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04 May 01 - 07:14 PM (#456099) Subject: What if Mudcat........... From: Dave Wynn .....just disappeared...because the person / people who run it got totally pissed off with all the agony and negative crap. Wouldn't it make us all feel really bad one way or another.? It would sure as hell bugger up my lunchtimes :-)...)-: Hope they don't. Spot |
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04 May 01 - 07:18 PM (#456104) Subject: RE: BS: What if Mudcat........... From: Matt_R Sometimes I think it would serve them all right. |
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04 May 01 - 07:21 PM (#456109) Subject: RE: BS: What if Mudcat........... From: John Routledge Mudcat - It makes a fascinating study of the Pageantry of Life and therefore worthy of retention.GB |
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04 May 01 - 07:31 PM (#456120) Subject: RE: BS: What if Mudcat........... From: Clinton Hammond There's nothing more ephemeral than the internet... sites come and sites go... No one is more or less special than any other... |
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04 May 01 - 07:51 PM (#456129) Subject: RE: BS: What if Mudcat........... From: Jeri Matt, the problem is that you are "them," as am I, as are all the folks who don't participate in all the negative stuff. I suspect folks would still communicate on way or another. I'd be upset if Mudcat went away. I'd probably be resentful for a while. I'd eventually get over it, and feel fortunate that for one brief, shining moment, there was a place called Mudcat. I suspect Max doen't let most of the crap get to him, though. I hope he doesn't, anyway. No matter how heated a discussion gets around here, or how obvious the beast within each of us makes itself, we value this place. We just forget to say "thanks," or maybe think Max can read our minds. Me, I wonder what this place would be like if I went away and came back in a year or two. When I joined a couple of years ago, the threads were mostly music with a bit of BS. A year ago, there was still quite a bit of music, and a bunch of BS, of which a small part was nasty. Most of the nastiness came from certain individuals who intended to be nasty. Now it seems like the threads are mostly BS, and a lot of them turn nasty no matter how they start out. Maybe familiarity breeds contempt, and we know each other a bit too well. We seem to be very polite and generous strangers, but suspicious and irritable friends. I guess while we're in the process of forgetting to say "thanks" to Max, we also forget to acknowledge (or even remember) the wonderful, unique qualities each individual around here possesses. I've heard the philosophy of living each day as if it were your last day on earth. Maybe if we treated each person as if it were theirs... |
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04 May 01 - 09:49 PM (#456200) Subject: RE: BS: What if Mudcat........... From: Little Hawk The same sort of thing tends to happen with most ongoing human activities, I've noticed...clubs, political parties, associations, communes, whatever. The good side of it is that there's a lot to learn and experience along the way. "Nothing lasts forever but the Earth and Sky", as the warriors used to say when they rode into battle. Another thought: maybe a lot of people have talked themselves out on the musical end, and are exploring the other 185 million or so things that are out there to talk about. I could launch any number of threads on Bob Dylan, for example, but I don't, cos what would be the point, really? It's pretty well all been said by now. One thing that is great about this site...if you have a musical question, you will get the answer from someone, and usually quite quickly. That's very handy. - LH |
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04 May 01 - 11:37 PM (#456256) Subject: RE: BS: What if Mudcat........... From: gnu After much trepidation and liberal amounts of Gibson's Finest, I submit..... What if Mudcat.... was just an experiment ? Just a site set up to study human nature ? What if "Max" (no offense, Max) was an anthropologist studying the incoherent behaviour of all the little peons who post ? Notwithstanding the posts of the "Gods". Really now, what the hell do you think your opinion matters in the overall scheme of things on this planet ? Not worth a tinker's damn. However, I enjoy participating in the only thing that brings me joy - interacting with others who share that same joy. The common THREAD here is the music. I have never been to a chat room or anything like before the Mudcat. If Mudcat "dies", so does my venture into the ethernet. Should that be internet ? More ether over here, please... it's still early... only a half bottle past Friday midnight. |
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05 May 01 - 12:50 AM (#456291) Subject: RE: BS: What if Mudcat........... From: Skeptic Gnu, A bit more of Gibson's finest and you'll realize that maybe Max is an alien and this is all of some monstrous alien conspiracy. Maybe their abductions? operation went over-budget and this is their fall-back research position. Granted that any alien that though Mudcatters were typical or representative would have to give up his?her/its?their? claim to being an advanced species........ But you're right about Mudcat being something special. Having banged around on various forums, Usenet groups and chat groups on the internet (and before that on BBS), Mudcat has a certain "feel" that does make it special. If it went away, I'd feel the loss. Regards John |
