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27 Jan 01 - 09:04 AM (#383563) Subject: curmudgeon wotz it mean ? From: bloozcat In the discussion of the word "git" that took place recently on these good pages..the word "curmudgeon" was used....I pride myself on having a pretty good knowledge of the English language,but I confess i have no idea about this word....have i lived a sheltered a sheltered life here In the hub of real English speaking ye olde London town...or Is this an uncommon word regards everday usage...Can anyone explain exactly what it means ans where it finds its true origins.... bloozingly yours.... bloozcat...London....England... http://communities.msn.co.uk/bluesandfolkmusic |
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27 Jan 01 - 09:08 AM (#383564) Subject: RE: curmudgeon wotz it mean ? From: Midchuck From the Oxford English Dictionary site: curmudgeon SYLLABICATION: cur·mudg·eon PRONUNCIATION: kr-mj´n NOUN : An ill-tempered person full of resentment and stubborn notions. ETYMOLOGY: Origin unknown. OTHER FORMS: cur·mudg´eon·ly — ADJECTIVE cur·mudg´eon·ry — NOUN Peter. |
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27 Jan 01 - 09:10 AM (#383565) Subject: RE: curmudgeon wotz it mean ? From: Midchuck Humm. Since the formatting didn't come through when I cut-and-pasted, it looks at the end as though I were an alternative definition for the word. They know me better than I realized they did. Peter. |
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27 Jan 01 - 09:33 AM (#383575) Subject: RE: curmudgeon wotz it mean ? From: bloozcat Dear Peter, Thanx a million mate....Is It a word In common usage....any others that know anything about this curious word i'd love to share your wisdom... regards.. bloozcat...London...England.... http://communities.msn.co.uk/bluesandfolkmusic |
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27 Jan 01 - 09:45 AM (#383586) Subject: RE: curmudgeon wotz it mean ? From: McGrath of Harlow We had a thread about this a bit back. In the course of which I came across this entry in a dictionary, which I think is rather fun:
curmudjeon, n. Etymology unknown. In the first edition of his Dictionary Dr Johnson doubtfully suggests as the origin of the word, coeur méchant , giving as the source of the suggestion "an unknown correspondent"; Ash, the compiler of an English Dictionary a little later, misunderstood this & boldly explained the word as derived from "Fr. coeur, "unknown" & mechant, "a correspondent"! |
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27 Jan 01 - 09:45 AM (#383587) Subject: RE: curmudgeon wotz it mean ? From: wysiwyg Well, guys, all I know is, ALL the ones who THINK they are curmudgeons, that I have ever met, are MEN who: Act like bristly porcupines (big hedgehogs) on the outside... And are instantly charmed and disarmed by GOOD WOMEN who smile and come close because... We see that the LOVELY bristles are merely a resilient cover for the big strong marshmallows of adorable goo inside. Don't make me come over there. I been practicing up extra on our parish's most feared example. Love my mudgie men! ~Susan |
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27 Jan 01 - 09:47 AM (#383589) Subject: RE: curmudgeon wotz it mean ? From: wysiwyg ... and of course a GOOD WOMAN does not want to change any man, and likes him exactly as he is, mudgerliness and all. Even if he makes her nuts. ~S~ |
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27 Jan 01 - 09:51 AM (#383593) Subject: RE: curmudgeon wotz it mean ? From: catspaw49 Hey blooz............See the "git" thread for a list of "Mudcat's Miserable Old Gits" and just substitute the word "curmudgeons." I forgot to add Troll to that list too. The word is in relatively common usage and around here it gets used a good bit. Try entering the word curmudgeon in the Super Search and you'll get a lot of hits. Spaw |
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27 Jan 01 - 09:56 AM (#383598) Subject: RE: curmudgeon wotz it mean ? From: Bernard At this rate, Spaw, you won't have any windows left! (distant whoosh of flying brick followed by tinkle of shattering glass) |
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27 Jan 01 - 09:57 AM (#383602) Subject: RE: curmudgeon wotz it mean ? From: wysiwyg giggliggliggle..... |
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27 Jan 01 - 10:00 AM (#383605) Subject: RE: curmudgeon wotz it mean ? From: Noreen LOL Peter |
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27 Jan 01 - 10:09 AM (#383610) Subject: RE: curmudgeon wotz it mean ? From: McGrath of Harlow Can a woman be a curmudgeon? I mean, yes of course she can, when it comes to the qualities involved, but does the word get used?
