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19 Sep 00 - 07:05 AM (#300526) Subject: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'? From: paddymac During the period involving of the US invasion of Mexico, there were a number of men, mostly Irish, who deserted from the American Army and joined the Mexican army. They became know as "Los San Patricios". Tom Berenger did a movie about them a couple of years ago, titled "One man's Hero". Primarily an atrillery brigade, many of them were captured at the Battle of Churubusco Convent, and several hung by Gen. Winfield Scott as the US flag went up over Mexico City. Scott's dramatic hanging of the men was considered at the time as "statement" largely designed to boost his posture in his campaign for the presidency. Fortunately, his campaign failed. Los San Patricio's are well loved in Mexican history, but virtually unknown in US history. Not surprising, but sad. I have been trying to find a song about them, but have had no luck at all. If any 'catter knows of a song about the San Patricios, I'd grateful for your help. |
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19 Sep 00 - 07:39 AM (#300536) Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'? From: McGrath of Harlow As you say.they are honoured in Mexico. The Zapatistas today have a San Patricio Battalion |
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19 Sep 00 - 07:45 AM (#300539) Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'? From: McGrath of Harlow And here is a site in Connemara telling about them. |
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19 Sep 00 - 09:43 AM (#300617) Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'? From: Big Mick Thanks for starting this one. I have long meant to do some research on this group, and you have given me the starting point. I appreciate it. Mick |
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19 Sep 00 - 10:59 AM (#300664) Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'? From: paddymac Here's a piece from my "Today In Irish History" file about the San Patricios. 20 Aug 1847 The US Army of invasion overwhelmed the defending Mexican army and captured the Churubusco Convent. Seventy-two members of the "Battalia San Patricio" were captured, including their leader, Col. Frank Reilly. The San Patricios were predominantly Irish-born catholics who had crossed over from the American army. Less than a month after their capture, thirty of the San Patricios were hung by General Winfield Scott as they were made to watch the storming of Chapultepec castle by US forces. (Christenson, 1998 @ 203-4) U.S. President Ulysses S. Grant, then a Lieutenant, was with the invading army and referred to the battle in his Personal Memoir as "the severest battle fought in the Valley of Mexico." He went on to remark that "some of the [Mexican] gunners that stood their ground were deserters [the San Partricio's] from General Taylor's army on the Rio Grande." |
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20 Sep 00 - 12:24 AM (#301194) Subject: Lyr Add: LOS SAN PATRICIOS (Chris Pace)^^ From: Seamus Kennedy LOS SAN PATRICIOS (Chris Pace 1998 Melody: The Alamo)
Driven from Ireland by famine and England’s cruel Crown,
Hey, up! Yankee Doodle!
St. Patrick's Battalion, 500 of Erin’s brave sons
Hey up! Zachary Taylor!
Monterrey, Matamoras, Churubusco, they fought Uncle Sam.
Hey, up! Captain Riley! |
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20 Sep 00 - 09:24 AM (#301302) Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'? ^^ From: McGrath of Harlow LOS SAN PATRICIOS Chris Pace 1998 (Melody: The Alamo)
Driven from Ireland by famine
Hey, up! Yankee Doodle!
St. Patrick'e Battalion,
Hey up! Zachary Taylor!
Monterrey, Matamoros, Churrabusco,
Hey, up! Captain Riley! |
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20 Sep 00 - 10:19 AM (#301349) Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'? From: GUEST Seamus, Kevin - Thanks! It both amazes and saddens me that the story of the San Patricios is not better known. I found the following in a book called "The U.S. - Mexican War" by Carol & Thomas Christensen; Companion to the Public Televuision Series, Bay Books, S.F.; 1998 by KERA-TV, Ft Worth/Denton. ISBN 0-912333-44-8: @158 Duplicate messages deleted. --JoeClone |
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20 Sep 00 - 10:54 AM (#301368) Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'? From: GUEST,paddymac Let me try this again - it looks like I lost my cookie. Thanks Seamus and Kevin for the song. Cant wait to give it a try with the lads. Here are more notes from the Christensen book cited above. San Patricios Notes from Christensen: @158 "Mexican Generals had been encouraging deserters form the US Army ever since Matamoros. The US deserters who formed the San Patricio Battalion had drilled with Santa Anna at San Luis Potosi and now fought well against their former comrades. Wrote US solider Samuel Chamberlain 'The Mexicans had a heavy battery of three guns, manned by Irish deserters from our Army. These desperadoes were organized as a battalion known as the Battalia San Patricio, or Legion of Saint Patrick; the commander was the notorious Reilly, who ranked as a Colonel in the Mexican Army. A beautiful green silk banner waved over their heads; on it glistened a silver cross and a golden harp, embroidered by the hands of the fair nuns of San Luis Potosi. The deserters pitched their shells into every part of the field, some bursting in the road a good mile in our rear." @203 "Among the Mexican troops at the convent [Churubusco], none fought with more desperation than the two companies of soldiers from the San Patricio Battalion. They had fought well in other battles. John S.D. Eisenhower says, 'The San patricio battalion of American deserters, who knew that they would be hanged if they were captured, really stiffened the back-bone of Mexican resistance… and brought about a more serious battle than Scott had any reason to expect. It was expensive. Scott couldn't spare a man in his campaign. He was now down to about 8,000 effective troops, alone, in a foreign country. Finally, after nearly three hours of savage fighting, the US forces overwhelmed the convent. Seventy-two San Patricios, including Captain Riley, were taken prisoner." " 'It was with much difficulty that the American soldiers could be prevented from bayoneting these miscreants on the spot. So deep was their indignation against them.' George Kendall, Ed. New Orleans Picayune" @204 "Less than a month after the Battle of Churubusco, thirty of the captured US deserters from the San Patricio Battalion watched the US storming of the Castle of Chapultapec with ropes around their necks. It was the last image they would see. General Luis Garfias provides a Mexican perspective: 'The North American Army acted correctly from the point of view of military law. From the Mexican point of view, we use another criterion. We see a group who, for religious and political ideas, join the Mexicans and are hung… We understand that the decision of the North American army is correct. But Mexico remembers with respect because they were men who gave their lives for Mexico." ^^ |
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20 Sep 00 - 03:28 PM (#301569) Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'? From: Seamus Kennedy Kevin, thanks for formatting the song for me. I actually did all the stuff (brackets and br) and it didn't show up. I wonder why? Anyway, the song was given to me by a singer-songwriter from Alaska called Chris Pace, and it's a darn fine one too. All the best Seamus |
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20 Sep 00 - 05:05 PM (#301652) Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'? From: McGrath of Harlow I'm glad this song was written by an American.
