Here's a tough one, 'Catters!

26 Sep 00 - 09:39 AM (#305646)
Subject: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: Peter T.

Here's a song problem, which requires some lateral thinking and memories of late 50s-early 60s pop songs. El Rick and I were working on a bass run embellishment (for Blue Bayou) and ran across the pattern than provides the back up for The Fleetwoods' (if that is right) song "Come Softly" (main voice: "come softly, daaaaarrrrlinnngg....). In the sort of background, the rest are singing the familiar:

Dum, dum, da, de, da, da, da, dada, slide into
DUM, dum, dum, da, de, da, da, da, da, da,
and so on, into infinity.

The question is: What is the other song which has almost the identical Dum, Dum, vocal pattern, only a shade different? Has been driving me crazy for three days.

yours, Peter T.

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26 Sep 00 - 09:51 AM (#305647)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)

Not what you are looking for Peter; but just for shits and giggles, try blending in Roy Orbison's base for the song "Crying Over You"... Yours, Aye.Dave

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26 Sep 00 - 10:53 AM (#305661)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: mousethief

Peter, is this "other song" also by the Fleetwoods or by somebody else? I'm not remembering any other song that sounds like the male part in "Come Softly To Me."

FWIW, the "Very Best of the Fleetwoods" cd has a wonderful a capella version of "CSTM" -- either the same vocal take as in the released version, or one very, very close -- but before all the instruments are layered on. If you listen closely you can hear one of them shaking her keys to keep the time. (Either Gretchen or the other one, I forget; it's in the liner notes.)

Alex
O..O
=o=

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26 Sep 00 - 10:55 AM (#305668)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: catspaw49

There are times I think you are truly in need of serious help PT. This is one of those times.

Spaw

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26 Sep 00 - 10:57 AM (#305670)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: Bert

I thought that the 'dum de dum dums' in those Fifties songs were ALL the same.

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26 Sep 00 - 11:58 AM (#305741)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: Rick Fielding

Hey come on cats, it's better for Peter to be worrying about "dum,dums" than the imminent destruction of our ecological paradise here on earth. For what it's worth, if anyone had walked in on us while we were "dum,dumming" and speculating on the whereabouts of GARY TROXEL, they'd have thought we had entirely too much time on our hands.

Other things that we will probably consider in the future:

Who DID put the bomp in bomp she bomp? (leaving aside the question of who put the Ram in the ramarama ding dong)

Why did that johnnie come lately J.S. Bach feel he had to steal from "How gentle is the rain......."

What calibre was Taco Bell's cannon?

Was Paul a "Dead Walrus"?

Was Didi Conn TOO perky?

Rick

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26 Sep 00 - 12:00 PM (#305742)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: GUEST,Pete Peterson at work

serious answer-- the first one you mentioned is Come Go With Me, originally by teh DelVikings (about the first interractial group in rock in 1956 or so, I always wondered why you never saw publicitiy photos)
the second is probably Come Softly To Me, not sure who did it.
but the chord progression for the first one is used in whole bunches of rock songs-- I always called it the Heart and Soul progression (G/Em/Am/D7 repeat till end of 45 record) but is also All I have to do is Dream, Born too Late, many others

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26 Sep 00 - 12:04 PM (#305747)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: Ely

Mr Blue? (Call me Mr. Blue, oo-wah, oo-wah-ooo)

Come Go With Me is a good guess.

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26 Sep 00 - 12:08 PM (#305752)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: mousethief

I thought "How Gentle Was the Rain" (the actual title of the song is Lover's Concerto) was stolen by Beethoven. Shows how much I know about classical music.

Alex
O..O
=o=

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26 Sep 00 - 12:13 PM (#305758)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: Jeri

Too bad Peter couldn't just whip on into HearMe and hum a few bars. I can't think exactly how the line goes. It's one thing to have a melody stuck in your head - it's another to have an almost-melody in there. I'm imagining "Wimoweh" and all sorts of other things being some over some nebulous "dum dums."

Rick, I saw a short black-and-white film on TV late one night. It was about a modern composer (from the 30's or 40's maybe?) who had died and gone to the pearly gates. He was being judged on whether he was worthy to get into heaven, and his "stealing" of tunes was a big negative mark. They had several famous dead guys there - classical composers. One started by saying "you stole that from my composition," and played a few bits. Another earlier deceased guy said "yeah, but you stole it from me." Still another, earlier dead guy said...you get the picture. The references were to real composers and compositions. I REALLY wish I'd gotten the name of the compositions, or at least the film.

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26 Sep 00 - 12:19 PM (#305766)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: wysiwyg

OK, but who was TWINKLETOES? What is the earliest reference to that name, character, or quality, who wrote it, what was he thinking, was there someone he was talking about..... or she.

And Rick, of course it was a she who put the bomp in bomp she bomp. If she hadn'ta bomped, the observer wouldn'ta had anything to talk about. So there's half the work done for you. Cherchez la femme.

