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04 May 01 - 05:35 AM (#455552) Subject: Who wrote Outlaw Rapparee From: Big Tim I have seen this song described as "traditional" and also credited to Seamus McGrath,Tom Brett,Michael O'Brian and James English. Who were/are these guys and who really wrote this fine rebel song (and when)? |
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06 May 01 - 04:08 PM (#456514) Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote Outlaw Rapparee From: MMario refresh |
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06 May 01 - 10:32 PM (#456710) Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote Outlaw Rapparee From: chessell Seamus McGrath is the Clancy Brothers' nephew. He did write that tune along with those other fellas. Hope this helps. Cheers. |
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07 May 01 - 05:24 AM (#456818) Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote Outlaw Rapparee From: Big Tim Thanks folks, I had kinda given up on this one. |
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29 Jan 03 - 03:22 PM (#877842) Subject: Lyr Req: The Outlawed Raparee From: jimlad Looking for lyrics to above,I thik it contains the lines.... I'm Englands foe,I'm Irelands friend ,I'm the outlawed raparee |
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29 Jan 03 - 03:33 PM (#877851) Subject: Lyr Add: THE RAPPAREE From: Joe Offer Hi, Jimlad. I hope you don't mind that I moved you over to this thread, so we can keep things together. I found these lyrics at Makem.com. the site give no indication about who wrote the song, or about the history of it. Sounds like we need to do some research. -Joe Offer- THE RAPPAREE My spurs are rusted, my coat is rent, my plume is damp with rain And the thistle down and the barley beard are thick on my horses mane But my rifle's as bright as my sweetheart's eye, my arm is strong and free What care have I for your king or laws, I'm an outlawed rapparee Chorus: Lift your glasses friends with mine and give your hand to me I'm England's foe, I'm Ireland's friend, I'm an outlawed rapparee The mountain cavern is my home, up high in the crystal air And my bed of limestone iron ribbed and the brown heath smelling fair Let George or William only send his troops to burn or loot We'll meet them up on equal ground and we'll fight them foot to foot Hunted from out our father's home, pursued by steel and shot A bloody warfare we must wage or the gibbet be our lot Hurrah! This war is welcome work, the hunted outlaw knows He steps unto his country's love o'er the corpses of his foes |
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29 Jan 03 - 03:37 PM (#877852) Subject: Lyr Add: THE OUTLAW RAPPAREE From: Joe Offer this page gives attribution and lyrics, but is the attribution correct? -Joe Offer- THE OUTLAW RAPPAREE by Seamus McGrath / Tom Brett / Michael O'Brien / James English My spurs are rusted, my coat is rent, my plume is damp with rain And the thistledown and the barleybeard are thick on my horse's mane But my rifle's as bright as my sweetheart's eyes, my arm is strong and free What care have I for your king or laws? I'm an outlawed rapparee. Lift your glasses, friends, with mine and give your hand to me I'm England's foe, I'm Ireland's friend, I'm an outlawed rapparee. The mountain cavern is my home, high up in the crystal air And my bed of limestone ironribbed and the brown heath smelling fair Let George or William only send his troops to burn or loot. We'll meet them up on equal ground and we'll fight them foot to foot. Lift your glasses, friends, with mine and give your hand to me I'm England's foe, I'm Ireland's friend, I'm an outlawed rapparee. Hunted from out our father's home, pursued with steel and shot And swift the warfare we must wage, or the gibbet'll be our lot Hurrah! this war is welcome work, the hunted outlaw knows He steps unto his country's love o'er the corpses of his foes. Lift your glasses, friends, with mine and give your hand to me I'm England's foe, I'm Ireland's friend, I'm an outlawed rapparee. |
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29 Jan 03 - 03:47 PM (#877856) Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote Outlaw Rapparee From: jimlad Hi Joe One of the folks at our Folk Club seems to remember reading that the Raparees were defeated Jacobites who went to Ireland after Culloden and tried to keep the struggle going. I would have included the former but I thought it might have been a Red Herring. Thanks for the lyrics. Jim |
