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17 Nov 00 - 08:58 AM (#342285) Subject: YOU ARE IMPORTANT!! From: Allan C. I have been thinking a lot lately about the people who come to the Mudcat. I have especially been mulling over the various incidents in which a GUEST or member has indicated some doubt as to whether they will remain among us here. Virtually every time this happens there ensues a tremendous outpouring of pleading and cajoling to persuade that person to stay. What does this say about us? Why do we do this? We have lots of members. Why does it matter so much whether we lose one from time to time? I know what my own answers/feelings are. I would be curious to know your thoughts. |
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17 Nov 00 - 09:28 AM (#342309) Subject: RE: YOU ARE IMPORTANT!! From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler Some of the old threads refreshed have reminded me of once regular posters who now post no more. I started here looking for answers to particular questions and didn't look at other threads until the whole outpouring of concern for 'Spaw in his illness made me warm to this community and I started to read the BS threads, get sucked in to the wacky humour in the Tavern, NYCFTTS etc. I feel I get the best of the exchanges as I, having no musical skill or wisdom to impart, have learned an awful lot of useful things from the serious threads (and picked up a few new jokes) while all I have contributed in return are some terrible old jokes and lame anecdotes. I hope none of my contributions have been responsible for anyone leaving, it's bad enough that my singing can empty a room! RtS |
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17 Nov 00 - 09:44 AM (#342323) Subject: RE: YOU ARE IMPORTANT!! From: Dave the Gnome No I'm not!!! I have five kids!!! O-oh - Sorry, just re-read the thread it doesn't say IMPOTANT after all....... Dave the red face Gnome;-) (Not trivialising - just bored) |
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17 Nov 00 - 10:27 AM (#342353) Subject: RE: YOU ARE IMPORTANT!! From: SINSULL Allan, I am fascinated when members beg people to stay. My own feelings are: Stay if you want to, contribute if you want to. Go away if you want to. BUT there is still that little voice inside reminding me how much I have gotten from Mudcat and knowing that it is directly attributable to the diversity of people here. New people add to the mix. And most, if not all 'Catters, are kind, generous souls. There is that undeniable element of "Stay, we want to make you happy." Speaking of which: Allan, you seem to happier than usual. I have noticed a huge change in your postings since the Getaway. Want to share the secret? Are you in love? Or did some newly acquired CD change your life? A new instrument? Or have you and the "Adventure" guitar finally settled in together? Mary |
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17 Nov 00 - 10:30 AM (#342356) Subject: RE: YOU ARE IMPORTANT!! From: Gervase Which reminds me, what became of the Gargoyle? |
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17 Nov 00 - 10:30 AM (#342357) Subject: RE: YOU ARE IMPORTANT!! From: Little Hawk Durn right Ah'm impoh'tant! Ah'm glad y'all done cottoned on t' that at last... Heh! Heh! :-D Actually, I've been a little surprised sometimes at the outpouring of "please don't leave!!!" stuff that is prompted now and then...it's sort of like a soap opera. But I guess it's understandable, because we do get a sense of knowing each other that becomes pretty strong over a period of time. I think sometimes one person or another may need a break from Mudcat for a while. Then maybe they'll come back, or maybe they'll move on. That's life. - LH |
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17 Nov 00 - 10:37 AM (#342360) Subject: RE: YOU ARE IMPORTANT!! From: Jeri I think it comes down to human nature. We identify with other people - even strangers. I try to think how I would feel in their place. (I'm probably wrong as much or more often than right.) I don't try to convince them to stay when they don't want to be here. It's a bit like trying to get your parents or your kids interested in the music you like. I do try to convince them they'll be welcome if they choose to hang around. |
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17 Nov 00 - 10:46 AM (#342368) Subject: RE: YOU ARE IMPORTANT!! From: Little Neophyte I've always thought Allan projected a happy spirit around here. Why, he is always falling in love. Hey Allan, I'll tell you my answers/feelings about why members are important to me if you tell me yours. Little Neo