One interesting point about Santa Ana and Zachary Taylor is that, though Santa Ana lost and Zachary Taylor won the day, when it came to the sea shanties, it was more common, as I've heard, to put it the other way round. (Though you often get people singing Santy Ano correcting it to the historically accurate version.)
Any Mexican songs about any of this? |
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20 Sep 00 - 11:51 PM (#301965) Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'? From: Joe Offer This is a great song, but it really bugs be because I heard a lot about Los San Patricios sometime in the last two weeks, and I can't remember where I heard it. Seamus, do you mention them on one of your excellent CD's I've been listening to? Seamus, when you past text into a message box here, the HTML tags (like <br>) must be visible to you in the posting box before you hit the "submit" button. If you can't see the tags, they ain't there. If that doesn't make sense, I am open for private HTML counseling sessions (or you could read the Mudcat HTML Guide). -Joe Offer- |
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24 Dec 00 - 12:14 PM (#362754) Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'? From: richardw Joe; Have you been listening to Tim O'Brian on his "Crossing" CD? He has a song there about John Riley, the Colonel. We rented the movie the other night, just by chance. Not bad. So many good stories out there that are not usually told. Richard Wright |
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24 Dec 00 - 03:39 PM (#362806) Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'? From: InOBU Hi Joe: I mentioned them in a post, I believe around St. Patrick's day, - Larry (probubly spelt the name wrong...) |
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24 Dec 00 - 11:16 PM (#362962) Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'? From: paddymac Richard - what film did you rent. I've seen the one starring Tom Berenger called "One Man's Hero". Is that the one you saw or is there perhaps another? |
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25 Dec 00 - 12:34 AM (#362980) Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'? From: Sorcha Huh. I never heard of any of this.......ain't sophmore American History just great? U. S. Grant was my grandmother's uncle, and I was born and raised in a town named for Winfield Scott........(and a BTW--Grant's middle name was Simson, not Simpson. He was still a blank blank blank idiot....)CREEP ALERT!! |
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25 Dec 00 - 01:58 AM (#362997) Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'? From: Ebbie Seamus, are you still around? There is a Chris Pace here in Juneau- is it possible that he's the one who wrote that song above? The Chris I know is primarily a flat picker; I haven't heard him mention any song writing. On the other hand, he is a history buff. The things we don't know about each other! I will pursue this... Ebbie |
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25 Dec 00 - 02:25 AM (#363001) Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'? From: Seamus Kennedy Ebbie, it's the very same Chris Pace. I met him in Juneau when I was performing on tour last January, and I'm going back to AK for a 3 week tour starting jan 18th. PM me for the details. merry Christmas to you and yours. Seamus |
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25 Dec 00 - 02:46 AM (#363007) Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'? From: Ebbie Seamus, I just remembered I've heard him mention you- although I don't specifically remember his mentioning that he met you! I'll make sure I come to your next concert in Juneau- will you be doing Anchorage, Fairbanks and Juneau, in that order? I could PM you, of course, but this is more fun! I'll have to check the What's Up feature. Now back to the thread- my Spanish/Latin is not all that good. "Los San Patricios"- I read that as The Saint Patricks or maybe the sainted Patricks. What is the literall translation? Thanks. Ebbie |
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25 Dec 00 - 03:32 AM (#363016) Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'? From: Ebbie Seamus, evidently your January 23 tour is not yet on What's On. (?) Ebbie |
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25 Dec 00 - 07:51 AM (#363050) Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'? From: paddymac Ebbie - My Spanish isn't all that great either, but I think you have the correct literal translation. The colloquial translation would be something more like "the Irishmen" as in Mexico's version of an Irish Brigade. I hadn't really thought about before, but now I'm curious: did they choose the name themselves or did Mexican officialdom bestow it on them? Sorcha - don't be so hard on your kinsman. He was twice decorated for valor as a junior officer during the war with Mexico and served brilliantly in the Civil War. His most apparent weakness was that he trusted his subordinates without question. Most historians consider him to have been impeccably honest personally, but his Presidential administration was corrupt because of his trusting reliance on subordinates. That is , perhaps, a necessary or even admirable trait in a military context, but one prone to exploitation in a political context. There is a good bit of scholarship available on him. I most respectfully suggest yhat you might change your view if you study a fair sampling of those writings. |
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25 Dec 00 - 08:00 AM (#363052) Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'? From: McGrath of Harlow Maybe "The Paddies" gets the sense of it best.