~S~

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26 Sep 00 - 12:22 PM (#305768)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: catspaw49

Rick ol buddy, you got a real short memory and a lot of trust. Remember Big Mick plays a D chord? Remember my ill advised watermelon remarks? I wonder how soon those will pop up as threads?

I loved 'em though..........particularly the Taco Bell. Well stroked.

Spaw

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26 Sep 00 - 12:32 PM (#305781)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: SINSULL

The Fleetwoods didn't do "Tragedy". Thomas Wayne(???) did. Thanks, now I won't be able to function until I come up with the name. Damn.

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26 Sep 00 - 12:44 PM (#305793)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: mousethief

The Fleetwoods didn't do Runaround. Del Shannon did.

Alex
O..O
=o=

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26 Sep 00 - 12:46 PM (#305796)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: mousethief

My bad. Del Shannon did Runaway, not Runaround. Hmmm. Well, Dion and the Belmonts did Runaround Sue. The Fleetwoods did indeed do Runaround, and I have egg on my face.

clicky

Alex
O..O
=o=

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26 Sep 00 - 12:48 PM (#305797)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: SINSULL

Stay out of the hen house Mousethief.

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26 Sep 00 - 12:51 PM (#305801)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: mousethief

You'll never catch me, copper!

I see you've bid on another copy of Long Steel Rail on Ebay, Sinsull. Good luck!

Alex
O..O
=o=

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26 Sep 00 - 01:08 PM (#305815)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: bbelle

mousethief ... are you referring to The Fleetwoods or Fleetwood Mac?

Is the song Brenda Lee's "Dum Dum Da Deedle De Dum?"

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26 Sep 00 - 01:12 PM (#305817)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: WyoWoman

"Come with meeee, to the seeeeee of luuuuuv ...."

I can hear it all now. I can see Rick and Peter in their slinky gowns, doing the harlem shuffle behind me ...

Wait. Wrong fantasy ...

But can I come sing "Blue Bayou" wid you guys? That's one of my good 'uns.

USWW Pansy Rue Twidgett reporting for duty, Sir ...

oh...wrong thread...

I need more coffee ...

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26 Sep 00 - 01:13 PM (#305818)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: Rick Fielding

Yup "Come and Go With me" is the one we wanted.

"Lover's Concerto"! Thanks, thief. The name of that was driving me nuts!

Rick

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26 Sep 00 - 01:22 PM (#305822)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: mousethief

Moonjen: The fabulous Fleetwoods, of course. I have their Greatest Hits CD. I don't have ANY Fleetwood Mac CD's (although if I were to get one it would be Rumours).

Alex
O..O
=o=

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26 Sep 00 - 01:27 PM (#305829)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: Jim the Bart

Hmm, I thought for sure you were talking about "Only the Lonely" by the late great Roy Orbison. One of the best.

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26 Sep 00 - 02:12 PM (#305864)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: mousethief

No toes were stepped on. My toes are at the end of size-13 feet, so "itty bitty" might be a bit of an exaggeration.

Alex
O..O
=o=

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26 Sep 00 - 02:43 PM (#305897)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: Robby

Dang! After all these years of thinking the Fleetwoods did Tragedy. But I sure recognize the chorus to a song I have heard sung by Judy Collins, WyoWoman.

I was going to say that Lovers' Concerto was written by Chopin. Then I remembered that someone in the thirties stole his score and turned into the Big Band hit Tonight We Love.

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26 Sep 00 - 02:45 PM (#305900)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: mousethief

"Tonight We Love" is the main theme from Tchaikovsky's Piano Concerto #1.

Alex
O..O
=o=

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26 Sep 00 - 02:51 PM (#305906)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: Lady McMoo

I think I know this...isn't it "God Save the Queen"?

mcmoo

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26 Sep 00 - 02:52 PM (#305908)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: Robby

Dang me! Dang me. They otta take a rope and hang me!

Apologies to Roger Williams!!

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26 Sep 00 - 03:01 PM (#305917)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: mousethief

And before you say anything, let me mention that "Stranger in Paradise" is from Borodin's ballet Prince Igor.

Alex
O..O
=o=

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26 Sep 00 - 03:05 PM (#305921)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: M.Ted

Lover's Concerto was The Minuet from the Anna Magdalena Notebooks, by Bach--

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26 Sep 00 - 03:06 PM (#305922)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: Gary T

Robby, the lines you quoted are from Roger Miller's "Dang Me".

In the movie "Mr. Holland's Opus", with Richard Dreyfuss, he tells his class that the tune of "Lover's Concerto" is from "Minuet in G" by...dang, I can't remember!

From memory--the vocal background in "Come Sofly":

Down down, down doo dooby, dooby down (repeated)

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26 Sep 00 - 03:13 PM (#305930)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: Mbo

Yep, "Strangers in Paradise" is actually Polovtsian Dance. No.2 from the opera Prince Igor.

