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31 Mar 00 - 08:56 PM (#204845) Subject: Synesthesia From: Chocolate Pi This morning in in my Intro Neurobiology course, the professor was talking about the levels of organization of cells in the brain cortex which recieve input from the eyes. After photons hit the photoreceptor cells in the retina and are translated into electrochemical signals, the information travels through several different cell types and eventually ends up in the cortex. There, the information is divided up, with some cells interpreting directional information (movement stuff) and luminosity (amount of light recieved). The "blob cells" deal with color, form and texture information. The professor's subsequent brief comments on what would happen if this organization got disrupted in some way reminded me of a recent discussion sparked by an issue of Discover which had an article on synestheisa (which I will no doubt misspell every time I write it), the condition where sensory input is mixed up in some way; tasting shapes, seeing sounds, hearing colors. In an unscientific sampling of people in my dorm, I found that getting colors associated with letters or numbers was by far the most common form of synesthiesia. Personally, I've always gotten color and texture for single sounds (not pieces of complicated music); my computer is making a fuzzy grey hum right now, my roommate's voice is cylindrical and pinkish, my neighbor's voice is red-brown and suede, the carillion is blue and yellow and flat. My best friend gets not only color but personality for the digits 0-9 and then mixes these for larger numbers. I'm curious which forms of synesthesia you other 'Catters have, and if they're more biased towards sounds in a group of musicians: what color (or sound, or shape, or smell, or texture ..) are eights? the letter p? the wind? falling water? etc.? Chocolate Pi (studying on Friday night again) |
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31 Mar 00 - 09:46 PM (#204858) Subject: RE: BS: Synesthesia From: Helen Hi Chocolate Pi, I don't associate colours etc with letters and numbers - except on one occasion, when I startled even myself. Someone asked me what colour an ink/stamp pad was and I was looking at the purple colour but I said "twelve". I have no idea where that came from. I tend to see colours, shapes and movements when I listen to music or sounds. If I am relaxing and feeling focused I can shut my eyes and "see" animations. I would love to be able to replicate the effect using computer animations. What I would like to do is something like Fantasia but instead of using characters and little story lines I would just use the shapes, colours and movements. I did an internet search when someone told me it was called synesthesia and found a few really good sites. I don't know if they are still there now. This topic came up in a Mudcat thread in around March or April 1999, but I can't remember which thread. A 'Catter called Steve t sent me a personal message about it and he is the one who told me what it is called. He also talked about a documentary he had seen about it. Helen
http://web.mit.edu/synesthesia/www/syn_refs.html
http://www.microweb.com/ronpell/VisualMusic.html
http://www.well.com/user/smalin/mam.html
Synesthesia: Phenomenology And Neuropsychology http://psyche.cs.monash.edu.au/v2/psyche-2-10-cytowic.html |
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31 Mar 00 - 10:02 PM (#204863) Subject: RE: BS: Synesthesia From: The Beanster Chocolate Pi, what an interesting question. When I learned about synesthesia in my neuropsychology classes the first thing that popped into my mind is how cylindrical Carlos Santana's guitar sounds to me, and it has the color of nickel or pewter. The higher the note, the lesser the diameter of the "pipe" and the shinier it gets. Also, the months of the year, when I visualize the calendar, are in the shape of a "D" with January beginning at the top and the rest of the months arcing down towards the bottom. On New Year's Eve, in that one instant at midnight, it suddenly springs up again to the top of the D. The brain is so amazing. (Not usually mine, but I mean, in general) heheheeee I can't wait to hear other people's contributions. |
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01 Apr 00 - 11:20 AM (#205098) Subject: RE: BS: Synesthesia From: Mooh Sounds have alot of colour for me, but not in the tacky sixties video or Fantasia cartoon sort of way. Explaining it could be pointless as I don't think I can make it understandable. Once in a while, like per year or so, a sound will illicit a taste, which always just bowls me over because I never see it coming, maybe surprise is an element here. You think? The colours are mostly black/grey to green to brown to reds and oranges. The tastes are like the air over water, or from a cave, or from some other place or home, but always distant in time and/or place. Glad to hear it's not just me...Mooh. |
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01 Apr 00 - 02:54 PM (#205209) Subject: RE: BS: Synesthesia From: Mrrzy Synesthesia is the most interesting thing I've ever heard about a human brain doing. When I was in grad school, we had a profesor studying it in my department (needless to say, back then in Neanderthal times, he didn't last), but it wasn't my area so I didn't get to do any real esearch in it. The closest I, personally, get is that the sound ee is, somehow, narrow. Unless I have help, which doesn't count. |
