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18 Dec 00 - 10:07 AM (#359015) Subject: Find a 1916 IRA ballad From: JedMarum A history I am reading mentions a popular ballad from the days of the 1916 Easter Rebellion. I would love to find the rest of the lyrics to this song, and the melody, if possible. In fact, any other info I can find on this ballad would be most appreciated. The song has a verse that says:
Unless we are to strike Our despot lords who fear no threat But reverence the pike Oh, do be wise, leave moral force The strength of thought and pen And all the value of discourse To lily-livered men. |
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18 Dec 00 - 01:15 PM (#359128) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Find a 1916 IRA ballad From: paddymac Powerful message in those lyrics, Jed. The style of the language seems to fit that era well. Maybe it might be found in some works of poetry from that era. I'll take a look at the few that I have and see if I can help. |
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18 Dec 00 - 03:24 PM (#359213) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Find a 1916 IRA ballad From: Jed at Work I suspect so, paddymac. I was reading a chapter about Michael Collins, and this verse used as backdrop for setting the era ... the writer thought it encapsulated the feeling of some just prior to the Rising. I was frankly more curious about the song! |
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18 Dec 00 - 04:04 PM (#359242) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Find a 1916 IRA ballad From: GUEST,Big Mick I will check the various sources I have, my friend.
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18 Dec 00 - 04:26 PM (#359259) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Find a 1916 IRA ballad From: Jed at Work Thank Mick, I thought I might hear from you on this one! Have you read much history from this era? I read a great book on Michael Collins, and this one is a history on the Irish Civil War. Very interesting time for me ... days that my Irish imigrant relatives live through, on THIS side of the pond, but with a keen interest, none-the-less. |
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18 Dec 00 - 04:36 PM (#359269) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Find a 1916 IRA ballad From: mike putt I have put the word out to a couple of pals and we will see what happens |
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18 Dec 00 - 05:45 PM (#359325) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Find a 1916 IRA ballad From: MartinRyan Never heard this one. My "ear" suggests The Foggy Dew as a likely air. My head says the language - even ignoring the pike reference - suggests a 19C. source. Regards |
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18 Dec 00 - 07:17 PM (#359416) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Find a 1916 IRA ballad From: Susanne (skw) Could it be a poem by Padraig Pearse? |
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19 Dec 00 - 12:03 AM (#359594) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Find a 1916 IRA ballad From: paddymac Susanne - it does have sort of a "pearse" feel about it, doesn't it. I haven't stumbled on it yet, but my poetry collection is rather limited. My curiosity is aroused. I sure hope somebody out there finds it. |
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19 Dec 00 - 12:29 AM (#359610) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Find a 1916 IRA ballad From: Big Mick Yeah, Jed. I have read extensively on this era, as I would suspect you have. I haven't found it yet, but am still looking. Mick |
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19 Dec 00 - 02:59 PM (#359950) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Find a 1916 IRA ballad From: Jimmy C I know most of them and never came acros this one. It may well be a poem, I will search some more. If it was very well known in 1916 it is hardly by Pearse although it does have a certain air about it that could be his, maybe he taught it to his pupils, many of them fought in 1916. It reminds me more of R.D. Joyce, Thomas Davis, or Brian O'Higgins. |
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19 Dec 00 - 03:53 PM (#359987) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Find a 1916 IRA ballad From: Jed at Work The author who quoted the ballad simply said that it was a popular ballad of the day. He was talking about the period between the 1916 Rising and the Irish Civil War. Unfortunately, he did not credit the song's composer. |
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13 Oct 06 - 07:29 AM (#1857681) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'But why should words my frenzy whet...' From: Jim Dixon I found a somewhat longer quote in the book, "Michael Collins: A Biography," by Tim Pat Coogan, page 13, found by Google Book Search. The only source given is "Mary Collins Powell quotes a ballad of the time, 'which, no doubt, left a lasting impression on Michael's young mind.' " Great faith I have in moral force Great trust in thought and pen I know the value of discourse To sway the minds of men But why should words my frenzy whet Unless we are to strike Our despot lords who fear no threat But reverence the pike Oh, do be wise, leave moral force The strength of thought and pen And all the value of discourse To lily-livered men. But if you covet not to die Of hunger in a dyke If life we prize is liberty A Pike – A Pike – A Pike. |
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18 Jun 11 - 06:12 PM (#3172581) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'But why should words my frenzy whet...' From: Tim_McShane Hi, All; First post here on Mudcat, though I've been lurking a few months. I've learned a great deal from the community here, and I'm delighted to have an opportunity to contribute to help "pay my dues," however small that contribution might be. Jim's longer quote was the trigger for me--a refrain including "A Pike, a pike, a pike!" kinda stuck with me. I think Martin wins the virtual pint of Guinness on this one--the song is indeed 19th C. Georges Denis Zimmermann makes reference to this one in his "Songs of Irish Rebellion: Irish Political Street Ballads and Rebels Songs, 1780-1900." He doesn't have the full lyrics or tune, though, and it isn't included it in his "Selections" section--which, I'm sure, is why no one else may have picked up on it by now. The refrain (the last 8 lines Jim quotes) is listed on Zimmermann's page 47. Zimmermann states it's taken from "The Song of the Pike," published in the May 13th, 1848 edition of the short-lived newspaper, "The United Irishman." Zimmermann further records he consulted the "United Irishman" at the National Library of Ireland, in Dublin; seems like that's the place to look for a full set of lyrics, and any info regarding the tune. I understand Jed is still on the Mudcat; I hope a lead almost 11 years after the inquiry isn't too late to be of use! Cheers, - Tim |
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18 Jun 11 - 06:21 PM (#3172587) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'But why should words my frenzy whet...' From: Tim_McShane Jed, if you should be reading this, just what was the book you were reading that indicates this song was a popular ballad around the time of the '16 rising? Cheers, - Tim |
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26 Oct 11 - 10:52 PM (#3245377) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'But why should words my frenzy whet...' From: GUEST Tim, I first found this in "Michael COllins: The Man Who Made Ireland." And this is the first luck I've had searching for more on it... ~Tom |
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10 Mar 21 - 05:09 PM (#4097072) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'But why should words my frenzy whet...' From: GUEST,# The poem/song appear to be from 1848 or prior to that date. The following link will quote the entire poem I think. https://newspapers.bc.edu/?a=d&d=bpilott18480610-01.2.17&e=-------en-20--1--txt-txIN------- |
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10 Mar 21 - 05:46 PM (#4097079) Subject: LYRIC ADD From: GUEST,# See link at 10 Mar 21 - 05:09 PM |
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11 Mar 21 - 11:49 AM (#4097148) Subject: LYRIC ADD..' From: GUEST,# SONG OF THE PIKE Great faith I have in moral force, Great trust in thought and pen; I know the value of discourse, To sway the minds of men; But why should words our frenzy whet, Unless we are to strike Our despot lords, who fear no threat, But reverence the Pike ? Besides, the dialogue is slow – It hangs, and always hung; Where one man argues with a blow, The other with his tongue. The man who talks to me with swords, Guns, bayonets, and the like, Should not complain, if, shunning words, I answer with the Pike. A bard, when asked what earthly sound All music else surpasses, Replied, with sophistry profound, “The tinkling of the glasses” But on my ear another noise More rapturously strikes: And may we hear it soon, my boys! The crashing of the Pikes. Oh! Do be wise! Leave moral force, The strength of thought and pen, And all the value of discourse, To lily-liver’d men; But, if you’re yet not to die Of hunger in a dike If life we prize, or liberty – A Pike! A Pike! A Pike! In the newspaper article of 1848, it was not attributed to a named individual. |