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12 Oct 01 - 11:55 PM (#571049) Subject: US Govt and People in Chaos From: GUEST,Jericho I'm fearing us a lot more than them right now. Anyone else beginning to feel that way? |
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13 Oct 01 - 01:46 AM (#571074) Subject: RE: BS: US Govt and People in Chaos From: kendall It was an attention grabber when I entered Logan airport last week and saw armed National Guardsmen. (M-16's no less) made me think of Kent State. |
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13 Oct 01 - 01:54 AM (#571076) Subject: RE: BS: US Govt and People in Chaos From: DougR Uh, Kendall, would you have felt safer had they not been there? Don't look for boogie bears folks, there are enought there without looking. Doug |
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13 Oct 01 - 03:20 AM (#571095) Subject: RE: BS: US Govt and People in Chaos From: CarolC For about as long as I can remember. |
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13 Oct 01 - 04:10 AM (#571110) Subject: RE: BS: US Govt and People in Chaos From: SeanM Among those friends of mine who oppose the 'war', there's considerable concern that the 'war' will be used as a pretext for more restrictions upon the personal liberties that we've grown used to. Given, some of what's been acted upon was needed - personally, I think that the idea of having to obtain a separate search warrant to tap each and every phone or other form of communication that a suspect uses is absurd. If you've got enough evidence to tap ONE form of communication, and they ALL are held to the same standard... But by the same token, there's always a concern that liberties will be trampled for no other reason than "it is needed", without any reason as to why. Normally, these transgressions are soon rectified - the internment of those with Japanese ancestry during WWII as an example. However, we've a government that's dangerously close to being in the pocket of corporate interests with no particular love for the liberties of the populace when it interferes with their profits. It's this kind of thing I worry about. In the beating of the drums of battle, most (if not all) other issues are lost - online privacy, interbusiness 'opt out' information sharing, that sort of thing. That's not even counting the occasional radical George Will rant about how we need to be bound and gagged with a National Guard rifle to each and every citizens' head in case we think subversive thoughts (OK, that's an exaggeration. But lately, it doesn't seem like much of one). In times of trouble, the government has unprecedented power to push through agendas that in more peaceful times would be shot down instantly. This I worry about. As should any American - our government isn't to be trusted, and just because we're blowing the bejeebers out of an 'enemy' doesn't mean that it's time to trust them. THIS coming from a liberal... sheesh... M |
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13 Oct 01 - 10:29 AM (#571188) Subject: RE: BS: US Govt and People in Chaos From: katlaughing Here's another liberal pretty much in agreement with you, Sean. |
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13 Oct 01 - 12:19 PM (#571245) Subject: RE: BS: US Govt and People in Chaos From: Ebbie And we are again using 'cluster' bombs. Which means that after this is all over, we get to keep killing children for generations after... Ebbie |
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13 Oct 01 - 01:02 PM (#571271) Subject: RE: BS: US Govt and People in Chaos From: GUEST,just a nobody Am I more frightened now than before, certainly. I have a very hard time looking at national guardsmen and thinking of Kent State. Having them augment airport security is completely different from what happened at Kent State. Personally I think it is a good thing they are there. Will it stop terrorists, some but not all. I don't think we will ever have an end of terrorism, there are always those that will figure out a way, or try often enough to get one to slip by. I hear alot of people talk about how our civil liberties can be stripped so easily. Do you think this is new? The government has the right, in a state of emergency (war), to deny certain rights. This has been a rule for a long time. It is not new, I believe it was even done during the civil war, and during the World Wars. So, why should anyone be suprised that some liberties will be affected? It is not like Bush is making crap up as he goes along.
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13 Oct 01 - 01:13 PM (#571275) Subject: RE: BS: US Govt and People in Chaos From: Don Firth When a country declares war, this tends to "justify" all sorts of restrictions the govenment places on its citizens, often supported by the citizens themselves if whipped into a patriotic frenzy. Not a good situation. (One "minor" side-issue of this is the proportioning of news coverage--not necessarily the fault of the government, more the fault of the news media--drawing attention away from various issues previously considered important, and focussing it solely on "the war;" for only one example, what have you heard lately in the news about recent congressional actions on such things as oil drilling in wildlife reserves?) There is a qualitative difference between a war and a police action. I have maintained from the very beginning that declaring war is not appropriate in this situation. Announcing a police action is. Terrorism is not an act of war, not even when the terrorists say it is. Terrorism is a criminal act, it should be regarded as such, and it should be treated as such. Calling it a "war" gives terrorism a peculiar kind of dignity that it doesn't deserve. Don Firth |