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31 Oct 02 - 05:02 PM (#815478) Subject: RE: BS: Synesthesia From: momnopp I'll have to look at this [particular] discussion more later, but I figured I should use Max's incredibly powerful search mechanism to find out if anyone had mentioned this cool site I got turned on to yesterday -- and sure enough, here is a thread where someone mentions it and gives a link to the site... Here's a more updated link for Music Animation Machine I saw a demonstration of this method of visualizing complex music and was really blown away by it. Thought other 'catters might enjoy it, too. Peace, JudyO |
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31 Oct 02 - 05:15 PM (#815484) Subject: RE: BS: Synesthesia From: Alice Interesting that you should start this thread, as a couple of days ago I was going to start a thread on synesthesia and how synesthetic people hear singing voices they like and don't like. I was thinking about the threads we've had recently where people have shared their opinions about singers, and how each person's perceptions are individual.... wondered what synesthetes hear regarding certain voices. Alot of artists are synesthetes, but I am not one. I did have an acquaintance who is a synesthete who told me he would listen to my mp3 tracks to hear the colors of my voice. He also dated a girl one time just because of the sound of her voice. When he was young, he was afraid to tell anyone about his perceptions because he thought they would think he was mentally ill. |
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31 Oct 02 - 06:54 PM (#815547) Subject: RE: BS: Synesthesia From: Glade 'The way we are: the astonishing anthropology of everyday life' by Margaret Visser published by Harper/Collins has an interesting chapter on synesthesia. Apparently Nabokov and his mother had it. Glade |
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01 Nov 02 - 06:21 AM (#815800) Subject: RE: BS: Synesthesia From: Pied Piper I have the Months, Days of the week, and Numbers thing. When I improvise with my eyes shut I see droplets of silver flying into a dark (but light?) infinite space. I've just read that again and it looks very Freudian. All the best PP. |
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01 Nov 02 - 06:31 AM (#815804) Subject: RE: BS: Synesthesia From: John Hardly Sorry Charlie, We don't want tunes in good taste... ...we want tunes that taste good! |
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01 Nov 02 - 07:16 AM (#815819) Subject: RE: BS: Synesthesia From: Brian Hoskin I see all numbers, letters, words, days of the week, etc in terms of specific colours. The only impact that this has on music for me is that every key has a colour. |
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01 Nov 02 - 08:55 AM (#815904) Subject: RE: BS: Synesthesia From: SharonA Fascinating thread! (and an appreciative *groan* to John Hardly for his pun!) |
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01 Nov 02 - 08:57 AM (#815909) Subject: RE: BS: Synesthesia From: Pied Piper Hi Brian. Do you hve perfect visual pitch? All the best PP |
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01 Nov 02 - 09:38 AM (#815985) Subject: RE: BS: Synesthesia From: Fibula Mattock There was another thread on this topic recently. Blue clicky: The taste of words??? |
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01 Nov 02 - 12:37 PM (#816161) Subject: RE: BS: Synesthesia From: fogie I quite envy you synaesthetes .Is there a downside to it? Do some things bring on nausea or horrible thoughts? |
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02 Nov 02 - 12:21 AM (#816619) Subject: RE: BS: Synesthesia From: GUEST,leeneia Here's a concrete instance. Thirty years ago I had an apartment on a busy street. One night, as I was going to sleep, a driver slammed on his/her brakes, which screamed for some seconds. I had my eyes closed, and for the entire time that the brakes screamed, I saw a burning candle "projected" on my eyelids. The instant the sound stopped, the candle disappeared. |
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02 Nov 02 - 01:19 PM (#816938) Subject: RE: BS: Synesthesia From: Mr Red Yea - I get a nasty taste in the mouth every time I see a picture of the ex-wife. Oh sorry, that's called divorce not synesthesia. Remind me - what is phonesthesia? I think it is a specific example of synesthesia but involves sound. |
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04 Nov 02 - 10:40 AM (#818003) Subject: RE: BS: Synesthesia From: Wolfgang Phonesthesia is something different and not synesthesia in the aural modality. Wolfgang |
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04 Nov 02 - 11:00 AM (#818035) Subject: RE: BS: Synesthesia From: Brian Hoskin The only difficulty I have is in remembering names, because I see various groups of names as having the same or similar colours and I'll remember the colour, but not the specific name. People find it strange that I confuse two names that are spelt and sound completely differently and (believe me) explaining that it's because they're the shame colour really doesn't help! Brian |
