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19 May 01 - 11:23 AM (#466241) Subject: UK footpaths, a modest proposal From: Gervase Non-music, I know (although, of course, there's this), but I for one am getting hacked off with the failure of local authorities in the UK to re-open footpaths now that movement restrictions have been lifted in the FMD epidemic. I know it's no coincidence that those authorities who are most tardy in doing so are those with a high proportion of farmers and landowners as councillors, so how about ordinary walking folk doing something about it? Would it be preposterous to have a mass trespass, as happened on Kinder Scout, so that we can once again reclaim our paths and byways? If enough people simply ignored the closure notices in those areas where there is and has not been any FMD, what better way of showing that we've had enough of the quasi-feudal nature of so much in rural politics in the UK? I know it's short notice, but what about the Whitsun weekend for a pleasant walk in the country? I'm not suggesting that we walk as individuals, exposing ourselves to intimidation and possible arrest, but enough people in a few places in some of the most offending counties - Bucks, Berks and Lincs spring to mind - may have some effect. The Rambler s' Association was formed in the aftermath of the first mass trespass; today it seems to be merely asking members to ask their local councils to re-open the footpaths and otherwise stick to urban walks. Pah! I'm firing off a stack of e-mails to various letters pages and lobby groups (I'll keep you posted as to feedback), but if we all started getting stroppy, maybe something would happen. If any 'Catters are keen walkers, I'd appreciate their views. |
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19 May 01 - 11:35 AM (#466244) Subject: RE: BS: UK footpaths, a modest proposal From: Gervase Bugger! The first blicky above was meant to link to the Manchester Rambler, Ewan MacColl's song written to celebrate the mass trespass from Hayfield onto Kinder in April 1932 which resulted in imprisonment of 5 walkers and led eventually to the National Parks Act of 1949 which enabled the Ramblers' Association to negotiate with landowners to establish the freedom to walk over open countryside. For more on the original trespass and its remarkable leader, see this. |
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19 May 01 - 07:16 PM (#466490) Subject: RE: BS: UK footpaths, a modest proposal From: Liz the Squeak Gervase, you really are getting into this campaign lark aren't you..... I agree actually, although as my aunt and uncle are farmers, can see the other side of the argument. The restrictions can only be lifted BECAUSE they were so heavy to start with..... With cases still being confirmed, it's not sensible to push our luck... LTS |
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20 May 01 - 04:02 AM (#466685) Subject: RE: BS: UK footpaths, a modest proposal From: Roughyed Leaving aside the Foot and Mouth complication, why are we so restricted in the UK anyway. I am fed up with being treated like an enemy in my own country. I go abroad and find you can stop in a forest and just walk. No keep out signs, no private property, no barbed wire fences. But not in Britain. It's time we demanded our own country back. How come land reform does not feature in any of the main political parties' platforms? And another thing, why do we actually need livestock farming anyway? The tourist industry makes us much more money and all livestock farming seems to do is restrict people and try to poison the world. |
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20 May 01 - 10:17 AM (#466754) Subject: RE: BS: UK footpaths, a modest proposal From: Peg hello my UK friends. Though I do not live in your fair country I can say I AM an avid walker of English footpaths and had to reconsider a trip I'd planned to the UK in June because of the foot and mouth crisis, since I wanted to eb able to spend time in the countryside as I usually do... I sympathize with your feeling of being imprisoned by those who arte not necessarily managing this crisis as effectively as they might have. But I am reminded of something an English friend said to me at the beginning of all this; she is one of the caretakers of a prominent sacred site which had to be closed for some time to foot traffic. She said that when the walking restrictions first were implemented, there were a nuber of locals who paid them no mind, because they did not want to be told what to do, and in the spirit of "protest" they encouraged other sto defy the ban: thus running the risk of spreading the disease, and perpetuating the crisis. She said she thought this was very selfish and I hasd to agree. I do NOT think your proposal is the result of selfishness, not at all. And I support your desire to get back tot heland. But I agree with Liz that perhaps it is best to hold off on such activity until somre more time with no new confirmed cases has gone by... And Swan, I have to say, living in the U.S. where every bit of countryside that is not government owned has "No Trespassing" (often to prevent illegal hunting and trapping) signs on it, my first visit to the UK some years ago, where I could walk on public footpaths throughout the countryside, was like a breath fo fresh air... Peg