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29 Jan 03 - 04:13 PM (#877874) Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote Outlaw Rapparee From: Rapparee That's the attribution given in my copy of the Clancy Bros. & Tommy Makem songbook. |
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29 Jan 03 - 04:13 PM (#877875) Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote Outlaw Rapparee From: MMario Did you ever send me the dots on that? |
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30 Jan 03 - 01:20 PM (#878460) Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote Outlaw Rapparee From: Big Tim The song is listed as "traditional" in the book "The Gold Sun of Irish Freedom" by Danny Doyle and Terence Folan (1998). "Rapparee" is derived from the Irish "rapaire" meaning a short rapier or pike, their favoured weapon. Originally, they were the displaced Catholic natives who became outlaws and preyed on their British conquerors. The term came into vogue around 1690, prior to that these rebels were called "kerne" (Ir.- ceitearn -"trooper") and "tories" (Ir. - toraidhe - "raider"). In England "tory" was applied with derision to the Jacobites and gradually evolved in an alternative name for what became the Conservative Party. The best known rapparee was Redmond O'Hanlon (1640-81) but the greatest seems to have been Dudley Costello (c1620-67) in Mayo and Ned of the Hill (Edmund Ryan,1670-1724) in Tipperary. Anything definitive on authorship of the song? |
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18 Feb 03 - 03:15 PM (#892934) Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote Outlaw Rapparee From: MMario It's copyright 1966 and 1969 by Tiparm Music with the McGrath,Brett,O'Brian and English attribution in the songbook Rapaire mentions above. |
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18 Feb 03 - 05:15 PM (#893055) Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote Outlaw Rapparee From: The Pooka Tiparm Music Inc. was an early Clancys & Makem entity, right? - name derived from their respective counties, Tipperary & Armagh? / I have them doing this fine song on an old vinyl LP. But I too always thought it was "traditional". Hm. |
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18 Feb 03 - 09:26 PM (#893231) Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote Outlaw Rapparee From: MMario midi posted |
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18 Feb 03 - 09:54 PM (#893247) Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote Outlaw Rapparee From: Bob Bolton G'day Pooka, The big give-away for modern writing is the line: But my rifle's as bright as my sweetheart's eyes All fighting (long) firearms of the period were smoothbored muskets, or similar. Rifles were sometimes used in hunting but were far too slow for miltary use until the mid 1850s when expanding base slugs (eg 'the Minie ball of the American Civil War) allowed faster reloading. As well, all service arms had a dull, usually brown, fire-'blued' finish ... never "bright"! The author is clearly an Irish patriot ... not an historian. (Yes - and rifles were not used in battle in the American War of Independence for the same reasons - they were used in sniping/skirmishing ... and a brilliant piece of propaganda when they revolutionary forces allowed a top rifleman to be captured by British gtroops about to sail home. His demonstrations of accurate, long-range rifle fire (not under battle conditions!) shot large holes in King George's recruiting campaigns. Regards, Bob Bolton |
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19 Feb 03 - 12:33 PM (#893527) Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote Outlaw Rapparee From: GUEST,Guest, Big Tim Thanks for that Bob. Modern eh? I thought so, but were any of the Clancy guys above capable of writing a song of this calibre? And if so, did they write any more? Bob: looks like one of your Gerringong pics will be used, soon! |
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19 Feb 03 - 01:37 PM (#893585) Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote Outlaw Rapparee From: ard mhacha Here we go afain Big Tim`s favourite sport, belittling anything Irish. Do yourself a favour and read Liam Clancy`s biography The Mountain of the women, quite an insight into a" thick paddys" intellect. Also Makem did a fair job of "Four green fields". Ard Mhacha. |
