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22 Mar 01 - 11:22 AM (#423206) Subject: Songs Tommy Wouldn't Get . From: BobP How about some thoughts on good, singable songs, for which average folks would need a decoder, or college professor to comprehend. Not like American Pie, but like: A Whiter Shade Of Pale. These are tunes Tommy Smothers would, at some point, turn to Dickie and ask, "What the hell are we singing about"? |
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22 Mar 01 - 11:27 AM (#423209) Subject: RE: BS: Songs Tommy Wouldn't Get From: SINSULL Louie Louie - has anybody, including the good folks who banned it, figured out what the hell is going on? |
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22 Mar 01 - 11:35 AM (#423219) Subject: RE: BS: Songs Tommy Wouldn't Get From: Gervase The Holmfirth Anthem has always struck me as a meaningless piece of nonsense. A gorgeous, singable tune, though. I can only assume that it's a song right at the fag-end of the folk process, where it's been refined and eroded down to the three verses we now have. I'd love to hear the "original". |
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22 Mar 01 - 11:46 AM (#423228) Subject: Lyr Add: HALLELUJAH (Leonard Cohen)^^ From: Jeri Sometimes a college professor isn't enough, unless he's got some serious drugs. I'd like to nominate anything ever written by Leonard Cohen? The first time I heard the song below, I thought it was a parody of his style. Great song to sing, though. How about...
Halleluja? |
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22 Mar 01 - 12:02 PM (#423237) Subject: RE: BS: Songs Tommy Wouldn't Get From: Bagpuss Jeff Buckley sang the above, didn't he? Its one of those recordings that almost brings tears to my eyes. Bagpuss |
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22 Mar 01 - 12:12 PM (#423247) Subject: RE: BS: Songs Tommy Wouldn't Get From: Bert Sorry if I'm an old grouch, but what the $%#&^ is the point of writing a song that no one can understand? The WHOLE BLOODY POINT of songwriting is getting a message across. Bert. |
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22 Mar 01 - 12:17 PM (#423250) Subject: RE: BS: Songs Tommy Wouldn't Get From: Pseudolus How about "Nights in White Satin".....maybe I'm slow but I don't get it. Actually, if you take the words and don't sing them but picture a drunk talking to his girlfriend, apologetically, at three in the morning.....it almost makes sense.....but not quite!
Frank |
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22 Mar 01 - 12:32 PM (#423263) Subject: RE: BS: Songs Tommy Wouldn't Get From: Jeri Bert - drugs. Or people trying to hard to demonstrate how creative they are. Or maybe they just like playing with words and imagery. I've attempted to read some early science fiction, and my reaction was "why don't you just bleeping come out and SAY it." Er...it's also easier to find words that rhyme if you don't have to stick to making sense.
The royal holy wizard weaves the word |
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22 Mar 01 - 12:35 PM (#423267) Subject: RE: BS: Songs Tommy Wouldn't Get From: Ringer I've always found The Streams of Lovely Nancy somewhat opaque. |
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22 Mar 01 - 12:59 PM (#423286) Subject: RE: BS: Songs Tommy Wouldn't Get From: Les from Hull Marc Bolan used to write some complete drivel when he was Tyrannosaurus Rex. Salamandar Palaganda indeed. He even had a song that went backwards (Debora/Arobed). If you're interested in incomprehensible lyrics, check out Marc's early(ish) stuff. And I always assumed that The Streams of Lovely Nancy was mucky. Or is that just me? Les |
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22 Mar 01 - 01:40 PM (#423334) Subject: RE: BS: Songs Tommy Wouldn't Get From: GUEST,Mayy_R Sins, "Louie Louie" is a sea chantey. Check out the lyrics here. |
