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23 Jun 00 - 12:50 AM (#246303) Subject: Flamenco anyone? From: WyoWoman I mentioned on another thread that I've recently discovered the music of Miguel Espinoza and Ty Burhof, who do some really beautiful flamenco music. I've been wearing the CD I got into a wafer, listening to it while moving across country. I just love this stuff. And every time I hear good flamenco music, I just love it. But despite that, I haven't bought myself any CDs before. Mostly this is because I just don't know where to start. Any flamenco aficianados out there in MudcatLand who can give me some pointers on starting a modest collection?
And yes, flamenco counts as folk music, don't you think?Gracias, ww |
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23 Jun 00 - 12:53 AM (#246305) Subject: RE: Flamenco anyone? From: Mbo Try the album Flamenco with classical guitar master (and a bit of an idol of mine) Pepe Romero. Awesome playing, and gritty hard-hitting folk lyrics sung by some of Spain's best Flamenco singers. |
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23 Jun 00 - 01:02 AM (#246316) Subject: RE: Flamenco anyone? From: WyoWoman You are simply amazing. I'll go see if I can find it right now... ww |
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23 Jun 00 - 01:15 AM (#246327) Subject: RE: Flamenco anyone? From: Rick Fielding Howdy Wyo. For my money Paco De Lucia has it all. His early work is pretty traditional and his later stuff has a lot of jazz elements. He is a wondrous player. However....however...If you want to hear the REAL McCoy, get anything by Manitas de Plata. Whooeee, that guy can make you feel like you're in a little dive in Andalucia. Some folks think Paco Pena is the ultimate....but almost everyone probably thinks that Carlos Montoya (who popularized the genre) is not very good. His albums are the easiest to find though. The afficianados always thought he was the "Wayne Newton" of Flamenco guitarists. Hope that helps a bit. Enjoy. Rick |
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23 Jun 00 - 01:17 AM (#246328) Subject: RE: Flamenco anyone? From: Rick Fielding Forgot to mention Sabicas. Saw him a number of years ago. He was great. Rick |
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23 Jun 00 - 01:25 AM (#246334) Subject: RE: Flamenco anyone? From: WyoWoman Back I go to Amazon.com ... They didn't have Pepe Romero, but I ordered a compilation disc. I'll see if they have any of these that you mentioned, Rick. And howdy back at ya. Wish I could come up for the soiree this weekend. That ought to be SOME fun... ww |
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23 Jun 00 - 01:32 AM (#246337) Subject: RE: Flamenco anyone? From: WyoWoman Hey, Rick. You can earn a $50 gift certificate from Amazon.com if you write a review of Sabicas' cds. They haven't gotten a review yet. ww |
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23 Jun 00 - 01:37 AM (#246343) Subject: RE: Flamenco anyone? From: Rick Fielding It would be an easy 50 bucks if I REALLY knew what I was talking about, but I'm merely a fan. Rick |
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23 Jun 00 - 03:50 AM (#246384) Subject: RE: Flamenco anyone? From: Escamillo I love flamenco too - what could be expected from a "toreador" ? - but am no expert. Agreed with Mbo and Rick that Pepe Romero and Paco de Lucía are good approaches, I would only say if you want to start by the roots, avoid De Lucía's recent jazzistic works and overemphasized rumbas, which are nearer to the commercial stuff than to the flamenco art. And try to get a video of a flamenco session, or attend one, cause the viewable part is as valuable as the audible. Un abrazo bien calé - Andrés |
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23 Jun 00 - 05:45 AM (#246402) Subject: RE: Flamenco anyone? From: Morticia There is something about flamenco that really stirs me up and all my hard floors take a real pounding...I wish I could find a class that would teach me to do it properly, I reckon it would be wonderfully therapeutic |
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23 Jun 00 - 09:52 AM (#246493) Subject: RE: Flamenco anyone? From: Dani Here: http://www.wilmatheater.org/press/1999_0115.html is a review of Noche Flamenco, which I'm planning to see at Wolf Trap in August. Can't wait! It really is music to pump your blood. Anyone know more about it as a folk tradition? Dani https://web.archive.org/web/20010108042000/http://www.wilmatheater.org/press/1999_0115.html |
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23 Jun 00 - 10:19 AM (#246502) Subject: RE: Flamenco anyone? From: Kim C I'd like to learn Flamenco dance too. Is there a video? I know it's not traditional Flamenco, but I like Ottmar Leibert. |
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23 Jun 00 - 10:33 AM (#246514) Subject: RE: Flamenco anyone? From: Mbo WW, the Pepe Romero album is at amazon.com. It's right here! Chano Lobata is the cool guy who does the singing! --Mbo |
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23 Jun 00 - 10:53 AM (#246520) Subject: RE: Flamenco anyone? From: Mark Clark Check out Mario Escudero. There was a Folkways ten-inch album of him that I used to check out all the time from the public library. I think I must've worn out the grooves on that copy. That was back in 1960 but I think you could still order this from the Smithsonian. Come to think of it, maybe I'll order one too. The first time I visited Mexico City (1962) I bought a wonderful flemenco guitar from a luthier on the Avenue of the Americas; I don't remember his name anymore. It was beautifully made with cyprus back and sides that you could actually see light and shadows through. It's sound had that wonderful edge and volume that flemenco guitars have. I sure wish I had that guitar today.