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05 May 01 - 06:49 AM (#456362) Subject: RE: BS: What if Mudcat........... From: bbc What if...every April 1st, Max completely shut down for a week or so, to remind us what we like about Mudcat. Perhaps it would help some keep their emotional balance & perspective. Perhaps not. Whether it's intended that way or not, Mudcat certainly *is* an interesting social experiment. Good & bad aspects of human nature are quite apparent--wonderful selfless, supportive acts by some & pure crap from others. We have some wonderful people here & I appreciate each of you. Thanks, Max! bbc |
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05 May 01 - 07:16 AM (#456365) Subject: RE: BS: What if Mudcat........... From: Frug Hey you guys whats happening here? I'm very new to Mudcat but have found the whole site entertaining and informative even given that there appear to be a few little personal squabbles going on which seem to have become a liitle too public. I don't pretend to understand everything that's going on but all of a sudden people are talking in terms of obituary. It occurs to me that most of the contributers to the 'Cat are all interested in the same thing ie. music and we all have our preferences as to style, genre etc. I guess that most of us have played in bands where we've had musical differences or fallings out. I'm sure we've all been memebers of things which at one time or another pissed us off. I've certainly experienced all that including stamping my not so little foot and saying 'never dampen my bathmat again'. But at the end of the day if the overall experience is enjoyable we should be able to rise above the short-term problems and look at the bigger picture. I believe the 'Cat is a community bonded by the love of playing music. Like most communities every so often there is a falling out. My God how bloody normal is that? People come and go just like in real life. Hopefully people won't leave for good. Chilling out usually brings a new perspective and maybe that's what's going to happen here. It would be a great shame if people felt the need to take sides and escalate matters above their importance. I was delighted to find the 'Cat and to feel able to join in. I've already had loads of useful help and information in a short space of time and I've enjoyed joinimg in the less directly relevant stuff whether it has a serious or humorous thrust to it. How nice to be able to explore ideas and fun with fellow muso's. Lets' keep doing it! Viva The Cat!!!!!!!! |
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05 May 01 - 07:20 AM (#456366) Subject: RE: BS: What if Mudcat........... From: John Routledge Lovely to hear from a clear thinking newcomer. Welcome FRUG. Geordie Broon
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05 May 01 - 07:53 AM (#456373) Subject: RE: BS: What if Mudcat........... From: kendall Max created this site. Max knows what he wants it to be. Max knows that no matter what he does, someone will bitch about it. He could be a dictator and only allow posts that he approves of personally. He could bring down the "C" word on all our heads. He is young, but, he knows that no person should have that much power. Hell, I'm twice his age and believe me, you would not want me in charge! Of course there is a lot of silly stuff taking up space here, problem is, who defines "silly"? For instance,IMO, any mention of sports is silly, any mention of religeon is not good. How about we start a thread called TABOO SUBJECTS? That should make us all think. |
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05 May 01 - 08:17 AM (#456381) Subject: RE: BS: What if Mudcat........... From: John P All the negative stuff I keep hearing about doesn't exist on my version of Mudcat, since I leave those threads too quickly for the negativity to take hold. One of the advantages of the internet is that we can ignore what we don't like. John |
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05 May 01 - 09:48 AM (#456391) Subject: RE: BS: What if Mudcat........... From: Hollowfox I'm with you, Frug.(Welcome to the party, BTW). I joined the 'Cat because of my folk-music and -lore interests, but I found friends that had a similar sense of humor to mine. Then I read posts from folks who wanted to share a joy, or who needed a word of encouragement; something that friends share with each other (people who share interests and like each other = friends). Then I needed a kind word, and got it. But the music and folklore are the main things that hold the place together. I wish there were more questions to answer, but I haven't got any questions to post right now. Anybody wishing that there were more muic questions should find some questions to post! |
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05 May 01 - 10:18 AM (#456398) Subject: RE: BS: What if Mudcat........... From: Peg This is NOT just an internet site. It is a community. I know because I have met and socialized with REAL LIVE PEOPLE I have met through this little online community. Nothing ephemeral about that. Someone inviting you to sleep on their sofa because you are visiting their area, or inviting you to a meal because you are passing through, or offering you to a ride to a music festival because you are kinda on the way, or sending you a tape of three different versions of a song you have been looking for, or mailing you a book which is prohibitively expensive and/or hard to get in your country... all those things have happened in my life because of Mudcat. This is not just a damn website. Max is to be commended for creating something with VERY far-reaching effects, more so than just about any online bulletin board community I have been involved with (excepting the West Memphis Three support groups). Peg
