23 Apr 01 - 07:26 PM (#447690) Subject: 'thecruelbrother'lyrics From: GUEST,joellead@hotmail.com Does anyone have the lyrics to Child Ballad, 'The Cruel Brother', with the repeated phrase 'hey ho the lilly gay' or 'and the rose smells so sweet I/you know'? Please send. Thank you. Versions sung by Andrew Rowan Summers, Sandy Paton, and David Jones especially welcome. Thank you. Joelle |
23 Apr 01 - 07:33 PM (#447695) Subject: RE: 'thecruelbrother'lyrics From: Sorcha If you use the handy, dandy white search box on the top left of the Main Forum page, you'll find this The Cruel Brother e mail sent |
23 Apr 01 - 11:07 PM (#447812) Subject: RE: 'thecruelbrother'lyrics From: Sandy Paton The version I sing came from Sharp's English Folk Songs from the Southern Appalachians, Joelle. I'll post the text, but I've probably corrupted it slightly in the forty-five years that I've been singing it, so I want to check my source and make sure you get the proper words. Caroline knows the version sung by David Jones (with such a glorious melody!), but she wants to think about the words a bit before she gets me to type them here for her. So, hang in there, lass. You'll have them soon. Maybe even sooner, if some kind sould in Mudcatlanmd has a copy of Sharp and wants to take on the burden (hint! hint!). The one I sing is the one that starts: There were three fair maids went out to play at ball, I-O the lily gay, And three landlords come court them all, And the rose smells so sweet, I know. Any volunteers? Sandy |
23 Apr 01 - 11:14 PM (#447819) Subject: RE: 'thecruelbrother'lyrics From: Sandy Paton Should have proofread that before sending it, darn it! I intended to add that the version of the ballad in the Digital Tradition is the one on my recording of Archie Fisher (CD-61). That's the CD that includes Archie's remarkable "Witch of the West-mer-lands" which was later recorded by Stan Rogers. This is an astounding contemporary ballad written in the classic style. Ever hear it? Sandy |
24 Apr 01 - 10:34 AM (#448078) Subject: RE: 'thecruelbrother'lyrics From: GUEST Sandy, I agree, "Witch" is perhaps the best thing Archie has written. I still play "Man with a Rhyme" a lot. He first recorded "Witch" with Barbara Dickson on vocals, on her "Beggar's Mantle Fringed with Gold," album, so it was a great delight when you got him to record it himself. Your album was not easy to find 25 years ago in Scotland, (but it still sounds as fresh today), ah, the internet is a wonderful thing. A big thank you by the way for recording the trilogy of Fisher albums you made with Archie, Ray, and Cilla & Artie. Scottish artists, but only an American label was recording them at the hight of their creativity. I suppose in some ways you were the mid-wife for Artie's Kettle Records label, so we have that to thank you for as well. Thanks for all the great music (Scottish and American), you have got out over the years. love. john. |
24 Apr 01 - 12:38 PM (#448223) Subject: RE: 'thecruelbrother'lyrics From: GUEST,Dita (at work) Sorry, that post above is mine, keep forgeting thr (at work) bit. love, john. |
24 Apr 01 - 11:12 PM (#448706) Subject: Lyr Add: THE CRUEL BROTHER (Child #11) From: Sandy Paton Thanks for the kind words, John. Now I'd best get to work on the "Cruel Brother" text for Joelle. The one I sing is the version Cecil Sharp collected from Mrs. Hester House, in Hot Springs, NC, September 15, 1916. I find that I have changed it slightly, and I will include my amended text following the verse or line I have corrupted. My revision will be in italics.