I think I probably would use it - but it's on the cusp. Like bastard.
Strangely enough, in my experience the term bugger is used indiscriminately of men, women, dogs, motor-cars, and intruments that are hard to tune.
There are mysteries here in the use of language that are beyond me. |
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27 Jan 01 - 10:14 AM (#383614) Subject: RE: curmudgeon wotz it mean ? From: wysiwyg I believe we are usually called [bitch], MoH, and not quite as affectionatly. When older, [old battle-axe]. Or, possibly, [eccentric]. Just not the same, [curmudgeonette]. Maybe, [curmudgeoness]. Sounds kind of official, eh? Curmudgena? ~S~ |
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27 Jan 01 - 12:25 PM (#383669) Subject: RE: curmudgeon wotz it mean ? From: Skeptic Susan, I think "curmudgeon" is gender neutral. Condider Dorothy Parker or Fran Libowitz. Also check out "The Portable Curmudgeon" by John Winokur. and/or his "Reurn of The Portable Curmudgeon" Modern useage has added the flavor of "big strong marshmallows of adorable goo" inside but the true curmudegeon is a WYSIWYG sort of person. (Sorry, couldn't resist). Just meet troll in person. Regards, John |
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27 Jan 01 - 12:31 PM (#383672) Subject: RE: curmudgeon wotz it mean ? From: Amos As the local archetype I deny all charges of marshmallow innards. I am rough an' tough an' fulla bristle, an' PTUTTUP yer DOOKS....just like Bert Lahr on the Yellow Brick Road! A |
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27 Jan 01 - 12:32 PM (#383673) Subject: RE: curmudgeon wotz it mean ? From: Amergin I don't know, WYS, I just tend to call women like that Susan..... |
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27 Jan 01 - 12:42 PM (#383683) Subject: RE: curmudgeon wotz it mean ? From: Dave the Gnome How weird! I jst found this thread immediately nect to the 'What does Git mean' thread. I think Harry Enfields old Gits are definite curmudgeons. I was once called a curmudgeon on air by Terry Wogan! My clain to fame. Cheers Dave the Gnome |
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27 Jan 01 - 01:28 PM (#383733) Subject: RE: curmudgeon wotz it mean ? From: Ebbie Perhaps a curmudgeon could also fairly be called a grrrrmudgeon? |
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27 Jan 01 - 02:24 PM (#383768) Subject: RE: curmudgeon wotz it mean ? From: McGrath of Harlow In which case if you wanted a female version of the word it'd surely be grrlmudgeon. But I think the words not not really gender specific, so long as there are female curmudgeons who will stomp anyone who calls them a bitch.
Nasty word that, "bitch", dunno why really. I wouldn't fel comfortable using it referring to a dog. And yet to call a man a dog might be quite complimentary, and the same should apply to women, given the generally pleasant nature of most real dogs, male or female, when treated decently.
Battleaxe on the other hand can be quite a compliment - and it's another example of the oddity of language, because I don't think you could use it of a bloke, even a Viking.
