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01 Sep 00 - 11:28 AM (#289255) Subject: Ladino Songs From: GUEST,Annraoi Does anyone have references to CDs, Tapes Sites featuring songs in this language ? Annraoi Click for Ladino Hanukkah Songs |
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01 Sep 00 - 11:48 AM (#289268) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ladino Songs From: rabbitrunning I dogpile searched it with "ladino songs" and goto.com came back with several. This looked like the best one, at a casual glance. |
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01 Sep 00 - 12:17 PM (#289303) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ladino Songs From: Wolfgang I'm curious. Following rabbitrunning's link one finds that Ladino is a language of the jews of Spain. I knew Ladino as a Northern Italy language of the Rumantsch language family. Are these two different languages having the same name, are they related or even identical? Wolfgang |
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01 Sep 00 - 12:27 PM (#289314) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ladino Songs From: Alice Annraoi, the Zemerl site that rabitrunning linked to should give you the best resource on the internet for Ladino. Wolfgang, I learned that Ladino was the language that came from a mixture of Spanish and Hebrew. I didn't know there was a Ladino of Italy. Tell us more. |
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01 Sep 00 - 12:38 PM (#289322) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ladino Songs From: Wolfgang Rumantsch (Rhaethian, Retorumantsch, Rhaeto-Romance) is a Latin based language (actually seven slightly different) spoken in a few very remote valleys of Switserland (five languages) and also in very few alpine valleys of Italy, where it is called Ladin(o) or Friulian. Wolfgang |
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01 Sep 00 - 02:36 PM (#289420) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ladino Songs From: GUEST,Annraoi Thanks for your help. Will investigate the "Zemerl" site. But if anyone has personal experience of this tradition, I would be glad to hear from them. Annraoi |
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01 Sep 00 - 02:41 PM (#289425) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ladino Songs From: Jim Dixon I'm glad we have such knowledgeable people at Mudcat. I would have thought "Ladino" was a misspelling of "Latino"! |
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01 Sep 00 - 03:03 PM (#289445) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ladino Songs From: Turtle A New-York-based a cappella ensemble, the Western Wind, put out a CD of Sephardic songs called Mazal Bueno, I think in the early 90s. Some of those songs are in Ladino. I think there may be some songs in Ladino on some of their other recordings as well. |
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01 Sep 00 - 03:09 PM (#289449) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ladino Songs From: Turtle Western Wind's website is www.westernwind.org. (Not up to speed on clickies, yet, sorry!) They have a Judaica series of 6 recordings, of which Mazal Bueno is one. I'd be surprised if the other 5 didn't also include some Sephardic songs, and maybe some in Ladino. You could also contact them for more information--I did an ensemble singing workshop with them once, and they are very friendly & down-to-earth folks. It seems to me that one or more of them may specialize in Jewish or even in Sephardic music, but I don't remember who. |
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01 Sep 00 - 03:19 PM (#289457) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ladino Songs From: Alice Annraoi, there was a documentary film on Ladino that I saw last year on PBS. It was made by a young man whose family had been part of the Jewish community that had left Spain for the Isle of Rhodes and then moved during world war II to the Los Angeles area. I'll see if I can track it down. You may be able to get it on video.
I know one verse of a Ladino song I learned from sheet music my friend Suzanne. But, like she says, it is hard to learn from written music, because like Arabic and Flamenco and many other types of folk music, you have to hear the rhythm and the way the sounds are made that are part of the music. She is Jewish, a cantor, but not Ladino. As she says, notes alone don't make it. It's part language, part music, part culture, really hard to re-create Ladino if you aren't part of the culture. That said, I can sing it and make a sound file if you can hear MP3 or MP2. Alice
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01 Sep 00 - 04:35 PM (#289503) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ladino Songs From: Alice Here is the film: ISLAND OF ROSES: THE JEWS OF RHODES IN LOS ANGELES USA, 1995, video, 55 min., color, English, Italian, French & Ladino w/Eng. subtitles. Director: Gregori Viens.
