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29 Jun 00 - 08:53 AM (#249092) Subject: Non-Music Threads... From: black walnut It seems to me that more and more threads are popping up that do not pertain to folk or blues music. That's well and fine, I suppose, but could people starting non-music threads PLEASE indicate them as such in the Subject Heading? It's one thing to say, "If you don't want to read BS threads, you don't have to open them". It's quite another to just post them in the midst of folk and blues without some kind of marker. Maybe you think your topic is worthy of something more profound than a BS heading, because it's 'serious'. Then at least put 'Non-Music' in the heading. In this forum "decicated to blues and folk music", I think this is simple courtesy. It would save some of us time sorting through everything on the other end. Thank you, ~black walnut
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29 Jun 00 - 09:08 AM (#249102) Subject: RE: Non-Music Threads... From: SDShad Well, I'm libertarian enough that I think all thread prefix choices have gotta be strictly voluntary, at the discretion of the thread-starter, but I've no problem with your suggestion in that sense, bw. Admittedly, it doesn't make too much sense to not use "Lyr Add" when you want do add lyrics to the DT, though. A lot of this is just plain common sense. I use BS for just that purpose when I start a non-musical (and sometimes a non-folk-or-blues) thread. Maybe for the "my thread is serious, it's not BS, but it's not music either" threads, maybe NM for Non-Musical threads could work. Chris |
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29 Jun 00 - 01:29 PM (#249279) Subject: RE: Non-Music Threads... From: GUEST,Mrr I have been confused about this, and I am not sure that there is a consensus. I used to put NonMusic if starting a nonmusical thread, but was told that the BS prefix is what means this isn't about music but I still think it's worth discussing (if not, why post, right?) - so I stopped doing it and just use BS. I do try to be explicit that it's about Mutations or something, so if you click, see the question and it isn't musical, just hit Back and go on. Am I now being a bad mudcatter? |
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29 Jun 00 - 02:02 PM (#249301) Subject: RE: Non-Music Threads... From: wysiwyg I tried for this consensus once and was told it had gone around and around so many times that a lot of the more veteran members were just sort of touchy about it. So... realistically, it will probably continue pretty much as is, which is actually still so much better than other online commmunities that I just give thanks for Mudcat and all the people in it. At it. Of it. Whatever... ~S |
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29 Jun 00 - 02:17 PM (#249311) Subject: RE: Non-Music Threads... From: katlaughing Praise, you've got that right, no matter how many times it comes up...Mrr, no, you are not being a bad Mudcatter...we are all mature enough to deal with whatever foibles we each choose to exercise or not....this is one we're never going to get a total general consensus on... kurmudgeonkat |
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29 Jun 00 - 02:44 PM (#249332) Subject: RE: Non-Music Threads... From: Jon Freeman This one crops up fairly regularly and for what it's worth, I believe in the use of the prefixes but would prefer the BS prefix to be renamed. BTW, Black Walnut, I would have thought the BS (or other non music) prefix appropriate for this thread. Jon |
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29 Jun 00 - 04:06 PM (#249394) Subject: RE: Non-Music Threads... From: black walnut really, jon? i thought i was talking about the prime focus of this forum, which is blues and folk. ~'nut |
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29 Jun 00 - 04:17 PM (#249402) Subject: RE: Non-Music Threads... From: Jon Freeman Sorry Black Walnut, I obviously missunderstood you when you said "Maybe you think your topic is worthy of something more profound than a BS heading, because it's 'serious'. Then at least put 'Non-Music' in the heading." Jon |
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29 Jun 00 - 04:38 PM (#249415) Subject: RE: Non-Music Threads... From: Mrrzy BS stands for Breeze-Shooting, so it's OK with me...and redundantkat, isn't it supposed to be "general consensus of opinion" (*BG*)? |
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29 Jun 00 - 05:03 PM (#249432) Subject: RE: Non-Music Threads... From: McGrath of Harlow I agree that it's courteous to give an indication what a thread is about. It's irritating to see a column of threads with no indication of what sort they are, and we all lose out in the process.
But BS only seems appropriate if you're starting a jokey social. If it's setting out to be a serious discussion about life and death things, somehow BS seems wrong, and I'm sure that's one reason why a lot of threads don't use it.