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19 Feb 03 - 06:05 PM (#893819) Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote Outlaw Rapparee From: Rapparee "all service arms had a dull, usually brown, fire-'blued' finish ... never "bright"!" Well, I used to think so too, but was proved wrong. I wondered why, when producing large quantities of muskets, gunmakers were required to brown or otherwise protect the steel when skipping this step would speed production and cut costs. Coloring -- browning, bluing -- is a controlled rusting done to protect the surface of the steel. Historically it has been done by several methods, such as soaking a gun barrel in a solution of sal ammoniac (ammonium chloride), boiling it in logwood, or treating it with a nitric acid solution. Bluing, as is found on modern firearms, dates from (roughly) the 19th century. So I visited various museums, including the Smithsonian's Museum of American History, the museum at Aberdeen Proving Grounds (Maryland), Colonial Williamsburg and others. I found that quite a few military guns -- rifles, muskets and pistols -- were left "in the white." One example is the Charleville musket. Matchlocks with their metal "in the white" can be seen in the Landeszeughaus Graz in Austria. There should also be examples in the Tower armouries and Leeds in the UK. Another reason -- other than cost and speed of manufacture -- can be found in the massed formations used in warfare. A body of soldiers with the sun glinting off muskets, bayonets and swords is more intimidating. Remember, mass bodies of troops were the rule as recently as WWI. Besides, I always assumed that the raparree kept his rifle "bright" because he kept it clean and ready for use. That is, the bore was bright. (I make black powder firearms as a hobby, and hope to take it up again when I get the space to do it. It'd be really hard to do in the condo I'm currently living in.) |
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19 Feb 03 - 10:10 PM (#893991) Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote Outlaw Rapparee From: Bob Bolton G'day Rapaire, There are some good points in what you say ... but some other considerations: ... quite a few military guns "in the white ... There are quite a few museum collections where dull finished military items are now gleaming bright (including, in the Tower, sets of originally black armour ... and, BTW, vice versa!) Curators (particularly of the Victorian era) were rather prone to degrees of "restoration" that would not be accepted today. The other point is the rarity of rifles ... the term itself is rare in the period of the song, although there is some record of gamekeepers, fighting on Cromwell's side in the English Civil War, doing a bit of early 'sniping' with "screwed guns". The long time to load a tightly fitting ball into a rifled barrel was impractical in open battle - although a skirmishing rebel might make selective use of a rifle ... if he was backed up by a few muskets, pistols and pikes! Regards, Bob Bolton |
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20 Feb 03 - 05:24 AM (#894154) Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote Outlaw Rapparee From: MartinRyan Hmmmmm..... I wonder about this one. I'll have a look. Regards |
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20 Feb 03 - 05:50 AM (#894162) Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote Outlaw Rapparee From: MartinRyan ... the song, I meant, not the guns... Anyway, a quick search shows the title only in modern songbooks, despite the rather 19C. feel to the words. I see no reason to doubt the McGrath & Co. attribution. Regards |
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20 Feb 03 - 08:54 AM (#894199) Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote Outlaw Rapparee From: Rapparee Oh, I quite agree about the rarity of rifles in the prior to about the 19th C. And what curators of the past did is, to my mind, awful. But there as also many surviving examples of military arms "in the white," in public and private collections which have not been touched. I'm not disagreeing, simply stating that both were used. As for accuracy in muskets: when you load a .65 caliber ball in the .69 caliber musket by dropping the ball into the barrel and seating it by whapping the butt of the piece on the ground, loading is indeed speeded up but accuracy suffers a lot. Most muskets (i.e., smoothbore military flintlocks) simply weren't accurate beyond 100 yards -- being shot by one beyond that range counted as an accident. Granted, if you have enough balls flying around folks are gonna get hurt or killed where ever they are, and that was the rationale for the massed unit fire. A brace of pistols, a sword, a pistol and a longarm, a longarm and a bayonet -- when you've got one shot you need backup weapons in combat. It occurs to me that riding around on a horse while carrying either a rifle OR musket would be cumbersome at best. A musketoon, a blunderbuss, a brace of pistols, fine. But I'm having a hard time figuring out how you'd carry and use a flintlock weapon at least 48 inches long from horseback...especially in a fight. (Yes, I'm aware that it's possible, only that it's akward with a loooooooong gun.) |