THE CRUEL BROTHER (Child #11)
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24 Apr 01 - 11:18 PM (#448710) Subject: RE: 'thecruelbrother'lyrics From: Sandy Paton Will a good JoeClone please move "the bloody clothing" down to the line where it belongs? I omitted a <br> break mark. While you're at it, you might close the parenthesis at the end. Thanks, good angels. Cyberklutz Does the person who corrects the error get to make wise cracks? -Joe, the Unclonable- |
25 Apr 01 - 02:11 AM (#448763) Subject: RE: 'thecruelbrother'lyrics From: Sandy Paton Joe, you've earned the right to make wise cracks anytime! Thanks again, lad! It occurs to me that I ought to point out that the verse I quoted above as one I choose to sing rather than the one originally collected with the ballad, namely: Carry me to yonders stile And lay me down while I bleed awhile. was modified slightly from another Appalachian version, collected in 1939 by Herbert Halpert from Mrs. Polly Johnson in Wise, Virginia. I didn't make it up myself. Sandy |
30 Jan 05 - 10:35 AM (#1393225) Subject: Lyr Add: THE CRUEL BROTHER (from Tempest) From: GUEST,Wolfman Then there's the version done by the band Tempest (www.tempestmusic.com) There were three sisters lived in a hall High the rose and the lily, O There came a knight and he courted them all O the rose it smells so sweetly The first one she was dressed in red Will you come with me and share my bed And the second one was dressed in green Would you come with me and be my queen And the third one she was dressed in white Would you come and be my only light You may ask my father the king And you may ask my mother the queen And you may ask my sister Ann But don't forget my brother John So he has asked her father the king And he has asked her mother the queen And he has asked her sister Ann But he forget her brother John Her father he led her to the hall And the mother she danced before them all And her sister Ann led her to the court And her brother John helped her on her horse He had taken the blade both long and sharp And he pierced the bride right through the heart Lead me gently up the hill And there I'll sit and make my will What will you leave your father dear? The bonny steed that brought me here What will you leave your mother dear? The bloody robes that I do wear What will you leave your sister Ann? The golden ring from of my hand And what will you leave your brother John? The gallows tree to hang him on |
13 Jun 22 - 03:23 PM (#4144334) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Cruel Brother (Child #11) From: Joe Offer Joe-do cleanup https://mainlynorfolk.info/cyril.tawney/songs/thecruelbrother.html Casey sang "The Rose and the Lily" at the Singaround. |
13 Jun 22 - 04:27 PM (#4144344) Subject: RE: Lyr ADD: The Cruel Brother (Child #11) From: GUEST,Opening Moves Battlefield Band: https://youtu.be/QNSyOeMs6w4 The Cruel Brother (Child #11) There were three ladies played at ba' Hey wi' the rose and the linsey o But a knight came by, played o'er them a' Doon by the greenwood sidey o This knight bowed low tae a' the three Hey wi' the rose and the linsey o But tae the youngest he bent his knee Doon by the greenwood sidey o O lady fair, gie me your hand Hey wi' the rose and the linsey o And I'll mak ye lady o'er all my land Doon by the greenwood sidey o Sir knight ere you my favour win Hey wi' the rose and the linsey o Ye maun gain consent o'er all my kin Doon by the greenwood sidey o He gained consent fae her parents dear Hey wi' the rose and the linsey o And likewise fae her sisters fair Doon by the greenwood sidey o He's gained consent o'er all her kin Hey wi' the rose and the linsey o He forgot tae speak tae her brother John Doon by the greenwood sidey o When the wedding day was come Hey wi' the rose and the linsey o This knight would take his bonnie bride home Doon by the greenwood sidey o Her mother led her through the close Hey wi' the rose and the linsey o And her brother John stood her on her horse Doon by the greenwood sidey o He took a knife baith long and sharp ... And he stabbed the bonnie bride tae her heart ... Lead me tae yon high high hill Hey wi' the rose and the linsey o And I'll lie doon and I'll mak my will Doon by the greenwood sidey o And what will you gie tae your brother John Hey wi' the rose and the linsey o The gallows tree for tae hang him on Doon by the greenwood sidey o And what will you gie to your brother John's wife Hey wi' the rose and the linsey o The wilderness tae end her life Doon by the greenwood sidey o |