Of course, though the official prefixes are there, there's nothing to stop us adding our own if we feel like it, to let people know what in your mind.
Though thread drift can always mean that something that is serious turns social and frivolous, or the other way round, and non-music threads are always prone to turn into music threads, and the other way round here as well. A discussion about Lord Musgrove can turn into one about violent husbands, and the Cruel Mother could get into infanticide and so forth.
And the other gap is a conventional prefix for a thread that is trying to hunt down the history and meaning of a song. Which are in the last resort maybe the most valuable threads of all. So I suggest we go for the form "Disc: I hate cars" or whatever, if it's a serious (initially serious anyway) discussion we are after, and leave BS for the social and the frivolous. And maybe "Song inf?:My Old Man's a Dustman" And take it from there. At some point a convention will develop, and we can live within it... or ignore it. (I'd sooner not have more sets of initials. That's a personal quirk that I would be happy to seek to justify if need be.)
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29 Jun 00 - 05:54 PM (#249462) Subject: RE: Non-Music Threads... From: Rick Fielding Hi Walnut. The PRIME focus of this forum has not been blues and folk for a long long time. When I first came on a little over two years ago there were many heated arguments about the direction Mudcat was going. As more folks heard about it and joined, there became fewer and fewer people to support the "music only" position. Now I suspect it would be a mere handful. Some very knowledgable folks like Bruce Olson quit in anger. Others, like Art, tried their damndest to swing the tide, but eventually became infrequent posters. Gargoyle (a very keen traddie) resorted to incredible nastiness at what he saw as the end of Mudcat as a "serious" music site. Joe Offer often stated the same warnings in a less personal (most of the time) way, but seems to have given up. A few months ago Mudcat almost self-destructed from the viciousness of a (very) few anonymous flamers who claimed they wanted the best for the forum, but soon resorted to personal attacks on people they didn't like. As more people join there will less emphasis on (traditional, as most know it) folk music. Today it is a community of folks who all LIKE music, but enjoy communicating with each other. It may not meet everyone's needs, but it's still the best thing on the net. It should be easy to see that the topics that folks WANT to discuss will have the most posts. That's democracy at it's best (or worst) depending on your point of view. It ain't poifect, but it's the best we got! Rick |
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29 Jun 00 - 06:11 PM (#249466) Subject: RE: Non-Music Threads... From: McGrath of Harlow Naah, it's not democracy. The Mudcat isn't Democratic. Never has been, never will be. It's Anarchic, with a touch of benevolent absolute monarchy thrown in. Otherwise Rick's quite right, of course.
I flashed on this vision of the Mudcat as some kind of rerun of the Mormon settlement of Utah. These Gentiles keep on coming in, a few pretty nasty things happen in the process. But it ends up with a viable enough community, lots of Saints, lots of Gentiles, a Mormon Tabernacle Choir in full voice, and the whole planet over there are with polite blokes in black suits with labels on the collar knocking on the door or greeting you in the streets.
It's a nerve-wracking analogy. Don't push it too far. It's the Mudcat Tavern, not the Mudcat Tabernacle. |
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29 Jun 00 - 06:46 PM (#249481) Subject: RE: Non-Music Threads... From: Áine I suppose since I was the one who began the "Next To Die In Texas..." thread, I'm one of the folks that black walnut is chastising. In my defense, I didn't label it "BS", "Non-Mus", "Disc", etc., because I started the thread with a song, not with a request for discussion. I admit that I should have known better, but I expected folks to post other songs that pertained to the subject. I'm not a professional musician nor do I carry a union card, so I guess I wouldn't pass Rick and Joe's test for membership in the Mudcat. But thank goodness that Max didn't ask to see any "proof" that I belonged here. I've picked up my guitar and have begun writing songs again after several years of inactivity, I've started learning the mandolin, and I've made some wonderful "musician" friends here that I hope I never lose contact with. And that's all just for starters. I've also made contact with people around the world who are knowledgeable about very traditional Irish music -- in the Irish language -- that I probably would never have found anywhere else or by any other means. So, if the Mudcat is the best we've got, I consider it pretty damn good. And for the thousandth time, vote for a thread with your mouse and click to leave it if you don't like it. With all the options we have on this site, I really don't see the need to be so dang picayune. Sincerely, Áine |