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05 May 01 - 10:33 AM (#456404) Subject: RE: BS: What if Mudcat........... From: Jeri Regarding the "obituary," I've noticed that when someone dies, usually there is an outpouring of comments about what the departed meant to people. What seems to happen, even when someone is known to be dying, is people save up all their good comments until that person isn't around to hear them. "Kind words are useless when folks lie cold in a narrow bed I can't make the negative stuff go away. Other folks have different opinions, and while I can't understand why others seem to enjoy the acrimonious stuff, I can't (and I don't want to be able to) do anything about it. I think the majority of the crap happens because of the frustration of folks who want the forum and individuals to behave a certain way. The forum isn't one person or one set of opinions of beliefs. There is no overall vision of what it should be, there are many. It's anarchy, and in such a state, each person's conscience is what makes it civilised, not rules. I can choose to not support the crap. I can choose to discuss and argue rather than attack people. What's even better, I can focus on, and promote the things I enjoy. We don't like to think of the possibility of friends dying, so we don't consider what we'd say or do if they were gone. We don't want the burden of responsibility that comes with foresight. I don't like thinking about Mudcat going away. Rather than Max getting fed up and pulling the plug, I think it's far more likely that I'll get tired of the bickering, name-calling, offense taking, attempts to control, nit-picking, last-wording, etc., and just wander off. That doesn't seem too likely, because I'm getting better at just ignoring what I see as crap. I've learned a lot about human nature here, both good and bad. I've learned more about myself than anyone else. I've met some wonderful people so far. Disorganized teams have worked to get bits of knowledge and figure out how to do things. People have shared accomplishments and failures, new life, love and death here, and I've laughed or cried with them. I've seen incredible acts of kindness. It's the people and the bits of themselves they share that make it someplace I enjoy. Mudcat is just a site on the internet, but without Mudcat, the resources here, and the way Max has set up and runs the place, none of this communication could have happened.
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05 May 01 - 11:42 AM (#456433) Subject: RE: BS: What if Mudcat........... From: Naemanson I've always thought of this place as being a totally unique website because it is intended to bring musicians together to make music. And when we meet we have a good idea of what that person holds within because of this forum. Many of us are too shy or quiet in public or when confronted by others but here we bare our hearts and show it all, good and bad. When you post to this forum you may be able to hide what is in your heart when you first start to post but I believe we are seeing the real person here. I know more of some of these people than I know of people with whom I have worked for years. Jeri, thanks for that link. I have taken it to heart and I am going to hand the words to that song out to all my friends. So, returning to the original question, if we lost the Mudcat we would lose this connection and once more be separated from a large circle of friends with whom we share so much intimacy. |
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06 May 01 - 04:19 PM (#456520) Subject: RE: BS: What if Mudcat........... From: Roger in Sheffield Spot the dog...........this morning I woke up and it had gone, shorty, loki, ragtime, everything !! Thats when I realised what an addiction it has become. I was on a real downer until I dragged myself out into the real world, saw some mudcatters doing their stuff at Kelham along with a dancing shrub (no really, I was a bit drunk but it was dancing) Now I have a wee hangover, and Mudcat is back ! Thanks Max, Elves,........and beer! |
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06 May 01 - 04:53 PM (#456538) Subject: RE: BS: What if Mudcat........... From: Naemanson So now we know what would happen if Mudcat... |
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06 May 01 - 05:38 PM (#456565) Subject: RE: BS: What if Mudcat........... From: McGrath of Harlow I wish there was a Mudcat time-travel button - you'd click on a date, and up world come the threads as of that date.
There may have been some golden age before I started coming here, but I've got a certain scepticism about it, because I keep on coming on people talking in those terms about times when I have been visiting, and it doesn't fit with my memories.
Mostly I think it's a cyclical thing, maybe it ties in with the phases of the moon or something. But there are times when the whole place seems to be full of wrangling about everything under the sun except music and then you turn around, and it's all music, and you find yourself looking for a thread with a bit of a debate going on, and there don't seem to be any. And then you turn around and it's the other way.