I was looking at that name - John Riley. Have you noticed how many songs there are with John Riley or John Reilly, or just Reilly in them. It's a name that seems to appeal to singers. |
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25 Dec 00 - 08:08 AM (#363055) Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'? From: McGrath of Harlow And we could ask them to put in a word for baby Patrick. |
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22 Mar 02 - 12:47 PM (#674087) Subject: Lyr Add: GRINGO From: Bullfrog Jones Just discovered this thread on an idle search for more about Los San Patricios and thought you might be interested in a song that my friend Ian and I wrote about them. You can hear a clip of it here (I hope!) Click here
GRINGO
St Patrick's boys marched hard and long |
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22 Mar 02 - 01:01 PM (#674101) Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'? From: Bullfrog Jones How 'bout that?! I made a clicky! and line breaks! There's something else to add to the Mudcat's great qualities -- it teaches you HTML! |
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22 Mar 02 - 01:46 PM (#674140) Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'? From: McGrath of Harlow As I've heard it the term "gringo" probably doesn't come from "Green Grow the Rushes O", but from "Green Grow the Lilacs" - which would be a more likely song for singing while marching along .
Either way it'd be Green. "Rap the Green White and Red Flag round me Boys!" |
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22 Mar 02 - 01:50 PM (#674145) Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'? From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Forgot to Close. Los Patricios |
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22 Mar 02 - 02:13 PM (#674162) Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'? From: ard mhacha In 1997 to commemerate the San Patricio Battalion the Irish Postal Service [An Post] issused a 32P Stamp. At the same time the Mexican Postal authorities also issused a 3.40 Stamp. The two Stamps are similar bearing a full Celtic Cross with the Harp and the Mexican Coat of Arms. Ard Mhacha. |
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22 Mar 02 - 03:31 PM (#674236) Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'? From: Bullfrog Jones McGrath --- followed your link to 'Green Grow The Lilacs'... Irish soldiers singing about the Red, White & Blue? I don't think so.... plus this, from the same link: Oh yes, the story about this being the basis for the Mexican epithet of "gringo" is most likely pure fakelore. RG If I were of a marching disposition I think I could do it to 'Green Grow The Rushes-O' (but fortunately I'm Not!) BJ |
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22 Mar 02 - 04:12 PM (#674253) Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'? From: McGrath of Harlow It would have been the Yanqui soldiers singing about the Redc White and Blue (since they go in for it as well, along with the British, the Dutch, the Russians and half the coutries in the world.
And if I'd been in the Battalion I think I'd have wanted change it to something like:
Green grow the lilacs, all sparkling with dew I'm lonely, my darling, since parting with you; But by our next meeting I''ll hope to prove true, With the Green White and Red, never Red White and Blue. I think marching to a cumulative song like "Green Grow the Rushes O" would be very tricky, especially with each verse longer than the one before. The reference works are divided on this one, when it comes to explaining Gringo. |
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22 Mar 02 - 04:25 PM (#674261) Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'? From: Irish sergeant It's all interesting to me. We were taught very little about the Mexican war in high school which was many years ago. What I've learned I learned later in a couple of college course a reading on my own. The San Patricios were as stated above not entirely Irish. it should be noted that not all of the San Patricio's captured were hung. SCott made every attempt to ensure the trials were conducted as fairly as possible under the military system (The Articles of War) at the time. I've read, although I haven't seen it in more that one source so I will not attest the veracity, that the San Patricios that were hung the day Chapultapec was taken watched American troops take the fortress and cheered as the flag went up. Sounds like folklore to me but anything is possible especially in war. Winfield SCott was looking toward the presidency but I don't believe that even he thought he had a chance. Brilliant militarily, he could be tempermental, sulky and extremely vain but he did run a straight forward campaign and managed for the most part to keep his soldiers from the normal depradations that most armies tend to commit (or did in those days) Namely rape, pillage and murder. Those who did were tried and hung with far more swiftness than the san patricios were. The officer corps for both the Union and Confederate Army learned their trade in Mexico by the way. Was it expansionist? Certainly but it is also one of our more interesting wars in that there are several similarities to Viet Nam Kindest regards, Neil |
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22 Mar 02 - 05:12 PM (#674302) Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'? From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) I haven't run across an old song about Los San Patricios, but I would imagine that there are several Mexican songs that were inspired by them. Any comments pointing to possible songs would be appreciated. I tried to find the Cris Pace song posted by Mcgrath in the DT since it has the wiggly mark, but no luck with any of the words of the title. |
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22 Mar 02 - 05:29 PM (#674317) Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'? From: McGrath of Harlow That song by Chris Pace was posted by Seamus Kennedy - I just put in the line breaks. It's intended to be sung with the tune of that song about the Alamo and Travis and all -I think they had it in the movie, but I've never seen the movie.