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29 Jun 00 - 07:15 PM (#249495) Subject: RE: Non-Music Threads... From: IvanB Aine, I see no reason for apology for your failure to label the 'Next to die...' thread with one of the qualifiers. Frankly, I've found myself frustrated by the stock qualifiers myself. And, in the context of the day, I had no doubt from your thread title what its subject would be. To the Mudcat at large: Maybe it would behoove us all to think about the titles we append to threads we start, and avoid giving them 'cutesy' or provocative titles just to lure in the unsuspecting. But, whether BS stands for 'BullShit or 'Breeze-Shootin,' it's not the proper qualifier for a thread which is serious in nature yet non-music related. |
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29 Jun 00 - 07:16 PM (#249496) Subject: RE: Non-Music Threads... From: bob jr BS stands for breeze shooting? damn i thought it stood for something way earthier than that and reading some of the links had my convinced....i learn something new about this place everyday! thanks for the info folks ...oh and by the way i like all the non-music stuff here as well i think it just adds variety and why not see how the other folks view things outside of music here? |
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29 Jun 00 - 07:39 PM (#249506) Subject: RE: Non-Music Threads... From: bbelle I've always liked bbc's stance on using the term "BS" before a thread title ... "I don't use it because I don't consider what comes out of my mouth BS." Because folk musicians have a history of being socially and politically active, there have always been threads of that type on the mudcat. There have been great debates and arguments heated to the point that some people left. And, in fact, Art Thieme started the very first totally BS (for lack of a better word right now) on "condoms." It was done tongue-in-cheek to point out the banality of certain threads (this was about 3 years ago) but it started a trend. I don't find all non-music threads offensive ... some are actually started in good fun. Unfortunately, some are started for the sole purpose of eliciting rancor among the troops. And, some are started for the sole purpose of hearing one's brains rattle. Rick's analogy is spot on. The mudcat has become a community of people who have an interest in music ... some superficially and some intensely. Fortunately, this community is no different than any other community and one can pick and choose one's friends. And not everyone is going to love everyone else. It's never been my personal goal to be loved by everyone ... but those who do love me, I would trust with my life. Rick is a prime example, along with Mick, of someone who, if the subject doesn't interest him or if he has a problem with it, largely ignores it ... a personality of which I'm envious. I'm different ... I stand and fight. Good or bad ... that's me and I'm not going to change. You may not like me ... but you will always know exactly where you stand with me. No deviousness or subterfuge, here. I will now step down from the orator's box ... moonchild
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30 Jun 00 - 01:05 AM (#249628) Subject: RE: Non-Music Threads... From: Rick Fielding Aine, what in God's name did I say in my post to indicate that I (of all people) HAD a "TEST" OF ANY KIND, for membership in Mudcat? I was explaining objectively how I saw Mudcat evolve over the two years I'd been here. My only criticism was how "flamers" attacked people. From day one I supported A MIX, rather than ALL MUSIC. At least twenty times in the last five months or so I've said HERE ON THE FORUM how much I appreciate the people AND the content. I've re-read my post several times to see how you might have interpreted what I said as being negative to people who play for fun, and I'm stumped. I suspect Joe would be as confused as I that you would think either of us would place "Mudcat value" on a Union card! Have I said something to offend you before this, and just didn't realize it? Rick |
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30 Jun 00 - 01:32 AM (#249642) Subject: RE: Non-Music Threads... From: katlaughing Rick, I think Aine was just making the point that you are one of the professionals here and that she considers herself to be non-pro, which some of us would beg to differ on. Yeah, Mrrzy...I mixed it all up...trying to keep an even keel..I almost capsized!**BG** As Max has often said, Mudcat is what we make it...we are the Mudcat....but I like the bit about a little monarchy thrown in, too....it let's Max still believe he's da Man!**BG** (luvyaMaX!) katnew&improved..noredundanciesIhope!*RBG* |
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30 Jun 00 - 02:12 AM (#249649) Subject: RE: Non-Music Threads... From: GUEST,Hilary in NZ Calm down Rick - I was just about to post this to say that you are absolutely right. I got hooked here a few months ago, then dropped out as I was [wrongfully] acused of flaming when all I thought i was doing was joining enthusiastically in the witty repartee of a thread which was particularly ropey to start with. But here i am again, and it is for the fascinating and fun conversation as much as a shared love of music. As a newcomer i don't have any problems with thread names - if they sound interesting I go there, if they end up not to be, i can depart with a click. I find I can discriminate between music/non-music threads OK - and as others have said they all seem to link in anyway. I had hunted around but couldn't find what BS meant, but, well - you just read for a while then it's all common sense really. I think it is the combination of information, conversation and humour that draws me. Choosing which thread to go on is part of the fun - like the clues of a cryptic crossword. I think the main problem with this sort of communication comes from the lack of a sense of humour. ...and I don't mean to offend anyone here!!! |