"All By Myself" and "Full Moon & Empty Arms" are the 2nd and 3rd movements, respectively, from Rachmaninoff's Piano Concerto No.2.

"Baubles, Bangles & Beads" is actually the Trio from a Borodin String Quartet.

No need for me to mention "A Fifth of Beethoven" or "A Night on Disco Mountain."

Part of the reason for so many of these songs have tunes drawn from Classical music is because of the rise of ASCAP made a lot of songs impossible to perform without the correct permission, so folks like the Dorseys & Tin Pan Alley began putting lyrics to Classical music to create copyright-free music to perform.

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26 Sep 00 - 03:15 PM (#305933)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: mousethief

That and they're just darned good tunes.

Alex
O..O
=o=

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26 Sep 00 - 03:54 PM (#305969)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: Peter T.

"Come Go with Me!" -- what a class bunch. Pete Peterson, my hero!!Knew all those Petes had something going for them.

yours, Peter T.

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26 Sep 00 - 04:04 PM (#305984)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: Robby

I think I'll just button my lip and close my trap. 'Tis better to be thought a fool that to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.

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26 Sep 00 - 11:01 PM (#306255)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: Big Mick

You about made me nuts with this one............great songs, eh? As I was monkeying around with different tempo's and phrasing's, for some damn reason all I could keep thinking of was "Breakin' up is hard to do". Dum doo dee doo dum dum, Come a come a, dum doo dee doo dumm dumm,...........breaking up is hard to-o-o-o-o-o do. Wasn't it Sedaka who did that? This was a wonderful time in music.

Mick

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26 Sep 00 - 11:15 PM (#306269)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: campfire

Hi, Big Mick! I think you're right, Sedaka wrote it, but it was also done (even worse, if that's possible) by a bubble-gum-ey group whose name escapes me right now - and now I won't be able to sleep...dum doo dee doo dumm dumm!

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26 Sep 00 - 11:17 PM (#306271)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: catspaw49

Ya know, this one has cracked me up all day. We spend a good bit of time talking about how difficult it can be to understand each other's words. Without seeing the face or hearing the sound of the voice and its inflections, its so easy to take things the wrong way. So, we are all careful to try to be clear with one another and all that good stuff.

Then along comes PT with a bunch of Doobee-Doobee-Do-Wops and we're supposed to figure out what the hell he's talking about!!! The fact that the mystery was solved speaks well about this joint!

Spaw

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27 Sep 00 - 01:29 AM (#306350)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: WyoWoman

Well, yes, but Peter T. does those dum dum doobee doobee wahs in a really articulate way ...

ww

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27 Sep 00 - 01:51 AM (#306357)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: katlaughing

Jeri, do you remember what channel you saw the composer movie on? Might be able to backtrack in the schedules and find out the name of it. Sounds like something that would be on IFC (independent film channel.)

BTW, ya'll are way too old. I don't remember half of the songs ya'll are saying were so popular. Sheesh, what a bunch of old farts!**BG**

katthekid

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27 Sep 00 - 07:46 AM (#306406)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: Noreen

campfire, I remember the Partridge Family doo-bee-doing it (with the lovely David Cassidy *sigh*).

The original request made me think of 'Only the Lonely' too- picture it, Peter and Rick, all around the world there are people 'dum-dum-dum-doo-be-doo'-ing because of you?!

LOL

Noreen

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27 Sep 00 - 08:49 PM (#306988)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: Peter T.

Strange that no one ever developed a consistent vocabulary for these. When I think of "Only The Lonely", I go: "Dum, dum, dum, dum de doo wah" which is different than others would vocalize it. My version of Breaking Up Is Hard to Do is nothing like Big Mick's ("down's" surely, not "dumms"). Where is the International DooWop Standards Bureau????
yours, Peter T.

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28 Sep 00 - 12:33 AM (#307131)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: WyoWoman

Here's how old *I* am: We used to have "makeout" music. Remember makeout music? I don't want to start an entire thread because my reputation already preceeds me, but ... wasn't that just the best? Slow dancing to "Town without Pity" (my sister's records, honestly. My OLDER sister ...) or the Righteous Brothers. Johnny Mathis (my sister's records, I'm tellin' ya) is still the best ...

Lots of dum-dum doobie-doo's in makeout music....

ww

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28 Sep 00 - 03:03 AM (#307181)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: Metchosin

Sinsull and Robby, of course The Fleetwoods did Tragedy, I have it here on my vinyl collection and you can also listen to it here The group was one of my favorites and that song can still put a lump of nostalgia in my throat after forty years.....forty years?........ Oh jeez!

WyoWoman, we called them "gropes". They don't seem to do that anymore do they?....... Too bad......so little romance.....

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28 Sep 00 - 03:05 AM (#307182)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: Metchosin

oops! now its forbidden fruit.