As I've read the story, the hangings were said to have been arranged so they could see the defeat of their comrades and the storming of the fortress as they waited to die, as a way of telling them what they had done had been in vain. If they'd been cheering I'd have doubted they'd be cheering the American troops.
Of course there were a lot of Irish on the American side too, so they could have been - but I can't imagine doing that in the circumstances. Your loyalty would surely be to the people who had fought beside you, the Mexicans defending the fortress against the foreign invader. |
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22 Mar 02 - 05:46 PM (#674329) Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'? From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Another bit of unknown history. Gen. Winfield Scott, vilified for some of the San Patricio hangings, had saved 23 Irishmen from hanging by the British during the War of 1812. Scott and about 1000 soldiers, including the Irishmen, were taken prisoner in one of the actions. The British separated the Irish-born to be taken to England to be tried for high treason. Scott was released in a prisoner exchange, and took the case to Congress. Later he captured a number of British soldiers, and said he would hang 23 Britons if the Irish were not released. The interesting story is here: Wild Geese 1812 |
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22 Mar 02 - 05:49 PM (#674330) Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'? From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Dang! Wild Geese |
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22 Mar 02 - 06:31 PM (#674360) Subject: Lyr Add: JOHN RILEY (Tim O'Brien) From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Here is a song by Tim O'Brien: Lyr. Add: JOHN RILEY (Patricio) [A-]John Riley came from [C] Galway Town in the [A-] years of the Irish [D] hunger And he [A-] sailed away to [C] Amerikay when the [G] country was much younger [A-] ... Now the place was strange and [C] work was scarce, and [A-] all he knew was farming [D] So he [A-] followed his other [C] Irish friends to a [G] job in the U. S. [A-] army Chorus: [C] Adventure calls and [A-] some men run And [C] this is their sad [D] story [A-] Some get drunk on [C] demon rum And [G] some get drunk on [A-] glory... Now they marched down [C] Texas way to the [A-] banks of the Rio [D] Granday And they [A-] built a fort on the [C] banks above to [G] taunt old Santa [A-] Annay... They were [A-] treated bad and [C] paid worse, and [A-] then the fighting [D] started And the [A-] more they fought the [C] less they thought of the [G] damn old U. S. [A-] Army Chorus Now when the church bells ring on a [C] Sunday morn it [A-] set his soul to [D] shiver He saw the [A-] senotitas [C] washing their hair on the [G] far side of the [A-] river... Then John Riley and 200 [C] more [A-] Irish mercen[D]aries They [A-] cast their lot, [C] right or not, [G] south of the Rio [A-] Granday Chorus Now they fought bravely [C] under the flag of the [A-] San Patricios [D] Till the [A-] Yankee soldiers [C] beat them down at the[G] battle of Churu[A-]busco... Then 15 men were [C] whipped like mules, on their [A-] cheeks had a hot iron [D] branded They had to [A-] dig the graves of [C] 50 more who were [G] hanging faded [A-] handed Chorus: then full INSTR verse, slows with last line Now John Riley stands and [C] drinks alone at a [A-] bar in Vera [D] Cruz, And he [A-] wonders if it [C] matters much if you [G] win or if-a you [A-] lose.... "I'm a man who [C] can't go home, I'm a [A-] vagabond," says [D] he, "I'm a [A-] victim of some [C] wanderlust and [G] divided loyal[A-]ty." Chorus (twice) br> It has been determined that Riley went back to Ireland. There were stories of his becoming a derelict in Vera Cruz, but these were incorrect. The men who stayed in Mexico had families, and their descendants are posting genealogical data. Riley Not the Irish song John Riley in the DT. |
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22 Mar 02 - 09:23 PM (#674475) Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'? From: GUEST,Nick I heard about the San Patricios while running down what I figure to be incorrect liner notes from Great Bigs Sea's ALbum "Play" where it is stated the sea shanty "General Taylor" is about an American turncoat officer in the Mexican-American war. The only turncoats I can find are the San Patricios. Upon reading Stan Hugil's book it seems like that info is off, and the song is in fact about Zachary Taylor. The song is from a family of shanties known as Mr. or Masa Stormalong. This family includes the shanty Santi Ano, where Zachary Taylor is mentioned by name. So it is my suposition that General Taylor may well have been a version that was by members of the San Patricios, not about them. So if I am right I dont know any songs about The San P's, but if I am wrong I do. Follow? Nick |
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22 Mar 02 - 10:42 PM (#674538) Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'? From: Wotcha I have a notion that my Great Great Grandfather (an Irish Catholic) was a patricio but am still trying to find the real reason he never came home in 1847 after voluntering to serve in the US Artillery out of Tennessee ... The sea chantey, General Taylor, was likely sung by Liverpool and New York Irish with little love for the established order -- whatever side of the Atlantic. So Santianna won the day their songs ... According to Hugill (genuflection optional), he categorizes the chantey as the unhistorical story of Santiana: "Quite a few British seamen [Irish?] deserted their ships to join Santa Ana's wild and ragged army ..." Hugill records an old west version as follows: "Ol' Santiana, ol' Santiana! Ol' Santian, ol'Santiana! Ol' Santiana . . . Santiana gained the day, Hooray, Santiana! Santiana gained the day, Upon the plains of Mexico, Mexico, Mexico." Titles include "Santiana," "The Plains of Mexico," and "Old Santy Ana." Huzzah! Brian |