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20 May 01 - 12:26 PM (#466823) Subject: RE: BS: UK footpaths, a modest proposal From: katlaughing Only some parts of the USA, Peg. Come out here to Wyoming and Colorado and I'll take you on some great hikes all over with no signs posted anywhere! |
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21 May 01 - 07:25 PM (#467434) Subject: RE: BS: UK footpaths, a modest proposal From: Grab Swan, it's not all "yours". If someone wandered in through your front gate, walked through your flower bed, pissed on your lettuces, and left through the hedge, you'd be a bit unhappy! For the agriculture point - it depends. From an environmental point of view, it's better to raise food supplies close to where they're needed so that you don't have to transport them for long distances. Shipping strawberries from Australia to the UK in January, for example, is very heavy on jet-fuel, and is unnecessarily hard on the environment. In addition, the British ecology is evolved with farming in mind - if fields of grass weren't cut (or otherwise trimmed by animals) then the various other plants and creatures which also live there would die out. That's not to say that it has to be done intensively - if we can't physically use all that we produce (and much of the EU's produce is still going to waste, although less than there used to be) then there's no point going balls-out to produce it. I'm personally amazed at the Common Agricultural Policy - even given the example of the USSR's hubris in setting top-down policies, they still wanted to do the same thing. :-( As a _very_ keen walker, I'm all in favour of footpaths. As kat points out, in wilderness areas it's immaterial since there's nothing much to damage - in Scotland for instance you'll mainly only find footpaths in the Borders. But in lowland areas, "freedom to roam" is identical to "freedom to stomp crops" - criminal trespass is only applicable if you catch the buggers responsible! If there's no restriction on where you can walk in a field, ppl will walk over it all with the inevitable consequences. Too many walkers really don't care about what state they leave the place in. This may sound snobbish, but it's particularly true of ppl who've lived in large towns and cities all their lives - street-sweepers will pick up dropped crisp packets and cans in a town, but there's no-one to do that in the hills! Gervase, the recent "hot-spot" of FMD shows it's a good idea to err on the side of caution! Graham.
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22 May 01 - 06:49 AM (#467732) Subject: RE: BS: UK footpaths, a modest proposal From: GUEST,Lanfranc at the orifice Watch this space, Rambler chums, for New Labour has plans to set up a new agency incorporating that freedom-loving bunch of economic geniuses known as MAFF to control access to the countryside, among other things. It should set the right to roam back about, oh, say three centuries! Will find more details and post later.
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22 May 01 - 07:04 AM (#467738) Subject: RE: BS: UK footpaths, a modest proposal From: Skipjack K8 Four legs good, two legs better! To think that the media had all angles covered by TV cameras, before the Egg Man of Rhyl got a slapping from porcine Prezza, and it took Napoleon five days to work it out. Ha ha ha ha ha. Agree with all points bar Swan, who comes across as mercilfully free of the ravages of intelligence. Suggest phased (not adjoining livestock grazing) opening of footpaths in all counties unaffected, including a 20 mile radius of unaffected counties adjoining those with recorded outbreaks. This ain't exactly self serving, as the marshlands and saltings of Essex are within a couple of miles of the most recent Essex outbreak, and that's the place I want to return to most. Skipjack |
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22 May 01 - 08:49 AM (#467775) Subject: RE: BS: UK footpaths, a modest proposal From: Peg sounds reasonable, Skipjack; as long as the wild creatures who might carry the disease are accounted for, too (they might live in walking areas not necessarily close to livestock...
