, that clearly shows "Wheel" as the secondary antecedent. Here's the text: "Come, Roll 'round the Wheel of Fortune." The song was recorded near Cumberland Gap, Tennessee, by Glada Gully, a student in Lincoln Memorial University. 1. Come, roll 'round your wheel of fortune, Come, roll around once more for me; A young man's love is quite uncertain, My own experience teaches me. 2. Once I had a gay, young lover, He was my joy; he was my pride; But now he's going with another, He's sitting by another's side. 3. 1 must confess I dearly love him; I kept the secret in my breast; I never knew an ill about him Until I learned to love him best. 4. I never knew he was going to leave me Until one night when he came in; He sat down by me and told me, 'Twas when my trouble first began. 5. Had I the wings of a little sparrow, I wouldn't pine nor would I die, But I would follow my false-hearted lover And tell him where he told a lie. 6. Had I the wings of a little swallow, Or had I the wings of a turtle dove, I'd fly away from this world of sorrow Into some land of light and love. 7. Now, all you girls, take warning; Be careful how you love young men, For they are like the stars of morning, As soon as daylight they are gone Henry's version begins with the "Wheel" identifying stanza, rarely found in tradition. Henry's stanza 4 is also directly from "Wheel" showing it is the secondary antecedent of "Young Ladies. The core stanzas 5 and 8 are from the main antecedent, ""The Lady's Address." Henry's second "sparrow" stanza (which curiously is "swallow") is the secondary swallow stanza found in the British broadside The Silver Pin[6]: I wish I was a little swallow; And my true love a turtle dove; Then I would fly from this land of sorrow; And rest upon some land of love. These two baffling lines were collected by Mrs. Sutton from an informant in the NC mountains, appearing at the end of the Brown Collection's version C: 6 Of all the herbs that grow in the garden Be sure to get the rue and thyme. . . . The Brown editor suggested the lines were from the "Seeds of Love[7]" when they were. . . just part of stanza 9 of Wheel of Fortune: 9. Of all the flowers that grow in the garden, Be sure you pull the rose and thyme, This demonstrates the nature of 'Young Ladies," a love song assembled with floating stanzas from various British broadsides and floating traditional song stanzas from the related "Love is Teasing" (the Waly, Waly family[8]) also with the warning stanza and from the Died for Love songs with the theme of the "maid of sorrow abandoned by her false lover." A second example that uses two stanzas of "Wheel" was sung by traditional singer Morgan Sexton who was born in 1911 on Long Branch Hollow near Linefork, in southeastern Kentucky and died there on January 30th, 1992. His version of "Little Sparrow," from his June Appal recording "Morgan Sexton- Shady Grove (JA00661)" is as follows[9]: Little Sparrow 1. I wish I was a little sparrow And I had wings and I could fly I would fly away to a false-hearted lover And there I'd stay until I died. 2. O if I was some little sparrow And I had no wings and could not fly I would set down in some grieving sorrow Where you would laugh and I would cry. 3. There is a day a day a comin', We shall not part or I shall see I hope there is a place in the middle of torment For that man is deceiving me. 4. If I knew him before I courted him There is love hard to win I would lock my heart in a box of golden I would pin it down there with a silver pin. Stanzas 1 and 2 are the "sparrow" stanzas (stanza 2 is corrupt) while Sexton's last two stanzas are 7 and 10 of Wheel of Fortune. In both of these examples two stanzas came from Wheel of Fortune. The last stanza is also found in the broadside "Silver Pin." Since swallow is used in the British antecedent, versions in the US that have "swallow" instead of being changed to "sparrow," are older and more archaic. One such version, Sharp A, was sung Mrs. Rosie Hensley, Carmen, N.C., on August 8, 1916: I wish I were a little swallow And I had wings and I could fly; Straight after my true love I would follow, When they'd be talking I'd be by. Stanza two of the c.1760 antecedent "The Lady's Address" is also common in the Appalachian version as stanza 2, Here's Sharp F sung by Mrs. Effie