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23 Mar 02 - 05:53 AM (#674639) Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'? From: ard mhacha Responsibilty for the sadistic execution of the Irish captives after the battle of Capultepec was delegated to Colonel Harney, the infamous ravisher and murderer of Indian squaws during the Blackhawk and Seminole Wars. According to the official US War Office correspondence, Harney was "notorious for profanity, brutality, incompetnce, peculation,recklesness, insubordination,tyranny and mendacity". The prisoners on the hill of Mixcoac were forced to stand to attention in the wagons with nooses around their necks from 5.30am till the moment four hours later when the victorious US flag was raised over Chapultepec and they were "launched into eternity" uncowed and cheering. Ard Mhacha. |
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23 Mar 02 - 08:27 AM (#674704) Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'? From: Suffet War is war, and as brutal as los Norte Americanos may have been, do not think for a second that the Mexicans were any less so. Nor were los San Patricios. As for their motives, at best they were mixed. As others have said, the Mexicans employed a strategy of what we would now call psychological warfare, and they did whatever they could to turn the Ameriacns against each other and to encouage desertion. They particularly targeted Roman Catholics and/or recent immigrants to the USA, who at the time were victims of Know-Nothingism and Protestant Nativism. That a few deserted is not surprising, but the reality is that the overwhelming majority saw the Mexican propaganda for what it was. Among los San Patricios themselves, there were varied reasons for doing what they did. Some may have been truly motivated by good intentions. Others were fugitives, renegades, thieves, and the like, who saw this as a chance to escape court-martial and a likely noose. Others were merely adventures and freebooters who couldn't resist a good fray. And I am certain that some where just closed minded religious bigots who were easily seduced by images of saints waved in front of their eyes. --- Steve |
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23 Mar 02 - 12:14 PM (#674816) Subject: RE: Songs about 'Los San Patricios'? From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Mexican propaganda? The Mexicans were the victims of U. S. imperialism and fought valiantly against odds in the vain attempt to protect their country. The massacre of the cadets at Chapultepec was another U. S. atrocity that is well-remembered in history south of the border. |
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31 Oct 02 - 06:32 PM (#815538) Subject: RE: Songs about Los San Patricios? From: GUEST,kivatrader Just an added bit of local interest -- In South Central New Mexico, near the town of Ruidoso, is a very small agricultural community in a river bottom called San Patricio. The local legend is that it was settled by a group of Irish veterans of the Mexican War either just before Guadalupe Hidalgo or just after, in 1848. The area was pretty rough, being pretty lawless country in those days, today, it is really picturesque, and is home to fruit orchards, chili and vegetable stands, and at least one world class gallery. |
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31 Oct 02 - 08:09 PM (#815598) Subject: RE: Songs about Los San Patricios? From: GUEST,Q Do you trade with Ebay? Seems that I have seen kivatrader there. (Just call me a pushover for anything Navajo-Zuni-all the rest). Lincoln County, including San Patricio, Ruidoso, Ft. Stanton, White Mountain wilderness etc. etc. is one of the best kept secrets in sight-seeing and/or historical travel in the States. And the Cloudcroft-Apache country adjacent. Everything from cool mountain forests and good fishing (or used to be, I have not tried it for years and years) to high desert. |
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01 Nov 02 - 01:05 AM (#815705) Subject: RE: Songs about Los San Patricios? From: mack/misophist In school in Texas in the 50's the story was covered reasonably well in the mandatory Texas history class. And as for why so many Irishmen were eager to desert and join the Mexicans? Ask why Joan Baez is half Irish and half Mexican. When catholics are shunned and dispised they tend to group together. Furthermore, the mere fact of Irishness was partly to blame. Can ye remember the signs, 'No Irish or dogs allowed'? |
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01 Nov 02 - 02:52 PM (#816244) Subject: RE: Songs about Los San Patricios? From: GUEST,Q So-called "comic" postcards depicting the Irish as ignorant louts and slovens persisted up at least into the 1930s. |
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06 Jul 03 - 08:19 PM (#978003) Subject: RE: Songs about Los San Patricios? From: katlaughing I knew Mudcat would have something on this. Just watched a movie about it, One Man's Hero starring Tom Berringer. They could have done a lot better at several things, but for someone who knew nothing about this, it was quite interesting and horrifying. At the end of the movie, it said John Riley disappreared into the Mexican hills, but I see that is not so according to this thread. OH, well, it's Hollywood.:-) Thanks for all of the info, folks, kat |
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06 Jul 03 - 11:44 PM (#978077) Subject: RE: Songs about Los San Patricios? From: JedMarum I have a song about these guys - used in the play, A Flag to Fly. |
