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05 Oct 01 - 10:25 AM (#565643) Subject: Help a Fledgling Folksinger From: BluesMojo Hi everybody. My name is Kyle. I've posted here a couple times as a guest, but mainly I've been lurking round here for quite some time and thought I would finally make some attempt to participate a bit. Well, that and I need some help. Basically, I'm a musician with a wide range of tastes, but lately I've become stricken with the desire to record an album of trad folksongs and put it on mp3.com. Not exactly an original desire, but a desire nonetheless. Now, I have a list here that I made of songs that I think I could do a good job with (I'm trying to do my own arrangements and sort of put a new spin on these songs), but I have no idea as to the legality of selling a CD of these songs, as some I think are copyrighted and others are public domain. My main question is, could I get sued for recording any of these songs, as long as I use my own arrangements? I can't find copyright information anywhere. If you guys could help me or just point me to a thread I've been missing, I'd appreciate it.
Little Maggie My other fear is that these songs are sort of the 'popular' folksongs, and are overplayed and overrecorded as it is. If anyone has any suggestions, I'm always looking to expand my repertoire.. -kyle wade P.S.: On an utterly unrelated note, I went to my first bluegrass festival a couple weeks ago. 13 hours of some of the best music I've ever heard. Not only that, I got to meet and shake hands with Ralph Stanley. He answered a question I had about learning the banjo and signed a t-shirt. Alas, this story impresses nobody. I thought I'd share, anyway. |
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05 Oct 01 - 10:37 AM (#565652) Subject: RE: BS: Help a Fledgling Folksinger From: katlaughing Welcome to the Mudcat, Kyle! If yo put the word "copyright" in the search box for threads, then set the date filter back at least 2 years, if not 3, there are a bunch of threads which discuss and answer all kinds of copyright questions. I know there is a link, in one of them, at least, to the government website where one can findout more and search to see if a song is still under copyright protection. I am sure other, more capable than I, will answer your other questions. Al the best, kat |
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05 Oct 01 - 11:31 AM (#565680) Subject: RE: BS: Help a Fledgling Folksinger From: Steve in Idaho My one, and only, experience with copywrite is simple. If the song is copywrited then you apply to the owner to publish. This is usually BMI or ASCAP. You will need to let them know how many copies you are going to make, what price you are going to sell them for, and what your market is (strictly US or overseas). You will then get a license to make however many copies you requested and are charged for them - up front. I used a John Denver song and his rules were that he had to personnally review the context to approve or disapprove. Most writers let a manager do this. If you use a song and don't get permission you can be sued - and most companies are quite ready to do this. Especially with Napster and all of its side effects. I'd suggest you go to BMI and get one of their packets for requesting use of a song. Probably could go to their website and download one - or use their FAQs to get more info. Material that is copywrited is that way for a reason and to infringe is theft. At least in my opinion. As Baxter Black said, "Why make copies? I've got lots of 'em layin' around." It has been quite some time since I went through this process, and it is a process, so if this is outdated I apologize. Good luck with your project! Steve |
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05 Oct 01 - 11:37 AM (#565683) Subject: RE: BS: Help a Fledgling Folksinger From: BluesMojo Yeah, I'm fairly aware of the procedure for copyrighted stuff like that, I was wondering more about traditional/public domain songs. Who do I go to, if anyone, if I'm doing a traditional/public domain song and using my own arrangement? I've tried to pick songs that I wouldn't have to pay for, because I wouldn't be able to :) |
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05 Oct 01 - 12:06 PM (#565710) Subject: RE: BS: Help a Fledgling Folksinger From: Steve in Idaho Traditional, as far as I know, requires nothing. Arrangements are the individuals way of expressing the tune/song. I've done a couple of things with trad tunes and have had no problems - and they are free. I certainly understand the "pay for" thing. I lost my butt on my deal! Vowed to never do it again!! When you are done post it on the forum as lots of musicians here swap CDs (me for one) and others buy them. Steve |
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05 Oct 01 - 02:57 PM (#565805) Subject: RE: BS: Help a Fledgling Folksinger From: BluesMojo I sure will. And hey, if you're interested, I've already got one CD up on mp3.com, made with a friend. The group is called Crystal Deuces (After a prostitute, so classy) and the music is sort of a combination of my folk/blues/classic rock background and his love for 90s alternative pop type stuff. We've got a pretty wide range of styles, our first CD tried to be a something for everybody kind of thing. Warning: The sound quality is awful on some of these. We recorded this in my room with the TV on and the window open. Hey, we didn't know. |