Mitchell of Burnsville, N.C.: 2. They'll tell to you some loving story And make you think they love you true; Straightway they'll go and court some other, That is the love they have for you. Now here's stanza 2 of "The Lady's Address": 2. They'll talk and tell you pretty stories, They'll vow and swear they love you true, But it is all to blast your Glory That's all the love they have for you. Invariably in the US versions the third line is changed, which is a good thing, since the broadside line three is weak and poorly written. Some of the inexplicable lines and words found in US versions can be traced back to the "Lady's Address" broadside. The version collected by Sharp in Tennessee from Liddie Blankenship in 1916 has these lines: I'd light on his breast and flutter, And tell him of deceiving me. while the broadside has: Whene'er he talk'd then I would flutter, All on his Breast with my tender Wings, Not identical but after two hundred years some interpolation can be expected. Or, consider this line from Jean Ritchie who insists this is the proper ending stanza which has this last line[10]: "Turn into a dark and deludinous day." Now let's compare that to the broadside's ending: "And told so many deluding Things." Not much of a match but there's a good chance we know from whence "deludinous" came. And, "deludinous" has my vote for the folk lyric adjective of the year! The Died for Love stanzas are not common, although some some US stanzas seem to be re-written from Died for Love stanzas. The difference between the first "Alehouse" stanza of c.1775 and Stanza 2 of "Young Ladies" is largely one of semantics: her false-lover has taken another lover and that's "a grief to me"/"all that he cares for me." Here's one Died for Love example from Some Songs Traditional in the United States, an article by Tolman published in a 1916 JAF. He comments: "Why a faithless lover should be called a "true love," and why the devoted maiden should wish to fly away to him, are not made clear." I. I wish I was a little sparrow; I'd fly away from grief and sorrow; I'd fly away like a turtle dove; I'd fly away to my own true love. 2. 'Twas but last night he said to me: "I'll take you o'er the dark blue sea." But now he's gone, and left me alone, A single maid without a home. 3. Oh grief, oh grief! I'll tell you why: Because she has more gold than I; He takes that other girl on his knee, And tells her what he don't tell me. 4. I wish, I wish, but all in vain, That my true love would come back again. But then I know that will never be, Till the green, green grass grows over me. The first stanza can be recognized as found in the "swallow" variant "The Silver Pin." The second floating stanza is found in "Must I Go Bound?" from Newfoundland: Last night my lover promised me That he would take me across the deep blue sea. But now he's gone an' left me alone, I'm an orphan girl without any home. The last two stanzas are from Died For Love and are rarely found in their original form in the US as they were presented by Tolman. Only one version collected in the 1930s by Amos Abrams in NC resembles this version[11]. A different traditional English stanza found in 'Young Ladies" is the ancient "Love is Teasing" stanza[12]. This example is from Cox A, collected in West Virginia about 1916: 8 Love is handsome, love is charming, Love is beauty while it's new; Love grows older, love grows colder, Fades away like morning dew[13]. In addition to theses many sources that make up "Young Ladies" are: 1. stanzas from US versions of Awake Awake (Drowsy Sleeper, Brown D has the "sparrow" stanzas) 2. stanzas from a different song titled The False Young Man (The False True Lover), Roud 419. In the first case here's one of several similar Madison County, NC versions: LITTLE SPARROW[14]- as sung by Dellie Norton at her home in Sodom Laurel, Madison County, NC. in 1980 It's I wish I were some little sparrow, I had wings and I could fly. I'd fly away to my own true lover And when she courted I'd be by. But I ain't no little sparrow. I have no wings nor I cain't fly. So set right here in grief and sorrow, I'll set right here until I die. I'll go down to yonders river, I'll spend my months, my weeks, my years. I'd eat nothing but green willow And I'd drink nothing but my tears. The last