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04 Nov 02 - 02:08 PM (#818235) Subject: RE: BS: Synesthesia From: JenEllen I found a rather interesting book this weekend that had a chapter on this very subject. The book is "Brains That Work a Little Bit Differently", by Alan D. Bragdon and David Gamon, PhD. It gives brief overview on various things like left-handedness, dyslexia, and even synesthesia. A bit dumbed down for my tastes, but readable. If it interests you, you can order it from the Oregon Museum of Science and Industry OMSI or by calling the OMSI bookstore at (503) 797-4626. ~JE |
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04 Nov 02 - 05:11 PM (#818425) Subject: RE: BS: Synesthesia From: GUEST,Laurie Interesting thread. There was an artist by the name of Pamela Coleman Smith who had a rather extreme case of Synesthesia. Whenever she would hear symphonic music, she would see visions, usually landscapes. She would draw these landscapes although she would often feel "displaced" and "unattached" to the drawing after the synesthetic (word?) episode. It was almost as if someone else had executed the drawing. Pamela Coleman Smith is best known for her Tarot card designs. I believe that there are articles in Art History journals about Smith and her "visions". |
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05 Nov 02 - 05:11 PM (#819348) Subject: RE: BS: Synesthesia From: Mr Red check-out the BBC website. http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4 (www essential). There is a program next Tues at 9-30 9-30ish GMT (adio streamed using the real format) Prog called Science at 9. They sometimes give a synopsis and list schedules about a day ahead. |
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05 Nov 02 - 05:42 PM (#819382) Subject: RE: BS: Synesthesia From: Mad Maudlin Interesting thread indeed! It's great to know that there are some more people who have such experiences! And I was thinking I was living up to my nickname and going crazy...so there! :) To me, several the guitar chords have different colors: A minor is a dark, mossy green, E minor is a dark brown (like good, fertile earth), D major is bright yellow like sunflowers, C major is a silvery, greyish blue, F major is pale yellow, E major is a lighter shade of brown than E minor...the majors are usually the same color as the minors, only a shade or two lighter. And yes, musk and patchouli smell black and sandalwood sandy-colored...I have incense sticks that smell orange, too. Not of oranges, just orange. To me, some songs also evoke certain pictures, but I never succeed in drawing them. Such a pity! Weird, isn't it? For me, it was only natural because it has been like that all my life. Has anyone of you ever tried to tell other people about this? |
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05 Nov 02 - 05:54 PM (#819390) Subject: RE: BS: Synesthesia From: Amos I do not believe it is weird at all. I think that live direct perception is by nature NOT channeled into substreams of different sensory lines a priori. The subdivision into separate "media" is a complex process imposed on the being by the brain. Without that, perception tends to be 360-degree, all-spectrum, instantaneous appreciation of what is on all frequencies at once. But many folks aren't up to handling that sort of raw feed and they filter it down, an exercise for which the body's channels serve quite nicely. Kinda like a wide-spectrum equalizer, it cuts out all but the acceptable parts. (The dumbing down of souls is a terrible waste!) :>) Regards, A A |
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05 Nov 02 - 06:04 PM (#819397) Subject: RE: BS: Synesthesia From: Mad Maudlin "Kinda like a wide-spectrum equalizer, it cuts out all but the acceptable parts. (The dumbing down of souls is a terrible waste!) :>)" Well said indeed, Amos! I don't know the scientific background of all this, but one thing is sure: I would miss it terribly if I were to lose it. It makes the world a little more colorful :) |
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06 Nov 02 - 06:56 AM (#819760) Subject: RE: BS: Synesthesia From: Pied Piper Amos. So the senses work as filters for the "soul". Organisms evolved senses not to filter out information but to detect it. You've got the process arse about tit. The simplest eyes are found in bacteria, which use them to orient themselves and move toward or away from light. To say that the bacteria evolved a system for filtering out every thing but light is ridiculous. PP |
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06 Nov 02 - 09:31 AM (#819846) Subject: RE: BS: Synesthesia From: Amos Sorry, PP! I wasn't talking about bacteria. I was making no comment here about evolution. I was expressing an opinion about the direct perception available to someone not using physical senses, vice the patterns of perception we tend to get when using the body as the primary interface with spacetime. I don't know what kind of perception bacteria get --not being one myself -- interesting about their eyelets, though. Ridicule away, if it makes ya happy. A |
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06 Nov 02 - 09:45 AM (#819854) Subject: RE: BS: Synesthesia From: GUEST,Taliesn There should be no mystery about the cross-coherency of experiencing sound and color ; both experiences as the direct result of frequency vibrations of "living" energy. Just as musical scales repeat with each octave so too does what we expereince as music repeat when vibrations are octaved-up to where they acheive what we experience as the color spectrum. With this as a working metaphor one can begin to grasp experiencing "life" itself at higher frequencies that our low-frequency physics body-based conciousness are too dull to register as applicable exerience. That's where *intuition* informs *aesthetics*; the 7th sense. ( well ,perhaps 6.5 sense ;-) |