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20 Feb 03 - 10:19 AM (#894250) Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote Outlaw Rapparee From: Dave Bryant One of the first times that rifles were used seriously in the British Army was during the Spanish Penisular war when the rifle brigade was formed. As already said, they were used for sniping rather than open battle and for that reason the riflemen wore a green uniform to afford them some degree of camouflage. Many of the army top brass thought that the use of snipers was cheating and not "playing the game", but Wellington was interested in results, not game playing. The "Sharpes" novels and TV plays cover this as does "Death to the French" by C. S. Forester. |
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20 Feb 03 - 10:09 PM (#894821) Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote Outlaw Rapparee From: Bob Bolton G'day Rapaire, " ... having a hard time figuring out how you'd carry and use a flintlock weapon at least 48 inches long from horseback... That's why cavalry carried carbines - short weapons, not usually rifled before mid 19th c. - and they were carried in a holster ... a rifle 'bucket' mounted forward of the saddle (in British Army parlance ... then ... a holster was on a horse whilst your sidearm was carried in a "pistol case" on your belt). Cavalry might also carry a brace of large pistols ... and a sabre ... and they could always hope to ride out of trouble (and range ... !) on their mounts. If "Rapparee / Rapaire is a term coming from the early 18th c. ... and they were operating as "irregular" troops - essentially guerrillas - taking advantage of their knowledge of their territory - they would not be looking to mount "set piece" battles and would not have the numbers to daunt a professional army with show of " ... a body of soldiers with the sun glinting off muskets, bayonets and swords ...". Set piece battles may make powerful cinema ... but the hard work in defending home territory is done by skirmishers and guerrillas who make the occupying force's tenure unendurable ... and keep them from gathering into a direct attack on strategic targets. Regards, Bob Bolton |
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21 Feb 03 - 02:59 AM (#894972) Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote Outlaw Rapparee From: weerover Big Tim..."belittling anything Irish" - my experience is most certainly the opposite, having shared a good deal of information with him both inside and outside this forum. wr |
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21 Feb 03 - 11:41 AM (#895190) Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote Outlaw Rapparee From: GUEST,Robby (whose not at his day job) I'm not sure how much I can contribute to this discussion, but, FWIW, the use of the rifle, as a military weapon, was quite well-know, and certainly by the end of the American Revolution. Admittedly the musket was still the general weapon of the infantry, but Daniel Morgan, who eventually rose to the rank of Brigadier in the Continental Army initially commanded a unit composed entirely of riflemen. Other Colonial/Continental forces had rifle units attached to them. They did not stand in massed ranks for the exchange of volleys. However, one of their principle tasks was to remove British officers from the field, which they did with varying degrees of success. One of their most notable achievements being the removal of one of Burgoyne's generals during the Battle of Saratoga. Mel Gibson's movie "The Patriot" has Lord Cornwallis making an explicit reference to the removal of British officers by the Colonial/Continental forces during combat. Given this, it would seem possible that the song could still be traditional, even though refering to a "rifle". Just a thought. Robby |