And bloke's another odd one, because I don't think you'd ever use it for a woman, except maybe in a jokey sort of way. (And I know Americans don't use the word anyway - I gather it's from the Shelta, the "ancient hybrid cant language of Irish gypsies and opipers, Irtish and Welsh travelling tinkers etc") But "guy" in the plural anyway appears to be non gender specific - "you guys". |
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27 Jan 01 - 03:17 PM (#383793) Subject: RE: curmudgeon wotz it mean ? From: NightWing <THREAD CREEP> To feel uncomfortable in referring to a female dog as a 'bitch' is to misuse the language. That is the correct word. The insult term is incorrect usage. I happened to see it in a headline in a newspaper a few weeks ago. If I remember correctly:
The mayor of one of Denver's suburbs is a well-known dog breeder. A fine site for people interested in words is One-Look Dictionaries. Search a whole PILE of on-line dictionaries from one search site. "Curmudgeon" returned hits at nine different dictionaries: Cambridge International Dictionary of English; WordNet Vocabulary Helper (NotreDame); AllWords.com - English with Multi-Lingual Search; Dictionary.com; Merriam-Webster's WWWebster Dictionary; The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language; The Wordsmyth English Dictionary-Thesaurus; Webster's Revised Unabridged, 1913 Edition; and World Wide Words. And if you can't remember the name of this site, the easiest way to get there is to go to Yahoo's front page. In the left-hand column is a major entry of "Reference". A sub-entry below that -- the second of three -- is "Dictionaries". Click that and One-Look shows up as one of their choices. I don't use any other dictionary anymore.
BB, |
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27 Jan 01 - 03:33 PM (#383808) Subject: RE: curmudgeon wotz it mean ? From: Little Hawk In common usage in the last 20 years (in North America at least) "curmudgeon" has generally been taken to mean a crusty, cantankerous man, usually an older man (50's and on up from there), who is somewhat abrasive and argumentative, but still basically loveable. TV sitcoms almost always had at least one curmudgeon in them, who drove much of the humour on the show. Archie Bunker was, in a sense, an extreme curmudgeon, but he's not typical of the genre, being too "political". Maude was a great example of a female curmudgeon, and the really OLD gal on the same show, even more so. They're crabby, argumentative, perfectionist, demanding, unreasonable, and irascible. And they're supposed to be lovable? Yuck. In real life they are about as lovable as a canker on your tongue or a boil on your buttocks. Usually. I grant there may be some exceptions. I was once referred to as a curmudgeon by a woman I know, because of some articles I wrote for the local paper in Orillia... Okay, that's her opinion. I should've written one about her. - LH |
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27 Jan 01 - 03:36 PM (#383815) Subject: RE: curmudgeon wotz it mean ? From: wysiwyg Mudgie, Mudgie Men. giggling uncontrollably.... thanks all.... I'm gone! ~S~ |
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27 Jan 01 - 03:49 PM (#383821) Subject: RE: curmudgeon wotz it mean ? From: McGrath of Harlow Thanks for that dictionary site, NightWing. I've bookmarked it. I love dictionaries. If I win the lottery I'm getting a subscription to the Online Oxford Engish Dictionary (...it must be possible to hack into it...)
Yes, I know bitch is technically the right word, but it still feels disrespectful. Like calling the smallest puppy in a litter the runt. Anyway, if she's as intelligent as a lot of them are, she'll understand enough human language to feel entitled to bite you if you call her that. |
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27 Jan 01 - 03:54 PM (#383825) Subject: RE: curmudgeon wotz it mean ? From: wysiwyg Then there's Sugar Dogs... ~S~ |
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27 Jan 01 - 04:38 PM (#383841) Subject: RE: curmudgeon wotz it mean ? From: GUEST I'm now 70 years old, and I've been in advanced curmudgeon training for 3 years and I'm getting pretty good at it. |
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27 Jan 01 - 05:07 PM (#383863) Subject: RE: curmudgeon wotz it mean ? From: Bert The official Mudcat Dictionary says that Curmudgeon means Bill D. |
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27 Jan 01 - 05:32 PM (#383883) Subject: RE: curmudgeon wotz it mean ? From: wysiwyg It figures. I'm starting to like him, too. ~S~ |
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27 Jan 01 - 05:37 PM (#383888) Subject: RE: curmudgeon wotz it mean ? From: grumpy al 16th century word, to paraphrase the dictionary grumpy old git, sod, bastard, take your pick. the Grumps. (or should that be curmudgeon) |
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27 Jan 01 - 06:27 PM (#383921) Subject: RE: curmudgeon wotz it mean ? From: Bill D hmmmpppfffff......... |
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27 Jan 01 - 06:34 PM (#383923) Subject: RE: curmudgeon wotz it mean ? From: bloozcat Thanx...blokes and blokesses... bloozcat.... |
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28 Jan 01 - 05:17 AM (#384112) Subject: RE: curmudgeon wotz it mean ? From: Jeremiah McCaw Another perspective: If someone is an (7 letters, starts with 'A'), but is amusing and you like him/her anyway, he/she be a curmudgeon. |
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28 Jan 01 - 12:02 PM (#384233) Subject: RE: curmudgeon wotz it mean ? From: Bert Yeah WYSI, He's a great guy really, I just love teasing him. |
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28 Jan 01 - 12:22 PM (#384241) Subject: RE: curmudgeon wotz it mean ? From: McGrath of Harlow I'd spell it with 8 letters Jeremiah, and I'd say they'd be a step further away from affability. I can imagine saying that someone was a curmudgeon, but at least they weren't an not a A; but not the other way round.