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07 Jul 03 - 09:21 PM (#978714) Subject: RE: Songs about Los San Patricios? From: JedMarum I've included the lyrics to my San Patricio song below. Sorry I don't have a sound file available for this song. Before I post the lyrics, I must make a brief explanation. This song is one I rewrote for the performance of Chris Matthew's play called, A FLAG TO FLY. I had a very poor recording of the original to work with and tried to stick the original's story line, some of its imagery and some of its melody. It is quite different from the original, though. I was asked to make the modifications to fit the play's performance at the North Texas Irish Festival in March of 2003. The original author is unknown, to me - and we have searched for him. I'd still like to find him ... |
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07 Jul 03 - 09:22 PM (#978715) Subject: RE: Songs about Los San Patricios? From: JedMarum CHO: Waiting for a flag to fly Waiting as the end draws nigh My whole life passes by Waiting for a flag to fly Now I have fought invaders in own dear Ireland I came over to America unwelcomed by this land So I quit the US Army and I left for Mexico I joined the bold Battalion of the San Patricio Many were the numbers of my native countrymen Faithful now to Mexico these valiant Irishmen Helping hands, adopted lands, a common cross to bear I could see that somehow we, were the answer to a prayer CHO Standing at Chapultupec it's cruel to understand At Churubuso captured though we fought until the end Not only are we prisoners, they call us traitor too Placed to die before the flag the moment that it flew We never fought for glory and we never fought for pride For common faith and loyalty our brothers fought and died Americans may hate us but we're loved by Mexico I am no more a traitor then any soldier that I know CHO - CHO |
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05 Jan 08 - 04:07 AM (#2228855) Subject: RE: Songs about Los San Patricios? From: GUEST,Les Izmore Here are the lyrics to a song by Mary O'neill and Matt Sullivan from the Wannabe Texans, a San Francisco band from the late 80s. The rest of their music is great also. Well worth seeking out. San Patricio's Battalion Captain John O'Reilly was handsome and smiling But he'd had enough of lyin' for the Yanks So he took off with his men out of Texas and down in To old Mexico to be hung by his neck It weren't the senioritas or lots of cheap tequila That sent these Irishmen to meet their deaths It was something in their blood that couldn't stand the shoves Of injustice on a nation of free men Saint Patricio's battalion chose to fight their own damn battle And not fight another dirty US war They said we're Irishmen who know that Viva Mexico Is an echo of the cry Free Ireland Patrick and Enrique disgusted down and bleeding United and took aim at Uncle Sam It was a matter of their feeling but the bullets kept on zingin' And they died there on the burning desert sands General Winfield Scott with a medal on his heart Said I'll make these rebels pay unto the end So up on Chapultapec he hung the rebels by the neck That's why today old Texas isn't Mex Saint Patricio's battalion chose to fight their own damn battle And not fight another dirty US war They said we're Irishmen who know that Viva Mexico Is an echo of the cry Free Ireland |
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05 Jan 08 - 02:14 PM (#2229180) Subject: RE: Songs about Los San Patricios? From: Ernest Here`s one from Black 47: http://www.thereelbook.com/groups/Black47/charts/SanPatricioBrigade.pdf Best Ernest |
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04 Feb 08 - 08:10 AM (#2253080) Subject: RE: Songs about Los San Patricios? From: GUEST,Diarmuid Hi, I checked out a couple of songs and some contributions on this subject. There is another song sung by Niamh Parsons which I've heard and is very good but don't have the lyrics (that's what I was searching for). Chorus goes: "Who were these men, what was their crime, for which they were ???????????? did they rob or rape, or was their fate as the poet once related? These men of Ireland, the men whom God made mad: Their wars were never merry, but oh! their songs were sad." |
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01 Nov 08 - 02:50 PM (#2481784) Subject: RE: Songs about Los San Patricios? From: GUEST,cha I wrote a song myself about the san patricios here are the lyrics there is a sample of it too on cdbaby.com the album its on is "songs from an outpost". I wrote the song to the air of the scottish song dainty davey 47 too long a year, men died in chains men died in fear some were lost under Irish sky and some on Mexico's fields were hung. The gallows there 14 feet high two score men condemned to die hung at noon in scorching heat, three hours they waited bound hand and feet. 47 too dark a year, men shook their chains and fell in fear from Vera Cruz a flag unfurled many men rallied round it. A Mexican eagle and a Celtic cross under the green flag men were lost shot down as soldiers, hung as slaves their cruel fate a shallow grave. Birds wouldn't cross the Pedragal through it General Lee he carved a path Valencia's army were routed there Churubusco's fate was calling. The Yankees tumbled through high corn at Churubusco we shot them down Mexican guns they soon gave out with bayonets we joined the slaughter. Three times the white flag swung round three times O'Riley pulled it down when blood ran down into the sound only then did they surrender. The Mexican eagle and a Celtic cross under the green flag men were lost Shot down as soldiers, hung as slaves their cruel fate a shallow grave. The gallows there 14 feet high two score men condemned to die Hung at noon in scorching heat, three hours they waited bound hand and feet. |
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21 Apr 09 - 05:59 PM (#2615940) Subject: RE: Songs about Los San Patricios? From: GUEST,MSYSPIRIT THE FENIANS DO A GREAT SONG TITLED THE SAN PATRICIOS ON THEIR CD BAND OF ROGUES. |