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30 Jun 00 - 02:30 AM (#249655) Subject: RE: Non-Music Threads... From: Amergin So is this thread about music or is it a nonmusic topic? |
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30 Jun 00 - 10:00 AM (#249725) Subject: RE: Non-Music Threads... From: black walnut "...a lack of a sense of humour"? Boy, do you not know me very well. I can provide references, if you like.... Perhaps some of you could reread my original note way up there at the top. It is a not, as some of you seem to think, a jab at the balance of threads, it is a simple request for better signage, which is such an easy small teeny weeny itzy bitzy thing to ask for. Will you listen to my plight? I am a very busy woman. I have 2 teenagers, a husband, several pets, a job outside the home, a garden, osteoporosis (which demands daily walks of 45 minutes at least), and several instruments which call on me to be played on occasion, and songs begging to be memorized, and a family computer in the middle of the family room. * I have a PASSION for folk music, and a growning LOVE for the blues. * So, I come to the Mudcat, and it's wonderful, for many many many many reasons. I read, I learn, I question, I laugh, I cry...all that stuff. But guess what I have to do, folks? If I want to read a thread, it's not unusual for me to print it out while I'm loading the dishwasher or changing the rabbit litter, so that I can read the thread in the subway or while I'm stirring supper. You think I can actually sometimes contribute to a thread? Not very often. Doesn't mean I'm not here listening to you. So, I just ask of ya, is it so hard to be a bit more specific in the title, for us folk on the edge of the spinning plate? It takes precious time to download over a hundred postings of something called "PUBLIC APOLOGY" to discover it's not about Neil Young. If I want to read about the abortion issue or how a capo works, I'd like to be able to decide that choice from the outside....by skimming down the topics. It's a time thing. So, I ask you again. Is it such a big thing to ask? I like it here. I came here to link up with other lovers of folk and blues. I want to be here. I don't feel new here. I know the history. I know the balance. I am just asking for what I call a 'simple courtesy'. Thanks, ~black walnut
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30 Jun 00 - 10:21 AM (#249745) Subject: RE: Non-Music Threads... From: Áine Dear Rick, Ouch! That steam comin' outta your ears is burning me all the way down here in Texas! Please watch closely as I insert foot in mouth, spank myself, and turn into an ass (albeit a cute one) after making such a stupid ASSumption. The two sentences in your message that set me off were "As more people join there will less emphasis on (traditional, as most know it) folk music. Today it is a community of folks who all LIKE music, but enjoy communicating with each other." Read it wrong, got it wrong, got hit up side the head with a stupid brick . . . I most humbly apologize for raising your blood pressure, and I assure you that you have never said anything to offend me. I was (wrongly) tarring you with the brush that I'd like to use on the folks who have complained in the past about folks who they considered "riff-raff" -- folks who were not professional musicians -- that have come to the Mudcat since the "good old days". With 20 years of theater and music performance under my belt, that kind of attitude really puts a burr under my saddle. The fact that I never got 'paid' for any of it doesn't mean that I didn't work just as hard at my craft as someone who did. Again, I'm very sorry that I upset you. Please forgive me for my trespass. -- Áine (whose face is as red as her hair this morning!) |
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30 Jun 00 - 10:35 AM (#249763) Subject: RE: Non-Music Threads... From: DougR Aine: I'm glad you posted the message clarifying your position. I couldn't for the life of me see how Rick could have upset you. Actually, I think his first post said it all. He's right. I realize (as an Ex-Texican) that we are the sensitive type and easily offended (I did get over the last part though)but Rick wrote from a perspective that many of us don't have. He's an "Old Timer." DougR |