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17 Nov 00 - 11:02 AM (#342375) Subject: RE: YOU ARE IMPORTANT!! From: Jeri Regarding members who've been around for a while leaving, some of us have needed a break, and perhaps others made the break final. I found myself reacting too emotionally to what went on here, and took a step back. I needed some perspective. I eventually realised that the problem lay in my own reactions and not anything wrong with Mudcat. I was too involved, too serious, too emotional, and I took things too personally. I found a way to not allow myself to get that wrapped up in things that happen here. Others may not be able to do that, and it's to their credit that they realise it and decide to avoid the triggers if they can't eliminate/mitigate the root cause. Opting out is a serious and terrible thing when it comes to life in general, but leaving someplace like Mudcat isn't tragic and isn't necessarily final. It's their decision, and I can respect it. There are others who simply don't find what they want here, or enough of it, and move on. That's their decision - Mudcat can't be all things to all people. |
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17 Nov 00 - 11:28 AM (#342396) Subject: RE: YOU ARE IMPORTANT!! From: Allan C. I think some of the comments posted so far reflect my feelings. We are here and return here because it is a place of comfort. We feel an equality here which is uncommon in the outside world. We love our music and are bound to each other through it. We know how nice it feels to be here and want to share that. We are especially sensitive to the potential loss of someone who has not yet felt that or who, for some reason, no longer feels that. We know that the beauty is shadowed from time to time by various factors. But we also know, (especially those who have been here for quite some time,) that the shadows fade and the beauty of this place shines ever brighter. Here we begin to know one another in ways which only the closest of friends can. SINSULL and Little Neophyte give testimony to that in their posts above. They recognize things about me that I am not aware I project. It is true that I am always in love. I love the people here. I love the music. And on a more personal level, I have been in love with a wonderful woman for more than eight years. I was truly recharged by going to the Getaway. I felt that last year as well after attending for the first time. In recent weeks I have found some local folks with whom to make some music. David C. is one of them. This is indeed exciting for me. But this thread is not about me. If you want to know more, just send me an email (see Mudcat Resources) or PM. I'll talk your ears off. But getting back to the subject: I have simply been admiring how much heart we put into urging folks to stick around. |
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17 Nov 00 - 12:04 PM (#342421) Subject: RE: YOU ARE IMPORTANT!! From: Jim the Bart Personally, it's not as important to me whether people stay or leave; that is their choice. I just don't want people feeling that they're being forced to leave when they have good reason to stay. There are a lot of heated exchanges here - but that should be OK. Just because I may think you have the absolutely most wrong-headed idea about something, doesn't mean I want you to leave. I want to know what you think; I want the chance to change your mind or, more importantly, have my mind changed. We should be able to present our own points of view and hope that, as they collide, some new understanding emerges. In a way, tthis is a better p[lace to do this than "real life". We're all just characters on the screen here; ideas have to stand on their own, without the support of a winning smile or engratiating personality. If someone feels they have "embarassed themselves" by missing the humor in a posting, or jumping to wrong conclusions and flaming someone, they shouldn't have to feel they need to leave. We all do that at one time or another. If someone screws up, admit it, take your lumps, and show us what else ya got. I haven't been posting all that long, and I have never met a 'Catter face to face, but I have never felt like a stranger here. If there is a "clique" (and I don't believe there is) I don't mind. Everyone has a right to make their own friendships. All I ask is a chance to play too, from timt to time. My one fear is that I'm going to bore people - that people are going to see my name and "scroll on down the road". I can be opinionated. And I have a "keen sense of the obvious". I often speak before thinking - and once posted the inane/obscure/dumb comment, it's out there. I hope that when I do that people are forgiving. I hope that when I cross a line, whether I knew it was there or not, someone with better sense will take me aside (that's what PM's are for) and let me know about it. Or scald me right out in front of god and everybody. As long as you can take as well as give, and you don't hold grudges, that's fine. gotta go Bart |