And I'm perfectly confidant that, assuming it's still here in a few years, there'll be people saying how it's all shot to hell. "Why don't we ever see threads like the one about the hunt for The World is Old tonight"
The Mudcat is far better than we've any reason to expect it to be, and it needs all the bits and pieces, including even some of the bits that get up peoples noses. Even the pain-in-the-arse characters who waltz in with their GUEST-look-at-me acts and try to throw their weight around as to how the Mudcat ought to be, do maybe have a certain value. It's so great when they sod off. They are the equivalent of the occasional Mudcat crashes, like the one that set this thread going. Irritating, but they bring it home what a good "place" this is. |
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06 May 01 - 06:06 PM (#456582) Subject: RE: BS: What if Mudcat........... From: Joe Offer You hit the nail on the head, Kevin. If we get one thread like "The World Is Old Tonight" per year, it's all worthwhile. We get lots more than that. Yeah, we've always had a good amount of garbage and nastiness - but Mudcat has always been an extraordinary place for the exchange of folk music information. -Joe Offer- |
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06 May 01 - 06:20 PM (#456592) Subject: RE: BS: What if Mudcat........... From: Fibula Mattock A'right, this is a wee thank you to Max and the Joe-Clones (and the original Joe) for keeeping the place up and running. And since the shutdown seems to have got rid of the nasty threads, so much the better. Thanks guys. Fib (p.s. Max - kendall claims you're young - how young are you? Is that you modelling the T-shirts in the photo? I'm impressed by such a youthful deity. Honestly - thanks.) |
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06 May 01 - 06:33 PM (#456599) Subject: RE: BS: What if Mudcat........... From: CarolC I have a theory about these 'cycles'. I could be full of it, but it's a theory that holds my interest.
It looks to me, from the small amount of research I've done in old and new threads, like these times are a little like growing pains.
It looks to me like the Mudcat during the 'golden days' was a bit like a neighborhood. And people behaved like they would in such a context.
It looks to me like it moved a couple of years ago into a stage that was more like a small town. When that happened, I'm guessing there were some people who didn't feel good about that change and who resisted it, which may have resulted in some amount of fighting.
It looks to me like the Mudcat is growing beyond the small town stage into something bigger. It also looks to me like both the original 'neighborhood' people, as well as the subsequent 'small town' people are resisting this new growth, and are fighting with each other about this as well as anyone who is in favor of the new direction the Mudcat is moving in.
I'm thinking that change is inevitable. I'm also thinking that each of us can help to influence the direction of this change with our contributions to the forum. But I don't think any of us can control it. Except maybe to make everyone else miserable by turning it into a war zone. I don't see much point in that, myself.
Take care, everybody. Carol |
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06 May 01 - 06:33 PM (#456600) Subject: RE: BS: What if Mudcat........... From: Jon Freeman Perhaps your right McGrath but the cynic inside me says that the thread you mentioned turned out the way it did because Jean Ritchie asked the question. I find it impossible to imagine the same response had the same question been posed by a dreaded anonymous guest... Jon |
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06 May 01 - 06:43 PM (#456609) Subject: RE: BS: What if Mudcat........... From: CarolC I want to make a modification to my last post. I said...
It also looks to me like both the original 'neighborhood' people, as well as the subsequent 'small town' people are resisting this new growth, and are fighting with each other about this as well as anyone who is in favor of the new direction the Mudcat is moving in.
I think I should have said, some of the 'neighborhood' and 'small town' people. I certainly don't think everyone is fighting. Just a very visible few. Carol |
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06 May 01 - 07:10 PM (#456613) Subject: RE: BS: What if Mudcat........... From: catspaw49 Growing pains is about accurate Carol and it does seem to occur about every two months or so. This last one was a little overdue so maybe it was a bit nastier, but it ran about the average. Your analogy is excellent and pretty well describes the growth. Jon, you may be right, but in my case (and I pushed hard on that thread if you noticed) it was something totally different than any request we ever had, and if Jean were not here, the song may never have come up. As the only artist to record it along with the song being originally done by her sister, it presented something very different to work on. Jean was convinced her sister got it elsewhere, but in 30 years had never found where. Spaw |
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06 May 01 - 07:20 PM (#456617) Subject: RE: BS: What if Mudcat........... From: hesperis Yeah. Mudcat disappeared for me yesterday and most of today as well, and I was pretty upset. Especially with all the other upsetting things I've seen on the internet communities that I am a member of lately. At least I know that this one is founded by a person who believes in people. It really makes all the difference. (Or a really neat alien who's doing a really neat study of humanity. heheheh... :) ) |
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06 May 01 - 08:31 PM (#456649) Subject: RE: BS: What if Mudcat........... From: CarolC Thanks, Spaw.