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30 Jun 00 - 11:59 AM (#249833) Subject: RE: Non-Music Threads... From: Rick Fielding Oy am I relieved Aine! I wasn't actually mad...I just tend to use CAPS and "quotes" and exclamations! a lot. What caught me was not being criticized (cause that happens everyday while I'm trying to force people to play "F" chords, or making silly obscure jokes)....but that anyone could think I want ANY (see there I go again) exclusivity in a folk music community. I became a professional musician for only ONE reason...I couldn't do anything else well enough to earn a living. The "professional" Music Biz is so rife with hypocracy, and brown-nosing, that I wish I didn't have to deal with ANY of it. Change is inevitable, and had Mudcat stayed primarily a trad ballad discussion group, I would not have been able to make several wonderful new friends, and especially read and join in the great debates on so many topics. The "non-music" threads are where we show our personalities (good, bad and goofy) and that's where the lasting value is to me. Sorry to over-react, Aine,....that's what 10 cups of coffee will do to ya! Rick |
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30 Jun 00 - 12:21 PM (#249849) Subject: RE: Non-Music Threads... From: Wolfgang black walnut, thanks for bringing this up. It bothers me too. I open about 20% of all threads here and read less. And I don't like to be (mis)led into opening a thread which doesn't interest me. I'd love Mudcatters to use the prefixes whenever appropriate, invent your own (non music, etc.) when an appropriate prefix is lacking, be as specific in the thread title as possible, avoid (deliberately) misleading thread titles (except when your are Max and it is April Fool's day). That'd be a small effort for you and a big service for those of us who do not have as much time to spare. Wolfgang |
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30 Jun 00 - 12:26 PM (#249855) Subject: RE: Non-Music Threads... From: Áine Dear Rick, Glad we're still friends! Or should I say, I'm GLAD we're still friends!? And if you're drinking that much coffee, I can see why your caps key could get stuck. *BG* -- Áine (P.S. DougR - I guess I belong in the "Old Timer" group, too. Posted my first thread here in March of '98. My, how time flies when you're having this much fun!).
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30 Jun 00 - 12:39 PM (#249871) Subject: RE: Non-Music Threads... From: GUEST,Mrr I play no instruments but sing my heart out daily. The song I sang with Bill Sables and AllanC and Beaudangles at the Espresso Corner was the first I'd ever sang for strangers. What I like about this community is that everyone is into music in some fashion or other, and that gives all of us a sense of belonging to a community where we share an interest, which just makes it likely that we share others too. That likelihood is what leads me, at least, to start discussions that might not be musical in nature, like the Mutations one. I do try to make my headline clear, and (given the tone of this thread) will stop using BS to signal NonMusicality. Also my original question/whatever tells y'all what I'm about. I also like to print long threads to read later, but I don't do it without at least clicking in and reading the opening post. At THAT point I decide to print or not, not from just the title. If loading is taking too long I can alt-Tab over to do something else while it loads (I rarely turn on the computer JUST to 'cat around in the mud'). If the opening post bugs me too much, I click Back and go on. If it's just bugging me a little, I'll usually answer. I do, however, try to insert music into my nonmusical posts - I wanted to see what people thought about the Human Genome project so I did it as a Song Challenge. That one kind of backfired as I didn't get a good idea of what people think about the project, but I did get some great yuks! |
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30 Jun 00 - 04:34 PM (#249967) Subject: RE: Non-Music Threads... From: bbelle Aine ... I know you and Rick have worked out your semantics, but I'm going to add my .02 ... "Exclusivity" is definitely not a word I would use to describe folksingers or bluessingers or bluegrasssingers, professional or otherwise. We are an "odd" lot to be sure and very unconventional and exclusivity just doesn't sound right. My family and friends would NEVER NEVER use the words "conventional" or "exclusive" to describe me, nor would they use the word "conservative." And, unless I've missed a lot of threads, I've never seen anything that said the mudcat was only for professional musicians. Yes, Rick is a professional musician and so am I, and there are a few others, but I've never "talked" to any of them who thought the mudcat should be restricted to professionals only. In addition, we all have our own opinions about what non-musicial threads are "ok," and our opinions do not necessarily agree. What's good for the goose is not always good for the gander, so to speak. Whether you or anyone else likes it or not, there are a lot of people who are attracted to the mudcat because of the music and they come in for the music. And, in fact, the opening page says it is a site dedicated to blues and folk music. If you or anyone else, myself included, wants to start a non-music thread, have at it, but don't be offended when one of these individuals takes issue with it and voices their opinion about this being a "music" site. Perhaps now is the time to change the verbage on the front page a bit. I belong to three other music forum sites and I can tell you they are monitored regularly and fiercely, to be sure contributors keep to the music. These sites publish disclaimers about what will and what will not be allowed. I'm not say that I totally like that style, either. I'm too much of a free-spirit to have someone dictate to me what I can and cannot do. The mudcat has never been that way, so in a sense it may be misleading to some. I wish I could say "live and let live," but it ain't never going to happen. As Rick stated earlier, this is a community, and it's filled with all kinds of opinions ... moonchild