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28 Sep 00 - 03:08 AM (#307183)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: Metchosin

Well you can copy and paste your way to it. http://www.cybersunday.net/music/

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28 Sep 00 - 04:05 AM (#307191)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: Noreen

WW, Metchosin- we called them 'slowies'! Don't they do slowies any more? Shock horror!

Noreen

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28 Sep 00 - 07:31 AM (#307226)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: Catrin

Noreen - I can't believe your *sigh*ing over David Cassidy - I thought you had taste woman!

For what it's worth, dum diddys etc. always make me think of that ridiculous love scene with Peter Sellers and watsername - 'it goes dum diddy dum diddy dum diddy dum diddy dum diddy dum diddy DUM DUM DUM'

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28 Sep 00 - 07:46 AM (#307233)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: Robby

Thank, Metchosin. It's nice knowing that after 40+ years I havien't completely lost my marbles. I sure remember making out. Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately) I also remember necking and petting. Ah, the memories, but that's another Cat's story.

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28 Sep 00 - 08:34 AM (#307246)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: Noreen

No, Catrin, that was bum diddy bum diddy bum diddy bum diddy bum diddy bum diddy BUM BUM BUM!!! (Sophia Loren?)

Peter, I agree- we're desperately in need of some standards here! :0)

And the *sigh* was in the past tense, Catrin. My friends were all in love with Donny Osmond, so it could have been worse....

Noreen

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28 Sep 00 - 10:32 AM (#307301)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: GUEST,Mbo_at_ECU

I don't have any "make-out" music cuz I've never made out. Though I do have music I like for thunderstorms, driving on a sunny day, driving on a cloudy day, feeling pumped, when I ache, and even music for 4pm in the afternoon on certain sunny Autumn days.

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28 Sep 00 - 11:37 AM (#307343)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler

...any one else remember the Johnny Otis Show with "3 Tons of Joy" ?(Three ladies of [very] generous proportions):
"Doo-Wop de dooby dooby, Doo-wop de dooby dooby...Mama, he's making eyes at me...."
Is that how yo'd put it , Pete (your other versions were as I'd do them, except you'd be in tune!)
RtS (I may be pedantic but that doesn't mean I'm right)

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28 Sep 00 - 12:20 PM (#307366)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: Peter T.

(1) Mbo, I thought you were an art student. What is happening in the art schools of the nation? What is the point of an art school if you aren't making out all the time? (cf. Rodin, seriatim)

(2) Roger, it is clear that the current system of Doowop notation is far too ambiguous. What is happening in the music schools of the nation? I can only hope that they too are doing what they are supposed to do (cf. Franz Liszt, seriatim).

yours, Peter T.

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28 Sep 00 - 12:48 PM (#307383)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: Mbo

They must have changed, Peter. Art school now is always being tired and spending long hours doing work. I haven't seen anyone else making out here either.

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28 Sep 00 - 12:51 PM (#307386)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: catspaw49

Meebo, do you post this stuff just to get a reaction or is it true? I'd like to believe the former, but everything tells me its the latter. The art of making out is probably about lost in today's world, but I imagine there are still a few practioners around. There is nothing quite like it and, I hesitate to say this, for me, sex was anticlimactic.

Gawd......I hate being this old. The 60's may have changed many of the customs, but those of us who were there then know it didn't happen overnight. We were the offspring of reasonably straight parents and had grown up with Ozzie and Harriet sleeping in twin beds after Ricky came home from the malt shop. For a lot of us, the early sexual conquests were far more closely allied to the 40's and 50's then with the changing world we lived in. Do you remember? Wasn't it great?

Making out..........whether it was in the den, the woods, or a car, it was always something special. Guys went into it with a game plan. There was a certain progression to be followed and if you strayed outside the lines you were either a jerk or a tramp. Holding hands, that tentative arm around her shoulders.....did she move a little closer? Then you lightly stroked an arm, gave a gentle squeeze. If you got this far on a first date, well that was about right. If it had gone well, you stood at the door and waited making idle little chit chat and looking into each other's eyes. A slight touching of the hands led to an embrace and as you pulled your head back, your eyes met and both of you agreed to the kiss.

Maybe the next time was a dance. The hand holding and such was a bit freer now and those slow dances led to the next phase. At first your bodies didn't touch, but as the evening went on the separation slowly disappeared. You could feel another human being who had a body different from your own and you slowly explored the softness and the curves. If it was a formal dance though, the girl seemed to be more assembled than dressed and you could feel the ridges and hooks and fasteners that seemed to bind her in an iron grip. Yet even that was wonderful and mysterious. The evening ended hopefully with another kiss and embrace, longer this time with some stroking. What a night!