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17 Mar 10 - 08:24 PM (#2866475) Subject: RE: Songs about Los San Patricios? From: McGrath of Harlow The Chieftains have just issued a record in tribute to the San Patricio Battalion, featuring Ry Cooder. Very good. Here is a YouTube featurette about it, with some extracts. This should make a few more people aware of the history. (And if you can get Spotify, you can hear all the tracks.) |
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17 Mar 10 - 09:19 PM (#2866501) Subject: RE: Songs about Los San Patricios? From: pattyClink Good heavens I had no idea there were so many songs about this. I'm going to quote liner notes off the "Soldiers' Songs" CD by Captain Mackey's Goatskin and String Band (Jimmy Crowley and Martin Cogain) The Men that God Made Mad Ron Kavana wished to record the heroism of the Battalon de San Patricio in the Mexican-American war (1846-1848) who defected to the Mexican side and were executed by the American Army. To the United States, the deserters are traitors; but to Mexicans, the "Irish martyrs" are heroes, honored in street names, plaques and St. Patrick's Day celebrations around the country. The battalion's name is written in gold letters in the chamber of Mexico's House of Representatives. Far, far from Clifden's rocky shore o'er the broad Atlantic sea, The battalion of St. Patrick tired of harsh brutality No more abuse or bigotry, their angry cry whole-hearted Near Matamoros lives were lost, that's when the fighting started Chorus Who were those men, what was the crime For which their lives were wasted, Did they rob or rape or was their fate As the poet once related? Were those great Gaels of Ireland The men that God made mad? Their wars were never merry, But all their songs were sad Land of the Free meant liberty to the U.S. Army's Irish, Til James K. Polk he sent 'em south to civilize the Spanish In a war to extend slavery and unjust exploitation They'd not repeat what Cromwell did to their own poor Irish nation. At Angostura Irish blood drenched the sun-baked clay And Mexico still honours those brave men who died that day But the worse was yet to come in the hour that was ended When General Scott hung Irishmen to celebrate with vengeance. |
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18 Mar 10 - 01:58 AM (#2866600) Subject: RE: Songs about Los San Patricios? From: open mike That c.d. was featured on a local folk music wshow here.. incredible...here is an article about Ry Cooder and all.. http://www.sanfernandosun.com/sanfernsun/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5002&Itemid=2 |
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18 Mar 10 - 03:01 AM (#2866611) Subject: ADD: The Men that God made Mad From: GUEST The Men that God made Mad - written by Ron Kavanagh (Arr. N. Parsons/G. Dunne) L'Entrada de L'Angustura - written by Graham Dunne Far far from Clifden's rocky shore o'er the broad Atlantic sea The Battalion of St. Patrick tired of harsh brutality No more abuse or bigotry, their angry cry wholehearted Near Matamoras lives were lost that's when the fighting started Chorus: Who were those men, what was the crime For which their lives were wasted Did they rob or rape, or was their fate As the poet once related Were those great Gaels of Ireland The men that God made mad Their wars were never merry But all their songs were sad Land of the Free meant liberty to the U.S. Army's Irish Till James K. Polk he sent them south to civilize the Spanish In a war to extend slavery and unjust exploitation They'd not repeat what Cromwell did to their poor Irish Nation Chorus: At L'Angustura, Irish blood drenched the sun-baked clay And Mexico still honours those brave men who died that day But the worst was yet to come in the hour that war was ended When General Scott hung the Irishmen to celebrate with vengeance Chorus: http://www.niamhparsons.com/fylde_track8.html |
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18 Mar 10 - 09:34 AM (#2866798) Subject: RE: Songs about Los San Patricios? From: GUEST,Neil D I read years ago that many Irish soldiers defected after American troops burned down a Catholic church early in the war. This mighty have been in "People's History of the United States". Now I can't find any reference to this event in any of the histories. Has anyone else heard this story. |
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18 Mar 10 - 10:08 AM (#2866817) Subject: RE: Songs about Los San Patricios? From: pdq The government based in Mexico City encouraged Irish to emigrate to the Texas territory as early as 1828. They were often paid something, money or land. Germans began arriving in numbers in the 1930s, about 40% were Catholic. They came on their own and started some of the cattle ranches that still exist today. Since there was no obvious border anywhere in the Southwest, many Germans wound up in areas that are now in Mexico. Both joined various groups of pioneers who came from the U.S. All lived in the middle of a region that had been occupied by numerous native tribes which came to be known as American Indians, or just Indians. Indians were, by far, the majority race at the time the Bear Flag Republic was established and the Irish, Germans, ex pat Americans, Spanish, and most of the ethnic Mexicans all despised the corrupt and violent government in Mexico city and wanted nothing to do with their rule. Actually, most of Mexico's states were in revolt against their government at this time. The government in Mexico City decreed that only Roman Catholicism would be practiced in the Texas territory and that all people, no matter where they were from, must pledge allegiance to the Mexican government. Penalty for disloyalty to the Mexican government or non-compliance with religious demands: death. Churches were burned but they were Protestant churches and they were torched by Mexicans. Irish joined the Mexican Army in the fight to put Texas under Mexican control, however, those who suggest that these were all U.S. army deserters are way off base. Proof, anyone? |