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05 Oct 01 - 03:52 PM (#565838) Subject: RE: BS: Help a Fledgling Folksinger From: sed Kyle, just have fun with it. If you like the songs and enjoy recording them there WILL be someone else who likes 'em too. That's the fun way; all the rest is beyond my comments. |
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05 Oct 01 - 03:56 PM (#565845) Subject: RE: BS: Help a Fledgling Folksinger From: Steve in Idaho I'll do it tonight when I get home - Thanks for the invite!! Steve |
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05 Oct 01 - 05:11 PM (#565904) Subject: RE: BS: Help a Fledgling Folksinger From: DonMeixner Kyle, I'm impressed with your meeting Ralph Stanley. Congrats, everyone should meet a God now and then. If only to learn that one mans God is anothers next door neighbor. Good luck on the CD. Don |
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05 Oct 01 - 05:52 PM (#565931) Subject: RE: BS: Help a Fledgling Folksinger From: sc gosh guys, i think the PRO's (BMI, ASCAP & SESAC in USA)grant performance rights but ya gotta go to the publisher, writer or rep (HFA) and for mechanical (recording) rights. To check copyright information and maybe locate the appropriate people you can check the Library of Congress online database. |
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06 Oct 01 - 04:55 PM (#566367) Subject: RE: BS: Help a Fledgling Folksinger From: GUEST,BluesMojo Hey, that link is really helpful. Thanks. |
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07 Oct 01 - 12:00 AM (#566552) Subject: RE: BS: Help a Fledgling Folksinger From: Steve in Idaho You guys sound pretty good - the sound levels need adjusting so the flute doesn't bury the rythym. And I would probably increase the strength of your vocals. Project a bit on your voice - if that makes sense. My voice tends to project too well so I have to back off a bit - Love the album cover and the name! You are on the right track :-) Steve |
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07 Oct 01 - 03:34 AM (#566643) Subject: RE: BS: Help a Fledgling Folksinger From: Liz the Squeak Er... watch out with some of the Trad stuff - it isn't as trad as you'd think... I was at a session not so long ago where someone introduced a song as trad and sang it. Much to her disgust I told her it was little more than 20 years old. I know, I wrote it! LTS |
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07 Oct 01 - 07:35 AM (#566696) Subject: RE: BS: Help a Fledgling Folksinger From: Deni Watch out with arrangements too. Some of the arrangements are works of art in their own right, and you have to go right back to the source of the song and start working on the trad version. if you merely take say, black jack davy by Steeley Span, I think you'll never separate their arrangement from it. some people change tunes, and then call it merely an arrangement. It would help if they put Trad words, tune by so & so, so we poor devils didn't have so much hunting to do. best of luck. Deni Mad Rush www.mp3.com/Mad_Rush |
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07 Oct 01 - 11:08 AM (#566759) Subject: RE: BS: Help a Fledgling Folksinger From: pavane And sometimes they claim they wrote it! Like Wild Mountain Thyme, see also Braes of Balquidder. Best to find a version which you can trace to a traditional or public domain source, i.e. a published collection. There is also at least one web site which lists songs which are Public DOmain in the USA - but be careful, UK and Europe are different. A song can be still in copyright in UK, but not in US. Of the songs you listed, I know Bob Dylan did Man of Constant Sorrow, but I think the original may have been Girl of Constant Sorrow. |
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07 Oct 01 - 05:26 PM (#566988) Subject: RE: BS: Help a Fledgling Folksinger From: BluesMojo Yeah, and I really love Bob's man of constant sorrow. I've been on Audiogalaxy (I know, I know, I know, I'm sorry) downloading as many different versions of the songs I want to cover as I can get ahold of. Actually it's fairly enriching--I'm planning to at the very least buy the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band album with that excellent Nine Pound Hammer, and I'm finding some obscure (to me) artists that do really great things with these songs. What I'm basically doing is taking apart the music for these and trying to rewrite them the way I might've written them. It's a lot of fun to play with the composition of songs like these, I've done some interesting things so far combining Nine Pound Hammer and Take This Hammer (I'm thinking of calling it General Hammer Song on the album.) I think I'm going to have to learn some more banjo very quickly for this, though. I have banjo lines in my head for a lot of the songs that I just can't play. Anyway, thanks everybody. This has been a lot of help. |
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07 Oct 01 - 05:46 PM (#566997) Subject: RE: BS: Help a Fledgling Folksinger From: Mr Red Some songs - like Wild Mountain Thyme - are not automaticlly traditional. It is the subject of much debate how much of Francis McPeak is in there. But he claimed it to be trad so it was put in the public domain by someone. BUT it is not always the case.. Lord of the Dance (lyrics) will still be in copyright in the UK because Sydney Carter, to my knowledge was still with us less than 5 years ago and hopefully still is. |