stanza is taken from US versions of "Awake Awake." The Brown Collection's version D of Drowsy Sleeper has the two "sparrow" stanzas at the end[15]. In the second case involving stanzas of the False Young Man (Roud 419) is a version recorded by Pete Seeger on his Topic EP Pete and Five Strings, 1958: COME ALL YE FAIR AND TENDER LADIES Come all ye fair and tender ladies Take warning how you court young men They're like the stars of a summer's morning First they appear, and then they're gone If I had known before I courted I never would have courted none I'd'a locked my heart in a box of golden And fastened it up with a silver pin I wish I was a little swallow And I had wings and I could fly I'd fly away to my false true lover And when he'd speak, I would deny But I am not a little swallow I have no wings, neither can I fly So I'll sit down and weep in sorrow And try to pass my troubles by O don't you remember our days of courtin' When your head lay upon my breast, You could make me believe by the fallin' of your arm That the sun rose in the west. The last stanza is from False Young Man, Roud 419, a song I learned indirectly[16] from Lily Mae Ledford with a different title called, "White Oak Mountain." These are some of the variable stanzas found in 'Young Ladies," one of the most endearing British love songs of the Appalachians. It is a complex song made up of floating stanzas from two main British antecedent broadsides, several related broadsides, the traditional "Love is Teasing" and "Died for Love" ballads as well as stanzas from other floating love songs and ballads. R. Matteson 2017] _______________________________________________ Footnotes: 1. In this case the core stanzas and identifying stanza are the same. The "sparrow" stanza is the secondary identifying stanza. 2. The primary British antecedent is "The Lady's Address to the Fair Maidens" a broadside printed in Newcastle and London. 3. I haven't counted the number of versions Sharp collected in Appalachia between 1916 and 1918 but it look like there are over 30 versions published and in his MSS. 4. Although the Virginia Colony refers to pre-Revolutionary War Virginia (before 1776), the same area of the James River basin continued to be an area of British immigration after the War. 5. Since two traditional versions were collected in Scotland around 1907 a Scottish print of "The Lady's Address" is likely. 6. "The Silver Pin or the False-Hearted Young Girl" printed by Pitts, London is dated circa 1820, a different ballad with variation on "sparrow (swallow)" stanza. Has secondary variation of identifying stanza and has "silver pin" stanza. 7. I'm not implying that this text is not related to "Seeds of Love," in fact the whole stanza is. I'm implying that the source is Wheel of Fortune stanza 9: Of all the flowers that grow in the garden, Be sure you pull the rose and thyme, For all others are quite out of fashion, A false young man he has stole my thyme. 8. Although Waly, Waly dates back to c. 1726, the Love is Teasing stanza is older. The modified "Love is Teasing" stanza found in Waly, Waly is the connection with "Young Ladies" that Cox mentioned in 1925. It's found in Cox A, stanza 8. 9. The text was posted on Mudcat forum and I've not checked it- I assume it's correct. 10. Ritchie writes on Mudcat Forum in November 2002: I find it interesting that none of the variants given here contain what to me is the last verse, sort of a summing-up stanza: Young man, ne'er cast your eye on beauty, For beauty is a thing that will decay- I've seen many a fair and bright sunny morning Turn into a dark and deludinous day. 11. From Brown Collection, version F. 'A Wish.' From W. Amos Abrams of Boone. 12. Child dated this pre-1620 but there is evidence that it dates back to the first half of the 1500s. 13. Stanza 8 is from "Young Ladies," communicated by Mr. J. H. Shaffer, Newburg, Preston County, who obtained it from Mrs. A. R. Fike, Terra Alta-- Version A from Cox, "Folk Songs of the South" 1925. 14. Collected by Mike Yates and it appears on his Far in the Mountains CDs. 15. It ends with two stanzas from 'Little Sparrow': 'I wish I was a little sparrow, One of them that could fly so high. I'd fly and sit on my true love's dwelling, And when she talked I'd be close by. 'Neither am I a little sparrow And neither do I have wings to fly; So I'll sit down and weep in sorrow, I'll sing and pass my troubles by.' 16. As I recall I learned it from Cari Norris who was Lily Mae's granddaughter. It's possible it came from a recording- I still remember the song- or some of it :) |