Although I don't think the fighting part of the equation is necessarily inevitable. I think if people could learn to be graceful about what seems to me to be a natural process, the fighting could probably be eliminated altogether. Unless some people are fighting just because they enjoy fighting. That's a whole different kettle of fish, I reckon. |
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06 May 01 - 08:34 PM (#456652) Subject: RE: BS: What if Mudcat........... From: Little Hawk I pretty much agree with you, Carol. Very perceptive analysis. When a neighborhood develops into a small town, some people are not pleased. When a small town develops into a large town, a lot of people are not pleased. Some are so distressed about it that they move away and don't come back. In other words, Mudcat is just like real life, except, of course, it's happening on a computer screen. My town of Orillia is likely to mutate into a much larger place in the next 10 years (as did Barrie before it), and I'm not looking forward to that very much at all. I like it the way it was 5 years ago, before WalMart and the casino came here. - LH |
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06 May 01 - 08:55 PM (#456664) Subject: RE: BS: What if Mudcat........... From: CarolC Interesting point, Little Hawk. Although I think the Mudcat isn't suffering the same kind of growing pains as a town that's got a WalMart and a casino if only because the changes here are of a more organic variety, created by the input of a lot of individuals who have come here of their own free will. As opposed to WalMarts and casinos, which are imposed upon a lot of people by a few powerful individuals against the wishes of many. |
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06 May 01 - 09:11 PM (#456671) Subject: RE: BS: What if Mudcat........... From: Little Hawk Precisely. - LH |
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06 May 01 - 11:28 PM (#456724) Subject: RE: BS: What if Mudcat........... From: Big Red Have watched the Mudcat for over a year and have loved it all. The music information is way over the head of a limited talent such as me but I always gain a little from the discussions. An old "folkie", I am not always appreciative of all the newer trends in "folk" music but always supportive and tolerant. Some of the BS threads astound me in that passion so often overcomes discussion and reason, but that is the way of the world. Politically I have little in common with many of the frequent contributers, but find most of them very sincere in their beliefs. This helps me to understand the other points of view and often causes me to re-assess my own. Living in an area that does not have a lot to offer in the music that I love, the Mudcat keeps the interest high. Without it, life would be diminished for many of us. Long live the Mudcat! |
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07 May 01 - 01:39 AM (#456770) Subject: RE: BS: What if Mudcat........... From: Spud Murphy Back in the early thirties when I was a little snot nosed kid about seven or eight my brother Jack, about eight years oldern me was cookin flapjacks for breakfast because my mom was sick and she told him to. That was enough to piss him off just because of his natural instincts but it was a summer mornin in August and hottern a three dollar pistol and the flies was thick and buzzin around him and the griddle on the old cast iron wood stove was smokin hot and burnin the flapjacks and things just weren't goin his way a-tall. It all come to a head when a specially dirty-lookin big old black barn fly power-dived into a puddle of fresh batter on the griddle in a desperate effort to evade the homemade fly swatter that Jack was waving in the air over the stove, attemptin to protect his culinary achievements from endin up lookin like over done raisin toast. It was the straw that broke the camel's back and he flipped. He began viciously beating the air in a frenzy that would have been a credit to a dervish, except it wasn't done as any display of ecstatic devotion. Commercial Break: In following this and several other recent threads, I am struck by the parallel that they describe to my brother's childish tantrum of seventy years ago. At the risk of becoming a presumptuous and meddling 'NEWBIE' to this environment may I say that I think several of you would profit in your social graces by having received a 1930's education in civilized behavior. I mention all this as a very new frequenter of these premises who had the good fortune to join up at a time of peace and tranquility just prior to the heated debate of which this thread is part. Two, three months ago? I was looking for musical information at that time and found several of you eager and willing to help and do everything a good friend could do. I was so impressed, I gladly became a member at the suggestion of Mr. Offer so I could participate in the pleasant exchange that was ongoing at the time. I assumed a nom de plume (as seemed to be indicated by the enrollment instructions) and posted exclusively under it, (when in Rome, do as the Romans....?) at times