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23 Feb 03 - 04:35 PM (#896841) Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote Outlaw Rapparee From: The Pooka 'Belittling the Irish' is a sin which I've been known to commit, myself, fergive me Fadduh. (Going on the 'Cat is not necessarily the most faithful avoidance of the Near Occasion...) Anyway, just to Creep the Thread further - I claim there breathes no bigger, nor more shameless, Clancyite than me. But, the song*writer* among the original Lads (*my* Fab 4 from the '60's, maaan)-- and a pretty prolific one at that -- is indeed Tommy Makem. IMHO, he's penned some really good ones, including yes, Four Green Fields; some stinkers; and a lot, the majority, in between. Outlawed Raparee, I dunno. But, they *performed* it damn well by God. / Tom & Paddy (RIP) & Liam were not particularly writers. More Arrangers & Adapters I guess. Bobby (RIP) I'm not so familiar with. Makem's 3 sons, now The Makem Brothers, do write much of their own material I think. (Liam's son Donal is also a musician.) Now, Bobby's daughter Aiofe, formerly of Cherish the Ladies -- I've seen her once in concert. Good voice & stage presence & band. I don't know whether she writes songs, & I don't care. / *Alright* already, so I don't care whether she SINGS songs. I'll go just to look at her. Oy! |
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23 Feb 03 - 11:17 PM (#897073) Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote Outlaw Rapparee From: Blackcatter " ... having a hard time figuring out how you'd carry and use a flintlock weapon at least 48 inches long from horseback... This presupposes that the horse was used for more than just transportatiion. If the Rapparee is running / fighting / snipeing / whatever - he's probably not regularly firing from his horse. Fighting on horseback against supereor forces is generally foolheardy. You enemies have a good shot of hitting your horse and really messing up your mobility. pax yall |
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27 Jan 07 - 04:42 PM (#1949920) Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote Outlaw Rapparee From: Q (Frank Staplin) Rapparee- 1. a half pike. 1690, "Both horse and foot are very ill-armed, the latter having for the most part only scythes, or half pikes called Rapories." Hist., An Irish pikeman or irregular soldier, of the kind prominent during the War of 1688-92; hence an Irish bandit, robber or freebooter. 1690, Mackenzie, writing in "Siege London-Derry- They were afterwards called Raparees, a sort of Irish Vultures that follow their Armies to prey on the spoil. 1745, Berkeley, "We have been alarmed with a report that a great body of Raparees is up in the county of Kilkenny. Abbreviated from the OED. |
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30 Jul 07 - 10:01 PM (#2115178) Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote Outlaw Rapparee From: GUEST,sully anyone have the chord changes to this song? |
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07 Feb 09 - 07:00 PM (#2560413) Subject: RE: Origin: Outlaw Rapparee From: GUEST,JTT Incidentally, Michael Dwyer, who harried the British and the loyalists from 1798 until 1803 from his base in West Wicklow, was referred to as a rapparee. It always seems a little pointless for 21st-century people to get all expert about what things should have looked like at the time of earlier ballads. Believe me, boys, 19th-century people knew what military guns looked like. Irish farmers are familiar with the appearance of the grass growing on the weir, and don't mix it up with waterweed. If people in an 18th-century ballad refer to a 'rock' and 'reel', they don't mean stones, they mean parts of spinning wheels. |
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06 Nov 10 - 07:32 PM (#3025563) Subject: RE: Origin: Outlaw Rapparee From: GUEST,Rich I'd like to add a note to a prior post regarding one of Morgan's rifleman during the American Revolution. Timothy Murphy, whose parents were from Donegal, killed General Simon Fraser at the Second Battle of Saratoga. This played a critical part of winning the battle. Murphy's unit was made up of about 500 men, all riflemen. |
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06 Nov 10 - 11:40 PM (#3025672) Subject: RE: Origin: Outlaw Rapparee From: meself "It always seems a little pointless for 21st-century people to get all expert about what things should have looked like at the time of earlier ballads" Was it not the point here that the ballad in question is not at all "earlier", and that the ("later") writers seem to have erred in a couple of details? Of course, in true Mudcat tradition, the pertinent information provided in early posts is ignored in later posts .... |
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06 Nov 10 - 11:57 PM (#3025681) Subject: RE: Origin: Outlaw Rapparee From: Seamus Kennedy Wow. Rich, Is that the same Simon Fraser who started the pipe band in British Columbia? |