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16 Mar 17 - 03:27 AM (#3845179) Subject: RE: Origins: Fair and Tender Ladies / Little Sparrow From: Steve Gardham Wow, Richie, you do move fast! |
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07 Mar 21 - 10:14 AM (#4096483) Subject: RE: Origins: Fair and Tender Ladies / Little Sparrow From: GUEST,madeleine A beautiful version by Red Tail Ring Artist: Red Tail Ring Song: Come all Ye Fair & Tender Ladies Album: Fall Away Blues Come all ye fair and tender ladies Take warning how you court young men They’re like the stars on a summer’s morning First they appear and then they’re gone My father is a handsome devil He wears a chain 5 miles long On every link a heart does dangle Of another maid he’s loved and dropped If I had known before I courted I never would have courted none No I’d have locked my heart in a box of golden And fastened it up with a silver pin I wish I were a little sparrow And I had wings and I could fly I’d fly away to my own false lover And when he’s talkin' I’d draw nigh But I am not a little sparrow I have no wings nor can I fly So I’ll sit right here and weep in sorrow And try to pass my troubles by |
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17 Mar 22 - 03:36 PM (#4138727) Subject: Origins: Fair and Tender Ladies From: Lighter From the Atlanta Daily New Era, May 31, 1868, this is the earliest text I've found. "Cushite" is evidently a coy synonym for "African-American": "A POEM.--The following is a verbatim copy of a pathetic poem addressed by a young Cushite of the female persuasion to her absent lover, [of] whome she appears to be distrustful. We give the poem as written, but not as spelled. Come all ye fair and tender ladies, Take warning how you love young men, They are like a bright star of a summer morning, Just appear and then are gone. They'll tell to you some lovely story, They'll swear to you their love is true. Straightway they'll go and court another, And that's the love they have for you. They'll tell to you some lovin' story, Declare to your their love is true. Straightway they'll go and court some other And that is the love that they have for you. I wish I'd known before I courted, I never would have courted none. I'd locked my heart above a-courting And fastened it up with a silver pin. I wish I was a little sparrow, And I had wings then I could fly. I'd fly away to my false true lover And when you spoke I would be by. I wish I was a little sparrow That I had wings and I could fly; I'd fly away to my false true lover And when he'd speak I would deny. But I am no little sparrow, I have no wings neither can I fly, So I sit down here in grief and sorrow And try to pass my troubles by. But I am not no little sparrow, I have no wings, neither can I fly. I'll sit down here and weep in sorrow, And pass my troubles by and by. Do you remember our days of courting When your head was upon my breasts? You could make me believe that the sun in the morning And the moon rose in the west. |
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12 Apr 22 - 04:52 PM (#4138893) Subject: RE: Origins: Fair and Tender Ladies / Little Sparrow From: GUEST On his recording, Pete Seeger sings a lovely line; "You could make believe by the falling of your arm that the sun rose in the West." He probably got it from Lomax |
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24 Apr 22 - 11:55 AM (#4140083) Subject: RE: Origins: Fair and Tender Ladies / Little Sparrow From: Stringsinger I don't know the melodies used for the above examples. When Pete Seeger recorded it for his early ten inch LP, "Darlin' Corey" he sang the second half of the song "They're like a star on a summer's morning" an octave higher which gave the song poignancy and passion. |
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24 Apr 22 - 12:31 PM (#4140088) Subject: RE: Origins: Fair and Tender Ladies / Little Sparrow From: Steve Gardham I think those 2 lines are in 'My Lagan Love' sung by Margaret Barry. |