including my real name if I thought I should, for reasons that legislated against using the cloak of anonymity. And now back to the conclusion of our story: As you will recall, Jack, when last seen, was swinging wildly at a horde of hot cake crazed barn flies (the real shitty kind.) In swingin that big old clumsy flyswatter around through space, he managed to catch a china platter from the dish cupboard that was an anniversary gift to Mom from "the old man." (Twentieth=China?) and sent it to eternity against the cast iron leg of that old ranch house stove. Needless to say, Jack got the crap knocked outa him when the "old man" found out. That was before the enlightened days of child rearing, when the point of razor strop discipline was to achieve civilized behavior and foster enduring relationships. Spud (George MacClanahan) |
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07 May 01 - 01:49 AM (#456774) Subject: RE: BS: What if Mudcat........... From: rangeroger Little Hawk, I thought Orilla was mutated to begin with. rr |
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07 May 01 - 08:50 AM (#456863) Subject: RE: BS: What if Mudcat........... From: Noreen Jon, I disagree with you very strongly on the issue of the "The World is Old" thread, and your suggestion that people only helped to find information because the seeker is famous. There have been numerous examples of mudcatters going to great lengths to seek out information for other mudcatters that they otherwise didn't know from Adam- one of my favourites being snows they melt ... - author?. This sort of request has always been dealt with enthusiastically for all the time that I've been coming here, despite surrounding negativity from time to time. I try to ignore that negativity and stick to the good stuff, which is what the majority of us come here for. Noreen |
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07 May 01 - 08:55 AM (#456864) Subject: RE: BS: What if Mudcat........... From: Matt_R Around this time next month, I'll have beeen here for 2 years. My theory is, when the chickens get restless, it's time to make some KFC! |
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07 May 01 - 11:20 AM (#456945) Subject: RE: BS: What if Mudcat........... From: hesperis KFC sucks. (hehehe) |
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07 May 01 - 12:08 PM (#456983) Subject: RE: BS: What if Mudcat........... From: Matt_R Whatever you say, Spaghetti Girl! |
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07 May 01 - 12:18 PM (#456995) Subject: RE: BS: What if Mudcat........... From: MMario the only thing you can count on is that things will change I like the analogy of a small town going through growing pains. Some changes are easier to take then others - my home town went from having the entire school system enclosed in one building to five sepearate schools, now has several malls, mini-malls etc - when I grew up with the little mom and pop grocery store, smaller then most gas station mini-marts. But the killer change - which knocked me for a loop - was the second pair of stop lights installed last fall. |
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07 May 01 - 12:34 PM (#457023) Subject: RE: BS: What if Mudcat........... From: McGrath of Harlow I sometimes like exploring differences, and ferreting out the agreements that often underlie the differences, and I like seeing other people do the same. Within the bounds of good fellowship.
I'd hate us to turn into the kind of set-up where arguments aren't allowed because they are divisive, and topics that might give rise to arguments are frowned on. Anything you care about enough for it to matter has to be something where there is the makings of an argument, when it turns out other people see it differently. That applies to musical stuff as much as it does to other stuff.
Quarrels and insults and so forth are quite different, and they just mess up good arguments, and mess up things for everyone. Even when in the course of a discussion it dawns on you that someone is not at all your cup of tea, nothing is gained by moving into insult mode on the net. Maybe that's when PMs come in handy - which is one reason why staying as a GUEST in the long run is not a friendly thing to do. (And I know there are circumstances when it can't be helped, such as using a computer that won't allow cookies. Most of the time that's not why people stay as GUEST though, I suspect.) |
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07 May 01 - 12:40 PM (#457028) Subject: RE: BS: What if Mudcat........... From: CarolC I hear you MMario. We've got the opposite problem here. We don't have any traffic lights. Just four way stops. One of them is causing traffic to back up several blocks into the center of town. The people here have been arguing for years over what the best solution would be.
Some of them want a traffic light. That'll probably never happen. Some want to put a by-pass around the town for traffic that's just passing through. That idea sounds like a good one to me, but it's probably expensive. I can't remember what the other idea is.
