28 Jul 01 - 04:42 PM (#516768) Subject: 'Other' Ox Driving Song From: Sourdough One of the news anchors on WBZ in Boston used to be a folksinger. He was part of a group called The Mandrells, three African Americans who sang tight harmonies without accompaniment. One of their songs, kind of their signature song, was something I have never heard anyone else sing. It is an ox driving song but does NOT begin with "I pop my whip and I bring the blood", it is totally unrelated except by subject matter. Some of the terms are unfamiliar to me me so I have made sense of them phonetically. Here are the fragments I can remember. It is a powerful song.
"Whoa, back Buck 'n Gee by the Lamb
____ won't ___ and _______ won't pull.
"Eighteen, nineteen, twenty years ago, Sourdough click for related thread |
28 Jul 01 - 06:10 PM (#516796) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Other' Ox Driving Song From: Jeri Doesn't Max sing this one? Is it from Leadbelly? |
28 Jul 01 - 06:15 PM (#516799) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Other' Ox Driving Song From: Amos Dunno if Leadbelly did or not but I sang it way back when -- thirty years ago or so. With words missing!! A neat trick. I believe backband is a msinterpretation of "black man". The blanks are names of oxen -- perhaps Buck and Sal. Glad to be reminded of it -- I haven't thought of this in many years, except for the one part that has made its way onto the post-60's vernacular, the expression "Whoa Goddamn!!". A |
28 Jul 01 - 06:44 PM (#516817) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Other' Ox Driving Song From: Sourdough Leadbelly sounds right. Looks like we're getting closer. Sourdough |
28 Jul 01 - 08:33 PM (#516871) Subject: ADD: Whoa Back Buck^^ From: Art Thieme It's called "Whoa Back Buck" strangely.
chorus)
1819--20 years ago,
Me and my gal walkin' down the road,
My old man's a good old man,
Papa loved mama---mama loved men,(three times) (These are the verses I used to sing.)^^
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28 Jul 01 - 08:36 PM (#516872) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Other' Ox Driving Song From: Deckman Guy Carawan, on his first Folkways album (I think) recorded the best version I've ever heard. CHEERS, Bob (deckman) Nelson |
28 Jul 01 - 08:43 PM (#516875) Subject: ADD: Whoa Back Buck ^^ From: Art Thieme I always thought it was sung to his mule. The verse should've been:
My old man's good old man another few verse I thought of:
I gee to the mule but the mule wouldn't gee, (3 times)
I haw to the mule wouldn't haw, (3 times) Art Thieme ^^ |
28 Jul 01 - 08:55 PM (#516882) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Other' Ox Driving Song From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) I remember "My old man is a good old man" verse, but there are elements here that seem to belong to another song, the one in Sourdough's posting. Would like to see more. |
28 Jul 01 - 08:59 PM (#516885) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Other' Ox Driving Song From: Stewie There was a previous thread on this song: I have an unissued recording on a 1989 Blues Time LP (Victor 05197) that Leadbelly made with the Golden Gate Quartet in June 1940. The lyrics are pretty close to what Dr John posted in previous thread with some extra verses. There's an oldtimey connection here, but I can't remember what it is. The latter stanzas in Art's version above look like floaters from the white tradition. I recall that there was a discussion of the song on the oltimey newsgroup about a year ago, but I don't know how to access their archives. --Stewie. |
28 Jul 01 - 09:19 PM (#516894) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Other' Ox Driving Song From: Stewie There's a set of lyrics here that Leadbelly must have moderated for the kiddies: --Stewie. |
29 Jul 01 - 01:00 PM (#517187) Subject: ADD: WHOA, HAW, BUCK AND JERRY BOY^^^ From: raredance Another recorded version of the song is on "The Brothers Four: In Person" (Columbia CL 1828) Here's another song that may in some way be connected. It is much older. It was preserved by an early director of the Mormon Tabernacle Choir, who said the song was sung when he crossed the plains in the late 1850's. A raucous recorded version of this is on the LP album by the Three D's called "Mormon Folk Ballads", produced and distrubited by the Department of Audio Visual Communication, Brigham Young University, Provo, Utah. (I wouldn't be looking for this to appear on CD any time soon). The tune is a variant of "Turkey In the Straw". The lyrics are found in "Mormon Songs From the Rocky Mountains" edited by Thomas E. Cheney ( 1968, American Folklore Society, lib cong. #68-63018).