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22 Mar 01 - 01:55 PM (#423349) Subject: RE: BS: Songs Tommy Wouldn't Get From: BobP Here's a short quiz! Here's a tune absolutely revered in the folk community. In fact, it's on my absolute favorite record. "Hello, hello, hello, Is there anybody home? I only called to say, I'm sorry." Q: So who's home, and what's he sorry about? "The drums are in the dawn, and all the voices gone. And it seems that there are no more songs." Q: Okay, He wakes to drums and cannot write! So this tune was written, what, before the drums? "Once I knew a girl, a flower in a flame, I loved her as the sea sinks sadly, Now the ashes of the dream can be found in the magazines, And it seems that there are. . ." Q: Okay, we're sad about his friend, why's he wanna tell us where the ashes are? "Once I knew a sage, who sang upon the stage, He told about the world, His lover. A ghost without a name, stands ragged in the rain. And it seems that there . . . " Q: I've also known a few world-loving sages, but am I supposed to feel sad about his wet, ragged, ghost? "The rebels they were here, They came beside the door, They told me that the moon was bleeding." Q: I'm soooo lost! Why have I no tools to break down any of that? "Then all to my suprise, they took away my eyes . . ." Q: Now he's blind? Because he responded incorrectly to the news about the moon? "A star is in the sky, It's time to say goodbye. A whale is on the beach, He's dying." Q: Finally! Its night and time to go help that whale. "A white flag in my hand, And a white bone in the sand." Q: Next whale try somethin else, the flag didn't help? He never wrote another like this, so, is that what he meant? |
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22 Mar 01 - 02:14 PM (#423386) Subject: RE: BS: Songs Tommy Wouldn't Get From: mousethief I think NIWS is about a guy whose girl has left him. He thinks back on all the things about their relationship in the first verse: nights in white satin, letters he'd written, beauty he'd missed (in her), and ends with "just what the truth is I can't say anymore" in other words he's all mixed up. Second verse is self-explanatory. But even though he's all mixed up, and nostalgic and sad, nonetheless he still loves her. Clear as mud. |
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23 Mar 01 - 09:13 AM (#424004) Subject: RE: BS: Songs Tommy Wouldn't Get From: Dave the Gnome A lot of Dylan stuff - Titles alone are pretty obscure. Rainy day women #12 and #35, Subteranian homesick blues and Love minus zero - no limits to name but three!!! And what the hell is All along the Watchtower all about? Mind you I genuinely rate Dylan as a modern day poet - far better than a lot of the drivel some people put out. Even if you don't understand the meaning at least the words and meter (metre?) are beautiful! General rule with traditional folk song. If it makes sense it's about someone dying, if it doesn't it's about sex! Dave the Obscure Why do the call you that then? Because of the lobsters..... |
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23 Mar 01 - 10:02 AM (#424064) Subject: RE: BS: Songs Tommy Wouldn't Get From: Kim C Bert, I think people sometimes write things that make sense to them and maybe not to anyone else. Oh wait... that might be Drugs, huh? But everybody has different reasons for writing what they write. Having been an English major once upon a time, I have to confess that I really like things that don't make any sense. I like the challenge of figuring out whatever symbolism may or may not be there. It's sort of like a puzzle. And I like All Along the Watchtower. And The Wind Cries Mary. Stuff like that. Of course, Fargo is also one of my favorite movies... |
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23 Mar 01 - 10:17 AM (#424079) Subject: Lyr Add: CLOTHESLINE SAGA From: catspaw49 Some songs are totally beyond me in their meaning and the whole "symbolic" thing wore me out in the 60's. JUST SAY IT FERCHRISSAKES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! There also is a category that joins this one I think. It is maybe titled, "Songs With No Point or Why Did Anyone Bother With This?" Want an example? CLOTHES LINE SAGA -- Bob Dylan
After a while we took in the clothes,
The next day everybody got up
I reached up, touched my shirt, ********************************************************* Really great huh? .........emphasis on HUH........... Spaw
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23 Mar 01 - 10:27 AM (#424088) Subject: RE: BS: Songs Tommy Wouldn't Get From: Pseudolus Macarthur Park....... |
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23 Mar 01 - 10:28 AM (#424089) Subject: Lyr Add: BIKE From: GUEST,Fibula Mattock Next in Spaw's category mentioned above, Pink Floyd. There's a room all ready in the NYCFTTS: BIKE
I've got a bike. You can ride it if you like.
You're the kind of girl that fits in with my world.
I've got a cloak. It's a bit of a joke.
You're the kind of girl that fits in with my world.
I know a mouse, and he hasn't got a house.
You're the kind of girl that fits in with my world.
I've got a clan of gingerbread men.
You're the kind of girl that fits in with my world.