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22 May 01 - 11:54 AM (#467885) Subject: RE: BS: UK footpaths, a modest proposal From: sian, west wales There are a number of footpaths opening in various parts of Wales - for instance, four in Snowdon, I think. Quite a few in West Wales as well - including many stretches of cycle track. I am not in favour of wholesale opening just yet; there is still too great a chance of infection or reinfection. Many people don't realize just how deep, economically, the effects of the crisis are within the rural economy and society. I am in an unaffected area, and an area which produces 10 to 15 per cent of the UK's milk. Infection would be disasterous for us, although we're opening many paths which won't compromise farms. Keep to the paths which are opening - they'll be increasing exponentially this month. A little co-operation is much appreciated. sian
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22 May 01 - 06:30 PM (#468177) Subject: RE: BS: UK footpaths, a modest proposal From: Roughyed OK, I was feeling a bit grumpy. I agree about the environmental impact of growing food away from where it is consumed - but there again I am a vegetarian so I don't have a lot of sympathy for livestock farmers. It is a constant battle to keep footpaths open in the UK in normal times with farmers probably the worst offenders. I don't think that being in favour of land reform is an indication of lack of intelligence and I have more respect for people who actually engage in argument rather than insult people, Skipjack. |
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23 May 01 - 05:22 AM (#468505) Subject: RE: BS: UK footpaths, a modest proposal From: Gervase In the light of the reflorescence of FMD in Yorkshire, maybe a wholesale reopening of paths is not a good idea, Still, got this from the Ramblers, which is in itself fairly encouraging: Thanks for your comments, left at the RA website, which I've forwarded to the head of our FMD policy team. Let me assure you we're making great efforts to pressure councils into reopening paths, with some success in certain areas, although by no means enough as yet. We are not just recommending people to go on urban walks: the urban walks page has been online since the beginning of the crisis and is an important resource which will remain useful even when the FMD crisis is over, but we are also trying to point people in the direction of countrysdie where they can walk. Our Long Distance Paths section now contains summaries of current openings and closures for all the National Trails and Scottish Long Distance Routes, and we'd love to include more information, but it is not easy to come by -- even some local authorities profess not to know which paths they have opened and closed -- and we do not have the resources to collate it. I hope this answers at least some of your points. Best wishes Des de Moor Information Officer Ramblers' Association, 2nd floor Camelford House, 87-90 Albert Embankment, London SE1 7TW England Phone +44 (0)20 7339 8534 Fax +44 (0)20 7339 8559 |
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23 May 01 - 07:16 AM (#468538) Subject: RE: BS: UK footpaths, a modest proposal From: Skipjack K8 Thought that would get you off the fence, Swan, old love. I aoplogise for the jibe. Definite case of a stone throwing market gardener on my part. God knows I've depleted the little common sense I was issued. Just a thought; are the grumpiness and the meat free diet connected? I've been told never to spoil an apology with an excuse, so I'll quit while I'm behind. Sorry! Skipjack |
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23 May 01 - 11:26 AM (#468665) Subject: RE: BS: UK footpaths, a modest proposal From: Grab Swan, you may not agree with livestock farming, but many species would not survive without it. There's lots of birds nest in short grass, and it's cows and sheep that keep the grass short and allow the birds to continue. Cutting fields with machinery tends to interfere with the birds' hatching times, whereas cows will just graze around them. I'll certainly agree, there's some farmers take liberties with footpaths, making arbitrary diversions, ploughing them up altogether, or simply fencing them off. The majority though are considerate ppl who realise that getting walkers across their land in as orderly a fashion as possible is best for everyone, and signposting of footpaths in lowland areas is generally pretty good, much better than 10 years ago when I started walking on my own. Trouble is, since the signposting's got better, you get more ppl walking who shouldn't be allowed to leave their own homes without an escort! Litter gets worse, and soil erosion in the Peaks (my "local") is noticeably worse in many areas, requiring the National Trust to install steps and stone pathways in many places. Of course, this makes it easier to get up there, so you get more ppl walking who... etc, etc. Where a National Trust can cover erosion and install bins in popular stopping places, all well and good, but a farmer who has to cover this out of his own pocket will be rightly annoyed. To say nothing of damage to walls and fences, gates left open, etc. Basically, I'd be in favour of the Countryside Code being a legal document, with on-the-spot fines payable to the farmer for violation! :-) Graham. |