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18 Mar 10 - 10:32 AM (#2866835) Subject: RE: Songs about Los San Patricios? From: pdq Since the California Republic (aka Bear Flag Republic) of 1846 and the Republic of Texas, from 1836-46, were the conerstones to the establishment of the southern border of the United States, it is resonable to think of them at the same time. Ignore typo in above statement. |
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18 Mar 10 - 01:37 PM (#2866964) Subject: RE: Songs about Los San Patricios? From: Seamus Kennedy For your consideration: San Patricios |
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18 Mar 10 - 04:35 PM (#2867103) Subject: RE: Songs about Los San Patricios? From: GUEST,morrisbrendon Charlei O'Brien has written and recorded a fine song about this, and his other stuff is also well worth a listen. Here's the relevant page on his site... Charlie O'Brien |
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18 Mar 10 - 04:43 PM (#2867110) Subject: RE: Songs about Los San Patricios? From: McGrath of Harlow So it was a war of liberation on the part of the USA... As was the entire conquest of the 51 states and expropriation of the people who had been living there previously. |
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19 Mar 10 - 03:34 PM (#2867815) Subject: RE: Songs about Los San Patricios? From: Folknacious I'm right this minute reading a massive article about the Chieftains and Ry Cooder "San Patricios" record project in the new April fRoots that came out yesterday. More here |
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24 Mar 10 - 07:40 AM (#2870651) Subject: RE: Songs about Los San Patricios? From: mikesamwild This would link nicely with the thread on songs of the Spanish Civil war We don't get the sme feeling of support for The Blueshirts who went ot spain ' to support the church' was it because they were fascists not Republicans ( not the modern US party!) as I assume the San Patricios were. |
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24 Mar 10 - 08:12 AM (#2870671) Subject: RE: Songs about Los San Patricios? From: Dave the Gnome I pointed to this on another thread - http://www.josemalones.com/ and by way of a little light hearted humour wonder if this wonderful sounding place was directly influenced by the events described above:-) Cheers DeG |
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25 Mar 10 - 10:17 AM (#2871509) Subject: RE: Songs about Los San Patricios? From: Big Mick On our new CD, The Conklin Ceili Band's "The Cannonsburg Sessions", we do Tim O'Brien's wonderful song titled "John Riley" and use "Loch Leven Castle" for the breaks between the verses and for the breakdown at the end. The CD is in local release here in Michigan now, and will soon be up on CD Baby and through our website. We are in the midst of a rework on our online stuff. If any of you would like a copy, drop me a PM and we will work out the details. All the best, Mick |
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27 Jun 10 - 09:17 AM (#2935510) Subject: RE: Songs about Los San Patricios? From: GUEST Do you know of Thom Moore's song San Patricios? |
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16 Apr 12 - 01:19 AM (#3338932) Subject: RE: Songs about Los San Patricios? From: GUEST,A grateful Mexicano Gracias Batallon de Los San Patricios. Mexico forever grateful! I read the history of the Irish people & it makes very sad. The Irish fled a homeland controlled by a foreign crown with a different religion just to land in America to serve a president acting like the very same crown they fled; a tyrant who invades other countries & who also oppressed the Catholic people. It's no wonder why so many Irish left the U.S. military to fight on the side of the Mexicans. Once upon a time they said the Irish were dirty pigs. They now say that about Mexicans. They said Irish were violent drunks. They now say that about Mexicans. They said the Irish were wife beaters. They now say that about Mexicans. They say Irish only bring diseases. They now say that about Mexicans. They used to post signs that read: No dogs or Irish allowed. Now they read: No dogs or Mexicans around. To suffer racism is a heavy price to pay in America. However with time we, the Mexicans & Irish, have proved that we are also prominent members of society. I read the history & struggle of the Irish immigrant & I feel like I'm reading the history of the Mexican immigrant. However, recently I've seen many videos of Mexican people celebrating St. Patricks Day in their lil pueblos and it brings a smile to my face. I had no idea how celebrated they are, Los San Patricios. Some time ago, I stumbled upon this history through flipping channels & saw the movie with Thom Berenger, One Mans Hero. Now in this blog, I see how many people, most likely of Irish background, are interestid in this part of history. I'm honored that both our histories provides some bonding between both peoples. I've met Irish people before. However, meeting Irish will now take a whole new meaning. Please promote the history of our peoples by word of mouth or wearing t-shirts, hats, or buttons with the San Patricios emblem. I usually frequent the many Irish pubs in Long Beach California cus I love their beer. I wonder what kinda reaction I will get from wearing such t-shirts. My next vacation spot is definitely Churubusco. |
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04 Nov 21 - 11:47 PM (#4125208) Subject: RE: Songs about Los San Patricios? From: GUEST For the wonderful song by the Fenians. If anybody can catch the words in the last few lines, please let me know. :-) |
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17 Mar 22 - 01:08 PM (#4138713) Subject: RE: Songs about Los San Patricios? From: Joe Offer What was the song Jed Marum wrote about Los San Patricios? Ah, here: https://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=61044 - A Flag to Fly - A San Patricio Story (Marum) |