I know a room full of musical tunes. |
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23 Mar 01 - 10:30 AM (#424092) Subject: RE: BS: Songs Tommy Wouldn't Get From: Pseudolus Sorry, one more, Elton John's "Someone Saved My Life Tonight" Frank |
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23 Mar 01 - 10:41 AM (#424099) Subject: RE: BS: Songs Tommy Wouldn't Get From: Dunc Two albums in my collection fail to have a sensable lyric between them. Tanita Tikaram's - Ancient Heart Sinead Lohan's - Who do you think I am? Both great albums - and I can sing along with most of the songs - but what they are about remains a total mystery to a simple minded fellow like myself. |
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23 Mar 01 - 10:47 AM (#424105) Subject: RE: BS: Songs Tommy Wouldn't Get From: Les from Hull Fibula - Bike is just a wonderful love song. It all makes perfect sense to me (as much as anything Syd Barrett ever did). And I like the room full of musical tunes, especially when the massed marching ducks come in. (You've heard it, you know when it happens.) Does that mean I can expect the little yellow van with the square wheels and the NYCFTTS logo to pay me a visit soon? Probably not, as there's a Hull in Canada and they'll start looking there first. Hehehe. Les |
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23 Mar 01 - 11:00 AM (#424121) Subject: RE: BS: Songs Tommy Wouldn't Get From: Dunc A Sinead Lohan chorus..... I fill my bag with clouds and rivers Emptied the castle of the crows I left the sand and the sea forever To be exactly here now Did I do the right thing? A Tanika Tikaram lyric..... Its eyes open time, sailor When they want you to pretend You were inside that playground You maybe old - But not so old That I can't see See your old friend and its fresh as dew But see what's new and it's all the same to you Now I'm not choosy and I'm just half grown I took the old man - I gave the old man I took the old man back home |
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23 Mar 01 - 11:11 AM (#424128) Subject: RE: BS: Songs Tommy Wouldn't Get From: GUEST,Fibula Mattock Les - don't get me wrong - I love "bike"! Especially "I don't know why I call him him Gerald". Brilliant! |
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23 Mar 01 - 11:19 AM (#424133) Subject: RE: BS: Songs Tommy Wouldn't Get From: GUEST,Fibula Mattock (erm, only one "him". I've made the lyrics even more bizarre.) |
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23 Mar 01 - 11:23 AM (#424137) Subject: RE: BS: Songs Tommy Wouldn't Get From: GUEST,Patrish I met a woman she's sprouting prose She got luggage eyes and a roman nose her body is slung from side to side Need a lift I said "much obliged" I'm a riding piggy and we go to her shack ah ahhhh we go inside the place is a mess She say "I'm the liquid poetess"
Guess who wrote this |
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23 Mar 01 - 11:26 AM (#424138) Subject: RE: BS: Songs Tommy Wouldn't Get From: Steve Latimer Patrish, I'd say it was Mr. Dylan.
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23 Mar 01 - 11:28 AM (#424141) Subject: RE: BS: Songs Tommy Wouldn't Get From: Whistle Stop I have to disagree with Bert, Jeri, Spaw, and probably a lot of other folks on this thread. My feeling is, if you just want to convey a straightforward, unambiguous, one-dimensional message, why bother to put it into a song? I prefer songs that have some ambiguity to them -- and I actually think they are more "real" than the straight narrative songs in a lot of cases. Face it, life is ambiguous, chaotic, multi-dimensional, and all the pieces just don't usually fit together that neatly. So these "straight narrative" things don't accurately reflect real life -- they oversimplify it. I prefer life in all its complexity and ambiguity. So I love Dylan -- and Spaw, "Clothes Line Saga" is a personal favorite of mine. It's funny, and the deadpan delivery makes it even more so -- it's been around for over thirty years, and some of the lines (like the narrator's nonplussed reaction to the news that the vice-presidnt has gone mad) still make me laugh out loud. Saying that songs should all be easily understandable is like saying that Picasso should have stuck to painting landscapes suitable for hanging on the walls of dentists' offices. Forget about James Joyce, Bertolt Brecht, Igor Stravinsky, and anyone else who colored outside of the lines; we don't "understand" them, therefore they're no good? I don't buy that at all. That said, however, it must be regognized that all of the more abstract art forms are open invitations to the bullshit artists among us. And we will continue to disagree about whether any particular artistic creation is a work of genius or a giant put-on. But that doesn't mean I want the abstract stuff to disappear; it tends to be my favorite style of expression. |
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23 Mar 01 - 11:32 AM (#424147) Subject: RE: BS: Songs Tommy Wouldn't Get From: Linda Kelly Joni mitchell -It's clouds illusions I recall I really don't know clouds at all -get a bloody life woman! |
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23 Mar 01 - 11:34 AM (#424152) Subject: RE: BS: Songs Tommy Wouldn't Get From: Bagpuss Agreeing with the above. I can't remember who it was, but I heard a songwriter interviewed recently. When asked what a particular song meant, or was about, he replied "If I could explain that, I wouldn't have needed to write the song". Bagpuss |