But, because nobody can agree on what to do, nothing gets done at all. It's a sticky situation. Carol |
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07 May 01 - 02:23 PM (#457130) Subject: RE: BS: What if Mudcat........... From: Little Hawk rangeroger - Well, yes, I suppose you could say that Orillia was already mutated... It started a very long time ago as a gathering place for the Hurons, also called the Wendat, because there were (and are) very handy lakes and rivers here. Later the Chippewas came into the same area. At the narrows, between Lake Couchiching and Lake Simcoe, the travelling Indians would stop and fish and camp out for lengthy periods. It's still a favored fishing spot. I guess you could kind of say it's gone downhill since those days. - LH |
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07 May 01 - 08:09 PM (#457448) Subject: RE: BS: What if Mudcat........... From: Jeri I disagree with you too, Jon. I searched all over the net for info on "The World is Old," and I've done the same thing for other folks. So have quite a few people here.
George/Spud...I love it! |
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08 May 01 - 05:43 AM (#457682) Subject: RE: BS: What if Mudcat........... From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler Well, if the Mudcat ceased to exist, I'd probably get more work done but my quality of life might be seriously impaired! RtS |
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08 May 01 - 09:25 AM (#457784) Subject: RE: BS: What if Mudcat........... From: Gervase Hell's Bells - let's have a reality check here chaps! The Mudcat is a tool at most; a facilitator. If it ceased to exist it would not be the end of the world. Full stop. Deep breath. We are all of us (I hope) capable of interacting with each other in the real world, and will continue to do so long after the last phospor dot has vanished from the screen. This is a virtual community, not a real one. Enjoy it for its good points, don't piss on it, but don't let it be a subsitute for reality. To be sure, while accessing the Mudcat I've read things that have made me cry, made me seethe with rage and made me change my view of the world. But we all do that every day in other ways, too - be it by reading a newspaper, listening to the radio or shooting the breeze over a drink. If Max decides tomorrow to pull the plug, life will go on. Other online communities will spring up, and I'm sure people will one day say of Son-of-son-of Mudcat: "Oh yes, I remember it before all the bitching started..." before breaking off to start another virtual community. It's part of human nature to nurtuer and then to destroy - maybe it shouldn't be, but no-one has yet managed to reprogramme us otherwise. I've also enountered some terrific people through this "place"; many of whom I wouldn't have met had it not been for the Mudcat, and yes, I'd feel a pang at losing that opportunity; of losing friends I've yet to make. But maybe the best way to look at what we have here is like a holiday romance. So, if anyone really does have Mudcat Dependency Syndrome, please seek help soonest - it's not good for you. |
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08 May 01 - 11:19 AM (#457882) Subject: RE: BS: What if Mudcat........... From: Peter T. Interesting, gervase -- how about a long ocean cruise as a metaphor (we have used it around here occasionally). I have been here a long time, since just after Max started (bless him), and have only had one really bad day with this community ever since. Which beats my regular community a lot. I vary my own diagnosis from cybermenses (as McGrath states) to the growing pains (as Carol states). None of it matters much, as long as there is a solid ground of decent manners and love of the music. yours, Peter T. |
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08 May 01 - 12:14 PM (#457932) Subject: RE: BS: What if Mudcat........... From: bill\sables I feel that Mudcat is what we make it, you say it is not a real community Gervase, perhaps after the Yorkshire Gathering you will feel different. I have been a folkie since the early sixties and know quite a lot of other folkies in my own region, then others from other parts of the UK would meet up at various festivals once a year, but with Mudcat there seems to be one big worldwide folk club where we can exchange songs, tunes, traditions and information regarding instruments etc. I have just returned from the German gathering where people from 5 countries met together for the first time and bonded as though we had known each other for many years. I have met and played with many Americian and Canadian catters with the same bonding result. These people are real and I feel that it has enriched my life by being part of this community. I have made friendships which, I am sure will stay with me for the rest of my life. I am sure Max didn't envisage what Mudcat would turn out to be when he first thought of it but it has turned into what it is by the efforts of it's members. If you go back to the threads regarding Catspaws illness about 3 years ago you will find that it is a true caring community and I hope it will stay that way for ever. Cheers Bill |
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08 May 01 - 02:05 PM (#458041) Subject: RE: BS: What if Mudcat........... From: Morticia I hate to gang up on you Gervase, my old friend, but I have to agree with Bill, and Peter and Peg (but stated in another thread) this is a REAL community.How can it be other? It exists,it is an important part of people's day, people meet on here and in 3d to talk, make music, get drunk whatever....if it isn't real, what is it? UNLESS....Omigod, this is all a figment of my imagination, isn't it? |