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17 Nov 00 - 12:18 PM (#342428) Subject: RE: YOU ARE IMPORTANT!! From: SINSULL ZZZZZZZZZZ...OOOPS Sorry Bart. Must have dozed off. That's a joke not a flame. I read your posts and sometimes even agree with them. This thread is somewhat timely with Praise's decision to leave Mudcat forever. I hope she too just takes a break and comes back when she is ready. Praise's lifestyle and philosophy is worlds apart from my own but I find myself agreeing with most of her opinions or at least being forced to reevaluate my own. I will miss her. |
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17 Nov 00 - 12:21 PM (#342431) Subject: RE: YOU ARE IMPORTANT!! From: catspaw49 .....ZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.......... ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ............. ....ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ. ...............snork...roulfg...snrfl............uh, yeah.....Is Bart done yet? .........sorry, I kinda' corked off there................... Spaw |
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17 Nov 00 - 12:32 PM (#342440) Subject: RE: YOU ARE IMPORTANT!! From: GUEST,Matt_R Let's just say the Mudcat is on a downhill slide of late, and some of us find other things to be of far greater interest. |
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17 Nov 00 - 12:33 PM (#342441) Subject: RE: YOU ARE IMPORTANT!! From: mousethief Riveting, Bart. I hung on every word. Hey, people come, people go. The thing is, people who really get a lot out of the 'Cat (or any other thing for that matter) tend to become like little evangelists. They want everybody to enjoy it as much as they do. And when someone says "I'm leaving" they think -- what did we do wrong, that this person didn't enjoy it as much as I do? Maybe we weren't nice enough. Maybe they are a little oversensitive but will warm up in time. HEY DON'T LEAVE! Or so it seems to this one.
Alex |
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17 Nov 00 - 12:45 PM (#342451) Subject: RE: YOU ARE IMPORTANT!! From: catspaw49 GREAT IDEA ALEX!!!! Skip the T-Shirts and patches and all that stuff........Let's get in a supply of Mudcat Little Evangelist Dash Sculptures!!!!!!! Maybe something in a glow-in-the-dark thingy. How about a catfish with Max's face jumping from a banjo and playing a Dobro? WOW!!!! Anybody got any sources on these things? Spaw |
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17 Nov 00 - 12:50 PM (#342454) Subject: RE: YOU ARE IMPORTANT!! From: GUEST,Russ I am happy to let people leave. I've never been one of the "Please Stay" posters. I don't need additional participants to validate myself and my participation in Mudcat. If people have a problem with Mudcat it is truly THEIR problem. |
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17 Nov 00 - 12:53 PM (#342456) Subject: RE: YOU ARE IMPORTANT!! From: mousethief Spaw, you never cease to amuse me.
O..O |
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17 Nov 00 - 12:53 PM (#342457) Subject: RE: YOU ARE IMPORTANT!! From: catspaw49 So I guess you won't be wanting one of the dash sculptures huh Russ? Spaw |
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17 Nov 00 - 01:01 PM (#342471) Subject: RE: YOU ARE IMPORTANT!! From: BlueJay Allan- IMO it seems the Mudcat is truly the sum of it's individual members, so when a member takes leave it somehow diminishes us all. I value the insights of 'Catters I disagree with on many subjects, and it has been a broadening experience for me. So I don't like it when a valued Mudcatter takes his/her leave. I don't recall actively encouraging anyone to stay against their will, (though I have wanted to). I can only speak for myself, but when Mbo quit, I was bummed. I didn't chime into the protest, as so many others seemed to be doing it adequately. But I thought that the Mudcat would be the poorer without him. I am truly sad to see Praise go. I'll never forget all her poems welcoming new Mudcatters, as well as her thoughtful insights. I haven't jumped in on this one because Praise said she would not read nor respond to such tactics. She has, however, stated that she is still personal friends with various Mudcatters, so I think there's hope she'll come back. Needs a hiatus, maybe. Perhaps she's had too many negative comments on her faith. I think the music may bring her back eventually. I hope so, I'll miss her. I think the same forces are in evident in the eager way in which we welcome new members! Thanks, BlueJay |
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17 Nov 00 - 01:11 PM (#342480) Subject: RE: YOU ARE IMPORTANT!! From: SINSULL Spaw, If it is a combination Dashboard Ornament/Nose Flute - put me down for 5. |