Then there was the car. It didn't have to be a car, but it often was. Everywhere had a place to "park." Maybe you went to dinner or a movie or a football game first, but you ended up out there watching the submarine races. This had to be by mutual consent and it was rarely verbal. It was the guy's lead, but the girl had to agree. Maybe she turned on the radio and asked a question. It wasn't much, but you knew. You repeated all that had come before with more time and passion. The first French kiss was a special moment since you knew that perhaps tonight you would go further yet, stroking her breasts, a hand on the knee. The next time you were there, maybe your hand could explore the wonders inside her blouse and you could brush your hand over the clasp on her bra a few times. Was she willing? Did she lean back against the seat or did she open her back to you? When the moment came, most of us fumbled with those stupid clasps, no piece of male clothing having anything like it. Did she reach around to help? Wow, you really knew then didn't you?

A few dates later you had become comfortable and had begun to stroke her legs and run your hand over those lovely soft curves. Now it was time to try for the big move, her panties. Skirts were wonderful things to the average male although panty hose left something to be desired. With a skirt you could slowly work your way up and down her legs probing a bit more with each stroke until you touched that smooth, silky fabric so alien to the male child. Cotton undrewear could really slow you down a bit at this point. It didn't really matter though, you had reached that which was both most wonderful and most mysterious. You stroked your hand over the fabric and later allowed your fingers slide under the legbands a bit. NOW was the moment of all great truth. It required the girl to understand a move that I believe they must have to practice since its subtlety is so complete. No man in the world can remove a seated girl's panties without her making a slight lifting and twisting movement. Without it, you were stopped.....or a rapist. That movement was a tacit agreement to go on to the next step, not sex yet, just the next step along the path.

Ya' know, breakin' up may be hard to do, but fallin' in love was great. I think of all the times when I went through this in my teenage years and I wonder what it is that you wait for Meebo? There are so many wonderful people out there to be with and so much affection to be shared. "Ms. Right" didn't show up til I was 36 and the whole groping thing changes as an adult to some degree, more open, more honest perhaps. I would never have traded those years before though when everything was exciting and new. It will never be like that again.

Spaw

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28 Sep 00 - 02:01 PM (#307444)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: Metchosin

Spaw! you've brought tears to my eyes and..............well, lets keep that bit under wraps 50's, 60's style.

Mbo, forget all about that mocho sh*t and learn how to ....Dance! Not as a means to an end, but an end in itself and the rest will come. Nobody melts a woman's heart like a good slow dancer, even today, according to my daughters.

The wonderful thing about slow dancin' at the Sock Hop then, was you could try it out with no strings attached, under the teacher's eagle eye and if you clicked with your partner, Wow! young heart yearning , breath short and butterflies in your tummy.

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28 Sep 00 - 02:13 PM (#307457)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: Peg

hmm, thanks for the erotica interlude, 'spaw. There is nothing like a good necking session. Kissing for a long time with someone who really knows what they're doing is the most fun there is (well, next to playing traditional music, I guess).

Not to be picky, but I think the actual rhythm/words of that riff for Come Softly darling goes, ahem, like THIS:

Down, DOWN, down-doo-bee-DOWN-bee-doo-bee-doo,
Down, DOWN, down-doo-bee-DOWN-bee-doo-bee-doo etc. (in the correct descedning emoldy of course...I will not be able to get this out of my head.

And the first similar song I thought of when I started reading this thread was "Come and Go With Me".

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28 Sep 00 - 02:14 PM (#307461)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: Peter T.

I thought at that age, and still think, that the rules and rituals of making out in that period were hideous and degrading; saturated with fear of loss of virtue, pregnancy, reputation, and grim with hypocrisy. It was not a happy game for many. I look back on it with no nostalgia at all. I was using "making out" in its more generic sense.

I am still concerned about the future of art schools. It is deeply depressing -- it seems as if art schools have been drifting towards some ridiculous notion that they are there for the job market.

yours, Peter T.

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28 Sep 00 - 02:24 PM (#307465)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: Mbo

Like my favorite Kinks song says "I'm NOT like everybody else." Yeah right, Spaw. I'm trying to build a career here. Oh, maybe YOU'D like to come down HERE, pay for my plane ticket so I can go kiss the one I want to kiss, while YOU can do all my homework, and they'd damn sure better be A's. And I wasn't lying about this place. ECU School of Art is the best art school in the state. Only slackers and playuhs spend more time doing the nasty than getting good grades. This isn't highschool anymore, this is the big time, and we work ten times harder than we actually would if we had a job. Get real, I've got work to do. I have neither the time nor the desire to go around feeling up girls in cars. Or anywhere else for that matter. And if that makes me a WIMP then so be it. "I don't want to live my life like everybody else, because I'm NOT like everybody else."

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28 Sep 00 - 02:39 PM (#307468)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: Peter T.

But what of art and beauty? (just joking, Mbo, keep up the good work).

yours, Peter T.

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28 Sep 00 - 03:13 PM (#307480)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: catspaw49

Yeah, right....Keep up the good work....nobody else ever had it like you..........right.....blah, blah........hopeless.

Hey PT.....I think we may have found another area where we disagree a bit! I know what you mean, but I see it differently.