WHOA, HAW, BUCK AND JERRY BOY
rich r ^^^ ;-) |
29 Jul 01 - 01:40 PM (#517209) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Other' Ox Driving Song From: Amos Beautiful, rich!! A |
29 Jul 01 - 06:47 PM (#517345) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Other' Ox Driving Song From: Art Thieme "gee" and "haw" = right and left = starboard and port =... The "My old man" verse was from the song "Old Dan Tucker". Art Thieme |
29 Jul 01 - 07:38 PM (#517382) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Other' Ox Driving Song From: Snuffy WHOA, HAW, BUCK AND JERRY BOY is in the DT from a 1995 recording by Cory Webster and several other musicians at the University of Utah. Also in the DT are ALL-E-OXEN FREE, THE OXEN PLOUGHING, AND THE OXEN SONG. |
29 Jul 01 - 08:34 PM (#517411) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Other' Ox Driving Song From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Art Thieme has some of Sourdough's lyrics, but there are more out there in an unexpurgated version.I hope someone will come up with it. Whoa, goddamn! |
30 Jul 01 - 01:53 AM (#517505) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Other' Ox Driving Song From: toadfrog I can't lay my hands on my copy right now, but I believe there are lyrics in the Lomax book. His first verse went: Old buck done baulk and old Tom won't pull, Papa gonna cut that other li'l bull. Whoa, back and gee by the Lamb! Who made the backband, whoa goddamn. Leadbelly is the guy who sang it. A backband is a piece of harness. |
30 Jul 01 - 01:56 AM (#517506) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Other' Ox Driving Song From: toadfrog That clickie above for related thread takes you straight back to this one. I call that downright incestuous. I call that an honest mistake, made by me... In my old age, I realize that I've made a lot of 'em. ;-) I fixed it. Note that the other thread has the Lomax lyrics. -Joe Offer- |
30 Jul 01 - 03:09 AM (#517526) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Other' Ox Driving Song From: Anglo Whoa Back Buck is a song Michael Cooney has sung a lot over the years. I first heard it on a recording by Lonnie Donegan (and I guess that dates me). |
30 Jul 01 - 01:25 PM (#517779) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Other' Ox Driving Song From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Leadbelly's cleaned-up version is on the Smithsonian site, along with others that he sang. Lonnie Donnegan prob. had an expurgated version on his recording (is it still in print?). Still hope someone can come up with a better version. |
30 Jul 01 - 03:24 PM (#517860) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Other' Ox Driving Song From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) The Traditional Ballad Index (www.csufresno.edu/folklore/balladsearch.html) gives references and suggests that Leadbelly revised it from an older tune, and that Lomax further revised it. As Art Thieme said, it is a mule-driving song originally. |
30 Jul 01 - 03:43 PM (#517870) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Other' Ox Driving Song From: Art Thieme A big early influence on me, Bob Gibson, did this in the the 1950s. He put it on one of his Riverside LPs. It's now on CD as a part of the compilation from those days called JOY JOY! The Young And Wonderful Bob Gibson taken from those halcion days in Chicago. (Riverside RIVCD-9909-2) I originally got my version of this song from Bob but it just evolved as the years passed. Art Thieme |
30 Jul 01 - 07:50 PM (#517999) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Other' Ox Driving Song From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Thanks, Art. I will look for the Gibson cd at Camsco. |
31 Jul 01 - 05:08 PM (#518609) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Other' Ox Driving Song From: Dave Swan Great stuff here. We sang the Star Spangeled Banner last Sunday at the Stanislaus County Draft Horse and Ox pull in scenic Turlock, California. I wish I'd had this song then. What a great day, a county fair, a little singing (52 seconds in our arrangement)and a chance to hang out with several teams of oxen. I really enjoy their company. Some of this is familiar from an mule driving song which p.j. sings. I think the reference to a back band must be inheirited from the mule skinners, as there isn't a back band associated with the yoke and bows used on oxen. |
30 Jan 03 - 07:54 PM (#878736) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Other' Ox Driving Song From: raredance A version of "Whoa Back Buck" was also recorded in 1963 by the Rooftop Singers, the tio Eric Darling formed after he left the Weavers. rich r |
31 Jan 03 - 01:23 AM (#878879) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Other' Ox Driving Song From: mg veeering off the subject here...the lost boys of Africa (I just forgot what country) were from a culture that made up songs about their cows. And they have continued to make up songs about cows. I hope someone collects them. When they were finally accepted into the U.S. they hoped to go to Chicago because they saw all these people wearing Chicago Bulls t shirts and thought here is a place that appreciates cows (this is not bullshit..honest). Anyway, it is a very sad story with a somewhat good ending I hope. mg |