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30 Jun 00 - 04:52 PM (#249975) Subject: RE: Non-Music Threads... From: black walnut ....and some opinions seem to be elbowed out of the elevator. ~'nut |
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30 Jun 00 - 04:55 PM (#249977) Subject: RE: Non-Music Threads... From: Big Mick I am a musician. I love the music, and I love interpreting songs and yarns. I occasionally visit other sites, but never for long. They are too dry and restrictive. You want to know why we folkie/blues types love our Mudcat so?? It is because our music is about the people. It is about their problems, struggles, joys, victories, ass whuppin's given and taken, cries had, laughs shared.......and on and on. Ours is the tradition of the story shared. Ours is the music of love lost and found. This is a gathering place for those of our ilk to have conversations that are not exclusively about the music, but about the events that spawn and the people who create the music. And in someways, it is similar to a house with many rooms and a different conversation in each. If you walk into one and are not comfortable or interested, you can walk out and go to another. The commom bond is music and respect for others. I guess I qualify as an old timer here, and I have only seen the place blow up seriously once. That was when one group tried to impose its will of what this place should look like on all others. I repeat, the beauty is in the ability to take part in what you like and leave the others to their own devices. No one is hurt that way. Testament to how solid is our foundation is lies in the fact that we survived all that and our still here. Thanks be. Big Mick |
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30 Jun 00 - 05:08 PM (#249985) Subject: RE: Non-Music Threads... From: Áine Amen, Brother Mick! -- Áine |
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30 Jun 00 - 05:18 PM (#249993) Subject: RE: Non-Music Threads... From: DougR Aine: 1998! That sure makes you an "Old Timer" alright. You are a year ahead of me. DougR |
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30 Jun 00 - 05:29 PM (#250000) Subject: RE: Non-Music Threads... From: black walnut I love the imagery, Big Mick. That was beautifully put. I generally like the house. I'm just saying that I would appreciate knowing which room I'm headed for. I don't see why it's so hard to keep the doors open (ie. label the threads more clearly) so that I don't head to the linen closet when I'm looking for the fridge. "Oh, just peek in and you'll know right away", you say. And I say, "It's a big house, and I don't have much time for peeking around! I'm not afraid to peek around. I do it all the time. I just would prefer to have the doors open. Or colour coded. Or have see-through windows." I've said it earlier...it's all about time. Some of you here feel the same as I do about this ....thanks for voicing your agreement. It's kind of nice to know I'm not all alone out here in the hallway. Now, will I choose Door # 1, or Door # 2, or Door # 3, or.... ~'nut
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30 Jun 00 - 08:31 PM (#250064) Subject: RE: Non-Music Threads... From: Art Thieme Say, what? Condom? Me? So it's all my fault, huh?! Whatever. San Andreas (alias Art) |
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30 Jun 00 - 09:02 PM (#250069) Subject: RE: Non-Music Threads... From: bbelle No, Art, I didn't say it was your fault, but it did set a new tone for the mudcat. In some respects made it a more personal, friendly place ... moonchild |
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30 Jun 00 - 09:07 PM (#250074) Subject: RE: Non-Music Threads... From: katlaughing Black Walnut...one of the things that may make it easier for you and others, in case you aren't familiar with it, if that you can go to the Quick Links, on the main thread page, click on the drop down menu and choose "New Messages Since Last Visit"...that should bring up any new postings that you haven't seen. You can also Trace a thread that you are esp. interested in and they will be updated automatically, on your Personal Page, for quick and fast viewing. kat |