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23 Mar 01 - 11:39 AM (#424162) Subject: RE: BS: Songs Tommy Wouldn't Get From: GUEST,Patrish It was Marc Bolans' "One inch rock" The best line in a song was one by the devine comedy "Oh its hard to get by when your arse is the size of a small country" Its from their song "National Express" Patrish |
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23 Mar 01 - 11:42 AM (#424168) Subject: RE: BS: Songs Tommy Wouldn't Get From: GUEST,Fibula Mattock "Blue canary in the outlet by the light switch Who watches over you? Build a little birdhouse in your soul" I'd like to nominate that and most other songs by the brilliant They Might Be Giants. |
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23 Mar 01 - 11:45 AM (#424174) Subject: RE: BS: Songs Tommy Wouldn't Get From: mousethief What's so obscure about "Someone saved my life tonight"? He was going to get married to this loser woman, and has a conversation with a friend which makes him change his mind. Geez, I got that back in Junior High School. And Floyd's Bike is very straightforward. So straightforward you think there's more to it. There isn't. He's just talking about stuff he has. Then again, too many Dylan songs are just nonsense. You wonder if he didn't get to the point where he thought, "I could write total nonsense, and they'd still buy it," and then went ahead and proved himself right. Ickle Dorrit, time to switch to decaf? :o) The clouds song is a compare-and-contrast thing. Love is confusing, like clouds or life. She's really not so much contemplating clouds as using them as a metaphor for how enigmatic love can be. Bagpuss, love the quote. But there ARE songs that are just total fluff. Fortunately most of them are love songs so we don't notice. It was extremely popular in the 80s to write lyrics that were totally worthless. See Tears for Fears, for example. The words to some (not all) of their songs seem to be merely a peg to hang the melody on. There. There's a piece or two of my mind. Flame away. ALex |
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23 Mar 01 - 11:47 AM (#424177) Subject: RE: BS: Songs Tommy Wouldn't Get From: Bert "Twas Brillig and the Slivy Toves.... |
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23 Mar 01 - 12:02 PM (#424190) Subject: RE: BS: Songs Tommy Wouldn't Get From: catspaw49 WS, I like Clothesline Saga for the humor value, but I also agree with MT stating that Dylan wrote some BS words to one chord.....and by golly, WE BOUGHT IT!!! And of course you can understand that as a member of the "Total Cretin Club" I can't take Joyce or Brecht and have no idea about Picasso's weirdness. I keep embarassing my friends who drag me to art galleries by saying, "What the fuck is that anyway?" I don't know where in my life I missed out on these things because on the other hand I love Theolonius Monk. In art and literature though, I'm completely hopeless. Say, didn't some guy named Rube paint some nekkid, chunky girls? Spaw |
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23 Mar 01 - 12:02 PM (#424191) Subject: RE: BS: Songs Tommy Wouldn't Get From: Les from Hull Bert - if you want that explaining read the 'Annotated Alice' by whoever wrote it. It's smart. You can also get the French and German translations there as well. There's probably too much explaining in the world, though. Sometimes it's nice to see or hear a lot of nice words stuck together. Fibula - I'm glad you reminded me of 'Bike'. I might start do the song myself. It has to be a folk song by now, anyway. My Ickle friend - see you in the pub soon? Like tonight fr'instance? Les |
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23 Mar 01 - 12:41 PM (#424236) Subject: RE: BS: Songs Tommy Wouldn't Get From: Bagpuss I LOVE They Might Be Giants. "Now its over, I'm dead and I havent done anything that I want. Or I'm still alive and theres nothing I want to do" "Particle man, particle man, doing the things a particle can. When hes in the water does he get wet, or does the water get him instead, nobody knows, particle man" Bagpuss |
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23 Mar 01 - 01:00 PM (#424249) Subject: RE: BS: Songs Tommy Wouldn't Get From: Whistle Stop Spaw, I have the sneaking suspicion that you're not as obtuse as you pretend to be. After all, you know "Clothes Line Saga" well enough to quote us the entire song verbatim. And you listen to Monk! A hell of an admission from someone who is trying so hard to convince us of his lack of sophistication. (Don't get angry; I hope you realize I'm teasing). While Dylan is one of my biggest heroes, even I recognize that not all of his work is of equal quality. You could say the same about Picasso, Beethoven, Henry Ford and Muhammed Ali. But they all qualify as "great" in their respective fields. Going back to Dylan, I think it's noteworthy that some of his greatest work (said with the obligatory IMHO qualifier) is also his most abstract. I can't tell you precisely what "Visions of Johanna" means, or even "Mr. Tambourine Man," but I consider them both to be among the best songs ever written. |
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23 Mar 01 - 01:56 PM (#424300) Subject: RE: BS: Songs Tommy Wouldn't Get From: Steve Latimer Whistle Stop, Interesting that you mention Mr. Tambourine Man. I just watched a horrible movie the other night about an inner city school where a new teacher gets the class of misfits who of course she turns into wonderful human beings. Kind of Michelle Pfeiffer does To Sir With Love in the nineties. One of her methods was to introduce her to Dylan as a poet. She mentioned that Mr. Tambourine Man could have been Bob's dealer. Kind of interesting. Glad she didn't introduce them to Lou Reed's "Waiting for the Man".
