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15 May 00 - 02:55 AM (#228110) Subject: Ancient Celtic Tunes From: Brennus I am interested in finding tunes which are considered to be the oldest extant in the Celtic music tradition, ones that can be assumed to have existed prior to 1650 or so. Possible types include: sean nos songs, ceol mor pipe tunes, clan marches, and/or harp tunes. Any suggestions on titles and the sources where they can be found would be greatly appreciated. Go raibh maith agat. |
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15 May 00 - 06:39 AM (#228133) Subject: RE: Ancient Celtic Tunes From: dulcimer Try http://services.worldnet.net/~pybertra/ceol/ |
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15 May 00 - 09:14 AM (#228161) Subject: RE: Ancient Celtic Tunes From: GUEST,T in Oklahoma (Okiemockbird) The Gregorian chant repertory was cultivated in lands where Celtic languages were spoken, as it was elsewhere. Hence Gregorian chant is probably the oldest extant "Celtic" music. T. |
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15 May 00 - 09:19 AM (#228162) Subject: RE: Ancient Celtic Tunes From: paddymac One of my favorites favorites within your parameters is "The Girl I Left Behind" which dates back to at least the time of Elizabeth I. Many of the tunes in O'Neill's and the Fiddler's Fake Book probably also qualify, but you'ld have to do some research to sort them out. |
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15 May 00 - 09:49 AM (#228175) Subject: RE: Ancient Celtic Tunes From: Sorcha Documenting the Oral/Aural Traditon is never easy. The earliest I have been able to document what we call "Celtic" is O'Carolan, but we all "know" there was stuff before that. You may have to define "Celtic" before you can go much farther-----Hallstadt? LaTene? Ireland? |
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15 May 00 - 10:41 AM (#228202) Subject: RE: Ancient Celtic Tunes From: GUEST,Okiemockbird David Byers' Homepage has some historical information. There was a collection of Irish tunes published in 1724, the Neal Collection. I don't know if the melodies have been dated. Some of the melodies in the Fitzwilliam Virginal Book are called "Irish", e.g. "The Irish Ho-Hoane". Of course, this doesn't mean they truly were Irish in origin. T. |
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15 May 00 - 02:48 PM (#228303) Subject: RE: Ancient Celtic Tunes From: Megan L The oldest I know is the hymn 'be thou my vision' thought to have been written around the 6th century. |
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15 May 00 - 03:14 PM (#228319) Subject: RE: Ancient Celtic Tunes From: Alice Brennus, have you looked at Bruce Olson's Website? click here - Old and Rare, W. Bruce Olson
The songs on Bruce's website as well as the links he provides should give you plenty of material. alice
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15 May 00 - 03:50 PM (#228347) Subject: RE: Ancient Celtic Tunes From: GUEST,Okiemockbird The Irish words now often translated "Be thou my vision" are old. (So, for that matter, are the Irish and Latin words to many other hymns, such as "Atomriug indiu " = "I arise today", also known as "St. Patrick's Lorica".) But the melody (Brennus is seeking tunes) is much more recent. My guess would be, 18th-19th century. T. |
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15 May 00 - 03:51 PM (#228348) Subject: RE: Ancient Celtic Tunes From: GUEST,Okiemockbird It is my understanding also that the Irish words now often translated "Be thou my vision" are old. (So, for that matter, are the Irish and/or Latin words to many other Irish hymns, such as "Atomriug indiu " = "I arise today", also known as "St. Patrick's Lorica".) But the melody (Brennus is seeking tunes) is much more recent. My guess would be, 18th-19th century. T. |
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15 May 00 - 04:00 PM (#228352) Subject: RE: Ancient Celtic Tunes From: Petr There is a chieftains and harp cd which lists one tune as the earliest written Irish tune (I think it dates to the 13th century but I ll have to look it up. PEtr |
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15 May 00 - 05:16 PM (#228390) Subject: RE: Ancient Celtic Tunes From: Penny S. If you have the words, with the metre and the rhyme scheme, they should suggest the sort of melody which would go with them, shouldn't they? I can't read the Irish words of the Lorica, or Be Thou my Vision: do they fit the well known tunes (several to St Patrick, aren't there), or do they demand some other sort of pattern? Penny |
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15 May 00 - 06:49 PM (#228432) Subject: RE: Ancient Celtic Tunes From: Mbo Petr, the tune is "Deirdre's Lament for the Sons of Usnach", considered to be the oldest known Irish song. --Mbo |
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15 May 00 - 08:55 PM (#228490) Subject: RE: Ancient Celtic Tunes From: dulcimer Mbo--is there a midi somewhere for Deirdre's Lament? |
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16 May 00 - 12:31 AM (#228570) Subject: RE: Ancient Celtic Tunes From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca Are there words to that song? |
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16 May 00 - 09:32 AM (#228699) Subject: RE: Ancient Celtic Tunes From: GUEST,Okiemockbird Here is a commentary on an Altramar recording with some historical comments. T. |
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16 May 00 - 04:30 PM (#228982) Subject: RE: Ancient Celtic Tunes From: Penny S. I think Geoffrey of Monmouth discusses the singing of the Welsh - I'm not sure about the Irish - not the same as music itself, but the passage was interesting. Penny |
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16 May 00 - 10:14 PM (#229126) Subject: RE: Ancient Celtic Tunes From: Alice Search the forum with the words "oldest song" for an earlier thread on this topic. Alice |
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16 May 00 - 10:45 PM (#229137) Subject: RE: Ancient Celtic Tunes From: Alice Sorry, that should be click here "oldest folk" not oldest song. Alice |
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17 May 00 - 04:46 PM (#229519) Subject: RE: Ancient Celtic Tunes From: ofurey I am looking for some jigs and reels .mid. Can you help with that? Joe |
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17 May 00 - 07:31 PM (#229586) Subject: RE: Ancient Celtic Tunes From: keltcgrasshoppper The book "O'Neill's Music of Ireland" is probably a good source for tunes.. Not songs though.. But if its jigs and reels, and slip jigs and on and on... this is the book to get..It has over 1,000 tunes.. |