How about a date Mets?

Spaw

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28 Sep 00 - 03:15 PM (#307482)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: Jim the Bart

And then?. . .And then?. . .

Spaw - where were you when I really needed this information? Like last week. At least it seems like last week. . .

Thanks also for including the real lesson, at least implicitly, by stopping where you did. A gentlemen never tells all. You have to leave something to the imagination.

Phewie on both Peter and Mbo. I agree with the master flatulater on this one. It's not about being a playuh. It's all about the dance of romance. It's not about conquest or subjective moral issues. It's about experiencing the beat of the heart. It's about tactile sensations. It's about pharamones, Jones. It's about finding out for yourself what's going on (that's Marvin Gaye you hear, singing softly in the background). Remember, Matt, my friend: What profits one to gain the world if you end up a dull boy, Jack. So as much as I will admire your initiative and hard work, don't forget to smell the roses, Moses. The age of discovery goes by much too quickly. And once it goes, it's gone. Someday you will be sitting there, rewinding your life experiences and running them once again across your minds eye. And it won't be an art class you choose to linger on. Some lessons you learn, some you absorb, some become you.

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28 Sep 00 - 03:28 PM (#307494)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: catspaw49

Beautiful Bart.....Just perfectly said!!!

Spaw

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28 Sep 00 - 03:33 PM (#307497)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: Mbo

Here's what I discovered today...clean your glass, don't over-agitate, and black does not reflect light!

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28 Sep 00 - 04:37 PM (#307553)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: Peter T.

I keep in my mind the picture of a dear girl friend of mine (not sexually), a 15 year old out in our local hiding place, puking from morning sickness, trying to decide if she is going to kill herself, wondering how to find some backstreet abortion, too terrified to tell her parents, and haunted by how much longer she was going to be able to keep on the school swimming team before it got obvious. The year: 1962. The reason: not well liked, and thought "putting out" would get some respect from the high school senior guys. And knew nothing about her own body. Oh, the dance of romance, the glorious vicious early 60's. (I am not saying this kind of thing has stopped, but some parts have changed in a few places, like the abortion part, thank god). Much of the rest is "guy talk" about playing sexual "chicken" in that era -- and I speak as a confirmed romantic.

yours, Peter T.

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28 Sep 00 - 05:10 PM (#307587)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: SINSULL

Uh, guys? You finished yet?
I have a 45RPM of Thomas Wayne doing "Tragedy". I'll have to dig it out and see the date. Maybe we're both right.

Spaw, leave Mbo alone. And Mbo, if you want Spaw to leave you alone, stop feeding him (and Kendall) lines begging to be answered. All this talk about adolescent sex and petting...just how the hell am I supposed to sleep tonight? Add to it Sophocleese with ostriches and Charlton Heston. OH OH TRAGEDY. BOOONNGGG!

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28 Sep 00 - 05:24 PM (#307606)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: catspaw49

How about a date Sins?

Peter, your point is well taken and I would agree that there was and often still is, a sad and tragic side to the whole thing. This place has such an odd effect on us all doesn't it? It only takes a few words to trigger a graphic memory and in this case mine took a different direction than yours, one to a happier and more innocent memory of a time I can never recapture but wouldn't trade. In a different mood, I may well have gone in your direction.

Spaw

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28 Sep 00 - 05:37 PM (#307614)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: domenico

what does this site have against brackets???!!!!

Sheesh, a guy can't even post a good "" around here...

To the confused, the title of that last rant was:

"...bemoaning the state of Art Schools today"

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28 Sep 00 - 05:40 PM (#307621)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: Peter T.

Yes. And I apologise for dumping on what was actually a fun thread. As you say, sometimes things just hit an old nerve, and bring bad memories. She went on to be fairly happy, and is now a grandmother, I hear. So we go on.
yours, Peter T.

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28 Sep 00 - 05:49 PM (#307625)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: Peter T.

My last was posted in reply to CP's.
yours, Peter T.

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28 Sep 00 - 06:54 PM (#307669)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: SINSULL

Re: Tragedy.Wayne, Thomas

b. Thomas Wayne Perkins, 22 July 1940, Battsville, Mississippi, USA, d. 15 August 1971, Tennessee, USA. Wayne was a classic one-hit artist, the younger brother of Luther Perkins, the guitarist who developed and first played the trademark two-string guitar style behind Johnny Cash. Wayne attended Humes High School in Memphis, where a few years earlier the young Elvis Presley had come and gone with little fanfare. There Wayne formed a group called the De-Lons, which was recorded by Scotty Moore, guitarist for Presley, for the Fernwood Records label, which Moore co-owned. That first single did nothing, but Wayne's second single for Fernwood, a weepy ballad titled "Tragedy", made it to number 5 in the US national chart. The song had renewed life in 1961 as a hit for the Fleetwoods. Wayne recorded for other labels but was unable to follow that hit, although Presley recorded a song he had written, "The Girl Next Door Went A Walking", in 1960. Wayne eventually moved into production work, but his life was tragically cut short when he was killed in a car collision near Memphis in 1971.