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23 Mar 01 - 02:27 PM (#424336) Subject: RE: BS: Songs Tommy Wouldn't Get From: Whistle Stop Well, I have considered Ms. Pfeiffer to be one of the "greats" in her chosen field ever since she sprawled across a piano in a form-fitting red dress to sing "Makin' Whoopie". A true artist! I'll have to revise my opinion of Dylan's work, I guess; he was obviously just trying to flatter his dealer and score some free dope ("just to dance beneath the diamond sky with one hand waving FREE" -- I get it now!). |
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23 Mar 01 - 03:20 PM (#424401) Subject: RE: BS: Songs Tommy Wouldn't Get From: Kim C Oh Spaw, you aren't a TOTAL cretin... ;-) I have never heard Clothes Line Saga but I enjoyed reading those lyrics. It painted a very definite picture in my mind of a mundane family going about their mundane task of laundry. And I don't much care for Picasso myself. |
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23 Mar 01 - 03:29 PM (#424409) Subject: RE: BS: Songs Tommy Wouldn't Get From: Wesley S I've always loved { and sang } the song "Changes" by Phil Ochs but I'm not sure I've understood what I was singing about. |
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23 Mar 01 - 03:30 PM (#424411) Subject: RE: BS: Songs Tommy Wouldn't Get From: Pseudolus Mousethief, you were apparently a much better student than I.... Frank |
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23 Mar 01 - 03:32 PM (#424412) Subject: RE: BS: Songs Tommy Wouldn't Get From: Jim Krause BobP, I know that song. It's No More Songs by a guy who usually wrote transparently good, and sometimes sharply witty songs, Phil Ochs. I often wondered if he wrote this while he was very, very drunk. It is known that he had a serious alcohol problem. Jim |
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23 Mar 01 - 04:31 PM (#424457) Subject: RE: BS: Songs Tommy Wouldn't Get From: BobP Yes Jim, I'm actually a huge Phil Ochs fan, and pay special attention other folks doing things with his legacy. I check each sleeve when prospecting through cheap stacks and buy almost anybody's version of an Ochs tune. I have listened in wonderment to impassioned, serious-as-can-be (I call it "chain-dragging") interpretations of the aforementioned. I play it at home, by myself, love the tune; it's very singable. I think you're right, while a bit tipsy, he simply built a song out of nonsensical fragments to see if his dedicated would notice. PS: Kim & Reg Harris do alotta PO, and terrifically.
but |
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23 Mar 01 - 04:41 PM (#424464) Subject: RE: BS: Songs Tommy Wouldn't Get From: tiggerdooley Bagpuss, so glad you mentioned Jeff Buckley's version of 'Hallelujah'!!! Another cover Jeff did that was better than the original is 'Lilac Wine'. It's amazing. Performance tip: freak out the audience by conveying the song so well that you manage to convince them you really are a)crazy, and b)drunk.... |
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23 Mar 01 - 04:48 PM (#424471) Subject: RE: BS: Songs Tommy Wouldn't Get From: Bill D now I must go look up the words to Bob Beer's "Pythagoras and Cantagoras" |
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24 Mar 01 - 09:43 AM (#424827) Subject: RE: BS: Songs Tommy Wouldn't Get From: Linda Kelly Mousethief I'm already on the decaf mate -any other solutions! |
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24 Mar 01 - 09:36 PM (#425170) Subject: RE: BS: Songs Tommy Wouldn't Get From: John Nolan Jeri: I agree wholeheartedly with your opinion of Leonard Cohen, or Leonard Groan as I prefer to call him. For seven years, the people who lived in the flat above me in Glasgow played those nonsensical, whining L.C. albums night and day. I tried in my way to be free, and came to America, but I'm still haunted. Da da da da da da da da, da da da da da da da da ... |
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24 Mar 01 - 11:59 PM (#425203) Subject: RE: BS: Songs Tommy Wouldn't Get From: mousethief Leonard Cohen: Music to slit your wrists by. Ickle Dorritt: Hmm. I hate to suggest switching to alcohol-free beer. It seems such an oxymoron. Perhaps more aerobic exercise? Alex |