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10 Jan 13 - 01:58 PM (#3464067) Subject: Lyr Add: THE MOUNTAINS (John Francis O'Donnell) From: Jim Dixon I found this poem in Duffy's Hibernian Magazine Vol. 3, No. 14 (Dublin: James Duffy, August, 1861), page 72. It is also in Poems by John Francis O'Donnell (London: Ward & Downey, 1891), page 152 It is part of a longer poem called "A Canadian Festival" attributed to "Caviare" in the magazine. Since the same poem lacks an attribution in the O'Donnell book, I assume O'Donnell is the author. THE MOUNTAINS. My spurs are rusted, my coat is rent, My plume is dank with rain; And the thistle down and the barley beard Are thick on my horse's mane; But my rifle's as bright as my sweetheart's eye, And my arm is strong and free— What care have I for your king or laws? I'm an outlawed rapparee! Click, click your glasses, friends, with mine, And give your grasp to me; I'm England's foe, I'm Ireland's friend— Click, click, I'm a rapparee! The mountain cavern is my home, High up in the crystal air; My bed is the limestone, iron-ribbed, And the brown heath smelling fair. Let George or William only send His troops to burn and shoot— We'll meet them upon equal ground, And fight them foot to foot. Click, click your glasses, friends, with mine, The midnight's made for glee; Stout hearts beat fast for Ireland yet— Yes—I am a rapparee! Hunted from out our father's homes, Pursued with steel and shot, A bloody warfare we must wage, Or the gibbet be our lot Hurrah! the war is welcome work, The hated outlaw knows; He steps unto his country's love O'er the corpses of his foes. Click, click your glasses, friends with mine, In coming days I see Stern labours for our country's weal— Yes—I'm a rapparee. |
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13 Jun 15 - 06:36 AM (#3716340) Subject: RE: Origin: Outlaw Rapparee From: GUEST,regina mclaughlin Brilliant find. So that which appeared recently actually derives from 19th centurary literature. |
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13 Jun 15 - 09:59 AM (#3716366) Subject: RE: Origin: Outlaw Rapparee From: meself Of course, "everything is relative". The 'recent appearance' of 1966 or so, would not seem particularly recent to someone born in, say, 1990. And the poem published in 1861 is referring to events of 200 years or so earlier - so the poem is closer to us in time .... But, yes, Mr Jim Dixon has earned himself some bragging rights! |
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13 Jun 15 - 03:22 PM (#3716417) Subject: RE: Origin: Outlaw Rapparee From: MartinRyan But, yes, Mr Jim Dixon has earned himself some bragging rights! Not for the first time! Regards |
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13 Jun 15 - 06:17 PM (#3716438) Subject: RE: Origin: Outlaw Rapparee From: GUEST,Regina McLaughlin Yes, the "Rapparee" poem harkens back 200 years. Yet I imagine, to Irish readers in 1861, that would have been quite provocative. By setting his romantic poem in the days of past glory (the Williamite era) the poet expresses contemporary Irish national yearnings and suggests an obligation to throw off the yoke of foreign domination. Don't forget: in 1861, the nationalistic speeches of Dan O'Connell, not to mention the obscene horrors of the Great Famine, were fresh in contemporary memory. Thomas Moore's recently published poems, including the "The Minstrel Boy", also glorified the Irish past. By "Minstrel" had been set to music reaching a mass audience (and was popular in the U.S. during the Civil War). Slowly, national awareness was bubbling to the surface in Irish culture. So, can a romantic ballad that evokes the distant past can inspire nationalism?... Well, "Flower of Scotland" comes to mind. Just as the lone Rapparee "steps up to his country's love o'er the corpses of his foes," Robert the Bruce's ragtag band sends King Edward "homeward to think again."... Wow, how I love this stuff. |
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13 Jun 15 - 06:23 PM (#3716440) Subject: RE: Origin: Outlaw Rapparee From: meself Not sure what you were reading into my post(s) .... they were to be understood in the context of people arguing about historical accuracy; nothing to do with how inspiring or not the song is .... |
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13 Jun 15 - 06:37 PM (#3716444) Subject: RE: Origin: Outlaw Rapparee From: MartinRyan It's the linguistic nuances that fascinate me, I must say. As indicated by my earlier post, I initially thought the language was distinctly 19th C. - but hadn't come across it in my own reading of songbooks & verse collections of the time. (It might be a little easier to be comprehensive now, with over a decade of online cacheing!). That language, and its survival intact in settings like this, is a long way from the folk processed broadsheet and traditional material we more commonly meet in this context. Regards |