You can find that film and more films at this site:Jewishfilm.com -- The Jewish Film Archive online Alice |
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01 Sep 00 - 04:46 PM (#289511) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ladino Songs From: Alice here is a source for the video:
Island of Roses: The Jews of Rhodes in Los Angeles
SOURCE: Gregori Viens, 333 South Bedford Drive, Beverly Hills, CA 90212 Tel; 310/552-7902. OR $40 from Sephardic Society in New York City, Ph. 212.496.2173 TEXT: Interviews with the last surviving Rhodeslis who live in Los Angeles and a look at their Sephardic traditions, Ladino dialect, and the traditions they have passed on to their children and grandchildren. |
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01 Sep 00 - 08:00 PM (#289608) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ladino Songs From: Bill Hahn//\\ Check out the web site of Robin Greenstein. She does, among other things, Ladino music--music of the Sephardim. I had the pleasure of interviewing her a while back for our radio program (Traditions) on WFDU (www.wfdu.fm). Iam not sure how to give you the website address. Perhaps use a search engine with her name. Another good source is Joe Elias 79 Harwood Rd. Jamesburg NJ 08831. No e mail address available. He has a CD out with his ensemble calledf LADINO LIVES. A teacher of this music and, I surmise, part of a diminishing breed. Bill Hahn |
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02 Sep 00 - 12:09 AM (#289773) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ladino Songs From: GUEST,Sue Harris If you go to jewishmusic.com, and do a search for "ladino" in both "CD's and cassettes" and "music books", you will find LOTS of Ladino offerings! Many of the cassette and CD listings offer sound clips, so you can check it out first. |
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02 Sep 00 - 12:28 AM (#289782) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ladino Songs From: Alice Hey, Sue Harris, thanks for that link, it's a gold mine. That six CD set of ladino masterpieces looks especially great. |
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02 Sep 00 - 03:58 AM (#289820) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ladino Songs From: Joe Offer Aw, I was just going to link to www.jewishmusic.com. They've got a great selection of recordings AND songbooks. Click here to get to their Sephardic recordings. I sepecially like the recordings of Judy Frankel. The site also is very generous about providing sound clips of the music they have for sale. We've had some discusions of Ladino songs here. Click on Swallow Song or Tres Hermanikas, for example. If you put Ladino or Sephardic in the SuperSearch box, you'll probably find more. -Joe Offer- |
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02 Sep 00 - 09:29 AM (#289867) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ladino Songs From: Susan of DT I'll probably see someone who sings in Ladino (Adaya Henis) next weekend and will ask her for recommendations for you. There have been two major subgroups of Jews for the last few hundred years - the Ashkenazi in eastern Europe and the Sephardic Jews in southern Europe/Mediteranean area. The Ashkenazi mostly spoke Yiddish (a German-related dialect with bits of lots of other eastern European languages) written in Hebrew characters. The Sephardim mostly spoke Ladino (a Spanish-related dialect with bits of other southern European languages and perhaps some Arabic thrown in) written in Hebrew characters. I would not be surprised to find Ladino in Italy |
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02 Sep 00 - 06:48 PM (#290056) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ladino Songs From: GUEST,Annraoi Susan (of DT) sunce you have a captive practitioner of Sephardic music, could you please ask her if she has any examples of language mixing in the lyrics. Thanks all of you for your support. Some of the recommended sites are really terrific. Annraoi |
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02 Sep 00 - 09:43 PM (#290127) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ladino Songs From: Alice Annraoi, do you have this website? THE LADINO LANGUAGE
I was taught that Ladino is now considered a language of its own, not just a mixture of languages. So, Ladino songs are not really macaronic the way a part Gaelic part English song would be. The lyrics would be all in one language, Ladino. Alice |
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03 Sep 00 - 02:37 PM (#290354) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ladino Songs From: GUEST,Annraoi Alice, thanks for the additional reference. The Macaronics comes in where the Ladino lyrics are mixed with lyrics n Hebrew, Turkish, Greek or any other language met with in the Sephardic Mediterranean diaspora. The use of loanwords in Ladino itself does not of itself constitute code switching / macaronics. Every language borrows - sometimes quite extensively - from other languages. Annraoi |
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03 Sep 00 - 03:05 PM (#290362) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ladino Songs From: Alice Yes, I understand that. It was interesting to see the Ladino Language site I previously linked to also links to a dictionary. It will be interesting to see what phrases may be included in Ladino songs that are not already part of the Ladino mix. It was interesting to see the examples of very old Spanish words that are preserved in the Ladino language, and also the pronunciations that have common connections in places in New Mexico, where early Spanish settlers brought the language of old Spain. |
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05 Sep 00 - 02:11 PM (#291500) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ladino Songs From: GUEST,Simon For the largest selction of "Ladino" music on Cd, cassette, and video check out "HATIKVAH MUSIC" at: http://www.hatikvahmusic.com/ladino1.html Also carries the largest selction of Yiddish, Klezmer, Cantorial, Yemenite music available. |