Noone's mentioned Victor Meldrew so far. In this cobntext, all I can say is I don't believe it... |
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29 Jan 01 - 11:18 AM (#384836) Subject: RE: curmudgeon wotz it mean ? From: Little Hawk We could maybe have a poll on whether Spaw more closely resembles a curmudgeon...or a git! What say? - LH |
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29 Jan 01 - 01:29 PM (#384943) Subject: Mmmmm... From: Bernard Mebbe he deserves his own word - Spawmudgit!! |
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29 Jan 01 - 01:45 PM (#384956) Subject: RE: curmudgeon wotz it mean ? From: GUEST Directed to a dog, McGrath, "bitch" can be an endearment. When I gentle my bitch's ears, and she puts on that soppy, adoring expression than only gentled dogs can, I have to say to her, "Silly old bitch!". Which really amuses my kids. |
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29 Jan 01 - 01:47 PM (#384959) Subject: RE: curmudgeon wotz it mean ? From: GUEST,Bald Eagle, whose PC's been pinched Sorry, last post was from me. Some bugger burgled my office over the weekend. I'm using a colleague's PC |
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29 Jan 01 - 02:01 PM (#384966) Subject: RE: curmudgeon wotz it mean ? From: wysiwyg I think I was warped for life on this subject by early exposure to the movie version of Anna and the King of Siam. Well I got a double dose-- book AND movie. It's a classic battle of male and female curmudgeons who actually respect and adore one another in certain ways. The King says of Mrs. Anna, "You are a very difficult woman!" Of course they both have to bend a little to learn what the other has to give them, but they remain difficult to the end. Anyway, a powerful woman who is opinionated is, when not called a bitch, sometimes called Difficult. In some parts it is said "He (or she) has strong opinions." (And often a gun in the pocket as well.) ~Sometimes Called Difficult |
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29 Jan 01 - 02:51 PM (#384994) Subject: RE: curmudgeon wotz it mean ? From: McGrath of Harlow Harridan or better still virago show more respect I feel. Xanthippe is another, but it's a bit rare
(She was Socrates' wife - who was said to be a bit fierce, but then you can imagine she'd have had to be. Imagine living with a man who could never answer a question except with another question designed to put you in the wrong?) |
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29 Jan 01 - 04:11 PM (#385074) Subject: RE: curmudgeon wotz it mean ? From: Troll 'Spaw is too young but he's got a real good start. Skeptic said meet me in person. I don't think I'm a curmudgeon.I'm an extremely opinionated and cantankerous old man and I don't give a damn who knows it. Why accept someone else's label? I've told you what I am. If you agree or not makes no difference. I'd cuss you all to hell if I cared what you thought. troll |
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29 Jan 01 - 04:38 PM (#385107) Subject: RE: curmudgeon wotz it mean ? From: wysiwyg There's my honey! (giggling) ~Dr. Virago |
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29 Jan 01 - 05:01 PM (#385135) Subject: RE: curmudgeon wotz it mean ? From: mousethief Ho ho ho Hee hee hee Little blue pill I love thee! I meant my andihistimine. What did you THINK I meant? |
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29 Jan 01 - 06:07 PM (#385184) Subject: Aaaaaargh! From: Bernard (To the tune of the Lonely Goatherd) I'm on the verge of a nervous breakdown Haha haha haha haha ha hee hee! |