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01 Jul 00 - 02:06 PM (#250123) Subject: RE: Non-Music Threads... From: Rick Fielding This is really old news, but for what it's worth, Sandy Paton JOKINGLY suggested the "B.S." designation....and then told us several times he wished he'd never mentioned it. One of the undisputed truths about Mudcat is that it DOES take up a lotta time. I've sworn off virtually all TV in order to indulge my "catting", and yah, sometimes it seems like we have as much Soap Opera stuff here as on the tube. Difference is, that we're real people, and the endings are less predictable...hence often fascinating. The "personality" parts of the Cat (as opposed to the technical music info) are what allow us to see certain behaviours over the course of a few months (or years) and then decide whether we want to know someone in the flesh. For example: The postings of a West Coast Mudcatter, intrigued me for a number of reasons. They were always sensible, articulate, often humourous (in a self-deprecating way, which indicated no pomposity) and helpful, when needed. In a nutshell, I really liked the picture this Mudcatter consistently painted. Never thought I'd get to meet them, but when I did....what a treat! It took some effort, but the reward (for me, anyway) could be a nice long-term friendship. That's the benefit of the "B.S." info, for me. Consequently, I can't bring myself to label something "B.S." just because it's not directly related to music. Wolfgang: I mamed a thread : "That Dirty Little Coward". Would you call that misleading? Rick |
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01 Jul 00 - 03:07 PM (#250148) Subject: RE: Non-Music Threads... From: Joe Offer Ah, well... I've learned to stay out of certain threads, and it's made me much happier. It kind of seems to me that the thread labels and the "BS" designation don't help a lot, because they're often misunderstood. Some people seem to use "BS" to designate anything that doesn't deal directly with lyrics, and I've found some fascinating music-related discussions in the "BS" category. I think I'd like to see Max dump the designators completely, and just have a suggestion on the thread-creation page that people work very hard to think up descriptive thread titles. But I've given up fighting about all that. Fighting just seemed to make things worse. -Joe Offer- Oh, and just to clarify - I'm not a card-carrying musician. I'm pretty good at singing camp songs and telling stories. Otherwise, I'm just a guy who likes folk music who can't play a guitar and can't memorize lyrics and sometimes has trouble getting the tunes straight. But I have a good time, nonetheless. |
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01 Jul 00 - 03:10 PM (#250150) Subject: RE: Non-Music Threads... From: Áine Dear Joe, Just to clarify - *BG* I should have, of course, included you in my apology addressed to Rick. Oh dear, I feel those long ears and tail growing again! -- Áine |
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01 Jul 00 - 09:32 PM (#250351) Subject: RE: Non-Music Threads... From: Big Mick Yep, Rick, I am right there with you on the TV bit. Pretty well had to swear off it for the 'Cat. The other point that Rick makes in his post is extremely important. I have heard it said that you don't really know the person on the other end. I would agree with Rick and submit that by virtue of folks posting over a period of time, you come to know them very well. That same West Coast 'Catter that Rick refers to was brought into my home sight unseen. As was Bill Sables. I got no surprises, and knew that I wouldn't. I knew these folks very well on the basis of their posts for a long period of time. I am NOT suggesting that one should take any 'catter into their home, just that the same rules apply here as anywhere. The way in which we share here causes us to know one another in a very personal way, unless one is not very perceptive. Big Mick |
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02 Jul 00 - 01:36 AM (#250469) Subject: RE: Non-Music Threads... From: Rick Fielding 'Course I knew from the first time I saw Mick's "G" chord, that we'd be buddies....... but on a serious note (and I hope ya don't mind me using you as an example Mick) when I first joined and was soaking up Mudcatters' contributions, it was fascinating to see folks' takes on some of the issues of the day. Most of Mick's posts were passionate AND balanced. Never saw any heavy-duty dogma (other than a desire for BOTH sides of an issue to be heard) get in the way. Catspaw as well (despite the rampant silliness), and several others. Some of the folks took a little longer to feel comfortable with, but have proven great additions to my life. During a particulary rough time for one Catter, I was even preparing for the possibility of a trip to Ohio. This for someone I'd never met...other than on line. That really blew my mind. Had it been only us sharing our opinions on music, some of this might have happened, but it would have taken years......and who's got that kind of time these days? Rick |
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02 Jul 00 - 04:26 PM (#250671) Subject: RE: Non-Music Threads... From: black walnut thanks kat. i knew those tricks already, and they are timesavers. so some of you have sacrificed tv for the 'cat? tough choice. well, maybe i'll sacrifice my teenagers. (just kidding, my dear ones, if you happen to be reading this, in which case, what are you doing wasting your time on the computer when you should be cleaning your rooms, or reading a good book, nag, nag, nag....) ~'nut |
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02 Jul 00 - 04:49 PM (#250677) Subject: RE: Non-Music Threads... From: bbelle black walnut ... I'm sitting in my father's den looking out at the 100-y/o pecan trees in his backyard and wondering if I should change my name to "pecan."