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05 Sep 00 - 06:48 PM (#291650) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ladino Songs From: Susan of DT I think Adaya has some macaronic songs with Hebrew or Aramaic thrown in. She has e-mail, I'll see if I can get her to look at mudcat and this thread. |
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05 Sep 00 - 08:21 PM (#291724) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ladino Songs From: GUEST,Annraoi Susan, I would appreciate that very much. Simon, Thanks for your reference. Very helpful indeed. Annraoi |
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06 Sep 00 - 02:19 AM (#291914) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ladino Songs From: Peter Kasin There is a very good medieval music group called Ensemble Alcatraz, with a singer named Susan Rode Morris, who have recorded some very old Sephardic songs in Ladino. You might want to look for them in classical music stores. |
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28 Apr 02 - 11:47 PM (#700165) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ladino Songs From: Bob Bolton G'day, A local (east coast of Australia) singer, Helen Rivero, specialises in Sephardic songs ... many of them in Ladino. I love her renditions and her sense of the theatre of language. Reading some of the lyrics (written in Roman characters) the language seems to be strongly reminiscent of Provençal ... or a generalised Mediterranean 'Romance' language. I suspect that, before modern boundaties became poltically defined, there would have been gradations of common language right along the northern coast of the Mediterranean. Regards, Bob Bolton |
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29 Apr 02 - 08:23 AM (#700323) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ladino Songs From: Wilfried Schaum In discussing the structures of both Jewish language families the term "macaronic" should be avoided. We have the Eastern Jewish language, Ashkenazi (= Yidddish), and Western Jewish, Sephardi (= Ladino). The basic grammatical structures of both languages are Spanish and German; instead of a part of the nouns and verbs Hebrew expressions are used, but transformed in their pronounciation to the average Spanish or German usage. This may sound funny to stranger's ears, but nevertheless it is the way of the recipient language. Note that the invariables of the respective languages, i. e. prepositions, adverbs and paricles remain Spanish or German and are not substituted by their Hebrew correspondents. Both languages preserve the state of late medieval Spanish and Middle High German. In Germany the term "macaronic" is used for a certain kind of academic funny poetry only, where nouns of a foreign language are imported and transformed to the needs of the receiving language. Fine German example: Nachtwaechteri veniunt cum spiessibus atque laternis, which could sound in English: Nightwatcheri veniunt cum spearibus atque lanternis (Night watchers are coming with spears and lanterns) In both European Jewish languages a macaronic effect is not intended, but it is the way the languages are working. Wilfried |
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29 Apr 02 - 10:16 PM (#700872) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ladino Songs From: GUEST,Annraoi Wilfried I would beg to disagree with you here. The term "macaronic" also known as "code shifting" is not always used for comic effect. The phenomenon is to be found in every situation where two, or indeed more, languages find themselves co-existing. At its most crude it consists of merely substituting a word in one language for its equivalent in another. At its most sophisticated, the two languages are interwoven in a structured way both in terms of meter and rhyme. This form of macaronic verse requires a deep knowledge of the languages concerned in both the composer and his audience and betrays a sophistication in language use that has gone unappreciated; the main reason being, in my opinion, that monoglot speakers of the individual languages see this verse form as a "pollution" of their native tradition. It has a long and honoured history, some of the earliest examples occurring in the Latin-Greek macaronic verse of pre-Christian Rome. The earliest example in a European vernacular is a 6th century Irish poem in Irish and Latin. Annraoi |
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30 Apr 02 - 05:01 AM (#700980) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ladino Songs From: GUEST,An Pluiméir Ceolmhar Enjoyed reading this thread, and apologies for a drifting question, but I'd rather keep it here than launch a separate thread which could evolve into yet another dialogue of the deaf about current events in what we know with a certain unconscious irony as the Holy Land. Having long been attracted to multilingual wordplay, I was fascinated as a student by the very idea of Yiddish. I took a course on Yiddish while spending a year studying German in Germany, but it was a descriptive course rather than one designed to impart an ability to speak the language, and I was discouraged by the fact that Yiddish was written in Hebrew characters and that anyway one would really want to have a fairly good idea of both the slavic languages and Hebrew to make sense of it. Some of the books which I bought at the time, particularly collections of Jewish jokes and sayings by Salcia Landmann, refer to the Ostjuden who are represented as somewhat exotic. I could never figure out if this term refers to unassimilated Jews from the Pale of Settlement who might seem exotic to more assimilated Ashkenazim in Germany, or to Sephardim whose "territory" would extend to the area which we now call the Middle East. From the context it seemed to refer to the latter. Can anyone help in clarifying this? |
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30 Apr 02 - 05:51 AM (#700991) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ladino Songs From: Wilfried Schaum Annraoi, d'accord - you're right speaking about bilingual or polyglottal poetry. I was speaking about language structure and patterns.