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28 Sep 00 - 06:57 PM (#307674)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: catspaw49

What a Tragedy.

..........sorry, had to be said...........

Spaw

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28 Sep 00 - 10:00 PM (#307855)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: Metchosin

A date Spaw? Anytime.........the dance wasn't just on the floor.....

Peter T. Yup, your right too, but as the Animals eventually said "Pain, more pain, but I laughed much louder then.......

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28 Sep 00 - 10:46 PM (#307892)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: WyoWoman

Still, there's a great deal to be said for taking it slowly and working up to intimacy, if that's what you want. (Or collapsing on top of each other in a frenzied heap going at it like Little Bunny Foo-foo, if you're more in that mood ...) But what's icky and unsensual these days is the quest for quickly "closing the deal" or moving on.

And I don't know that taking things slowly and building up a good head of steam, so to speak, is equivalent to sexual gamesmanship. It's more in the nature of walking down a path you don't know well rather than dashing headlong into unfamiliar territory, assuming because you've done It before, you've done It with This Someone. It's always different, or ought to be. Otherwise we're not dealing with individuals, but with some projection of what's going on inside our own heads. (The larger ones, on top.)

ww

duplicate posting deleted
- elf/joeclone -

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28 Sep 00 - 10:54 PM (#307897)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: catspaw49

So Pansy...Say I pick you up in my T-bird and we go check out the Nautilus?

Spaw

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28 Sep 00 - 11:59 PM (#307964)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: katlaughing

Gee, Spaw, ya sure know how to get a gyrl all worked up! Really beautifully written, darlin'. Reminds me of the dance we went to from the Mducat Juke Joint, wasn't it? Oops! Does Karen know about that?**BG**

This all came at the close of the 60's for me and I ended up the way of Peter's friend, except that I had never even heard of abortion so didn't even know if it was or was not an option.(I later found out it wasn't available in Colorado. Someone I knew wound up going to New Mexico for a legal *D&C*.)

I do remember not wanting to do the parallel bars and such in gym class and hating our macho gym teacher because she was a bitch about it. I was expected to leave school, which I did, in the middle of my next to last year. I completed that year, with a home teacher. I was suddenly married at 16, a mother at barely 17; my last year of high school never to be.

I do not regret this, though, and have never wished it otherwise. Truth be known, I loved all of the making out, esp. in his 1963 Ford Galaxie convertible, esp. out in the desert in the middle of winter, with the high Rocky Mountain sun warming up our bodies, while the cold air teased certain parts of mine to attention. The main thing that was different for me, by then, from what Spaw has portrayed, is I knew that I wanted IT as much as he did and I made no secret about it. I didn't care if I was considered easy, a slut or anything else. In fact I announced to him, that I thought "god had invented sex to be enjoyed!"

Later on, it seemed this insistent urge might not have all been hormonal to me; when I learned about reincarnation and such, it seemed romantic at the least, divinely ordained at the best, to believe my son was knocking on the door, so to speak, urging us to *plant the seed* that would become the wonderful, loving child he is.

I went on with no stigma, even though it was not the common thing it seems to be, today, for girls to get preggers in high school. I did also go on to champion the right of girls to know about and have available birth control, so they needn't go through what Peter's friend did.

I don't know how they do it these days, because quite frankly the fear of pregnancy seems mild to me, compared to the fear of AIDS, human papiloma virus (which caused cervical cancer in my oldest daughter, from her very first sexual experience,) hepatitis, and all of the other STDs out there. I know there is some romance left because she, my son, and I have talked about it. I made sure they were armed with as much information as they wanted and needed. Unfortunately for her, she still wanted to believe in the good of someone she didn't know very well and let him talk her into not using a condom. I guess some things never changed, eh?

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29 Sep 00 - 12:34 AM (#307977)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: Jim the Bart

As much as I like to engage the imagination from time to time, I do acknowledge both Peter T. and Kat's reality checks. The fact of the matter is that "all this freedom" has really made things tough for young people. As I see it, our culture has always placed too much weight on s*x while forgetting it's symbiotic relationship to "true heart romance". There is a disconnect now that makes things tougher than they were when we were young. The expectations are different, as are the payoffs.

But I still believe in even "third rate romance". And as I sit here right now, with the doe-eyed romantic gently tucked away somewhere in the back of my mind, the cynic takes the floor and poses his questions: Haven't we had enough? Can't we get past this? Won't we ever get this out of our system? And I say "no, sir. Not in this life."

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29 Sep 00 - 12:45 AM (#307983)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: katlaughing

I dunno, Bart. In spite of what I wrote, I did have all kinds of romantic notions about the sex and what I thought it should lead to, which it didn't. We were divorced 5 years later, me with two babies.