15 Jun 22 - 01:34 AM (#4144483) Subject: RE: Lyr ADD: The Cruel Brother (Child #11) From: Joe Offer Traditional Ballad Index entry: Cruel Brother, The [Child 11]DESCRIPTION: A man and woman agree to wed, but fail to ask her brother's permission. As the woman prepares for the wedding, her brother stabs her. She does not name her murderer, but reveals the facts in the terms of her will.AUTHOR: unknown EARLIEST DATE: 1776 (Herd) KEYWORDS: homicide brother marriage jealousy revenge lastwill FOUND IN: Britain(England (West),Scotland) Ireland US(Ap,NE,SE) REFERENCES (27 citations): Child 11, "The Cruel Brother" (14 texts, 1 tune) {Bronson's #1} Bronson 11, "The Cruel Brother" (10 versions) Bronson-SingingTraditionOfChildsPopularBallads 11, "The Cruel Brother" (4 versions: #1, #4, #6, #9) Lyle/McAlpine/McLucas-SongRepertoireOfAmeliaAndJaneHarris, pp. 26-33, "THere Were Three Ladies/There Waur Three Ladies" (2 texts, 1 tune) {Bronson's #1, but with differences} Riewerts-BalladRepertoireOfAnnaGordon-MrsBrownOfFalkland, pp. 235-237, "Cruel Brother Or The Bride's Testament" (1 text) Lyle-Andrew-CrawfurdsCollectionVolume1 54, "The Rose Smells Sae Sweetly" (1 text) Lyle-Andrew-CrawfurdsCollectionVolume2 114, "The Rosie Smell'd Sae Sweetlie"; Lyle-Andrew-CrawfurdsCollectionVolume2 135, "Fine Flowers in the Vale O" (2 texts) Dixon-AncientPoemsBalladsSongsOfThePeasantryOfEngland, Ballad #2, pp. 56-59,242, "The Three Knights" (1 text) Bell-Combined-EarlyBallads-CustomsBalladsSongsPeasantryEngland, pp. 270-271, "The Three Knights" (1 text) Gundry-CanowKernow-SongsDancesFromCornwall, p. 7, "The Three Knights" (1 text, 1 tune) {Bronson's #7} Sharp-EnglishFolkSongsFromSouthernAppalachians 6 "The Cruel Brother" (2 texts, 2 tunes) {Bronson's #3, #4} Gainer-FolkSongsFromTheWestVirginiaHills, pp. 13-15, "The Bride's Murder" (1 text, 1 tune) Barry/Eckstorm/Smyth-BritishBalladsFromMaine pp. 431-433, "The Cruel Brother" (1 text, 1 tune) {Bronson's #2} Flanders-AncientBalladsTraditionallySungInNewEngland1, pp. 171-174, "The Cruel Brother" (1 text, 1 tune) Brown/Belden/Hudson-FrankCBrownCollectionNCFolklore2 5, "The Cruel Brother" (2 texts) Brown/Schinhan-FrankCBrownCollectionNCFolklore4 5, "The Cruel Brothers" (1 text, 1 tune) Leach-TheBalladBook, pp. 78-81, "The Cruel Brother" (2 texts) Leach-HeritageBookOfBallads, pp. 20-22, "The Cruel Brother" (1 text) Quiller-Couch-OxfordBookOfBallads 64, "The Cruel Brother" (1 text) Friedman-Viking/PenguinBookOfFolkBallads, p. 175, "The Cruel Brother" (1 text) Grigson-PenguinBookOfBallads 32, "The Cruel Brother" (1 text) Niles-BalladBookOfJohnJacobNiles 8, "The Cruel Brother" (1 text, 1 tune) Gummere-OldEnglishBallads, pp. 185-187+344, "The Cruel Brother" (1 text) Pound-AmericanBalladsAndSongs, 8, pp. 21-23, "The Cruel Brother" (1 text) Whitelaw-BookOfScottishBallads, pp. 106-107, "The Cruel Brother" (1 text) SongsOfManyNations, "Flowers in the Valley" (1 text, 1 tune) (12th edition, p. 3, which appears to be a rewrite of Bronson's #10, which itself appears to have been bowdlerized by informant or collector) DT 11, CRUELBRO* Roud #26 RECORDINGS: Rose McCartin, "The Keeper of the Game" (on IREarlyBallads) ALTERNATE TITLES: Brother's Revenge Oh Lily O Lily O Three Ladies Played at Ball NOTES [292 words]: Flanders, in her notes in Ancient Ballads, observes that some scholars have seen the possibility of an incest motif in this song. Possible, of course, since the brother's extreme rage seems unreasonable. But the only real evidence is the last will scene, which has parallels in the incest ballad of "Lizzie Wan" [Child 51] -- but *not*, we note, in that other incest ballad, "Sheathe and Knife" [Child 16], nor is the last will scene in "Lord Randall" [Child 16], in which the singer condemns his murderer as in this ballad, in any way linked with incest. Thus there is only one other real instance of a combination of incest and murder and a last will. That's not enough evidence for me to be convinced that it's hidden somewhere in this ballad. - RBW Compare the first verse lines of Child 10.H to Opie/Opie-OxfordDictionaryOfNurseryRhymes 479, "There were three sisters in a hall" (earliest date in Opie/Opie-OxfordDictionaryOfNurseryRhymes is c.1630) Child 10.H: "There were three sisters lived in a hall, ... And there came a lord to court them all...." Opie/Opie-OxfordDictionaryOfNurseryRhymes 479 is a riddle beginning "There were three sisters in a hall, There came a knight amongst them all ...." - BS This item is also found as Baring-Gould-AnnotatedMotherGoose #702, p. 275, but this appears to be simply a greeting rhyme unrelated to the various rather murderous ballads (notably Child 10 and 11) using these lines. Nonetheless the lyric may have been borrowed, since the Opies derive it from Sloane MS. 1489, which must date from the seventeenth century if not earlier (the Opies say 1630. Note that this MS. should not be confused with the famous Sloane MS. 2593, which contains many of the earliest English proto-ballad lyrics). - RBW Last updated in version 6.3 File: C011 Go to the Ballad Search form Go to the Ballad Index Instructions The Ballad Index Copyright 2022 by Robert B. Waltz and David G. Engle. |