An Pluiméir Ceolmhar, Wilfried |
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30 Apr 02 - 07:08 AM (#701022) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ladino Songs From: GUEST,An Pluiméir Ceolmhar Vielen Dank (or should that be "dank"?), Wilfried, you've set my mind at rest after more than thirty years of wandering. Good old Goethe, he used to be one of my big heroes, I might have guessed he'd be intrigued by Yiddish. I can still remember the buzz I got the first time I went to Strasbourg and stood in front of the Cathedral on an Easter Sunday morning. Instead of just admiring the cathedral I was imagining Goethe standing where I was, seeing himself as Faust and admiring Gretchen at the door. Without wishing to give offence to any French sensibilities, I've always perceived Strasbourg as being at least as German as it's French because of the Goethe connection, and it is also a major Jewish centre, which makes it all the more appropriate as a seat of Europeanness. It's a pity that Chirac has been so dogged in invoking this history in support of a nationalist assertion of power to keep the European Parliament meeting there in particularly inappropriate working conditions. James Joyce, as I'm sure you know, was also fascinated by Yiddish, and more generally in Jews and their culture. So it's nice that the two of them should be coupled in the well-known reverse-Irish joke about the English foreman on a building site sneering at a Paddy labourer that he wouldn't know the difference between a joist and a girder. "Of course I do", replied the Irishman, "Joyce wrote Ulysses and Goethe wrote Faust". Sorry for the meandering thread drift, am I a reincarnation of the wandering goy? |
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04 May 02 - 07:04 AM (#704157) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ladino Songs From: Wilfried Schaum Annraoi,
my post of April 30 must be revised. Macaronic as "code shifting" does not meet the true sense. It is only connected with poetry. This kind was founded in 15th century in Italy and is based on Latin with vernacular words with correct but abstruse termination; later on it was adopted in several modern European languages (see my example of April 29).
An Pluiméir Ceolmhar, thanks or vielen Dank for your post, especially the joke about the sophisticated Irish worker. I regret that such a fine pun can't be translated into German. Wilfried |
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17 Feb 12 - 12:03 AM (#3309867) Subject: Avre Tu Puerta Cerrada (Ladino folk song) From: Genie Avre Tu Puerta Cerrada (Ladino folk song) |
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17 Feb 12 - 06:06 AM (#3309952) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ladino Songs From: GUEST,Gerry There was some discussion upthread about songs that switch back and forth between languages. One beautiful if weird example is Fel Shara, parts of which are in 5 different languages, switching from one to another in the middle of a line. The five languages are Ladino, French, English, and I'm not sure what the other two are - maybe Italian and Arabic. I'd love to know how it came to be that way. |
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17 Feb 12 - 07:52 AM (#3309983) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ladino Songs From: Jack Campin There is a North African Jewish singer/oudplayer who visited Edinburgh a few years ago who has a quite magical act that uses that mix of languages. Maybe he wrote or adapted that? |
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17 Feb 12 - 09:13 AM (#3310010) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ladino Songs From: Jack Campin Remembered his name: Simon Elbaz. See him if you get the chance. |
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17 Feb 12 - 01:23 PM (#3310141) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ladino Songs From: Q (Frank Staplin) Put Sephardic in filter to bring up other threads. Not to be confused with the Latin American use of the term Ladino (Guatemala, etc.) |
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17 Feb 12 - 05:13 PM (#3310277) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ladino Songs From: GUEST,Gerry Thanks, Jack, I'll keep an eye out for Simon Elbaz. I have two recordings of Fel Shara, neither one mentions him. One recording says nothing at all about the song. The other is by KlezRoym, and the liner notes say, "Fel Shara is a traditional Sephardic love song that effortlessly blends five different languages (Ladino, Italian, French, English and Arabic). The languages shift in mid-phrase, switching between English and French or Italian and Arabic from one word to the next. The song is a perfect example of how both the music and language of the Spanish Jews came to absorb, over the centuries, the musical traditions and languages of the different countries where they settled." |
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18 Feb 12 - 01:40 AM (#3310405) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ladino Songs From: Genie Thanks for that clarification and suggestion, Q. |
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31 Dec 21 - 08:49 AM (#4130571) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ladino Songs From: Felipa more re "Fel Shara", which is multilingual: " This a Sephardic Turkish "Joke-Song".(A Cabaret Song) The text is a mixt of Arabic..Italian..French..English and Ladino. There is a story that a group of sailors were sitting around a table in a bar and each of them added a part of the song in their native tongue. Arabic: Fel shara canet betet masha/shata metni/tedrabini/kitir/tehebini/alambiki/ashtanaki Italian: la signorina/la sua facia/volevo parlar/perche'/totta la notte French: aux beaux yeaux noirs/qui eclairait le boulevard/a la gare/en reponse a mon bonsoir/il n'y a pas lieu de nous conquerir/et meme jusq'au lever du jour/pour le voeu de notre amour English: because her father/ombrella/my dear/ and if you want/and every morning/ Ladino: Como la luna/y con su../ kuando te amo It is sung to the tune of the traditional Turkish "Uskadara.'" SOURCE https://zemerl.org/songs/Love |