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17 Nov 00 - 02:18 PM (#342527) Subject: RE: YOU ARE IMPORTANT!! From: DougR SINSULL: one for each nose? :>) DougR |
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17 Nov 00 - 02:22 PM (#342532) Subject: RE: YOU ARE IMPORTANT!! From: SINSULL Doug, I wouldn't make fun of your disabilities if you had any. Mary |
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17 Nov 00 - 02:30 PM (#342542) Subject: RE: YOU ARE IMPORTANT!! From: catspaw49 Well, I think we can work the Nose Flute in but it'll bump up the price by about a buck. The good news is that for the same amount they can also add a kazoo fixed atop's Max's head!!! Far out huh? So let's get those orders in and see what we can do on a quantity purchase. Sins is in for 5, Alex oughta' be good for 2....maybe send one to his ex-wife..., Doug ought to go for a couple at least. And surely Allan.................. Let's get those orders in NOW folks!!!!!!!!! Spaw |
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17 Nov 00 - 03:10 PM (#342559) Subject: RE: YOU ARE IMPORTANT!! From: SINSULL I see a serious design flaw there Spaw. Wouldn't it make better sense to put the nose flute on Max's head and the kazoo in the body so the ambiorificed among us can play both at the same time? We've wandered a bit from Allan's original thoughts. And I can't think of a single way to bring it back. Help. |
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17 Nov 00 - 03:14 PM (#342563) Subject: RE: YOU ARE IMPORTANT!! From: Amos Alex said: I have especially been mulling over the various incidents in which a GUEST or member has indicated some doubt as to whether they will remain among us here. Virtually every time this happens there ensues a tremendous outpouring of pleading and cajoling to persuade that person to stay.
What does this say about us? Why do we do this? We have lots of members. Why does it matter so much whether we lose one from time to time? Like almost any weaving o fpeople into groups, one of the strong elements is that agreement of the group makes the members feel stronger and righter. This holds true for the most enlightened groups, as well as the most ornery mobs. A |
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17 Nov 00 - 03:19 PM (#342571) Subject: RE: YOU ARE IMPORTANT!! From: MK Where is Al Franken ("Stuart") when we really need him? |
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17 Nov 00 - 03:21 PM (#342573) Subject: RE: YOU ARE IMPORTANT!! From: DougR Well, Mary, I probably have them. They just don't show. Spaw, I'll take a couple of those things to hang on my wall. DougR |
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17 Nov 00 - 03:22 PM (#342575) Subject: RE: YOU ARE IMPORTANT!! From: mousethief I said no such thing. Allan said that. I said, "Come on, baby, light my fire." No wait. That was Jim Morrison. I said, "people who really get a lot out of the 'Cat (or any other thing for that matter) tend to become like little evangelists."
Alex |
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17 Nov 00 - 03:25 PM (#342579) Subject: RE: YOU ARE IMPORTANT!! From: catspaw49 .........and you can see where that went Alex............. Spaw |
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17 Nov 00 - 03:28 PM (#342582) Subject: RE: YOU ARE IMPORTANT!! From: mousethief With you around, Spaw, we can never be sure where anything we say is going to go. The answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind....
Alex |
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17 Nov 00 - 04:21 PM (#342613) Subject: RE: YOU ARE IMPORTANT!! From: Bill D ...sat and looked at this box for 5 minutes, but I couldn't think of anyrhing clever to post...so I won't....but I'm glad I'm important...(though it reminds me of the sign that says:
"Remember-YOU are absolutely unique, just like everyone else!" |
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17 Nov 00 - 08:01 PM (#342717) Subject: RE: YOU ARE IMPORTANT!! From: Little Neophyte I don't mind people coming and going around here. Seems to be the natural order of things like anywhere else. But.......if they leave because they are mad at me, well then we got a big problem because that makes me fall apart. Little Neo |
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17 Nov 00 - 10:54 PM (#342783) Subject: RE: YOU ARE IMPORTANT!! From: hesperis Would someone send me a link to the thread where Praise left? I haven't been much on here lately, and missed it. |
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17 Nov 00 - 11:00 PM (#342790) Subject: RE: YOU ARE IMPORTANT!! From: Bill D it was the 'serious ethical question' thread...near the end... |