- Mark https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mario_Escudero |
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23 Jun 00 - 11:39 AM (#246547) Subject: RE: Flamenco anyone? From: WyoWoman Wow, Mark. I've never heard of a guitar like that. I bet that was awesome. Mmmmm. Morticia and Kim: Maria Benitez in Santa Fe, N.M., used to run a flamenco dance school in the summertime. I don't know if she still does, but I've sent a friend there an email to see if she can find out. They actually had classes for beginners, as well as intermediate and advanced. She's world-renowned and absolutely excellent. I've had this fantasy of going for a week or two and taking the bery-bery-beginners classes. If I do, let's meet up, si? God, I wish I could win the lottery so I could go travel to all this cool stuff. The Juke Joint site that Roger the Skiffler started makes me want to go tour the Mississippi delta, this thread makes me want to take off for Espana, and the EL SWANNO AND BIG MICK BUCK NEKKID IN TORONTO (or whatever) makes me want to fly immediately to Toronto. Plainly, I need a much bigger travel budget. WW |
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23 Jun 00 - 12:39 PM (#246578) Subject: RE: Flamenco anyone? From: Mark Clark WW, I think what I described is a common design and construction for high quality flemenco guitars. If you click on the Mario Escudero link I provided you'll see him playing a guitar quite similar (in appearance) to the one I bought in Mexico City. They are so thin and light it's just hard to believe.
- Mark |
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23 Jun 00 - 01:19 PM (#246609) Subject: RE: Flamenco anyone? From: M. Ted (inactive) Just to add my 2 cents-- Flamenco music and dance are art forms created and perfomed by gypsies. The general consensus(as far as musicians dancers and singers that I have known) is the Ricardo Balliardo, called "Manitas de Plata" is the best of the flamenco guitarists, and he has a very special place in their hearts.(Also is a cousin to the Balliardos in the "Gipsy Kings") To understand flamenco guitar, you must know that pieces are composed of two elements--Rasgueo, which are strummed rhythmic phrases, and falsetas, which are melodic phrases. What sounds, at least to the uninitiated ear, like an emotional and hysterical frenzy of musical energy is actually a subtle and intricate interweaving of musical ideas. The music is not written, it is generally passed from father to son, and each player is highly individualistic in his use and development of ideas. For dancing, the rasgueo predominate--but in solo work, and when accompanying singing, the player works primarily with the falsetas, which may be traditional, taken from the work of other players, or created by the performer. To my mind, the Alternating structure, the rhythms, and the scales are very closely tied to Arabic music. For that matter, it works a lot like blues and jazz, which tells you where I think that that all came from. In fact, years ago, in Philadephia, there was an oud player by the name of Chick who used to play at the regular flamenco parties at Julia Lopez-Torres restaurant down at 2nd and Chestnut. He played next door at the Middle East, and worked up a cross cultural repertoire with Julia's husband, a guitarist, who, I believe, was called Juan Lopez. Chick had stretched the boundaries of the oud considerably, and in addition to his forays into flamenco, had recorded and performed with several famous jazz bands. He fell prey, as many musicians do, to the bottle, in the last years of his career (in the 80's) was often barely able to play. One night, he was sleeping in his apt when a fire broke out, and, because he was slow to awaken, was severely burned. He never played again. I lost track of him, but heard that he died not many years later, on the West Coast. Sorry, didn't mean to stray so far off topic, but it just came to mind, and I had to mention it. I suppose the point is that flamenco is is an excellent and important kind of traditional music, and there are many players out there, that not many people may know about, but who are worth hearing and knowing.