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08 May 01 - 03:20 PM (#458129) Subject: RE: BS: What if Mudcat........... From: Mary in Kentucky Jon, I'm still looking for this one. You're right though, if it had been an anonymous request I probably would have let it slide on by. But because it came from you...well...I'm still looking and listening! |
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09 May 01 - 05:44 AM (#458536) Subject: RE: BS: What if Mudcat........... From: Gervase Maybe I was being a bit hasty above and could be seen as pissing on people's chips, for which I apologise. I wasn't intending to knock the Mudcat concept - certainly at the moment it's the only one we've got so, yes, let's keep it working. But maybe we're all being a bit hasty and Chicken Licken-ish here. It's highly unlikely that we'll fire up our browsers one morning and find that the Mudcat isn't there. If or when it does go, it will probably be a long time a-dying, with periods of remission and relapse along the way, and in the course of that decline I'm sure other sites will spring up and we'll be chatting bonding and bitching on those. That's what I mean when I said that the Mudcat was "merely" a facilitator. The community which does exist - and it's a wonderful thing to meet other people with shared interests and for whom no introduction is necessary - will continue whatever the forum is called because it's made of real people. That said, I'm bloody glad that Dick and Sue and then Max set the ball rolling with the DT and later the Mudcat, and I hope it's around for as long as it needs to be - after all, it's a first (in the field of folk and blues, at any rate - other forums and BBSs have been around for longer than the WWW). But when it's not, we'll all meet up somewhere else. On the Outside Track maybe. |
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09 May 01 - 06:44 AM (#458552) Subject: RE: BS: What if Mudcat........... From: McGrath of Harlow Interesting, gervase -- how about a long ocean cruise as a metaphor (Peter T)
It's highly unlikely that we'll fire up our browsers one morning and find that the Mudcat isn't there. (Gervase)
Right now there are two threads about the Titanic...
"Pissing on people's chips" - what a nasty image, Gervase - I hope it's gambling it refers to and not cuisine.
If the Mudcat ever goes bottom up, something will come along that will fill some of the gap. But I hope that's a long time off, because I can't see the peculiar chemistry of this place coming together again in a hurry. As Joe Offer said, the chances of the kind of people who can do the necessary behind-the-scenes fiddling about being the kind of people who will want to do that stuff are not that great.
I suppose some of the nastiness we get at times actually comes out of people recognising that the Mudcat is something to be cherished, but they go about defending it in the wrong way, in a way that damages and endangers it. It's an old story that's happened many many times in the big world.
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09 May 01 - 07:52 AM (#458572) Subject: RE: BS: What if Mudcat........... From: IanC Jon I think I also want to take you to task for your cynicism, though I don't really mean it personally. I took part in that thread and I have no real idea who the hell Jean Ritchie / Kytrad is except for seeing her around the Mudcat. Though, as part of that thread, I did come to know much more about her. If you want to know how some of the people contributing to that thread have contributed to others, you only have to click their FROM: entry in the top left of their contribution. It's something I often do, especially when I get annoyed by something someone has said. It can often be a humbling experience and has certainly helped me to cope with things that have occasionally got to me.
Cheers! |
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09 May 01 - 11:57 AM (#458723) Subject: RE: BS: What if Mudcat........... From: GUEST,Mr Red@Library. Grafitto on a wall at Pompei (translated & paraphrased) methinks 'tis a wonder that this wall does not fall with the weight of rubbish heaped upon it of course there were plenty of the usual smut as well. plus ca change |
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12 May 01 - 08:33 PM (#461205) Subject: RE: BS: What if Mudcat........... From: Dave Wynn I have just returned from a weeks holiday in South West Scotland. so I am reading this after a complete break......It reads good to me. Most people seem to have their own agenda but most agendas are sympathetic. Thanks Max. I took my Mum....she is 87 years old. Riddled with arthritis and other health problems. We got her out to all the shops and her favourite tea shops. She walked whenever she could. Weather was perfect.....food excellent....she told me all about family related things at night 'round the fire.....told me how much she loved life and didn't want to leave it...mind like a razor!!!...I got to thinking that this could very well be the last holiday with Mum and saw mortality. 'Spose what I am saying is that we don't always appreciate what we have until too late....... "Look ye also while life lasts"...Denys Watkins Pytchford. Spot
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