I think because I was so honest with my kids, they grew up with a much better idea of what real romantic love can be and how one can have it with or without the sex, and that sex doesn't necessarily lead to romantic love.

Frankly, I am glad my youngest, at 23, has the ability to disconnect. While she has no illusions and can enjoy a tumble with the one she calls her f***buddy, she still has a romantic's heart, albeit with more realistic expectations. One day, I know, she will find someone, when she is ready to look, who has a love of old poetry like she does; who loves horses the way she does; who wants to run his fingers through her long, long auburn hair and all of the other romantic things and it will be good.

I think the third time being married has worked so well for me because I had the experience of learning the separation of sex and romantic love. Too many people get them confused.

Oh, hell, here I've gone and kept this going in a serious direction when it really was just for fun! Ah, well, it's interesting, anyway.

Thanks,

kat

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29 Sep 00 - 12:53 AM (#307986)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: WyoWoman

You are SO on, 'Spaw ...

ww

(Did you get my t-bird photo? My email evidently went blooey for a while and may still be puny...)

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29 Sep 00 - 01:46 AM (#308009)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: Lonesome EJ

Just read your steamy little remembrance of High School romance,Catspaw.That was a jewel. Those drive-in nights with all those steamed-up windows.All those James Bond films I only saw the first half of.That perfumed garden in the backseat of my '61 Galaxy.The prim and proper manner of that girl you had admired in study hall melted completely away. The hot taste of a kiss that stayed in your mouth til you fell asleep,and the smell of her cologne you found in the collar of your shirt the next morning.And those bra clasps..just when I got good,they moved 'em up front. Hello!

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29 Sep 00 - 09:19 AM (#308114)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: Robby

Can we get back to the "dum-dum" songs for a minute, 'cause this one has been driving me nuts since yesterday. Does anyone remember the name of the female recording artist who sang a song that went something like this:

Ah-dum-dum-a-diddely-dum. Oh, yeah!
Ah-dum-dum-a-diddely-dum. Sing it out.

I thing it was either Theresa Brewer or Brenda Lee, but then it could be someone else entirely.

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29 Sep 00 - 10:11 AM (#308138)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: catspaw49

While we're all working on Robby's, I feel a need to tie this offshoot up a bit. (and I got your pictures Pansy...great lookin' Bird!!!)

Its funny how a few words can trigger memories and the beauty of the 'Cat is that we are generally open and trusting enough to share the experiences, be they good or bad or somewhere in between the two. There were lots of bad times I remember and lots of good ones too. Whatever the feelings we all have, its a fact that we can only go through it once and the sadness I feel for those days is accompanied by equal parts of joy. We discussed some time ago that we no longer have the traditional "rites of passage" that were an integral part of many tribal cultures and that things like the above and "going to the prom" may be what we have substituted.

Still, the best thing to come out of the above ramblings by a number of us is a closer feel for each other and a better idea of who we all are. This doesn't happen many times in our 3-D worlds and makes the 'Cat and its people quite special. Thanks gang.

And now back to Doo-Wop City............Robby, I got no idea!

Spaw

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29 Sep 00 - 10:14 AM (#308142)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: Jim the Bart

Kat - I think ping-ponging between "serious" and "fun" comes with the territory, whether talking about this or going through it. I like your thoughts on recognizing that romance and sex are different and on being able to figure out which one you should be anticipating. Sometimes that's very hard to do. These thing seem so much clearer in the afterglow. We haven't even mentioned that other bugaboo "love", which is a whole different conversation.

There's a great country song about relighting the old romantic pilot light called "Kissing in the Car" by John Barry. It got some soul to it.

Sorry I can't help you out, Robby, but both Theresa Brewer and Brenda Lee make me break out in hives. And I have to get back to work now. Which is neither sexy nor romantic, but which I do love. Kinda. Sorta. Drat. Have yourselves a wonderful day.
Bart

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29 Sep 00 - 10:40 AM (#308156)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: Robby

Thanks for tryin' Spaw and Bart. By the way, Spaw, I had no idea that you were such a sensitive romantic.

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29 Sep 00 - 10:41 AM (#308158)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: SINSULL

Definitely, Brenda Lee. Now it's going through my head. Thanks for nothing. There must be other lyrics...

Kat, you get more special every day. An amazing lady.

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29 Sep 00 - 10:43 AM (#308159)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: Mbo

Actually, Bart, it's called "Kiss Me In The Car" and was the very first song from John Berry way back in oh..1994. Great song...his stuff reminds me SO much of being on Okinawa. Glad to see he's still going strong despite the brain anyeurism he had a couple years ago. BTW you can get the lyrics for "Kiss Me In The Car" right here.

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29 Sep 00 - 10:47 AM (#308161)
Subject: RE: Here's a tough one, 'Catters!
From: SINSULL

No it's "Dum Dum" by Brenda Lee. Go hear and subject yourself to it.
http://www.icast.com/music/1,,1026-5552984,00.html

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