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23 Jun 00 - 02:27 PM (#246642) Subject: RE: Flamenco anyone? From: Mark Clark Yes! Smithsonian Folkways can still supply the Mario Escudero album I mentioned. What would we do without the Smithsonian? - Mark |
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23 Jun 00 - 04:18 PM (#246680) Subject: RE: Flamenco anyone? From: Peter T. Don't neglect the poetry -- Garcia Lorca's "Profound Songs" , his plays (Blood Wedding) and other Granadan verse. yours, Peter T. |
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23 Jun 00 - 04:36 PM (#246689) Subject: RE: Flamenco anyone? From: GUEST,Annraoi For the ultimate in Flamenco music both Cante Jondo and Cante Chico, hunt up the "Antología del Cante Jondo" by numerous artistes including the incomparable "cantaor" Jacinto de Almadén", issued now in CD format by the "Hispavox" company. Although 30 + years old, it is still, IMHO, the definitive compilation. Annraoi |
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23 Jun 00 - 09:27 PM (#246814) Subject: RE: Flamenco anyone? From: rangeroger I have been a Carlos Montoya and Sabicas fan for years. Probably the most unusual flamenco album I have is Sabicas- Rock Encounter with Joe Beck.It is a fusion of the two mediums and actually works.Of course the die-hard flemenco purists will dimiss it as trash, but Sabicas was willing to experiment. rr |
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23 Jun 00 - 09:33 PM (#246817) Subject: RE: Flamenco anyone? From: WyoWoman I did find out the dates for the Maria Benitez dance workshop in Santa Fe, N.M. this summer. I have a phone number as well, if anyone is seriously interested. They do take rank beginners (such as myself. I'm very rank.) and my friend who's been says the people are absolutely great -- both the ones teaching and the ones learning. The dates are July 31 - August 13. Unfortunately I'm going to be in Alaska for part of that time, but I'm seeing if the workshop is broken into one-week segments... Send me a message if you want any more details. WW |
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24 Jun 00 - 12:32 AM (#246871) Subject: RE: Flamenco anyone? From: Escamillo Wyo, will we see the results of those workshops in the Cantina ? :)) Un abrazo - Andrés |
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29 Oct 03 - 11:16 AM (#1043850) Subject: RE: Flamenco anyone? From: Beverley Barton jOhn from hull, i want your babies! thanks for finding this old thread |
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29 Oct 03 - 11:18 AM (#1043853) Subject: RE: Flamenco anyone? From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull I havent got no babies, if i did you could have them, 9babies are rubbish, cry to much etc. |
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15 Sep 24 - 12:38 PM (#4208393) Subject: RE: Flamenco anyone? From: keberoxu This thread contains a WyoWoman post referencing Maria Benitez. By way of an update: Maria Benitez died this week at the age of 82. She not only taught flamenco in the summer, but she had a program for children called Flamenco Next Generation. Some of those children grew up to be professional flamenco dancers themselves. |
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15 Sep 24 - 05:58 PM (#4208403) Subject: RE: Flamenco anyone? From: GUEST,Steve Shaw Living where I do, in Cornwall UK, flamenco is rather elusive. But a good few years ago now we did see flamenco at the Plough in Torrington, a venue not too far away in Devon which puts all sorts of folk music and other cultural things on its programmes. Also, years ago we were able to visit Córdoba in Andalucía, and my sister treated us to an evening of flamenco, the real genuine article, and we absolutely loved it. If you get the opportunity, go and see flamenco. I have a feeling that original genuine flamenco is something that you may need to go to Sevilla to see. One day... Anyway, I love it. There's a superb book by Jason Webster called "Duende: A Journey in Search of Flamenco" which is a great read for anyone who wants to delve more deeply into this art form. |
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15 Sep 24 - 10:50 PM (#4208413) Subject: RE: Flamenco anyone? From: Joe Offer Interesting that this thread should come up today. My wife and I attended today's performance of the Flamenco Society and we were enthralled. My wife is a dancer, but neither one of us has even experienced flamenco before. The leader of the troupe said that flamenco is native only to Spain, and that it has Roma roots. It was originally a singing style - the dancing came later. The songs sung in the performance were partly Spanish, and partly Roma, which is why I had such a hard time understanding much of the singing. The leader told me that the singing and dancing were a conversation between the singer, the guitarist, and the dancer; and were improv directed by the dancer for the most part. The leader did not know of any connection to Portuguese fado singing, but I'm guessing there must be some connection. Ah, it was a glorious afternoon!! |
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22 Sep 24 - 05:12 PM (#4208725) Subject: RE: Flamenco anyone? From: Big Al Whittle Love flamenco. For an outsider its hard to distinguish between other forms folk music. The first time I went to Spain in the 1970's I thought I was hearing flamenco in Lloret de Mar. The locals told me, no way - we play Basque music. Flamenco is Andalucia in the south, and its gypsy music. ETTTA, the separatist basque group set a bomb off on the beach the next day to emphasise the point to us dumb outsiders,. I saw Manitas de Plata in '68 when played De Montfort Hall in Leicester, Never seen so many standing ovations. Strangely enough, he played guitar with all five fingers of his right hand, which gave him ability to play three different themes simultaneously. The only guy I ever saw do it! Most players don't use the little finger. The thing about flamenco, its the absolute mastery of rhythmic patterns that gives the music its astonishing power. Whereas classical players aim for the integrity and value of every note, like each note is a jewel, with a perfect setting. |
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23 Sep 24 - 01:10 AM (#4208735) Subject: RE: Flamenco anyone? From: rich-joy I still have my Manitas L.P (...and his Flamenco Magic), that I bought with my pocket money in 1964, at age 13 :) My Mum loved it too and we often played it at home in the evenings in Perth, West Aussie. (I still can't play guitar nor dance flamenco, though :) R-J |