I hope, from reading Rick and Mick's posts, you can see how this community has evolved. I've been one of the most vocal about nonsense threads, etc., yet I have traveled thousands of miles to attend mudcat gatherings or to just meet a certain mudcatter. (I'm single, have the time, and the funds
If anyone, and I mean anyone, had told me 3 years ago that I would ever meet in-person any of these cyber people called mudcatters, I would have thought them nuts (no pun intended ... grin). The difference in this community is that it's far and wide, instead of bound by local square mile boundaries.
This is why there are non-music threads. Music is most definitely what brought all of us together ... but there is ilfe outside of music (did I say that?) and we want to share those experiences, as well. We could telephone each other, but that gets expensive (although some of us do). Email is great, especially if you want to keep something private. But posting about it allows one to share the joy/sadness/whatever, with the community, if one chooses to do that.
And, lest anyone think otherwise, I am not manic, nor have I changed my position on certain forum subjects. I do, however, value highly those friendships that have become a part of my life by way of the Mudcat Cafe. And, I am smart enough to know that, without the occasional foray into the whimsical, these friendships may not have happened.
moonchild
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02 Jul 00 - 09:21 PM (#250767) Subject: RE: Non-Music Threads... From: black walnut dear moon-child pecan, i fear that you and many others read this thread as a debate about the validity of non-music threads. i didn't say that at all here. i just and only asked for clearer signage. all and all. finito. i asked it for the sake of the really busy people here who are as much a part of the mudcat as those who have the time and inclination to come here to chat daily/hourly/minutely. for the sake of those of us who would like to have a clearer sense of what's behind the doors. because i think it's both considerate and easy to do, imho. and so that if i really really really want to read a non-music thread some day, i don't have to spend time opening all those boring music threads to find one: ) hey, i've started and contributed to BS threads, so don't everybody look at me as the big meanie sourpuss 'cat. oh, i tried to respond to your headache thread, moonchild, but my computer kept stalling. what a headache... ~'nut
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02 Jul 00 - 09:28 PM (#250770) Subject: RE: Non-Music Threads... From: black walnut hahahahaha, silly me! i see that i DID say something on the headache thread..... i'm losing it, pecan. old age.... ~'nut |
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02 Jul 00 - 09:32 PM (#250772) Subject: RE: Non-Music Threads... From: bbelle ~'nut ... Nah!!! No one thinks you're a big meanie sourpuss 'cat ... and if they do, pass the heat my way ... I'm getting used to it ...OY! ... in a big way ... pecan |
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02 Jul 00 - 09:52 PM (#250784) Subject: RE: Non-Music Threads... From: catspaw49 Another classic... It was gettin' kinda' boring til I got to the part about Aine spanking herself and then I was hoping to find a way to involve myself with that particular vision, but alas....................Listen Aine, if nuthin' elase, could you send pictures? Spaw |
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03 Jul 00 - 01:02 AM (#250887) Subject: RE: Non-Music Threads... From: Áine Dearest 'Spaw, For you, darlin', anything! Now, would you like a 8 X 10 color glossy, and should I autograph it, and where? -- Áine (who's really missed her saggy assed Galapagos tortoise lately...*BG*) |
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04 Jul 00 - 08:51 AM (#251564) Subject: RE: Non-Music Threads... From: black walnut I'm outa this thread. Carry on.... 'nut |