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06 Nov 02 - 11:57 AM (#819996) Subject: RE: BS: Synesthesia From: Pied Piper Amos. Do you believe in evolution by natural selection? That bacterium and you have a common ancestor. The processes that gave rise to single celled organisms also gave rise to us. We are made up of specialised single cells. PP |
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06 Nov 02 - 12:47 PM (#820048) Subject: RE: BS: Synesthesia From: Amos PP: My suspicion is that there may be a purely bio-chemical track which is evolutionary in the most mechanistic way, and another element of intentionality involved which perhaps has some strong influence. The fact that evolution does describe the development of body forms does not speak one way or the other to the question of whether an individual _is_ a body, or whether he simply _operates_ one. Some people seriously believe they are material beings who occasionally have spiritual experiences. THis leads to an incredible amount of tanglefoot about what those are and where they come from, the kind of confusion that is readily generated by some misestimation in basic premises. A similar amount of confusion arose from the flawed basic premsies of alchemy, and the early cosmological models which were based on Earth-centrism or flat-planet assumptions. I believe a more elegant and workable model is to assume we are spiritual beings with occasional material experiences. This paradigm aligns better, IMHO, with all the reported phenomena, and reduces the number of necessary arbitraries and ignored data, but it does not reject any of the actual scientific observations in support of Darwin, as far as I can see. I have no problem with the stew-pot model of developing material forms and evolution, in general, although I think it leaves many questions unanswered -- especially rates of change and the advantages of incomplete transitions, which often get glossed over in discussions. Well...you asked! :>) Of course it is perfectly possible my opinions on these matters are quite unacceptable to you,in which case I can only suggest we agree to disagree -- I certainly don't want to get into a metaphysical food-fight over it. Regards, A |
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06 Nov 02 - 09:53 PM (#820436) Subject: RE: BS: Synesthesia From: GUEST,Rev I'm interested that one of the first messages in this thread mention the personalities of numbers. While I occasionally experience synaesthesia in a variety of ways -- usually music as shapes -- but I have, for as long as I can remember associated distinct personalities with numbers. It's hard to explain, but here are my numbers with their corresponding "personality" traits. 1 -- taciturn, solemn 2 -- carefree, a joker 3 -- sexy and mysterious 4 -- kind of dumb but pleasant 5 -- strong willed, ambitious, doesn't kid around 6 -- a party animal 7 -- shy and awkward (doesn't get along with 6 or 8) 8 -- cocky, a smooth operator 9 -- brainy, powerful yet humble 10 -- a regal figure, all the other numbers look up to 10 Is this totally insane? Or do other people have similar ways of thinking about numbers? By the way, I am not particularly good in math, any connection? Rev |
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06 Nov 02 - 10:17 PM (#820450) Subject: RE: BS: Synesthesia From: Bee-dubya-ell A fair number of UK Mudcatters seem to associate the number "9" with several species of animals, including horses, hamsters, and bears. Bruce |
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07 Nov 02 - 02:18 PM (#820926) Subject: RE: BS: Synesthesia From: Amos It's not insane in itself -- it is a personal creative association. You have a natural and sovereign right to make those up anyway you see fit, as suits your own instant desire. Now if you start expecting other people to acknowledge and subscribe to the map you have made of the persona of numbers, you may have a collision on your hands. I think of 1 as a holy number with saintly demeanor, for example, and 2 as a vibrant energetic and productive number. Perhaps we should start a religous war on this issue? A |
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07 Nov 02 - 04:01 PM (#821014) Subject: RE: BS: Synesthesia From: Mr Red Bee-dubya-ell Several UK 'Catters are fatigued-out on "9 the Horse" and most of 'em don't come from Hull. |
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07 Nov 02 - 04:27 PM (#821034) Subject: RE: BS: Synesthesia From: GUEST,Cliint Keller Amos-- A Wm. Blake quote (you doubtless know it): We have no Body distinct from Soul, for that called Body is a portion of Soul discern'd by the five Senses. Same thing all those reductionist, mechanistic, materialistic, -- whatever -- people say, but flipped. I always liked it. Clint |
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07 Nov 02 - 07:23 PM (#821148) Subject: RE: BS: Synesthesia From: Amos Thanks, Clint!! Wodda guy that Blake was. I get shivers reading almost anything he wrote! A |